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CNN International: Accused Georgia School Shooter Appears In Court; Trump Appeals In E. Jean Carroll Civil Verdict; Today: Judge To Decide If He Will Delay Trump Hush Money Sentencing. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired September 06, 2024 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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RAHEL SOLOMON, HOST, "CNN NEWSROOM": Good morning or good evening, depending on where you're watching. I'm Rahel Solomon live in New York.
Ahead on CNN NEWSROOM, the 14-year-old gunman accused of killing two students and two teachers in Georgia faces a judge for the first time. We're going to have the latest in the investigation here. Plus, the latest U.S. jobs report is out. What it tells us about the strength of the economy? And we're live in North Carolina, where ballots for the 2024 November election are scheduled to start going out, but there is already controversy growing.
I want to begin with that deadly Georgia school shooting. The 14-year- old boy accused in that shooting just made his first appearance in court. Colt Gray, who you see here, sat silently before the judge while families of the victim sat behind him in the courtroom. Police have charged Gray with murdering two students and two teachers at his high school on Wednesday. The local sheriff says that he confessed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERIFF JUD SMITH, BARROW COUNTY, GEORGIA: I saw Colt in custody with handcuffs on. He is cooperating with as far as aware.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Still talking?
SMITH: He is still talking. He was -- he described, I did it. But, the thing that goes that we're trying to figure out, as a 14-year-old, why? Why would you do this?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOLOMON: Now, Gray's father also faces charges in connection to his son's alleged actions. Colin Gray also appeared in a Georgia courtroom just a short time ago. He faces four counts of involuntary manslaughter and two counts of second-degree murder, along with eight counts of cruelty to children. Now, according to law enforcement sources, he bought the gun used in the shooting last December as a Christmas gift for his son. That's when he bought it. The purchase was made despite both father and son being questioned in May of 2023 about alleged online threats potentially related to guns.
CNN has obtained the interview where the father assures police that the guns in his house are not a safety issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have weapons in the house?
COLIN GRAY, FATHER OF COLT GRAY, ACCUSED IN APALACHEE HIGH SCHOOL SHOOTING: I do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are they accessible to him?
GRAY: They are. I mean, there is nothing loaded but they are down. We actually -- we do a lot of shooting. We do a lot of deer hunting. He shot his first deer this year, you know. So, like, I'm pretty much in shock, to be honest with you. Well, I'm a little pissed off to be even really honest with you if that is what was said.
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SOLOMON: All right. Let me bring in CNN Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst, John Miller, who joins us from New York. John, good to have you. Let's first talk about this hearing for the son, Colt. What happened here?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, the hearing was dramatic and yet uneventful at the same time, a 14- year-old boy called Gray sat there with a court-appointed lawyer and heard the charges against him, four counts of murder, additional charges, and was told at one point by the judge that among all the years in prison that he could face for these charges, he was also eligible for the death penalty. That turned out to be factually incorrect. The judge had to call him back into the courtroom and reflective of a United States Supreme Court ruling, say that actually juveniles are not subject to the death penalty even if they are being tried as an adult. So, that was corrected for the record. No plea was entered, and the hearing was fairly brief beyond that.
SOLOMON: And John, what about the shooter's parents? What more can you share with us about that development?
MILLER: So, that is a troubled background with the parents. His father, Colin, who, as you reported, is also charged basically for the negligence of allegedly giving his son that weapon and allowing access to weapons and ammunition in the home. There was a contentious divorce. There was a bitter custody battle for the three children, where Colt ended up living with his father, not his mother. The mother was arrested on drug charges. She is wanted on warrants for not answering to the court appearances for those charges now.
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So, what you see is a troubled child growing up in a troubled home, who, on his second day of school, did this shooting at a new school, who, after leaving his last school, was embroiled in this report where he had threatened to do a school shooting in May of 2023. So, there was a lot going on in the background here. And there will be questions about, why wasn't this spotted? Why weren't there interventions that were more effective with this young man?
SOLOMON: Yeah. It's striking, John, I think, sometimes when you cover a lot of these -- the similarities you see in some of these cases.
John Miller, we will leave it here, but I'm sure we'll talk again soon. Thank you.
MILLER: Thanks, Rahel.
SOLOMON: Well, from the campaign trail back to the courthouse. In a hearing that just wrapped up last hour, Donald Trump appeared in a New York courtroom, this time to appeal a civil jury's verdict that he sexually abused and defamed writer E. Jean Carroll. Now, his attorneys are trying to have the $5 million judgment against him tossed out and to get a new trial. They argue the jury should not have been allowed to hear evidence from two other women who claimed Trump also sexually assaulted them. The decision was issued after the hearing. But, separately, the judge in the former President's hush money trial is expected to decide today whether to delay sentencing in that case until after the November election.
CNN Senior Crime and Justice Reporter Katelyn Polantz has been tracking all of this for us. Katelyn, let's just start with what you've been hearing from inside of the courtroom.
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Yeah. So, this is an appeals court where there is no cameras inside, but Donald Trump himself was there, as was E. Jean Carroll, the columnist that he has been found liable for sexually assaulting or abusing and defaming in the 1990s. What happened there in that case is that the jury heard evidence from two different women, and they also heard the Access Hollywood tape played for them, and they used that in deciding that E. Jean Carroll should be awarded $5 million of Donald Trump's money as the verdict.
