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Interview With Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-CA); Congress Honors Troops Killed in Afghanistan; Harris and Trump Set For Crucial Debate. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired September 10, 2024 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:01]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: The country faces bitter divisions.

And Donald Trump and Kamala Harris are about to face each other tonight. They will square off on this stage in Philadelphia, maybe the most important 90 minutes of the campaign. The prime-time showdown is their only scheduled debate of this presidential race so far with less than two months until Election Day.

Both candidates are determined to break away. This "New York Times"/Siena College poll shows no clear leader, with both Harris and Trump locked in a statistical stalemate. Polls vary, but this is about as close as it gets.

This hour up on Capitol Hill, we should note a Gold Medal ceremony for the 13 U.S. service members killed in the botched withdrawal from Afghanistan. They will be honored. Members of both parties are honoring the fallen. We will dip into that live in just a few moments from now, so stay with us for that.

But in the meantime, joining me now to talk about the debate is former deputy communications director for Vice President Kamala Harris Rachel Palermo and former Trump administration official Matt Mowers.

Rachel, let me start with you first. What do you want to hear from Vice President Harris tonight? I mean, does she have to look at tonight as kind of an introduction to voters? We're seeing polls that show a huge chunk of voters just -- they just want to know more about the vice president.

RACHEL PALERMO, FORMER DEPUTY COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR TO KAMALA HARRIS: I think it's a really important opportunity for people to continue to get to know her. There's going to be millions of eyes on her tonight.

And people are seeing that the more that people do get to know her and know her story and know her vision, the more that they are supporting her. And she has this really powerful vision of wanting to bring our country forward, not bringing it back. And she's fighting for opportunity. She's fighting for fundamental freedoms.

And she really does represent the future of this country. And so I think it's a really important opportunity for her to lay out that vision and that contrast with Donald Trump.

ACOSTA: Yes.

And, Matt, I mean, Trump's allies are urging him to avoid the personal attacks. We heard David Urban saying that in the previous hour. Is he capable of that?

MATT MOWERS, FORMER TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AIDE: I think he is.

And if you look at the Donald Trump from the debate in June, he was actually relatively reserved. I think he kept it largely on policy. He talked a lot about immigration, talked a lot about inflation.

Going into debates and been in debate prep for presidential candidates, you often want to have just a couple of core things you're doing, because you never quite know all of the questions that are going to come your way. So to overprepare for every single question I think is usually a mistake actually a lot of candidates make.

But if you're Donald Trump, there's two core things you have to do. You have to compare life under the Trump administration to life under the Biden/Harris administration when it comes to the cost of living, as well as the sense of security.

And the second thing he has to do is just hold Kamala Harris to her own words from 2019 and 2020, when she staked out these very left-wing positions, and then make her try to defend why she no longer supports them. Try to make her actually go out of her way to try to defend doing a backflip a few weeks before an election.

He doesn't even have to go that far. He just has to remind voters of what she actually said back then.

ACOSTA: Yes, and immigration is likely to come up tonight. This weekend, Trump said, Rachel, that deporting undocumented immigrants will be a -- quote -- "bloody story."

It's not the first time he's made similar threats about this. If we have that sound, let's take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (R) AND CURRENT U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In Colorado, they're so brazen they're taking over sections of the state. And getting them out will be a bloody story.

Now, if I don't get elected it's going to be a bloodbath for the whole -- that's going to be the least of it. It's going to be a bloodbath for the country. That will be the least of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: How should she handle this, do you think?

PALERMO: I think the way that she's been handling the immigration issue generally has been really smart over the last few weeks because she's been going on the offense.

When people have brought up the border to her, she's talked about how numbers of border crossings right now are at a record low since Trump left office, but also she's talked about how there was a border security bill on the table that she and President Biden worked with some of the most conservative members of Congress to get moving.

And Donald Trump told his allies to not pass it because he wanted to make sure that immigration was an issue this election. And so she has said she wants to bring that bill back and sign it as president. And so I think what she needs to continue to do is go on the offense on that issue.

ACOSTA: Yes, I mean, Matt, what if the vice president brings that up tonight and says, hey, we tried to bring a bill forward, it had bipartisan support, but the president called his friends up on Capitol Hill and killed the bill?

MOWERS: Well, what he can do is say you could have taken a lot of these actions on day one. You didn't have to get rid of the remain-in- Mexico policy that I worked hard to enact and actually shut down a lot of border crossings, folks who are going to falsely use asylum claims to try to come to the United States, the issues like that.

If he puts it back on her, which is very easy to do -- I mean, the Biden/Harris record objectively on immigration has been a poor one. And voters are in agreement with Donald Trump on that issue. The other thing I'd say is that immigration, a lot of these are emotional issues for voters.

