Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Jack Smith Files a Retooled Indictment Vs. Trump in the January 6th Insurrection; Ukrainian President Tackles Four-Point Plan to End the War against Russia; Russia Angry at Telegram CEO's Arrest. Georgia Democrats Suing to Block New Election Rules; Venezuelan Opposition Calls for Worldwide Protests Against Fraudulent Election Results; Chris Hemsworth made a Surprise Appearance in one of Ed Sheeran's Concerts. Aired 3-4a ET

Aired August 28, 2024 - 03:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[03:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, CNN CORRESPONDENT AND ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to the viewers joining us from the United States, Canada and all around the world. I'm Christina Macfarlane.

MAX FOSTER, CNN LONDON CORRESPONDENT AND ANCHOR: I'm Max Foster. Just ahead, Donald Trump hit with a revamped indictment as the Department of Justice tries to work around the controversial immunity ruling by the Supreme Court.

MACFARLANE: Ahead, an Israeli operation in the West Bank leaves multiple Palestinians dead. What the IDF says they were targeting.

FOSTER: And following a highly contested election, Venezuelan opposition supporters escaped persecution at home to build a new life abroad.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Live from London, this is "CNN Newsroom" with Max Foster and Christina Macfarlane.

MACFARLANE: And we begin with that new indictment against Donald Trump for his involvement in the January 6th insurrection.

FOSTER: He's not off the hook for allegedly attempting to overturn the 2020 election. The Justice Department's special counsel, Jack Smith, betting the new shorter indictment filed on Tuesday will hold up to the Supreme Court's divisive ruling on presidential immunity last month, which granted Trump's sweeping protections.

MACFARLANE: The revised document still charges Trump with the same four felony counts that he faced before, which include conspiracy to defraud the United States and obstruction. But the new version, meant to withstand Supreme Court scrutiny, argues that Trump's acts on January 6th were unofficial and can absolutely be prosecuted. Trump says the new indictment is an act of desperation and election interference by a deranged special counsel. FOSTER: He's also fundraising off what he calls the hoax and witch

hunt. Here's CNN's Katelyn Polantz.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SR. CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: The Justice Department has rewritten the charges against Donald Trump related to the 2020 election, focusing around his role as a candidate as he tried to spread lies of election fraud. So this is the case that's existed for a year in federal court in Washington, D.C., and was on hold as the Supreme Court looked at questions of presidential immunity. They said that Trump couldn't be prosecuted or taken to trial on things he was doing while he was president, officially after the election, while he was still serving, even on January 6th.

And so the Justice Department has now responded by going to the federal grand jury in Washington and cutting down the charges against him. They've cut out things like what Donald Trump was saying to the Justice Department and officials there about spreading allegations of election fraud across the country.

And instead, they are making the focus be about Donald Trump and what he was told by his campaign and what he was telling private advisors of his to do, to try and spread this idea of election fraud, especially in battleground states, and to block Congress from certifying his loss of the election.

One of the things, though, that is very important going forward in the coming days we're going to see a lot of discussion about this, is the role of Mike Pence as the vice president. Pence is still in this charging document against Donald Trump, the rewritten, pared down version.

And Pence is very likely to be a witness both in the coming weeks, in upcoming proceedings that have yet to be scheduled, and then, if the Justice Department is allowed to, bring him in as a trial witness before a jury.

That's because the Justice Department now says Mike Pence was not always just in the executive branch under the Constitution. He was working for the Congress or he was presiding over Congress as president of the Senate on January 6th. And that's how Trump was trying to pressure him to block the election result.

Katelyn Polantz, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Returning Legal Affairs commentator Areva Martin is with us live from Los Angeles. Thank you so much for joining us. How would you describe this new indictment then? Is it watered down? Is it simplified?

AREVA MARTIN, LAWYER AND LEGAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: Well, Max, what it is, is it's an attempt by the Department of Justice to meet the standards that have been laid out by the Supreme Court in that controversial and shocking ruling the court ruled that Donald Trump could not be prosecuted for conduct within his abuse of constitutional authority.

So that left the Department of Justice with a dilemma, trying to move forward with the charges, while at the same time, not charging him for things that would be considered in his exclusive constitutional authority, knowing that those types of charges would be stricken by the trial court.

[03:05:06]

So now we have this superseding indictment, this slimmed down indictment, this effort by the Department of Justice to reframe the conduct to put it in the context of Donald Trump acting as candidate Trump, engaging with private individuals in this conspiracy to overturn the election of Joe Biden. No longer Donald Trump and the actions that he was involved in or engaging with the Department of Justice or the interim Attorney General, Jeffrey Clark.

