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Trump Refuses to Face Harris Again on the Debate Stage; Tyreek Hill Calls for Officer at Center of Detainment to be Fired; New Calls for Miami Dolphins Q.B. to Retire After Another Concussion. Aired 10- 10:30a ET

Aired September 13, 2024 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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KAMALA HARRIS, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I believe we owe it to have another debate. We owe it to the voters.

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Because we've done two debates and because they were successful, there will be no third debate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: Ditching a debate rematch, why Donald Trump's refusal to take part in a second debate with Kamala Harris is so consequential.

Plus, Tyreek Hill's attorney joins us in just a few moments on what justice looks like for the NFL star after this controversial traffic stop.

And --

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MIKE MCDANIEL, MIAMI DOLPHINS HEAD COACH: My thought was concern and I was just worried about my guy.

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ACOSTA: -- scary moments for another Dolphins player, this time on the field as concussions in the NFL are once again back in the spotlight.

You are live in the CNN Newsroom. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington. Good morning.

We begin the hour with former President Donald Trump refusing to face Vice President Kamala Harris for a second time on the debate stage.

Joining me now, CNN political Commentators Paul Begala and Scott Jennings. Guys, I just want to jump right into this. Scott, I'll just go to your first. What happened to anytime, anywhere, any place? Why do you think Trump is backing down?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He doesn't need another debate. Nothing's good can come from it. I think the way he prepared for the last one and the way the moderators treated him combined to convince them that it's just not worth his time, he's not scoring any points at these things necessarily. So, I think we're going to have a campaign without any other major events that at least are going to be scheduled to change the flow of the water. We're going to grind it out over the next two months.

I think if he agreed to another debate, it is entirely likely that the moderators would be even harder on him than the last ones. And, you know, what good is going to come of it for the Republicans? So, I think he's making the right decision.

ACOSTA: And, Paul, what do you think? I mean, the polling consistently shows that viewers think Trump lost that debate by a wide margin, had far more viewers had a positive view of Kamala Harris. Trump is insisting he won the debate. Obviously, I mean, that just is not in line with the polling. But what are your thoughts on this?

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Oh, you know, anytime somebody is whining about the rest, it's because they lost. And I love Scott. I love you, Scott. I used to coach my kids. And if they lost and they whined about the rest, they had to run laps. So, Jennings got to go ahead and hit the trail and run some laps because the moderators were perfectly fine. They fact-checked Trump three, four times. He lied 33 times. So, 10 percent of the lies were called out for Donald Trump. And we all know that.

ACOSTA: And Trump had more time at the end of the day.

JENNINGS: She didn't lie? Wait you're actually going to say she didn't lie? Oh, you'll be right behind me on the track then if you want to run.

BEGALA: Trump needs a rule. Where they mute his mic when he is speaking, because that's what went wrong for Trump. He said these batty things. By the way, we're all focused on whether immigrants are eating cats in Ohio. He also said that he has the concept of a plan to replace Obamacare, take health care away from 50 million Americans who signed up for Obamacare, and he has a concept that he's going to give. He also said he wouldn't rule out signing a national ban on abortion. He damaged himself so greatly.

Now, I wonder that we might still have another debate, Scott, I disagree, because Trump's brand used to be strength and he just looks so weak. He just looks weak. He needs a hug. You know, he just looks pathetic and weak and that's not a good look for Donald Trump.

ACOSTA: No, and I have to think that it's not case closed on this, Scott. I think there's a chance that Trump reverses himself again and says, you know what, let's do a debate, right? JENNINGS: Maybe. I don't know. Again I don't know what good would come from it. But look, he's debated seven times. Six times the snap polls have said he did not win the debate. One time he debated Joe Biden and he had to drop out of the entire campaign. But most of the time this is always judged to go against Trump.

Now, whether it's fatal or not, I don't think it is.

