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CNN International: American Activist Killed During Protest In West Bank; Zelenskyy To Allies: Speed Up Delivery Of Promised Air Defenses; U.S. Sees Higher Risk Of Russia Sabotaging Undersea Cables; Judge Delays Trump's Hush Money Sentencing Until November 26; 14-Year- Old Suspect & His Father Make First Court Appearance. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired September 06, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:35]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: It is 8:00 p.m. in London, 11:30 p.m. in Kabul, 3:00 p.m. here in Washington.

I'm Jim Sciutto. Thanks so much for joining me today on CNN NEWSROOM, and let's get right to the news.

We begin in the Israeli occupied West Bank where an American activist has been shot and killed during an anti-settlement protest. Eyewitnesses say she was shot in the head by the Israeli military. The IDF now admits to fir at the demonstrators and that they are, quote, now looking into reports that a foreign national was killed as a result of shots fired in the area.

All of this comes as the Israeli military temporarily withdrew after a 9-day operation to, quote, prevent terror in the West Bank. Israel's defense minister signaled the IDF will, in fact, return. Thirty-nine people were killed in Israel's military operation. Today, residents are returning to find streets demolished, homes destroyed neighborhoods without electricity or water.

CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson is in Tel Aviv.

And, Nic, before we get to the conditions in the West Bank, tell us what we know about this shooting, shot and killed, Israeli forces admit they fired at demonstrators. Eyewitnesses say the shots were the result of Israeli fire. Was there anyone else firing in the area?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: And that's a question that the IDF haven't answered yet. They have admitted as you said that they fired those live rounds but they haven't said yet if there was a gunman in the area. From what we understand from the description, this is a weekly protest. So it's nothing new that she was attending.

The protesters were sort of at the bottom of the hill. The IDF was up the hill. It seemed to be getting towards the end of the protest, but the IDF had fired tear gas into the area. Some of the protesters were hiding behind large metal, the huge metal trash cans, then the IDF started firing shots, their protesters, including this young 26-year- old ran away and that's when she was hit as she ran away. Medics quickly put her in an ambulance but by the time she got to her hospital in the nearby city of Nablus, she was pronounced dead.

Not far away in Jenin, we were arriving there just as the first of the funerals were beginning for all those people killed during the Israeli military operation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: Surrounded by fellow fighters, men Israel calls terrorists being laid to rest. Jenin's first chance to bury its dead since Israeli forces pulled out overnight, a tense atmosphere as three interred side by side. Here they are known as "The Resistance".

Israel's defense minister has described their military operations here as mowing the lawn, cutting down on the number of militants, is vowing to come back to pull out the roots.

Militant Abu Islam, Jenin brigade commander of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, denies Israel had or will ever get a victory here.

The effect of the destruction and killing he says makes us more popular. Sure, some of us were killed, but we admit to our losses. But they Israel should admit to their losses, too.

At another Jenin cemetery, 87-year-old Tawfeeq Qandil also laid to rest.

According to Palestinian health officials, 39 people killed over the past days. The IDF says 14 of them were terrorists. Among the dead, eight children and two elderly like Qandil. His sons united in their grief, telling us we had no food for three days, he went out to get some and the Israeli troops shot him.

His body videoed as it lay in the street. Troops driving over his feet as they left. The Israelis did not immediately comment on this incident.

What are we supposed to feel when you lose your father in this way, he says. They killed him and he didn't commit a crime. They don't spare the young or the old.

[15:05:03]

And not just live ripped up here, but the city, a massive cleanup only now just beginning. The cost of Israel's military operation being counted in destroyed roads, homes and livelihoods, much of the damage does not appear directly connected to the targeting of militants.

Sixty-nine-year-old barber Imad Abu Al-Hayat's half century old business in ruins.

The Israelis pushed all the debris through my storefront. "How can I ever repair this?" he tells me. "The chairs came from Jordan. It'll cost at least $20,000."

The city's mayor says it's too soon to know Jenin's full repair bill, more than 20 kilometers of road dug up, Internet, water and electricity cut multiple times. His early estimate, at least $10 million. Israel he says is turning the occupied West Bank into Gaza.