So it still remains to be seen, though, if this new indictment, smaller, 39 pages, compared to the 45 or so pages will meet muster and will survive at the trial court level.

MACFARLANE: Areva, in your legal opinion though, does this weaken the case against Trump? You know, the attempt here to really act within the margins of what the Supreme Court have laid out in July, does it weaken that case?

MARTIN: Well, it's definitely going to be a Herculean task, assuming this case does get passed, motions for dismissal and ends up in the hands of a jury, because essentially, a lot of the narrative, a lot of the storytelling, a lot of what happened -- up to that period won't be admissible as evidence because this shocking ruling by the Supreme Court essentially prevents the Department of Justice from making any references to conduct, conversations, engagement with Jeffrey Clark, who was a member of the Department of Justice at the time.

If you look at the original indictment, there are about 30 references to the Department of Justice in this superseding indictment, there are zero references to the Department of Justice. So clearly, the Justice Department, Jack Smith, has a very difficult task moving forward, trying to -- this case alive, given this community shield.

FOSTER: Would Trump still be able to use presidential immunity on the basis that he was president?

MARTIN: Absolutely, Max. I think we're going to see this case litigated further, and no matter what determination this trial court makes, we should expect to see this case re-litigated all the way back to the Supreme Court and those six very conservative justices that made this initial determination about presidential immunity, no indication that they would rule any differently. So it's not clear that Jack Smith will ever achieve the desired outcome in terms of holding Donald Trump accountable for the actions of January 6th.

MACFARLANE: We heard from Katelyn Polantz there in that report the importance that Mike Pence, former vice president, might play in all of this. The indictment attempts to reframe Trump's relationship with Mike Pence, emphasizing that he was acting as Trump's running mate. What do you make of that and whether or not we will likely see Pence called as a witness?

MARTIN: I think the Justice Department absolutely will want to call Mike Pence again, Mike Pence in his capacity as the president over the Senate, as a member of the congressional branch, as opposed to his role as vice president and a part of the executive branch of government.

Again, big fight over, you know, what was Mike Pence doing, what capacity was he acting in when he was engaging with Donald Trump over not certifying the vote on January 16th, electoral college votes.

Not clear again, that Jack Smith is going to be able to convince a trial court, an appellate court and particularly the Supreme Court that Mike Pence was acting in his capacity as a member of Congress versus as in his capacity as a member of Trump's cabinet.

FOSTER: If Trump wins, he'll be able to get this thrown out, won't he? In the election, it puts a huge amount of pressure on him to, you know, obviously win the election because this now adds this context, this legal context.

MARTIN: Yeah, one thing that's clear is that it's not likely that there will be any trial on the merits of this case before the November election. And if Trump does win, as you said, Max, chances are this case goes away, as will any of the federal cases that have been brought against Donald Trump.

He's already made it clear that he is going to know, be a dictator on day one and that includes dictating what the Department of Justice can and cannot do and which cases will survive and which cases will not. So it's very clear that if he does win the federal cases are likely to go away. Now we still have those state charges, particularly in the state of Georgia, that are pending against him. We have the state case in New York.

Those cases in theory cannot be dismissed by the President of the United States, but we can expect that Donald Trump would put tremendous pressure even on those state prosecutors if he is elected president.

FOSTER: Areva Martin as ever. Thank you for analysis

MARTIN: Thank you.

[03:10:05]

FOSTER: Now Kamala Harris and Tim Walz have agreed to their first formal interview as a presidential ticket and it's happening exclusively on CNN.

MACFARLANE: The vice president and Minnesota governor will sit down with CNN Thursday during their bus tour through the battleground state of Georgia. Harris has been criticized for going more than a month as Democrats' standard bearer without doing a news conference or in-depth interview.

FOSTER: CNN's chief political correspondent, Dana Bash, will be asking the questions. You can watch their conversation right here on CNN this Thursday at 9pm Eastern. That's 9am in Beijing and 5am in Abu Dhabi.

MACFARLANE: Now at least nine Palestinians have been killed in the West Bank after the Israeli military launched raids and airstrikes overnight. That's according to the Palestinian Health Ministry.

FOSTER: Israeli security forces say they were carrying out a counter- terrorism operation in two refugee camps to quote, "thwart Islamic- Iranian terrorist infrastructure."

CNN's Paula Hancocks, live for us in Abu Dhabi this hour. Paula.

