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Trump Campaigns In North Carolina As His Pick For Governor Faces Controversy; Harris Trump In Tight Race With No Clear Leader In North Carolina; Israeli Forces Strike Dozens Of Hezbollah Targets; Georgia Election Board Passes Controversial New Rule; Trump Makes No Mention Of Mark Robinson During NC Rally; Sean 'Diddy' Combs: From Mansion To Misery; No Motive Known Yet In Fatal Shooting Of A Kentucky Judge. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired September 21, 2024 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:01:14]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. And I'm Jessica Dean in New York. And we begin this hour with Vice President Kamala Harris today agreeing to a second debate with former president Donald Trump right here on CNN on October 23rd. Of course, that's just days before the election.

Harris now challenging her rival to another face-to-face showdown. But is Trump up for it? We're going to talk more about that in just a moment. Trump held a rally in the key battleground state of North Carolina today as the Republican candidate for governor in North Carolina faces a major scandal. This week a CNN investigation uncovered racist and deeply inflammatory comments made by Mark Robinson on a porn Web site years ago.

The Trump campaign has yet to comment on this despite some Republicans in North Carolina calling on Robinson to drop out of the race with just 45 days to go until election day.

CNN's Steve Contorno has more on how Trump is handling this from the site of that rally in Wilmington, North Carolina.

STEVE CONTORNO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Donald Trump arrived in North Carolina on Saturday with the state GOP and crisis over its nominee for governor, Mark Robinson. He's this lieutenant governor here, and he has regularly joined Donald Trump at his campaign events. However, we were told he was not invited to this one. He did not appear, and Trump never mentioned Mark Robinson at all during his remarks.

However, he did mention the debate that CNN has invited him to, and he said he will not be participating. Take a listen to why he said he doesn't feel there's a need to debate anymore in this race.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Although good entertainment value, a lot of people said, do it, it's great entertainment. I've already done two. The problem with another debate is that it's just too late. Voting has already started. She's had her chance to do it with FOX. You know, FOX invited us on and I waited and waited. And they turned it down. They turned it down. But now she wants to do a debate right before the election with CNN because she's losing badly. It's too late to do another. I'd love to in many ways, but it's too late.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CONTORNO: Trump came into today's rally with the women's vote clearly on his mind. Overnight, he posted a lengthy message to Truth Social, where he said women are poor, less healthy, less safe, more depressed, and less optimistic than they were four years ago. He also said that they will, quote, "no longer be thinking about abortion because it is now where it always had to be with the states."

Vice President Harris, of course, has made abortion central to her campaign. And the fight over the women's vote is clearly taking shape in North Carolina, a state that Trump just narrowly won four years ago. Take a look at this most recent poll from Quinnipiac. It shows Trump trailing Harris with women voters by 60 percent to 37 percent. That's a much larger margin than four years ago in the Tar Heel State when he was up against Joe Biden. So clearly he has some ground to make up there -- Jessica.

DEAN: All right. Steve Contorno, thank you very much.

Joining me now, the chair of the North Carolina Democratic Party, Anderson Clayton.

Anderson, thanks so much for being here with us tonight.

ANDERSON CLAYTON, CHAIR OF THE NORTH CAROLINA DEMOCRATIC PARTY: Thank you for having us, Jessica.

DEAN: Yes. So we have now seen the Harris campaign releasing this ad tying Trump to Mark Robinson, but when you look at polling, Robinson was already lagging behind his Democratic challenger and it is still an incredibly tight race when it comes to that presidential race there in North Carolina.

Do you think that's actually going to have an effect to benefit the Harris campaign there?

CLAYTON: Absolutely. We know that Donald Trump has fully embraced Mark Robinson's agenda of wanting to see a total ban in the state of North Carolina. And one is just as dangerous as the other. And folks down the ballot this year are going to see that every single Republican that's been endorsed by Donald Trump and by Mark Robinson is only going to be rubber stamps for their administration if they were to be elected.

[19:05:01]

And we know across the ballot this year in North Carolina that folks are getting out to stand up for reproductive freedom and making sure that we're getting Democrats elected everywhere.

DEAN: And so Trump has won North Carolina in the last two times that he has run. What makes you think it would be any different this time?

