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Will RFK Jr. Endorse Trump?; Interview With Michael Cohen. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired August 23, 2024 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:01]

LANCE TROVER, FORMER BURGUM PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN SPOKESPERSON: They had some interesting insight forming on this.

If you look at the polling prior to Joe Biden dropping out of the race, Harris was taking about equal amounts of soft Democrats and soft Republicans. And when Kamala Harris came in, she brought back some of those soft Democrats from RFK.

So you can see why the Trump campaign really wants him out of the race, because the thinking is that, if he gets out of the race and endorses Donald Trump, those soft Republicans are hopefully going to come over to his side. And, obviously, in a close election like this, you desperately need every vote you can get.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: Yes, I mean, a recent poll showed his support at about 2 percent. I mean, there's some that say about 6. And you can write them off and say brain worms and dead bear carcasses and so on. But if he is drawing 2 to 5 to 6 percent, and some of these battleground states are going to come down to thousands of votes, it could make a difference.

TIM HOGAN, DEMOCRATIC CAMPAIGN CONSULTANT: I mean, every vote does matter, right?

I would say we also know. We have been polling, right, the head-to- head and then including RFK. So we kind of have a sense of where we are with or without him in the race. Now, if he tells his supporters to go support Donald Trump, maybe they go that way.

But I actually think this is a larger liability for the Trump campaign, because it kicks the weirdness factor up to 11 with them. I mean, the question kind of is, what is he going to get out of this? Is he going to be at HHS, the guy who says Wi-Fi causes leaky brain or vaccines cause autism or there's no link between HIV and AIDS?

The question is, what does he get? And I think it's a big question, too, as to whether or not he would even appear on stage with Donald Trump or whether or not they endorse and just kind of back away from it quietly.

ACOSTA: Yes, Lance, and there's also the question of -- there was some reporting out there that RFK Jr. was shopping this endorsement around in exchange for some kind of Cabinet position or agency position.

HOGAN: Yes.

ACOSTA: Presidential candidates should not be offering that sort of quid pro quo, should they?

TROVER: Well, what they should and should not be doing, I -- that's a -- we can debate that all day long. But I think it obviously does happen, particularly when it comes down to these kinds of endorsements and stuff. There's a lot of wheeling and dealing in the background.

Again, this goes down to a very close election in some of these states. And, again, if Kamala Harris took back some of those Democrats, Donald Trump desperately needs to pull back some of those Republicans. And so if he can get 1 or 2 percent or whatever they're talking about, I mean, it's a major boost to him at this point in the campaign, for sure.

ACOSTA: Yes, I mean, Tim, this apparently came up with the Harris campaign. RFK Jr. or his associates went to the Harris campaign. And it sounds as though they almost laughed this idea out of the room.

Do you have to be a little careful with that, though, considering how close this race is?

HOGAN: Yes. I mean, I don't know that -- yes, they essentially denied the meeting, right?

ACOSTA: Yes. Yes.

HOGAN: There is -- you have to be a little careful with it. I don't think you ever want to insult voters, right, who are with RFK and might go to Harris or might go to Trump.

But I do think the reality is that this is just going to be a liability for the Trump campaign in the end. You have got enough conspiracy theories from Trump on the big lie and January 6 and a bunch of other things. And you're just going to add to that now adding RFK Jr. to his side. So, yes, you have to be careful you don't insult voters.

But, again, I don't think it's a big boost for him.

ACOSTA: All right, let's listen to a bit of what Trump had to say about some of this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (R) AND CURRENT U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have no idea if he's going to endorse me. I know he's got a news conference. We happen to be in the same state, Arizona. We will be in the same state, but in quite different parts of the state.

But it's possible we will be meeting tomorrow and we will be discussing it. (END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Yes, bottom line, Lance, I mean, you work for Doug Burgum's campaign. I mean, is this is this an endorsement you would take, that you would advise Governor Burgum to take if he were the nominee?

TROVER: Again, I think when you're in an election this close that we all see is going to be this close -- I disagree a little bit with Tim here. I'm not sure it's that bad.

I mean, he does have a following. I'm speaking about RFK out there. He does have folks who are with him. And if he's directing his voters where to go and they have nowhere else to go and they're going to Donald Trump, I don't think it's the worst thing in the world.

