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Harris & Walz Sit for Exclusive Joint Interview with CNN; 16 Killed in West Bank by Israeli Military Operation; Polio Vaccinations, Humanitarian Pauses to Begin in Gaza Sunday; Ukrainian Star Pilot Killed in Country's First Loss of F-16 Jet. Aired 12-12:45a ET

Aired August 30, 2024 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello. I'm John Vause, live in Atlanta.

[00:00:31]

Ahead here on CNN NEWSROOM -

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: What I do believe the American people deserve, which is a new way forward, and turn the page on the last decade.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Heavy on hype, light on new revelations as Kamala Harris sits down for her first interview since officially rising to the top of the Democrat ticket.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RIK PEEPERKORN, WHO SENIOR OFFICIAL FOR THE PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES: The current outbreak in Gaza is a stark reminder of how quickly infectious diseases can reemerge where health systems are compromised.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Israel and Hamas agree to a pause in the killing in Gaza to allow life-saving polio immunizations for hundreds of thousands of children.

And crewless, adrift, on fire and carrying a million barrels of oil. The world's biggest ever oil spill, just waiting to happen in the Red Sea.

ANNOUNCER: Live from Atlanta, this is CNN NEWSROOM with John Vause.

VAUSE: For anyone expecting detailed policy announcements or in-depth explanations of flip-flops on key issues, even a direct answer on what she'll do day one, if elected, then they may be left disappointed by the first sit-down interview by Kamala Harris since becoming the Democratic nominee for president. Harris has been under growing pressure to answer some tough questions

about her policies, as well as her role during the Biden administration.

For the most part, she spoke in broad terms, avoided specifics. She explained her shift from anti-fracking to not being anti-fracking as this: "My values have not changed."

This was a joint interview with her running mate, Tim Walz. That, too, the focus of much criticism.

Overall, though, Harris tried to frame the race with Donald Trump as a new way forward after nearly a decade of Trump and his negative, nasty politics.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: I am so proud to have served as vice president to Joe Biden and, too, I'm so proud to be running with Tim Walz for president of the United States, and to bring America what I do believe the American people deserve, which is a new way forward and turn the page on the last decade of what I believe has been contrary to where the spirit of our country really lies.

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: But the last decade, of course, the last three- and-a-half years has been part of your administration.

HARRIS: I'm talking about an era that started about a decade ago, where there is some suggestion -- warped, I believe it to be -- that the measure of the strength of a leader is based on who you beat down, instead of where I believe most Americans are, which is to believe that the true measure of the strength of a leader is based on who you lift up. That's what's at stake as much as any other detail that we could discuss in this election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Standing by in Washington is CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist Maria Cardona. And on the other side of the country in Mountain View, California, Lanhee Chen, former policy director for Republican Mitt Romney's 2012 presidential campaign, also fellow at the Hoover Institute at Stanford University.

Thank you both for staying up late. It's good to see you.

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You, too. Thanks for having us.

LANHEE CHEN, FORMER POLICY DIRECTOR, MITT ROMNEY'S 2012 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: Thanks, John.

VAUSE: OK. So, one area where Harris is seen to be especially vulnerable is the area of immigration and the Southern border. As vice president, she was charged with trying to improve border security. And when asked about that, here's how she responded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: A bill was crafted, which we supported, which I support, and Donald Trump, got word of this bill that would have contributed to securing our border. And because he believes that it would not have helped him politically, he told his folks in Congress, don't put it forward. He killed the bill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: So Lanhee, first to you. When it comes to immigration, one of the most important key issues to voters in this coming up election, did Donald Trump give Harris a get-out-of-jail-free card?

CHEN: Yes. Look, I think that's the best answer she could have given in that context.

There's no -- there's no question that the killing of the bipartisan immigration bill was a loss, not just for the country, but politically, was something of a gift to Democrats.

Now, I do think Republicans and Trump are still going to attack Harris for the several years before that immigration bill came forward. And her inactivity or lack of action on the border, given her responsibilities addressing, as she says, the root causes of migration.

But putting that aside for a moment, it's a very effective talking point. She used it tonight. And I think that defuses, in some ways, the issue for her.

[00:05:04]

VAUSE: And so Maria, just overall, if you look at this in its sort of totality, it seems that, you know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. You know, she's doing this sort of, you know, do no harm strategy throughout this interview.

