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President Donald Trump's Campaign Announces He Will Not Participate in Another Presidential Debate with Kamala Harris; Reporting Indicates North Carolina Republican Gubernatorial Candidate Mark Robinson Made Lewd and Explicit Comments on Online Message Board; Israeli Forces Launch Air Strikes on Hezbollah Targets in Lebanon; Overwhelming Majority of CEOs Polled by Yale Think Kamala Harris Will Win Upcoming Presidential Election; Donald Trump Holds Rally in Wilmington, North Carolina; Georgia's Election Board Approves Controversial Rule Calling for Some Ballots to be Hand-Counted on Election Night. Aired 2-3p ET.

Aired September 21, 2024 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: -- anyone was at fault and should be held accountable. For the first time the Coast Guard revealed never before seen video of Titan's wreckage on the ocean floor. All five on board were killed, including OceanGate's CEO, Stockton Rush.

STOCKTON RUSH, OCEANGATE CEO: I've broken some rules to make this.

CARROLL: Lochridge testified Rush ignored safety concerns he raised about the Tital after inspecting it in 2018.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have confidence in the way that the Titan was being built at this time?

DAVID LOCHRIDGE, FORMER OCEANGATE MARINE OPERATIONS DIRECTOR: No confidence whatsoever, and I was very vocal about that.

CARROLL: Lochridge says he was fired in 20187 after relaying his concerns. Experts warned Rush to get Titan class or certified from a safety organization, citing concerns with materials used to construct its haul. But Titan's former director of engineering testified Rush did not want to wait or spend on that.

TONY NISSEN, FORMER OCEANGATE DIRECTOR OF ENGINEERING: One of the days he was crying on my shoulder, it's going to take too long and way too expensive. This is ridiculous. In his words, it stifles innovation.

CARROLL: Today, mission specialist Renata Rojas supported Rush. She says OceanGate was about making dreams come true.

RENATA ROJAS, FORMER OCEANGATE MISSION SPECIALIST: Nothing is going to break our friends back I hope that this investigation creates an understanding that with exploration, there's risk.

CARROLL: Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

All right, just in this hour, former President Donald Trump's campaign just announced the former president will not participate in another presidential debate. And it comes as Vice President Kamala Harris did accept an invitation from CNN to debate the former president on October 23rd. This would be their second meeting on a public debate stage and would have taken place in the final few weeks of the campaign.

So after initially rejecting a second debate with Harris following his September 10th showdown with her in Philadelphia last week, Trump suggested that he might be open to another debate. The CNN debate would mirror the June debate between President Biden and Trump on CNN, which had a very similar format in which Trump and -- in this case, Trump and Harris, would field moderators questions for 90 minutes, and it would be without out a live studio audience and would take place at the CNN studios here in Atlanta.

So again, just a short time ago, I spoke with the Harris campaign communications director who underscored that Harris did agree to it. And the director saying the American voters deserve to see the candidates face off again before the election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL TYLER, DIRECTOR FOR COMMUNICATIONS, HARRIS-WALZ CAMPAIGN: It would be unprecedented in modern American presidential history for the two candidates who are running to only engage in one debate. So we believe that the American people deserve to see that. Donald Trump himself has said -- he said many things when it comes to debates, but he's famously said he's willing to debate anytime, anywhere, anyplace. He thinks he won both debates. So he should have no problem showing up to show off his prowess once again on the debate stage. And we think that's what the American people deserve to see.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, so again, we are told by the Trump campaign that he is not accepting CNN's invitation.

We've got a team of correspondents and analysts covering these developments for us. We'll get to you, chief media analyst Brian Stelter in a moment. First, let's go to you, Steve Contorno, at Trump's rally in North Carolina where the former president is set to speak at any moment. So once again, were hearing from the campaign that Trump is not taking CNN on the invitation to do a second debate?

STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: That's correct. Friday. Kate Sullivan, our reporters spoke just moments ago with the Trump campaign, and they directed her to Trump's previous statement that has put on Truth Social the morning after the debate where he said, quotes, "There will be no third debate." So that is continuing to be his posture heading into these final six weeks here.