It's a wheel of genocide. We see it in Gaza, and now they turn it on the West Bank and they start in Jenin, he says.

There is a sense of deja vu here. Nothing new, just getting worse.

Eighteen-year-old Islam has grown up with incursions like this.

It's normal. They can destroy what they want, he tells me, and we rebuild. Let them do what they want. We're steadfast here. When they destroy, they give us more power.

Where today there is rubble, tomorrow for sure the grass will grow.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON (on camera): Now, the IDF has said this pullout is a temporary pull out. We did not see IDF troops anywhere around Jenin. But I think the population there really recognizes the fact they are powerless when the IDF choose to come back.

And as we saw, there are still plenty of gunmen on the streets, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, that phrase "nothing new, just getting worse" can apply to so much.

Nic Robertson, thanks so much.

Well, Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelenskyy is calling out the West for the slow delivery of air defense systems for Ukraine during a meeting with the U.S. defense secretary in Germany earlier today. Zelenskyy warned of what he calls a significant shortfall in vital military support.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): The number of air defense system that have not yet been delivered is significant. This is what was agreed upon, and this is what was -- what has not been fully implemented. The world has enough air defense systems to ensure that Russian terror does not have results, and I urge you to be more active in this work with us on air defense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: The U.S. did announce another $250 million military aid package for Ukraine but is still resist resisting Zelenskyy's request to use U.S. supplied long-range weapons against targets inside Russia.

CNN's Natasha Bertrand is at the Pentagon.

Natasha, before we get to the Ukraine news, you have new reporting on Iran sending ballistic missiles to Russia. What do we know?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Jim, so we are confirming that finally, after months and months of back and forth between the Iranians and the Russians, negotiations over this, the Iranians have actually delivered new short range ballistic missiles to the Russians that presumably are going to be used against the Ukrainians, and this deal has been in the works since really at least about a year ago, last September, when then Russian defense minister Sergei Shoigu actually visited Iran to view the drones and the missiles that they had that they were potentially going to be selling to the Russians.

And then fast forward to today and that deal, at least part of it, has officially now been completed. We are told that this delivery of these ballistic missiles happened recently, though it is unclear exactly when they were transferred. But the bottom line here is this is going to really have a significant effect potentially on the war in Ukraine, particularly as Russia has continued to step up its missile and drone attacks on Ukrainian cities and, of course, the fear that they're going to continue to do so against critical infrastructure leading into the winter.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, first drones, now missiles, of course, you got artillery coming from North Korea. That whole nexus of those powers working together.

All right. To Ukraine now, was there any movement from the U.S. on these two main requests? I mean, they're pushing really for more air defense, but they're also pushing for the ability to strike Russian targets inside Russia to help prevent these air attacks. It seems the U.S. isn't giving them what they're asking for.

BERTRAND: Yeah, and Secretary Austin said, you know, that the U.S. is going to provide them with a new package of military aid that includes additional air defense capabilities, but Kyiv is saying, look, you're promising all of this stuff and we're still not seeing it actually be delivered to the front lines where it's needed most.

And so, the reason for that delay kind of remains unclear, but we know that these air defense systems are in pretty short supply not only within the U.S. but also around the world. And so, it might be a supply issue, but for now, the U.S. says that, of course, it's willing to continue to provide these systems as it can but the question of the long range missiles, that is another one entirely.

The U.S. right now not budging on its insistent that Ukraine not use those long-range ATACM systems against targets inside Russia itself, primarily they say because they would not be useful. They say that the glide bombs that Russia is using against Ukraine and against Ukrainian positions particularly in southern Russia in that Kursk region, they are being launched from well outside the range of ATACMS and so, therefore they would not be useful anyway. They're much better used against targets inside Crimea.

The Ukrainians are saying look we know better than you do what the targets are that are actually going to make a difference in this war. But still, you know, even with the pressure of the Canadians or the Eastern Europeans, saying the Ukrainians need this capability and they need to be able to use it, the U.S. for now not budging on that, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, I mean some U.S. allies are giving them more leeway. Natasha Bertrand, thanks so much.