And so if Vice President Harris goes in and starts trying to say, well, it's actually not so bad, the average American voter may not believe it. There's a lack of believability on those issues. That's going to actually get her in trouble.

I think the biggest thing she could be doing wrong tonight is honestly overpreparing. If she goes in tries to start rattling off statistics, she's going to lose some authenticity in the answer. And that's, I think, part of the reason she hasn't been able to close the sale for so many voters.

[11:05:00]

They feel like she's trying to calibrate to maybe win their vote. She's not actually speaking from the heart of who she truly is.

ACOSTA: Yes, but, I mean, when the four president says deporting undocumented immigrants will be a -- quote -- "bloody story," I mean, if you're working on this campaign, aren't you throwing up your hands and saying, why is he saying this stuff right before debate?

MOWERS: No, because, I mean, look, I think a lot of Americans believe that there's big security impacts of the border policies that we have seen under the Biden/Harris administration, the fact that there are so many folks who cross the border who've been on the terror watch list and we don't necessarily know who they are or where they are. The fact that you do see stories like...

(CROSSTALK)

MOWERS: about Colorado.

ACOSTA: I mean, it almost sounds as though these immigrants, if they're deported under Trump, are going to be harmed in some way. I mean, why would you say a bloody story?

MOWERS: Well, actually, you are seeing some aspects of violence that have been committed by those who are here illegally. You are seeing situations like President Trump was referring to in Colorado.

You see some of the stories coming out around security considerations for residents in certain neighborhoods there. That's what I'm sure he's referring to. Maybe he will have to answer for that tonight. But I think the bigger impact he's talking about is the feeling of security around illegal immigration. That's one where the American people are on his side.

PALERMO: But I do think, though, that with this issue in particular, it is -- when people hear this kind of rhetoric, it's this divisiveness and they want to turn a new page on it. I think a lot of people want to live in a country where we're working together towards the future and not where we're demonizing people and people who are immigrants.

And so it's not helpful.

ACOSTA: Yes, and, Rachel, I mean, we were just talking about this a few moments ago. We're going to be dipping in live as the honor service members killed in the chaotic Afghanistan withdrawal.

And we were talking with Republican Congressman Mike Waltz in the previous hour. He was basically making the case that Vice President Harris just has not done enough to meet with the families of the service members to engage on this. They're obviously trying to lay that withdrawal at her feet.

I'm sure the former president will try to do that tonight. How should the vice president handle that?

PALERMO: When the vice president talks about this issue, what she should do is talk about her great respect for our nation's service members, but also the fact that she has worked hand in hand with President Biden on these issues over the last four years to make sure that we're shoring up alliances on the world stage, to make sure that we're making America as powerful and as safe as possible.

I have traveled with her abroad and domestically where she's met with our nation's service members and she's talked about how important America is and our role is on the world stage. And she's really the leader that we need to make sure that America is safe and prosperous.

ACOSTA: All right, guys, thank you very much. Really appreciate the time. Thanks so much.

And don't miss it tonight, the very first debate between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump, that simulcast on CNN at 9:00 p.m. Eastern of the ABC presidential debate.

Happening now up on Capitol Hill, as just mentioned a few moments ago, congressional leaders are about to honor the 13 service members killed in that 2021 terror attack in Afghanistan just one day after Republicans released a scathing report about what went wrong that day. It's a somber, yet politically fraught moment, of course, unfolding in Washington right now.

We will show you some of that ceremony live as it happens. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:12:37]

ACOSTA: Welcome back, happening right now upon Capitol Hill, congressional leaders are honoring the families of the 13 service members killed in a suicide bombing outside the Kabul Airport in Afghanistan in 2021.

House Speaker Mike Johnson and congressional leaders from both sides of the aisle are hosting the families at the Capitol. The event follows yesterday's scathing report from House Republicans on the Afghanistan withdrawal.

That report not only puts the blame on President Biden, but aims to focus renewed scrutiny on Vice President Kamala Harris' role as Republicans look to seize on the issue ahead of tonight's debate.

Joining me now, CNN national security analyst Peter Bergen. Peter, we should note the Senate majority leader, Chuck Schumer, the House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries, they're also going to be there today.

Just your thoughts on what we're seeing unfold today and the fact that Republicans, the former president, obviously members of Congress up on Capitol Hill, they are trying to bring this back, obviously, on the -- as this presidential debate is going to get going tonight.

PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes, well, Vice President Harris has a -- she was either not involved in the decision- making and was sort of a wallflower, or she was involved in the decision-making.