Now, of course, Donald Trump is liable to change his mind. He has done it many times in the past. Even as you noted a few moments ago, he, after reporting that statement out, said that he might change his mind if he was, quote, in the right mood. So we'll have to see, but for now, the posture of the campaign is taking that there would be no third debate. Voting has already begun in several of these states and they don't see a need for these two candidates to go head-to-head once more.

WHITFIELD: OK. And then, Steve, do we have any idea what he is likely to talk about today there from Wilmington, North Carolina, where the crowd is waiting? I mean, talk to me about the temperature. Is that hot? It looks really pretty, good weather, so good turnout. But what are they hoping to hear from Trump today, or what is he even planning to say?

[14:05:03]

CONTORNO: Yes, looks are deceiving. It is very hot here, and we actually have seen several people receive medical attention in the audience so far. Trump's plane just landed moments ago, so we expect him to take the stage any minute.

And coming into this this event, he was posting on Truth Social about the women vote and how he hopes to court them this time around. Take a look at this post where he said that women four years ago were poorer, less healthy, less safe, more depressed, less optimistic than they were when he was president. He also said, quote, "You will no longer be thinking about abortion because it has nowhere -- nowhere -- it is where it's always had to be, and that is with the states."

And that obviously is coming after Vice President Harris has made abortion a centerpiece of her campaign against the former president. And look, that's an important issue in states like North Carolina. This is a very dynamic state, one that is fast changing, especially in the suburbs around Charlotte that are growing exponentially. And if you take a look at the polling in the state, women overwhelmingly support Vice President Harris over the former president, 60 percent of them, in fact, in a recent Quinnipiac poll, said that they would support Harris over Donald Trump. That is by a larger margin than President Biden had in this state with women just four years ago. So clearly a concern for Donald Trump as he heads into the final weeks of this race how he is performing with women. And that Truth Social posts is a glimpse into what his message will be to them in this state and all across the country, Fred.

WHITFIELD: OK, Steve, thank you so much.

I want to bring in Brian Stelter now. So Brian, that's the reporting thus far. The Trump campaign is saying that the former president will not participate in another debate, the one that Kamala Harris has agreed to, October 23rd, to be hosted by CNN. Do you think he's going to change his mind?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Mark me down as skeptical, Fred. I think we should keep checking in, maybe we'll hear a different answer tomorrow. And for the following couple of reasons -- number one, the president, the former president, he knows the value of television ratings. And number two, he also knows, even if he doesn't believe the polls, that Harris has been gaining some ground. There's a lot that could happen in the next month or so that could cause Trump to want to have another debate. And now we know the offer is out there. We'll see what happens.

I reported earlier this week from the Harris point of view. Harris was still angling for a debate. She was undeterred by Trump's claims that he wouldn't debate her again. CNN and other networks have been trying to make a rematch happen. So why did Harris agree to this one today? We'll this October 23rd date with CNN, my sources suggest a couple of reasons why Harris agreed. Number one, she wanted to V.P. debate to go first. The V.P. debate scheduled for October 1st between Vance and Walz, that's going to happen no matter what on October 1st.

Second, she wants to get Trump back on to say yes some way. And because Trump was happy with the CNN debate, because he praised CNN afterward, that may have factored into her decision to agree to the CNN offer of October 23rd.

Here's one more twist, Fred. CNN is proposing this new debate happen in Atlanta, the same place where Trump took on Biden. Imagine, right, for Trump, he believes that he knocked Biden out of the race at that CNN debate. So CNN is saying, hey, come back to the same studio here at the CNN headquarters. Let's do it again. We know that as of this afternoon, the campaign says he's not agreeing, but mark me down as skeptical this is going to hold. Honestly, Fred, it's probably, it's probably 50-50.

WHITFIELD: Right. And Donald "The Art of the Deal" Trump, I would imagine, would counter perhaps, or say, well, these are the conditions in which would allow me to say yes. I mean, there's room for that still.

STELTER: Yes, that's a great point. I find it a little bit -- I'm a little bit skeptical that he would want J.D. Vance to have the last word, right? His running mate is going to be debating on October 1st, up against Tim Walz. That's going to be a highly viewed debate on October 1st. Is that really going to be the final debate of the calendar? It may be, but if that is the final debate, Harris will start to do town halls on multiple networks, I'm told, according to a source. So Harris is going to be out there trying to get those television eyeballs. Trump is going to want that as well.