Now to new CNN exclusive reporting, two U.S. officials tell me the U.S. has detected increased Russian naval activity above key undersea cables, cables, a critical link in the global communications infrastructure. The concern now is that Russia is more likely now to sabotage those cables which would significantly disrupt government and military and private sector communications as well as financial markets, energy supplies.

One official tells me the U.S. would consider any such act of sabotage a significant escalation in Russian aggression outside of course of the ongoing war in Ukraine.

Joining me now is CNN national security analyst, former deputy director of national intelligence, Beth Sanner.

Beth, good to have you on.

BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Hi, Jim. How are you?

SCIUTTO: So, one key in this story as I'm told is that the U.S. believes that Russia has changed or may be changing its decision calculus when it comes to such attacks. Read that as more likely to carry out such sabotage, and I wonder, in your view, why would Russia be more likely to carry out such an attack now which would target the U.S. and its allies in a damaging way?

SANNER: This is really I think a very important point for people to understand, and that is that Russia, we shouldn't think about this cable situation in isolation.

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

SANNER: What Russia is conducting right now is a full range of what many people call gray zone activity. So I love that term because it means it's between the actual fighting of war and peace. It's this kind of gray space in between where countries feel, especially our adversaries feel, that they can do things like sabotage, like maybe using a criminal gang to assassinate the CEO of a major European arms manufacture, like sending migrants across the border, like the disinformation effort that was just -- we just saw that DOJ indictment for.

And this undersea cable situation which nixes civilian, sometimes it looks civilian, sometimes it looks military but it's very hard to detect at the moment and to catch the perpetrator and to deal with that. And that's why countries like Russia who have so little to lose can do this kind of activity because that we're not going to shoot them for this, right? We're not going to fire missiles for this.

SCIUTTO: Hybrid war, a shadow war.

I wonder, an attack like this would cause enormous economic damage and disruption for the U.S. and its allies and for civilians. Could the U.S. categorize this as an act of war if Russia were to carry out such an attack?

SANNER: Well, first, yes, it is actually under NATO and NATO has been following -- and I want to make sure that people know, this isn't something that NATO hasn't been tracking and working on. They have an infrastructure protection group and they are working on coordinating jurisdictions and they have said for many years now that an act like this would trigger Article 5, and it's also in the U.S. defense strategy to deal with these kinds of things. But we haven't decided that it is, you know, what would be our retaliation.

The second thing if you'll permit me is to say that it's really hard to just cut one cable and have those kinds of effects. There are hundreds and hundreds of cables and cables get cut every year from things like, you know, fishing line -- you know, fishing anchors dragging across accidentally, and the commercial sector rewires the traffic and oftentimes, we don't even know that these things have happened.

Other times, we have major breakdowns like we did this year where Nigeria and huge parts of West Africa lost Internet capabilities because of seismic activity, not man-made.

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

SANNER: So, yes, they can, but it's not -- you have to do it at scale to have significant long-term effects.

SCIUTTO: And, of course, there are other ways to attack them or sabotage them without cutting them, right? That could potentially have more deleterious effects.

Beth Sanner, thanks so much. I'm sure it's not the last time we talk about it.

SANNER: Great reporting. Thanks, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Thanks.

Well, coming up next, two days after yet another tragic, sad heartbreaking school shooting in America, the 14-year-old gunman and his father both appeared in court today, charged with crimes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Donald Trump was convicted of 34 felonies by a Manhattan jury earlier this year. He was supposed to be sentenced by now but as we learned today, he will not be sentenced on those charges until after the presidential election. Judge Juan Merchan delayed the sentencing until November 26 to, he says, dispel any notion of interference in the electoral process.

Trump's attorneys are still seeking to throw out the charges entirely. Those charges stemming from hush money payments made to Stormy Daniels on the grounds of the Supreme Court's presidential immunity ruling. Judge Merchan's decision today, a reminder just how intertwined Trump's legal and political fates are and how successful his lawyers' attempts to delay all these legal processes have been.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz is here now to break it down.

Was this a surprise?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: It wasn't a huge surprise given that even some people I talked to around the court system here had said, yeah, this seems like a no-brainer to move the sentencing until after the election just given what has been going on.

