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CNN International: Suspected Shooter's Father Arrested, Charged with Murder; Videos Appear to Show Ukrainian Soldiers Being Executed; Trump to Address Fraternal Order of Police; Court Appearance for 14- Year-Old Suspect Colt Gray; Judge Explained Possible Punishments for Alleged Crimes to Colt Gray; 14-Year-Old Suspect in GA School Shooting Appears in Court. Aired 8-9a ET
Aired September 06, 2024 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[08:00:00]
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Hello, and welcome to our viewers all around the world. I'm Fredricka Whitfield, and this is the CNN Newsroom. This hour, the 14-year-old gunman accused of killing two students and two teachers in Georgia on Wednesday will make his first court appearance.
We're on the ground in the West Bank, where after a week of intense military operations, Israeli forces appear to have withdrawn, and it's another complicated day for Donald Trump. First, he appears in a New York courtroom before hitting the campaign trail.
The 14-year-old suspected gunman in this week's deadly school shooting in the U.S. State of Georgia is scheduled to appear in court this hour for the first time. Colt Gray faces four counts of felony murder. He's accused of killing two of his fellow students and two teachers at Apalachee High School on Wednesday.
Gray is expected to be charged as an adult. The suspected gunman's father also arrested and now facing charges. Authorities say Colin Gray bought the AR-15 style weapon used in the shooting as a gift for his son in December. CNN's Rafael Romo spoke to our Sara Sidner earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As you can imagine, there's a lot of interest here, not only from the community and the State of Georgia, but a lot of media presence here this morning. Now I have to tell you something. Sarah, the suspect himself will not be here.
He's going to appear virtually, because right now he's being detained at the Gainesville Regional Youth Detention Center. But what we know already is that he is facing at least four charges Sara and the charges that he faces, of course, have to do with the horrific murders that happened Wednesday here in Winder, just about an hour away from Atlanta, northeast of Atlanta.
And in a significant development overnight, Sara, we have also heard and got confirmation from the Georgia Bureau of Investigation that the suspect -- the suspect's father, Colin Gray, has also been arrested, and he faces multiple charges. Let me read to you what he is facing.
Now, the 54-year-old is now facing eight counts of cruelty to children in the second degree, two counts of involuntary manslaughter in the second degree, and another four counts of involuntary manslaughter. Now, why did authorities here decide to charge the father? This is what the Director of the Georgia Bureau of Investigation had to say about it.
CHRIS HOSEY, DIRECTOR, GEORGIA BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION: These charges stem from Mr. Gray knowingly allowing his son, Colt, to possess a weapon that he is in custody at this time. The arrest was made when we had the probable cause to make the arrest.
ROMO: And overnight, Sarah, we have also heard that both the father and the son were on law enforcement's radar for at least a couple of years for different reasons stemming from incidents that happened here in Georgia. Let me tell you, for example, that in July of 2022 the family was evicted from their home, and as part of the eviction, and this is key here, sheriff's deputies collected three guns, including an AR-15 rifle, for safekeeping, and those weapons were later returned.
In May of last year, deputies interviewed Colin Gray and the FBI flagged an online post that threats to an unidentified location, and then in December, we also learned that the father bought the son a gun for Christmas. Now he was interviewed. The father, Colin Gray, was interviewed by Jackson County Sheriff's Office, and this is what he had to say about the availability of weapons around his house. Let's take a listen.
INVESTIGATOR: Do you have weapons in the house?
COLIN GRAY, FATHER OF COLT GRAY: I do.
INVESTIGATOR: Are they accessible to him?
GRAY: They are, I mean, there's nothing -- nothing loaded, but they are down. We, actually, we do a lot of shooting. We do a lot of deer hunting. He shot his first deer this year, you know, so like, I'm pretty much in shock, to be honest with you, well, I'm a little pissed off, to be even really honest with you, if that is what was said.
ROMO: Of course, hear this is going to play out more fully during the trial for the father. But what I can tell you being here in Winder is that this is a community still in shock, as you can imagine, a lot of people still trying to process the horrific incidents that happened here on Wednesday.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[08:05:00]
WHITFIELD: And since Rafael Romo filed that report with our Sara Sidner, we now have learned that the 14-year-old Colt Gray will appear in court this morning for that first appearance. Let's talk now further about the road ahead. Jeff Swartz is with us. He's a Professor at Thomas M Cooley Law School's Tampa Bay Campus, and a Former Miami- Dade County Court Judge. He's joining me now from Tampa. Great to see you.
JEFF SWARTZ, FORMER MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT JUDGE: Great to see you too Fred.
WHITFIELD: All right, this is so complicated and really so sad, isn't it, because, you know, we're talking about this 14-year-old kid now being charged as an adult, but because of his age, he is being held in a juvenile facility. And his father, I'm going to go through all the charges, because there are a lot.