By the way, Larry Sabato, the great political scientist, just made an interesting point on Twitter. He said, yes, by October 23rd, lots of early votes will have been cast. But those are mostly by people that made up their mind months ago. Theres going to be a base of undecided voters who will still have questions by mid and late October. Even on Halloween, they're not going to know who they're going to vote for. That's why a debate late in October might be really valuable if Trump does change his mind.

WHITFIELD: That's right. OK, well, I'll keep it there. I was going to say it could be spooky, could be scary, you know, or you never know, something else. There is still time. All right, Brian Stelter. Thank you so much.

[14:10:00]

All right, joining me right now is the Washington correspondent for "The News and Observer", Danielle Battaglia. Danielle, good to see you. So, you know, Trump is in Wilmington, North Carolina, right now. While his campaign has said he says no to the debate, anything could happen, right? He is a pretty unpredictable, and we'll be listening to see if he has any he kind of other acknowledgement to the CNN invitation on that stage.

So give me an idea who you think besides just his supporters, you know, who is there? What is the Trump that they are expecting to see when they show up for a rally of this caliber in Wilmington, North Carolina?

DANIELLE BATTAGLIA, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, "THE NEWS AND OBSERVER": Republicans in North Carolina are very supportive of Donald Trump, especially the ones that show up to this rally. So these are the Republicans that have his support or give him their support. They are going to be more of the hardcore Trump supporters. And you will see a lot of politicians from North Carolina, from the Republican Party, there supporting him. We've already seen a lot of social media posts from them saying that he's coming and trying to get people excited about his presence in the state.

WHITFIELD: OK, and as we watch these live pictures and still await his arrival, I mean, talk to me about what response and feedback is coming from CNN's reporting about the lewd and explicit comments made by the lieutenant governor who was the Republican gubernatorial candidate, Mark Robinson. We know that the Trump folks have said to him that he's not welcome in this arena, so he's unlikely to show up. And in several other occasions on the campaign trail in North Carolina, the two have been together, Robinson and Trump. So do you think that voters there felt like they knew everything there was to know about Mark Robinson, or are they surprised about this latest reporting in these posts?

BATTAGLIA: I'm not sure "surprised" would be the right word. This is the kind of rhetoric we've seen from Mark Robinson before. I'm not sure it's been this intensified and in their faces, but I also have seeing a lot of feedback that Republicans are not buying the story. They believed that it was fabricated and are believing Mark Robinson's denial of the story and saying that it wasn't real, not to take away from your reporting. You guys did an amazing job reporting this story. But there is some Republican backlash to this where his hardcore supporters are not believing what is been shown to them.

WHITFIELD: So the deadline for Robinson to step down, it passed. Robinson denies the CNN reporting, blaming the website posts in part on artificial intelligence or coming from haters. So do you see that it might impact the outcome of that gubernatorial contest, or even the presidential race outcome in North Carolina? BATTAGLIA: I mean, obviously it's very early on and it's yet to be

seen. I think it could have a lot of different impacts. But I think the major concern for Republicans right now is this is their nominee for governor, and they have to figure out when they have shown so much support for him in the last year-and-a-half, two years, four years of his political career, they now have to figure out if they want to continue to carry that into this election and risk what that will do to the former president and his campaign, but also the down-ballot elections.

So they're kind of in a tough spot trying to figure out how to navigate this very quickly. I've seen some people reacting to my Twitter saying, no, we aren't, we're fine. But the Republicans are being pretty quiet on this right now, so -- the Republican politicians in the GOP down there. So it's -- I'm really curious how he's going to handle this at this rally today.

WHITFIELD: All right, this as, again, we're looking at live pictures there in Wilmington, North Carolina. We just saw Trump's plane arrived there, and soon hell be deplaning and there to awaiting adorning fans there and supporters. So I wonder, Danielle, Trump has been a fan of Robinson. Will voters who are unconditionally sticking with Trump there in North Carolina likely to do the same for Robinson?