Judge Merchan clearly was weighing a lot of things. He outlined that Jim in a -- in a four-page letter today issuing his order of moving the sentencing hearing, saying he's thinking about how to protect the proceedings here, how to protect the jury verdict, how to make sure that justice is served and make sure that there is integrity about the public's perception of the judiciary.

And one thing he wants to do is avoid advantaging or disadvantaging any political party or candidate by having the sentencing for Donald Trump before the election. It is not unusual for dates like this, like a sentencing date, to move. This date had already moved from July into September, later into September, and now it will be after the election, November 26th.

In this case, Jim, jail time is a possibility and even today, Donald Trump is out there calling Judge Merchan, who is set to sentence him in November, a hostile judge toward him. Acceptance of responsibility and respect for proceedings is often taken into consideration by judges when they sentence a defendant. Donald Trump has been held in contempt in this case and so November 26th, at 10:00 a.m., is going to be a pivotal moment like we have never seen before if at that time Donald Trump is the president-elect of the United States, if he wins the election and the sentencing is happening, that will be an extraordinary moment.

But, of course, make no mistake, his team fights everything and has already said they don't want to see any sentencing at all. We are very likely to see them try and put that off if he wins the presidential election or not.

SCIUTTO: Justice delayed again, one might say.

Katelyn Polantz, thanks so much.

Well, two days after just another horrific, heartbreaking school shooting in this country, the 14-year-old gunman, you heard that right, Colt Gray and his father Colin Gray both appeared in court today. The teen, blonde hair, his face obscured from the cameras, sat as the judge told him he could spend the rest of his life in prison but would not face the death penalty for killing two of his fellow students and two math teachers at Apalachee High School. He wounded nine others.

Moments later, the defendant switched from son to father Colin Gray faces charges for allegedly purchasing the assault style rifle as a gift for a son who was in crisis months before that gun was then used in this awful act of violence. The victim's family sat front row with one woman we noticed her there holding a stuffed animal of Disney character Oswald the lucky rabbit cradled in her arms, a memory of her lost son.

CNN's Rafael Romo is outside the courtroom in Winder, Georgia, with more.

So walk us exactly through the charges they're facing now?

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Jim, there are several significant takeaways after both father and son appeared in court for the first time today after Wednesday's horrific shooting.

First of all, and this is significant, the judge made it clear earlier today that the teenage suspect won't face the death penalty because he is not eligible due to his age. Earlier, he had said that there that was a possibility. Then he made it clear that it was not because he's only 14.

We had learned since Wednesday night that 14-year-old Colt Gray would be charged as an adult for allegedly shooting to death two fellow students and two teachers at Apalachee High School here in Winder. We have also learned that the gun used in the shooting by the teenager was a Christmas gift, Jim, from his father last December and another important takeaway is that it is very likely that Colt Gray will face additional charges.

That's what Barrow County District Attorney Brad Smith said earlier today here outside the courthouse.

Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRAD SMITH, BARROW COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: There will be additional charges on Colt Gray. When he was taken into custody on Wednesday, we did not have the identities or the conditions of the other victims, so we were not able to charge on those offenses. So when the evidence comes in and they've been have a chance to heal physically, emotionally and spiritually, we will get with them and there will be additional charges that address the other victim.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[15:25:04]

ROMO: District Attorney Smith also said that a grand jury will be scheduled to hear both cases against the father and the son sometime in October -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Rafael Romo, thanks so much.

Well, six years ago, Tony Montalto found himself in the position of those grieving families in Winder, Georgia, receiving just devastating news that his child lost her life like so many others in this country to a continuing epidemic of senseless gun violence. Tony's 14-year-old daughter Gina was gunned down at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida. She was the same age as the two victims at Apalachee High, just 14 years old.

Tony joins me now.

And, Tony, thanks so much for joining us.

TONY MONTALTO, 14-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER GINA KILLED IN PARKLAND SHOOTING: Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: I want to begin with you having suffered what I could only imagine as a parent myself is the worst tragedy for a parent. How do you handle and what's your reaction to seeing other parents go through the same thing, another seemingly preventable active school gun violence?