He's facing, four counts of involuntary manslaughter, two counts of second-degree murder, eight counts of cruelty to children. The father, Colin Gray, he already admitted that he bought his son that AR style weapon for Christmas, and that was after that recording, we just heard that kind of wellness check involving the family.
So, you know Jeff, do you see these charges as appropriate? Do you also see this as a litany of charges that are going to be very hard for the father to fight.
SWARTZ: Well, you know, this reminds me of the Crumbley case that took place in Michigan.
WHITFIELD: Yeah.
SWARTZ: The statutes in Georgia are not that dissimilar that they're going to have to have proved basically common law application to their involuntary manslaughter charges and to their murder charges. In this -- in the Crumbley case, there was no statute which required parents to secure their weapons. The same thing applies in Georgia.
There is no such statute which makes that -- places that duty upon a parent, so they're going to have to show that somehow or another, there was what we call culpable negligence, or criminal negligence, which is beyond mere negligence, and establish some sort of duty upon the parent to secure the weapons under common law, not so much under statutory law.
Do I think that the result may end up being the same as in the Crumbley case? Yes, I do. This type of case does ferment a lot of public outrage, and want applications like this. Georgia is more of a gun state than even Michigan, so it is going to be a tough road to hope for the prosecution as it is for the defense.
But the second-degree murder is kind of a reach, but that's because of the cruelty to children is an element of second-degree murder that they're trying to apply to the father outside of the involuntary manslaughter. The charges are kind of duplicative, and so as a result of which I'm not sure he can be convicted of all of them, one or the other involving the deaths, is probably what we're looking at.
WHITFIELD: Yeah, sometimes prosecutors will throw it all out there and essentially see what sticks, even if all of it does not.
SWARTZ: Right.
WHITFIELD: So, you mentioned the Crumbley case, as the parents you know, in Michigan, they were convicted, and at the time, I remember so many conversations I had, perhaps, I believe, with you and certainly a lot of other legal analysts --
SWARTZ: Yeah.
WHITFIELD: -- about how precedent setting it was. Was this going to open up the floodgates to parents and their alleged culpability when there is a mass shooting involving a minor? No longer is it a possibility, but now we're seeing it's a reality. Do you see that this is --
SWARTZ: Yes.
WHITFIELD: -- you know, not to -- not to be flippant about it, but is this going to be essentially a trend? This is now going to be a norm that parents are held liable?
SWARTZ: Where the statutes permitted to happen? Yeah, it is going to happen more. And we talked about this in the Crumbley case, and we did say this was going to happen. And we're going to see a lot of children like this again, 14-year-old, who is now going to be tried as an adult in hopes of placing him in prison for the rest of his life, because they're going to consider him to be incorrigible and unrehabilitatable.
The parents will pay the price for what the child has done. The real issue in this case is going to be the same as it was in Michigan, causation. How are you going to establish that what this father did was the cause of the death of the -- of the other children? This is not easy to do, but again, we're talking about public outrage.
WHITFIELD: Yeah.
SWARTZ: And it's going to be interesting to see how the people of Georgia react to this. This is a young man at 14-years-old who's now going to be moved from a juvenile facility to an adult facility, probably sometime today or tomorrow.
WHITFIELD: Right. And so, on trial, what? Not just what the parent did, but as we saw in the Crumbley case it's sometimes what the parent didn't do ahead of it.
SWARTZ: That's right.
WHITFIELD: Jeff Shwartz --
SWARTZ: That's right.
WHITFIELD: Yeah, thank you so much. We'll see you later on in the show as well. Thank you.
[08:10:00] All right, Israel says it has withdrawn from the West Bank towns of Jenin and Tulkarem, this after more than a week of military operations, which it says was meant to root out terrorists. An Israeli security source the operation is not saying that the operation is not over only paused, residents are returning to find streets and homes demolished and neighborhoods without electricity or water.
Jenin's Mayor says more than 70 percent of his city and there is -- the infrastructure is critically damaged. One resident says it feels like Gaza. Nic Robertson reports from Jenin.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: This is the center of Jenin, and the cleanup is just beginning. It's hard for the city to fathom how much damage there is. You can see the water here in the road that the water pipes have been knocked around.
We spin around here. You can see this barber shop, all the debris pushed up. I spoke to the owner there. He said it will cost him about $20,000 to repair, and he's had that barber shop now for he said, about 50 years. There are some things that can't be repaired here.
According to the Ministry of Health, 39 people have been killed, eight of them, they say, children, some elderly people as well. We were at the funerals earlier of some of the militants here. There was gunfire in the air from the group.
I spoke to one of the commanders of the militant groups, and he told me that they lost some fighters, but the Israelis should accept their own losses too, that if the IDF comes back, then they'll be ready for them. Plenty of guns out there, plenty of gunmen, and a very, very tense atmosphere around those funerals. Nic Robinson, CNN Jenin.
