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Harris and Trump Face Off in Fiery Presidential Debate; Harris, Trump Offer Differing Views on Putin's War; IDF Shows Tunnel Where 6 Slain Hostages Were Held. Aired 4-4:30a ET

Aired September 11, 2024 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:00]

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: They're eating the dogs, the people that came in, they're eating the cats, they're eating the pets.

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S. (D) AND U.S. PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: People start leaving his rallies early out of exhaustion and boredom.

TRUMP: This is a radical left liberal that would do this.

TRUMP: She wants to confiscate your guns.

HARRIS: We're not taking anybody's guns away so stop with the continuous lying about this stuff.

TRUMP: That is a war that's dying to be settled. I will get it settled before I even become president.

HARRIS: It's important to remind the former president you're not running against Joe Biden, you're running against me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Live from London, this is CNN NEWSROOM with Max Foster and Christina Macfarlane.

CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and a warm welcome to our viewers joining us from around the world. I'm Christina Macfarlane. It's Wednesday, September 11th, 9 a.m. here in London, 4 a.m. in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, where Donald Trump and Kamala Harris have wrapped up their first presidential debate. And the Harris campaign is apparently so pleased with her performance, it's calling for a second debate next month.

The vice president surprised her Republican rival by walking over to shake his hand at the outset. Harris repeatedly baited Trump on issues like crowd size and the January 6th insurrection. Trump tried to score points on the economy and immigration, but he's being widely criticized for a false and outrageous claim that Haitian migrants in Ohio are catching and eating family pets.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: What they have done to our country by allowing these millions and millions of people to come into our country and look at what's happening to the towns all over the United States. In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in, they're eating the cats, they're eating, they're eating the pets of the people that live there. And this is what's happening in our country. And it's a shame.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: Well, CNN Instant Poll shows 63 percent of the debate watchers thought Harris won the debate, 37 percent thought Trump won. Trump and Harris clashed on a number of international issues as well, including the wars in Ukraine and Gaza, the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan and China's growing influence. Harris appeared to get under Trump's skin, pointing out his affinity for dictators like Vladimir Putin.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S. (D) AND U.S. PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: It is absolutely well known that these dictators and autocrats are rooting for you to be president again because they're so clear they can manipulate you with flattery and favors. And that is why so many military leaders who you have worked with have told me you are a disgrace. That is why we understand that we have to have a president who is not consistently weak and wrong on national security.

TRUMP: And she's the one that caused it. That's weak on national security by allowing every nation last month for the year 168 different countries sending people into our country. Their crime weights are way down.

Putin endorsed her last week, said, I hope she wins. And I think he meant it because what he's gotten away with is absolutely incredible. It wouldn't have happened with me.

The leaders of other countries think that they're weak and incompetent, and they are. They're grossly incompetent.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACFARLANE: Well, a key celebrity endorsement came just minutes after the debate ended. Pop star Taylor Swift says she will vote for Kamala Harris. In a post on Instagram, Swift said Harris fights for the causes she believes in, including LGBTQ plus rights and a woman's right to own her body.

Swift also blasted Trump for reposting AI images of her falsely endorsing him. She signed the post, Taylor Swift, childless cat lady.

And we'll now on the historic debate from CNN's Jeff Zeleny in Philadelphia.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF U.S. NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: With two

months remaining in the race for the White House, Vice President Harris making the case Tuesday night, it's a very different race.

HARRIS: First of all, it's important to remind the former President, you're not running against Joe Biden, you're running against me.

ZELENY (voice-over): In a red hot Philadelphia debate, the two rivals trying to break their deadlock for the White House.

[04:05:00]

HARRIS: I believe in the ambition, the aspirations, the dreams of the American people. And that is why I imagine and have actually a plan to build what I call an opportunity economy.

TRUMP: The people of our country are absolutely dying with what they've done. They've destroyed the economy.

ZELENY (voice-over): Harris repeatedly baited Trump on the size of his rallies, his criminal cases, and even how world leaders view him.

HARRIS: I have traveled the world as vice president of the United States. And world leaders are laughing at Donald Trump.

ZELENY: Former President Donald Trump took that bait repeatedly, but also pushed back against Harris's assertions she's an agent of change. Saying she's part of the Biden and responsible for inflation.

TRUMP: And remember this. She is Biden. You know, she's trying to get away from Biden. I don't know the gentleman, she says. She is Biden. The worst inflation we've ever had. A horrible economy because inflation has made it so bad that you can't get away with that.

