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CNN International: Zelenskyy Fires Air Force Chief After Fatal F-16 Crash; Humanitarian Pauses For Polio Vaccinations To Begin Sunday; Harris Defends Policy Shifts: "My Values Have Not Changed"; China's Xi Meets U.S. National Security Adviser In Beijing. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired August 30, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:34]

PAULA NEWTON, CNN HOST: It's 8:00 p.m. in London, 10:00 p.m. in Kyiv, 3:00 a.m. in Beijing and 3:00 p.m. right here in New York.

I'm Paula Newton, in today for Jim Sciutto. Thank you for joining me on CNN NEWSROOM. Let's get straight to the news.

President Zelenskyy has fired his air force chief just days after a U.S. made F-16 fighter jet crashed, killing one of its top pilots.

Now it's unclear if the two incidents are related, but Zelenskyy said the command level of the air force needed strengthening, his words. The F-16s, which the Ukrainians have long asked for, only arrived at the start of the month. All this comes as the Ukrainian defense minister, meantime, is in Washington pleading their case to allow the United States to lift restrictions on its weapons.

Rustem Umerov met with U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin earlier today as Ukraine gains more territory inside Russia. Now, over the past day, Ukrainian forces say they have advanced up to two kilometers. That's in the Kursk region.

CNN's Oren Liebermann joins me now from the Pentagon.

I mean, I'm interested to learn from you about the curiosity that American officials will have right now about this F-16 crash. As I said, you have certainly been following this story very closely -- closely, up to and including the fact that, you know, this does involve training -- U.S. training on these pilots.

And beyond that, you know, where this goes from here, given all the Western military aid, Ukraine is still asking for.

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, U.S. official so far have been very careful with what they say about the F-16 crash. They have not attributed a cause of the crash or said, who or what is responsible. At the same time, U.S. experts are ready to help should they be needed, but they're not expected to have access to the crash site itself and do this investigation you would expect or you would see if a U.S. F-16 crashed. They'll simply help the Ukrainians because although this is U.S. manufactured, it is, of course, a Ukrainian F-16 one, they got from a European country, not directly from the U.S.

At the same time, U.S. officials were well aware of what it takes to operate and maintain these jets. These are complex jets. U.S. F-16s don't operate 100 percent of the time. They have their own readiness rates. They are rotated out of frontline and flying an operations regularly for maintenance. So that will be something certainly Ukrainians are looking to examine what is their own readiness levels for their jets, given the fact that the pilots effectively, had a truncated timeline for their training.

On top of that, Ukraine's military is effectively the most complex in the world because of all these different systems from all these different countries that they have to make work together. And that includes aircraft, command and control, control nodes, air defenses, all of these have to talk to each other on her right way as they're being bombarded with these Russian aerial assaults with dozens, if not, if not, hundreds of drones and missiles.

So all of that creates an incredibly complex environment in which you have to operate these F-16s. Ukrainians need to sort through all of that as part of this investigation with whatever help the U.S. can provide from the outside. So, we will be very closely watching this. It will also be interesting to see how Ukraine approaches what is effectively their prized possession right now, having only had them operating for several weeks at this point, Paula.

NEWTON: Yeah, they me just stunned, so many years, years waiting for these fighter jets and now to have this incident happened.

Oren Liebermann from the Pentagon, thanks so much.

Joining me now to discuss is General Wesley Clark. He is a former NATO allied commander, supreme commander, and founder of Renew America Together.

Good to see you again, General.

And I noticed may be a tough question, but I am curious to ask you when you heard that this fighter jet crashed, so soon after being put into use in Ukraine, were you surprised? And I ask because, obviously, trying to use these fighter jets in combat -- very stressful combat with a very crowded battlefield, are you surprised or do you think these are the risks?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I was surprised because I thought that Ukrainians were taking it step by step, because they were using the aircraft. And then I heard that they were using it to shoot down drones and so forth at night. So, it's very possible this could have been a case of pilot task overload. When you're in the cockpit and it's a complex environment and you're playing with switches and trying to keep your head up and the attitude of the aircraft and look at the targets and pick the weapon system, got to be really well-trained.

[15:05:07]

You've got to be quick. It's a tough situation.

Now, presumably, the pilots were well-trained. Sure, what else could it have been it could have been a mechanical malfunction, electrical malfunction -- that's possible. It also could have been shown problem of friend on -- friend on friend engagement from one of the air defense systems in Ukraine.

