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IDF: Hostage Abducted By Hamas Is Rescued From Gaza Tunnel; Trump Says He's Reached An Agreement To Debate Harris On September 10; Harris Campaign Backing Democrats' Lawsuit Against Georgia Voting Rules; Zelenskyy Vows Response to Latest Russian Attack; Macron: Pavel Durov's Arrest Was "In No Way" Political. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired August 27, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:29]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: It is 8:00 p.m. in London, 3:00 p.m. in Atlanta, 10:00 p.m. here in Tel Aviv. I'm Jim Sciutto. Thanks so much for joining me today on CNN NEWSROOM.

And let's get right to the news.

A rare moment of good news in this conflict. After being held hostage for 326 days in Gaza, Kaid Farhan al-Qadi is back in Israel surrounded by loved ones. His family's seen here running to meet him at the hospital when the news broke.

The Hostages Families Forum called his safe return nothing short of a miracle. Al-Qadi is the only -- is only the eighth Israeli to be rescued alive in an Israeli military operation in now nearly 11 months of war, and the first Arab-Israeli. It's the first time the IDF have recovered a living hostage from one of the tunnels inside Gaza.

An Israeli military official told CNN that Israeli forces found al- Qadi alone. One hundred eight hostages living and dead are still being held there. Hamas holding most of them.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond joins me now.

And, Jeremy, what more do we know about the circumstances of his rescue?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Jim, I'm told that Israeli Special Forces were combing through a network of tunnels in southern Gaza when they came across this man, the 52-year-old hostage Kaid Farhan Al-Qadi. He was alone when they found him, according to an Israeli military official, without his captors who may have potentially fled Israeli Special Forces approach.

What we do know, though, is that this is the first time that Israeli forces have actually rescued an Israeli hostage from tunnels underneath Gaza. In the other three instances in which seven other hostages were rescued from Gaza by Israeli forces, they were all being held above ground. And so that is a quite significant development here. We know that once he was taken out of Gaza, we've seen videos since released by the Israeli military, he's put in an armored personnel carrier and then taken to a hospital which whisked him out of Gaza and to a hospital in southern Israel. At that Soroka Medical Center, al- Qadi was greeted by several of his brothers who said that they had started to lose hope that their brother would actually return from Gaza alive. He was held, keep in mind, for 236 days of captivity.

And this morning, his family getting a call that he was on his way to Soroka Medical Center, that he was alive and well, where doctors say that he was in good medical condition, despite the fact that he has clearly lost a lot of weight in his nearly 11 months of captivity.

Now, of course, we saw that he spoke with the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu from his hospital room. He thanked the Israeli prime minister for the efforts that were made to rescue him from Gaza. But he also reminded him of the other hostages who are still in Gaza, still being held today, more than 100 hostages, 30 of whom are believed to be dead by the Israeli military.

And we know that ultimately, it is not going to be Israeli military operations that gets all of those hostages out. That was the message of the Hostages Family Forum tonight. They say that it is a deal, the deal that is being negotiated actively in Cairo and in Doha, Qatar, that will get the remaining hostages out, one that the Israeli prime minister still needs to agree to -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: That smile and that salute to those Israeli soldiers certainly powerful.

Jeremy Diamond, thanks so much.

Well, nearly 11 months into this war, and al-Qadi's family and friends received the news they'd long been hoping for. One of those friends is Mazen Abu Siam, who joins me now.

Mazen, thanks so much for taking the time tonight.

MAZEN ABU SIAM, FRIEND OF RESCUED HOSTAGE, KAID FARHAN AL-QADI: Thank you. And hello, everyone.

I am right now in front of the emergency room of Soroka Hospital in the south where Farhan Al-Qadi is hospitalized since the 2:00 local time of Israel, and there is a big joy here in Rahat villages and all the country of Israel to receive him back alive and safe and healthy.

And I visited hour -- one hour ago and spoke with him, little about his condition and feelings. And it's a good one.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, tell me, tell me what he said to you? How was he feeling?

[15:05:00]

How was his health? ABU SIAM: He's confused right now and he lost some weight after 326 days in captivity of Hamas. He was kidnapped from kibbutz Magen and was Negev, and seventh was another six Arab citizens, two of them were killed and two were released in the first negotiation according to Hamas, and two remain in captivity, Yousef Zyadna and his son Hamza.

And today at 2:00, we received the information by the WhatsApp media, and I called the friend of -- close friend of Farhan and he told me that the IDF forces called them and told them that Farhan is in his way from Gaza to Soroka Hospital, and I came to participate with a family here.