ZELENY: From abortion rights to immigration to the economy and world affairs. It was a heated 90 minute debate here in Philadelphia. There is no question that Harris was seen by most observers and indeed our CNN instant poll as the winner of the debate.

Moments after the debate ended, the Harris campaign challenged Donald Trump to a second debate in October. Trump did not say whether he would accept that. But there is no doubt this race as it heads into the final two months looks far different today than it did when the week began.

Jeff Zeleny, CNN, Philadelphia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACFARLANE: Well, Donald Trump spoke with reporters in the spin room after the debate. He claimed that the moderators were very unfair, but still thought he was the winner.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We thought was our best debate ever. My best debate ever, I think. And we had a it was very interesting.

It showed how weak they are. How pathetic they are and what they're doing to destroy our country on the border with foreign trade, with everything that I think was the best debate I've ever personally that I've had.

She wants a second debate because she lost the night very badly. So they what -- they immediately call for a second debate because they lost.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: Donald Trump speaking in the spin room there. Not typically something a candidate does if they think the debate has gone well. Thomas Gift is joining us. He's the director of the Centre on U.S. Politics at University College London, joining us from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Good to see you.

I think the consensus was last night that Kamala Harris won this debate and her approach from the start was to throw Donald Trump off his stride. What do you make of her strategy and of the performance of both?

THOMAS GIFT, DIRECTOR, CENTRE ON U.S. POLITICS, UNIVERSITY COLLEGE LONDON: Well, thanks so much for having me, Christine. I think you're absolutely right.

What most struck me is that Harris was almost always on offense. Trump was almost always on defense. Harris made the debate a referendum on Trump in his first four years in office, which is exactly what she wanted to do. I mean, there were no shortage of opportunities for Trump to call out Harris's evolution on policies, whether that was on immigration, on fracking, on health care.

But he was never able to pin her down on those issues. Instead, he let Harris dictate the tone of the debate. He spent his time on irrelevant issues, as was mentioned, like defending the size of his crowds at MAGA rallies.

I think he let Harris get under his skin. That was Harris's strategy from the get-go, and my sense is that she largely succeeded.

MACFARLANE: Yes, and as you say, he did spend quite a lot of time on irrelevant issues, but also veered quite frequently into conspiracy theories. I mean, perhaps the most outlandish of all his claims last night was this one. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: What they have done to our country by allowing these millions and millions of people to come into our country, and look at what's happening to the towns all over the United States.

In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in, they're eating the cats, they're eating, they're eating the pets of the people that live there. And this is what's happening in our country, and it's a shame.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: I mean, that was a conspiracy theory, widely shared, falsely shared online, and also, frankly, is just palpably racist, some would say as well. I mean, how much damage do you think Donald Trump has done himself by making comments like that, but also in the manner in which he delivered them, which was very angry, very scowling? How do you think that plays with voters?

GIFT: Well, I think for any other candidate, comments like those would be disqualifying for office. But at the same time, we've heard so many conspiracy theories from Donald Trump. We have seen so much coarse language from his campaign. He's been so vulgar for so long. I'm not really sure if it changes the basic dynamics of the race.

Donald Trump is who he is. All voters know that.

[04:10:00]

And so I'm not sure, even despite so many comments like the ones that you just showed, whether Harris really gets a huge bump, whether Trump really falls down from this debate. I think we're going to kind of keep on going on as we have up until this point.

MACFARLANE: I mean, the consensus was, as I mentioned, that Harris, you know, beat Trump tonight, came out on top in this debate. But how much or how well did she do in educating viewers as to who she is and what her policies are, because we know heading into this debate that that was a big issue with voters in the polls.

GIFT: Absolutely. I think between the convention and now this debate, Americans have a much better sense of who Kamala Harris is. I mean, going into last night, still about 30 percent of Americans said that they wanted to know more about Kamala Harris.

She definitely made last night a referendum on Trump. I don't think she talked as much on policies as maybe she could have, but at the same time, maybe that's not a bad thing for her. She released on Sunday a set of policies for the first time on her internet site, basically saying where she stood on immigration, on healthcare, on climate, on education, and so on.

And I think Americans do have a better sense of who she is now than before. I mean, of course, she was in a very unusual position insofar as she didn't have to run a typical primary campaign. She's also impermeably tied to Joe Biden's record for good or for bad.

MACFARLANE: Well, CNN's instant Poll of Polls obviously -- well, CNN's instant poll puts Kamala Harris ahead, but it also noted that 17 percent of Trump supporters were now more likely than Harris supporters to reconsider their vote after this debate.