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And I do think he scored some points on the economy. I'm amazed by these attacks on health care. Yes, he said he had the concepts of what he wanted to do on health care, which is much farther down the road than anything Kamala Harris said about the economy, which she ignored the question about and whether they -- or any responsibility, or what she said about immigration, which she ignored and pivoted immediately to talking about his rallies.

ACOSTA: You know, Scott, you and I, we all remember Trump trying to kill Obamacare when he was president, and then he never came up with a health care -- I mean, I do want to ask about this because Trump was spewing even more conspiracies at his rally yesterday. He was in rally mode, like the way he was in rally mode at the debate. Let's listen to this.

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TRUMP: Polls clearly show that I won the debate against Comrade Kamala Harris.

Your child goes to school and they don't even call you. And they change the sex of your child.

20,000 illegal Haitian immigrants have descended upon the town of 58,000 people, destroying their entire way of life.

Migrants are walking off with the town's geese. They're taking the geese. You know where the geese are? In the park, in the lake, and even walking off with their pets. My dog's been taken.

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ACOSTA: Now, there's real world consequences to that rhetoric. Springfield, Ohio's newspaper reports that recent bomb threats came from someone who mentioned frustration with the city over Haitian immigration issues. This stuff can lead to real violence. We saw it at the Walmart in El Paso, with the Tree of Life Synagogue. I mean, on a serious note, I mean, there are consequences to this stuff, Scott.

And I just have to wonder, we were talking about the Biden-Trump debate a little while ago, and there were all these calls for Biden to drop out of the race and step aside after that debate performance. When the former president is talking about people stealing geese and eating dogs and cats, I mean, shouldn't there be a conversation about whether Trump should step aside even at this late stage? JENNINGS: No, come on. He's the Republican nominee. He went through a primary. And unlike the Democrats, we actually respect the democratic process. We had people vote. They voted for Trump.

ACOSTA: And, Scott, I remember you going on and on about Joe Biden, going on and on about President Biden after that debate. And I'm just what -- do you think that Trump is all there? Is he a sound mind, talking about people stealing geese and --

JENNINGS: Donald Trump is the same candidate today that he was in '16 and '20. One time, he won. One time, he lost. I don't know whether he's going to win or lose this time, but I don't see -- I mean, he is the same and he represents the same kind of politics that he always has. I don't know if it's going to be enough this time, but, no, I think to compare him to the absolutely mentally vacant Joe Biden is kind of ridiculous, honestly.

ACOSTA: Paul, your thought?

BEGALA: Oh, look, this is the difference between the Democrats and Republicans. Democrats have a political party. Political parties exist to win. Biden didn't look like he could win, so the Democrats replaced him with someone who can. Mr. Trump, Scott's right, he's a fatally flawed candidate. A boy needs a checkup from the neck up. Okay, he's cracking up. He's under a lot of pressure. I mean, anybody would, I think, be under pressure, 34 felony convictions being sued left, right, and center, found adjudicated, liable for sexually abusing a woman on Fifth Avenue. So, he's under enormous stress, and he's cracking under that stress. That's what's happening here.

And I think it's sad. It may be too late, Jim. We're only 53 days in the election. But early voting is starting in just six or seven days in a lot of states. And those ballots are starting to go out North Carolina, particularly. So, it may be too late. They may just be stuck with this guy.

And, by the way, for all that it's a dead heat race. It is a coin toss, man. And I think Scott would agree with that. This is no way either side is winning in this right now. It's time --

JENNINGS: 100 percent. Paul is totally right. It is a dead heat nationally. It is a dead heat in the swing states. Either of them could win. I don't really -- I mean, I have no idea who is going to win. It is absolutely on a razor's edge.

ACOSTA: All right, guys, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

We're going to switch gears now, go to Miami. Tyreek Hill and the Dolphins were back on the field last night to take on the Buffalo Bills just days after his controversial detainment captured the attention of the nation. As police investigate the incident, we're hearing some new details about how it could have escalated even further. Here's what one reporter says could have gone down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MIKE FLORIO, HOST, PFT LIVE: When you say, arrested, do you mean they were ready to take them downtown, they're not going to be available to play in the game, arrested in that way?