We just don't know yet. Hope it's not the latter. It's a tragedy, whatever it is. And I'm sure that Ukrainians will get to the bottom of it.

But, Paula, the important point to understand it is, look, it's a country at war. It's fighting for its very survival of life and people are dying over there every day, lots of people, and we've got to do everything we can to help them, and that means not cutting off the F- 16s but giving them more -- get to -- getting the training in there. And I hope releasing the hold on, being able to use those ATACMS to hit targets deep in Russia.

NEWTON: You know, there has been a debate about whether or not the F- 16s will make a difference. As you see the way this conflict has, you know, come to fruition, here we are two-and-a-half years on. What do you think? Do you think -- and again, they now only have a few a handful left. As they get more of them, do you believe they can be the game changer still?

CLARK: I don't think any single system can be a game changer in this conflict. And in fact, the Ukrainians -- innovation is the greatest game changer in the conflict really. F-16s can help.

So, if you can equip the F-16 with long-range air to surface missiles. That's one thing. If you can give them a longer range air, air interceptor, missile, so they can hit these Russian planes when they're bringing the glide bombs over. That's another thing.

But to do that, you've got I get closer to the front frontlines and you've got to have the ability to shut down the Russian air defense systems and the EW that might interfere with the F-16.

So this is a matter of working it incrementally, understanding the threat environment the envelope of your flight, understanding what you're weapon systems can do and then exquisite timing and execution. It's a play and you have to develop it over a period of days and weeks, maybe months.

NEWTON: In terms of the strategy ahead, I mean, look, President Zelenskyy plans to present its so-called victory plan to Biden next month. You as a commander there at the Pentagon or at NATO, if you've got the president incoming with what he has turned to be a victory plan, what are you looking for? And do you believe it will take some convincing?

CLARK: I think it will take convincing because I think that the United States are still wary of Putin is, his atmospherics and the chances this could go to some kind of use of nuclear weapons. But on the other hand, the longer this goes on, the greater the risk, actually. It's not as the risk is getting lower, the risk is getting higher as Putin gets more frustrated and as other complexities come in like the possibility of an Iranian nuclear weapon.

So there's a lot happening right now. What I would look for is in the plan, I'd look to see is it realistic? What does it take? And so they don't have the combat power to really take back what they need right now to force Putin out or force him to the negotiating table.

But what's it going to take, a realistic plan that shows what the requirements are, the United States got to buy off on those requirements and fulfill those requirements. And here's the thing, Paula, there's no quick fix on this.

This incursion into Kursk, it's great. And he used eight to ten combat brigades, that's most of their reserve force and you can see its taken a very small slice of an -- it's not yet able to obtain a strategic military objective. It's politically strategic, everybody's talking about it. Putin's embarrassed. He's going to have to do something.

But they haven't been able to get to Crimea, cut the logistics lines to Crimea, go back to Kursk and take out the factories and the nuclear power plant there to seize bargaining leverage. And so, it's clear that it takes more than aides to do this.

NEWTON: Understood.

CLARK: Got to be resourced.

NEWTON: Understood. General Wesley Clark for us, thanks so much.

Now, Israel's military says it has completed its ground operation in parts of southern Gaza, telling residents there from three neighborhoods, they can return home. But many arrived to nothing but rubble and ruin, unable to salvage anything. The war has also damaged Gaza's health and sanitation infrastructure as we've been reporting for months, creating a breeding ground for diseases, and that includes polio.

Israel and Hamas have now agreed humanitarian pauses in the coming days to allow the United Nations to administer polio vaccines.

[15:10:04]

And get this -- they aim to vaccinate 640,000 children.

CNN International diplomatic editor Nic Robertson is in Tel Aviv for us. And I know you are now learning exactly how they proposed to get through this logistical hurdle over the next few days.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah, I was speaking with Sam Rose, who's a senior UNRWA U.N. official inside of Gaza, who's working on putting this plan and implementing this plan, and is literally one coming together over the last few hours, was only this morning that they learned about the pauses -- the humanitarian pauses, it's through the day that they're even sort of getting the duration and the exact timing of those pauses figured out. He described this as a monumental undertaking, something they've never done before, never in a combat zone had to do this. They're going to have used their medical centers, use their smaller medical clinics? They're going to have roving teams who literally be setting up out in the desert in the middle of tents. They're going to have about 3,000 workers out there because it's a really, really limited space of time they have available.

