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CNN International: GBI: At Least 4 Killed In Georgia High School Shooting; Harris Unveiling New Economic Policies For Small Businesses; New CNN Polls: Tight Races In Six Swing States; Netanyahu: If We Leave Philadelphi Corridor, We Lose Leverage On Hamas To Return Hostages. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired September 04, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:43]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: We are following breaking news out of the state of Georgia. And it is a sad, familiar story in this country with familiar images, kids leave their school, squad cars surround it, flashing lights, police tactical teams on the move and law enforcement press conference.

Police have now confirmed at least four people are dead, nine hospitalized after a school shooting at Apalachee High School in Winder, Georgia. It's about an hour east of Atlanta. The Barrow County sheriff says there are multiple injuries as well.

A law enforcement source says the suspect is believed to be a 14-year- old male. That suspect is alive and now in custody.

For now, those are the details. We know the sheriff has said he will brief reporters again in an hour. We should note Vice President Kamala Harris is expected to address the shooting just moments from now, as she campaigns in New Hampshire.

We're going to bring you Harris's remarks as soon as they begin, until then CNN is on the ground hearing from students at the school, their accounts just difficult to listen to.

Here's one of them, Janice Martinez.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JANICE MARTINEZ, STUDENT: I heard screaming in everything at first. I thought it was like someone does like playing around in the hallways or something. I thought it was like someone just yelling or something. So I didn't think much of it, but then it got harder. The noise getting louder and louder, and I was like, no, no guys, like I told everybody, get down, get down, because this like you don't joke around with that, you know?

So then like we got we gotten a corner. Some girls started crying and then I was like calm down and then the teacher, which he was shaking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCUITTO: I imagine a lot of them were shaking.

CNN's Josh Campbell joins me now.

A 14-year-olds male gets a gun, kills four people. Do we know how that happened?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Jim. Well, back to school in the United States means back to school shootings. You know, you and I've covered so, many of these and that is what you just mentioned there precisely what law enforcement its trying to get to the bottom of. This 14-year-old -- you know, we were asking all along whether this person was a member of the faculty or students, or perhaps didn't have any association at all.

But it really does strike you to hear that were talking about a 14 year old. Of course, for that age of a person to have a firearm would be unlawful. And so, a major question for police will be how did this individual get access to a firearm? And of course, if we've seen in other cases, there are potential penalties at stake here for whoever that firearm owner was. We've seen that happen in other school shootings as well.

Still don't have information yet from authorities about the motive. That remains under investigation at this hour. We do know from state police in Georgia that the suspect was taken into custody and is alive. And so, if they're able to actually interview this individual, that can then provide some information to perhaps glean some type of motive.

But we're talking about a juvenile, so there are policies and laws in place for how authorities can actually interact with someone of that age. And so that's what law enforcement is trying to get to. We also expect that there will be search warrants executed at the residence of this young individual as well as any online social media footprint, again, try to get to the why just such a trial tragedy here, striking get another American community, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Josh, four dead, nine hospitalized, a number of other injured. Do we know the makeup of the dead?

CAMPBELL: We don't yet have any information on those who actually did pass, whatever law enforcement had their press conference a short time ago, they were very circumspect with any information, which, you know, that obviously can be frustrating for members of the community there, you know, parents who were trying to get a sense of what actually transpired.

But again, law enforcement keeping information close to the vest right now is they have a very large crime scene that they have to get through and then they also have a potential prosecution at stake here as well. So we've seen in other cases so is that when a shooter is taken into custody and is alive and is prosecuted, law enforcement typically very conservative about the information that they will put out. By now, law enforcement certainly knows a lot of these details about the deceased and those who were injured. I would just waiting for them to provide that.

[15:05:02]

And then finally, sort of pointing out that of those that you mentioned, the nine that were hospitalized, we're hearing that there could have been additional injuries, perhaps people who didn't seek medical attention at a hospital, but may have been injured as they were fleeing. You can imagine the chaos when gunshots rang out.

And so this is certainly something that is impacting a lot of individuals. And then as we've seen in so many of these shootings as well that you and I have covered, Jim, the cycle logical wounds for those who weren't physically injured can be catastrophic as well and can last a lifetime.