Now, what Trump has done in this case, in the appeal, has said that those other women who talked about how he may have lunged at them or allegedly had sexual contact with them at other times, and how he spoke about women on that Access Hollywood tape, that the jury shouldn't have heard any of that. His argument to the appeals court was that the trial judge should not have allowed any of that into the trial.
And it was a short hearing today, Rahel, before the Second Circuit. Three judges there on the panel. They had a couple of questions about, why were those things, those other women's testimony and the Access Hollywood tape, why was that part of the pattern? Was that how it should have been brought into the trial? They didn't make a decision today, though, and there were no substantive comments from either E. Jean Carroll or Donald Trump upon exiting the courthouse. We'll get a decision at a later date, probably in several weeks, if not months.
SOLOMON: Katelyn, what about the hush money case? I mean, talk to us a little bit about what we can expect there and when we might get a decision there.
POLANTZ: Yeah. So, this is Donald Trump lined up for sentencing on the 34 criminal counts of falsifying business records related to his business and sending money to keep Stormy Daniels, the adult film star, quiet. This criminal case, it's set for sentencing. He is convicted. That sentencing is set for September 18th.
And so, right now, Donald Trump's lawyers are waiting this decision from the judge on whether that sentencing will happen on that date, or if Judge Juan Merchan in New York will say, no, I'm willing to put it off after the election. The prosecutor's office, the Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg, he said that they don't have an issue with moving the sentencing date later, as Trump's team has requested. But, we will have to see exactly what Judge Merchan does there, if he wants to sentence the former president on September 18th or at a later time, a really big question, especially when there is the possibility of some jail time in this case.
SOLOMON: Absolutely. And what makes it more interesting is you have the prosecutor here saying, we don't object. I mean, we're just sort of out of this. We'll let the judge decide.
Katelyn Polantz, thank you.
All right. Let's take a quick look at the Dow big board and how the markets are reacting to a brand new jobs report. The Dow is off about 250 points. Let's call it six tenths of a percent. With less than 60 days before the election, these new jobs numbers do give us a sense of sort of where the labor market is. It is also the last jobs report before the Fed meets again in about a week and a half. Labor Department says that 142,000 jobs were added in August. Now, that is lower than estimates, but it also represents something of a bounce back from July's weak numbers. The unemployment rate fell slightly to 4.2 percent.
Let's bring in now, from New York, CNN's Julia Chatterley to break down this report for us. So, Julia, what do we learn here?
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN ANCHOR, FIRST MOVE: It's a slowing jobs market.
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That's the bottom line, Rahel, and we know that. Within that, I would call it a solid report. The problem is, it's not solid enough to address the questions over whether the Federal Reserve will ultimately cut a quarter of a percentage point this month or a half a percentage point. So, the speculation will continue.
But, to your point, it was slightly weaker on that top line number, 142,000 jobs added net. We are still adding jobs, and that's important. Better news on the unemployment rate, slightly lower than we got last month at 4.2 percent, and remember, that was what created a lot of the fear factor over potential recession risks last month. A lot of people that were on temporary layoff, came back into the workforce. So, that's good news. Where we were adding the jobs, places like healthcare, construction, we lost some jobs in manufacturing. Reading even deeper into the lines, we saw a little bit of strength in wages. Nothing to worry, the Federal Reserve on an inflationary basis, and people continued to work around the same level of hours.
So, these are sort of good signs within what is, and I reiterate, a slowing market. The question really now is, for borrowers out there, Rahel, that are listening, how much of a cut do they get later this month? Because really, that's what they care about.
SOLOMON: Absolutely. And for those of us, myself included, who are in the market for a home right now, we are sort of bracing for this next meeting in a week and a half. But, Julia, just give us a sense on where traders stand after this report crossed. I mean, what are we looking at? What is the expectation for this September meeting, and even beyond, for the rest of this year?
CHATTERLEY: That's a great question, 50:50, I think, just about on whether we get a quarter of a percentage point cut or a half a percentage point cut. We did just hear from one of the Fed governors making comments this morning, and everybody is going to be watching what they say very closely for their next 24 hours. Christopher Wallace said he is open to the size of the cut. So, again, a little bit more optimism, perhaps, that they'll do more rather than less.
I'll go out on a limb and say, I think they do a quarter of a percentage point cut. I think still, even with the data that we have today, there'll be nervousness, if they go more than that with people questioning, what do they know perhaps that we don't? That doesn't mean they haven't got the room to cut, but I think they'll do a quarter of a percentage point this month and then keep going. This is not one and done. This is going to be one of several.
SOLOMON: Yeah. It's an interesting point, Julia, because, I mean, you talk to economists and they say, look, the difference between a quarter of a percent or half a percentage point, it's not huge in terms of the Fed. It might be huge for borrowers, but not huge in terms of the Fed. But, you have to think about what it signifies or what it could potentially symbolize to folks who are watching this very closely, if they do cut more aggressively on the front end, like you said, what do they see? And so, that you have to think about sort of the impact of that as well.