This is broken down into three different areas, the center, the south, the north, each of those areas gets three days for these pauses and each of the pauses on each of those days, it's about seven or eight hours long. So kind of multiply all that out. You said there 640,000 children under the age of ten need to get the vaccine, multiply that out, the number of hours you've got there. That's -- that means basically you need to get through roughly 10,000 children an hour.

Now he feels confident that they're ready to do it, but there are so many unknowns. And one of them is the fact that number 640,000 and they need to -- they need to vaccinate 90 percent of them. So you can check off the numbers as you go through them, but they're not really clear, it's a good estimate, he says, but they're not clear how many of those children sadly may be trapped under rubble. They don't have a precise numbers.

So, there's all these difficulties in and putting this plan together, but they plan to sort of learn from each day and make changes and a review their calculations each day but there's one other thing here that that is a major hurdle and it's a hurdle that's so far down the road for weeks away that he can't -- he couldn't even answer me. I said, do you have any guarantees yet that you'll be able to implement the second phase of this because the second phase is a second dose.

And he said, if you don't give that, then that means the whole of this 12th day period of vaccination coming up, you just lose it. It has no effect at all. So they have to get another pause in four weeks time and is no idea yet, hopes, of course, but no guarantees of that will actually happen, Paula.

NEWTON: Well, Nic, you have certainly laid out to challenge and we at first we definitely hope that those humanitarian pauses stay in place so they can at least give this a shot. Pardon the pun.

Nic Robertson for us, thanks so much. Really appreciate the detail there.

Still ahead for us, cleaning up Trump's stances? The former president's campaign is working to clarify his positions on abortion and IVF.

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NEWTON: And welcome back.

Former President Trump is in battleground Pennsylvania today, campaigning in one of the most closely contested parts of the state. Johnstown, Pennsylvania, went for Joe Biden back in 2020, but barely, just -- can you imagine this -- 80 votes, but in 2016 went for Trump by similarly close margins.

And while Trump is there, the campaign is trying to clarify his stance on reproductive rights after Trump weighed in on Florida's six-week abortion ban and in vitro fertilization. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think the six-week is too short. It has to be more time, and so, that's -- and I've told them that I want more weeks.

For people that are using IVF, which is fertilization, we are governed -- the government is going to pay for it, or we're going to get or mandate your insurance company to pay for it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEWTON: So here's the thing, both those statements seem to run counter to Trump and the GOP's long-standing positions on health care mandates, fetal personhood rights, and abortion restrictions.

Jason Carroll is at Trump's Pennsylvania event and has been digging into what exactly Trump's position is on that Florida six-week abortion law. Remember, he's actually a resident in the state of Florida and the states upcoming ballot measure is on abortion -- Jason.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, what the campaign is trying to make clear here, and that's simply because, you know, a lot of cultural saying, the former president didn't make it clear when it comes to what he's going on in Florida, the president's position is the following, he does not support a six-week ban. That is what the campaign is trying to make that point after Trump himself spoke about this and was specifically clear about what sort of timeline he was talking about in terms of what would he support?

That's why there's so much ambiguity there. But the broader issue here is this, what the campaign is trying to, as they're trying to appeal at this point to as many people as possible, including those people who turned away from the GOP and turned away from the former president with the feeling that this is a party that is not receptive to those who respect reproductive rights.

And so that's why you see the former president now trying to find that sweet spot if you will in terms -- in terms of what to do with this -- with this initiative in Florida. And not surprising now, he's come up with this new plan in terms of IVF treatment, which is a new initiative that is putting forth.

He is saying that if you were to be reelected, his administration would see to it that any couples seeking IVF treatment, they would have that covered by the government. And if the government doesn't cover it -- cover it, then it would be the responsibility of insurance industries to cover the full cost.

Again, some questions still outstanding there in terms of where is this money going to come from? How is that going to be paid for? So a lot of still outstanding questions here surrounding the top of reproductive rights, again, all in an effort to reach out to some of those voters who have left the fold.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEWTON: Thanks to Jason there.

Now to Vice President Kamala Harris's campaign and the exclusive interview driving headlines today.