SCIUTTO: Josh Campbell, thanks so much for following. We know you'll get answers to some of these more questions.

CNN is reporting that the high school at the center of today's mass shooting received an earlier phone threat, according to multiple law enforcement officials. They say Apalachee High School received a phone call this morning warning that there would be shootings at five schools, and that Apalachee would be the first.

Before we go to our national security analyst, Juliette Kayyem, I want to go to Kamala Harris, the vice president, about to begin her remarks here in Portsmouth, New Hampshire -- North Hampton, New Hampshire, I should say, the focus of these comments on her economic plan as she runs for president.

We do expect her to comment on today's shooting as well. You can see the vice president there approaching the podium, and there she is, denim jacket. Let's listen in.

(CHEERING)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hi, everyone. Hi. Good afternoon, North Hampton. Oh my goodness.

Can we hear from the Nicole from back (INAUDIBLE)?

(CROWD CHANTING "KAMALA!")

HARRIS: Hi, guys. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. Thank you all. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

It's so good to be back in New Hampshire. Thank you all. Thank you.

And Doug sends his love to everyone as well.

Oh, thank you, everyone. Nicole, thank you. You guys are just so extraordinary and I applaud the way you do the

business that you do, and the love that you do in giving community. I love our small business owners. It is what you do.

I'm going to talk about a bit about you in a minute, but you are part of the fabric, the essential fabric of a community that cares about one another. Thank you for everything.

(CHEERING)

HARRIS: Thank you. Thank you.

And thank you to the outstanding congressional delegation, Senators Shaheen, Hassan.

(CHEERING)

HARRIS: Representatives Pappas and Kuster and all the leaders who are here today. Thank you all. Thank you all for taking the time to be here this afternoon. Thank you, everyone. Thank you.

So before I begin, I do want to say a few words about this tragic shooting that took place this morning, in Winder, Georgia.

We're still gathering information about what happened, but we know that there were multiple fatalities and injuries. And you know, our hearts are with all the students, the teachers, and their families, of course, and we are grateful to the first responders in the law enforcement that were on the scene.

But this is just a senseless tragedy, on top of so many senseless tragedies and it's just outrageous that every day in our country, in the United States of America, that parents have to send their children to school, worried about whether or not their child will come home alive.

It's senseless. It is. We've got to stop it and we have to end this epidemic of gun violence in our country once and for all. You know, it doesn't have to be this way. It doesn't have to be this way.

So we will continue, of course, to send our prayers and our thoughts to the families and all those who were affected, including -- you know, I -- I am going off script right now.

[15:10:11]

But listen -- I mean -- at the last year, I started a college tour and I traveled our country meeting with our young leaders, right? And so it was college age young leaders. So I did trade schools, colleges, universities, community colleges.

By the way, I love Gen Z. I just love Gen Z, right?

(CHEERING)

HARRIS: But I'll tell you, one of the things, one of the things that I asked every time I went to the auditorium be filled with these young leaders, students. And I'd ask them -- raise your hand if at any point between kindergarten and 12th grade, you had to endure an active shooter drill.

And for the young leaders who are here, who are raising your hand, I'm telling you, every time the auditorium was packed and almost every hand went up. You know, a lot of us, I'll talk -- speak about myself -- you know, we had -- well, I grew up in California, earthquake drills. We had fire drills.

But our kids are sitting in a classroom where they should be fulfilling their God-given potential, and some part of their big beautiful brain is concerned about a shooter busting through the door of the classroom.

It does not have to be this way. It does not have to be this way.

(APPLAUSE)

HARRIS: And, you know, this is one of the many issues that's at stake in this election.

So, New Hampshire, look, we have 62 days to go, 62 days to go, and I'm going to tell you what you already know. This race is going to be tight until the very end.

So, please, let's not pay too much attention to the polls because we are running as the underdog. We know what they're capable of on the other side. The only thing we can take for granted is the love that we as Americans have for each other, knowing we have so much more in common than what separates us.

And we've got some hard work ahead, but we like hard work. Hard work is good work. Hard work can be joyful work, and so we are up for the task and with your help, we will win in November. We will win in November.