BATTAGLIA: I am really fascinated by that question. You saw the statistics you guys showed earlier with women. One of the things that stood out to me this campaign cycle is when I talked to female voters who are supportive of Robinson. Some of his comments he's made about women had really frustrated get them and made them -- they said they'll still support him, but they didn't like his comments. So I'm really curious what the comments that he has been said to make on these social media -- or not social media, on these forums, how that will impact him in the election and whether they are going to stick with him.

[14:15:05]

WHITFIELD: All right, Danielle Battaglia of "The News and Observer," thank you so much.

BATTAGLIA: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right, still ahead this hour in the CNN Newsroom, the death toll continues to rise in Beirut after an Israeli airstrike kills dozens of people, including one of Hezbollah's senior military figures. The latest on the intensifying attacks.

Plus, a series of suspicious packages were sent to election offices in more than 20 states. What the FBI is saying about it, straight ahead.

And we continue to keep our close watch on Wilmington, North Carolina, there, where you see the Trump plane has just arrived for a rally involving the former president. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:20:27]

WHITFIELD: All right, we're continuing to keep close watch on Wilmington, North Carolina. Live pictures right now where the former president its set to take the stage momentarily. His plane has just landed. This will be Trump's first comments since his campaign reiterated that he will not be taking part in another debate with Vice President Kamala Harris offered by CNN. Kamala Harris did agree to the October 23rd, debate, but now we're hearing through Trump's campaign that he will not take CNN up on the offer.

He also has yet to speak out on the political scandal brewing around the Republican candidate for North Carolina governor Mark Robinson. This following CNN's reporting about Robinson making lewd, racist comments posted on a website.

All right, new this hour, Israel says it is launching another wave of attacks against Hezbollah targets in southern Lebanon. And it follows strikes on 180 targets across southern Lebanon earlier today. Earlier, projectiles launched from Lebanon caused fires, but no casualties, when they landed in northern Israel. Also, Lebanese officials say the death toll has risen to 37 after Friday's strike on southern Beirut. Several Hezbollah leaders were killed in the strike, including one commander who was wanted by the U.S.

Joining me right now is retired U.S. Army two-star major general Dana Pittard. Great to see you, General.

MAJ. GEN. DANA PITTARD (RET), RETIRED TWO STAR MAJOR GENERAL U.S. ARMY: Good afternoon, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: So Iran and Hezbollah both warning Israel that it has crossed a line this week. Is this just rhetoric or were lines crossed and there are likely to be some serious repercussions?

PITTARD: There may be serious repercussions, but I don't believe a line has necessarily been crossed. Israel has the right to defend itself. Hezbollah has been firing rockets and missiles into northern Israel ever since October 7th, or the day after October 7th, October 8th, which has caused 70,000 Israeli citizens to evacuate. So Israel had a right to do that.

WHITFIELD: So strategically then, how prepared is Israel for a potential sizable skirmish with Hezbollah, and by extension, Iran?

PITTARD: I think Israel is, in fact, prepared. Now if we were talking back in October, it would have been a different story because of the focus on Gaza. Gaza, they're now able to take some of their units away from Gaza and move them to northern Israel. And of course, the attack, which very innovative, and exploding pagers and walkie-talkies, caused such disarray with a command-and-control structure of Hezbollah, Israel then struck and struck hard with airstrikes.

WHITFIELD: And to flip that question, then, how prepared are Hezbollah and Iran potentially if they were to have a skirmish, a war with Israel? PITTARD: We take both -- Iran is prepared to an extent, but does not want to have a conflict with Israel. They saw what happened with their massive attack on Israel that utterly failed. Hezbollah has the resources, but because their command and control is in disarray, they don't trust any of their communications systems now. It would be very, very difficult for them to launch attacks in a serious way against you from off for a little while.

WHITFIELD: So then what is the significance of the killing of that top Hezbollah commander in those Beirut strikes? And is it likely that someone else just steps in?

PITTARD: I think it's very significant. In fact, there were two commanders. The most senior one was Ibrahim Aqil, who was linked to the 1983 Beirut bombing that killed 241 marines and soldiers in the barracks. And then Ahmed Wahbi, who was also a senior leader of Hezbollah. Of course, there's others that will step in. But they can't replace the experience of those two individuals.