[15:20:02]

Harris and her running mate, Governor Tim Walz, sat down with our own Dana Bash in their first interview since their White House run began. Now a key point of the questioning focused on Harris's first presidential bid four years ago, and how her positions have changed since then, specifically on fracking and immigration. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My values have not changed. I believe it is very important that we take seriously what we must do to guard against what is a clear crisis in terms of the climate. We can grow and we can increase a thriving clean energy economy without banning fracking. We have laws that have to be followed and enforced that address and deal with people who cross our border illegally, and there should be consequences.

I think the most important and most significant aspect of my policy perspective and decisions is my values have not changed. My value around and what we need to do to secure our border, that value has not changed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEWTON: Now, Harris also added she wants to, quote, turn the page from politics defined by Donald Trump in an answer though, on her day one vision, that answer focused much more on values than specific policies.

We want to bring in our panel for more, "USA Today" White House reporter, Francesca Chambers, and CNN political analyst Julian Zelizer.

Thank you to both of you.

You know, so much pressure on Vice President Harris to actually do this interview. I just want to recap from two quick headlines. So, "The New York Times": Kamala Harris TV interview was a solid first effort. "The Washington Examiner": Kamala Harris took 39 days to say nothing at all.

I mean, perhaps given the political views of both newspapers, not a surprise, but, Francesca, first to you, what do you make of the response to this? And did she really meet what was a low bar that was set?

FRANCESCA CHAMBERS, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, USA TODAY: Well, so far, the response has been that she came out there. She was competent, she didn't have some of the problems she had in prior interviews. If you remember, the Lester Holt interview didn't go particularly very well for her earlier in her vice presidency. So, not -- not getting those kinds of reviews this time, she answered questions about some of her policies where Dana pressed her on those, we've got clear answers than we had to date on fracking, immigration and other things.

But, of course, there's a whole host of other issues that reporters would like to ask her about and that voters would like to hear about her policies on.

NEWTON: Yeah, Julian, I'm curious to hear from you, given the fact that there was such a buildup to this, right? And then when she actually met the moment, it was -- it was a bit vague on policy.

JULIAN ZELIZER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. So, it's not totally surprising. I mean, candidates are in a position where they speak broadly and speak in generalities, or they get very specific and then they're attacked on the specifics. So I think the vice president is just trying to actually control the timing of the rollout, including an interview like this and, you know, staying in the zone that she wants for this moment in the campaign.

I don't have any doubt she has specifics. I just don't think she felt strategically this is the time to roll them out.

NEWTON: And that is a good point. The campaign wants to remain in control.

I want you to listen now to J.D. Vance. He joined CNN this morning. Here's how he thought the interview went.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She is the sitting vice president of the United States. If she wants to tackle the affordability crisis or close down the southern border, she should be doing it now. And I think it takes a lot of shame -- shamelessness I should say, to be able to stare at the American people's eyes and say, I'm going to fix your problems now, when I've already been in power for three-and-a-half years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEWTON: I'm not sure shame quite hits it. But I will say, it is a very, very fine line, right? That she did her best to try and praise Joe Biden and the administration that she is currently a part of, but also wants to try and turn the page. I mean, Francesca, what does she need to do in the days to come? Of

course, we got the debate on September 10. But again, it's pretty risky, right? Leaving it to the debate?

CHAMBERS: Well, in terms of strategy for her campaign, do they want to put more meat on the bones, so to speak, with those policies and then run the risk potentially of disaffected Republicans, independent voters, maybe not liking what she has to say about those issues?

And she has said that she will talk more about her economic policies, lay more of that agenda out at the same time, some of her outside advisers I've talked to you, have warned that because of this shorten campaign, you're not going to see a website full details on every economic policy issue that you would see as you would have seen in campaigns in the past because there's simply not time for that.

[15:25:05]

So it's really unclear at this point how many more details we're going to get on the policies that she would pursue if she were elected president.

NEWTON: Now, Julian, is that risky? I mean, a reminder that people begin early voting in a few weeks and that includes places like Pennsylvania, which are so important to both campaigns.

ZELIZER: Of course, there's a risk and there's a risk that you open the door to your opponent, former President Trump, to frame the answers for you, to essentially suggests what you're for, rather than you saying what you're for.

I would say last night, she did say something specific about immigration. He talked about the border control bill, which the Republicans voted down, and said she would sign it.

And I think the same questions would be fair for the former president, who also, if you listen doesn't really give specifics. He gives promises. And often they're inconsistent, such as on reproductive rights, and often, they include things that aren't true.

So I think it's -- there's a danger, too, for the Republicans to go too deep on this. It's a little like the age question. It could be turned against them very quickly.