WHITFIELD: All right, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has a message for Kyiv's international allies. He is urging them to speed up deliveries of promised air defenses during a meeting with the U.S. Defense Secretary in Germany a short time ago, Mr. Zelenskyy warned of what he calls a significant shortfall in vital military aid.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: The number of air defense system that have not yet been delivered is significant. This is what was agreed upon, and this is what was -- what has not been fully implemented. The world has enough air defense systems to ensure that Russian terror does not have results. And I urge you to be more active in this work with us on air defense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: As Mr. Zelenskyy sounds the alarm over Ukraine's air defense shortfall, CNN has obtained exclusive drone video. It appears to show Ukrainian soldiers being executed after they have surrendered. It's one of several incidents being investigated by the Ukrainian Prosecutor General. CNN's Nick Payton Walsh is tracking all of this for us, and he's joining us right now live. Nick, we've heard this kind of line before from the Ukrainian leader is he being heard? NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Clearly, he feels not fast, urgently or quickly enough, and is a bill there as the things that have been promised to be delivered. And it comes after weeks of intense Russian bombardment, unprecedented, frankly, of Ukrainian cities and one of the largest death tolls we've seen against the Ukrainian military on the strike on -- just earlier on this week.
So clear cause in the recent days for him to demand that extra air defense, but at the same time too Ukraine on its forward feet, launching deeper and deeper strikes inside of Russia, and, frankly, loudly demanding that its Western allies allow them Ukraine to use U.S. supplied weapons to make those strikes more accurately.
But the evidence you're referring to forms part of a pattern Fredricka, of these chilling incidents in which Ukrainian soldiers appear to surrender and then hand themselves over to the Russians, yet are instead executed by those advancing Russian forces, chillingly caught on drones now hovering over the front lines. Here's some of the instances we saw.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WALSH (voice-over): The scene all too common on Ukraine's imperiled Eastern Front. Smoke billowing a position overrun. Ukrainian troops staggering out, appearing to surrender to advancing Russians. A brief close up on Ukrainian drone video seen here for the first time, shows them on their knees.
The drone operators ask each other for a better view, and then seconds later, it is too late. The three fall to the ground, dust nearby, suggesting gunfire executed in cold blood. Ukrainian official familiar with the incident said, despite hoping to be taken prisoner by the Russians, it is from near the besieged City of Pokrovsk in late August.
The source said the hottest spot on the front now where Russia is persistent advancing and follows a horrific pattern. Prosecutors say they're investigating a total of 28 cases in which 62 Ukrainian soldiers were killed after surrender on the battlefield.
[08:15:00]
ADRIY KOSTIN, PROSECUTOR GENERAL OF UKRAINE: If prisoners of war surrender, if they show that they surrender, if they are without weapons in their hand -- in their hands, then summary execution is the war crime.
WALSH (voice-over): It has worsened in the past 10 months. CNN obtaining from Ukrainian intelligence officials a detailed list of 15 incidents most backed up by drone video or audio intercepts.
WALSH: Now, United Nations investigators have scrutinized many of these killings, and a UN investigative source said to me, quote, there are many. There is a pattern, and the killings are war crimes individually, they said, in their opinion, and together, could amount to crimes against humanity.
WALSH (voice-over): And -- the site of some of the fiercest fighting this year in Zaporizhzhia, another Ukrainian drone filmed in May these images that are upsetting to watch. Ukrainian soldiers emerge one by one from the dugout. Ukraine's Defense Intelligence said they intercepted the Russian commander's order to execute or zero them, and gave us this transcript.
Take them down. Zero them. Take them, zero them the officer says, got it, plus comes the reply. Once you zero them, report back he adds, once they're all out, face down the Russians fire. Ukrainians we spoke to left asking, why to just terrify them? Or is it simply sport for the Russians?
PETRO YATSENKO, UKRAINIAN COORDINATION CENTER FOR THE TREATMENT OF POWS: The main reason is to made Russian soldiers believe they -- it's very dangerous to surrender to Ukrainian forces because Ukrainian soldiers will kill them, like Russians killing Ukrainian prisoners of war. This force them not to surrender, but go forward to their death.
WALSH (voice-over): A horror not always publicized or fully accounted for, yet being felt steadily by Ukrainians as they struggle to hold the eastern line.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WALSH (on camera): Now that the Russian Ministry of Defense has not responded to our request for comment on these incidents, and we have heard also from the Ukrainian foreign ministry who have said we are appalled by the horrific footage obtained by CNN.
This is in a tweet from their spokesperson, which follows Russians killing surrendering Ukrainians in cold blood. This war crime is part of Russia's ongoing gross violations of international humanitarian law. Russian barbarism is a disgrace to humanity.
Now, clearly this part of an ongoing issue for Ukrainian commanders. Not all the instances we are told by some Ukrainian military personnel that they hear of get publicized or end up being investigated by prosecutors them having to navigate the complex issue here, too much publicity may damage morale at the same time, this sort of savagery needs to get brought to light Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Yeah, damaging evidence. All right. Nick Paton Walsh, thank you so much. Still to come, Donald Trump is back in court today as we await key rulings in two of his already completed trials. How these rulings could impact his campaign when we come back?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:20:00]
WHITFIELD: Donald Trump will pull double duty on Friday appearing in court and on the campaign trail. Let's start with the court action. Trump will be in the courtroom in New York to hear his lawyers appeal the $5 million civil fine he got for sexual assault and defamation of E. Jean Carroll.