WHITFIELD: Israel says, its beginning of campaign to make Israeli settlements along the Lebanon border safe enough for residents to return. Is that feasible?

[14:25:00]

PITTARD: I think it's feasible to an extent. If they cause enough damage with Hezbollah and cause Hezbollah to move their rockets even farther to the north than the 70,000 Israeli citizens who had to evacuate and possibly return.

WHITFIELD: All right, we'll leave it there for now. General Dana Pittard, great to see you. Thank you so much for your expertise.

PITTARD: Thank you, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, straight ahead, some of America's top CEOs are weighing in on who they think will win the 2024 election. One candidate got an overwhelming majority of support. We'll explain why.

And, again, live pictures right now out of Wilmington, North Carolina where former President Trump is expected to take the stage at any moment now. His plane you see in the background there just landing not a short -- not a -- not a long while ago. We'll bring you all the events live as it happens right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:30:17]

WHITFIELD: All right, some titans of industry are betting Vice President Kamala Harris will be the next president of the United States. The overwhelming majority of business leaders across the country recently polled by a professor at Yale think Harris will defeat Donald Trump this November, even though just one-third of them identified as Democrats. CNN reporter Matt Egan is digging through the numbers. MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Fredricka, these CEOs are very bullish on Kamala Harris, and it's not even close. This is from a straw poll of business leaders who were convened by Yale Professor Jeff Sonnenfeld and found that 80 percent of these business leaders think Harris will defeat former President Trump in this upcoming election.

Now, to be clear, I'm not saying that 80 percent of these CEOs want Harris to win, just that they expect that she will. And it's worth pointing out that this is not necessarily representative of all CEOs. But it is representative of the 60 or so power players in business who are convened once a quarter and polled anonymously by Sonnenfeld, who is known as the CEO whisperer.

Now, as far as why they expect Harris to win, what element here could be relating to what they think these two candidates mean for democracy, because they found that the vast majority, 73 percent of these CEOs in this straw poll, they say that Trump represents a threat to democracy. Only four percent said that of Harris, again, not even close. Sonnenfeld told me that these CEOs are, quote, horrified by Trump's leadership model. And he went on to say they depend upon the rule of law and want a president who respects the law.

Now I asked the Trump campaign to respond to these findings, and the campaign's national press secretary said to me, does anyone think a straw poll of business leaders from Yale represents the views of the country? And I think the clear answer there is no, but that's not the point. The point is that despite these polls that show the race remains very, very close, an overwhelming majority of these captains of industry, they expect it's going to be Harris in the Oval Office next year, not Trump.

Another important finding from this straw poll is how these CEOs are feeling about the economy, because it's obviously a very confusing time. We've seen cracks in the job market. The Federal Reserve has cut but interest rates very sharply, the first rate cut since COVID. And yet the overwhelming majority of CEOs in this Yale straw poll, 84 percent, say that the economy is headed towards a soft landing. That's what we're hoping for. That would be taming inflation without causing unemployment to spike.

Now it's true that these CEOs, they don't have a crystal ball, or if they do, they haven't shared that with us. But this is important for two reasons. One, it shows a reversal from two years ago when many CEOs feared a recession was a forgone conclusion. They no longer feel that way.

The other, perhaps more important reason why we pay attention to this is because it does signal underlying confidence from CEOs. And the more confident they are, the more likely they are to invest, to open new factories and new plants, and to hire more workers. And ultimately in the long run, that confidence and those investments can keep this economy chugging along. Fredricka?

WHITFIELD: All right, Matt Egan, thank you so much.

All right, coming up, investigators in Kentucky are searching for a motive after a judge is shot and killed inside his own chambers. And it was a sheriff who allegedly pulled the trigger. New details straight ahead.

And live pictures right now of Wilmington, North Carolina. There you see him, the former President Donald Trump, they're arriving at his rally there after his plane just landed. He just got out of his limo. Now you see him clapping and excited about the crowd that turned out for him. This will be Trump's first comments since his campaign reiterated that he will not be taking part in a debate scheduled for October 23rd, an invitation extended by CNN. Kamala Harris has accepted. So far, Trump's campaigns says he is not accepting the invitation.