CLAYTON: Because of the fact that we're running a stronger ground game than we ever have in the state. You know, Joe Biden lost this state in 2020 by 74,000 votes, bringing down the margin that Hillary Clinton lost it by in 2016, right. The 3 percent margin that she lost it by.

So we're seeing the margin gap closing and we're also seeing the North Carolina Democratic Party in collaboration with the coordinated campaign this year fighting harder for votes across the state of North Carolina including on our college campuses, where we're seeing a heavy investment of making sure that young people know that they need to get to the ballot box this year and fight for their rights on their campuses, too.

DEAN: And so in your opinion, as the chair of the Democratic Party, and obviously you are talking with people across the state, you're trying to keep that coordinated campaign together up and down the ballot, what is going to be the difference maker here? Is it the organization as you're saying? Do you think that could be enough?

CLAYTON: It's all of the above, right. I mean, you've got to make sure that field margin, like the 1 percent to 2 percent that you're losing the elections by in North Carolina, they are field margins. And so we know that every door we knock, every phone call we make, you know, look, it's scary sometimes to get out and knock doors and talk to your neighbors about politics, because politics can sometimes be uncomfortable.

But what's scarier to me in this election cycle as Democrats across the state of North Carolina is looking at a Mark Robinson governorship, another potential Donald Trump presidency, when we have the opportunity to elect phenomenal candidates up and down the ballot this year, people like Josh Stein, running for governor in North Carolina, like Senator Rachel Hunt running for lieutenant governor in North Carolina, who are going to defeat, right, that extremism that we've seen up and down the ballot.

It's amazing state legislative candidates, like we're out here today in Onslow County with Chris Schulte, who's running for our statehouse seat out here right now. People that are being champions of democracy everywhere. And we're fighting for every single vote. The coordinated campaign in 2020 in our state came in on August and we've been here a lot longer than that, especially with the state party level reaching out to voters everywhere. So we expect this state to see a turn in November.

DEAN: I'm also curious, as you're knocking on doors, as you're talking to voters, even people who were going to vote Democratic when Joe Biden was still the nominee, but have you seen an enthusiasm shift?

CLAYTON: Absolutely. You can see it from folks that are, you know, Iredell County, I was just there last weekend with their county chair, Beth Kindell, and they had over 2,000 doors knocked at Iredell County in that weekend alone. And we're seeing surges of volunteers out everywhere across the state, even in the reddest of areas. And that's going to mean something when you think about 74,000 vote margin that we lost the state by in 2020.

It's 42 votes per every precinct in every county in the state. Mecklenburg County, Cabarrus County have two amazing young county party chairs that are adamantly at work right now trying to make sure that we are turning out the votes in those counties, too, because we know that those areas are ones that we did not have the turnout that we needed to in the last two election cycles and also. So we're working hard in every corner of the state from rural to urban, to suburban to ex-urban because we know that every single vote matters in North Carolina this year to bring it home for Democrats.

DEAN: Well, and we have seen the Harris campaign, we saw, we've seen both Vice President Harris and also Governor Walz going in to more rural parts of some states that Trump won or is leading in, where they are just trying to keep the margins down in those areas. And it sounds like that is something you all are also focused on there in North Carolina.

CLAYTON: North Carolina is the most rural of the battleground states. Majority of our population still lives in rural and ex-urban communities. And we need to make sure that we are reaching out to them, which is why the state party has been showing up across them for the last year.

And also why we're looking at so many -- prioritizing so many races, especially in the northeastern part of the state, like Don Davis' race, Donte Pitman's race, Lorenzo Wilkins' race, because we know that those are where are Democrats and our vote totals matter this year to bring back our state, and make us a place that is providing for families again across North Carolina.

We know that Democrats are standing up for the issues like public schools in our state, like economic opportunities across North Carolina. And that's what folks want to focus on this year at the ballot box, not the extremism that Republicans are offering.

DEAN: And we see those numbers dividing between male voters and female voters, Harris clearly has a major edge with female voters. But what can she do to get her numbers up with men who she's losing to Trump 38 percent to Trump's 56 percent there in North Carolina?