CARDONA: I think that's exactly right, John, but more than that, I actually think she did very well, especially for those voters who don't know her very well.

What she did was she talked about what she and Tim Walz would do. You know, she talked about what she would do the first day in office.

But overall, what I believe voters want to hear from a leader are their values. How would they lead? What is their true North? What do they believe in? What will wake them up in the morning? And what will their priorities be?

And Kamala Harris tonight focused on that she would wake up every day, focused on what working-class families need, what middle-class families need, expanding the middle-class, talking about an opportunity economy, talking about the accomplishments of the Biden- Harris administration.

But also understanding and connecting with those voters who are still struggling with the high cost of groceries, with the high cost of mortgages and rent. She was very specific on those policies.

And also, the issues of expanding our rights and freedoms, which as you know, John, that's going to be a huge issue this election, the way that it has been ever since Donald Trump appointed the three extremist Supreme Court judges that took away Roe v. Wade.

That continues to be an incredibly energizing, mobilizing issue for men and women in this country.

And so I think that her framing this election in terms of a contrast and a choice between somebody who's going to expand your rights and freedoms, give you the opportunity to live the American dream, versus somebody who only wakes up thinking, how can they benefit themselves, and frankly, how to stay out of prison, I think that's a contrast that's going to go in her favor in November.

VAUSE: It also seemed in many ways that -- that Harris is sort of wanting to have both sides of the -- you know, of the equation. She's walking both sides of the argument, if you like.

Like when she embraced Bidenomics. She was asked specifically about the economy and, you know, the fact that inflation was high; people had been suffering. Here she is with her support, sort of qualified support for Bidenomics. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: When we came in, our highest priority was to do what we could to rescue America. And today, we know that we have inflation at under 3 percent. A lot of our policies have led to the reality that America recovered faster than any wealthy nation around the world.

But you are right. Prices, in particular, for groceries are still too high.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: So Lanhee, there it is, that qualified support. You know, we did very well, but we've still got work to do. I wasn't part of it. That was Joe Biden.

Is this something that voters will understand, or does it -- does it give Trump an opening?

CHEN: Yes, I think this is a very confusing answer in some ways, because she's trying to have her cake and eat it, too. Essentially saying, look, you know, we did the right things. We had the right policies, but don't associate me with Bidenomics, the term.

And I think it is confusing, because the policies she's proposed, the things that she's talking about doing, aren't really going to have an impact on the challenges and problems that she says that she's trying to address.

You know, all of the policies she's rolled out thus far, if you investigate them and you actually look at them, even some progressive economists have argued, for example, that her plan to stop price gouging is bogus.

So, it will be interesting to see how she continues to navigate this tight rope, not just being on both sides of an issue like with fracking, where I thought she gave a disastrous answer tonight.

But on other area -- issue areas where she tries to pretend as though she's got solutions that have nothing to do with the last four years in office when, in fact, she's got to own both the successes and the challenges and failures we've seen during this administration.

VAUSE: And what was interesting, though, Donald Trump apparently didn't really like the look of the interview. He made that comment during a town hall. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: She did an interview today. She didn't want to go in alone. How do you think President Xi is going to do with this? Oh, he's just -- he's just savoring it. So, she went in with his vice president guy that nobody ever heard of.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: In fact, Harris, when asked about one of Donald Trump's earlier attacks, kind of had this to say. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: I think, sadly, in the last decade, we have had, in the former president, someone who has really been pushing an agenda and an environment that is about diminishing the character and the strength of who we are as Americans; really dividing our nation.

And I think people are ready to turn the page on that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: So, Maria, many have tried. All have failed to take the high road when dealing with Donald Trump. Is this the election when that might work?

[00:10:03]

CARDONA: Absolutely. I think she was brilliant in those answers, John. I think one of the other places where she gave a brilliant answer, which was related to Donald Trump's sexist insults, is when Dana Bash asked her about Donald Trump wondering, you know, how she had suddenly turned black.

She didn't take the bait. She said the same old, tired playbook. Next question.

And that's exactly what she needs to do, because the American people understand what a putrid person, what horrific character Donald Trump has. And frankly, what these polls are showing, the energy and the optimism

and the mobilization behind Kamala Harris is showing that Americans are sick of it, and they are responding to her.