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Max, the information we have at this point from the Israeli side is that hundreds of Israeli military are involved in this. Now we understand at this point that four battalions of the border police are involved, including as well as one from the undercover troops and there's also the military, there's also Shin Betz, the intelligence unit, so it is a significant operation that appears to be underway at this point, at a number of different areas, refugee camps, as you say, in the northern part of the West Bank.

Now, what we've heard from the Palestinian Red Crescent Society is that nine have been confirmed to have been killed at this point. We understand from the Ministry of Health as well that they were either killed from air strikes by the air or also strikes on the ground.

Now, images that have been coming through from that area show Israeli military bulldozers clearing roads in the area and we understand that it is ongoing at this point. So this really is a very significant operation it appears.

We have in recent months been seeing these incursions as they call them by the Israeli military into certain areas of the West Bank to target certain elements. They say that there are Iranian-backed elements, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, within the West Bank and then they withdraw. But this does appear to be something new.

Now I want to read something from the Israeli Foreign Minister. He did tweet saying that what they are doing is trying to thwart the Islamic Iranian terrorist infrastructure. But something interesting he also said was, quote, "we must address this threat just like we're handling terror infrastructure in Gaza including temporary evacuation of Palestinian residents and any step necessary. This is a war like any other and we must win it."

Now that quote alone does suggest that this is just the start potentially of something bigger talking about evacuating Palestinians from different areas in the West Bank. We have heard from Islamic Jihad, the Palestinian militant group, condemning what is happening, calling it an open and undeclared war. Also saying that their fighters have managed to shoot down an Israeli drone near Jenin. We've asked the military about this and saying that their fighters are currently engaged in trying to target the Israeli military itself, saying that they are using, quote, "heavy volleys of direct bullets."

So this certainly seems to be an ongoing operation in a number of different areas. Certainly the deaths that we have heard about have been in Janine and in two towns, cities in the northern part of the West Bank. We are still gathering more information. Max, Christina.

FOSTER: Paula Hancocks, thank you. Paula.

MACFARLANE: All right. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says an incursion into Russia's Kursk region is just the beginning of a much larger plan to end the war and he's going to need help to make it happen. President Zelenskyy discussed his plans in a news conference on Tuesday, adding he'll be traveling to the United Nations General Assembly in the coming weeks to speak with U.S. President Joe Biden, who he says is crucial to his multi-step plan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): One part of the plan that is already performed is Kursk region. The second part is Ukraine's strategic place in the world's security infrastructure. The third part is a pressure package, a powerful package to force Russia to end the war diplomatically. The fourth part is economic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[03:14:58]

MACFARLANE: Ukraine's army chief confirmed a key objective of the Kursk incursion was drawing Russian troops away from vulnerable cities, adding that around 30,000 Russian forces have been redeployed to Kursk so far. CNN is unable to independently verify that number.

Salma is joining us with the latest. Salma, this is significant because since this incursion happened, began towards the start of August, we have been questioning what the bigger picture is, the bigger plan is here for Ukraine. What is it that President Zelenskyy is putting forward as a plan? What more details do we know about that?

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I would call this an outline, not a plan at best. It's very, very broad, but it's important to know the context in which this is occurring, right? So this happened Tuesday afternoon, the second day into Ukraine, just receiving this massive aerial assault from Russia.

And President Zelenskyy wants to portray he's still on top. He still has the upper hand. He's still riding that momentum from Kursk. So very much in that context, he says I will probably be meeting with President Biden next week around the U.N. General Assembly, and I have this four-step plan. And the first part of that victory plan is invading Kursk, and I've

already done that. So I'm already on the way. He also detailed two types of weapons that Ukraine is developing according to him, including long-range drones and ballistic missiles. Now, I don't know the viability of these weapons. I think it's unlikely we'd see them on the battlefield. But yet again, President Zelenskyy there projecting strength.

And even poking fun at President Putin at one point, saying, look, he can't even defend Kursk. He's going after a city that no one knows, a reference to Pokrovsk. But in saying that, he's also acknowledging that the battlefield picture is mixed. There are parts of that battlefield where Ukrainians are outmanned, outgunned, are on the back foot. Russian troops are advancing.

So in that context, he's also yet again appealing for Western help and asking Western nations to loosen the restrictions on the use of those weapons. So a lot there, but fundamentally you're looking at a President Zelenskyy who's trying to hold on to the narrative, hold on to the momentum from Kursk and say, we got this, even as these Russian assaults come in.