I get what he's saying. But again, that is almost being somewhat insulting to these voters just because they may be anti-vaxxers or the like. So look, Donald Trump is somebody who talks to anybody and everybody, as we all know.

And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. And I think if they believe, and, clearly the campaign does believe, is more beneficial than not to have him on board, sure, why not?

ACOSTA: All right, Lance Trover and Tim Hogan, thanks, guys, very much, appreciate it. Get home safe, Tim.

HOGAN: Thank you.

ACOSTA: All right, interesting week here in Chicago. It's been a lot of fun. Thanks so much.

A memorable moment last night here in Chicago, Congressman Ruben Gallego, a combat veteran, bringing a group of fellow veterans on stage with him. We will show some of that in just a few moments.

[11:35:00]

Stay with us. More from the DNC coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): Democracy knows no party.

(CHEERING)

KINZINGER: It's a -- it's a living breathing ideal that defines us as a nation. It's the bedrock that separates us from tyranny. And when that foundation is fractured, we must all stand together united to strengthen it.

(CHEERING)

(APPLAUSE) (END VIDEO CLIP)

[11:40:00]

ACOSTA: That is former GOP Congressman Adam Kinzinger speaking at the Democratic National Convention last night.

He's one of several Republicans voicing their support for the Harris/Walz ticket. Kinzinger urged his party to summon up the courage and vote against Donald Trump for the sake of democracy.

And CNN's Jeff Zeleny joins us now, along with national political reporter for Axios and CNN political analyst Alex Thompson.

Alex, welcome to CNN. Good to see you here on set.

Let me go to you first. The Harris campaign has been courting moderate Republicans like Adam Kinzinger all week long. Let's listen to what Kamala Harris said about that last night, talk about it on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (D) AND U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I know there are people of various political views watching tonight. And I want you to know, I promise to be a president for all Americans.

(CHEERING)

(APPLAUSE)

HARRIS: You can always trust me to put country above party and self, to hold sacred America's fundamental principles from the rule of law, to free and fair elections, to the peaceful transfer of power.

(CHEERING)

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Alex, those words, "You can always trust me," really stood out to me in that comment there.

It's almost as though this week, yes, they got the base fired up, they're revved up. It's a unified party now in many ways. But it was this appeal to the middle. It was this trying to reach over to the center-right. All week long, it was a recurring theme.

ALEX THOMPSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, we don't just have a new candidate. We also have a new message.

ACOSTA: Yes.

THOMPSON: And that was, Joe Biden was very focused on democracy, on January 6, about Trump being an existential threat to the republic, to democracy. Kamala Harris has basically pivoted and said, Trump is basically a racist buffoon, and I am here to -- as Oprah put it, it's common sense oh, nonsense.

And she very much presented herself as a pragmatic dealmaker who is going to be a faithful steward to the country.

ACOSTA: Yes, Jeff, I mean, you had an amazing vantage point all week long just off the stage with your producer, Bonnie (ph).

And, I mean, that must have been something to watch. But I mean, what did you make of the way the Democrats pulled this off this week. I mean, they it was almost as if they got Kamala Harris on stage as quickly as possible last night to get out of here to try to stick this landing.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: I mean, quite literally, our vantage point was good from the podium looking out on the sea of delegates.

And what we saw was unity. What we saw was really the tapestry of the Democratic Party that is a far bigger tent than perhaps we thought. But from the speakers of AOC and Bernie Sanders, but also J.B. Pritzker, and just a variety of views, but then the Republicans on stage.

But I think that Vice President Harris, you could not have asked for a stronger convention for her. I think, a month ago, she was just hoping to secure the nomination. But -- so we do know that, a strong speech, a very strong convention.

What we don't know is how this is playing in America, how this is going to settle in, and sort of what -- she goes from here. But at this point, basically a month and a couple days in, she is in a far, far, far stronger position than Democrats have been this entire year.

ACOSTA: Yes, I heard that a lot, that this has exceeded their expectations so far.

But it all comes down to what we see in the polls, maybe if she got a bounce out of this, or if we're locked in this kind of 50/50 race.