And that in large part is because we know what we stand for, and when you know what you stand for, you know what to fight for.

We love our country and we believe in the promise of America. That's so much of what I think brings us all together this afternoon. We believe in the promise of America, and that includes a topic we're going to discuss today, which is what I call an opportunity economy, building an opportunity economy.

And my vision of an opportunity economy is one where everyone can compete and have a real chance to succeed, where everyone, regardless of who they are, where they start, can build wealth, including intergenerational, where workers are treated with dignity and everyone has the freedom to join a union if they choose.

(CHEERING)

HARRIS: Where we remove barriers to opportunity, so anyone who wants to start a business can have access to the tools and the resources they need to do that.

I believe -- and I said it before, Nicole -- I believe America's small businesses are an essential foundation to our entire economy.

Think about it. Think about it. Small businesses in our country employ half of all private sector workers, half of all private sector workers, own or run a small business or worked for a small business.

They do trillions of dollars of business every year. They generate revenue that helps repair our roads and pay our teachers. And you know, for all those who are or know small business owners, the thing I love about you is that you're not only leaders in business, you are civic leaders.

You are community leaders. You are mentors. You hire locally. You believe in the community and your part of the glue of the fabric that holds communities together.

You provide the local meetings space. You are the types of folks where you know who your regulars are and when someone's walking in the door and you can tell they've had a bad day, you know, exactly what they need.

Isn't that the best of who we are? Isn't that the best of who we are?

(CHEERING)

HARRIS: And I've met so many entrepreneurs across the country who take the incredible leap of faith that is required to start a small business, folks who put their life savings on the line and work through the weekends and holidays because they aren't just building a business. They're pursuing a dream. They're building a better future for their employees and for the people they love in their communities.

And by extension, they're building a stronger middle-class and a stronger America for us all.

(CHEERING)

HARRIS: And so all of this is why as president, one of my highest priorities will be too strengthen America's small businesses and here, I am in New Hampshire to announce a few elements of my plan to do that.

(CHEERING)

HARRIS: So, first, we're going to help more small businesses and innovators get off the ground, okay? Now, I'm setting what some I'm sure are going to call a very ambitious goal. But you know what? I think we should admire ambition in each other.

So I want to see 25 million new small business applications by the end of my first term.

(CHEERING) HARRIS: And to help achieve this, we will lower the cost of starting a new business. So, here's the thing. On average, it costs about $40,000 to start a new business in America.

That is a great financial barrier for a lot of folks, and it can hold entrepreneurs back and the current tax deduction for a startup is just $5,000, okay? So then you got to make up the delta there, got to figure out how you can do that. Not everyone has access to that kind of wealth and capital.

So part of my plan is we will expand the tax deduction for startups to $50,000.

(CHEERING)

HARRIS: It's essentially a tax cut for starting a small business.

Second, my plan will help existing small businesses grow. We will provide low and no interest loans to small businesses that want to expand and we will -- and this is very important -- cut the red tape that can make starting and growing a small business more difficult than it needs to be, more difficult than it needs to be.

(CHEERING)

HARRIS: For example, we will make it cheaper and easier for small businesses to file their taxes. Similar -- similar to how individuals can take a standard deduction.

You know, I said to my team, kind of like, now, I'm going to date myself again because they no longer do it, but kind of like you remember, the 1040EZ, like that kind of idea, right? Like, let's just take away some of the bureaucracy in the process to make it easier for people to actually do something that's going to benefit our entire economy.

Third -- third, my plan will invest in small businesses and innovators throughout America. And here's why -- we know that talent exists everywhere in our country from rural towns to city centers. But not everyone has access to the financing, to venture capital or expert advice.

It's not that they don't have the skills. It's not that they don't have the work ethic. It's access to these resources.

So under my plan, we will expand access to venture capital. We will support innovation hubs and business incubators, and we will increase federal contracts with small businesses.

And we will have a particular focus on small businesses in rural communities, like right here in New Hampshire.

(CHEERING)

HARRIS: Finally, my plan will make our tax code more fair while also prioritizing investment and innovation. [15:20:03]

So let us be clear: billionaires and big corporations must pay their fair share in taxes.

