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Protests Grow Across Israel After Recovery Of 6 Dead Hostages; Thousands Of Hotel Workers Strike For Better Pay, Conditions; Israeli Protesters Light Fires In The Middle Of Highway In Tel Aviv; Dozens Hurt, Including Five Children, After Russian Attack In Kharkiv; Photos Of Influencers Used In Fake Pro-Trump Accounts; Heart Recipient Fights To Give Donor System Urgent Care. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired September 01, 2024 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:31]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Alex Marquardt in today for Fredricka Whitfield.

We begin this hour with breaking news out of the Middle East. What you're seeing right there dramatic developments in Israel. Chaotic scenes on the streets of Tel Aviv right now as tens of thousands of Israeli protesters have taken to the streets to demand, yet again, that their government agree to a ceasefire and hostage deal in Gaza.

There is a sense of urgency now after the IDF revealed an operation in Gaza on Saturday had recovered the bodies of six hostages in an underground tunnel in Rafah in southern Gaza.

CNN's Nic Robertson and Kevin Liptak are both with me now with the latest,

Nic, I want to go to you first. You have been live all night at these demonstrations in Tel Aviv. They have appeared to have been ramping up. What's happening there right now?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, this is the main highway. The north-south highway that goes around Tel Aviv. It's a four-lane highway. And as you can see, the northbound direction is completely shut at the moment. Protesters here, this banner they've got up says enough to the government of destruction. It's their message to the government that they want to get the hostages back home.

And I'm just going to ask Keith to spin around with me this way because the protesters are also spraying their messages on the wall here. They want to get their words heard by the government. And this is how they're doing it tonight. They're spraying it on the walls. They're lighting fires in the streets. But this is peaceful.

And I want to show you right now just how and why it's peaceful because the police are just sitting back up the road here on horseback. You can just see them there. Shadows with that blue and red lights. They're not confronting the crowd. And it's the same with the police at the other end of the protests around there. They're not confronting the crowd. They're just containing it. They bought in a big water cannon before to put up one of these fires but they're just standing back.

The protesters have been telling the police, this isn't about you, we're not confronting you, we just want to get a message to bring the hostages back home. This has been a protest that's been all over the streets of Tel Aviv this evening. The organizers say as many as 300,000 people have been out on the streets. Now we can't verify that. But there was a time early this evening where we were walking for almost a good 20 minutes towards half an hour out through the crowds on the streets.

So very, very big number of protesters. Numbers that our teams here who cover this regularly week after week after week haven't seen it. I was speaking to a couple of young people here. And they said, look, we don't normally come out. We normally just stay at home, but we decided to come out. And you think your protests are really going to convince the prime minister right now to change his tactics with Hamas, which is what they want, get the hostages home, and they said actually we don't think he will.

And I said, do you think all of this is going to change his government and bring down his government, and they also said that they didn't think it would happen. But this is they feel the only place that they can get their voice and on this big loud protest, that's why they feel it. There's another thing people said I found interesting. They said, look, we're really angry but tonight is not the night for anger. It's frustration.

It's this deep sense of frustration that the government is ignoring the majority of people in the country. Polling says about two-thirds of the people in the country want the hostages home, want a deal at any cost. So there's that anger, but people saying tonight it's -- we're putting it out as frustration because tonight is a really sad day and it's not a day for anger. It's a day for frustration. That's what they were telling us -- Alex.

MARQUARDT: Nic, that frustration is not just being heard on the streets. We're also hearing it from the Israeli defense minister, Yoav Gallant. What's he saying?

ROBERTSON: Yes, he has accused the prime minister, he did this at a cabinet meeting last week. He accused him that micromanaging the negotiations with Hamas, dictating where IDF troops could or could not pull back to, determining where they should be located on one of the key sticking points along the Philadelphi Corridor, along the border between Gaza and Egypt.

[16:05:03]

And again, cabinet tonight, the defense minister saying that prime minister is in essence wrecking the negotiations, wrecking the chances of getting the hostages home, wrecking the chances of saving the lives of as many as 60 or more hostages who are still believed to be alive and held in Gaza, wrecking those chances because of his political decisions, that both the defense minister and other senior figures in the intelligence community, David Barnea, the head of Mossad, the security here, have said that the prime minister, they believe, is not acting in the best interest of the country.