There's a big celebration and big joy, hundreds of friends and relatives came to the hospital. And in this late hour, there's 100 in the hospital, they are looking for the chance to visit him.

SCIUTTO: Tell us what the moment was like when you and his family heard that news. It must have been such a good surprise.

ABU SIAM: It was unexpected. It's unbelievable news. I did several calls to understand if the news is right or not correct. I came quickly to Beersheba Hospital and I went to the military helicopter to see Farhan is coming to the hospital, walking, not in a hospital bed and I am fortunately, it take me five minutes to visit him inside.

I don't have any detail. They didn't tell me any details about the rescue, but they told me that he was disconnected from the -- his circumstances about the news. I asked if he saw me in (INAUDIBLE) from the captivity about they told me, that he was disconnected from the Israeli news.

SCIUTTO: Well, Mazen, we're very happy for your friend and for his family. And, of course, for Kaid himself. If you could -- if you could send them that message, tell us that we're happy that he's safe.

ABU SIAM: Thank you. Thank you very much.

SCIUTTO: Thanks so much to Mazen Abu Siam for sharing that story.

Joining me now for more on the rescue operation itself, is IDF spokesperson, Lieutenant Colonel Nadav Shoshani.

Lieutenant Colonel, thanks for taking the time tonight.

LT. COL. NADAV SHOSHANI, IDF INTERNATIONAL SPOKESPERSON: Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: This was a remarkable operation, of course, with a very happy results for the hostage and for his family. I know that many details you cannot share because of the sensitivity and concern for the safety of other hostages but can you share more about exactly how Israeli forces came upon al-Qadi?

SHOSHANI: Well, first of all, every day that a hostage comes back from Gaza from the hands of the terror organization back to Israel, back to his family, is a happy day in Israel. Personally, to see this 52-year-old father of 11 is very happy day for us and reminds us why we're operating -- one of the reasons we're operating in Gaza.

And this operation is a complex operation of many different units operating in southern Gaza, in an underground complex, underground tunnels, working together special unit Navy SEALs, ISA, different units within the Army operating here, based on intelligence telling us there might be hostages in this area, there might be weaponry, munitions booby traps, terrorists.

So this was a planned operation, a complex one in this tunnel and a very happy result of finding -- of finding one of our hostages and bringing home, finding them alive finding him relatively in okay condition where he's functioning. He can speak and we were able to bring him home safely, bring them to a hospital for a checkup, and have him reunite with his family.

SCIUTTO: Yeah. I'm sure it was a happy moment for all involved. We are told that he was found alone. Do you believe that his captors had abandoned him?

SHOSHANI: Well, that's -- that's one of the options that's being looked at, but we are also looking into more information in that area and we're trying to keep our information to ourselves so we can keep operating and as you said before, for the safety of other hostages, where we have a goal to bring home are still hundred and eight hostages in Gaza, in different parts of Gaza, waiting to come home. It's been 326 days and we are operating to bring them home and to find where they are and bring them safely home.

SCIUTTO: Of course, I know the focus in a moment like this will be on his health, reunions with his family, but I wonder, has he been able to provide any intelligence, useful intelligence about other hostages that might have been held with him.

SHOSHANI: Well, as we do with every hostage that comes back from Gaza, we first make sure his health is okay, his condition is okay. He gets to talk to his family and, of course, we take any information we have and use it for operational purposes to save lives, to save lives of Israelis from terror attacks in Gaza, and to save the lives of the hostages that are still alive in Gaza waiting for us. This is part of the process we're doing and we're also still operating in the moment in different parts of Gaza, looking for hostages, operating to find them to fight the terrorists, guarding them and to bring them home. Eleven months into this war, I wonder, does the IDF have a better understanding of how Hamas is using the tunnels, both for its own operations and also for holding hostages?

Well, we've been -- we've been it's been almost 11 months in this conflict where we've been fighting Hamas above the ground and under the ground. And a lot of lessons learned and operational level through time, learning what's happening, learning their methods, learning their ways, a very complex system of tunnels all through Gaza.

But we've been able to systematically fight them in the tunnels, to dismantle the tunnels some of them if needed to explode them, and we've been working on this step-by-step, area by area with many, many lessons learned to protect ourselves, to prevent harm to a hostages, to prevent harm to ourselves and to fight Hamas very successfully moving from tunnel to tunnel, making sure we take this system of them which -- which is an amazing -- this is a very sad thing. This is an amazing system that the needs of the people in Gaza and the supply coming into Gaza in the years before this war, before Hamas did October 7 massacre could have built an incredible city above ground.