NEWTON: Yeah. And it's interesting that you do mention reproductive rights and the IVF promise. I mean, Trump made quite a promise that it would appeal to people in both parties, but we've seen Trump make major health care promises that he knows are politically popular. And as you point out, Julian, just doesn't go through with it.

In 2016, he repeatedly said there would be insurance for everybody and we know what happened after he took office. And in fact, some people believe that some of those health care protections were stripped from Americans.

So getting back to this entire quagmire that the former president has now gotten them into, Francesca, do you think this is smart politically? Because look, he is doing very well in the polls by any measure, this is a tied race and perhaps he feels like trying to bring out these promises will bring them over the line.

CHAMBERS: Well, abortion rights is consistently been the issue that Vice President Harris has been strongest on. She's the one in the Biden administration who took the lead on that following the Supreme Court ruling. And so, in a race where suburban women will be very important to whoever wins, he's clearly trying to counter her on that.

But the Harris campaign is pushing back hard on that. They had a press call today. They're going to be launching a 50-stop tour that will hit the battleground areas. And it really putting their surrogates to work on those the vice president herself has to campaign in battleground states right now, and having them go on these stops such as her husband or a Gwen Walz, her campaign manager, et cetera, to try and keep this issue in her position on it at the forefront of voters' minds.

NEWTON: Yeah, that's right, beginning in Florida this week. We will hear a lot more from VP Harris on reproductive rights.

So, Francesca Chambers, Julian Zelizer, good to see you both. Thanks so much. Have a great weekend.

Now, coming up for us, what we could expect to see from the meeting between U.S. President Biden and Chinese President Xi. A phone call between the two is in the works and maybe even in-person talks before Biden's term ends in January.

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[15:31:31]

NEWTON: U.S. national security adviser Jake Sullivan met with Chinese President Xi Jinping on Thursday, ending a three-day visit to Beijing which was meant to try and improve strain lines of communication. He says he's committed to a, quote, stable, healthy relationship with the U.S., a line he has often repeated.

Sullivan has hinted that President's Biden and Xi may hold a phone call backed in the coming weeks. Sullivan addressed one of those flashpoints for potential conflict, the growing number of confrontations between China and -- between Chinese and Philippine ships, in fact, in the South China Sea.

CNN's Ivan Watson explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Collisions, water cannons, and screaming matches involving sailors armed with a knife and axes. A spree of incidents and collisions in the last several days adding new tensions to months of skirmishes between China and close U.S. ally, the Philippines, in contested waters of the South China Sea. A David and Goliath struggle CNN witnessed firsthand earlier this

year.

And as you may see, there is a large Chinese coast guard ship directly in front of this Philippines Coast Guard vessel.

Growing concerns that one of these confrontations in the South China Sea -- could spiral out of control.

DR. RAHMAN YAACOB, SOUTHEAST ASIA SECURIYT EXPERT, LOWY INSTITUTE: Are we going to see a military conflict between the Philippines and Chinese? Could be.

WATSON: The confrontations revolve around several contested reefs and shoals. Most of them are located well within the exclusive economic zone of the Philippines and as you can clearly see, much further away from mainland China.

Beijing places the blame squarely on the Philippines.

LIN JIAN, SPOKESPERSON, CHINESE FOREIGN MINISTRY: We urge certain individuals in the Philippines to start going further down the path of stirring up trouble and making provocations.

WATSON: Meanwhile, the Philippine president issued this warning back in May.

PRESIDENT FERDINAND MARCOS JR., PHILLIPINES: If a Filipino citizen is killed by a willful, that -- that is, I think very, very close to what we define as an act of war. And therefore, we will respond accordingly.

WATSON: Washington has a mutual defense treaty with Manila.

At a meeting with the Philippine armed forces chief this week, a U.S. Navy commander suggested U.S. ships could get directly involved in the maritime dispute.

SAMUEL PAPARO, U.S. INDO-PACIFIC COMMAND COMMANDER: Escort of one vessel to the other is an entirely reasonable option within our mutual defense treaty among this close alliance between what -- between the two -- the two of us.

WATSON: However, during a visit to Beijing on Thursday, President Biden's National Security Council advisor called for de-escalation with the People's Republic of China.

SULLIVAN: Nobody is looking for a crisis, not the Philippines, not the United States and we hope not the PRC.