And neither is a great position to be in. I can't imagine it won't come up in the debate in some form tonight. It's great that this is a bipartisan kind of award ceremony, not a just a Republican award ceremony.

Obviously, the speaker of the House does control the schedule. I don't think it's a coincidence it's happening today. It's hard to prove. But we have seen a lot of activity. You mentioned the Republican report that came out yesterday. It's also a Democratic response. There have been some generals who've weighed in basically defending Harris.

So it's -- we also have the Arlington Cemetery incident some days back. So this is definitely part of the zeitgeist.

ACOSTA: Yes. And the ceremony you're looking at right now, it is just getting under way up on Capitol Hill.

And I do want to have you weigh in on this Republican-led report. It accuses the Biden administration of ignoring the -- quote -- "conditions in the Doha agreement, pleas of the Afghan government, and the objections by our NATO allies deciding to unilaterally withdraw from the country."

What's your reaction to that portion of the report?

BERGEN: Just because a report is put out by a group of politicians of one particular party doesn't mean it's untrue.

[11:15:05]

I mean, when people say the report's politicized, let's look at the facts. I mean, what you just said there, none of that is untrue. Our NATO allies were not only -- they were surprised by the American decision. They were very well informed about the American decision.

They were forced to withdraw because the United States withdrew. And the idea that the Biden administration was bound by the Trump agreement is crazy. I mean, this was an agreement with a terrorist insurgent organization. It was not negotiated with the Afghan government. They were specifically excluded.

The agreement was not being adhered to by the Taliban. They were supposed to enter into a power-sharing agreement with the Afghan government. They were supposed to divorce themselves from terrorist organizations. The only thing that they were doing was not shooting at American soldiers on the way out.

And since they wanted Americans out, it's not surprising that they kept to that term of the agreement.

ACOSTA: But the Biden administration has said the Trump administration set this in motion, that President Trump set this in motion. He negotiated this with the Taliban.

(CROSSTALK)

BERGEN: Yes.

ACOSTA: John Kirby said yesterday that Trump agreed -- that agreement resulted in the release of 5,000 Taliban fighters held in Afghan prisons.

BERGEN: Well, that is true. Both of those statements are true.

But, Jim, as you recall, Trump had no problem pulling out of the Iranian nuclear agreement, which wasn't negotiated with a terrorist insurgent organization. It was negotiated with some of our closest allies, Britain, France, et cetera, and also with Russia and China. He had no -- he had pulled out of the Paris climate agreement almost on day one.

So, that was negotiated with a bunch of countries around the world. So, this was not a ratified treaty by the Senate. It really didn't -- I mean, it was an agreement which the Taliban weren't adhering to. So, the idea that he was bound by it, I think, is absolute nonsense.

ACOSTA: And what about -- I mean, it seems to me that President Biden was determined to end this war.

BERGEN: He was, yes.

ACOSTA: And I think if you listen to a lot of Americans out there, and they may say, yes, this was a messy withdrawal. The optics were awful, 13 service members died as this came to an end. But at the end of the day, I think a lot of Americans would say, good that the war is over. Not good that there was this messy withdrawal. Not good that those service members died, obviously, but good that the war ended conclusively with the Americans out.

BERGEN: Well, Jim, as you recall, we had 2,500 American troops in Afghanistan. There would be no deaths, very few -- 56 Americans military service personnel get killed in accidents in any given year. That's the sort of average.

The number of American military deaths had basically gone to zero. The 2,500 American troops there were in an advise-and-assist mission. They weren't on the front lines. And it was keeping the country together. And I don't think it was an accident that Vladimir Putin moved an army of 70,000 soldiers to the border of Ukraine a few months after we left Afghanistan because it looked like the United States is pulling back from the world.

I mean, he was going to do that at some point, but I think he saw this as a sign of weakness. Which, I mean, there's no way to sugarcoat this. This was a -- it made the withdrawal from Saigon in 1975 look like the changing of the guard at Buckingham Palace. I mean, this was a total fiasco.

And it was a predictable one. I actually wrote for CNN in April 2021 when Biden announced the withdrawal, saying, this is going to be a fiasco. You didn't need any special information, any classified information, because it's obvious.

Once the Americans pulled out completely, once they started talking about it particularly, which we have been doing for years under the Trump administration, then under the Biden administration, it undercut the Afghan government and Afghan military.

ACOSTA: All right, Peter Bergen, thank you very much. And we will continue to watch that ceremony as it unfolds up on Capitol Hill.