He's acting in his own interests and that his tactics are not going to get the hostages home. So these are deep, deep divisions -- Alex.

MARQUARDT: Yes. The temperature really being dialed up on the Israeli prime minister.

Nic Robertson, on the streets of Tel Aviv, thanks very much.

Kevin Liptak, we've also heard now from the U.S. president and vice president. They've made statements saying a number of things, but also because one of these six Israeli hostages in fact was an American citizen, Hersh Goldberg-Polin, and we and we heard his family speaking recently.

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we saw them speaking at the Democratic National Convention, and it was quite a powerful moment. I was in the arena for it. You could hear a pin drop when they were speaking. It was really kind of one of the only moments of the entire convention that the entire audience's attention was directed very much on the stage.

And so I think this is hitting, you know, White House officials and President Biden and the vice president pretty hard. We do know that both President Biden and Vice President Harris have spoken with the parents of Hersh Goldberg-Polin today, expressing their condolences, of course, and demonstrating and voicing to them that they aren't alone as they enter this sort of terrible tragedy.

President Biden said in a statement yesterday that he was devastated and outraged. He went on to say, I have worked tirelessly to bring their beloved Hersh safely to them and I'm heartbroken by the news of this death. He says it was as tragic as it was reprehensible. And he says, make no mistake, Hamas leaders will pay for these crimes. And that's an interesting line. It's essentially a threat that the U.S. will retaliate for this death.

Whether that's by American force or some other force I think remains to be seen. But it is a notable line. When we talk about these hostage talks, it was interesting. We did hear from President Biden just last night after these hostages were found below Rafah saying that he thinks that we are still on the verge of an agreement. He says he thinks they can close the deal. So the president still very much optimistic.

I don't think there's any question, though, that these deaths add a layer of complication to this hostage negotiation. When you talk to American officials, they do say that this raises some questions about how serious Hamas is about reaching an agreement. And certainly they acknowledged the pressure that is now being applied to Prime Minister Netanyahu and certainly we're seeing that playing out on the streets today. MARQUARDT: Yes. And what we've heard from Biden and U.S. officials is

that all that remains are the details, the implementation, the -- essentially the choreography, but it's clear that there are still some significant issues that need to be worked out between Israel and Hamas. So it will be very interesting to see where those talks go in the coming days.

Kevin Liptak, Nic Robertson, thank you both.

I want to discuss this further with Leon Panetta. He served as defense secretary and CIA director under President Obama. And he was the White House chief of staff under President Clinton.

Director Panetta, thank you so much for being with us. I just want to get your reaction to what we're seeing in terms of these massive protests on the streets of Tel Aviv tonight.

LEON PANETTA, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, there's no question that Israelis are reflecting the anger and frustration of not being able to get any kind of temporary ceasefire that can allow for the exchange of the hostages. You know, we've seen these negotiations go on and on.

There's an element of hope that somehow a ceasefire can be achieved but unfortunately what we saw in the deaths of the six hostages is the fact that no matter how much everybody hopes that we can get this done, it isn't happening and the chances are that more hostages may be sacrificed.

MARQUARDT: Without question Hamas is responsible for the deaths of these and other hostages. And yet tonight we are hearing criticism of Netanyahu from the people on the street, from his own defense minister, but notably not from U.S. officials.

Why do you think that is?

PANETTA: Well, when something like this happens and hostages are found dead because they were shot Hamas, it's a little bit difficult to put any of that burden on Israel. But look, the reality is that if we are going to get any kind of breakthrough here, it requires Netanyahu and it requires Hamas.

[16:10:04]

It just seems to me that if they can agree to a temporary halt in order to allow for polio shots to take place in Gaza, they ought to be able to come to some kind of agreement for a temporary pause to allow for the exchange of hostages.

MARQUARDT: But this temporary pause would only see the release of around 33 hostages we believe. And then there will be a second phase in which more hostages would have to be released. But that negotiation would have to take place in those first six weeks.