Separately, the judge in Trump's hush money case, also in New York, says he will decide today on the date for sentencing that is currently scheduled for September 18th, less than two weeks from now, but Trump wants it pushed back until after the November election. Our Kara Scannell is outside the courthouse in Manhattan. Lots of activity there today. So, Trump and E. Jean Carroll both expected to appear at this hearing this morning.
KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Fred that's right. Just a few hours from now, Donald Trump will be arriving here at this courthouse, as will E. Jean Carroll. They're going to be squaring off inside as they try to -- as Trump is going to appeal the verdict. That's the $5 million verdict that the jury awarded Carroll and Winnie, they found that Trump had sexually abused her and defamed her.
Now Trump's lawyers get 10 minutes to make their arguments. They're expected to say that the trial judge allowed testimony in that shouldn't testimony from two other women who would accuse Trump of sexual assault, also allowing the jury to see to Access Hollywood tape where Trump was caught on that hot mic making comments about how he can just grab women.
Now, Carroll's lawyers say that the judge made no mistakes, that that evidence was all evidence of Trump's MO about how he would assault women, deny it and then criticize their appearance. They will also get about 10 minutes. No decision is expected today, and Trump is not required to attend, but he is choosing to come to court today.
There are no cameras inside, so unlike his criminal case, he will not be able to speak to the cameras in the hallways, though, he is expected to give a press conference later today in New York. And as you said, the judge overseeing the criminal hush money case has told Trump's lawyers and the Manhattan District Attorney's Office that he will issue a decision today on whether to postpone the trial until after the election.
Trump had asked for that delay, saying he needed time to appeal any judgments that go against him in this effort to get that entire conviction thrown out. It remains to be seen what the judge will do, but prosecutors, they did not oppose the delay. They said it's up to the judge Fred.
WHITFIELD: All right, Kara Scannell at the New York Courthouse. Thank you so much. All right; after spending the morning on his legal troubles, Donald Trump will report to the police. No, not the way you're thinking. He's delivering a speech at a board meeting of the Fraternal Order of Police.
The speech will be in North Carolina, which has emerged as one of the closest swing states in this election. Meanwhile, Donald Trump claims to be expanding the battleground map, but his spending suggests otherwise. Our Steve Contorno is in Charlotte, North Carolina, where Trump is headed later on today. Steve, what are you learning?
STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: Well, Fred during the spring and the summer Donald Trump had made a play and laid the groundwork for him to a campaign for Minnesota, Virginia and New Hampshire. These are three states that have voted Democratic in presidential elections in recent years.
However, they believe that they could potentially make a play for that state and use them as part of an expanded map and path to the White House. However, as this race has tightened and as this energy has followed, Vice President Harris, their strategy has shifted, and we are seeing that in both the campaign spending and the schedule.
Since Donald Trump went to Minnesota in July he has not returned to the state, nor has his running mate. They instead, they have focused most of their time and energy in those seven battleground states across the Midwest and the sun belts, and we are seeing that in the spending as well.
Looking at the advertising airwave time that his campaign has reserved for the fall. $160 million has been reserved so far. Almost all of that is in those seven key battlegrounds, Minnesota, New Hampshire, Virginia. People there shouldn't expect any Donald Trump campaign ads on their televisions this fall.
Now, when we asked the Trump campaign about this, they said that they are still fighting for those states. The spokesperson for the campaign said, we are still maintaining an offensive posture in these nontraditional battleground states.
[08:25:00]
Nothing has changed as far -- as far as now as we have viewed the map. But when I talk to Republicans in those states, New Hampshire, Minnesota and Virginia, they say, look, we agree with the Trump campaign that these states were very much in play when Joe Biden was at the top of the Democratic ticket, but that has changed in recent weeks, and if the election were held today, Donald Trump would lose all three of those states Fred.
WHITFIED: All right, Steve Contorno, on the trail with the Trump campaign. Thanks so much. All right still to come, in just a few minutes, the 14-year-old suspect in this week's deadly school shooting in Georgia, the State of Georgia is set to make his first court appearance. A live report coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: Live pictures right now the courtroom inside the courtroom were very soon, a 14-year-old, a suspect in that Georgia school shooting earlier this week, will be brought in for his first court appearance. Colt Gray is set to make that appearance at any moment where he is facing four counts of felony murder charges.
At first, he was not going to be there present, but the reporting is now he will be brought into that courtroom facing those charges. Police accused Gray of using an AR style rifle rather to gun down two students and two teachers at his Winder Georgia school on Wednesday. His father has also been taken into custody, and he is being charged in those killings as well with related charges. Colin Gray faces four counts of involuntary manslaughter, two counts of second-degree murder. He is set to be arraigned next hour.