OMAR KELLY, MIAMI HERALD SPORTS COLUMNIST: Oh, absolutely. That was the intent. And the officer that got suspended, if you watch all of the body cam footage, and I did that yesterday, you could see him talking to other co-workers and complaining about the fact that they were not arrested.

The intent was to arrest them.

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ACOSTA: Joining me now is Julis Collins. He is Tyreek Hill's attorney. Thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. Glad that Tyreek Hill is doing okay and back in action, as he should be on the football field.

I do want to ask you about what we just heard, that reporter, Omar Kelly, saying that the incident was defused when the Dolphins head of security, Drew Brooks, intervened.

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Can you speak to that? And is it possible that they almost took Tyreek Hill to the police station after this?

JULIS COLLINS, TYREEK HILL'S ATTORNEY: Absolutely. I think all of the body cameras totaled about 105 minutes, somewhere around there. So, you can -- Danny Torres was heard saying, hey, we're going to take you to jail. And of course, Tyreek, they're going back and forth. And you can also hear other by the camera and other officers and Danny Torres, from my understanding, complaining as to why wasn't he taken to jail or how he was adamant that he wanted to take him to jail.

And Drew Brooks is an amazing guy. He's head of security for the Miami Dolphins. And fortunate enough, he was able to get there and really try to calm down the situation as far as the officers trying to take Tyreek to jail, absolutely.

ACOSTA: And you said earlier this week that you're exploring all legal remedies. What does that look like?

COLLINS: Legal remedies, it goes beyond any financial conversation. Some of the demands that Tyreek, he's expressed to me is the truthful and honest conversation about being African-American and have a relations or a better relationship with law enforcement or how law enforcement actually patrols black communities, a truthful conversation about that, more policy change, more training as it relates to de-escalation tactics used by law enforcement and overall just honest conversation about what took place in that moment, how it can be avoided what escalation looks like, you know? So, he has more than just the 1983 action purview as far as looking at it. Hey, this is the remedy that he's seeking. He's seeking policy change. ACOSTA: And Julis, you called Officer Torres' actions excessive and reckless, called for his immediate termination. We heard as much from Tyreek Hill this week. The police union, they said that they stand by Torres' actions and that Tyreek Hill was not being cooperative. What's your response to that?

COLLINS: It's just that same old days tale about the blue code of silence, right, the code of silence that exists in many, many police departments and law enforcement, as we know it today. So, the notion that, hey, they're supporting the office, they have to support it. If they come out and say, hey, we adamantly, you know, take offense to what took place. He was escalating it. He was absolutely in the wrong, as far as Danny Torres goes. How does that look as an organization that represents those officers? It doesn't look good. So, they have to stand by that officer.

ACOSTA: And would it help at all if the officer were to come out and make a public apology? I mean, if the department were to do more to take some ownership here, would that, I mean, show some accountability.

COLLINS: I think it would show some accountability, but will that happen? I'm not sure. I think that's a step in the right direction by law enforcement officials of Miami Dade Police Department and Officer Torres. But will it happen? It remains to be seen. But, you know, we're ready and willing to hear whatever they have to say.

ACOSTA: Yes. And your client expressed some regret on his part for how he handled things. Let's play a little bit of that, what he said earlier this week.

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TYREEK HILL, MIAMI DOLPHINS WIDE RECEIVER: Right now, I'm in the process of, you know, putting together a good plan, so that way I can work with those guys, because I think it's good. And I think we should lean on each other, you know? Like we have influence on the community and I don't think that we should, you know, use this as a moment to, you know, separate, you know, people or divide people or, you know, make it a bad aura, anything like that, man.