And, guys, I do want to -- I mean, somebody else who was watching last night was Donald Trump. He tweeted. And let's show this to our viewers, posted more than 38 times, we counted, 38 times during Harris' remarks. Look at this, writing "Is she talking about me? was one of the posts, and "Too many thank you's," and "Where's Hunter?"

I think there was another one where he said that Tim Walz is an assistant coach, not a real coach. I mean, anybody who watches football knows coach is coach, right? Like, you don't mess with assistant coaches. They can make or break you. What did you think about Trump's fixation on this speech last night?

THOMPSON: Well, I mean, it very much shows that this has really gotten under his skin. And Trump advisers also acknowledge privately that he has been a little bit off his game.

And to his -- it's in some ways a little bit understandable, because you know, in his mind, he's like, why did I debate Joe Biden? He was the one that said, any time, anywhere, anyplace, he debates him. And they spent over a year developing this campaign to take on Joe Biden.

Now he has an opponent that is 20 years younger, that has shifted the message, that is basically presenting herself as not an incumbent, but the candidate of change, a way to turn the page. And you can tell that he is incredibly frustrated by it.

ACOSTA: Yes, Jeff, I mean, what stood out to you as your top moments from the convention?

I mean, we talked about this reach to the middle. I think there was also this shift to the message of freedom from democracy, something that Joe Biden liked to talk a lot about.

I mean, Kamala Harris did talk about that last night, but freedom was definitely the buzzword during this week's convention.

ZELENY: It definitely was.

But I think, overall, I mean, since this was the first convention since 2016, to me, the difference is in how the 2016 campaign still hangs over all of this. And those were my top moments. Michelle Obama saying, "Do something."

[11:45:02]

ZELENY: I'm Michelle Obama. I'm having a call for action.

Hillary Clinton: "We can't let up."

So I think throughout this, it was the lessons learned, no time for complacency. This is different than 2016. Of course, what has happened since then? One -- four years of the Trump administration. The Harris message of joy, this is something that -- this joyful warrior was something that was really a through line for everything.

But I think perhaps more than anything, as we looked out onto the hall and as we see voters across the country, this could be the year of the woman voter. We have talked about that a lot. It certainly was in '92, but this is a pivotal women voting year. And members of Congress, elected officials up and down the ballot, this is a time when women are coming alive here.

You didn't hear Vice President Harris talking about the historymaking aspect of it, but sure everyone else did.

ACOSTA: Yes.

Well, and there was that iconic image of one of her grandnieces, I think, watching all of this unfold last night. It was just such a remarkable image captured by "The New York Times." Alex, some final thoughts from you on this race. I sort of -- Jeff,

you were referring back to the convention hall. This is a very CNN moment here. We're always here when they're tearing stuff down...

(LAUGHTER)

ACOSTA: ... at the end of these things.

ZELENY: Exactly. Right. First to come, last to leave.

ACOSTA: And here we are. That's it, exactly.

But, Alex, I mean, what stands out to you as we wrap this thing up?

THOMPSON: The last thing I will say is the race for the Democratic nomination, the next one, is already under way.

ACOSTA: Yes.

THOMPSON: I think that this week, all the -- Governor Shapiro, Governor Whitmer, Governor Pritzker, they were all making the rounds at Nevada, New Hampshire, all these delegations.

ACOSTA: I did see that, yes.

THOMPSON: Yes, it's already under way. So, regardless of what happens in November, be on the lookout for that.

ZELENY: But the question is, it's incumbent on, if she wins in November, we could be 16 years away from any of them having their shot.

So that's why these are so interesting.

THOMPSON: A hundred percent.

ACOSTA: Yes.

And, guys, also, a quick thought on RFK Jr. I mean, he went from, OK, this is somebody who could make a real difference in this race because he was polling at 10 percent, maybe plus in some of these states. It's not that anymore.

Does that make a big difference if he comes out, as we expect, and get behind Donald Trump today?

ZELENY: Look, I think, on the margins, it certainly can make a difference. I have met many RFK Jr. supporters in Wisconsin and Michigan, so where they go certainly is interesting. There are still other third-party options, but there is an overlying effect with the Trump campaign, so I think it helps Donald Trump without a doubt.

Is it that many voters? Perhaps not, but on the margins, it could matter.