So I guess the big question, Thomas, how is this going to shift the dial with swing states, with un-deciders? Do you feel that anything has been fundamentally altered by this debate? GIFT: Yes, I mean, that's a non-trivial number that you just cited. At the same time, you know, Americans have really short attention spans and something could happen today, something could happen tomorrow that really shifts their attention to some other issue. This race is so close. I mean, if you look at the polls, 47, 46, 46, 48, just depends on kind of what poll you're looking at.

On the margins, pretty much everything matters. So this debate definitely could matter, could give Kamala Harris some momentum going into these final weeks of the campaign, but I'm still not sure if this fundamentally changes the landscape of the race.

But if you're a Harris supporter, certainly you feel better now than you did before the last evening.

MACFARLANE: Do you think perhaps, though, that Taylor Swift coming in at the 11th hour to endorse Kamala Harris last night with her, what is it, 283 million followers, though, might have an impact?

GIFT: You know, I do think that that may have an impact. Typically, I say that endorsements don't matter, but Taylor Swift is Taylor Swift. We all know that.

I mean, the crowd sizes that she gets compared to Donald Trump, I don't think Trump wants to get into a debate over that. She has an enormous following, probably not too surprising that she came out against Trump giving previous comments that she has made, but don't underestimate her power. I think that's one thing that we can say for sure.

MACFARLANE: She definitely has the ability to change economies even. So we'll wait and see what the impact is on this race. Thomas Giff, for now, thanks very much.

GIFT: Thanks, Christine.

MACFARLANE: Now, during the debate, Harris and Trump both spoke about how they'd handle Russia's war on Ukraine and how they'd deal with Russian President Vladimir Putin. It was another heated topic.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: That is a war that's dying to be settled. I will get it settled before I even become president. If I win, when I'm president elect, and what I'll do is I'll speak to one, I'll speak to the other, I'll get them together.

That war would have never happened. And in fact, when I saw Putin after I left, unfortunately left because our country has gone to hell. But after I left, when I saw him building up soldiers, he did it after I left.

I said, oh, he must be negotiating. It must be a good, strong point of negotiation. Well, it wasn't, and it's only getting worse and it could lead to World War III.

HARRIS: Because of our support, because of the air defense, the ammunition, the artillery, the Javelins, the Abrams tanks that we have provided, Ukraine stands as an independent and free country. If Donald Trump were president, Putin would be sitting in Kyiv right now. And understand what that would mean, because Putin's agenda is not just about Ukraine.

Understand why the European allies and our NATO allies are so thankful that you are no longer president.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACFARLANE: Well, CNN's Fred Pleitgen is joining us now live from Kyiv. And Fred, it's very clear that these candidates have different views on the war in Ukraine. What did you make of the raft of comments made last night? And in particular, Donald Trump's continued call to end the war in Ukraine.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Christina, first of all, really interesting comments from both candidates there on the war in Ukraine.

[04:15:00]

And obviously the Ukrainians, certainly also the Ukrainian authorities, definitely very much listening very closely at what was said at that presidential debate.

I don't think anybody here in Ukraine believes that former President Trump would be able to solve this war within a couple of days, as he put it, or even as he put it there, before he becomes president. But certainly, the Ukrainians understand that no matter who becomes president, they're going to have to work with that person and try to make the best of it. There is, of course, the hope among Ukrainians that possibly President Donald Trump, if he becomes president, would possibly take a tough stance towards Russia, would help Ukraine to at least get into a better negotiating position.

But there certainly is the fear also that any sort of negotiation would also very much involve Ukraine possibly having to give up territory. And that's definitely something that right now the leaders of this country certainly say they are not willing to do. So there is a great deal of uncertainty about this U.S. presidential election.

And on the other hand, just hearing there what Vice President Harris was saying, obviously the Ukrainians say they're extremely grateful for all the help they've gotten from the United States. Of course, that help is very much substantial. But of course, they also say that they do need a lot more, and they also need the United States to lift some of the restrictions that they have placed on especially longer distance weapons to allow the Ukrainians to use those weapons against Russian territory, but also to strike deeper into Russian territory.

And of course, that's something that's become a lot more urgent over the past couple of days when even the United States has said that they now believe that Iran has also given the Russians ballistic missiles of short range. But that also opens a whole another flurry of possibilities for the Russians to use the ballistic missile arsenal that they already have.

The Ukrainians are saying they need more air defense weapons, but they also need to be able to strike back more efficiently, and they believe that the United States would be the key to that. And they believe they haven't seen enough yet from the Biden administration.