FOSTER: He went into Kursk, didn't he, without formal permission, as it were, from the West. He's obviously pushing to get into the airspace now and further into Russia. Do you think there's any chance that he might take a punt and go for it and hope that he won't get a backlash from the West?

ABDELAZIZ: I think we know that there's a lot that happens behind closed doors. He has been in lockstep with his partners throughout the United States, and NATO has to play this very fine balancing act of, of course, not aggravating Putin further, not inflaming tensions, not worsening this conflict, but also, of course, giving Zelenskyy what he needs in order to win.

Look, there's a lot that can happen here, but what we do know is this is a sliding scale throughout this conflict. What NATO has said no to has sometimes turned into a yes or a maybe. So he might get a yellow light, a green light. So there's a lot that needs to be worked out. And if there's this meeting next month with President Biden, you can expect that Biden will want to give him something. Right.

FOSTER: OK, Salma, thank you so much.

Another delay for the latest SpaceX launch. We'll explain why the Polaris Dawn mission won't get off the ground until Friday at the earliest now. That's next on "CNN Newsroom."

MACFARLANE: Plus, Moscow is trying to calm fears over the security of Telegram after the apps' founder was arrested in France. We'll have the details on what the Kremlin is saying after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[03:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACFARLANE: Welcome back. The wait goes on as SpaceX says they are delaying the launch of their Polaris Dawn mission for at least the next two days because of potential bad weather at splashdown sites off the Florida coast. The mission will carry a four-person team to the highest altitude of any crewed spaceflight since the Apollo program ended more than 50 years ago.

FOSTER: Two crew members will attempt the first ever spacewalk by private citizens. A helium leak would postpone the initial launch.

A late summer heat wave is affecting the U.S. Midwest with millions under heat alerts. Temperatures are expected to reach triple digits, prompting some schools to close early. The National Weather Service says the region may be near the hottest it's been all summer.

MACFARLANE: Meantime, a cold front is bringing relief from the heat across the Great Lakes, causing severe storms and a sharp drop in temperatures.

FOSTER: Extreme weather is causing deadly floods in two of Africa's largest nations. In Nigeria, at least 170 people have been affected have been killed and more than 200,000 displaced after weeks of torrential rain and flooding.

MACFARLANE: And in war-torn Sudan, the death toll from flash floods and a burst dam have skyrocketed to more than 130. The U.N. warns that number could rise significantly as more victims are discovered. The waters destroyed thousands of homes in several provinces displacing at least 30,000 families.

FOSTER: These satellite images show the Arbaat Dam before it collapsed and after, that dam supplied fresh water to Port Sudan. And now that it's empty, the United Nations says the humanitarian situation in that city will only get worse.

MACFARLANE: The Kremlin is trying to calm fears that the arrest of telegram founder Pavel Durov in France could upend the messaging platform. The Kremlin spokesperson says calls to users to delete sensitive Telegram messages are baseless.

FOSTER: French officials say Durov's arrest is part of a broad criminal investigation involving serious abuses of the out, but many in Russia say it's an attack against them.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen has the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Russia's state-controlled TV up in arms, labeling the arrest of Telegram founder Pavel Durov as a direct attack against Moscow.

NIKOLAI VAVILOV, RUSSIAN TV SHOW GUEST (through translator): I don't think it was an arrest. It was kidnapping, basically a hostage-taking. Direct political and economic aggression against Russia. PLEITGEN (voice-over): Pavel Durov remains in French custody, this

video posted on Telegram purporting to show Durov and some associates the caption saying they were having breakfast in Azerbaijan before flying to Paris.

[03:25:01]

French prosecutors say Durov is the subject of a cyber-crimes investigation and alleging Telegram was complicit in, among other things, illicit transactions, spreading child pornography and fraud by failing to moderate the content shared on the platform.

Telegram says Durov has nothing to hide, but Russia's foreign minister now insinuating that the arrest may be politically motivated even though France's president denied politics were involved.

SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): Apparently someone is hoping to somehow gain access to encryption codes. Now this has already been proven by the actions of the French that Telegram is a truly reliable and popular network.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): The 39-year-old Durov, often referred to as the Russian Mark Zuckerberg, is one of the world's most well-known social media moguls. Cultivating a playboy-like image, often posting shirtless pictures of himself on social media, and even claiming he's fathered more than a hundred children, he's the co-founder not just of Telegram, used by hundreds of millions worldwide, but also a Russian platform similar to Facebook called the VKontakte.

Durov rejects any regulation and moderation on his platforms, as he told CNN in an interview in 2015.

UNKNOWN: And are you aware that ISIS extremists, terrorists, also use Telegram?