CHATTERLEY: Yeah. And also remember, just because the Fed does something it doesn't mean that the market itself doesn't move and adjust accordingly already. So, people are already seeing and we've seen it, and you and I have talked about it, mortgage rates coming down as a result of expectations of something that the Federal Reserve do beyond what they physically will do on September 18th.
I think politically, it's another important point to make here, Rahel, very quickly. Both campaigns will make something of this, the fact that we're still adding jobs for the Harris campaign, the fact that we should be adding more jobs, arguably, and the economy could be stronger on the Trump side, but cutting interest rates right before a presidential election at the margin, I think, does help the Harris campaign and obviously the White House as a result.
SOLOMON: Super fascinating. Julia Chatterley, great to see you. Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Thank you.
SOLOMON: Let's go beyond the numbers now and welcome in Nela Richardson. She is the Chief Economist for ADP. Nela, always good to see you on a jobs Friday. Your top line reaction to this report today.
NELA RICHARDSON, CHIEF ECONOMIST, ADP: I think it fits with the narrative we've been seeing at ADP this whole time, which is the slaver market is undoubtedly cooling, that hiring is slowing, and I would argue that hiring is a little weaker than what we would view as normal. We saw a bit of a bounce back from July to August. But overall, there has been this gradual downward trip reflecting weaker than normal hiring.
SOLOMON: So, that's really interesting, Nela, because one of my questions to you was, at what point do we move beyond normalizing to actually looking at signs of weakness? I mean, would you say that were that yet?
RICHARDSON: This is a very deep and complex labor market in the U.S. And I think there is one sector that we can absolutely say has not rebounded, and that is manufacturing spend weak (ph), and it picks up a trend that we saw before the pandemic. We saw this sector, manufacturing, shedding jobs for six straight months heading into the pandemic, and the weakness in manufacturing was masked over the last four years by the dominance of service employment and by all the gyrations we saw as a result of the pandemic. But, what we're seeing now is a labor market that is not at full strength.
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It's missing a key sector. Manufacturing continues to be a weak point, and I think that is going to weaken and underlie this weaker than normal hiring that we've seen this time.
SOLOMON: And so, Nela, I mean, how does the Fed make sense of this in terms of what the right next step is? The Mortgage Bankers Association put out a statement this morning after the report, saying they think 25 basis points or a quarter of a percentage point is the most sensible thing to do. I mean, how do you see it?
RICHARDSON: I think this is a Fed that continues to be data dependent. They don't stop being data dependent just because they start cutting rates. And that, to me, underlies a more moderated approach, something that the Fed is very comfortable with. It's in their playbook. We've seen it in past free cutting cycles where it's a very moderate quarter basis point cut at subsequent meetings. So, I still think that we're in that camp. I still think that this is a soft landing. We are not losing jobs, as was pointed out just now. We're still gaining jobs, just at a slower rate.
SOLOMON: I want to read for you something, Nela, Citi said that got my attention. This crossed a short time ago. It said that today's figures line up with other signals that the job market is continuing to soften, a classic sign that the U.S. economy is headed into a recession. Do you agree with that, Nela?
RICHARDSON: There has been calls for a recession for the past two to three years, and eventually, somebody is going to be right, but without a date and a time kind of thing. Yes, the economy has this business cycle. Usually a recession, though, is triggered by a Fed action. It's triggered by the Fed raising interest rates too high and slowing the economy down too much. We're about to go into a rate cutting cycle, not a rate hiking cycle. And so, it's hard for me to square pretty solid, though, a bit weaker labor market. Unemployment rate below five percent actually ticking down this month, still solid job gains, still low initial jobless claims, which signal low layoffs, and a Fed that's prepared to cut, whether quarter basis or 50 basis points, but prepared to cut with any imminent recession.
SOLOMON: Yeah. I'm glad you brought up jobless claims, because that was something too that -- it's just -- I mean, we have seen data that continues to show weakening and softening, but then you get these jobless claims every Thursday morning, and they continue to be quite low. And so, I mean, by all accounts, at least by that account, people are not filing for unemployment benefits. They are not being laid off, at least broadly speaking.
Nela Richardson, always great to have your insights and perspective. Thank you.
RICHARDSON: Thanks for having me.
SOLOMON: Yeah. Well, just ahead, drone video appears to show Ukrainian soldiers being executed after they have surrendered. We're going to have detailed reporting on what Ukrainian officials say is part of a larger pattern. Plus, undersea cables are a critical piece of the world's communication infrastructure, but they may not be safe from sabotage. We have exclusive reporting on what the U.S. says it's detected.
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SOLOMON: Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is urging Kyiv's international allies to follow through with their delivery of promised air defenses and to do it quickly. Speaking earlier at Ramstein Air Base in Germany, where he met with the U.S. Defense Secretary, Mr. Zelenskyy said that the weapons systems are essential to hold back Russian forces, and he warned of what he calls a, quote, "significant shortfall in vital aid."
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VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: The number of air defense systems that have not yet been delivered is significant. This is what was agreed upon and this is what was -- what has not been fully implemented. The world has enough air defense systems to ensure that Russian terror does not have results. And I urge you to be more active in this work with us on air defense.
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SOLOMON: Meantime, CNN has obtained exclusive drone video that appears to show Ukrainian soldiers being executed after they have surrendered. It's one of several incidents being investigated by the Ukrainian Prosecutor General, who says that such instances have become a pattern and constitute war crimes.