(CHEERING)

HARRIS: Because here's the thing, here's the thing, it's just not right that those who can most afford it are often paying a lower tax rate than our teachers and our nurses and our firefighters.

It's just not right. It's just not right. That's why I support a billionaire minimum tax and corporations paying their fair share.

And while we ensure that the wealthy and big corporations pay their fair share, we will tax capital gains at a rate that rewards investment in America's innovators, founders, and small businesses.

So here's the detail. If you earn $1 million a year or more, the tax rate on your long capital gains will be 28 percent under my plan, because we know when the government encourages investment, it leads to broad-based economic growth and it creates jobs which makes our economy stronger.

(CHEERING)

HARRIS: Now compare that to what Donald Trump plans.

(BOOING)

HARRIS: He intends to cut off federal programs that give loans to small businesses.

(BOOING)

HARRIS: He plans to give billionaires massive tax cuts and to cut corporate taxes by over $1 trillion even as they pull in record profits.

(BOOING)

HARRIS: His plans will add more than $5 trillion to the national debt and that is on top of the $2 trillion tax cut he gave them when he was president and when he exploded the deficit.

(BOOING)

HARRIS: We know how to count. We know how to count.

And now, he also wants to impose what in effect is a national sales tax on everyday products and basic necessities, which will skyrocket the costs for families and small businesses.

And, New Hampshire, on top of all of this, if Donald Trump were to win in November, he intends to end the Affordable Care Act.

(BOOING)

HARRIS: Which would significantly increase costs on small businesses as we know -- well, you know what, the courts are going to handle that and we will handle November. How about that?

(CHEERING)

HARRIS: How about that? That's how we'll handle that. How about that?

But think about it. He wants to end the Affordable Care Act, taking this back to a time when insurance companies could deny people with pre-existing conditions. You remember what that was? Children with asthma, breast cancer survivors, grandparents with diabetes.

So, yeah, look, we are here to tell him and them, we are not going back. We're not going back. We're not going back. We're not going back.

(CROWD CHANTING "WE'RE NOT GOING BACK")

HARRIS: No, we are not. And we will move forward because ours is a fight for the future and -- and it is a fight for freedom. And it is a fight for freedom.

Now, I don't have to tell the folks of New Hampshire, the live free or die state.

(CHEERING)

HARRIS: You know the importance of individual freedoms, fundamental freedoms. You know how hard people fought for these freedoms, and that they are foundational to who we are and what we stand for as America. Including the fundamental freedom of a woman to make decisions about her own body and not have our government telling her what to do.

And understand how we got here, understand how we got here. And, of course, we're not going to fall for the gaslighting he's pushing, right?

When he was president, Donald Trump handpicked three members of the United States Supreme Court, with the intention that they would undo the protections of Roe v. Wade, and as he intended, they did.

[15:25:01]

And now in more than 20 states in our nation, there is a Trump abortion ban, many with no exceptions, even for rape and incest, which is immoral, immoral.

And let us agree and I know we do. One does not have to abandon their faith or deeply held beliefs to agree, the government should not be telling her what to do with her body.

(CHEERING)

HARRIS: And if he wins, and if he wins, you can be sure, Donald Trump will go further and he will sign a national abortion ban and -- you know, Project 2025 which I just -- I mean, can you believe they put that thing in writing?

And under Project 2025, he would create a national anti-abortion coordinator which would force states -- I mean, this is unbelievable, right? Which forced states to report on women's miscarriages and abortions.

You know what they are making really quite clear? They just don't trust women. They just don't trust women. But we trust women. We trust women.

And when Congress passes a bill to restore reproductive freedom as president of the United States, I will proudly sign it into law.

(CHEERING)

HARRIS: Across our nation --

(CROWD CHANTING "KAMALA")

HARRIS: Across our nation -- across our nation, and I've been traveling for many, many -- well, years actually, and certainly months, most recently. Across our nation, I'm telling you, we are witnessing a full-on attack on hard-fought, hard won fundamental freedoms and rights, including the freedom to vote, the freedom to be safe from gun violence, the freedom to breathe, clean air, and drink clean water, the freedom to love who you love openly and with pride.