PAVE DUROV, CEO, TELEGRAM: I heard of that, yes. We are not happy about that, but I guess. These kind of people use lots of encrypted technology.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): While there have been questions about possible links between Durov and the Kremlin, Vladimir Putin's spokesman denied the two recently met when both were in Azerbaijan. Still, pro-Kremlin propagandists are voicing their support for Durov, like this rapper who goes by the name Shaman.

SHAMAN, RUSSIAN SINGER (through translator): My dear, it is only in Russia that you can breathe freely and easily. Come back home. Here you are always remembered, waited for and loved.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Berlin.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACFARLANE: Meanwhile, Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg claims the Biden administration pressured the social media company to censor some COVID-19 related content during the pandemic. He made the claim in a letter written to the House Judiciary Committee.

FOSTER: In the letter, he says quote, "In 2021, senior officials from the Biden administration repeatedly pressured our teams for months to censor certain COVID-19 content, including humor and satire, and expressed a lot of frustration with our teams when we didn't agree."

MACFARLANE: The White House has responded saying at the time the administration was merely urging the company to be responsible. In their own statement, they said, quote, "we believe tech companies should take into account the effects their actions have on the American people while making independent choices about the information they present."

Now Democrats in the U.S. state of Georgia are going to courts. Why they want to block new voting rules put in place by the Republican-led Election Commission? Just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[03:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, CNN CORRESPONDENT AND ANCHOR: Democrats in the U.S. state of Georgia are suing to block controversial new election rules which they warn could lead to chaos over the -- after the November vote. CNN's Brian Todd has the details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Georgia's secretary of state exasperated over the latest election controversy there.

BRAD RAFFENSPERGER (R), GEORGIA SECRETARY OF STATE: The state election board is a mess.

TODD (voice-over): Brad Raffensperger, a Republican, is frustrated with members of his own party who are on the Georgia state election board. Three unelected Republicans on that board recently approved measures that would give local officials the power to delay the certification of a county's election results this November.

Now top Democrats, with the backing of Kamala Harris' presidential campaign, are suing the Georgia State Election Board, trying to block those new rules.

REP. LUCY MCBATH (D-GA): With passing this new rule, they are creating barriers to counting votes and certifying the elections. So Donald Trump can once again attempt to throw our country into chaos.

TODD (voice-over): Former President Trump recently praised those three board members, Janelle King, Rick Jeffries, and Dr. Janice Johnston.

DONALD TRUMP (R), U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Three people are all pit bulls fighting for honesty, transparency, and victory. They're fighting. TODD (voice-over): In an interview with CNN, one of those board

members, Janelle King, denied working on behalf of Trump.

JANELLE KING, GEORGIA REPUBLICAN ELECTION BOARD MEMBER: I'm appreciative of the president's support. I will forever be appreciative of any support but I'm not working on behalf of anybody.

TODD (voice-over): But Democrats and watchdog groups argue that those Republican election board members don't have the power to give county officials the power to contest votes.

JAY YOUNG, SR. DIRECTOR, VOTING AND DEMOCRACY, COMMON CAUSE: There is not any discretion that is allowed for under Georgia's election law that would permit these unelected officials to inject themselves in between the voters and the certified results.

TODD (voice-over): Who does have that power?

MICHAEL MOORE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY, MIDDLE DISTRICT OF GEORGIA: The power vest was someone who's aggrieved in the election. So, for instance, a candidate. A candidate can say, you know, I think that I have, the votes were not counted properly.

TODD (voice-over): This is just the latest election controversy to flare up in Georgia since the 2020 campaign. Donald Trump lost the state that year by just over 10,000 votes, and Georgia was at the center of Trump's attempts to overturn the election.

TRUMP: All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more that we have.

TODD (voice-over): No evidence was ever found to support Trump's claims of voter fraud in Georgia.

TODD: Now, Georgia Democrats and voting rights advocates are calling on the state's Republican Governor, Brian Kemp, to investigate those Republicans on the state election board. And one Democratic state senator has filed an ethics complaint against those Republicans for pushing to change the rules so close to the election. Governor Kemp has issued a statement saying he's taking the matter up with the state's attorney general.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MAX FOSTER, CNN LONDON CORRESPONDENT AND ANCHOR: Alright. Donald Trump and Georgia's governor appear to be putting their animosity aside. A source tells CNN Brian Kemp will help raise money for Trump's presidential campaign at an event in Atlanta on Thursday. Former U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is the headliner there.