What do you what do you think the U.S. would try to do to make sure that a temporary pause if it happens turns into a permanent ceasefire without the war starting back up again?

PANETTA: Well, look, the bet right now is that if we can in the very least get that first step put in place that it can create the atmosphere to try to allow both the parties to be able to move forward and ultimately achieved some kind of permanent peace there. That's a lot of hope.

I would be satisfied if they could at least get a temporary pause in order to bring the hostages home. That should be the focus right now because right now if the war continues and there is no ceasefire, what I really worry about is that the remaining hostages will also be found dead.

MARQUARDT: And that is certainly something we're hearing from inside Israel as well.

Director Panetta, what would you like to see President Biden, the White House, his administration, do in terms of perhaps stepping up pressure on the various sides to get this deal off the ground? What would you recommend?

PANETTA: Well, I think that President Biden has been pushing as hard as he can. Obviously our negotiators have been deeply involved trying to find some kind of solution here that will allow both Israel and Hamas to agree to the ceasefire. I think there is an opportunity here because of what happened. The fact that six hostages were found shot and that it creates almost an aura of hopelessness right now with regards to the other hostages.

And I think that this is a moment in time to push, to get at least some kind of temporary ceasefire put in place.

MARQUARDT: I want to ask you about something President Biden said in his statement. He said in part make no mistake. Hamas leaders will pay for these crimes. How do you interpret that?

PANETTA: Well, I have to believe that President Biden is reflecting I'm sure the Israelis' attitude that ultimately they are going to make sure that Hamas pays a price, not only for the attack on October 7th, but for the deaths of these hostages. I'm -- I have to assume that what President Biden is doing is giving Israel the opportunity to be able to hit back even harder if there isn't any kind of ceasefire.

MARQUARDT: All right. Former secretary of defense and former CIA director, Leon Panetta, really appreciate your time and your thoughts this evening.

PANETTA: Good to be with you.

MARQUARDT: Back here in the United States, thousands of hotel workers are walking off the job for a multi-day strike. What that could mean for your Labor Day weekend hotel stays.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:18:42] MARQUARDT: Thousands of hotel workers across the country are on strike this Labor Day weekend. They're demanding better pay and better working conditions. This was the scene earlier today in Boston when the walkout began. The strike is impacting hotels all the way to Hawaii.

CNN's Gloria Pazmino is joining me now.

So, Gloria, tell me more about what these workers want?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alex, they say that they want to return to the working conditions that they had before the pandemic. We know that the pandemic so severely impacted the industry and the way that hotels could provide service. Many of these workers, 10,000 of them across several cities in the United States, are asking not just for better wages, but also better conditions.

Specifically one issue that they are focused on is the issue of daily room cleanings. This is a service that many hotels have scaled back on since the pandemic and hotel workers say that they haven't gone back to the way it used to be, which means now it takes them longer to clean these rooms. It takes more people and that some of those staff positions were cut during the pandemic and they haven't been brought back.

So they want better wages, they want better conditions, and ultimately they say that they need a return to certain things that were -- the part of the daily workday before the pandemic that they no longer do.

[16:20:08]

Things like foodservice room service, all of this has changed as a result of the pandemic.

There's 10,000 people that are out on the picket line across several states and three different major hotel chains, including Marriott, Hilton, and the Hyatt. Across at least 23 hotels so far now. Now we did hear back from Hyatt. They told us that they were disappointed that workers have decided to strike but that they are continuing to go to the bargaining table. They said that they are continuing to negotiate for fair contracts and recognize the contributions of Hyatt employees.

Now, as you said, Alex, we are in the middle of a major travel holiday. Labor Day is tomorrow. And we have seen the union unite here, which represents these workers, use this tactic in the past. Several months ago they were out in strike around the July 4th holiday. They have had strikes during major events. The tactic here is, of course, to disrupt the business of these hotels and make a point about how important they are in order to keep these businesses running -- Alex.

MARQUARDT: Gloria Pazmino, thank you so much for all that reporting.