They are responding to her, because she is the one who is showing that she's connected to the struggles and what American families and middle-class families want and need.

And, you know, Republican, they're going to be trying to attack her on this policy in that policy. But the fact of the matter is that she is threading that needle. She is not running away from the policies that are majorly popular, like the $35 insulin cap, the $2,000 prescription drug cap; the expanding rights and freedoms protecting LGBTQ communities; making sure that students can actually get away from crushing student debt.

Those are incredibly popular policies.

And at the same time, she's saying, but we have to do more. That is not confusing. That is something that voters who are struggling can absolutely understand.

And they're happy to hear, for example, if you're trying to buy a house, that she wants to give a $25,000 tax credit for first-time homeowners. That is very simple to understand.

Contrast that to somebody like Donald Trump, who has Project 2025, where economists say will explode inflation --

VAUSE: Right.

CARDONA: -- will have middle-class families, you know, costing tons in new taxes.

VAUSE: Yes.

CARDONA: That's a contrast that's going to help Kamala Harris.

VAUSE: We did see Donald Trump in that last soundbite talking about Tim Walz being at the interview. And that was a major criticism for a lot of conservatives before the actual interview went to air. You know, the accusation was she needed Walz there to prop her up, because she couldn't answer the questions.

Lanhee, is that criticism a little unfair, given that John Kerry and John Edwards were both interviewed together in 2004? Four years later, Barack Obama and a guy called Joe Biden, was there. Also, John McCain and Sarah Palins on the other side of the ticket there. Both turned up for that joint interview there.

In 2012, it was Mitt Romney -- there were. There's Biden and Obama. By 2012, it was Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan.

Then 2016 some guy called Donald Trump in a joint interview with hang Mike Pence. And there was also Tim Mc -- Time Kaine and Hillary Clinton. We've got these a little bit out of order. This is all my fault.

Four years after that, Biden again. There's Trump and Pence. Biden again with Kamala Harris. That was 2020. And then since then, pandemic years, we've had Trump and J.D. Vance just a couple of weeks ago, I think.

So, you know, running -- if two men were running, would there have been the same criticism?

CHEN: Yes, I mean, look, I think it's a silly argument to try and prosecute. Right? I mean, again, there's plenty on the substance of this to -- to question.

The vice president and her campaign. I actually thought that Governor Walz was one of the stronger elements of the interview tonight. I thought that he presented himself favorably.

And I think a lot of Americans still don't know much about him, right? So, this is an introduction to him, and it was an opportunity for him.

But, you know, she had the lion's share of the time. If you look at -- I don't know what the exact breakdown is, but I'm sure somebody there can get it -- that the vast majority of the interview was with Vice President Harris. She was the one responsible for the majority of questions. She was the one that I thought miffed the fracking answers.

She was the one who == who gave answers that, in some cases, were nonsensical, like when she couldn't really tell you what you wanted to do on day one specifically.

So, I mean, the focus should be on Vice President Harris and her answers. And the fact that they did a joint interview is really -- it's of no consequence, because as you know, pretty much every presidential ticket does joint interviews.

So, that -- that's not where I would go in my criticism of the interview this evening.

VAUSE: Sir, very much for that. We appreciate you being with us. Also, Maria Cardona. You guys have been great. Thanks for staying up.

CARDONA: Thank you.

VAUSE: Cheers.

We'll take a short break. When we come back, Israel in the midst of its largest assaults on the occupied West Bank in years. The IDF saying it's targeting terrorists, but civilians are also paying a very high toll. Those details straight ahead.

Also, hundreds of thousands of children in Gaza will soon be receiving a polio vaccine. Details on how the life-saving vaccinations will be carried out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [00:17:02]

VAUSE: Accusations of war crimes from Jordan to Israel, saying the Israelis are carrying out war crimes against Palestinians in Gaza, as well as the West Bank. Now calling for immediate action from the international community.

All that comes amid a growing polio crisis in Gaza, as Israel carries out one of its largest assaults on the occupied West Bank in years.

Israeli military said Thursday it killed five Palestinian militants, including an Islamic jihad commander, as part of that West Bank operation.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond has details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For the second day in a row, bursts of gunfire cut through the city of Jenin in the occupied West Bank.