MACFARLANE: Until recently, Trump had criticized Kemp for refusing to support his claim that the 2020 election was stolen. Kemp says he will work to put Georgia back in the Republican column in the November election. Well meanwhile, Trump has suggested President Joe Biden and Vice

President Kamala Harris are partly responsible for the attempt on his life last month.

FOSTER: His allegation came during a wide-ranging interview with U.S. talk show host Dr. Phil.

[03:35:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: When this happened, people would ask, whose fault is it? I think to a certain extent it's Biden's fault and Harris' fault. And I'm the opponent. Look, they were weaponizing government against me. They brought in the whole DOJ to try and get me. They weren't too interested in my health and safety.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Well, Trump went on to call Harris a Marxist and the worst vice president, and he said mail-in voting shouldn't be allowed, even though his own campaign and the Republican National Committee are urging supporters to vote by mail.

MACFARLANE: In Venezuela, the opposition is calling for worldwide rallies in the coming hours to press for recognition of their victory in a disputed presidential election which they claim was stolen by President Nicolas Maduro.

FOSTER: As CNN's Stefano Pozzebon reports, many protesters have also fled the country amid fears of a government crackdown.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEFANO POZZEBON, JOURNALIST (voice-over): A month ago, we met Victor Medina campaigning for freedom in Venezuela.

He was urging people to vote for opposition candidate Edmundo Gonzalez, who was challenging authoritarian president Nicolas Maduro at the polls. But since then, a lot has changed.

Venezuelan electoral authorities declaring Maduro the winner of that election without showing any proof, and the government detaining more than 2,000 people in a ferocious crackdown on dissent.

Medina is now a migrant in Colombia.

I never wanted to leave this way, he tells me, fleeing my homeland as if I was a criminal. His only crime, he says, was serving as an electoral witness for Gonzalez's campaign.

While Maduro claims victory, the opposition has published more than 20,000 voting tallies that show that Gonzalez won the election, collected by volunteers like Medina, who took his certificate all the way to Bogota. POZZEBON: Do you know that somebody from the opposition told me that

these documents have become like kryptonite in Venezuela because the government is hunting down everybody who was involved with the collection of the tallies.

POZZEBON (voice-over): Electoral experts told CNN the results published by the opposition match mathematically and statistically and several countries including the United States have already recognized Gonzalez as the legitimate winner.

Medina is not alone. Other residents have left Venezuela in recent weeks in much more delicate circumstances.

POZZEBON: Why does this interview need to remain anonymous?

ANONYMOUS VENEZUELAN DISSIDENT (through translator): After they put out an arrest order for me and I left, the police took my wife and my daughter to make me surrender. We are safe now, but my family remains in Venezuela and I'm worried for them.

POZZEBON (voice-over): CNN spoke with several opposition activists who are now in Colombia, Ecuador and the United States, fearing retaliation against their loved ones, most asked for their identity to remain hidden.

While Venezuelan authorities did not respond to CNN's questions surrounding these cases. Before the election, one poll suggested up to a third of Venezuelans would consider migrating if Maduro stayed in power, adding further pressure to governments already struggling to contain the migrant flows to the U.S. southern border.

Secretary for Homeland Security Alejandro Mayorkas was in Colombia on Monday pledging resources to address migration.

ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS, U.S. SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Regional challenges require regional solutions.

POZZEBON (voice-over): Medina would rather be part of his solution, but his reading is clear. I thought this was the year we would welcome our loved ones back to Venezuela. I feel instead we will meet together abroad, he says.

Stefano Pozzebon, CNN, Bogota.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Now one of the most prominent evangelical families in the U.S. is divided over the presidential race. A look at how the family of the late Reverend Billy Graham is at odds over support of Donald Trump or Kamala Harris.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[03:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) MACFARLANE: Welcome back. Former U.S. President Donald Trump has long had widespread support among evangelical voters. But a group calling itself Evangelicals for Harris now includes the granddaughter of the late Reverend Billy Graham, the patriarch of one of the most influential evangelical families in the U.S. Graham's son, Franklin, recently pushed back on Evangelicals for Harris.

FOSTER: He posted this message saying the group developed a political ad using his father's image and that Graham, Billy Graham, appreciated Trump's quote, "conservative values and policies." In 2019, Franklin Graham tweeted that his father knew Trump and quote, "believed in him and voted for him." But that's not what he said in 2016, just a couple of weeks before the election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANKLIN GRAHAM, SON OF REV. BILLY GRAHAM: Again, my father's not involved in this election. He hasn't supported or come out to endorse anybody. At 98, as I told you earlier, he's just happy to wake up in the morning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: Well, our Randi Kaye spoke to some of the Graham family to get to the bottom of the disagreement.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What is your relationship with your uncle Franklin Graham?