After the break, tens of thousands of Israelis have taken to the streets to demand a hostage and ceasefire deal in Gaza. We will take a look at where those negotiations stand. That's next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:26:00]

MARQUARDT: Happening right now, protesters are starting fires and blocking several lanes on a highway in the Israeli city of Tel Aviv. You can see it right there, tens of thousands in the streets demanding a ceasefire and hostage deal in Gaza.

The bodies of six Israeli hostages, including one who had American citizenship, that were held by Hamas, they were recovered from a tunnel in southern Gaza this weekend. The 23-year-old Israeli American's name was Hersh Goldberg-Polin. Public outrage may further complicate negotiations for a ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas. Those negotiations have been going on feverishly for quite some time.

Joining me now to discuss that is CNN international correspondent Paula Hancocks.

So, Paula, can you give us a sense of where these talks stand? Just yesterday we heard President Biden say that negotiators were on the verge of a deal.

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alex, it's interesting because we have been hearing in recent days and weeks some very optimistic signs from the Biden administration in particular. We know that the working level talks had moved from Cairo to Doha. They were ongoing, and the Biden administration had suggested that they were working on the final details, the nuts and bolts of a particular deal.

But we're certainly not hearing that optimism when it comes two other members of those negotiations. In fact, we have heard that there is some quite public disputes within Israel itself, within the cabinet, between the Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his defense minister Yoav Gallant becoming ever more public after last Thursday at a cabinet meeting. The prime minister said that there should be an Israeli military presence on the border between Egypt and Gaza, according to reports presenting maps to that meeting, to back up his desire and his change in conditions for this particular hostage ceasefire deal.

Now Gallant we have learned has been very against that. He voted against it. There was another cabinet meeting just in recent hours where he slammed the government and the prime minister for putting forward these extra conditions, saying it is a moral disgrace, and he has been saying that if you try and push to have the military in the Philadelphi Corridor, that area, Hamas will reject it. There will be no deal and the hostages will not come home.

So we are seeing at a time of war a very public argument between the prime minister and the defense minister when it comes to getting this deal through, and that is partly why you are seeing so much anger on the streets of Israel -- Alex.

MARQUARDT: And then, Paula, separately in the ongoing humanitarian and health crisis in Gaza, the U.N. now calling for temporary pauses in the fighting, while aid workers tried to treat hundreds of thousands of Palestinian children with a polio vaccine. How is that going?

HANCOCKS: Well, apparently that has held for Sunday, so there has been a temporary pause in the fighting in one part of Gaza. Now this is an effort to vaccinate about 640,000 children. That's about 90 percent of the population of the children in Gaza under the age of 10. They are doing it in three stages. Central Gaza, Northern Gaza, Southern Gaza. And they're hoping that it will last about nine days in all. And they are hoping to be able to vaccinate that amount of children.

Let's listen to what the U.N. said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LOUISE WATERIDGE, UNRWA SENIOR COMMUNICATIONS OFFICER: It's been an extremely complex vaccination campaign. Probably one of the most difficult we've seen in the wild. We have had ongoing bombardment. These have stopped this morning, it's quite quiet now. We are hopeful that this will last throughout the campaign. This is very critical because we simply cannot vaccinate children while they are running for their lives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[16:30:12]

HANCOCKS: And that campaign lasting from today until the 12th of September. Alex.

MARQUARDT: Paula Hancocks in Abu Dhabi, thank you for giving us all the latest.

Devastation in Ukraine's second largest city of Kharkiv after Russian -- Russia bombs residential areas, including -- and then injures dozens of people, including young children.

How Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy is responding? We'll bring that to you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:35:17]

MARQUARDT: Russia has launched yet another round of attacks today against civilian buildings and infrastructure in Kharkiv in the northeastern part of Ukraine.

The strikes injured at least 41 people, including five children after hitting residential buildings and a mall.

It's the latest in a series of very significant Russian attacks this weekend and in the days prior on Ukraine's second largest city and elsewhere.

Search and rescue teams are digging through the rubble to reach victims who may have been trapped under there.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky continued calls for Western allies to step up their military support.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen has more from Kyiv.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Alex.

Yes. Certainly been another pretty devastating day for the city of Kharkiv that, of course, has had so many days where the city has been bombed, where the city has suffered missile attacks as well.