CLAYTON: Making sure that we're talking to people about the plans that she has for their future. A lot of young people this year, especially young men this year that we talked to across college campuses, they have got the same issues that every other voter has. They want to make sure that they're able to have a job when they graduate and that they don't have the leave North Carolina in order to be able to get that job.

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And we are seeing an economic opportunity from the Biden-Harris administration that's invested in rural communities and urban communities across our state this last year to provide that opportunity for young people to stay in North Carolina and make their -- make a living for themselves when they didn't have that opportunity beforehand. And so we want to make sure that we're prioritizing the future of people across this state and providing to them that opportunity. And I know that Vice President Harris is going to continue to that across the campaign trail.

DEAN: All right. Anderson Clayton, thanks so much for your time.

CLAYTON: Thank you.

DEAN: Americans in Lebanon are being urged to leave while there are still commercial flights available. This as the conflict between Israel and Hezbollah goes on.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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DEAN: The U.S. is officially urging Americans to leave Lebanon while commercial flights are still available as Israel's fight against Hezbollah continues to intensify. This week, we've seen a string of major operations targeting the Iran-backed terror group that's based in Lebanon. And today, Israel says it is, quote, "extensively striking Hezbollah" after uncovering plans for coming attack.

CNN's Ben Wedeman has more now from Beirut.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Jessica, what we've seen today are some of the most intense Israeli airstrikes, not just on southern Lebanon, but also on the eastern part of the country according to the Lebanese National News Agency within the span of just one hour. Between 1:30 and 2:30 in the afternoon, local time, according to the agency, there were 111 Israeli airstrikes.

And what we're seeing in the evening as well, more intense Israeli airstrikes. Hezbollah for its part, says it's fired or rather it launched 11 attacks on Israeli targets. But in general, it does seem that escalation is the order of the day.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WEDEMAN (voice-over): Where Friday noon was a nine-story residential building in southern Beirut, now just a jagged jumbled on creek rubble and twisted steel bars. Israeli warplanes struck late in the afternoon targeting successfully a meeting of Hezbollah commanders. Yet among the almost 40 dead, there were women and children.

It was the third major Israeli attack in four days.

Full military honors at the funeral for three of the Hezbollah fighters killed Friday in Beirut. Since Tuesday, the Iranian backed group has suffered its highest casualties since the 2006 war. Yet at least here among the faithful there are no signs of wavering. They're committed to their leader despite the body blows Israel dealt Hezbollah in recent days. It has been tough and painful, says Almahudin (PH), but we have

patience and endurance and God-willing with Hezbollah and Nasrallah, victory is at hand.

Hussein (PH) tells me, in this war, you can't win every day. Let Israel wait and see what our response will be. We are strong in our faith.

There are more funerals to come for fighters and civilians from Friday's strike. These are Hezbollah's darkest days.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WEDEMAN (on-camera): And this evening, the U.S. embassy here in Lebanon put out I think its sternest warning yet to Americans not to come to Lebanon and those who are in Lebanon to leave as soon as possible. One line in the alert says, do not travel to Lebanon due to crime, terrorism, civil unrest, kidnapping, unexploded landmines, and the risk of armed conflict. And certainly at the moment, that risk is very high -- Jessica.

DEAN: Ben Wedeman, thank you very much.

Changing how votes are counted just weeks before the votes are counted. That's what's happening in Georgia. We'll tell you more.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:23:32]

DEAN: Well, just over six weeks until election day, the state elections board in Georgia is changing how it will count ballots. This controversial new rule requires counties to hand count the number of ballots cast at a polling place on election day. That three to two vote came Friday. Three Trump allies supporting the move with the one Democrat and one independent opposed. Some of Georgia's top-ranking Republicans warned the board is making these changes too close to the election.

I spoke with the only Democratic board member on that board, Sara Tindall Ghazal, to ask her about her concerns.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARA TINDALL GHAZAL (D), GEORGIA STATE ELECTION BOARD MEMBER: It is entirely too close to elections. There are boards across -- county election boards across the state have been passing resolutions unanimously, bipartisan boards saying, please stop making new rules. There needs to be a quiet period. Voting is already happening. The ballots for our military and overseas voters are already out there.