What they did, they built an incredible city underground for terror purposes. Very sad for the people of Gaza, but this is something we've been learning in this conflict while we go and fight Hamas, and we have a lot of lessons learned and tweaks we've done and changes we've carried out in our operational systems that we've been able to operate successfully against Hamas and those tunnels.

SCIUTTO: And I'm certain it's dangerous for IDF soldiers as they -- as they operate inside those tunnels.

But before we go just on another topic, because our understanding is that the IDF's humanitarian zone in Gaza continues to shrink. A CNN analysis found that roughly 10 percent of Gaza is now deemed safe by the IDF and yesterday, the U.N. had to suspend aid deliveries to Gaza because of security risks after the latest evacuation order.

I wonder, in your view, is the Israel and is the IDF doing enough to get further humanitarian aid into Gaza?

SHOSHANI: Well, I'll tell you this. We are putting no limit on aid coming into Gaza. At the moment, there's aid waiting to be picked up as you touched upon, waiting to be picked up by the humanitarian organization and to be distributed into Gaza. There is a problem of distribution in Gaza. There's no problem of aid coming into Gaza.

The problem is distribution and the problem is because Hamas has been systematically abusing the aid coming into Gaza, systematically looting the trucks, coming in, and shooting at the crossings of aid, shooting at the trucks coming in and looting the aid coming in and preventing it from getting directly to the people of Gaza. And we have expanded in recent weeks, we have been expanding the humanitarian areas, every time expanding more and more and more.

Do you know what happened? Hamas would abuse those humanitarian areas. They would shoot rockets from them towards hundreds of thousands of Israelis, they would, we found six bodies in what used to be the humanitarian area just last week and Hamas has been a systematically abusing this.

But we on our side, we have been doing everything we can, including major efforts to bring in as much aid as needed into Gaza. We were talking about polio vaccines going in for millions of people, just this week.

[15:15:05]

And we are in daily contact with international organizations with a U.N. COGAT, is speaking to them on a daily basic -- daily basis, making sure they could they get everything they need to operate, everything they need to conduct their operations. And at the moment as we're speaking, there's aid waiting to be picked

up for the people of Gaza, and there's more aid going into Gaza every single day. This has been our policy since the beginning of the war. We have made sure there's aid going into Gaza. We have invested millions of shekels, millions of dollars to fix the crossings into Gaza that Hamas blew up on October 7 (ph).

We've been investing a lot of time and efforts to fix water pipes. They took to turn those water pipes into rockets shooting at Israeli. So this is a war that we are conducted with Hamas to make the humanitarian conditions in Gaza better and Hamas is fighting us to prevent that because they gain good publicity or bad publicity for Israel for that.

SCIUTTO: Well, Lieutenant Colonel Nadav Shoshani, thanks so much for joining us tonight and congratulations to the units involved in this rescue operation.

SHOSHANI: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, turning now to Russia's continuing war on Ukraine. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is vowing to respond following a Russian missile and drone attack, an enormous one, that killed at least five people, wounded more than ten.

Zelenskyy warned that, quote, crimes against humanity cannot go on punished. This latest aerial attack comes one day after what Ukraine is calling Russia's largest aerial assault since the Russian invasion two-and-a-half years ago.

CNN's Ivana Kottasova joins me now from the Ukrainian capital Kyiv.

Tell us about the extent of this latest Russian attack. I know that from outside, it will seem like a daily, daily log of missile strikes and drone strikes, but he's last few days have been just deadly.

Ivana, can you hear me?

IVANA KOTTASOVA, CNN SENIOR WRITER: No, very faintly. Can you make it louder?

SCIUTTO: All right. We'll get the audio fixed with her and then come back to her later for report from Kyiv.

Still to come this hour, after the widespread disinformation an outright lies over the results of the 2020 election. We're going to take a look at what voting companies and election officials across the U.S. are doing to ready themselves for this November.

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SCIUTTO: Is the debate over the debates finally settled? Former President Donald Trump says it is. He announced moments ago on Truth Social that the two campaigns and ABC have come to an agreement to take the stage two weeks from today on September 10 as planned. Though as you see, Trump had plenty of complaints about ABC and the Harris campaign as he is want to do.