I've got with me now Jeff Swartz, he's joining me one more time. Hi, I wasn't sure who was going to appear in that box. So, there you are. And also, we've got Josh Campbell, I was expecting to see him as well, but we do have him from Los Angeles. So, I wonder, Josh, if you could read in first what's expected, there you go, what's expected as we're now awaiting this arraignment to happen involving this 14-year-old Colt Gray.
[08:30:00]
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is so interesting. I mean, what we're going to see is the alleged shooter here, this 14-year-old have his first appearance in court, and then shortly thereafter, his father will be presented in court as well.
Of course, the shooter charged with just that horrific tragedy that we saw this week near Atlanta, the school shooting resulting in four deaths, numerous other injuries. Unusually, in a lot of these cases, he was actually taken into custody without incident, which means that there will be a prosecution now this is now the first step of that, so we're waiting for that to begin.
His father is being charged based on allegedly providing access to the firearm in question here, and this is really interesting. We'll have to see if this is somewhat of a new trend that we're now seeing with prosecutors across the country.
We know, for example, in the case of the Oxford High School shooting in Michigan, both of the shooter's parents there were prosecuted again based on access to a gun in the 2022 July 4th shooting near Chicago, that shooter's parent was also prosecuted for alleged recklessness when it came to allowing the child access to a gun.
So, the father in this case similarly faces charges for his role. We know that stemmed from an FBI tip that came in, tip to the FBI that was then sent down to authorities there in Georgia. This pertain to an online threat that people had seen they determined that this child was the person who was making those threats.
Law enforcement goes to the home, they interview the alleged shooter, they interview his father, and then shortly thereafter, CNN is learning that the father essentially provided this AR-15 style rifle to his child as a holiday gift. And so, the father on notice from law enforcement that they believe that the kid had been making threats about conducting a school shooting shortly thereafter, provides his son allegedly with access to a gun. He is now being prosecuted for that as well. So, this will be quite something to see here in court today, Fred.
WHITFIELD: We heard that recording earlier where even prior to the gift of this AR style weapon from Colin to his son, Colt, that in the recording of that kind of wellness check, the dad, did -- you know say that they go hunting together. They do have that experience of handling guns together, but that he was disturbed or confused to hear that his son was being -- that he was being asked about whether his son would have any -- you know plans that were untoward involving guns.
But this AR is not something that you would use in hunting, and that too is very -- you know confusing to hear that while the dad was saying, yes, I've taught my son about guns and gun safety, and we enjoy guns together. An AR, that's something very different, especially after Josh this wellness check.
CAMBPELL: Yeah, no, you're right. And you know, this is a very high- powered type of rifle that carries lots of ammunition, and so you know, to your point, this isn't something that you would just typically take out when you're going hunting. And again, this being provided to the child, allegedly after these threats, obviously raises serious questions.
Interesting I'm also learning from a law enforcement source yesterday that after the shooting, law enforcement conducted a search of the shooter's home in his bedroom, they found various writings they believe the shooter had written referencing past mass shootings, including the 2018 massacre in at Parkland in Florida.
And so, you know, I talked to public safety experts all the time, they point to the fact that -- you know parents need to be more involved, more concerned about what their children are doing here, in this case again, even after law enforcement had come to the home and raised these questions about whether the child had been conducting some type of mass shooting in his bedroom, were the potential warning signs making reference to these past mass shootings, which, of course, we've seen time and again so many shootings.
WHITFIELD: OK. And Professor, I'm going to get to you too. But let's listen in, because the judge is just now entering which also may mean that soon instructions and soon of the suspect, let's listen in for a moment.
JUDGE CURRIE MINGLEDROFF, BARROW COUNTY, GEORGIA: -- proceedings. We're here for limited purpose this morning. I do want to note for everyone's benefit that there is, as everyone certainly is aware considerable interest in what has occurred in our community in the last several days.
For that reason, the court has seen fit under rule 22 of the Spirit Court, Uniform Superior Court rules to allow media outlets to record some of these proceedings. However, under those rules, the court has set in place certain limitations.
[08:35:00]
And I just want everyone to know that the media has been informed of that, and I'm confident that they will comply with that. But otherwise, there is to be no filming or recording by any members of the public or any other individual other than those authorized specifically by the court in its signed ruling. Are we ready Counsel to begin and bring the defendant in?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- right --
MINGLEDROFF: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Defense is ready.
MINGLEDROFF: All right. All right, good morning, sir. Are you Mr. Colt Gray? My name is Currie Mingledroff I'm assigned to preside over this morning's proceedings. Mr. Gray, I do need to inquire as to whether you're able to read and write the English language.
All right. I also want to inform you well I want to ask you; do you understand that you have the right to be represented by an attorney in these proceedings? And you are, in fact, represented today. Is that correct? And Mr. Zane Harmon, you're here on behalf of this defendant. Is that right?