And so here's where I don't have to tell the folks of New Hampshire because you know it so well, as part of your DNA, generations of Americans before us, they fought for freedom, and they led the fight for freedom in our country. And now, the baton is in our hands, the baton is in our hands.

So let us understand which we do, our purpose at this very moment. Let us remember the broad shoulders upon which we stand and the traditions of this very fight that have led to what we have been able to accomplish and let us understand them that when we say fight, it is a fight for something, not against something. It is for something.

That's what we're talking about when we talk about a new way forward, this is for something. And so as an example, let us finally pass the John Lewis Voting Rights Act and the Freedom to Vote Act. Let us finally pass an assault weapons ban and universal background checks and red flag laws, because we are clear on that point. It is a false choice to say you're either in favor of the Second Amendment or you want to take everyone's guns away.

I'm in favor of the Second Amendment and I know we need reasonable gun safety laws in country.

(CHEERING)

HARRIS: And there's another point that I'd like to stress about this election in '24, this is not 2016 or 2020. The stakes are even higher this time.

SCIUTTO: We've been listening to Vice President Kamala Harris there speaking in New Hampshire. The focus on introducing new economic proposals, she did begin her comments with words about today's deadly school shooting at a high school just outside of Atlanta.

[15:30:02]

She said it's just outrageous that every day parents have to send their children to school worried whether their child will come home alive. It doesn't have to be this way. She says this is just one of the things that's at stake in this election.

She went on to introduce several new measures, proposals under her economic plan.

CNN's Eva McKend covers the Harris campaign here.

And there are a number of new measures in here. One, raising the tax deduction for starting a small business from $5,000 to $50,000, that would be a significant increase. Also, raising the capital gains tax rate to 28 percent for earners over $1 million.

But notably, that's lower than President Biden's proposal earlier this year, significantly lower.

EVA MCKEND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is, Jim, it is a departure and perhaps a real difference from how she ran her campaign in 2020. But the point of the address today was to essentially argue she is on the side of small businesses, $50,000 tax deduction for new small businesses. She pledged to cut red tape and alleviate some of these regulatory hurdles that these small businesses face.

We, of course, know that this was a group that suffered mightily during the pandemic. And she was essentially there in New Hampshire to tell this community she had their back, and also to characterize herself as someone who is fiscally responsible. She even made the bold announcement and she recognized it as such, that she wanted 25,000 new small business applications by the end of her first term.

And she noted that for an average person trying to start a business, it cost about 40,000 and that the government needed to step in, in some instances and help people get their feet off the ground.

But yes, she did propose a smaller increase in taxes on capital gains, that to be sure will get the most attention, because it is a departure from President Biden.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, it appears to be part of a broader move towards the center here often, you'll hear Republicans try to own the small business space. She's making her case to win over some of those voters with this, with these proposals.

Eva McKend, thanks so much.

Joining us now to break down the economics behind Harris's latest proposals, our own Richard Quest.

There were some news here in the statement and, of course, she's not the first presidential candidate to say, I want to eliminate red tape, small business owners, et cetera. But you do have some quite specific proposals here. One, raising their tax deduction from $5,000 to $50,000, start a small business. That's -- that's no small thing. And the other, the capital gains tax rate much lower larger, higher than it is now, but much lower than President Biden was proposing.

I wonder what you think the significance of those two proposals is.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR AT LARGE: OK. The significant I think is more important on the capital gains one, and for this reason. It's going to hit more people. It's going to affect more people.

The capital gains measure that she's talking about, over -- there was over $1 million, it's a lot of money, Jim, but it's not that much in the grand scheme of things. And quite a lot of wealthier Americans are going to be caught by that. So if you are wealthier and you are naturally Democrat or on the left of the Republican Party, that solidifies your support back to Kamala Harris.

You're not -- they're not going to be rocked and robbed at a higher rate of income tax on capital gains. Instead, she's say that there are those wealthier Americans who say, look, we've - we know we have to pay our fair share and even not on capital gains, but the Biden proposal was asking us to pay what we think is more than our fair share.

What Kamala Harris is doing is saying, I hear you, I hear you. You're paying more, but not as much.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you just a general economy question because I have you here for this. You and I've talked about new economic indicators over the course of last several weeks. Some of them bad, some of them good.