Trump says the rules will be the same as the June CNN debate in which microphones were muted in-between answers the Harris campaign had one of the mics open for the entire 90 minutes. CNN is reaching out to Harris's team for comment.

For her part, she and her running mate Tim Walz kick off a bus tour in Georgia tomorrow, but before votes are even cast, are counted. In that key swing state, a fight is already brewing over presidential election results there. Democrats have sued to block a set of controversial new election rules they say could unleash chaos in November. Donald Trump has praised those rules. It is Republicans who championed them.

Joining me now, CNN national politics writer, Fredreka Schouten.

So, Fredreka, first explain for us exactly what these rules mean, who put them into place, and why they're causing so much concern, right?

FREDREKA SCHOUTEN, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS WRITER: Right. Well, the Georgia state election board now has five members, three of whom are Republicans, who seem pretty closely aligned to Donald Trump, as you mentioned, he has praise the rules and them.

And the two rules that are a great cause for concern have to do with certifying the elections. It allows -- the new rules allow local election boards to conduct a reasonable inquiry before certifying the results and it also permits members of county election boards to investigate ballot counts and examine election related documentation. And there is a real fear that this will lead to delays in certification.

I mean, we have seen since the 2020 election sort of hot spots around the country where folks who are concerned about the outcome of the 2020 election and believe fervently that flood contributed to it, though there's no evidence of that, sort of put, gum up the works of certification. But now, we're seeing a state election board in a battleground state put in place rules that critics say really could inject chaos into the process in November.

SCIUTTO: Yeah. I mean, listen, Trump was indicted for attempting to overturn the results in Georgia. So this is not an unfounded concern here. I wonder how exactly a local election official might take advantage of these rules.

Could they just say, even if they don't have proof of fraud, if they don't like the results of a particular district's count and say, I don't like these results, I'm not going to certify? I mean, is that -- is that the point here?

SCHOUTEN: Well, potentially, I mean, if they had enough votes to do it in a county. I mean, one of the things I think that we need to remember about presidential elections is that there are firm deadline set out in state and federal law for certification. So imagine if you have a situation in which someone is raising questions, raising doubts, and somehow those votes get set aside, disenfranchising the people in that community and potentially affecting the outcome of the election.

And again, Georgia is a battleground. Joe Biden won the state by fewer than 12,000 votes in 2020. It's -- it's in contention again, I mean, you see the Vice President Harris and her running mate, Tim Walter, are starting a bus tour there soon. Donald Trump is competing for those votes.

It's going to be close in that state. And I think that there was just -- just this fear that something will happen and that these rules have opened the door to a county election officials who maybe don't like the results, to find a way to mock-up the works.

SCIUTTO: Listen, and if folks are forgotten, Trump was caught on a phone call, instructing election officials to find him enough votes to overturn the results of the election of that that state?

Fredreka Schouten, thanks so much for joining us now.

Now, to new CNN reporting that shows the extent to which election officials and companies have had to overhaul their approach to November's election following the avalanche of disinformation over the outcome over the 2020 race.

Our Marshall Cohen is out today with this: Scarred by 2020 smears, voting companies and election officials brace for November.

Marshall joins us now.

Marshall, you spoken to about a dozen officials involved in running this year's elections? Tell us exactly what their concerns are because as you know, and folks may remember, there was quite a public disinformation campaign casting doubt on the results of the election, which actually lead to losses in lawsuits for those who were responsible for those claims.

[15:25:09]

MARSHALL COHEN, CNN REPORTER: Yeah, Jim, you're absolutely right. After 2020, it will never be the same for the election, workers and the voting technology companies that do the hard work of administering our elections. They used to be anonymous, unknown, kind of like public utilities, but because of former President Donald Trump and his allies in right-wing media and his advisers like Rudy Giuliani and others.

A lot of these companies are household names like Dominion Voting systems and some of the election officials like Brad Raffensperger in Georgia that nobody knew about these folks. They were just doing their job. Now, they're famous or infamous in the right-wing and there's a lot of disinformation.

So they're trying to have a better outcome this time around. They're being proactive, Jim, and part of that is fighting disinformation. You mentioned those losses in court for some of the people they sued. Dominion and other companies like Smartmatic filed massive defamation cases.

They could get a big payday from those cases. They got almost $800 million last year from Fox. But it's not just about the money. It's also a deterrence.

They are hoping that folks that live last time might think twice about lying this time because of those massive settlements.