So it's mind-boggling to me that these folks think it's appropriate to change the rules when voting is already happening. DEAN: And Georgia has a number, obviously, of counties, as you

mentioned, that are going to have to hand count these ballots. What kind of impact could that have on election night?

GHAZAL: So we have 159 counties from 5,000 to 6,000 voters up to nearly a million in the metro area, and not only do they have to hand count them, but they have to hand count them three times.

[19:25:07]

And those counts have to match exactly even though every ballot has already been -- not just tabulated, but also counted by electronic scanners. The counties that have actually tested this already they have run like a beta test for this say that it's taking them an hour, hour and a half, two hours. and that's using workers that have not already had a 14-hour day. So it is going to delay getting those results back to the county headquarters sometimes by many hours.

And that means that the counties that are legally required by statute to have those vote totals uploaded by midnight are really facing an incredibly challenging deadline.

DEAN: And obviously, three people on this panel believed it's necessary to require hand counting and they're going to require that counties make sure the number of ballots, of course, as you just mentioned, match the tally on the voting machines.

Where is the harm in making sure everything matches? What do you say to people who say, why can't we just make sure everything matches?

GHAZAL: Why didn't we look at this rule six months ago? If this rule was so important, if this task was so important, why didn't we undertake the rulemaking early enough that the counties could have trained and provided for this. Now their poll workers are already trained. The poll workers are already hired. So they didn't expect to have to do this.

Are we going to -- are they going to have to retrain? Are they going to have to reset the way the precinct is set up to make sure that they have -- the table set up in a way that the count can be conducted safely, and they can keep those ballots secure? If this was so important to election integrity, why didn't we do this last year? Why didn't we do it in January and February. in June even?

But we are in September, the end of the line. It is way too late in the day to be making these kinds of changes, and expect the counties to be able to undertake this in a way that is reasonable, rational, safe, and keeps the ballots secure.

DEAN: And Georgia's Republican secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger, has already called this board and this situation a mess, that's his word. A mess. And as I'm hearing you talk about this and you think about this, you think about hand-counting, you think about the potential for human error, as you mentioned, after someone has worked hours and hours at a polling site, do you worry that this could inject some sort of questioning into the results that are totally secure because now there is a risk for human error that it could be causing problems where there weren't any before?

GHAZAL: That is exactly what every single election director, election supervisors from across the state, they all warned of that. We've had -- the former secretary of state of Alabama made the same sorts of warnings to us, saying, you don't change the rules, you don't change procedures because you are risking injecting confusion. You're risking injecting misinformation about what might happen. And it's just a deep concern to me and I just can't -- I can't fathom why anybody thinks it's a good idea to change these rules this late in the game.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: And our thanks to Sara Tindall Ghazal for speaking with us earlier.

Joining me now is former Republican congressman from Illinois and CNN senior political commentator Adam Kinzinger.

Thanks so much for being here with us. Good to see you.

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You too.

DEAN: I want to start first with what we were just discussing there. The Georgia election rule change. Where do you come down on this? Do you think it's a good idea to change these election rules this close to the election?

KINZINGER: No. It's a dumb idea and it's only for one reason, because this is continuing to inject doubt into our election system. That's what Donald Trump has been doing since day one, since he came down the golden escalator, frankly, but then particularly when we think of January 6th, because even if nothing -- no chaos comes out of this, it's sending a message that there's a mistrust in the system and so we have to hand count the number of ballots three times, and then you can imagine a situation where, you know, three times, humans counting ballots, you have one-off at one point and then you have to recount. How does that all work?

And you can see results being delayed and then Donald Trump comes out and once again injects doubt.

[19:30:03]

This is all -- all of these measures for the most part are all kind of building into this MAGA narrative that the elections are corrupt.

What's more egregious, frankly, is what they're doing in Nebraska and trying to switch the electoral count votes. The split at the last minute to try to win an extra electoral count vote. But yes, all this is about injecting doubt in the system.

DEAN: And I do want to talk a little bit about North Carolina as well. That's where the former president was campaigning today. He had his rally there.

He didn't once mention the states gubernatorial candidate, Mark Robinson. Of course, we have all of our CNN reporting over that whole controversy, do you think that, that could have an impact on the presidential race there in North Carolina where it's still just polling so tight?