Peter, as always, appreciate those insights. Still ahead: Vice President Kamala Harris, former President Donald

Trump getting ready to face off in their first debate. I will ask Congressman Eric Swalwell what his fellow Californian Kamala Harris needs to do tonight. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:23:59]

ACOSTA: All right, right now up on Capitol Hill, you're looking at the ceremony that is just getting started there honoring the 13 troops who were killed during the Afghanistan withdrawal. Their family members are there. Members of both parties are attending that ceremony to honor those service members.

We will keep on top of that, keep following that as it unfolds.

And joining me now to talk about this and other issues, Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell of California.

Congressman, I do want to ask you about this event. It's happening as Republicans are trying to tie Vice President Harris to the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan. The ceremony is happening the day of the debate. Is politics being injected into this? What's going on, in your view?

REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA): I'm headed to that ceremony as soon as we wrap, Jim. It rightfully honors the U.S. soldiers who served in Afghanistan. And my hope is that those families see a bipartisan picture of support for their service.

It also, frankly, is in contrast of what Donald Trump has done with these families, which is, he's weaponized them to make a political point to try and smear his opponent and also to try and rewrite the history of Afghanistan.

[11:25:13]

I mean, this is a guy who negotiated with the Taliban and was outnegotiated and released over 5,000 members of the Taliban and would have kept us in an endless war if his policy stayed in place.

But today is not about Donald Trump. Thankfully, he's not there. It's really giving these families and their service members their due.

ACOSTA: And I do want to ask you about other issues.

Apparently, former President Trump -- not apparently -- he did over the weekend made more threats about imprisoning election officials who he sees as cheats. He calls them cheats, unfounded, baseless accusation, in the election in November. What was your response to that when you saw that?

SWALWELL: Donald Trump wants to be a dictator. He tells us that every day and he makes threats like a dictator. It's on us, though, as to whether we're going to let that happen in

our country, because we know, when you have a dictator, rights can vanish. Women enjoyed the right to make a decision about their own bodies for 50 years, and then he put three justices on the court who have worked out of his hand and that right has vanished like that.

And so we know other rights will vanish. We know people will have to resort to communicating through Signal and encrypted messages and worry about people knocking on their door in the dead of the night to come after them if they dissent against their government.

That's where he wants to take us. There's a lot of excitement about Kamala Harris and the prospect of bearing this movement. But I will tell you, Jim, just 50-ish days out on November 5, we don't count joy. We count votes.

And so we have work to do if we don't want to live the way that Donald Trump would have us live.

ACOSTA: Are you worried about what might unfold after the November election, whatever they might be? You have worked closely with a lot of the police officers who were attacked on January 6 at the Capitol.

What about that? Might we see another January 6 coming with some of the rhetoric that the former president is using?

SWALWELL: He certainly wants that to happen.

And, first, give me the problem that we have won the election and he's trying again to overturn it, because we don't have that problem yet. We have to win this election first. And that's what I'm focused on doing. And I am motivated, of course, for my country, my constituents, my own family and the risk that he brings to all of that, which is why we have to tell the story of Donald Trump and what he would do again to our country, completely unhinged, if he's president.

But we're not going to let that happen. And, tonight, we start, I think, a process of showing the country a sharp contrast between darkness in Donald Trump and compassion in Kamala Harris and someone who thinks about your viewers, rather than just themselves, as Donald Trump does every day.

ACOSTA: And, Congressman, I did want to ask you, because the latest polling shows that Kamala Harris and Donald Trump are locked in a very tight race at this point.

She may be ahead by one or two points or vice versa. According to some of the latest polling, according to this "New York Times"/Siena College poll, there's a large chunk of the American people who say they want to know more about the vice president.

What does she need to do tonight to accomplish some of that, to fill in some of those blanks?

SWALWELL: Tonight, you're going to see the difference between a bright future and an old fraud. And she needs to make sure people understand she's going to wake up every day and fight for them, that the safety you want for your kids and their school, that's a priority for her.

The cost of groceries and gas that we all need to come down, she's going to go after those who are gouging us, the companies that are raising the prices and making us all pay more. Having security on our border, she's not going to play politics with it. She's going to go for a solution, not for the politics.

And then she needs to tell the story of how she's always done this. She and I both got our start in the same prosecutor's office in Oakland. We didn't overlap, but we worked for the same boss. And that boss described the prosecutor's office as an aircraft carrier. He said some lawyers work on the flight crew.

Some lawyers, very few amount of lawyers, are the fighter pilots who take on the hardest cases and bring justice. And when you ask anyone in that office what kind of lawyer was Kamala Harris, they will say she was a fighter pilot. She's tough, she's real, she cares about justice, and she has to make that clear to every American tonight.

ACOSTA: All right, Congressman Eric Swalwell, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it.

SWALWELL: My pleasure. Thanks, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right, we will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)