We have team coverage for you. Jim Sciutto is in Washington, who I believe we have. We also have Nick Paton Walsh, who is in London.
Nick, let me actually start with you, because you have some exclusive reporting, as we said, of Ukrainian soldiers being executed. What more can you share with us?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Look, we came across this video in the last couple of weeks, and today, Ukrainian prosecutors have said, as a result of our reporting, they will be launching an investigation into what they say is an incident on the 26th of August in the Pokrovsk area. And the video you're about to see is one of a number of videos that we've seen in past months, part of evidence we've been hearing as well of this disturbing new trend, it seems, gathering in pace, in which Russian troops execute Ukrainian soldiers who were trying to surrender rather than taking them prisoner. Here is what we saw, and I must warn you, there are some disturbing images in this report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WALSH (voice-over): The scene all too common on Ukraine's imperiled eastern front, smoke billowing, a position overrun, Ukrainian troops staggering out, appearing to surrender to advancing Russians. A brief close-up on Ukrainian drone video seen here for the first time, shows them on their knees.
The drone operators ask each other for a better view, and then, seconds later, it is too late, the three fall to the ground, dust nearby, suggesting gunfire executed in cold blood, a Ukrainian official familiar with the incident said, despite hoping to be taken prisoner by the Russians.
It is from near the besieged city of Pokrovsk in late August, the source said, the hottest spot on the front now where Russia is persistently advancing and follows a horrific pattern. Prosecutors say they're investigating a total of 28 cases in which 62 Ukrainian soldiers were killed after surrender on the battlefield.
ANDRIY KOSTIN, PROSECUTOR GENERAL OF UKRAINE: If prisoners of war surrender, if they show that they surrender, if they are without weapons in their hand -- in their hands, then some of the execution is the war crime.
WALSH (voice-over): It has worsened in the past 10 months. CNN obtaining from Ukrainian intelligence officials a detailed list of 15 incidents, most backed up by drone video or audio intercepts. WALSH: Now, United Nations investigators have scrutinized many of
these killings, and a UN investigative source said to me, quote, "There are many. There is a pattern, and the killings are war crimes individually," they said in their opinion, and together, could amount to crimes against humanity.
WALSH (voice-over): And near Robotyne, the site of some of the fiercest fighting this year in Zaporizhzhia, another Ukrainian drone filmed in May, these images that are upsetting to watch. Ukrainian soldiers emerge one by one from the dugout. Ukraine's defense intelligence said they intercepted the Russian commander's order to execute or zero them, and gave us this transcript. Take them (BEEP) down, (BEEP) zero them, take them, zero them, the officer says. Got it, plus, comes the reply. Once you zero them, report back, he adds. Once they're all out, face down. The Russians fire. The Ukrainians we spoke to left asking, why, to just terrify them, or is it simply sport for the Russians?
PETRO YATSENKO, UKRAINIAN COORDINATION CENTER FOR THE TREATMENT OF POWS: The main reason is to made Russian soldiers believe they -- it's very dangerous to surrender to Ukrainian forces because Ukrainian soldiers will kill them, like Russians killing Ukrainian prisoners of war. This force them not to surrender, but go forward to their deaths.
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WALSH (voice-over): A horror, not always publicized or fully accounted for, yet being felt steadily by Ukrainians, as they struggle to hold the Eastern line.
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WALSH: And I should point out, we have reached out to the Russian Ministry of Defense for comment about these cases, and received at this point no reply. But, Ukrainian prosecutors today said that they updated their numbers to 73 killed in instances like this, and I think that brings them to about 30 incidents they're investigating as well. A dilemma, though, for Ukrainian commanders. We understand from the conversations we've had that there are more cases than this that are made necessarily public or investigated, but they have an impact on Ukrainian morale. So, do commanders publicize them, spread the word amongst their troops to make them wary of this potential event, or indeed to make the rest of the world more wary of Russia's increasing brutality as this war drags on? Back to you.
SOLOMON: Wow. Just an incredible decision for them to make there. Nick Paton Walsh, thank you. Important reporting there.
Let me bring in now CNN Anchor and Chief National Security Analyst, Jim Sciutto, who joins us from Washington. Jim, good to see you. Talk to us a little bit about -- you have some exclusive reporting on the Russian military. What can you share with us there?
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF U.S. SECURITY ANALYST: This is something that the U.S. and its allies are extremely concerned about. I'm told exclusively by two U.S. officials that the U.S. has detected increased Russian activity over key undersea cables, which carry large portion of the world's communications, internet traffic, business, etc. And it's the U.S. view that Russia may be more likely to carry out sabotage attacks on these cables, that their decision calculus for ordering such an attack has changed, making one more likely.
This is how a U.S. official described it to me, and I'm quoting here, "We are concerned about heightened Russian naval activity worldwide and that Russia's decision calculus for damaging U.S. and allied undersea critical infrastructure may be changing." The U.S. believes that Russia has been adding new and greater resources to a key and quite secretive Russian military unit dedicated to this very task. That unit is known as the General Staff Main Directorate for Deep Sea Research. It goes by the Russian initials GUGI, and it has a formidable fleet around the world of surface ships, submarines and naval drones, not just to map and carry out reconnaissance on these undersea cables, but if ordered to carry out attacks that would sabotage them. It is quite a concern. It would have enormous consequences globally.