Additionally, Jim, another company called ES&S, which is actually bigger than Dominion, they forced all of its employees to undergo social media scrubbing. The company wanted to make sure that they didn't have any posts that were overtly political or endorsing any political parties or candidates that could possibly be weaponized after the election by Internet sleuths and other people who want to kick up dirt and cause trouble.

And that same company, you might find this interesting, Jim, ES&S during Thanksgiving last year, they actually had training sessions for their employees for what to say when your family members and friends inundate you with false claims and conspiracies about the 2020 election. So disinformation on the macro level trickling down all the way to friends and family.

SCIUTTO: Listen and right from the top, right? It is the former president and current candidate for president who was the number one source of those lies. He continues to spread them as he runs for president again.

Marshall Cohen, thanks so much.

Well, still ahead, new information into the arrest and charges against the messaging app Telegram's founder Pavel Durov. He was arrested in France. Durov calls the arrest an attack on free speech.

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SCIUTTO: Welcome back.

Reporting -- returning now to our coverage of Ukraine, Ukrainian President Zelenskyy is vowing to respond after a devastating Russian missile and drone attack, including on many civilian targets.

We've now reconnected with CNN's Ivana Kottasova in Kyiv.

Ivana, tell us just how far and wide this Russian attack impacted Ukraine.

KOTTASOVA: Yes, Jim, there was another wave of Russian attacks this morning and altogether, 15 people across Ukraine has been killed yesterday and today.

And it's now becoming clear that the main target of these attacks was the Ukraine power network. And while the government here is not telling us that exact scope of the damage, it is clear that millions of people across the country are left without power. We can see it here in Kyiv, Jim, here in the Ukrainian capital, its nighttime now, and entire residential neighborhoods are plunged into darkness.

And President Zelenskyy met with reporters today. And he told us it has been very difficult two days for Ukraine and he made this plea again to Western allies of Ukraine to lift this restriction on using Western weapons inside Russia, he said, Ukraine cannot defend itself effectively against attacks like this one yesterday and today unless it is able to use Western weapons against targets in Russia, Jim.

SCIUTTO: You recently went to a town very close to the front lines, speaking to Ukrainians there. I wonder what you saw there and what you heard.

KOTTASOVA: Yes. We went to Pokrovsk and I can tell you, Jim, the situation is really dire. There is a real sense of dread in Pokrovsk and the local authorities there are urging people to leave now before it becomes too dangerous. We spent two days in the city center and I can tell you, you can really hear for the fighting, getting closer and closer, it is clear that the Ukrainians are completely outgunned and outmanned in this area.

They're struggling to defend Pokrovsk and that kind of begs the question, why did Ukraine launched this incursion into Russia when its struggling to defend it its own territory. So I asked Ukrainian commander in chief, Oleksandr Syrskyi, this question and here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OLEKSANDR SYRSKYI, UKRAINIAN COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF (through translator): One of the tasks to the offensive on the Kursk direction and was precisely to divert significant enemy forces from other directions primarily from the Pokrovsk and Kurakhove directions. Of course, the enemy understands this. So it continues to focus its main efforts on the Pokrovsk direction where its most capable units are concentrated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOTTASOVA: Syrskyi also told us that about 30,000 Russian troops were indeed redeployed from other areas into Kursk and President Zelenskyy told us that another reason and for this Kursk incursion was to show the Western allies that Ukraine is indeed able to defend itself and can win this war -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Ivana Kottasova, thanks so much.

Well, Russia's foreign minister says relations between Moscow and Paris are, quote, worse than ever. This after French authorities detained the Russian-born billionaire founder of Telegram, a messaging app widely used in Russia. Supporters of the CEO say he's a political prisoner and that his arrest is an attack on free speech.

The Paris public prosecutor says Telegram's Pavel Durov is facing 12 separate charges as part of a broad investigation into criminal activity on the app. Alex Marquardt explains.

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ALEXANDER MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): He's been called the Mark Zuckerberg of Russia.

Tech billionaire Pavel Durov, the creator of the globally popular messaging app Telegram --

PAVEL DUROV, TECH BILLIONAIRE: Twelve billion messages delivered daily.

MARQUARDT: -- now in custody in France after French police arrested him at a Paris airport. French authorities say that Durov's arrest is part of an investigation of charges that Telegram was allegedly complicit and aiding money laundering, drug trafficking, and distributing child pornography.

French prosecutors also say that Durov refused to comply with demands to help intercept potentially elicit communications. In a statement, the company said, Durov has nothing to hide. It is absurd to claim that a platform or its owner are responsible for abuse of that platform.