We have had sluggish manufacturing and jobs data for the U.S. just in the last several days. When you take all the indicators together, is there more evidence that economic growth is slowing?

QUEST: Oh, absolutely. And, Jim, that be something wrong given it wasn't because as I've said, this is the medicine of the Fed at work. It is a slow-acting medicine. It's been administered over the last couple of years or 18 months, and now you're seeing the effect.

So if we weren't seeing an increase in unemployment, if we weren't seeing manufacturing slowing down, if we weren't seeing pockets of weakness, we will be literally saying, well, hang on a second. What will use was the higher interest rates, they weren't high enough.

As it happens, inflation is coming beautifully down.

[15:35:04]

You do have these indicators, the only possible fly in the ointment as whether the Fed has lifted a few months too late, might just tip the economy into distress. You won't know that until we see the rearview mirror.

SCIUTTO: No question. Always looking for that soft landing. Can you really stick the landing in Olympic terms?

Richard Quest, thanks so much.

QUEST: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Of course, be sure to stick around next hour for more of Richard's expert economic analysis on "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS".

Still ahead here, a new CNN poll of six critical swing states in the race for the White House, it's a close one. It does show a lead in many of those states for Kamala Harris.

We're going to have those numbers to break down, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: All right, to the presidential election and the swing states. A new CNN poll of six key states shows a toss-up race, though Harris narrowly leading in Michigan and Wisconsin, Trump narrowly up in Arizona. No clear leader in Pennsylvania, Georgia, and Nevada.

Larry Sabato of the UVA Center for Politics joins me now to go through these numbers.

Larry, I'm sure you saw these. It's tight in those states. It's definitely different from what we saw when Biden was the candidate who was almost invariably behind in the battleground states. Here you see Harris ahead in some, tied in others.

What's your read as to where this race stands?

LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA CENTER FOR POLITICS: Well, my read is that this is a more comprehensive survey than we've seen because its all seven of the swing states, plus the Senate races that are being held in those states which also very important message that the two, that is the presidential race in the Senate race in each of these key states is tied together. There are some relationship between those numbers. But what it tells me again is that it's close.

Look, polls can only tell you, given that there are approximations, they can tell you one of three things. That candidate A is well ahead and it's the favorite, or the candidate B is well ahead and is the favorite.

[15:40:05]

Or that things are close and it can go either way and put this series of polls in the third category, that things are close and the election could go either way, though, as you note, there really important thing, big picture, 30,000 feet, is that Kamala Harris is where George -- where Joe Biden may never have been. He was nowhere near coming this close to Trump. And, of course, that's one of the main reasons why he decided to step aside.

SCIUTTO: Was there any convention bounce that you've seen in the data, not just this poll, but other polls?

SABATO: No, no. Kamala Harris got to convention bounce before the convention. She had no bounce. But remember, Donald Trump had a bounce of one point total. Now, maybe he would have had more had (INAUDIBLE) jumped out of the race right after the Republican convention.

But this is the norm. Now, we don't have significant bounces anymore. The last big one was thousand when George W. Bush and Al Gore each gained eight points after their conventions. That was the last big down.

SCIUTTO: I guess the question will be, do we see a debate bounce? We certainly saw a debate, debates stumble for Biden after the last debate.

We've talked a lot on the show about how Trump is courting in particular young men, including non-white men, Blacks and Hispanics. I want to look at the gender split in the states from the CNN poll.

Harris way up with women, as we've seen in a number of surveys, Trump way up with men. Is that pattern bigger than we've seen in previous cycles? And does that pattern give either candidate an advantage?

SABATO: It's bigger right now in both cases, although I would say Trump is leading with men to a lesser degree than Harris is leading with women.

But, Jim, I've been through so many election cycles, often at this point in the cycle, the subcategories are exaggerated, the trends are exaggerated. By Election Day, this will settle down into what it might not have been had Biden stayed in, a normal election, normal in the sense of the Trump era.

This is going to be pretty much more or less what we saw in 2016 or 2020. Whichever one of them wins, we're going to see the same kinds of patterns. Already, Harris has made a lot of grounds with Blacks and with Hispanics and she's also making up ground in other ways that are very interesting to me. We'll see whether it holds.