KINZINGER: Yes and I think the reason is because it's polling so tight. So it's, you know, keep in mind Donald Trump has called the candidate, Mr. Robinson, he called him Martin Luther King on Steroids. Martin Luther King times two.

The candidate himself, Mark Robinson, actually called Martin Luther King, Martin Luther - racial term and, you know, all this stuff that's come out.

So, obviously, you know, Robinson's going to lose, that's not a question of -- basically, wasn't a question even before all this broke. But anytime particularly in a tight race like you're seeing in North Carolina where it could come down to one point, anytime you dampen enthusiasm and that may be even if it's 99 out of a hundred people, like I'm still with Mark Robinson and I'm excited.

If there's even one person out of the hundred that says -- that feels a little bothered by this, where their enthusiasm is damping and they maybe don't vote or maybe they do switch over to Kamala because they're just sick of it, that can make the difference.

So if this was a five or ten-point race in North Carolina, I'd be saying, look, this is bad, obviously from Mark Robinson but it's probably not going to affect Donald Trump. The fact that it's so close anything like this can make a difference when you have a race that's just this tight.

I just have got to say like, there have been so many scandals in the last few weeks, they're all Republicans and this is what happens when you have primaries where people are running to be the cruelest they can be, when they're running to be the most extreme and when the only cost of entry into winning a Republican primary is to be most enthusiastic about Donald Trump and nothing else matters. You end up with candidates like this.

DEAN: I do want to ask you because look, I talked to people who consider themselves Republicans, don't feel like they have a place in that party today and they look at and I know you count yourself among those people.

But they look at candidates like Mark Robinson and they go how does this happen? And you think about Mitch McConnell, who's also talked about quality of candidate matters, especially in those Senate races. Why do you think it is, and I know you just alluded to it, and it sounds like it comes down to who can be the most MAGA, the most Trump. But why do you think that the Republicans keep nominating people like this who continue to lose?

KINZINGER: So, yes, it's whoever runs is the most MAGA, the most extreme. I mean, you even look at the discussion about abortion, not during the general election, but look at it during the primaries and you have people that are competing to ban abortion earlier in the states.

I'm a three-week guy. I'm a two-week, you know, so you see that and it's like that extreme as what wins a primary. But why is that the case now? And the answer you sort of alluded to, when you mentioned Mitch McConnell because let's call them the tier two leaders, the leaders of the GOP that aren't Donald Trump, that people still look up to for guidance and some inspiration or influence.

And all of these leaders have basically said, yes, whatever Donald Trump wants, the only thing that matters is loyalty to Donald Trump. Then, yes, people are going to look and say, well then that's who we're going for because the people that we trust to come and tell us how to lead this party into a better future, they're going along with the crazy.

So this is a failure, Jessica, of leadership. If you run for Congress or you run for the Senate, and you get elected you have a responsibility to the Constitution and also to your party to try to lead your party into a better future and all you've seen over the last eight years is a pairing out of those people and the only thing you have to show is an allegiance to Donald Trump.

I'll ask you this, I've become a little more moderate in my old age and that's just part of time, but I'm still basically the same person I was when I was elected. Why is it that I don't have a home in the Republican Party? Did I change? No, the only thing I'm not doing is swearing allegiance to Donald Trump because it's become a cult and that's just the reality of it.

DEAN: I do want to ask you also before I let you go about President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, the Ukrainian President's visit to America. He's expected on Sunday, we're learning to visit an ammunitions factory in Pennsylvania that produces critical munitions for his country's fight against Russia.

[19:35:16]

He's also supposed to meet with President Biden and once again request the use of these long-range missiles to go deeper into Russia. Do you think that the US should grant that request and do you think they are going to?

KINZINGER: Well, they absolutely should, you know, one of the things, I guess the only thing I'm hoping for and why it's been delayed as this is part of trying to force Putin to the table but they absolutely need to authorize this.

Look, this is just the law of armed conflict. You study the law of armed conflict. If somebody is attacking you with resources in their country, you have every right to strike that target whether it's two miles from the border, 500 miles from the border, or 1,500 miles from the border. By legal right, you can defend yourself and the United States has got to give Ukraine the ability to do that.