This time, it was an array of munitions, unclear whether it was aerial bombs or missiles that hit the city of Kharkiv. And the Ukrainian say that more than 40 people were injured in those attacks, including several children. There was one area where the rubble was still being cleared well into the evening hours.

And if we look at this week, we could really see an uptick in those Russian aerial attacks. In fact, the city of Kharkiv was also hit on Friday by a massive attack, killing seven people there.

And then, of course, yesterday in the Kharkiv Region, there was another attack, killing two people where the Russians used a massive aerial glide bomb with half a ton of explosives in it.

The Ukrainians, for their part though, appear to be fighting back. They launched a massive drone attack against Russian territory on Sunday as well.

The Russians saying that they shot down almost 160 drones in 15 regions of Russia.

But there were some hits apparently. In fact, an oil refinery in the Moscow area, but then also an energy facility in the city of Tver.

And, of course, as we know, that's pretty remarkable because Tver is well north of Moscow and really far away from a Russian territory.

So the Ukrainians must have used some very long distance drones to achieve that, Alex.

MARQUARDT: Our thanks to Fred Pleitgen in Kyiv.

When we come back, you'll be meeting the European fashion and beauty influencers whose photos were stolen in order to create fake accounts posing as chic American women who support Donald Trump on X, formerly known as Twitter. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:40:19]

MARQUARDT: Several European fashion influencers have become the faces of some fake pro-Trump accounts on X, formerly known as Twitter. Not because the influencers support Trump or have anything to do with him, but their images were stolen and then reposted to promote pro- Trump agenda and conspiracy theories.

As CNN's Katie Polglase reports, some of those influencers are justifiably outraged.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATIE POLGLASE, CNN INVESTIGATIVE PRODUCER (voice-over): Debbie is heading home from work in Luxembourg, Northern Europe. Crossing the border into Germany, she graces back to her son.

And of course Lou. But Debbie's day doesn't end there. She's also a professional model. Her image not only her identity, but her source of income, helping support her and her son.

But it's been stolen, used in a pro-Trump account on X attracting nearly 30,000 followers in less than six months.

Here's Luna.

DEBBIE NEDERLOF, MODEL AND SOCIAL MEDIA MANAGER: Yes. That's very crazy.

POLGLASE: And when you see these views, you know, it's saying vote for Trump in 2024, what's your reaction?

NEDERLOF: My -- to be honest, what the (BLEEP) was my reaction. That was my reaction. Because I have nothing to do with you, the United States with Trump, the political things over there.

POLGLASE: And if people following this account believe that this is you, what do you want to say to them?

NEDERLOF: That it's definitely not me. Definitely, it was never me and it will never be me. And they have to un-follow, please.

POLGLASE: In fact, Debbie is not alone. In partnership with the Center for Information Resilience, CNN found nearly 60 fake Trump supporting accounts.

And from these, we identified nearly a dozen women, real women, from Across Europe, from Denmark to the Netherlands and as far away as Russia whose identities are being used in accounts telling voters, American voters, to vote for Trump in the upcoming U.S. election.

POLGLASE (voice-over): Let's take a look at some of these accounts like Alina (ph), 33, and voting for Trump. But she's not -- she's really Kamilla from Denmark.

KAMILLA BROBERG, INSTAGRAM INFLUENCER: I think it's weird. Anything that can discriminate other people on my account because it's my little universe. I don't think it's fair.

POLGLASE: And this one Eva. She even has a verified blue tick which is supposed to weed out fake accounts.

[16:45:00]

NERIAH TELLERUP, INSTAGRAM INFLUENCER: You feel very taken advantage of, also because it's kind of my image. I don't want to think people think that I do what those profiles sometimes are promoting.

POLGLASE (voice-over): We ran the suspicious ex-photos through a reverse image search engine and found they were lifted from Instagram posts. Certain patterns emerged.

The fake accounts repost each other. It's a sign of a coordinated campaign.

Here, several of the fake accounts post the exact same wording. "If you're voting for the man who survived an assassination attempt, I want to follow you." It's another sign the accounts are linked.