We'll be right back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:39:28]

WHITFIELD: All right, to Wilmington, North Carolina, now, where former President Donald Trump is speaking. Let's listen in.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: -- and we've got to take care of that people, but they're destroying our cities. And instead of a planet on the edge of global war, we will have world peace. We won't have World War III, which we're very close, we're very close having right now. That's the future that awaits the American that we love under President Donald J. Trump. But if you cast your vote for Kamala Harris, comrade, comrade --

(BOOS)

[14:40:03]

TRUMP: We call her comrade -- you're voting for four more years of brutal job losses, higher taxes, surging prices, falling wages, and economic depression and despair. Other than that, you'll be doing quite well, I think, actually.

A vote for Kamala Harris means 40 or 50 million more illegal aliens will invade across our borders, stealing your money, stealing your job, stealing your life. It means your police forces will be gutted, your guns will be confiscated, and savage criminals will run wild in the streets. So that's what it means. You know that's what it means.

You know, she's always said, we will confiscate all guns. Now she is saying, oh, no, guns, I think they're wonderful, right? Doesn't work that way. They're going to confiscate your guns. I'm the one that's protecting it. You know, we got the total endorsement of every gun group including the NRA.

(CHEERS)

TRUMP: And we have protected your Second Amendment. And if you think it was easy, it was not easy. If Kamala Harris is reelected, she will kill the American dream forever. She's not competent to be president either, but I don't want to be rude. I don't want to be rude. She's not competent to be president.

Did you see her on Oprah? Thats not going to be -- that's not going to be president. Oprah didn't know what the hell to do. Oprah was like embarrassed. She went to hide under the table. But she's a professional and she was able to sort of disguise it. No, she wanted to go right under the table.

Vote Trump, and we will bring back the American dream bigger, better, and stronger than ever before.

(CHEERS)

TRUMP: Kamala can't be trusted with your economy or anything else. She's just -- I mean, how this happened, explained it to me, please. How did this happen? We all saw what happened and we see what happened. Kamala was a total disaster yesterday, at every other interview she has been, just a freefall. I don't know what the hell is going on. She can't do an interview. She doesn't want to do them. Something's wrong.

Let's just take a look. Let me just say, we have a little video. You know, we spent all the money on the screens. We want to use them a little bit. Let's play it just for a second. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Kamala word of the day is clearly "story."

KAMALA HARRIS, (D) VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is your story and the story.

WHITFIELD: All right, you're listening to former President Donald Trump there at his rally in Wilmington, North Carolina, incorrectly saying that Kamala Harris is proposing to confiscate all guns. She never said that, but she did say this week in revealed that she is a gun owner herself and that she is an advocate of stricter gun policies in this country.

I want to bring in now -- we're going to continue to monitor the comments coming from the former president there. But meantime, let's bring in CNN political analyst Julian Zelizer. Julian, glad you could be with me here. All right, so we're monitoring the comments coming from the former president. We understand through his campaign that he is not taking up CNN on its invitation for a second debate against Kamala Harris. She today, through her campaign, did agree to a second debate. It would have been October 23rd. The day is still young. Perhaps the former president would change his mind. In your view, how unusual would it be that we've only seen one debate potentially from the presidential candidates with now just 45 days to go before Election Day?

JULIAN ZELIZER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, unusual, not unprecedented. Before 1976, we only had one election with a debate. That was Nixon against Kennedy and 1960. And in 1980, I believe there was only one debate between Carter and Reagan.

That said, every other campaigns in 76 there has been multiple debates, which candidates often want, because you can compensate for a bad performance. But look, in this campaign where the schedules off, where the rules seem to be a little different --

WHITFIELD: Hold on, Julian, because of the former president, Trump, is talking about the debate invitation. Let's listen in.

TRUMP: -- for all of the fairness, they were very fair. In other words, they won't be fair again, because they took a lot of abuse from the radical left. ABC was three on one, but I was given credit for having done a very, very good job. I appreciate that. We did a great job. It was three on one.

(CHEERING)

TRUMP: The problem with another debate is that it's just too late. Voting has already started. She's had her chance to do it with FOX. FOX invited us on, and I waited and waited. And they turned it down. They turned it down.