SOLOMON: And Jim, talk to us a little bit about that, because I think --
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
SOLOMON: -- I mean, first of all, I think just the existence of these cables is probably news to a lot of people, but also talk to us about the impact, what it could be if there were an attack on some of these undersea cables.
SCIUTTO: Listen, undersea cables have been around for more than a century, carrying telephone traffic, but in recent years and decades, they now web the globe, and they carry the vast majority of internet traffic, communications in Europe. Undersea cables also carry energy among northern European countries' electricity. It is -- and because it carries those communications, that information, etc., whole industries rely on them, the financial markets, the energy industry, commerce, etc. So, if you were to sabotage them, even some of them, as you see this web of them around the world, you would cause enormous economic consequences, but also disruption for you and me. There are things we wouldn't be able to do anymore as a result of that, and we would see economic costs, for instance, in the financial markets, etcetera.
So, it would be -- it's why it is called critical civilian infrastructure, and it is why U.S. officials, as they've monitored this, tell me that they would consider such an attack by Russia a significant escalation, and one that they would find quite dangerous now, given events in Europe and all the other places around the world where the U.S. and Russia are coming into conflict. I should note, it's not just Russia that operates vessels such as this. China does as well, and such Chinese ships and activity have been seen around Taiwan precisely for the same reason.
SOLOMON: Yeah, just really -- you lay out well there, Jim, why the U.S. would be so concerned.
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
SOLOMON: Jim Sciutto, thank you for that exclusive report.
SCIUTTO: Thank you.
SOLOMON: All right. Ahead this hour, a fire in a Kenyan primary school dormitory has led to the death of 17 students. We're going to have a look at what happened. Plus, Israel is pulling out of parts of the West Bank. Coming up, what local residents are saying and Israel's plans for the next phase of its operations, when we come back.
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SOLOMON: Welcome back. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Rahel Solomon live in New York, and here are some of the international headlines we're watching for you today.
After 12 weeks in space, the Boeing Starliner is set to return to Earth, but without its crew. The spacecraft will undock from the International Space Station this evening before the six-hour flight back home. Last month, NASA announced that they were concerned about gas leaks and propulsion issues on the capsule. So, the astronauts who rode the Starliner, Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams, will remain on the ISS until February.
Pope Francis is in Papua New Guinea, the second country in his tour of Southeast Asia and the Pacific. He is set to meet with a group of Catholic missionaries, where he will emphasize his vision of the church working with the marginalized. This is the farthest the Pope has traveled during his time as pontiff.
One of this year's most powerful typhoons has slammed into the Chinese holiday island of Hainan. Winds are expected to hit speeds of 230 kilometers per hour, or 140 miles per hour. Damage to trees and buildings as well as flooding is expected. This is the strongest typhoon to make landfall in the area in 10 years.
And at least 17 students have died in central Kenya. This is after a fire ripped through a primary school dormitory. 14 students were also injured. Now, the cause of the fire is not yet known, but concerns have been raised in the past about safety concerns in Kenyan dormitories.
CNN's Larry Madowo reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This nighttime fire at a school in central Kenya happening in a dorm that housed 156 school boys. These are elementary school kids, primary schools, as they're called in Kenya, younger than 13-years-old, most of them, at least 17 burnt beyond recognition. According to authorities, at least 14 still receiving treatment.
A lot of questions for the parents and for the community about how something like this could have happened. Parents rushing to the scene to try and come to terms with it. Authorities have set up a tracing desk to help them find their loved ones, those who are in hospital. They're also offering counseling services, as investigators begin to piece through that scene, homicide detectives using forensic analysis to try and figure out what exactly happened here. The Kenya Red Cross saying local residents were the first to get there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (Interpreted): We say thank you to local residents for your quick response. If you had not arrived as fast as you did, the loss would have been even greater. Safety and rescue begins with us.
MADOWO: The governor of Nyeri County, where this is located, himself, a teacher, saying the county had dispatched emergency vehicles, but they had trouble getting there.
MUTAHI KAHIGA, NYERI GOVERNOR (Interpreted): This is a tragedy that has touched us on. There are those who are directly bereaved and those who have been affected by it. Let us all collaborate and make sure that we don't see anything like this again.
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MADOWO: The fire at Hillside Endarasha Academy is not the first in Kenya. There have been a string of school fires. It led to regulations for safety in schools. Domes are required to have two doors that open outward and another one in the middle clearly marked "emergency exit". They're supposed to have windows without grills. They are supposed to have fire extinguishers in places that are accessible, and fire alarms. They are supposed to have regular spot checks. They are supposed to have lots of other measures that, in many cases, are not implemented.
Again, we don't know what happened here exactly. This is speculative at this stage. The investigation will reveal that. But, there is so much loss and anger and heartbreak that another school fire has cleaned the lives of such young learners, the future of Kenya.
Larry Madowo, CNN, Kigali, Rwanda.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOLOMON: OK. Back here in New York, Donald Trump is spending the morning in a New York courtroom for the E. Jean Carroll sex abuse case. His attorneys were arguing for a new trial. I want to now take you, though, to Trump Tower. That's where the former U.S. President has just started speaking. Let's listen together.