MONTALTO: Well, of course, my heart goes out to the families of the victims right away. Sadly, I'm very familiar with their feelings and the shock of having a loved one and you said lost, and quite frankly, they're not lost. They're taken from our families. They're murdered at their schools, someplace where they should be safe.

Ad it's important also to remember that it's not just the students that were murdered here. We saw the teachers murdered as well, often they're forgotten in this and it's important to remember all the victims.

SCIUTTO: No question, good of you to do that.

This case has something that's become somewhat new -- I mean, we've seen it before but it's interesting. The father charged now a second degree manslaughter for allegedly providing the gun to his son. Is that the right step in your view? Do you see in this case and, of course, we saw this in the Crumbley case as well, parents held responsible?

MONTALTO: Well, I think it is important to hold people accountable for their actions. The families in Parkland formed Stand with Parkland, the National Association of Families for Safe Schools. We look at school safety in a little bit of a holistic way, looking at securing at the campus and improving mental health screening and support programs and finally if you choose to own one, responsible firearms ownership.

We feel that when the parents are not responsible, when children are able to access a firearm, and let's be clear, children are people under the age of 18, not just toddlers.

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

MONTALTO: They have not done their part in being a responsible firearm's owner.

SCIUTTO: I wonder if you're worried though because we see in these cases, the parents held accountable, understandably so. We will often see the schools perhaps, guidance counselors, psychologists for not raising enough of a red flag, you know, questions raised.

What you don't see though are legislators who pass lax gun laws. You don't see gun manufacturers, right, which has often been a target of some of the gun safety community. Do you worry that not all responsible parties are facing accountability?

MONTALTO: Well, sadly, as we know, firearms manufacturers are covered or exempt from charges and that is somewhat of a problem, because -- but however, we can't just focus on that. As I said, Stand with Parkland, we look at the three things. We need to secure our campus more closely.

We do need improved mental health screening and support programs and we do need safe storage of firearms, as well as, you know, red flag laws while you own. We have seen changes in all of these quite frankly. We saw after the Parkland shooting, the Fix NICS Act which helped close some loopholes in the firearm background check system. We saw the Stop School Violence Act which provided dollars for behavioral threat assessment team and to secure our nation's campuses.

Additionally, we were heavily involved in passing the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act, and that touched on all three of our programs. It has increased dollars for securing the campus. It provided money for 14,000 more mental health professionals in our nation schools as well as the nationwide 988 hotline, and it also provided dollars for red flag laws and for closing the -- talking about straw man purchases, preventing those, and helping to close some other loopholes in the background check system.

[15:30:10]

So we always need more to be done but we have to recognize that we have seen some progress. It comes at a terrible cost though.

SCIUTTO: Yes, and you know, it's -- each of those things may have made a difference. We -- and we may not know, right, some of these cases where the difference is made. I do want to play you the reaction to the shooting from Republican vice presidential candidate J.D. Vance for your thoughts. Have a listen. I'll get your response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Clearly, strict gun laws is not the thing that is going to solve this problem. What is going to solve this problem, I -- and I really do believe this -- is look, I don't like this. I don't like to admit this. I don't like that this is a fact of life.

But if you're -- if you are a psycho and you want to make headlines, you realize that our schools are soft targets. And we have got a bolster security at our schools.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: A fact of life, he says, and stricter guns laws don't make a difference. You agree with that? MONTALTO: No, I think what we saw here in Florida following the Parkland shooting was bipartisan support coming together to pass a comprehensive bill that did secure the campus, that did provide for an armed individual on each K-12 campus. We also saw it raise the age of purchase to 21. We saw a three-day waiting period imposed and we saw extreme risk protection orders or red flag laws put in place.

Those have been used over 12,000 times in the six years that we've had them here in the state of Florida. They've been used in blue counties and red counties, because they protect citizens, they protect law enforcement officers, and they again are part of the mechanism to ensure responsible firearms ownership.

You have to have -- you have to address this as a public safety issue. It's not a personal rights issue. It's about public safety.

SCIUTTO: Well, Tony, thanks so much for joining us. We appreciate the work you're doing and as always, our hearts go out to you and your family, these years -- all these years later.