DUROV: I truly believe that privacy of our users and their trust to us and our responsibility for them is the most important thing in our business.

MARQUARDT: Durov was flying to Paris from Azerbaijan, where Russian President Vladimir Putin also visited last week. The Kremlin has denied that Putin and Durov met.

Durov had also created the Russian app VKontakte, known as Russia's Facebook. He fled the country in 2014 after refusing to turn over user data from the app to the Russian government.

Russia tried to ban Telegram in 2018, but lifted the ban in 2020.

With 900 million users worldwide, Telegram is used by everyday people, governments, and companies to send official messages, but the apps encryption also makes it popular among criminals and terrorists. In France, it was found on the phones of the terrorists who attacked the Bataclan concert hall in Paris.

DUROV: They're also using iPhones and Android phones and microchips. It's kind of misleading to say that we're responsible or any other tech company is responsible for that.

MARQUARDT: Durov's arrest has revived questions about the responsibilities of social media companies to moderate their content and assist law enforcement, versus protecting their users' privacy and freedom of speech.

French President Emmanuel Macron said in a statement on social media, France is deeply committed to freedom of expression and communication, and that the arrest is in no way a political decision.

Alex Marquardt, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: All right. Let's talk more about Telegram, the significance of this arrest with Nick Reiners. He's a senior analyst for GEO technology -- geo-technology at the Eurasia Group.

So, Nick, good to have you.

I want to begin on what's different about Telegram because, yes, it is true that when you have attacks like, for instance, the Bataclan attack in Paris, not only did the extreme issues Telegram, they used other devices, but the difference is I understand what Telegram is it does not cooperate with law enforcement in the event of investigations. Is that your view? Is that what distinguishes it?

NICK REINERS, SENIOR ANALYST GEO-TECHNOLOGY, EURASIA GROUP: Yes, that's correct, Jim. And with other platforms, even the ones that have end-to-end encryption, like WhatsApp or iMessage that they comply with law enforcement investigations whereas Telegram is headquartered in Dubai. It's out of the reach of law enforcement and adopted a deliberately uncooperative attitude. So, that has allowed it to become a haven for all kinds of extremist and illegal activity.

SCIUTTO: Can you detail some of that extremist and illegal activities?

REINERS: Well, the charges in France relate to the exchange of child sexual abuse material and money laundering. I believe in other forms of financial crime and so, there's that. As your piece mentioned, Telegram is also used to organize the Paris attacks, also in Brussels in 2016. Recently, telegram was used to ferment the riots in the U.K., even the January 6 insurrection was in part coordinated on Telegram.

SCIUTTO: It's particularly popular in Russia. And I wonder, has it been particularly central to Russia during the war on Ukraine?

[15:40:04]

And is that part perhaps of prosecutors' interest?

REINERS: I think the prosecution relates to the crimes I mentioned before, but you're absolutely right that it's a very central part of Russian society, particularly for the young and majority of the young, use it. It's been helped by the fact that other social media platforms like Instagram, have been blocked there. So they use of force to tune and so to turn to the Telegram.

It's also one of the ways that Russians and especially Ukrainians gain information about the war since -- since TV is purely propaganda. Of course, there's lots of propaganda on Telegram as well, but it is generally possible to find out some more truthful information on Telegram compared to elsewhere. SCIUTTO: We're seeing folks like Elon Musk criticized this arrest as purely an attack on free speech. And I wonder, is there merit to their argument and is there a way for a prosecutors just to focus on the alleged criminal activity on the app while letting the app continue for other uses?

REINERS: Yeah. I think this free speech framing is bogus to be frank. It's very tempting to frame this in terms of free speech and many have done so. But the fact is that child sexual abuse is not free speech. And this is not French thing. You know, in the U.S., you obviously have a First Amendment. You had Section 230.

But this does not give platforms a blanket right to ignore federal criminal law. They can still be liable if they don't cooperate with law enforcement investigation.

So this kind of framing is disingenuous. And actually, I was about to say, it helps Russian propaganda, it helps with -- it helps to spread this idea that the West is no different from Russia when actually in Russia, all these platforms are banned, as I mentioned, and you can be sent to -- sent to jail for calling the war a war.

So I think -- yeah, this free speech argument is not to be taken seriously.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, that's a good point.

Nick Reiners, thanks so much for joining.

We are going to take a short break. For our international viewers, "LIVING GOLF" is next. And if you're streaming us on Max, we'll be back with more news right away.

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