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ACOSTA: And Mr. Hill also talked about how he wished maybe he had rolled the window down sooner. Can you speak to all of that and the message that Tyreek Hill just had a few moments ago there?

COLLINS: I think that message, it shows what true leadership is, in my opinion, right? It shows, in my opinion, what Miami Dade Police Department and Officer Torres should do, take some accountability for what took place that day. There has been no accountability taken on their behalf as far as Officer Torres escalating the situation. His standard operating procedures talks about de-escalation tactics. He goes to training to learn how to deescalate.

Nowhere on those body cameras did it show Officer Torres de-escalating anything. He actually escalated it with NFL player Joe Newt Smith and also, he actually escalated it with NFL player Jonnu Smith and also Campbell. All of them, it was a snowball effect. They got even officer Batista going who made the traffic stop, who had an exchange with Tyreek. So, his comments are talking, they're referring to Officer Batista. That's when officer Torres stepped in, who we wasn't even a part of the conversation stating that they will break that freaking window if we have to. And then he goes into snatching Mr. Hill out of the car.

So, I believe Mr. Hill is taking accountability, is showing -- it shows what leadership looks like.

ACOSTA: Right. And, I mean, the other thing that I took away from this that really disturbed me was when Tyreek Hill was talking about his knee and how he had had knee surgery, a surgery on his leg, and the officers were sort of scoffing at that.

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I mean, it seems to me in a situation like that, the officers, they have to be listening because you just don't know. We've seen so many incidents like this where there's not a celebrity or a pro football star involved, and it ends tragically because the officers aren't listening to what that person is saying, hey, I have a medical issue, I have this going on.

COLLINS: I think the Officer Torres, I think he absolutely was listening. I think he just didn't care. Even early on in the body camera, once he threw Mr. Hill down to the ground, placed his hand on the back and just the neck, which is obviously we've seen it all around the United States, that's against standard operating procedure to use your hands to go against anyone's throat, right, the pressure against his throat. He did it repeatedly. So, I think he did hear what Mr. Hill was saying. As you heard his follow-up statement was when you didn't have surgery on your ears, you should have been listening earlier.

I just think Officer Torres has to go. I think he escalated the situation. He could have re-injured Mr. Hill's knee. But like you said earlier, Jim, like, what if this -- like Tyreek said, what if this wasn't Tyreek? You know, what about the people that doesn't have his name? What about the situations that a camera isn't rolling? A lot of times we see those, hey, the body camera was defective. It didn't record. Officer didn't start the body camera. The dash cam didn't work. So, what about those people?

And that's another part of it that Tyreek is focusing on to help those individuals whose stories are magically swept underneath the rug and just they don't get responses to open record requests. They can't, they don't even get instruction on how to file a complaint with law enforcement about excessive force. So, that's another portion of what he's aiming towards. But Officer Torres, he absolutely heard Tyreek. He even had a smart comment to make about surgery.

ACOSTA: All right. Julis Collins, thank you very much for your time. All the best to your client. We really appreciate it. COLLINS : Thank you. You have a great one.

ACOSTA: All right, you too.

Coming up, it is not the loss to the Bills the dolphins are worried about. Speaking of the Dolphins, the team's quarterback dealing with yet another concussion. This is not the first time this has happened. The focus shifting back to the safety of the game.

And later, making a deal over his DWI, Justin Timberlake will be back in court in about an hour from now where we do expect him to change his plea. That's coming up.

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ACOSTA: There are new calls this morning for a Miami Dolphins Quarterback Tua Tagovailoa to retire from the National Football League after he suffered yet another concussion last night. It happened during the third quarter of a game against the Buffalo Bills. You can see him right here down on the ground for several minutes before later walking off the field. Listen to what his coach and even rival Q.B. Josh Allen had to say about it.

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MCDANIEL: My thought was concerned and I was just worried about my guy. So, yes, it's, yes, not something that you ever want to be a part of. You know, you hope not to.