ZANE HARMON, ATTORNEY: Yes, sir.
MINGLEDROFF: All right. And you understand you have the right to be continuously represented throughout this proceeding, and if you cannot afford to be, to hire counsel, and this court is obligated under constitution to provide counsel for you without cost to you.
All right, I am going to inform you of a few other matters, and I'm not going to ask you anything, just inform you. So one is, I want to make sure that you are aware that you have the right to remain silent. You don't have to say anything at all, and it's important to understand that, because anything you might say, could be used against you at further proceedings associated with your case.
I want to inform you of the charges that you currently face. In essence, you are charged with four counts of felony murder, as outlined in a state warrants that have been issued against you. I want to make you aware that the maximum penalty for felony murder so for each count, the maximum penalty is that you could be punishable by death, by imprisonment for life without parole, or by imprisonment for life with the possibility of parole.
If you have any questions about these charges, then I would urge you to discuss those with your attorney. I would invite you, Mr. Harmon, to inform the court as to whether there's a request for bond at this time.
HARMON: At this time, Your Honor, there is not a request for bond. We will file the appropriate motions if that becomes necessary.
MINGLEDROFF: All right, an indictment by the grand jury for most felony offenses or accusations. Well, you have the right to receive an indictment for these offenses. And I assume Mr. Brad Smith is here on behalf of the DA's office, or he is our district attorney, so and he's accompanied by Ms. Patricia Brooks, who is his chief assistant.
A preliminary hearing, you'll have the right also to a preliminary hearing unless you make bond, which, of course, at this point, there's no bond being requested, or unless you waive such a hearing. You have the right to a speedy and public trial by a judge or jury.
You have the right to confront and cross examine all witnesses. You have the right to call witnesses on your own behalf and testify in your own defense, if you so choose. As you sit here in this courtroom today under the law, you are presumed innocent.
Your refusal to testify at any point in any proceeding will not be used against you in determining whether you are guilty or not guilty. Counsel, let me just inquire as to there, whether there are any other items that the court should address before we conclude this preliminary hearing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Inaudible) I do have one piece of information to convey to the court. There was a development yesterday afternoon that makes it necessary for our office to have alternate Council appointed and arranged. Have already been made in that regard to explain that to Mr. Gray Alternate Council will be appointed by the end of the day today.
MINGLEDROFF: All right. Thank you very much Ms. Donna C Grapes.
[08:40:00]
All right, then with that, this hearing is concluded, and you may escort this defended out.
WHITFIELD: All right, just the beginning and the end of a very short proceeding their arraignment of this young man, 14-year-old, Colt Gray. We heard the Judge Currie Mingledroff, essentially let him know and give him instructions about saying anything in court that would be held against him later on if he had a clear understanding of the charges, and that he's represented there by that attorney.
Our Josh Campbell is back with us. Professor Jeff Swartz back with us as well. I mean, very serious charges. I mean -- I mean, I think we all knew there were very serious charges, but just to hear the judge, then let this young man know that the maximum penalty here was death, imprisonment for life with or without parole.
I mean, this is very grave, very serious. Four people were killed at his school. He's accused of, you know, of firing the weapon that led to the deaths of two fellow students and two teachers. And this is just the arraignment hearing for this young man. Later, a similar hearing will involve his father, who is accused of helping to supply the weapon there.
Ultimately, is this, the kind of trial Professor where we will see the father, who is facing charges, possibly testify against his son, and vice versa?
SWARTZ: It's possible, but it depends upon. They don't really need the father to testify against him. They need him to testify against the father, more likely than not, but I don't think they're going to deal with him. He's not really looking at death. The Supreme Court's made it abundantly clear that that's not a penalty that can be assessed against someone of his age -- WHITFIELD: Even though he is being tried as an adult.
SWARTZ: Yes. The only way you can get death is as an adult, anyway. So, the fact of the matter is that that just is not in the cards for this young man. It may not even be in the cards for him to get life without parole. The Supreme Court has ruled that only under certain circumstances can you improve -- impugn life without parole on someone who's only 14-years-old.
So, there are matters. Now, in the Crumbley case, he got life without parole. I don't know whether that will stand up on appeal or not, and that might happen to this young man. You know, a lot of the rights that should be read to a defendant at this particular first appearance hearing was not read to him, but I don't think it's anything fatal.
They'll take care of it at the next proceeding, when he is actually arraigned on his indictment. And I anticipate that will happen within the next week to 10 days, and the same thing will go for the father. This is a really sad situation. And I -- when I look at a child of 14- years-old, a freshman in high school, being told you're going to spend the rest of your life in prison is really difficult.
And obviously he's a very troubled child, and a lot of things will come out at trial regarding just the kind of upbringing that he's got, he's received from his father. And I think that's going to act as evidence against the father as to what type of father he has been and what he has encouraged him to do?