Israeli soldiers and border police are raiding the Northern West Bank in one of the largest operations in years, triggering clashes with Palestinian militants who are deeply embedded here.

Israeli forces have killed at least 16 people in 48 hours, according to health officials. Israel says 16 were militants. Palestinian militant groups said just eight of their fighters had been killed.

In Jenin, Israeli forces have surrounded several hospitals. Ambulances must stop and be inspected before taking patients in for treatment.

Markets and bustling downtown streets have been turned into a ghost town, one where streets, water, and electrical lines will need to be repaired.

DIAMOND: This is the aftermath of an Israeli military operation in the city of Jenin. Streets torn up by those D-9 bulldozers. And we've seen scenes like this across this city.

Those bulldozers, as well as armored Israeli military vehicles, came rolling down this street. Clashes with gunmen, we're told, ensued.

DIAMOND (voice-over): Suzanne Gilad (ph) and her grandchildren were woken by the sound of bulldozers and gunfire at seven in the morning.

"It was loud, very loud. Everybody was terrified." She says this Israeli operation is different from the regular raids the city has grown used to. "They want to take revenge," she says.

"From who?" I ask.

"From the resistance. We stand with the resistance, and hopefully, we will stay standing and steadfast."

Israel says it is targeting militant groups who have mounted dozens of attacks against its soldiers and civilians.

In the Palestinian city of Tulkarem, Israel killed one man it says was behind some of those attacks: Mohammed Jaber, an Islamic Jihad commander.

But at El-Razi hospital in Jenin, the victims of Israel's raids are also children, like 15-year-old Usama (ph), who tried to leave his home to buy bread.

"I took two steps, and they started firing at me," Usama (ph) says. "Two rounds of gunfire. One bullet came here, and one bullet came here."

DIAMOND: And did you see any soldiers before you got shot?

"No," he says.

USAMA (ph): Sniper.

DIAMOND (VOICE-OVER): He now faces a long recovery, and a life trapped in this seemingly endless cycle of violence.

DIAMOND: In a statement, the Israeli military confirmed that they shot Usama (ph), claiming that he posed a serious threat to security forces.

[00:20:03]

They also said that they coordinated his evacuation to a hospital with a local Palestinian ambulance service. Despite making such a serious allegation against him, Israeli authorities have not arrested him.

Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Tel Aviv.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: Well, both Israel and Hamas have agreed to a pause in fighting in parts of Gaza so hundreds of thousands of children can be immunized for polio.

An Israeli official confirmed to CNN, they will be humanitarian pauses about seven hours long, over three days, starting Sunday in central Gaza, then to the North and to the South.

Hamas says it welcomed the U.N. request for the pause and again will -- will cooperate, rather, to secure the vaccination campaign.

To a man now in Jordan and Dr. Hamid Jafari, a regional director of polio eradication for the World Health Organization.

Thank you for being with us.

DR. HAMID JAFARI, REGIONAL DIRECTOR OF POLIO ERADICATION, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION: Thank you.

VAUSE: So, with this agreement between Hamas and Israel, health workers have just a few days and just a few hours each day to focus on different parts of Gaza.

Here's a little more now from the WHO on the challenges they now face in the Gaza Strip. Here we are.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PEEPERKORN: Due to the insecurity, the damage, the road infrastructure and population displacement, but also based on our experience with these kind of campaigns globally and worldwide, the three days might not be enough to achieve adequate vaccination.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: So, they're obviously up against a lot of challenges here. And if they aren't able to reach all 640,000 children in Gaza in those three days, is there a possibility here of extending the pause in fighting? Because when it comes to immunization, it's pretty much an all or nothing approach, right?

JAFARI: Well, I think in order for us to be able to stop this outbreak and prevent its international spread, we must target achieving 100 percent coverage.

At least 90 percent is what would be the minimum acceptable in a very complex and constrained environment.

Ideally, what we do is to do house-to-house vaccination all across the geography. That will be all across Gaza over a short period of time, five to -- to seven days.

But we have been able to negotiate, you know, three days. The agreement is that, if an additional day is needed to cover any children that remain in that particular area, then that extra day would be provided for vaccination.

So, it is going to be very tight. We are not doing house to house vaccination. People are moving, so the risk of missing children remains high.