Look, Vladimir Putin has put down a red line for everything. If we give them Abrams, it's going to mean World War III. If we give them ATACMS, it is going to mean World War III. Just name it, it's always supposed to mean World War III, it never does because the one person that doesn't want to start World War III, besides all of us, is Vladimir Putin because he would lose in a heartbeat.

So, there's no red line, give Ukraine the right to defend themselves. And lastly, look, a defending country to win, all you have to do is keep defending. Thats how you win. And Russia has lost 600,000 troops. They've paid a very heavy price for almost no gain.

DEAN: All right, Adam Kinzinger. Thank you so much, good to see you.

KINZINGER: You bet, great to see you.

DEAN: What life is like behind bars for hip-hop star Sean 'Diddy' Combs as he awaits the trial, his trial on charges of federal racketeering, conspiracy, and sex trafficking.

Our next guest will explain, you're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:41:43]

DEAN: And we are monitoring breaking news out of the Middle East tonight, Hezbollah saying it has launched, "tens of rockets at a base and airport in Northern Israel" and that is the first notable retaliation we've seen to a large wave of strikes from Israel, Saturday.

Israel saying, of those fired so far, all were intercepted. But one and no one has been seriously hurt. We'll of course, continue to monitor that.

This week, 54-year-old music mogul Sean 'Diddy' Combs went from a mansion to living behind bars after a federal judge said he must remain behind bars without bail on racketeering and sex trafficking charges. And with no trial date yet set, Combs is spending his days and nights inside New York City's notorious federal detention facility known as MDC Brooklyn.

Former Trump lawyer, Michael Cohen, served time there as well. He describes Diddy's new reality as, "waking up on a steel bed with a one-and-a-half inch mattress, no pillow, and an eight by ten foot so that I can assure you is disgusting".

Joining us now with more, retired federal warden Cameron Lindsay, who was once the warden at MDC Brooklyn. Warden Lindsay -- Combs -- welcome -- thank you, first of all, he is being held in the special housing unit we know due to his celebrity status, walk us through what that means and if you think he would be a target for other inmates.

CAMERON LINDSAY, RETIRED WARDEN, FEDERAL BUREAU OF PRISONS: Well, thanks for having me on. First of all, if it is in fact true that he's being held in the special housing unit, that would indicate to me that it is for his protection, not only because of his enormous celebrity status but the fact remains that the charges that have been levied against him entail violence against women. So, that makes him a very attractive target for assault.

Being in the special housing unit is much like being in the jail within the jail, It's a 24-hour lockdown unit. Everything is very controlled and coordinated in terms of inmate movement. No inmate outside of their cell moves without being in full restraints, which entails handcuffs, leg irons, belly chain and staff escort.

So, he will be locked down in, if he is in fact in the special housing unit, he would be locked down for 23 hours a day with one hour of recreation afforded to him that I would expect to be taken in isolation.

He would be afforded three showers per week. And of course, he'll be afforded visits both social and legal.

DEAN: So, my question is, is he allowed visitors? So, you answered that. Does he have access to any sort of phone, internet, anything like that?

LINDSAY: He would be able to make phone calls once he has an approved phone list, he would be permitted to make social calls if your prison approves that I would expect them to do so but not necessarily. He certainly would have access to legal calls, and of course, legal visits as well.

DEAN: And it sounds like if I'm understanding you correctly, that it's one thing to be a celebrity that perhaps you could be more targeted that way, but really, that it's because of the charges he's facing saying that he might be more targeted because of those charges.

LINDSAY: Oh, absolutely. I think those in prisons and jails had become targets like that, typically are abusive of women, children or they are informants, snitches.

[19:45:11]

So, I certainly would expect him to stay in special housing unit. I think it would be extremely foolish for him to be placed in the general population because the charges that have been levied against him are very, very serious, very disturbing. And do entail multiple acts of violence against women.

DEAN: Yes, all right, Warden Cameron Lindsay, thanks so much for that perspective. We appreciate it.

LINDSAY: Thank you, Jessica.