WATSON: But things can get very unpredictable very quickly when large ships play a dangerous game of chicken on the high seas.

Ivan Watson, CNN, Hong Kong.

(END VIDEOTAPE) NEWTON: We want to dig deeper on all of this.

Jamie Metzl, a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council and former staffer on the National Security Council during the Clinton administration.

[15:35:02]

And, Jamie, you will not be offended if I call you an old China hand. I know that. So we are looking for some direction here as we continue --

JAMIE METZL, SENIOR FELLOW, ATLANTIC COUNCIL: Yeah.

NEWTON: to try and really track this relationship.

Now, in Sullivan's meetings, the Chinese foreign minister called U.S. tariffs intended to boost American manufacturing, quote, an excuse for protectionism. You wrote on X this morning, like Japan in the 1930s and Russia today, the Chinese government seems to be preparing -- preparing its economy for war.

What do you mean by that?

METZL: What I mean is the way modern economies and the way our global trade works today is that countries specialize in different things. And what China is trying to do is to build essentially all of global production inside of China. That's why it has massive overproduction, which is in way its effort to undermine industries, everybody else, and it's trying to basically sanctions proof its economy as it builds up its military, builds up its nuclear arsenal.

And maybe this is not an illogical action for China to take, but my view is for the rest still, the world, certainly for Western democracies, Japan, Korea, and others, and we shouldn't just be standing by while China builds up its effort to go to war with us, we should be looking at our actions and our trade relationships with China. And unfortunately, for a few decades now, we've been in this age of global because China is being so aggressive across the board, because it seems to be preparing for war, we need to be reevaluating our entire relationship with China, including our trade relationship.

NEWTON: And yet, it is the second-largest economy in the world. And we talk about protectionism, Canada following the U.S. footsteps and imposing 100 percent tariff on Chinese-made electric vehicles. This goes to your point that they're over producing may try and dump those cars in places like the E.U. and the U.S. They've all joined in on those tariffs.

What do you see as the risks and the rewards in this kind of an economy? Because, you know, this issue of decoupling from China has been out there for a few years now?

METZL: Right. So, certainly, there are risks across the board. For China, they have clearly made a decision that they're willing to face a trade war with the rest of the world in order to basically boost their economy and boost their manufacturing at the expense of everybody else.

For the rest of us, if we don't react, shame on us. I mean, I'm a Democrat, but I think that president Trump wasn't entirely wrong when he said, hey China has been behaving in this inappropriate way, but we have let them do it. And certainly for past decades, there was an idea that if we opened up our economies, if we traded with China, China would evolve in a way similar to how Germany or Japan or Korea and others have evolved over time.

But that just hasn't happened. What instead, what's happened is China has played our openness against us, and that's why there's a growing awareness among Democrats and Republicans alike, and not just in the United States. You mentioned these other countries now that China is abusing the international trade system and forcing the rest of the world for our own good to build the kind of walls that nobody wants. Because when we have tariffs, that is certainly attacks on us in the United States. And so, as I said before, the rest of the world is going to need to come together to balance China. And I hope we can do that effectively.

NEWTON: And the Biden administration has been trying with limited success, I would add, in trying to do this pivot. Biden, apparently, there'll be at least a phone call, maybe even a face to face. How do you think that should be handled by the White House?

METZL: Well, these face-to-face meetings and phone calls and just all communication are very, very much welcome. China and the United States are the two most significant in many ways, countries in the world. And we have a lot of overlapping interests, so we need to be communicating with each other.

The same time, we just need to be clear that the kind of aggression that you just reported on in the South China sea, China just this past week, violated with a fighter jet Japanese airspace, extreme aggression in the Taiwan strait, essentially supporting the Russian military, the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

These are just unacceptable behaviors and the rest of the world needs to push back. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be talking, we have to be talking. We spoke to the Soviets during the Cold War. And even if there is a new Cold War emerging between China and the West, we need to do everything possible to maintain our lines of communication and have off-ramps because I don't think this is the best path for China.

[15:40:04]

It's probably not the best path for the West.

And we need to give China an opportunity to change its ways, stop this kind of terrible aggression, and rejoin in many ways, or join community of nations working together to build a better future for everyone.

NEWTON: And that panda diplomacy obviously symbolic, but still significant in its own way. Jamie Metzl, we'll have to leave it there. Have a great weekend.

Appreciate it.

METZL: Thanks.