VAUSE: So, for most -- Gaza's hospital and health services have taken a pounding by the Israeli military. Mick Ryan, the director of the WHO's health emergency response program, says it's clearly one of the major reasons for the return of polio to Gaza. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PEEPERKORN: The current outbreak in Gaza is a stark reminder of how quickly infectious diseases can re-emerge, where health systems are compromised.

Many other diseases are spreading while our collective capacities to prevent, detect, and respond to them continue to be hindered.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: And when it comes to viruses and contagious diseases, what happens in Gaza, as you say, will not stay in Gaza. So, acting now to stop the viral spread, it's not just in the interests of Gaza. It's not just in the interests of Israel. It's in the interests of the entire world at this point.

JAFARI: Absolutely. Polio demands a public health emergency of international concern under international health regulation.

You recall two years ago, a similar poliovirus was detected in the sewage samples in London, sewage samples in New York, and in New York, there was also a paralytic case of polio caused by a similar virus.

So, this virus traveled fast. And the conditions in Gaza, with displacement, with overcrowding, lack of clean water, and significant exposure to sewage. This virus is transmitted fecal, oral transmission.

So extensive exposure to virus, the transmission, we think, is all across Gaza. It's widespread, and it's intense.

So, it's going to take a very rigorous effort to vaccinate all children and stop this outbreak and prevent its spread.

And the -- you know, the neighborhood is -- you know, has weak health systems, like Lebanon is going through a crisis. Sudan (ph) is in a post-war, you know, situation. So the risk of spread internationally remains high.

VAUSE: It's been, what, 25 years since there police was last detected in Gaza. And the WHO and other aid groups worked for years to make that happen.

Just -- in many ways, it must be devastating to be in this situation right now.

JAFARI: It is tragic. No case of polio for 25 years. Gaza had a very high immunization coverage rate against polio and other vaccine- preventable diseases of -- of children.

So, since the start of the war in October last year, the immunization services also started to decline because of the destruction of health facilities, health -- health centers.

[00:25:08]

So, the polio case, the only polio case so far that has been confirmed in Gaza is in a 10-month-old child, because it's the youngest that are not getting vaccinated, and they are the ones that are most vulnerable.

VAUSE: Dr. Hamid Jafari, thank you so much, there in Amman, Jordan. Appreciate your time and your insight, sir. Thank you.

JAFARI: Thank you.

VAUSE: We'll take a very short break. When we come back, did Kamala Harris play it too safe during her first big interview as nominee? We'll ask one of the country's foremost political watchers. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAUSE: And welcome back. I'm John Vause. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM.

It was the U.S. vice president's first sit-down interview since becoming the party's nominee and a chance to fill in some of the blanks for voters.

She appeared alongside her running mate, Minnesota Governor Tim Walz. And Harris had this first unscripted interview with a major media outlet since Joe Biden dropped out of the race to all suddenly about six weeks ago.

Harris told CNN she would begin implementing some of her economic policies on her first day in office, reiterated support for a two- state solution between Israel and the Palestinians.

The Democratic nominee also defended policy shifts on issues like fracking and decriminalizing the Southern border. When pressed, she says her values have not changed, but her time as U.S. vice president has given her a new perspective.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: I think the -- the most important and most significant aspect of my policy perspective and decisions is my values have not changed.

You mentioned the Green New Deal. I have always believed -- and I have worked on it -- that the climate crisis is real, that it is an urgent matter to which we should apply metrics that include holding ourselves to deadlines around time. We did that with the Inflation Reduction Act.

We have set goals for the United States of America, and by extension, the globe, around when we should meet certain standards for reduction of greenhouse gas emissions, as an example.

That value has not changed. My value around what we need to do to secure our border. That value has not changed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Larry Sabato is the director of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia. He is also the editor of "A Return to Normalcy: The 2020 Election that Almost Broke America."

Good to see you.

LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR POLITICS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: Nice to see you, John.

VAUSE: For the Harris campaign, the mantra for this interview on CNN seems to be do-no-harm. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BASH: If you are elected, what would you do on day one in the White House?

HARRIS: Well, there are a number of things. I will tell you first and foremost, one of my highest priorities is to do what we can to support and strengthen the middle class.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[00:30:12]

VAUSE: Strengthening the middle class is aspirational. There's the big picture goals. It's not exactly what you do on day one. Harris didn't really give a specific example of what she would do on day one.