MONTALTO: Well, thank you very much. We keep trying and at standwithparkland.org, we can find five questions every family should ask regarding the school year to start a conversation between their schools and their families, to help make sure their students are safe and there's a plan in place.

SCIUTTO: I'll make sure to share that as widely as I can. Thanks so much.

MONTALTO: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, coming up after the break, Boeing's troubled Starliner expected to make its way back to Earth today, but, of course, the two astronauts who boarded the spaceship back in June, they won't be on board.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:36:26]

SCIUTTO: -- first went into space, Boeing Starliner spacecraft will finally make its way back to Earth today. But the two astronauts who boarded the vessel back in June, they won't be on board. It'll be empty.

Joining me now to discuss, David Kerley, former ABC News senior transportation correspondent, author of "The Full Throttle" transportation newsletter.

David, good to have you. You've covered Boeing in the space program for years.

How big of a setback is this not just for Boeing but for the space program? And they want to have alternatives to get to and from the space station. DAVID KERLEY, FORMER ABC NEWS SENIOR TRANSPORTATION CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. So two different things there. For NASA, this is not what they wanted. They wanted at least two different vehicles that could come and go to the space station. They've only had the SpaceX Dragon now for several years because Boeing is so far behind, so far over budget and has not certified the spacecraft yet, and it's still not certified after this mission as well.

So it is a really black eye for Boeing whose reputation has been damaged not only by this space issue but also on the commercial division as well and I got to tell you. Jim. There their questions about what happens in the future for Boeing and space. The CEO has said that he's going to satisfy the contract which means they need to get the spacecraft certified and they need to fly I believe it's a half dozen flights for NASA but they've not made any commitment at least in briefings that they've been talking to reporters about going beyond those six flights.

SCIUTTO: So you mean Boeing might just decide to get out of the space business? I don't know if they get out of the space business, think of that their biggest contract right now is they are the main prime contractor on the space station. They take care of the space station. That's supposed to come to an end in 2030, so that big contract goes away in another six maybe seven years that they extend a little bit.

They're trying -- there are rumors that they want to get out of the rocket business. ULA is a joint venture with Lockheed. They say they want to get out of that potentially, and then if this capsule doesn't become a money maker and payback -- you know, they -- it was $4.2 billion they got from NASA which was nearly double what SpaceX got to develop this spacecraft. They're $1.6 billion in additional write-offs already for Boeing on this. So they're into this thing for almost $6 billion at this point.

SCIUTTO: So -- but if they get out of the ISS maintenance business and the capsule business and the rocket business, who's the backup plan for the space program? Because they don't want to be entirely reliant on one company.

KERLEY: And no they don't. Sierra Space is building a -- it's kind of a small looking space shuttle type spacecraft. It bid for this contract between the Boeing and SpaceX got. It didn't win so it decided to turn its little space plane into a cargo ship which is the way that SpaceX really learned how to do capsules.

And now there's -- you know, they've been talking about, do they make that a crude vehicle and will this speed it up a little bit if Boeing -- you know, their contract for six flights should take them out to the end of the space station because they're supposed to fly once a year at this point. If you only have six or seven years left, and they supposed to do six flights and they're not going to fly again for probably maybe another year with the -- unless they can fix this these issues with the Starliner.

Yeah, look, there are some big questions.

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

KERLEY: And we haven't heard from the CEO, other than through the NASA administrator that he says he's 100 percent sure that he's going to complete the contract on Starliner.

[15:40:06]

SCIUTTO: Goodness, tough couple of years for Boeing. A lot of -- lot of self-inflicted wounds it seems. David Kerley, thanks so much.

KERLEY: You bet, Jim. Take care.

Still to come, three years after the United States chaotic withdrawal from Kabul, how America's Afghanistan war veterans are still grappling with that decision.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: It has been just over three years now since U.S. forces withdrew from Afghanistan, a chaotic event. It was quickly followed by the Taliban's return to power two decades after U.S. forces pushed them out. One of the costliest moments of the withdrawal came when a suicide bomb detonated outside Kabul airport. The blast at Abbey Gate killed 13 U.S. service members and some 170 Afghans desperate to flee Taliban rule.