NEWTON: Coming up for us, Labor Day weekend, travel madness. But if you're hitting the roads, you are in for the cheapest Labor Day gas prices, isn't that great, in years.

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[15:43:51]

NEWTON: So if you're in the United States, you may be making your final preparations for Labor Day travel, you would not be alone. Millions of people are flooding airports and highways right at this hour. A record 17 million travelers are expected to hit the nation's airports.

But if you are traveling by car, good news, gas prices at their lowest levels since 2021. And CNN's business editor-at-large and host of "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS", Richard Quest, joins me now.

Richard, you've taken things outside for summer Friday. I noticed you didn't take me, but okay. You are not the only one out there though.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSIENSS EDITOR AT LARGE: No. And so, driving season, prices all lower for fuel, and there's an entire range of reasons. Number one, supply has been fairly steady despite threats in the Gulf, in the Red Sea and to shipping lanes, supply has remained steady and therefore geopolitical pressures, whilst they are worrisome have not come to fruition.

Secondly, the Petroleum Strategic Reserve, the Biden administration has consistently released reserves into the market, which has taken the pressure off prices.

[15:45:06]

Of course, Donald Trump is making a big deal about that in the election campaigns. Put it all together, and you have the basic plea prices under control at the moment.

But don't be fooled for one second, Paula, it would only take a serious eruption in the Gulf, and to threaten supplies and may be off to the races again.

NEWTON: Absolutely. I've actually been surprised at the resiliency given all the geopolitical risks out there. But I digress because Richard, you're outside by the Brooklyn Bridge today to talk summer tourism and infrastructure.

And I'm actually intrigued by this. You got to speak to the great, great grandson of the chief engineer of that bridge.

QUEST: Yeah, we -- absolutely. We take it for granted. There it is, magnificence in all its splendor, the Brooklyn Bridge, and it's a great thing to walk across order to ride a bike across.

We take it for granted, but when this was built in the last century, in the 19th century, when it was built and then opened, it was actually a marveling of engineering because New York and Brooklyn were two different cities. And the technology to build this thing was not really known. They made it up they went along.

This is Kriss Roebling. He is the -- I think it's a great, great, great grandson of the original engineer whose son then took it over, whose aunt (ph) took -- have a listen and it'll become clear.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISS ROEBLING, DESCENDANT OF BROOKLYN BRIDGE CHIEF ENGINEER: The aspect of how they were going into the dark when they created it, because most structures that are so ambitious and grand are created with immense levels of safety nets, which is simply previous knowledge. And so much of this bridge was built in designed figuring out the science and the technology behind it as they were doing it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: So, Paula, the techno -- basically, they used to drop the divers or the construction workers in big caissons to the ground watertight compartments, they dug away the foundations they then created this span and that's why tonight's "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" comes to you from Pier 17, one of the most popular places in New York to visit tourist attractions in the city, and with this spectacular view of the Brooklyn Bridge.

Now, where are you, Paula? When are you heading, and have an ice cream for me.

NEWTON: There's still time, Richard, I'm going to finish this show and you never know. I could pop up there.

I want to -- I want to ask you. I don't have a lot of time --

QUEST: I'm buying.

NEWTON: Excellent. You always do, I have to say. You're kind that way.

I'm always curious, the great, great grandson. Did he go into the family business? An engineer? No?

QUEST: I'm sorry. I didn't hear it.

NEWTON: Did Chris, the great, great grand son.

QUEST: No, he's not.

NEWTON: No, he didn't?

QUEST: No. No, no, no. And he was at pains to point out to me, not only as he not in the family business, but he's not a geek and he doesn't live by the Brooklyn Bridge, and he doesn't live for the Brooklyn Bridge. He just enjoys the Brooklyn Bridge and he wasn't strange.

NEWTON: Oh, that is so good to hear because I'm not sure if you were going to answer that question in the next hour in your show, I will be watching. I'll have you know, I watched -- I walked the Brooklyn Bridge with my daughter just on Sunday. So I'm happy to see it again.

Richard, it was great. It's fantastic.

Richard Quest, have a great show. We will all be watching, and you can catch more, of course, of Richard on his trip on that Brooklyn Bridge, Brooklyn Bridge. You don't want to miss it. Apparently, there'll be ice cream at the top of the hour of "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS".