It seems she played it fairly safe for the entire interview. Not a lot of specifics, but did she play it too safe?

SABATO: Well, I think for a first interview -- and this is her first real post-nomination interview, maybe even longer than that.

And for Walz, certainly, the first one where she's -- where he is with his running mate, and they have an opportunity to discuss things.

But look, you get general impressions from an interview like this. And I think people's general impression would be that the nominee for president and vice president were both acceptable and friendly and conversational.

You're not going to learn in depth about policy. For those of us who follow politics incessantly, you know, 24 hours a day, almost, we particularly wouldn't learn anything new.

But I think, for people who casually follow politics, who know this is important, who are just tuning in, because after all, it's Labor Day weekend.

And that is traditionally when campaigns start. They really start years prior.

But in this particular case, it really is the beginning of a campaign. They would learn something. They would get impressions of the candidates that give them some sense of who they are and how they approach things.

And they came across as normal. And that is actually a big plus in American politics these days. You don't get a lot of normal people who are running for higher office or people who come across as normal.

VAUSE: Well, it's a very good point.

There was one interesting moment when Harris was actually asked about one of Donald Trump's recent attacks on her. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: He suggested that you happened to turn black recently for political purposes, questioning a core part of your identity.

HARRIS: Yes. And his same old tired playbook. Next question, please.

BASH: That's it?

HARRIS: That's it.

BASH: OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: She just didn't even respond to it. There's just a smile and a "let's move on."

I mean, this -- rising above that sort of fray, that political mudslinging. If you want to know what kind of person Harris is, I guess that's one of the examples that she just gave everybody.

SABATO: Yes, it is. And also, it was absolutely the correct answer.

because what was Donald Trump trying to do? He was trying to elicit from the Harris campaign, from Harris supporters and eventually from Harris herself, something that would enable him to divide the American electorate into the 60-plus percent who are going to vote who will be white; and the 30 percent plus who are going to vote who will be of some other nationality. Black or Asian or Hispanic and so on.

And that's what he wants. because divisiveness serves Donald Trump. She didn't play into it. And that's what she has to do.

Notice how different this is than in 2008 when Barack Obama ran. And it was impossible to avoid the historical implications of having, potentially, a black president.

Well, you know, been there, done that. We haven't had a woman president. We haven't had a president of Asian descent. But that's not what she wants to discuss, and it's not what people want to hear, actually. They want to hear substance and policy.

Now, she got into some of that. Most of it was superficial.

VAUSE: Yes. Well, you know, the fact that this was a joint interview, that triggered a lot of criticism from conservatives, mostly saying Tim Walz was there to prop Harris up.

"The Wall Street Journal" opinion piece had this. "The one-on-two format will limit Ms. Harris's time in answering questions. It will also make it harder for Ms. Bash to post follow-up questions that bore in on the vice president's contradictions with previous positions. Mr. Walz will be there with a parachute to rescue the presidential candidate if she has a rough go or struggles to answer something. This is one more Harris campaign insult to American voters."

Yet, none of that actually happened in reality during the interview. And we should note that every election since 2004, a presidential candidate and their running mate have sat down for a joint interview.

SABATO: That's precisely right. In fact, it goes back much further than that. This really began with Jimmy Carter picking Walter Mondale as his vice president. And that's how the administration was run, but it was also how the campaign was run. They did a number of joint events together.

But the point here is that that insinuation by "The Wall Street Journal" turned out to be completely wrong. And I noticed that Walz never really interrupted or added very much to what Harris was saying.

[00:35:06]

He was asked some specific questions about his own background and his own controversies. And that was a smaller part of the actual hour presentation.

VAUSE: Yes, he was -- he demurred all the time to Harris. He certainly kept his -- himself out of the -- out of the picture in many, many ways. And I guess that's what a vice-presidential running mate does at the end of the day.

SABATO: Yes, he's getting -- he's getting in practice for being vice president.

VAUSE: Larry, so good to see you. Thanks very much.

SABATO: Thank you, John.

VAUSE: The entire CNN exclusive interview with Kamala Harris and Tim -- Kamala Harris and Tim Walz will air again in about 90 minutes from now.