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So, thank you very much everybody for being here. This is a long and complicated web and story, but it all goes back to the DOJ and Kamala and sleepy Joe and all the rest of them. We have a whole rigged election system. Nobody has ever seen anything like what's happening. Now, I understand. Yesterday, they're bringing up Russia, Russia, Russia, again, that they've done for years, never found anything, but they should be looking at China, China, China, Iran, Iran, Iran, and lots of other places. I haven't spoken to anybody from Russia in years. They know that. But, it's a scam.
But, it all goes back to the DOJ, because we had a trial today. It's an appeal of a ridiculous verdict of a woman I have never met. I don't know. I have no idea who she is. She wrote a book, and she made a ridiculous story up. She put it in her book, and we're now appealing the decision. We had an extremely hostile judge appointed by Clinton, very good friends of Clinton. I guess he married, presided over the marriage ceremony of one of the lawyers on the case against us, and it's very sad. Judge Lewis Kaplan, angry man. He was so angry I went to the trial. I've been in a lot of litigation over the years. I've never seen such anger or wanted to throw one of our attorneys in jail who has threatened her with jail. Nobody has ever seen anything like it over nothing. Nobody has ever -- I've never seen such anger.
But, all of our judges -- but we had a brilliant judge, and I think a very fair judge in Florida. I think we have another judge who is very fair. I just asked for fair. I don't want anything different from anybody else. I just asked for fairness. We have another judge, or a couple of judges that I think are fair. Then we have other judges that I think the whole thing is -- I think the system is a disgrace, the case that we met on today, and then we're going to talk about job numbers, which are horrible, by the way, horrible, like really bad. And you know that. I'm sure you won't report on it, but the job numbers are terrible.
We're going to talk about the appeal today. We had a great appellate lawyer go down representing us, and I think John did a very good job. You have a matter of minutes to speak. It's a very complex thing, because it was a set-up, a rigged deal. They had two witnesses. And before I start, I have no idea who this woman is. They have a picture from, they say, about 40 years ago, a picture, and the picture depicts her and her husband on a celebrity line, where I was the celebrity. I was -- been a celebrity for a long time, and they were shaking my hands along with hundreds of other people. Nobody even knows where it is.
The problem is, she doesn't know the date of this incident. She doesn't know when. She doesn't know, was it in the 90s? It could have been further than that. She has no idea when. And people do that because you don't want to give a specific date, and then you find out that Trump, or whoever it was, was in Europe. So, they tend to do that. They take long periods so that this way, hopefully he was in New York at that time.
[11:40:00]
But, this is a disgraceful case, and disgraceful in particular because it's about a former President of the United States who is now leading in the polls to be the President again. And this is being worked with the DOJ, Department of Justice, as are all of these cases. They all come out. Atlanta, Fani. That is all Department of Justice. Nobody knew that. The case with Judge Engoron, the most overturned judge in the state, that is very close, because they sent their team from the DOJ to help him. The district attorney, Alvin Bragg, that was all worked with, again, they sent a top operative from the department -- from the DOJ, Department of -- I call it the Department of Injustice, because they're using the Department of Justice to rig the campaign.
These cases are disgraceful. Now, they're brought, for the most part, in front of very hostile areas where Republicans get three percent or four percent like downtown Manhattan, in front of very hostile judges, like -- hostile like you wouldn't believe, Judge Merchan, Judge Engoron, and Judge Kaplan, all of them hostile areas and very, very hostile judges. I've never seen anything like it. And very bad thing in this case, New York, very bad thing for New York. Businesses won't come to New York because of what took place with Judge Engoron, I can tell you that, and probably the rest of them also.
But, this case involved a woman who wrote a book, and I guess she said something in the book. That's when I first heard about it. I first heard about it in the White House. And of course, I denied the story because it's not true. I have no idea who the woman is, and I never met her. Now, I don't know about a picture that was taken 40 years ago with her husband on a celebrity line. So, I don't think that counts. But, as far as I know, I never met her. I never touched her. I have -- I would have had no interest in meeting her in any way, shape or form. Her husband was a news anchor, actually, John Johnson, a very nice guy. She called him horrible things. We weren't allowed to say that in the trial. She said horrible things about him. I guess they're since divorced.
SOLOMON: All right. We've just been listening to the former President and current Republican nominee for 2024, President Donald Trump. He is speaking there at Trump Tower. He has been speaking for a little less than 10 minutes at this point, wide-ranging so far. He has attacked pretty much every prosecutor that he currently has a legal entanglement with at this point. He attacked the DA and New York Alvin Bragg. I heard him mention Fani Willis in Atlanta.
His chief concern at this point, at least, according to what we have heard, is this verdict in New York against E. Jean Carroll. A jury of nine had found that he had sexually abused and defamed the one-time columnist. His lawyer spent the morning, he himself also spent the morning in New York, working to appeal that verdict. I'm trying to look, $5 million in damages. So, that is his chief concern. He said he is going to talk about the jobs numbers as well, but that appears to be the chief concern at this point. I should say that Trump has gotten in trouble before for speaking about E. Jean Carroll. Again, part of the issue here is that he was found liable for defaming the columnist.