So certainly, as far as the presidential debate is concerned, obviously for Ukraine's future, it is extremely important who the next president will be. I think a lot of them believe that if Donald Trump were to become the next president for them, things could look more difficult and certainly more uncertain.

But at the same time, there are also things where they do wish that the Biden administration, of course, Kamala Harris is part of the Biden administration, would take a much tougher stance towards Russia, and certainly as far as supplying weapons is concerned, would lift some of those restrictions that the Ukrainians now believe are making them fight with one hand tied behind their back -- Christina.

MACFARLANE: Yes, and on that point, Fred, we know that U.S. Secretary of State Blinken has been in Europe this week. He was actually in U.K. just yesterday. What more do we know about his plans and about the discussions being having behind the scenes about lifting those restrictions?

PLEITGEN: Yes, very important. And of course, Secretary of State Blinken is expected to come here to Ukraine as well. And that is definitely one of the things that's going to be on the minds of Ukrainians.

It is an important visit also, because of course, Ukraine now has a new foreign minister, Andrii Sybiha, who's just been in his office a couple of days, obviously wants to make his mark. But we do also notice a marked difference in Ukraine's foreign policy posture. If we look back to this past week, the Rammstein meeting where, of course, new weapons packages for Ukraine were decided upon.

President Zelenskyy of Ukraine went to that meeting personally to try and lobby the allies to give not only more weapons, but specifically also lobby the United States to lift some of those restrictions. And that's definitely something that Secretary of State Blinken can also expect so when he comes here to Kyiv, for the Ukrainians to say, look, we need to be able to strike deeper into Russian territory. We need to be able to hit some of those airfields from which the Russians are launching frontline bombers that are so devastating right now to Ukrainian frontline positions, and also to be able to hit some of those Russian frontline troops that are staging in the areas on Russian territory.

So all of those things are definitely things that the Ukrainians have on their mind and something that they've already put to the Biden administration, for instance, in Rammstein, but also when Ukraine's defense minister went to Washington DC a couple of weeks ago to provide the U.S. with the targets that the Ukrainians want to hit and ask for permissions to be able to use those longer distance weapons to do exactly that -- Christina.

MACFARLANE: All right, well, we'll keep a close eye to see how that visit goes to Kyiv. But for now, Fred Pleitgen, thanks very much.

In Mexico, a vote on sweeping judicial reform passed in the Senate after protests outside the chamber temporarily put the debate on hold.

Lawmakers were forced to evacuate as protesters broke down the doors and pushed their way into the upper house's sessions hall. One person was injured in the unrest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CROWD CHANTS IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: The reform calls for Mexicans to elect judges by popular vote at all levels instead of being nominated by the president or selected by a judicial commissioner.

[04:20:00]

President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador says the overhaul is necessary to end judicial corruption. But critics call it a power grab that will compromise one of the last checks on presidential power.

And right now, the illuminated columns of the Tribute in Light Memorial are filling the skies over Manhattan, marking 23 years since the worst terrorist attack in U.S. history. 2,977 people were killed on September 11th, 2001, when Al-Qaeda terrorists hijacked four U.S. commercial flights, crashing two into the twin towers of the World Trade Center, one into the Pentagon and one into a field in the Pennsylvania countryside after passengers tried to get control of the aircraft to prevent an attack on the U.S. Capitol.

In the coming hours, memorials will be held at all three spots to honor those killed on that terrible day. And friends and family will gather to read the names of the victims aloud and bells will ring out in remembrance.

Alongside the mourners will be politicians, including President Joe Biden, Vice President Kamala Harris and Donald Trump. They will come to pay their respects, but relatives of some of the victims say they need to do more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANGELA MISTRULLI, LOST FATHER ON 9/11: While it is heartening to see our elected officials attend our memorials and post tributes on social media, these gestures, though they are greatly and deeply appreciated, are not enough. The true measure of commitment today to honor the victims and support their families lies in the actions beyond symbolic moments. We need our leaders to champion and pass the American Victims of Terrorism Compensation Act as soon as possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: Well, the bill being referred to is a bipartisan measure that aims to shore up the U.S. Victims of State-Sponsored Terrorism Fund.

Now next, a look inside the tunnels where Israel says the six hostages were found dead of being held and why the IDF says it couldn't get there in time to save them.

Plus, fanfare for the Pope's arrival in Singapore. We'll have the latest on his tour of Southeast Asia and the Pacific just ahead.

