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Hezbollah And Israel Trade Cross-Border Strikes; Hezbollah Vows Battle Without Limits; U.S. Urges Americans To Leave Lebanon; Birmingham Shooting Leaves 4 Dead And 17 Injured; Gun Violence Is At Epidemic Level Says Mayor Of Birmingham. House Speaker Releases New Spending Bill To Avoid Government Shutdown; Major Shakeup In Mark Robinson Campaign After CNN Report; Federal Agents Search New NYPD Chief's Homes. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired September 22, 2024 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Fredericka Whitefield. The "CNN Newsroom" continues with Jessica Dean right now.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: You're in the "CNN Newsroom." I'm Jessica Dean in New York. Fierce exchanges of fire across the Israeli-Lebanese border are threatening to turn into all-out war. Hezbollah fired rockets deeper into Israeli territory overnight, and the Israeli military continues to hit targets along that border, capping a dramatic week of major operations against their Iranian-backed foe.

It's enough escalation to have the U.S. concerned. They are urging all sides to step back from the brink. CNN's Julia Benbrook joining us now live from the White House. And Julia, how's the administration approaching this from the diplomatic side?

JULIA BENBROOK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, to start, the U.S. embassy in Lebanon is urging Americans to get out while commercial fights are still available. The U.S. State Department issued a new travel advisory over the weekend. It's a level four advisory, the highest that they issue. And in it, they said, quote, "do not travel to Lebanon due to crime, terrorism, civil unrest, kidnapping, unexploded landmines, and the risk of armed conflict."

It also said that those who remain in the area should be prepared to shelter in place if the situation worsens. This is all happening as President Joe Biden enters a very important week when it comes to foreign relations. He's headed to the United Nations General Assembly in New York in just a few days. And when he arrived back at the White House this afternoon, took some questions from reporters, he reaffirmed that he is concerned about the growing tensions in the Middle East.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: Mr. President, are you worried about rising tensions in the Middle East? JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Yes, I am, but we're going to do everything we can to keep the wider war from breaking out. And we're still pushing hard. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BENBROOK: In a series of interviews earlier today, White House National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby, he said that it is the White House's view that military escalation does not help Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's goal of returning to normalcy. He also spoke about how the U.S. is not giving up on hostage and ceasefire negotiations, but acknowledges that Hamas's leader is a big obstacle when it comes to these talks.

Just a few days ago, Biden was asked about these ongoing ceasefire talks, and I think his answer gives a lot of insight as to how they see this going forward. He said, quote, "a lot of things don't look realistic until we get them done. We have to keep at it." Jessica?

DEAN: All right, Julia Benbrook for us with the latest reporting from the White House. Thank you for that. Hezbollah's second ranking commander now calling this a battle without limits in a week with hundreds of rocket blast airstrikes and deadly exploding pagers and walkie talkies. Ben Wedeman is joining us now live from Beirut. Ben, the question on so many people's mind, where is this all headed?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly we've seen six days of rising tensions, and it doesn't seem that they're going to be going down. We were at the funeral of Ibrahim Akhil, that senior Hezbollah commander who was killed last Friday in the strike on Beirut that killed him and more than a dozen other Hezbollah militants as well as many civilians, including women and children. At that funeral, he said that Hezbollah will continue to strike targets in northern Israel, will prevent Israelis from returning to their homes along the border.

And he said that the strikes that took place overnight, three individual salvos that reached deep inside Israel, he said that those were just the beginning of what he called a battle without limits. And we've also heard from the Israeli side, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, saying that if Hezbollah didn't get the message, I promise it will get the message. His chief of staff of the army, Herzl Halevi, came out and said that Israel will intensify its strikes on Lebanon.

Basically, what we've seen since last Tuesday is every single day has either seen a major event if you can call it that, like the pager explosions, like the walkie-talkie explosions, like Friday's strike on Beirut, or for instance, the other days we've seen intense Israeli strikes on southern Lebanon, and of course what we saw in the early hours of this morning was Hezbollah strikes on Israel.

[17:04:58]

So just every single day brings more and more evidence that things are escalating dramatically. Of course, we heard that the Americans are doing what they can. to prevent a full-scale war. But what we've seen so far since October is that U.S. diplomacy really hasn't made much progress. Secretary of State Antony Blinken has made 10 visits to the Middle East and has yet to been able to actually halt the fighting in any meaningful way.