But, let me now bring in my colleague, CNN Senior Crime and Justice Reporter, Katelyn Polantz, who has been tracking all of this. Katelyn, that was a pretty broad overview. Fill in the dots here as far as what you have heard. Fill in the lines.
POLANTZ: Broad but pretty specific in that Trump is speaking about E. Jean Carroll, a woman who has won not just $5 million for sexually abusing and defaming him -- for him to sexually abuse and defame her, but also won an $83.3 million verdict for continuing to talk about E. Jean Carroll. So, one of the things that Donald Trump's team is challenging in the appeals court today, the reason that he is standing up there and making these statements is that they are trying to throw out one of the jury's verdicts, that when he went to trial for defamation, when E. Jean Carroll took him to trial and won, that there were things in that trial that shouldn't have been heard by the jury, such as the Access Hollywood tape.
But, what happens in these cases with Donald Trump is that there are two E. Jean Carol defamation cases. He is appealing both of them, not just the $5 million verdict that had the hearing today, but he is appealing both of them, and the reason that there are two was because he continued to say publicly that E. Jean Carroll was making up her story, and he is tripling down on that, it appears.
[11:45:00]
We'll have to see how her lawyers respond, if at all. But, that is something that has factored into these cases, that he keeps saying the same things over and over about E. Jean Carroll. Separately, Rahel, to make just a point on this, he said that Judge Juan Merchan in New York, along with two other judges in New York who have presided over these cases that he has lost, including his criminal case, are hostile judges, very hostile judges. Judge Merchan is lined up to sentence him for 34 criminal counts on September 18th. And he -- we are waiting just today to see if Judge Merchan will have that sentencing hearing on the 18th, or if he will move it until after the election, as Trump's team has asked.
But, these are judges that he is still, especially Judge Merchan, has business before in court as a criminal defendant. So, he is out there now, speaking again, calling them hostile, and clearly also having his continued broadside against the columnist E. Jean Carroll, who has won two defamation cases and a significant amount of money from the former President.
SOLOMON: Yeah. It does make you wonder, Katelyn, with less than 60 days until the election, if this is more about the politics of some of these cases, or if this is a true legal grievance and how his attorneys view all of this.
Katelyn Polantz, thank you very much. Good to have you.
I want to now bring in my next guest, Michael Smerconish, who, of course, is in the great city of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Smerconish, great to have you. We didn't book you necessarily to talk about Trump and his press conference. But, I'm not sure how much you have heard from Trump. But, just give me a sense of your reaction. In some ways, it's a lot of what we've heard before.
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN HOST, "SMERCONISH", & CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Rahel, it's nice to see you. If you're explaining, you're losing. Here is a perfect example of sometimes he is his own worst enemy. A poor jobs report came out today, 142,000 jobs in August, much weaker than anticipated. The economy is supposedly his strength, and yet, he can't help himself. Instead of just staying on message and talking about a weak jobs report and tying it to the President and Vice President Kamala Harris, it's Festivus, if you remember the Seinfeld series. It's an airing of grievances.
Who the hell knows watching this internationally, anything about E. Jean Carroll's former husband? And yet, Trump has opened this tangent where he is talking about this guy and things that he said, and I don't know. He has got so many things that he could be saying, but he can't help himself, and maybe the reason is because all of this litigation was a winning message for him in the primary.
His nomination was secured, I think, by being indicted four times over, as crazy as that sounds. But, it's now the general election, and we're like eight and a half weeks to go until this whole thing wraps up. And if he is still litigating the past, he is not going to be successful in being the President of the future.
SOLOMON: It's a really interesting point, Michael, and I would just add that maybe all he needs is the poll for it to really be a Festivus sort of moment, because for those of us who --
SMERCONISH: You remember.
SOLOMON: Yes, I remember. I'm a huge Seinfeld fan. But, Michael, I mean, you're right. I mean, it is one thing to sort of deliver this message in the primaries. Unclear how effective this will be in a general election. But, one of the reasons why I love talking to you, Michael, is because you actually get to talk to listeners. You get to talk to real people who call in and tell you how they're feeling. They write in. And Pennsylvania is such an interesting state because, I mean, you know where you are, it could be a very different state. Pittsburgh is very different than Philadelphia.
So, talk to me a little bit, Michael, about what you have heard from Pennsylvania listeners. I mean, how are they sort of taking all of this in?
SMERCONISH: So, what I hear is mirrored by the numbers, which, as of this morning, according to RealClearPolitics, it was 47.2 for Harris and 47.2 for Trump. How much closer of an election can it be if those polling averages are correct? I think it comes down to the Commonwealth. You'd flip a coin to know today who wins. But, Rahel, I'm concerned about something. Remember, in the last election, we didn't know the outcome until the Saturday after the election. CNN was able to call it when what happened when Pennsylvania came in. Pennsylvania has not improved itself in its ability to deal with mail- in ballots.
So, what worries me most is, if the polls are right and it's razor thin and it comes down to Pennsylvania, maybe we don't know who wins for a couple of days, and I worry that seeds of misinformation are going to take root, and it will cause an uncomfortable or worse situation for the country. And what I'm really trying to say is that Trump will take advantage of that situation and try and cast doubt on the election.