[14:45:01]

But now she wants to do a debate right before the election with CNN because she's losing badly. It's like a fighter. She sees the polls, she sees what's happening, she's losing badly. But it's like a fighter who goes into the ring and gets knocked out. The first thing he says is I want a rematch. I want a rematch.

Andi I won all of the primaries. Remember she won none. She went into no primary. She got no votes. Biden, in all fairness -- I'm no fan, but in all fairness to him, he got 14 million votes. She got none. She's done one debate. I've done two. It's too late to do another. I'd love to in many ways, but it's too late. The voting is cast. The voters are out there immediately. Is everybody voting? Please get out and vote.

(CHEERING)

TRUMP: I would rather see one day voting paper ballots, voter I.D., and proof of citizenship. And we have a nice, honest election.

We have one state -- for two-and-a-half months, and then they have the right to delay the count for weeks and weeks. The whole thing is crazy. We're going to get it changed. We got to get in. When we get in, we're going to get this craziness change.

Everyone knows that Kamala Harris cannot explain how she would make your life better because it's really her policies that have destroyed this country in the last three years. She was the border czar. Now she says she wasn't the border czar. It doesn't matter. She was in charge of the border, put there by sleepy Joe Biden. He wanted to go to the beach. She said, I don't have time. I've got to go to the beach and sleep. Who the hell sleeps on camera? You have cameras watching. I don't want to ever fall asleep on live television.

Kamala Harris costs your family $28,000 in higher prices. Last month alone she lost -- figure this, last month, they lost in this country, , 438,000 full-time jobs -- WHITFIELD: Donald Trump there -- all right, we're listening to former

President Donald Trump there. He is now responding in full with the invitation from CNN for a second debate with Kamala Harris, October 23rd. He there just justified, saying -- he says it's too late. The voting has already started, and he's alleging that the CNN debate won't be fair after it was fair, in his view, when it was with Biden. But again, 45 days out from Election Day, and it would be October 23rd would be the debate that CNN has extended to both Trump and Kamala Harris, and Trump there saying it's too late for another debate.

Back with me now, Julian Zelizer. I also want to bring into the fold here, former Republican congressman Charlie Dent of Pennsylvania. All right, good to see you both again. All right, so Julian, let's finish up your thought. Now we hear from the former president says it's just simply too late and voting has already started. So in other words, he's saying, why bother.

ZELIZER: Well, it's not true. There's plenty of time to have a debate. We've seen how much you can pack into a month, and I still think it would be valuable. Many, many people, most people will still vote on Election Day. And I think it would be beneficial.

And I don't think this is because she's losing in the polls. She's not. This is a close race. She's very competitive if not ahead in states like Pennsylvania. Very few polls suggest she lost the last debate. So the real question, if you put all that aside, is why doesn't he want to have a second engagement? It would benefit all of the voters, I think, to have one more opportunity to see the candidates side-by-side.

WHITFIELD: All right, and also with us is our correspondent, as Steve Contorno, who was there in Wilmington. And so Steve, if you can hear me. While we heard some of what Donald Trump had to say, you probably heard more. What can you tell me?

Hi, Steve contorno, if you can hear me, this is Fredricka in the studio. All right, we heard a little bit from Donald Trump there, saying, you know, essentially why bother having another debate. It's just too late in the process, he says. What more did he say?

STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: That's right, Fred. He really came out onto the debate -- or on those stage over there and addressed the question right away, which was not necessarily expected. But he said without any uncertainty that he does not intend to participate in another debate. He said she's losing badly and that's why she wants to have another debate. He said it's too late to do another. He said he would like to, but people are already voting. So it doesn't make sense to do one now. That echoes what we had heard earlier in the day from his campaign who pointed us to his statements that he released shortly after that one-on-one debate with Harris where he said, quote, there will not be a third debate. And he is standing by that.

[14:50:00]

Now we are 45 days away until Trump came and Harris, this election will decide who will be the next president. And it seems like at this point, there will only be one debate between these two individuals.

WHITFIELD: OK, Steve, thanks so much. Former congressman Charlie Dent back with us now. All right, so Charlie, what's your viewpoint here? Is it unnecessary? Or would it be instructive for the former president to debate again?