JERUSHAH DUFORD, GRANDDAUGHTER OF LATE EVANGELICAL LEADER BILLY GRAHAM: About an awkward hug at Thanksgiving. That's about it.

KAYE (voice-over): An awkward hug because Jerushah Duford has made it clear she's skeptical of her uncle Franklin Graham's claim that her grandfather, the late evangelist Billy Graham, voted for Donald Trump in 2016.

KAYE: Your uncle Franklin Graham has said that your grandfather Billy Graham voted for Donald Trump.

DUFORD: I think back to that election, and I know the state that my grandfather was in, in his health. And to believe that he voted for anybody with sound mind just seems unlikely. I believe it was absolutely politically motivated to come out after my grandfather died and announced to the world that he had voted for Donald Trump.

KAYE: Have you spoken to him after he made that claim?

DUFORD: I don't even have like his number in my phone.

KAYE (voice-over): Jerushah's brother, Aram Tavijan, doesn't believe his uncle's claims either. He called it blatant baloney when Franklin Graham said it in 2019. In response to his uncle's assertion, Aram posted this very sarcastic

tweet. I'll never forget that day in 2016 when my grandfather, Billy Graham, shrugged off the symptoms of Parkinson's and hydrocephalus, got up out of bed for the first time in a year, drove down to the polling station and cast his vote. What a glorious memory.

One person commented asking Franklin Graham, is your nephew calling you a liar? Aram now regrets his public comments and declined our request for an on-camera interview. But he told me by phone, I find it hard to believe my grandfather at that point in his life wasn't voting for anybody. Knowing my grandfather's state at the time, I'm not even totally sure he knew the election was coming up.

In the past, Franklin Graham has shown support for Trump.

GRAHAM: I believe Donald Trump is a good man, and I believe he's president of the United States for a reason. I think God put him there.

[03:45:04]

KAYE (voice-over): He even spoke this year at the Republican National Convention.

GRAHAM: As long as I've known President Trump, I've found him to be a man of his word. Things that he said he'll do, he did.

KAYE (voice-over): Billy Graham died in 2018. Jerushah told me her grandfather exhibited love, patience, and kindness, things she says Donald Trump does not. And she doesn't think her grandfather ever would have supported someone like that.

DUFORD: There's a quote from my grandfather back in the early 80s. He said that I don't want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except simply to manipulate it.

KAYE: What do you think he meant by that quote?

DUFORD: That it's easy to use faith to manipulate politics to get what we want.

KAYE (voice-over): Still, Jerushah is leaning on her faith as a guide and a reason to get involved. Even as an evangelical Christian, she wants Vice President Kamala Harris to become the next president. She recorded this video for the group Evangelicals for Harris.

DUFORD: Voting Kamala for me is so much greater than policies. It's a vote against another four years of faith leaders justifying the actions of a man who destroys the message Jesus came to spread. And that is why I get involved in politics.

KAYE (voice-over): Jerushah sees more hope in the Harris campaign.

DUFORD: Hope that our country can go back to being a welcoming country. People that have freedoms to live how they want, to love who they want is not something that I feel like we've had the freedom to do. I don't believe that Trump's presidency created that.

KAYE (voice-over): She doesn't believe Trump's words and actions line up with the views of Jesus and what the Bible teaches.

DUFORD: I think Trump's presidency maybe gave people permission to be hateful and it emboldened them and I think that's what really scared me.

KAYE: We reached out to Franklin Graham for comment, asking not only about the split in the family, but also whether or not he stands by his claim that his father, Billy Graham, voted for Donald Trump back in 2016. We did get a response from him, and here's what he said.

He wrote, my father and I had many conversations about Donald Trump. He knew President Trump for a number of years and appreciated many of his policies, his leadership abilities, and his vision for the future of this country. Even though I have family that may disagree with me and my father, I still love them and he did as well.

Now perhaps you'll notice in that statement he did not address our very specific question about whether or not he stood by that claim that his father voted for Donald Trump in 2016. He certainly did not address it in that statement. We also reached out to the Trump campaign for comment and the campaign spokesperson directed us to the statement from Franklin Graham. Nothing beyond that.