I think you brought up one point earlier. You know, an AR-15 is not a hunting rifle. I don't care what the NRA says, unless you want to blow up what you're hunting. I mean, that's literally what happens with the kind of ammunition that comes out of an AR-15. And taking a kid out there to literally blow-up animals is not something you want to encourage a 14-year-old to do.
WHITFIELD: Yeah, it just --
SWARTZ: So, I have some real strong feelings about this. I really do. We've gone through this before with the Crumbley case.
WHITFIELD: Right. I mean, it is so sad. I mean, let's remind people were of the among the four who were killed Wednesday, Christian and these are 14-year-old his fellow 14-year-old students, Christian Angulo, Mason Schermerhorn, two teachers, 53-year-old math teacher, Cristina Irimie and 39-year-old Assistant Football Coach, Richard Aspenwall.
You know Josh when we only get to see the back of the head of this 14- year-old kid, Colt Gray, and he's listening to the charges against him.
[08:45:00]
Here is his mug shot. You know, one has to wonder what is going through his mind at this point, let alone what was going through his mind on Wednesday, when he -- you know is now facing charges for opening fire there at his school.
You know, this has to be very difficult for everyone involved here. I mean, everyone there in court, very stoic. It's very somber, it's very sad. Family members of the victims of the shooting are there, I understand in the -- in the first row of this arraignment hearing, even?
CAMBPELL: No, you're right. And you know, I've been in these hearings involving mass shooters, where you actually get to see them for yourself. Certainly, Judge Swartz has sat before many defendants who are having their day in court. And you know, this is the great equalizer of the U.S. justice system, that everybody is presumed innocent until proven guilty.
But this is the process, as you know, the law outlines. There was this question, as you mentioned, about -- you know this individual being tried as an adult in the State of Georgia, and you know, other places, if a juvenile is alleged to have committed offense where the punishment can be death or life imprisonment, that then means the individual will be tried as an adult, as an adult.
But as the judge mentioned, there's a question about -- you know how strenuous the penalties would actually be here? And what's so interesting in these cases, particularly involving children, and as you mentioned Fred, and as the judge mentioned as well. I mean, all around this is certainly a tragedy.
When you look at what the law does, there to punish, and it's there to deter, certainly to punish someone for their crimes in this case. I mean, I'm not taking anything away from the fact that this suspect is charged with very serious offenses, taking the lives of others this very deadly, tragic shooting.
But you have to wonder about the other side of the coin, and that's the deterrence aspect, and how that impacts a child. You know, I've talked to pediatricians who have described, particularly, you know, children that engage in violence. They're at the state where their brains are still -- you know forming.
So, you have to wonder what the deterrent aspect is. But certainly, this is a process that will be lengthy. And one thing that we watched before, finally, is whether there's some type of plea agreement that comes out of this.
WHITFIELD: Oh, interesting. And so, yeah, Professor, do you see something like that, a plea agreement that could --
SWARTZ: Yeah.
WHITFIELD: You do in what way? What would be the -- what are the possible -- possibilities of that?
SWARTZ: It obviously is going to take the concurrence of the victim's families. But in the long run, yes, they can convict him, but what would the penalties be at 14-years-old, that they could withstand constitutional challenges? I kind of suspect that if an agreement was made for him to get life
for the four deaths and with the possibility of parole, but that doesn't mean he would be paroled. It would take decades before they would ever even think about it. I think that that would be something to save the families having to listen to all the details and go through all of this.
It may be something they're considering to the same extent some people want the retribution. They think somehow or another that's going to make things better for them, and it only really prolongs the tragedy. So -- you know I worked as a defense attorney.
I worked as a prosecutor. I've seen all sides of every kind of case, and I can only tell you that these are the really heartbreaking ones, where you have to deal with a child who's accused of killing other children? Yeah, it just doesn't work out for anybody.
WHITFIELD: It really doesn't.
SWARTZ: It really doesn't.
WHITFIELD: I mean, it's just -- it's just so sad. It really is. I mean, I think we continue to look at the live pictures here in the courtroom of Judge Mingledroff, because while the judge is not there, while we know that the arraignment just took place for 14-year-old Colt Gray.
You also saw as the camera panned before it planned to this empty chair, you saw a lot of people who were there in the courtroom, and we've been told that these are family members of victims, people who were impacted by the shooting on Wednesday, and they all appear to be waiting for something else to be happening here.
We understand that there may be more court activity here. Might that mean Professor, in your view, via arraignment of the father or 54- year-old Colin Gray, that that could happen soon after the arraignment of Colt Gray there?
SWARTZ: Yeah, I think that that's probably what we're waiting for, is for his first appearance to take place.
[08:50:00]
I wanted to add something --
WHITFIELD: Yes.
SWARTZ: -- I think people aren't really recognizing there are more charges that can be brought against both of these people.
WHITFIELD: Like what?
SWARTZ: And that is as it relates to the people who were injured, I think there were nine people shot.
WHITFIELD: Right. SWARTZ: I don't think there's any. I think there's a couple still in the hospital. Everybody else has been released, if I recall correctly. But those charges are attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon, aggravated battery. Those charges have not been brought yet.