In the years since, U.S. veterans of the Afghan war have suffered terribly through frustration, mental illness and too often suicide, wondering what they and their fellow soldiers fought and died for.

Joining me now is Lieutenant Colonel Scott Mann. He's a former Green Beret, co-founder of Task Force Pineapple.

Thanks so much for joining us.

LT. COL. SCOTT MANN (RET.), FORMER GREEN BERET AND CO-FOUNDER OF TASK FORCE PINEAPPLE: Yeah. Thanks for having me on, Jim. I appreciate it.

SCIUTTO: Well, I want to begin with where Afghan veterans are today and how they handle anniversaries like this. You wrote recently that over 80 percent of these veterans feel betrayed, suicides have spiked, along with a whole host of mental health issues. That's not new. You and I talked about that before.

I just wonder where those numbers stand today and what's been working in your experience to help them.

MANN: Yeah. No, I appreciate that. It's -- it's a little bit anecdotal, but I've been spending a lot of time with veterans over the last year, Jim, with my play and just with storytelling engagement, and what I've seen is that they're hurting, you know, particularly this month as we come out of the three-year anniversary and into September 11, and I think a big reason that veterans are hurting is because they know something that the rest of us don't, which is we may be done with Afghanistan but it's not done with us. The reality is there is a growing and emanating terror threat coming

out of the very NATO bases that we trained and operated on that is very likely going to visit us here at home. And for veterans who fought for 20 years to keep that threat at bay, that's a very tough proposition.

SCIUTTO: You've repeatedly called for accountability for those responsible for this withdrawal for its own sake, but you also say that's important to veterans to see some accountability. What does accountability look like to you?

MANN: I think there's different levels to it, Jim. And it goes back to your original question is, it's what's helping the veterans move forward? And I think a lot of it is the ability to help their Afghan allies any way that they can whether that is helping them resettle here or whether it's helping them resist and overthrow the Taliban, and not live under that draconian regime.

But at the end of the day, there's been zero accountability on the way that we left the country and I think the problem that a lot of veterans have, Jim, is that we've got a multi-decade systemic habit of abandoning our allies all the way back to the mountain yards in Vietnam. And you know, when you start to build that reputation in the world, what partners going to work with us when we need them?

SCIUTTO: Yeah. No question. In terms of resettlement and you folks may not know, but Pineapple Express helped rescue, save a lot of lives of Afghans who fought alongside Americans. There was a big peak of that right around the withdrawal. It's become a lot harder now as you well know. Are families -- are those Afghan veterans still getting out, managing to get to safety as the Taliban continues to target them?

MANN: I think there's a few -- it's a -- it's a trickle. It's become a very difficult thing to get these at-risk Afghans out. And by the way that is directly proportional to the mental health challenges that so many of our Afghan war veterans are suffering from. And it's regardless of politics, these are men and women who fought alongside these Afghans who were conditioned to never leave an ally behind, and all of a sudden, we had to leave them in the dirt.

And it's like the world's longest 911 call, Jim. They can't hang up the phone because they're all that stands between these Afghans and being hunted and killed. And so, if they do hang up the phone, if these Afghans are exterminated or killed or unable to resettle, what does that do to the mental health of these veterans that that's all they're able to hang on to, to find meaning in this war? And I think that's why our politicians and our generals are missing it right now.

They need not just accountability but assurances that we're not going to commit these kind of systemic abandonments in the future, and I think that's a big reason our kids aren't joining up right now.

SCIUTTO: You mentioned politicians, it's become an issue in this race. As you know, Trump and his allies blame the Biden administration entirely. But we know that Trump negotiated withdrawal as well.

I just wonder -- did he have a better plan in your view, for instance, for keeping the Taliban from returning to power?

MANN: I've been very vocal about the fact that I do not think the Doha agreement was a solid agreement because I think it left the Afghan government out of the equation. I think President Biden squarely owns this withdrawal and he always will. But frankly, I served under multiple administrations, both Republican and Democrat, and found myself underwhelmed by all of them.