SCIUTTO: Okay, final question before we go. And you know, I asked you this every time we talk who has the edge right now.

SABATO: Harris has the edge, but it is (AUDIO GAP) edge and I wouldn't, of course, I'm an academic, I'm not paid big bucks like you are, Jim. But I wouldn't bet my -- my modest salary, any of it on this election yet.

SCIUTTO: Larry Sabato, thanks so much as always.

SABATO: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, just after the break, protesters in Israel have returned to the streets for the fourth straight night, calling for an immediate ceasefire and a deal to release Israeli hostages. How is Netanyahu responding? That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:46:44]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back.

The Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is doubling down on his insistence to keep Israeli forces on what's known as the Philadelphi corridor, and that is the one separating Gaza from Egypt, jeopardizing a ceasefire and deal to release Israeli hostages.

Hours ago, Netanyahu held a press conference in English for the foreign media, repeating several points from Monday's press conference, defending the significance of that corridor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: I'm telling you that if we relieve the pressure, if we got out of the Philadelphi corridor, we're not going to get the hostages back. Certainly, we're going to condemn a lot of them to stay there. We can get a few out, don't give us that. But then leave a lot with them. We won't have the pressure point.

And something else will happen, we will not be able to come back, so we won't release all the hostages and we want achieve the defenses that we must have.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: To be clear, some members of his own government disagree with that assessment as do these protesters. They're not slowing down, calling for an immediate hostage deal. Tonight, they've gathered outside the homes of Israeli lawmakers, of course, here protests more pointed given the deaths of those six hostages earlier this week.

Joining me now to discuss, Aaron David Miller, former middle east negotiator for the State Department, now a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

So six Israeli hostages are dead, killed by Hamas. Of course, Hamas killed them. But the criticism from inside Israel, including those protesters is that Netanyahu won't make a deal to save their lives. We've asked many times if this is the moment that Netanyahu was unrecoverable weekend and each time he survives.

I wonder, do you think the same happens again?

AARON DAVID MILLER, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT MIDDLE EAST NEGOTIATOR: My sense, Jim, is that yes, because the numbers here on the streets, while important and more, they could grow and the only number that really counts in Benjamin Netanyahu's mind is the number 64. That's the number of seats that his coalition control, and there's absolutely no indication on the part of any of the parties that they have any stake in fracturing that coalition. SCIUTTO: In fact, they all have agendas, the ultra religious parties,

they want their monies for the religious schools. Ben-Gvir and Smotrich are pursuing annexation of the West Bank and every name, they're very happy campers as long as the war goes on.

And the reality is Ben -- it's not to Philadelphi corridor. I mean, we could argue and Israeli, there's a fair point, that corridor is extremely important. I mean, could other means be used to address it as the Israeli security forces, Benny Gantz, Yoav Gallant have argued? Sure.

The reality is that there is no urgency on the part of Benjamin Netanyahu or Yahya Sinwar to either let those hostages ago or to redeem them through negotiation. And the fact that Sinwar ordered the execution or policies led to the execution of these six validates the Netanyahu narratives that you cannot negotiate with murderers.

And the Biden administration, frankly, I think they're really stuck here. I mean, it expands the amount of space Benjamin Netanyahu has, argue against a deal with Hamas and contracts the Biden administrations space and margin to pressure Israel because it is with Hamas.

[15:50:10]

And you saw Matt Miller yesterday for the first time, and he's done it before, basically say you've got two parties these negotiations, Israel and Hamas, but they're not and then the Justice Department, of course, seals --

SCIUTTO: OK, but the fact is Israel has negotiated with Hamas. That's how the largest portion of the hostages were released a number of months ago, through negotiation and military operations have released I believe eight is the total. Not many dozens. And you still have close to 100, while around 100, although it's acknowledged that perhaps a third of them are dead.

Regardless, they have negotiated with Hamas to release hostages before. So why not now as those hostages are dying?

MILLER: Because Benjamin Netanyahu clearly needs to preserve what his prime directive, what's the organizing principle of his world? It's been this way since he was indicted for bribery, fraud, and breach of trust, in Jerusalem district court.