And I don't know whether the prosecution is going to go forward with those at this point or not, but I think that makes up for all of those people that are in that courtroom, all those families.
WHITFIELD: Right. Because one more time, I'll just reiterate for people who may just now be joining us. Colin Gray, the father of the 14-year-old Colt, the charges as we understand right now that he is facing. He has been -- he was arrested yesterday. You're seeing the mugshot of him now. He's 54-years-old.
He is facing four counts of involuntary manslaughter, two counts of second-degree murder, and eight counts of cruelty to children. He is not alleged to have been present during that shooting at the high school a couple of days ago. But largely Jeff Swartz, because police say he provided the weapon. He provided the AR to his son.
It was a Christmas gift, or some there -- somewhere thereabouts, in December, a Christmas gift. The dad is recorded in a previous conversation on a wellness check as saying, yes, they hunt, and that his son is familiar with the handling of guns. Now, he doesn't store the weapons loaded. But shortly thereafter, a gift in the form of an AR was provided.
SWARTZ: Right. It should be noted that the two counts of cruelty to children relate to the charge of murder. That's what makes it murder. But the four counts of involuntary manslaughter include those two children and the two members of the faculty who were killed.
They are duplicative, and so he can't be sentenced consecutive on those there, the prosecution, at this point is laying out all the charges they can possibly make. The remaining cruelty to children charges relate to the other children and the other victims who were shot.
I don't know how they're going to attach that to the father, because it's not like manslaughter, and there was no action taken by him or failure to do a duty that they could attach to him that resulted in those injuries. So, I don't know how far those are going to go.
I'd have to do a little bit more research into Georgia law to find out how they're going to put that together. But they threw the book at him, and I think that to a certain extent, the prosecution is recognizing that the father, in their minds, may be more at fault than the 14-year-old child who pulled the trigger.
WHITFIELD: And Jeff Swartz, you mentioned, you know, the among those injured. Nine were injured while they are expected to make a full recovery. Yeah, gunshot wounds -- you know I mean full recovery. That's all relative, right? Because -- you know we're talking -- and you're talking about that kind of weaponry that you just described. I mean, that's -- you know that's destructive. There were six students
among the people injured, six students, a teacher who were shot. And then there were two more students who suffered injuries as well. Unclear exactly the extent of the injury.
So that -- you know underscores the other charges that could come because we're talking about -- you know injuries that could be life changing, even though they may have been released from the hospital, life changing injuries.
SWARTZ: Right. Anybody who gets shot in any kind of injury like that will tell you that there's a recovery period, and no one is ever really quiet the same.
WHITFIELD: Right.
SWARTZ: I don't know how they were shot. If they are released, they were released the same day. So, the injuries may be not as serious as the one as the couple who are still in and suffered some very serious injuries. But it's still it's a traumatic thing, and people don't realize that it's not just the physical injury, it's the after effects.
You've got 14-year-old children who were injured and shot, and how do they go back to school? How do they do a lot of things? I just -- you just got to look at -- you know they're tearing down a school in Parkland Florida simply because the kids won't go there anymore.
WHITFIELD: Right, understandably. And Josh Campbell, we talk about traumatic injuries, not just for those who are directly impacted. You know, those who were injured, family members of those who were injured or killed.
[08:55:00]
But you know it's traumatic too for law enforcement who responded for school security, which braces itself for something like this to happen. But of course, no one really knows. You know how traumatic it's going to be until it happens.
I mean, describe for me, if you could give you -- known formally with law enforcement, I guess with formerly with law enforcement, always with law enforcement. A lot of your colleagues -- you know who you continue to be in contact with -- you know at the FBI. But tell me you know about how traumatizing it is for them as well, and what the recovery is like?
CAMBPELL: Yeah, so you know, those who sign up for law enforcement to wear a badge, to wear a gun to protect others, you do that with a certain amount of risk that's baked in every single day whenever you start your job. You know that you may not go home that day, but that is the profession, and that's what they sign up for.
But nevertheless, as you point out so often, law enforcement themselves are also victims of psychological wounds. In this case, you can only imagine how many more children and teachers may have been killed, but for the brave actions of those two school resource officers who are on scene, who confronted the gunman.
This is an instance where there was an exchange -- was not an exchange of gunfire. He surrendered without incident. But you know, certainly they put their own lives on the line in order to try to stop that shooter. And we've seen, in some cases, a lot of officers didn't make it out. They died in the process.
WHITFIELD: And it can -- it can be right -- and it can never be lost that you're talking about a kid.
CAMBPELL: Right.
WHITFIELD: Imagine, you know you're looking at the kid of a four -- a 14-year-old. Josh Campbell, Jeff Swartz, thanks to both of you. Really appreciate it. Thank you everyone for joining us. I'm Fredricka Whitfield, we have much more of our coverage of this proceeding and more straight ahead.
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