And later, after a successful launch, the hard work begins for the crew of the Polaris Dawn, what they hope to accomplish on their historic mission.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: She hates Israel. She wouldn't even meet with Netanyahu when he went to Congress to make a very important speech. She refused to be there because she was at a sorority party of hers. She wanted to go to the sorority party.

She hates Israel. If she's president, I believe that Israel will not exist within two years from now.

HARRIS: What we know is that this war must end. It must end immediately. And the way it will end is we need a ceasefire deal and we need the hostages out.

[04:25:00]

And so we will continue to work around the clock on that. Work around the clock also understanding that we must chart a course for a two- state solution. And in that solution, there must be security for the Israeli people and Israel and an equal measure for the Palestinians. But the one thing I will assure you always, I will always give Israel the ability to defend itself.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACFARLANE: As Donald Trump and Kamala Harris there responding to a question about Israel during the US presidential debates. We're joining me now to reflect on that. CNN's Paula Hancocks live from Abu Dhabi.

And Paula, I don't know how it seemed to you, but it felt to me like there was nothing particularly substantive to come from either candidate on the issue of Israel-Gaza or nothing we hadn't heard before. What did you make of it?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Christina, you're right. I mean, certainly what we heard from the vice president was very consistent with what she has been saying. And what we heard from the former president, Donald Trump, was really an attack.

We didn't hear what he would do to push forward a ceasefire in Gaza. He didn't actually ask the question, but he did attack Vice President Harris by saying she hates Israel, by saying that Israel could collapse within two years if she was president. And you could see, even though the mics were muted, which was part of the rules of this debate, you could lip read the vice president saying, oh, come on, when he said that, trying to dismiss that.

It worth pointing out that Trump didn't actually offer any evidence for what he was saying there. He then went on to say she hates the Arab population, saying it would be disastrous and the whole place is going to get blown up.

So what we saw from Trump was a complete attack without evidence and some baseless accusations, but he didn't actually say what he would do to push the ceasefire forward, saying that it would never have happened in the first place if he were president.

When it comes to the Vice President, Kamala Harris, we heard something that she has been saying for some time now that it is Israel's right to self-defense. They do have that right saying we would, insinuating that the U.S. would do exactly the same had it come under attack the way that Israel did on October 7th, but also saying there has to be a ceasefire deal. There's very little space between her and the U.S. President Joe Biden when it comes to this. Although with this ceasefire hostage deal, we have heard from Biden administration officials recently acknowledging that they're not as close as they would hope to be at this point. And she then pushed on to say we have to chart the course for the two-state solution.

Now we have had one response from Israel, from the Israeli opposition leader, Yair Lapid, and he said what he saw was two leaders on stage arguing about who was more pro-Israel.

So he was heartened by the fact that both candidates do appear to be supportive of Israel -- Christina.

MACFARLANE: And Paula, meanwhile, away from the debate yesterday, the IDF released a prerecorded video that shows the inside of the tunnel where they retrieved the hostages, the bodies of the six hostages. I just want to show a few as a bit of that. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

READ ADM. DANIEL HAGARI, IDF SPOKESPERSON: The tunnel shaft was in a children room, in a house. Those are the walls of this children room. We are gathering all the stuff here for forensics, for intelligence.

We can see magazines, and AK-47 magazine, chargers, all used by the terrorists, Quran books, a hairbrush.

But they were here in this tunnel in horrific conditions, where there is no air to breathe, where you cannot stand. And they survived, but they were murdered by terrorists.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: I mean, it is remarkable, Paula, how small those tunnels are. And Israel says there are many more like them across Gaza.

HANCOCKS: That's right. I mean, it really does drive home the difficult conditions that these six hostages in particular were being held in. We don't know how long for. The IDF says they're looking into that at this point.

But you did have the spokesperson there also during that prerecorded video saying there were more than 100 hostages who are still being held in Gaza. Some of them will be held in conditions like that.

So really devastating footage for those who still have loved ones being held hostage and for those of the six who were killed. Now we did hear from the cousin of Carmel Gat. She's one of those six who was killed last month by Hamas in that tunnel.

[04:30:00]

And she said that they were being held in a torture chamber after she watched that video, but also saying it's not the torture that killed them, but military pressure reached them before the deal did, pushing again, pushing again for a hostage ceasefire deal.

We heard from the Israeli military though as well saying that they simply didn't have the intelligence to be able to launch a rescue mission for those six, that they didn't have the details of the exact location of the six hostages before they found them dead, so it was impossible for them to try and launch any kind of rescue operation -- Christina.

MACFARLANE: All right, Paula Hancocks for us there live, thanks Paula.