And that's not all. Some of the accounts manipulated the images of these women. Have a look at Debbie's post, the original on Instagram and now the fake one on X. Her hat now reads "Make America Great Again."

Look at this t-shirt, before and then Trump 2024.

For now, we don't know who is behind all these accounts. But the former U.S. National Security Council spokeswoman, who also used to investigate fake accounts for Twitter, told us this.

EMILY HORNE, FORMER GLOBAL HEAD OF POLICY, TWITTER: I don't think it's unreasonable to ask questions about could there be a state actor involved.

We know that there are multiple state actors who have been using social media to try to sow disinformation campaigns in the run-up to the 2024 election.

POLGLASE (voice-over): But regardless, the accounts are reaching influential politicians.

Doug Mastriano, a Republican state senator for Pennsylvania, follows Debbie's fake account. CNN contacted the senator about the account, but has not heard back.

Back in Germany, Debbie is shocked and upset that her image is being used in this way. With President Trump now back on X, and Elon Musk, the owner of X, throwing his weight behind him, fake pro-Trump content appears to be flourishing. Silencing the real women affected.

Once again, women's rights at the very heart of this presidential election.

Katie Polglase, CNN, Trier, Germany.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUARDT: Remarkable reporting there by Katie Polglase.

Over the next few months, Vice President Kamala Harris will be continuing her bid for a shot at the White House. But where does she stand on the topics that matter most to American voters?

On Monday, a two-hour special for "The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper" will examine five key issues from both the candidates. And one major issue is immigration.

CNN's Audie Cornish takes a look at the unique hurdles that Harris faced while dealing with immigration.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Her first official trip abroad as Vice President, Guatemala, in June of 2021.

She talked about the role of women and economic development there. But Harris also delivered a stark message.

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I want to be clear to folks in this region who are thinking about making that dangerous trek to the United States- Mexico border. Do not come. Do not come.

The United States will continue to enforce our laws and secure our border.

CORNISH: "Do not come. Do not come." What was her reaction to how that was received?

ASHLEY ETIENNE, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR TO VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: It wasn't well received coming from the daughter of immigrants and a Black woman.

So, that was a moment in which I think we realized that, OK, we have to talk about these things differently.

Although it's the company line, we can't tow that line in the same way that Joe Biden can.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUARDT: For more on this two-hour special, watch Fight for the White House on Monday night starting at 8:00 P.M. with Kamala Harris and 9:00 P.M. with Donald Trump on The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper.

Coming up, three years ago, a heart transplant saved this man's life. Now he's working to improve the way that organs are donated and transplanted here in the United States.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:50:47] MARQUARDT: When Tristan Mace thought he had pneumonia three years ago, the last thing he expected from an ER visit was undergoing a heart transplant. But within minutes, the young tech entrepreneur went on a ventilator as his failing heart deprived vital organs of blood.

Mace's condition was so dire that he shot to the top of a transplant list and had a new heart just two days later.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you hear it? Does it sound good?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: From this experience, Mace and his wife, Jordan, realized that the transplant system, in this country, was also in need of urgent care. Now they want to make it more equitable and efficient for patients.

Joining me now are Jordan and Tristan Mace, the co-founders of Valeos, a non-profit working to improve connections between transplant centers and data from potential recipients.

Tristan, Jordan, thank you so much for joining me today on this really, really important topic.

Tristan, you were in the hospital for 48 days recovering. How and when did you realize that real improvements were needed? What was that moment like?

TRISTAN MACE, UNDERWENT A HEART TRANSPLANT IN 2021: Yes. So for us, most of our transplant experience actually was post-transplant, where typically patients would get evaluated, pre-transplant, have education through that process. For us, everything came after the fact.

[16:55:12]

And so as we were asking questions, trying to better understand what it looked like in terms of which medications were the best for me, I took 23 medications.

What are the best ways that I can improve my care, too? And, ultimately, well, I need another transplant. How long would I live?

We were asking other patients this, and finding out that patients and providers were also asking the same things. And so we looked at this and said, more than a hundred thousand Americans are awaiting a transplant in the United States.