Okay. After the break for us, fake MAGA influencers. We spoke to people on social media who are having their photos stolen and then used to endorse Donald Trump, and conspiracy theories.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:50:22]

NEWTON: So several European fashion influencers have become the faces of some fake pro-Trump accounts on X. That's not because the influencers actually support Trump or have anything to do with him, but their images were stolen and then reposted to promote pro-Trump agendas and conspiracy theories.

Katie Polglase reports now on some of those influencers and the fact that they are now outraged.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATIE POLGLASE, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Debbie is heading home from work in Luxembourg, Northern Europe, crossing the border into Germany, she races back to her son. And, of course, Lou.

But Debbie's day doesn't end there. She's also a professional model. Her image not only her identity, but her source of income, helping support her and her son.

But it's been stolen, used in a pro-Trump account on X, attracting nearly 30,000 followers in less than six months.

Here is Luna.

DEBBIE NEDERLOF, MODEL & SOCIAL MEDIA MANAGER: Yes. That's very crazy.

POLGLASE: And when you see these views, you know, it's saying, vote for Trump in 2024, what's your reaction?

NEDERLOF: My -- to be honest, what the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) was my reaction. That was my reaction because I have nothing to do with the United States with Trump -- the political things over there. POLGLASE: And if people following this account believe that this is you, what do you want to say to them?

NEDERLOF: That it's definitely not me. Definitely. It was never me and it will never be me. And they have to un-follow, please.

POLGLASE: In fact, Debbie is not alone. In partnership with the Centre for Information Resilience, CNN found nearly 60 fake Trump supporting accounts.

And from these, we identified nearly a dozen women, real women, from across Europe, from Denmark to the Netherlands, and as far away as Russia, whose identities are being used in accounts telling voters, American voters, to vote for Trump in the upcoming U.S. election.

POLGLASE: Let's take a look at some of these accounts, like Alina (ph), 33, and voting for Trump. But she's not. She's really Kamilla from Denmark.

KAMILLA BROBERG, INSTAGRAM INFLUENCER: I think it's weird. Anything that can discriminate other people on my account, because it's my little universe. I don't think it's fair.

POLGLASE: And this one, Eva. She even has a verified blue tick, which is supposed to weed out fake accounts.

NERIAH TELLERUP, INSTAGRAM INFLUENCER: You feel very taken advantage of, also because it's kind of my image. I don't want to think people think that I do what those profiles sometimes are promoting.

POLGLASE: We ran the suspicious X photos through a reverse image search engine and found they were lifted from Instagram posts.

Certain patterns emerged. The fake accounts repost each other. It's a sign of a coordinated campaign.

Here, several of the fake accounts post the exact same wording. If you're voting for the man who survived an assassination attempt, I want to follow you. It's another sign the accounts are linked.

And that's not all. Some of the accounts manipulated the images of these women. Have a look at Debbie's post, the original on Instagram, and now the fake one on X. Her hat now reads, Make America Great Again.

Look at this t-shirt before, and then Trump 2024.

For now, we don't know who is behind all these accounts. But the former U.S. National Security Council spokeswoman who also used to investigate fake accounts for Twitter told us this.

EMILY HORNE, FORMER GLOBAL HEAD OF POLICY, TWITTER: I don't think it's unreasonable to ask questions about could there be a state actor involved.

We know that there are multiple state actors who have been using social media to try to sow disinformation campaigns in the run up to the 2024 election.

POLGLASE: But regardless, the accounts are reaching influential politicians.

Doug Mastriano, a Republican state senator for Pennsylvania, follows Debbie's fake account.

CNN contacted the senator about the account, but has not heard back.

Back in Germany, Debbie is shocked and upset that her image is being used in this way.

With President Trump now back on X and Elon Musk, the owner of X, throwing his weight behind him, fake pro-Trump content appears to be flourishing.

[15:55:02]

Silencing the real women affected.

Once again, women's rights at the very heart of this presidential election.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

POLGLASE (on camera): What this investigation really showed was that the verification of accounts of content on X has plummeted massively under Musk's leadership of the platform. We did, of course, reached out to Musk to the platform about these accounts for this investigation. We did not receive a response, but we did notice interestingly, that just in the 24 hours or so before publishing, the majority of the accounts had been taken down. It's also worth noting that at this stage there is no indication the Trump campaign are behind them -- Paula.

NEWTON: Our thanks to Katie Polglase there. And I want to thank you for joining me today. I'm Paula Newton.

"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS", summer Friday, coming up.