DEAN: A Kentucky district judge and a local sheriff went to a lunch together. That's according to a clerk. So, what could have happened to make that sheriff allegedly shoot and kill that judge just hours later, in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:50:30] DEAN: More mystery tonight surrounding the shooting of a Kentucky judge, a circuit court clerk says District Judge Kevin Mullins had lunch with Letcher County Sheriff Shawn Stines hours before Mullins was shot and killed.

Police now saying the shooter was Sheriff Stines.

CNN's Gloria Pazmino is following the story and she joins us now with the latest. Gloria still no motive here, and the case just continues to get more puzzling, really.

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right, Jessica, it's really a bizarre set of events and its all affecting this very small community in Kentucky.

And this last detail that we learned earlier today, that these two men shared a lunch together on the day of the shooting is just adding more confusion and mystery to what could have possibly happened between the two of them for it to end in the violent way in which it did.

Authorities have told us so far that the sheriff for Letcher County, his name is Shawn Stines, walked into the chambers of District Court, Kevin Mullins. The two men appeared to engage in an argument and then the sheriff drew his weapon and fired multiple shots, killing the court judge, Judge Mullins.

Now, again, we do not know what the nature of this argument was but, Jessica, we know that these two men were certainly known to each other, not only that they share a meal earlier in the day, but sheriffs in Kentucky are responsible for the security and the safety of judges. So, we know that the two had a relationship and we're waiting to hear more about the potential motive here.

Now, this is a very small community, only about 1,700 people live there. And we know that these two men were very prominent figures in that community. In fact the county attorney for Letcher County has said that he is going to have to recuse himself from this case citing the fact that he worked and knew both men and the fact that he had family ties to Judge Mullins.

Now, some of the details we have learned from a court employee and I want you to listen to him just describing how this has affected the community. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE WATTS: LETCHER COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT CLERK: They had been in court that day, so judge and sheriff, they ate lunch together. It is just unimaginable, I don't know what happened or what the reason was, I know that the state police are investigating it and I feel confident that they will hopefully provide some answers on why. And maybe that'll be able to get resolved and heal -- but the entire county community is just in shock, both of them are well liked.

(END VIDEO CLIP) PAZMINO: Now, Jessica just to add to another twist in this whole story is that Stines' court appearance has now been scheduled for next week. He will be arraigned in a few days, but he cannot appear in the court where this would have typically happened because it's the court where the shooting took place.

So, he's been transferred to another county about a hundred miles away for that proceeding to happen. And also, the judge that would have arraigned him, it's the judge that was killed in this horrible shooting. So, you can see just how much this town has been affected. The law enforcement community deeply paralyzed because of this.

Kentucky is currently in the process of sending a retired judge who will oversee in that court all of the other matters that have to happen in this county and in the meantime, a judicial appointment commission will be convened in the state of Kentucky to name another judge to this seat as this investigation continues, Jessica,

But this community is grappling and trying to understand how this could have happened and why.

DEAN: All right, Gloria Pazmino, thank you so much. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:59:14]

DEAN: The spread of misinformation and conspiracy theories has flourished on the alt-right in recent years, but left wing progressives can sometimes also be susceptible and in tomorrow's "The Whole Story" with Anderson Cooper, one young man tried to explain his unusual worldview to CNN, senior correspondent, Donie O'Sullivan.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBINSON MEYER, COINED THE TERM "BERNIE BROS": See, this is the thing and that's probably what you're going to cut this all up into is me being like a really bad, evil White man racist, that oh man, I just hate Democrats, I hate liberals, like a bunch of commies, you know, and it's like, okay, one, I was just a part of them, look four years ago. I was in it, right?

I've been betrayed by them multiple times. So, now I'm trying my hand at being betrayed by the Republican Party.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Be sure to tune in to an all new episode of "The Whole Story" with Anderson Cooper, airs tomorrow night at 8:00 Eastern and Pacific, only on CNN.

And you can catch the brand new episode of "Have I Got News For You" with host Roy Wood Jr. and team captains, Amber Ruffin And Michael Ian Black. It airs tonight at 9:00 Eastern and Pacific, only on CNN. Thanks so much for joining me this evening. I'm Jessica Dean. I'm going to see you again tomorrow night starting at 5:00 Eastern, "Real Time" with Bill Maher is up next.

Have a great night.