And, you know, here in Beirut back in 1982, I remember. President Reagan was able to stop the Israelis from bombing during the siege of West Beirut and within three months end what was a very bloody and destructive war. This time around it doesn't seem the Americans have the will or the ability or the willingness to use pressure on all sides to bring the war in Gaza to an end which would have a knock-on effect of bringing the hostilities on the border between Israel and Lebanon to an end as well. Jessica?

DEAN: All right, Ben Wedeman for us in Beirut tonight. Thank you very much for that reporting. And let's bring in our next two guests, CNN Global Affairs analyst Kim Dozier and senior editor for Bloomberg, Bobby Ghosh. It's good to see both of you this afternoon. Kim, let's start first with you. There has been this back and forth between Hezbollah and Israel since Hezbollah began firing rockets into Israel in support of Hamas following October 7th. But this week we have seen this escalation in this whole situation. Is there a point of no return when it comes to all-out war between these two entities?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: There may be, but we're not there yet. At this point, it is still pinpointed attacks for the most part by each side, the volleys going back and forth. What holds Israel back from an all scale invasion like it did in 2006 is its troops are tired and going in on the ground would mean a labor intensive operation because these missiles and rockets that Israel has been striking. Israeli officials have briefed me that many of them are inside or near populated areas. That means counterinsurgency, going house to house, looking for hidden caches of weapons.

And on the Hezbollah side, the reason I think they're holding back is, first of all, there's the communications disarray caused by the pager and walkie talkie attacks that have been attributed to Israel. Plus, Hezbollah has always intended to use those weapons as an answer to Israel's attack on Iran at some point in the future. If it starts hitting populated areas with those missiles, that would trigger a back and forth conflagration that would force it to use rockets that Iran hopes to use in another strategic context if it gets threatened in the future.

DEAN: And Bobby, a top-ranking Hezbollah official is now calling this a battle without limits. What do you think that might look like, and how will these extensive losses that we've seen in their leadership impact Hezbollah's ability to fight? How might that all play out?

BOBBY GHOSH, SENIOR EDITOR, BLOOMBERG: Well, Israel is hoping that it gravely sort of damages the infrastructure of war that Hezbollah has at its command. The targeting of their top operations leader and the leader of their special forces unit, Ibrahim Akhil, Ben Wedeman was just talking about his funeral there, that's a very, very significant kill from Israel's point of view. He would have been crucial in any escalation of hostilities between the two sides. I wanted to add a point to what Kim was saying there, which is among

Israel's many calculations, and one of the reasons why Israel would not want this to escalate to the next level, if it can possibly help it, is that Hezbollah is a very different kind of enemy than Hamas. What we've seen over the past year with Israel's operations against Hamas in Gaza has been for the most part, a very one-sided. After October 7th, after Hamas's initial attack on Israel, it's been mostly one-sided.

Hezbollah is a very, very different creature. It is a closer to an army. It has tens of thousands of fighters, battle-hardened from previous battles with Israel, and with a lot of experience of more recent fighting in places like Syria. Hezbollah has a far more threatening arsenal of weapons, tens of thousands of rockets, hundreds, possibly thousands of Iranian-made missiles. It is a much, much more potent force.

[17:09:59]

And a war between Israel and Hezbollah would look very different from the war between Israel and Hamas. It would be one in which ordinary Israelis would feel the war in a much more real way than they have done the war against Hamas. And that has got to factor into the calculations, both of the political leadership in Israel, but also the military leadership.

DEAN: Yeah, I think that is such important context that you point out. And Kim, to that end, we know President Biden has expressed concern. We just heard him saying it over the escalation. We know that the administration publicly continues to push for this diplomatic solution. But our analyst, Barak Ravid, who's at Axios, has also reported that some U.S. officials have said that they understand this idea of Israel's, that they have to escalate to de-escalate. That's the strategy. But they acknowledge that's a very hard calibration. What do you think about all of that?