SOLOMON: Yeah.
[11:50:00]
And you made the point earlier, and it's a valid one, Michael, that it's incumbent upon all of us to sort of get across the message that if there is a delay in terms of really counting every vote and understanding who in fact the American people have chosen, it doesn't necessarily mean that something malicious or nefarious or untoward is happening. It just means that there may be some time before we really understand who the American people chose.
Let me talk about Philly for a bit, this debate in Philly on Tuesday. We had some polling earlier this week that I thought was really interesting, Michael, 15 percent of voters saying that they still haven't made up their mind yet. I'm curious what you think that says about where voters are, because, on the one hand, Donald Trump is a known quantity. On the other hand, Harris, not so much. I mean, are these voters for her to lose? I mean, what do you think?
SMERCONISH: So, I'm so glad that you brought it up to what we were just talking about, Trump and the press conference that you've been carrying in part live. I think it speaks to the challenge that he faces of staying on message and exerting some self-discipline. I could so easily see the Vice President getting under his skin, and whatever his game plan was going in that instead he becomes distracted. So, for him, it's to be measured. And for her, I think it's to offer a level of specificity that we haven't seen so far. I mean, I happen to think she has gotten a free ride, one interview of substance with our own Dana Bash. She came on the scene after Vice President -- after -- pardon me, President Biden had that disastrous debate performance, and really hasn't done any challenging back and forth with voters either.
So, this is going to be the first opportunity that we see her under the lights, having to respond, we think, to specific questions, and she has got to convince people that there is a level of depth there to handle a wide range of substantive issues. If she does that, she is well on her way.
SOLOMON: And you think she can do that in the debate. And so, therefore, the debate could be the needle mover, especially if we don't see many more sit-down interviews. To your point, she has only done the one with Dana. The debate could be a needle mover one way or the other.
SMERCONISH: I know that we in the media, we love to say that there has never been an election like this before. There has never been a debate so important before. This is the year when actually both those things are true. There could never be a more important debate than the one on Tuesday, and there could never be a more important debate in our lifetime or election than the one that we're right now involved in.
SOLOMON: Talk to me a little bit about money. We learned this morning that Harris has continued to raise a lot of money. Her campaign, her political operation, raised more than $360 million in August. That's more than double Donald Trump. Michael, how much do you think that factors into things when we hear voters say, I'm still not really sure who she is? I'm still trying to learn more about who Kamala Harris is and will be as a President.
SMERCONISH: So, mine is probably a minority opinion. I don't think it matters. I think that the money matters. You have to have enough, and you've got to be able to get on the airwaves in the six or seven battleground states that matter. But, Rahel, yes, I'm in Philadelphia right now, an area that you know so, so well, and our airwaves are already at the point of saturation. It's like every time commercial breaks occur, you're seeing Trump and you're seeing Harris. You're seeing against Trump. You're seeing against Harris. It's a wash. I mean, I feel like people in Iowa or New Hampshire must feel every four years when the primary process begins in those states, or the caucus process, and I can now see it become desensitized to it.
So, I don't think it's going to be the money so much. I think it's the way they comport themselves. And I'm sure there're going to be twists in the road in the next eight and a half or so weeks, things that you and I could never imagine that are going to occur, that are going to shift up the narrative. But, it's not so much the ads in the dough.
SOLOMON: That is really interesting. And then lastly, Michael, it's to start a football season, America's favorite pastime. NBC News had this interesting article this morning that reminded me of a conversation you and I had, I think, the last time we spoke after the DNC, but it just sort of pointed out all of the references in politics right now from the Democrats on football, including Governor Josh Shapiro right there in Pennsylvania, including Tim Walz, and it had me thinking about the last time we spoke about the DNC and how you saw the Democrats really leaning into patriotism.
And I'm curious, Michael, what you think about this sort of leaning into football references, and who you think they're trying to reach in doing that?
SMERCONISH: So, the season kicked off last night, and tonight, the Philadelphia Eagles are going to be in Brazil. Holy smokes, talk about a global footprint for the NFL. I don't think it's so much about football. Yes, it's part of the patriotism that the two of us discussed after the DNC. I think it's about reaching men, young men, in particular.
[11:55:00]
The data that I've seen says that the gender divide is greatest among Gen Z, women overwhelmingly supportive of Kamala Harris, men supportive of Donald Trump, and the way in which each of these candidates is trying to make their pitch to young men, and I think what's going on in the Harris-Walz campaign is they're trying to rely on the fact that he was a former assistant high school football coach to show that he has got a certain type of machismo. And Trump, when he does events with the Paul Brothers or at UFC, Ultimate Fighting Champions, he is trying to reach a different segment of the young men community. Young men are very much being pursued.
SOLOMON: Yeah, It's interesting. Machismo was not on my bingo card of things that I expected to hear at work today, Michael Smerconish, but this is why we love having you on. Thank you. SMERCONISH: Thank you.
SOLOMON: Yeah. And you can catch "Smerconish" every Saturday morning at 09:00 a.m. Eastern Time here on CNN. That is 02:00 p.m. in London.
Well, we know your time is money. So, thank you for spending some time with me today. I'm Rahel Solomon live in New York. Stick with CNN. ONE WORLD is coming up next.
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