Randi Kaye, CNN, Palm Beach County, Florida.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACFARLANE: The star of "Thor" showed off his new talent at a concert in Romania recently. Anyone see this? Chris Hemsworth on stage with Ed Sheeran. More on that after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[03:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACFARLANE: Brothers Travis and Jason Kelsey have agreed to a massive podcast deal with Amazon's Wondery Studio just in time for the start of a new NFL season.

FOSTER: Sounds like a winning podcast. Sources tell CNN the NFL stars signed a contract worth around $100 million, would you believe. In return, Wondery gets ad sales and distribution rights to their popular podcast, "New Heights with Jason and Travis Kelsey."

MACFARLANE: The brothers draw a big audience with their lighthearted football talk. It's actually really good. I don't know if you've seen it, Max, but they can literally talk on anything and it's entertaining. Travis is, of course, Taylor Swift's boyfriend and also has drawn new fans to the game. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRAVIS KELCE, HOST, "NEW HEIGHTS WITH JASON AND TRAVIS KELCE": The Steelers versus Vikings in the first ever best NFL team name bracket final. Steelers 39.4 percent of the votes and your Minnesota Vikings with the best team name in the entire NFL Wins it on a 60 percent slide Just not even close not even close and the Minnesota Vikings. Damn was nobody on Twitter.

JASON KELCE, HOST, "NEW HEIGHTS WITH JASON AND TRAVIS KELCE": It's just another beat for the U.S. steel market.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: Tune in for that. Now, a U.S. federal judge has ordered infamous farmer bro Martin Shkreli to turn over all copies of what was once meant to be a one-of-a-kind Wu-Tang Clan rap album to his attorneys. The order also bars Shkreli from selling or distributing data files or any other contents of the double CD.

FOSTER: The new ruling is part of an ongoing lawsuit that a group of NFT collectors filed against Shkreli. They brought the unique album from Shkreli for almost $5 million, but they claim he kept copies and intends to release them to the public.

MACFARLANE: Wu-Tang Clan created only one copy of "Once Upon a Time in Shaolin" as a piece of art. Shkreli reportedly paid $2 million for it in 2015. He sold it recently to help pay some of the fines and penalties tied to his conviction for securities fraud.

FOSTER: And Chris Hemsworth has taken on a different role on the huge stage.

MACFARLANE: The star of "Thor" surprised fans at an Ed Sheeran concert in Bucharest, Romania recently was unveiled, I think, as the new talent. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED SHEERAN, SINGER: He's been on stage playing with us for the whole time, playing inside. Will you make some noise for Chris Hemsworth?

MACFARLANE (voice-over): Thor actor Chris Hemsworth surprised fans by taking on a whole new role as a drummer for Grammy winner Ed Sheeran.

SHEERAN: Make some noise for Chris! Give him a big round of applause, guys!

We're here in Bucharest. Basically what's happening is Chris emailed me last December saying he's doing a documentary on cognitive health and the benefits of learning instruments. He came to visit me and he has learned drums. Cindy's coming on stage in front of 70,000.

CHRIS HEMSWORTH, ACTOR: Yeah, so many things about it. A lot. It'd be nice to put this one to bed.

[03:55:05]

SHEERAN: And he said, can I? Can I learn an instrument to play for your show and I said yes. He started learning this instrument two months ago and he's been on stage playing with us for the whole time playing inside. Will you make some noise for Chris Hemsworth?

Give him a big round of applause, guys.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Screaming voices.

MACFARLANE: Well, understandably so. I could watch Chris Hemsworth all day long. No problem with that. And honestly, is there nothing this guy can't do?

FOSTER: No, he's pretty cool. And he does the documentaries as well, doesn't he? He's got lots of interests.

MACFARLANE: I know. I love that. Interesting that was in Romania, though. I suppose he must have been filming there or something.

FOSTER: And Ed Sheeran turned up to the On Taylor Swift stage. It's a bit of a thing going on.

MACFARLANE: And it does seem to be. And we saw Roger Federer appearing on stage with Coldplay last year. It's definitely a thing, isn't there, with the whole celebrity endorsement.

FOSTER: Should we get on?

MACFARLANE: I mean, I'm available to play, actually, I can play the flute. I'm not sure that would make it into an episode.

FOSTER: We could do. Oasis might invite us on. Can you do drums or anything?

MACFARLANE: I'll do anything.

FOSTER: Triangle.

MACFARLANE: Triangle, perfect.

FOSTER: We're available.

MACFARLANE: Thank you for joining us. I'm Christina Macfarlane, he's Max Foster.

FOSTER: I'm Max Foster.

MACFARLANE: We'll be back for the next hour after this quick break. It's amazing how we mess that up every time.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)