ACOSTA: And you know, I mean, covering the Hillary Clinton campaign, they will tell you Jill Stein.

ZELENY: For sure.

ACOSTA: Places like Wisconsin. These margins could be so, so tight, that it could absolutely make a difference.

Alex.

(CROSSTALK)

THOMPSON: Yes. And, arguably, Democrats did too good of a job of tearing RFK down. They really drained his resources with all these ballot lawsuits and challenging his ballot access. He clearly saw no path forward.

ACOSTA: Yes. He had something else to do with it, too, with the brain worms and the bear carcass, but fair enough, fair enough.

Alex and Jeff, great convention, guys. Thanks so much. Really appreciate it. Great coverage here.

Still ahead, a one-on-one with a once Trump fixer, now Trump critic Michael Cohen, what he thought of Kamala Harris' historic speech.

That's next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER ATTORNEY/FIXER FOR DONALD TRUMP: What I care about is seeing a big, gigantic blue wave come November, and not just of Kamala Harris and Tim Walz, but being the entire downballot, because, right now -- and I say this in the end of my book "Revenge" -- Trumpism is fascism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[11:52:41]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: This week's DNC featured many voices that would have been unimaginable in years past, Republicans, former Trump advisers, former members of Congress, and a recurring chorus of I'm choosing country over party rang through this arena.

Among those voices, former Trump fixer and personal attorney Michael Cohen. So what is the opposite of a fall from grace? Michael Cohen tells me that his turnaround over the past eight years has him experiencing just that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: But what does it say that you are here? You used to work for Donald Trump. Now you're at the DNC. You're trying to beat Trump.

COHEN: Well, it's also not my first convention that I have been at. It's not my first Democratic Convention that I have ever been at.

ACOSTA: OK.

COHEN: Remember, this is a massive mistake that is regularly made by people. I have been a Democrat virtually my entire life.

ACOSTA: There must be something gratifying about being here, having these folks come up to you, want the selfie, because of what you're saying, the fact that you're speaking out against Trump.

COHEN: You mean truth to power?

ACOSTA: Yes.

COHEN: Absolutely, that the man is unfit for the presidency of the United States.

2016 through 2020 was a very tumultuous, chaotic time in America's history. The question is, do we want to go back there? Or as people start chanting when Kamala is talking, we're not going back. Why would you want to live in chaos? Why do you want to live with the tumult that this man brings?

I know the man. And I'm telling you, if he, God forbid a million times, wins the election right now in 2024, there will never be another election ever again.

ACOSTA: What is going to go through Donald Trump's mind, though, when he sees you, when he sees former administration people here?

COHEN: Truth, I don't really care what he's thinking. This isn't about him.

We tried to make everything about him, his feelings. And so I don't care about his feelings. What I care about is seeing a big, gigantic blue wave come November, and not just of Kamala Harris and Tim Walz, but being the entire downballot. Trumpism is fascism.

And we must eradicate it from our body politic. Otherwise, we're going to lose our democratic republic.

ACOSTA: And I did want to ask you. I mean, you know Trump very well. One day this week, he says, oh, I like the Obamas. The next day, he's trashing them. I mean, what does that tell you?

Before the RNC, they were saying, this is a different kind of Trump.

COHEN: Right.

[11:55:00]

ACOSTA: And then we saw that wasn't the case.

COHEN: Right.

He's saying it because he knows that President Obama and first lady Michelle Obama, former first lady Michelle Obama, was going to be here, and they were going to be speaking about him. So, he thinks, by saying nice things about him, that it's going to change.

That works if you're Donald Trump. Vladimir Putin says Donald Trump is smart. All of a sudden, it's a love affair. Kim Jong-un says nice things about Donald. All of a sudden, it's a love affair. Xi Jinping says it.

All you need to do is flatter the guy, and next thing you know, you're best friends. There's love letters going around. This is not, again, normal behavior. It's not something America should want for a president.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: All right, everybody, thanks so much for joining me this week from the Democratic National Convention in Chicago. My hat's off to the entire team here. Thanks for taking care of us.

We're back in Washington next week, where the race for the White House is now officially in full swing.

"INSIDE POLITICS WITH DANA BASH" is up next.

Have a great weekend.