JOSH ALLEN, BUFFALO BILLS QUARTERBACK: Understanding what's happened in the past and just knowing that I'm praying for him and his family. He's a great football player, but I've been around him outside of the football field and even amazing human and even more amazing human.

So again, prayers are going out to him and his family and hopefully everything's all right.

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ACOSTA: Joining me now to discuss is CNN Medical Analyst Dr. Jonathan Reiner. Dr. Reiner, always great to see you. This is Tua's third concussion of his NFL career. How serious is this?

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: It's very serious. This might even be his fourth concussion, depending on how you view what happened to him the week before what was supposed to be his first concussion a couple of years ago.

So, it's important to remember that a concussion is just another word for a traumatic brain injury. And, you know, the brain is encased in this bony vault, but there's space between the brain and the skull. And impact causes the brain to shift a bit in the skull and strike the skull. And when that happens, the brain gets injured and nerves get stretched and blood vessels break. And this results in an injury to the brain.

And once you have a concussion, like Tua had in 2022, multiple concussions in 2022, it makes it more likely that you will have subsequent concussions. And each of these events is -- you know, takes longer to recover from, you know, provides yet another injury to the brain and raises concerns about longer term issues, like chronic traumatic encephalopathy, which is a neurodegenerative syndrome, which has been linked to, you know, repetitive head injuries.

So, this is a big deal and it really should raise consideration, strong consideration from Tua for perhaps calling it quits.

ACOSTA: Yes. I mean, that is the discussion in the NFL right now in the sports world is whether this has to be it for Tua. And as we mentioned, this has happened several times before you go back to the 2022 season, like you said, Dr. Reiner, week three, he staggered after a hit, but returned to the game. Week four, he suffered a concussion and missed two games. And then week 16, showing this on screen here, he got another concussion, had to miss two final games, plus the playoffs. It's a cumulative effect as well that you have to be worried about, right?

REINER: Absolutely. You know, the most extreme sort of sequela of this that we've seen in recent years, had to do with the former Patriots tight end, Aaron Hernandez, you know, who was convicted of a murder and ultimately committed suicide in prison.

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And at autopsy, he had horrible -- and he was still a young man, he had horrible evidence of CTE.

You know, if you look at college football players, about a third of college football players have reported at least one concussion. So, this is not a contact sport. It's a collision. And the NFL is working really hard to try and reduce the number of concussions, as evidenced by the changes that they've made in the kickoff rules. But all that is basically geared to try and prevent runbacks. But the risk of concussions during a runback hasn't really changed, because you have these huge, incredibly fast athletes, you know, running into each other.

ACOSTA: Yes. And I have to ask you, Dr. Reiner, if you were to his doctor, what would you tell him to do?

REINER: I'd tell him to retire. You know, as a doctor you know, my responsibility is to the health and not just now, but, you know, he's a very young man for the next -- you know, his next 60 years. And if you think about, you know, old time boxers who were called, you know, punch drunk, that's the cumulative effect, multiple repetitive brain injuries. That's, you know, the sort of end stage or severe effect of that. And his health and life is worth more than, you know, his next paycheck. Although, you know, apparently a good piece of his salary is guaranteed. And I know he loves the sport. All of these remarkably talented NFL athletes love playing the game, but his health is really much more important. ACOSTA: Absolutely. All right, great message, Dr. Reiner. We're hoping for the best for Tua. And always, Dr. Reiner, thanks for your time. Really appreciate it.

REINER: My pleasure.

ACOSTA: All right. And coming up in our next hour of Newsroom, Dr. Sanjay Gupta shows us how changes to one of football's most iconic plays, the kickoff, Dr. Reiner was talking about that a few moments ago, could make the game safer.

But, first, I'll be joined by Nevada Secretary of State Cisco Aguilar after the Trump campaign sued the state over allegations of non- citizen voting. We've been talking about that all week long. We'll talk about it again in just a few moments. We'll get his take next.

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