That's 7 a.m. in London, 10 a.m. in Abu Dhabi. And if you want to see the Kamala Harris interview again for a third time, perhaps, it will have again at 2 p.m. in London. That's 5 p.m. in Abu Dhabi.

When we come back here on CNN, dramatic images show an oil tanker blown up by Houthi rebels in the Red Sea. The Pentagon says the ship's saga is far from over, and there's a potential environmental catastrophe in the making.

Also ahead, Ukraine confirms its first loss of an F-16 fighter, which also claimed the life of a star military pilot.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:38:18]

VAUSE: Yemen's Houthi rebels have released these images showing explosions on an oil tanker, which they now control.

They rigged it with explosives. the crew abandoned the tanker after it came under fire from Houthi missiles.

The Pentagon wants a ship is still on fire. There's a million barrels of crude oil, or the equivalent of, on board. And officials now say a potential environmental catastrophe is in the making.

Houthis have said they'll allow rescue vessels to tow the taker, but just when that happens is still unclear.

The Houthis have been targeting shipping in the Red Sea in support of Palestinians in the Gaza -- in Gaza in their war with Israel.

Ukraine has appointed a special commission to investigate its first confirmed loss of an F-16 fighter jet, which came from the West.

The plane went down during a massive Russian aerial attack Monday. A Ukrainian source says pilot error is not believed to be behind the crash.

But as CNN's Fred Pleitgen reports, the loss of that particular pilot is a major blow for Kyiv.

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FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Ukraine called it the largest Russian aerial barrage to date. Moscow's troops launching hundreds of drones and missiles on Monday.

Ukraine, using U.S.-made F-16 jets to help repel the attack. Now, Kyiv acknowledging one of the F-16s crashed, killing one of Ukraine's top fighter aces, Oleksiy Mes, known by his call sign Moonfish.

Ukraine's general command saying, quote, "During the approach to the next target, communication with one of the aircraft was lost. As it turned out later, the plane crashed, the pilot died."

Few Ukrainian fighter pilots were more instrumental in lobbying partners to give Ukraine the F-16s than Moonfish.

OLEKSIY MES, FIGHTER PILOT: This war does not appear to end soon. If West will provide us with some additional jets, with some additional SAMs, and we are -- we're really looking forward to it. We -- I think we will be able to control our sky for -- for a while.

[00:40:14]

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Moonfish was one of the first Ukrainian pilots instructed on the F-16, around six months of training that normally take years.

MES: It is really a super-fun jet to fly. I'm not saying that the MiG that I flew before is super boring, but the F-16 is definitely more agile. It easily moves -- the moment you think of something, it -- it turns.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Ukraine's president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, had been asking Western allies for the F-16s since the start of Russia's full-scale invasion, warning that Ukraine's air force was becoming more and more depleted and that its old Soviet-era planes couldn't match up against Russia's newer aircraft. Finally, last year, several European countries agreed to donate the

jets, with the green light from the U.S., as the manufacturing country.

Moonfish and another pilot known by the call sign Juice became the faces of the campaign to get the F-16s to Ukraine's skies. Juice was killed in a plane crash just over a year ago before ever flying the jets.

On Tuesday, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said the Ukrainian air force used the F-16 to destroy missiles and drones launched by Russia on Monday, the first time any Ukrainian official confirmed the jets were being used in combat.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: We destroyed already some missiles and drones using the F-16. I will not share how many, but we did it.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): One of the few pilots trained to fly the jets, Moonfish's death is a major blow for Ukraine, as Kyiv throws everything it has, trying to turn the tide in this war.

MES: We are -- we are comparatively small air force, and we know each other by names. And of course, we know well all -- all our fallen friends.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Chemichel (ph), Poland.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: French President Emmanuel Macron has denied inviting Telegram founder Pavel Durov to Paris, says he had no prior knowledge of his arrival.

The Russian billionaire is also a French citizen, and that too was fast-tracked.

And he was arrested Saturday. He's being investigated for offenses related to criminal activity on the messaging platform.

Macron says the arrest was undertaken independently by the Justice Department. Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov warned the internet should not be turned into a political persecution.

I'm John Vause, back at the top of the hour with more CNN NEWSROOM. But first, please stay with us. WORLD SPORT is up next after a short break.

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