I don't think any political party should be thumping their chest about how Afghanistan went. I think what bothers me right now is the country is so divided. Jim, a lot of -- Sebastian Junger said it best, he said most combat veterans are willing to die for their country, they just don't know how to live for it because it's hard to know how to live for a country that's tearing itself apart, along every line from race to politics to religion, and I wish our politicians would figure that out and take a page from veterans are leading us.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, I hear you.

Well, Lieutenant Colonel Scott Mann, we appreciate the work you did in uniform and since you left the military, thanks so much for joining us.

MANN: Thanks for giving us a voice, Jim. I really appreciate it, means a lot and I'd ask people to reach out and check in on veterans close to you as we approach September 11th.

SCIUTTO: That's good advice. No question.

Just after the break, some good news. Football is back. Tonight, Philadelphia Eagles host the Green Bay Packers in Brazil. You heard that right, Brazil. All part of the NFL's push to take American football global. They're used to a different kind of football there.

We'll explain, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:51:22]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back.

Football -- American football that is, is coming to soccer mad Brazil. Tonight, the National Football League will play its first ever regular season game in South America when the Philadelphia Eagles face the Green Bay Packers in Sao Paulo, Brazil.

The game is part of the NFL's growing international series which has seen games played in the UK, Germany, Mexico. Next year, the league heads to Spain.

So what's the strategy behind the push to take American football global?

Joining me now to discuss is "The Athletic's" Brocks Kubena.

Brocks, thanks so much for coming on.

I mean, NFL makes a lot of money. You might say it's all about the money. Is this an effort to make more money?

BROOKS KUBENA, STAFF WRITER, THE ATHLETIC/NEW YORK TIES: It is a business. They saw 38 (AUDIO GAP) interested in Brazil and they're going into a continent that seems ready to embrace this. It's another avenue for the NFL to spread the game globally and you can make money off of that. There are people here in Brazil who are willing to pay that, too, 255 million of them, and they sold out very quickly.

SCIUTTO: So it's being received well there. I mean, do you find like a fan base in Brazil?

KUBENA: Yeah. I was here in June reporting on this, and I was there when the box office looked like a bank run. It sold out very quickly. I talked to the first person who bought a ticket and he had bought two tickets to a music concert for his wife who told him to sell those take a bus two hours to Sao Paulo and buy NFL tickets instead. He'll be there tonight, along with several other people I've WhatsApped over time that are very excited. They've called us a once in a lifetime opportunity.

But that's the question. Will the NFL be back? I've talked to people. And Peter O'Reilly (AUDIO GAP) international effort who said this is not a one and done vision. We'll see how the response is tonight and the weekend.

SCIUTTO: I know you have American football leagues in countries in Europe, in the UK, in Germany, et cetera. I mean, small ones, it's not like they're -- like drawn giant audiences or even professional. But do you see that? In these countries where folks come to watch the games, are you also seeing folks play the game?

KUBENA: Yeah, there's a league here called the CBFA. It's got a history. They used to play in the '80s on the beach in Rio, and it eventually led into a pretty unwieldy organization here that's connected through the Olympics. They're trying to use flag football to raise much needed finances for what's really kind of a high school level of play.

So there's 200 teams across that are playing they pay their way to play -- they pay for their equipment all of that, that's there. Those people are hoping that with all the interest in the NFL coming here, that that opens up opportunities for them as well.

SCIUTTO: Yeah. Listen, I mean there was flag football in the Olympics, too.

So, question, what are the chances we see international teams in the NFL in the coming years?

KUBENA: As far as Brazil is concerned, the -- I think they're really just trying to grow the interest in Brazil. Europe is a different story I've been more focused in Brazil. They're really just trying to get another game back here, and it's possible that could happen within a couple of years, perhaps in the northern region of the country.

They're -- they're very far away in terms of raising just the amount of interest necessary to keep this sustainable. So we'll see how this plays out for the week and it comes just in terms of how much interest this creates in a soccer crazy country.

SCIUTTO: Brocks Kubena, thanks so much. Have fun watching.

KUBENA: Absolutely.

SCIUTTO: And thanks so much to all of you for joining me today. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington.

"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.