Currently, 17 people die every day while waiting on that list. How do we make that better? How do we increase the quantity of transplants? How do you reduce the waitlist time and improve access and equity for all patients?

MARQUARDT: So then you started this organization, Valeos.

Jordan, what is the organization doing specifically to bring some of those changes for that Tristan mentioned?

Where do you think the greatest inequities are in the current system?

JORDAN MACE, TRISTAN MACE'S WIFE: I would say the greatest inequities come from the fact that not everybody has the same level of access. We're very fortunate that when Tristan went down, he went down very quickly and he wasn't able to make any of these decisions.

I made the decisions on behalf of him and on behalf of our family. And I was able to make an educated decision because of great insurance, great access, great care. We're mindful of the fact that the way that we look in our background sometimes can affect whether or not you are in the right spot at the right time. We want to fix that.

MARQUARDT: And you have a tech background that you are using to really help push this organization forward.

Can you explain, Tristan, how you think that this is going to benefit in practical terms future recipients?

T. MACE: Yes. So for recipients themselves, so much of this is around your quality and your outcome.

And so we think about this twofold. One is candidates who are on the list, and even before that. So we think about that process for them. What does that referral look like to a transplant center? How long does that evaluation work? Can we get as many of those patients ultimately transplanted with great care?

And for people privileged like myself who are recipients, how do we improve outcomes for them? And so much of that is around fostering collaboration and really around the technology and the data with these different transplant centers and industry and other groups within the transplant ecosystem.

So really bringing together in a collaborative fashion and being able to make data more accessible for them to drive research and innovation.

MARQUARDT: In terms of the scale of the issue that we're looking at, there are now more than 100,000 people on the transplant wait list here in the United States.

Jordan, what have you heard from patients who are either still waiting or have waited for a very long time for this potentially life-saving transplant?

J. MACE: It's so scary to not know what's going to happen. And you don't know when that call is coming or if that call is coming.

We're very mindful that our experience was very atypical. He went down on a Friday night, he got listed on Saturday, got the first heart on Saturday night.

It was a bad match unfortunately. We went back on the list. He got the heart Sunday. It was put in his body on Monday. That is so unique. That is so atypical from what most people experience.

And we're mindful that the U.S. organ transplant system was created before the internet. So there's a lot of opportunity for growth.

And right now when there's an average about 70 physical phone calls required to get an organ from point A to point B, and into the right person, we know there's a place for us to do better. And that's what patients are looking for is they want the latest, the greatest technology that's helping you get your sweater from Portland to Kansas City. We want to get your organ in the same spot.

MARQUARDT: Yes. I mean, that's -- it's certainly -- it's an app's comparison. And the expectation should be there.

In terms of what the U.S. government is doing, last year the Biden administration announced an overhaul of the transplant program to help with those wait times that you were describing as well as wasted donations.

Tristan, what do you hope to see as part of this revamp by the U.S. government?

T. MACE: Yes. So in terms of the government side, one, we certainly look at outcomes. We look at the quantity of patients being transplanted. We look at milestones for them.

Functionally though, we look at this as having competition. And so we've had an incumbent for the last 40 years. We're excited to have some of the best of the best being able to now participate in the work in transplant ecosystem. Foster that collaboration that we're excited to see.

And we're also excited for government to have some additional oversight in this. Be able to be more active participants and work closely with the community as well to really drive these outcomes for everybody.

MARQUARDT: And, Jordan, we only have a couple seconds left. But in your view, do you think that there's enough awareness around becoming an organ donor?

J. MACE: I think that there is some, but there's always more to be done. And we became organ donor registered at the DMV. We would encourage anyone that's thinking about it to consider what it might actually do for somebody else. Because that heart is the reason that he was able to meet his son.

MARQUARDT: Jordan and Tristan Mace, co-founders of Valeos. thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story. You two are doing remarkable work that certainly will help so many others out there understand this ecosystem and what needs to be done to fix it.

So really appreciate you coming on.

J. MACE: Thank you.

MARQUARDT: And thank you all so much for joining me today. I'm Alex Marquardt. CNN NEWSROOM with Jessica Dean starts next.

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