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think the former president would be crazy to debate again. I mean, he's not a particularly good debater. He did terribly in the last debate. The only way he benefited from Joe Biden's implosion in the first debate, but he's not a good debater. And he is so easily triggered and trolled by Kamala Harris. He doesn't really discuss policy well, and he has a problem with facts and truth.

So I'm sure his campaign doesn't want him to do another debate because I suspect they know it will go very badly. It's as simple as that. I just can't imagine a reason why he should go up there. It's just -- he'll just have another drubbing.

WHITFIELD: Well, you heard the former presidents spinning it there, saying she's the one who performed so badly, and this is like a rematch and that's what a fighter would do. But he needs to grow support. So we know his supporters are with him. Would it not be an opportunity to get more support?

DENT: Well, sure. I guess, well, it's an opportunity. But the question is, what will he do? Will he continue to be triggered? Will he be distracted? Will he talk about people in Ohio eating cats and dogs? Will he not be able to answer questions whether or not he's supports Ukraine in the war against Russia? I mean, I just don't know that he's capable of giving answers that would actually help them grow his support. He's done nothing up to this point to really expand upon his base. He doubles down on his base all the time. He needs to grow it. So this opportunity, I think he would blow it if he took you up on it.

WHITFIELD: Got you. And Julian, we know the former president, he likes to come across as looking strong. Saying no to a debate, does that make him look strong?

ZELIZER: Well no. I mean, he will spin it the way he's spinning it to act as if he's defending himself. He's under attack, which is his traditional rhetoric. But it does make him look for many voters, I'm sure, scared. I think many people will see it the way the congressman just described it. And this does undermine some of that image, although again, for his supporters, his image endures. And we see those polls don't change much.

So it's what do the small pockets of undecideds think. And I don't think this benefits, but I don't think there's much he can do. I think he knows enough to know the odds are this it could go very poorly for him. And he knows, I think, despite the rhetoric, that that last debate was not a good TV performance, which is something he does measure.

WHITFIELD: All right, Julian Zelizer, Charlie Dent, we'll leave it there.

Steve Contorno, we know you're still out there. Thanks to you as well. Appreciate it.

All right, we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:57:53]

WHITFIELD: All right, despite objections from both sides of the aisle, Trump allies on Georgia's election board have approved a controversial new rule that calls for some ballots to be hand-counted on election night. But critics warn the rule could inject chaos into a state likely to play a key role in deciding the next president.

CNN's Marshall Cohen is live for us in Washington with the very latest. Tell us more about this rule and how it got approved.

MARSHALL COHEN, CNN REPORTER: Hey, Fred, big controversy yesterday in Georgia with the Trump allies on the Georgia state election board ramming through this new rule, really, on the eve of the election here as ballots are going out today to overseas voters and military voters in that state.

Look, this is controversial. It was done over the objections of many Republicans. This is the rule that they approved. They are requiring hand-counted ballots. Counties must hand-count the number of ballots cast at a polling place to make sure that it matches the number of ballots that the machine counted. It's a reconciliation of the numbers. I want to be clear. They are not hand-counting the results of which candidates got the most votes.

But nonetheless, it is expected to slow things down, Fred. As you can imagine, when you're hand-counting hundreds of thousands of ballots, it takes time. And that's exactly why folks like Brad Raffensperger, the Republican secretary of state in Georgia, and even the Georgia attorney general, who is also a Republican, that's why they opposed this move. They said it was just too late to do it. But regardless, the Trump loyalists on that board voted three to two.

I've got a clip for you that I will play, Fred, of the chairman of that board. He's not one of the Republican loyalists. He's an independent. He voted against it, and he pleaded with his colleagues to stand down. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN FERVIER, (I) CHAIRMAN, GEORGIA STATE ELECTION BOARD: The overwhelming number of election officials that have reached out to me have been opposed to this.

Several things concern me about this. Number one, I do think it's too close to the election. I do.

We have received guidance from the secretary of state and from the attorney general's office. They say it's not supported in statute.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: Well, he tried his best, but they overruled him, and they voted three to two. So unless there's some judge that gets in the way --