His primary objective is to stay in power. He can identify any rationalization, justification that he wants, it's not the Philadelphi corridor. Tomorrow, it will be something else.

SCIUTTO: Right.

MILLER: He knows that if he makes this deal and he's forced to release at least 150 Palestinians, many of whom have been charged or convicted with killing Israelis, fair chance that he could see his coalition fractured. He's not prepared to take that risk.

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

MILLER: And Sinwar, you know, he thinks he's winning.

SCIUTTO: Yeah. I mean, Sinwar's shown remarkable ability not just to kill Israelis, but to allow his own people to be killed, right? And even say that's the cost of war, right? And hide behind them.

Aaron David Miller, good to have you on. Sad topic, but good to have you.

MILLER: Thanks, Jim. Always a pleasure, depressing, but it's great talking to you.

SCIUTTO: It is depressing.

Well, recapping our top story, another sad one, we are waiting for an update from Georgia law enforcement expected at the top of the next hour after a school shooting, the Apalachee High School, this in Winder, Georgia, just outside of Atlanta. What we know as of now, at least four people are dead nine people hospitalized, according to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation. A teenage suspect, 14-year-old boy, is in custody.

CNN is on the ground. It's been listening to students. Here's one account from Julie Sandoval.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JULIE SANDOVAL, STUDETN: All I heard was a pretty five gunshots right next to me. I didn't see anything, that's all I heard. Everybody rushing to the little corner. There was a little door heading out outside, so that's where I hid, and just in case something were to happen.

After like, I'm pretty sure, like five minutes, police came in and they were like -- sorry, I missed but they were like -- just like, let me see your hands. Let me see what you have and everything, and that's pretty much it. I was crying the whole entire time. I was texting my parents because obviously like nobody knows what's going to happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: So children witnessed murder in their school again.

Josh Campbell is back with us.

Updated at the top of the hour, do we expect to have any answer those questions I asked you earlier in the hour, including how this child got a gun?

CAMPBELL: Yeah, certainly. We hope so. You know, whenever police addressed the public, little while ago, they didn't provide much information at all, saying this remains an ongoing investigation, only saying that they had, quote, casualties.

We now know that includes at least four people killed, several others who were injured. And so, we're waiting for details about the victims and, you know, about the suspect as well.

We do know based on our reporting, this was a 14-year-old boy, but again, we have to all ask the question, what would be the motive here, which is what law enforcement will be looking at as well. If the suspect did provide information during an interview with law enforcement, obviously, that would help them potentially glean the motive.

I would guess based on how these have gotten in the past, the fact that they would want to prosecute this person, authorities who would probably be keeping close to the vest, any statements said the shooter makes about the motive. But again, this is certainly the big question that we all have. And then, of course, another question is about the firearm itself. How a 14 got act access to a firearm.

You and I, Jim, were talking earlier. You mentioned spot on the case of the Oxford high school shooter and how that case his parents were actually prosecuted for allowing him to get access to that weapon.

So that will be a big question here. Who gave this boy or allowed this boy access to a weapon? Whose gun was it? Will authorities be trying to prosecute that person?

SCIUTTO: I mean, I hate to ask it in these terms, but does motive matter in a case like -- we always ask the question, what's the motive? And the motive appears to kill to be to kill, right?

[15:55:03]

I mean, is there variation that we see in your experience among these shootings as to what that motivation is to kill?

CAMPBELL: Yeah. You know, it helps in the sense that law enforcement is not only investigating one incident, but also trying to prevent future incidents as well. So they want to look for any potential red flags. Were there any indication that this person was about to do this?

You know, you and I last month, Jim, talked about this new FBI study where they came out basically, they're renowned profilers and what they told the public is, look, mass shooters don't just snap. Nearly every single instance, there's some type of what they call leakage, some type of warning signs. People who used to be outgoing that are now reclusive, people who are maybe talking about violence and so many incidents.

People who expressed some outward sign that was just not reported. So that's what law enforcement tries to do in these situations, gather as much as they can in order to try to help stop the next one.

SCIUTTO: Yeah. Josh Campbell, thanks so much.

CAMPBELL: You bet.

SCIUTTO: And thanks so much to all of you for joining me today. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.