DOZIER: Well, from the Israeli point of view, the time that they got the most hostages back was when they had invaded Gaza and really had Hamas militarily on the run. But now we're also in a situation where the Biden administration also has to look like it's not pushing too hard because what's happened in the past when they pushed hard behind closed doors or made strident comments in public, it hasn't changed the behavior of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

And this close to the U.S. election, when Netanyahu is hoping for a Trump presidency, which he believes would act in his favor, he's not going to give the Biden administration the win of a ceasefire and the return of hostages when he can just keep this violence turning over. That's a very kind of calculated way to describe it, but when you hear from Israelis, that's what they, many of them, especially some of the hostage families think is going on, that Netanyahu is dragging out the violence in one sense because on the international stage, he's hoping there'll be a new person in the White House who will be more favorable to him.

DEAN: And Bobby, we have to go, but I'll give you a final thought on that topic as well.

GHOSH: Well, that clearly is the calculation that Bibi Netanyahu has that there will be a change of leadership. I am skeptical that would make that much of a difference. I don't think Donald Trump wants to come into office should that happen. Having to deal with the war in the Middle East, a war in which the United States will, whether it likes it or not, you'll get more and more involved. I think there have been some communications from the Biden, from the Trump camp to Biden, I beg your pardon, to Bibi Netanyahu making that exact point. I don't think Trump wants a war in the Middle East any more than Biden does. So that maybe Bibi Netanyahu's calculation, but I think he may not have got that one properly calibrated.

DEAN: All right, Kim Dozier and Bobby Ghosh, thanks to both of you.

GHOSH: Thank you.

DEAN: New tonight, Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky has just arrived in the United States as part of a week-long push for more support for its war against Russia. He arrived this afternoon and today he is expected to tour a Pennsylvania factory that makes critical munitions for his country. During his time in the States, Zelensky is expected to present his victory plan to President Biden. He's also set to take part in the United Nations General Assembly in New York.

The mayor of Birmingham, Alabama says gun violence is at, quote, "epidemic level." This after gunmen killed four people overnight and wound at 17 others. The mayor will join me live. That's next.

Plus, federal agents searching the homes of New York City's acting police commissioner. You're in the "CNN Newsroom."

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[17:15:00]

DEAN: A manhunt is underway after a mass shooting in Birmingham, Alabama. Police say at least four people were killed, at least 17 others injured. This happened late last night in Five Points South. It's a popular entertainment area there. Multiple gunmen are believed to be involved. CNN's Raphael Romo is live in Birmingham where we're learning more details about how the shooting unfolded. Rafael, what are you hearing from officials?

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi Jessica. There are several key details officials have revealed so far today. First, Birmingham Police Chief Scott Thurmond says several individuals showed up in a car shortly after 11:00 last night, got out of the car and opened fire leaving three people dead here at the scene. Those victims were two men and a woman. A fourth victim was pronounced dead later at the University of Alabama Hospital.

Another key detail is that police believe this was a targeted hit on one person and the other victims were caught in the crossfire. This is how Birmingham Police Chief Scott Thurmond explained it earlier today. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT THURMOND, POLICE CHIEF, BIRMINGHAM POLICE DEPARTMENT: We believe the individual that was targeted is among the deceased. We believe that there was a hit, if you will, on that particular person, as far as, you know, someone was willing to pay money to have that person killed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMO: Jessica, this has been a very violent year for the city of Birmingham. A shooting at a nightclub in July left four people dead and 10 others injured in February. Four men were shot and killed outside a public library.

[17:19:59]

A Birmingham resident says this situation is very sad, not only for this area, but the entire city.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAJON SINGLETON, LIVES IN BIRMINGHAM: It was very devastating, very, and sad. My heart just goes out to the family and friends that was injured or lost a loved one due to trying to have a good time. It's just very sad for the Five Points area.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMO: Police found additional gunshot victims here in the area. Other victims arrived at local hospitals on their own. The University of Alabama at Birmingham Hospital received 11 of the victims, including one of the people who died according to a spokesperson. The conditions of victims have not been released, Jessica, but police say at least four victims have life-threatening injuries. Now back to you.

DEAN: All right, Rafael Romo for us. They're live in Birmingham, Alabama. Thank you so much for that. And Birmingham, as Rafael mentioned, has seen multiple mass shootings this year. According to CNN affiliates, a shooting at a nightclub in the city in July left four people dead, 10 injured. Four men were shot and killed outside a public library in February.

The mayor of Birmingham, Mayor Randall Woodfin joining me now. Mayor, thanks so much for being here with us. I know this is a sad and very heavy day for your city. You have said that gun violence is quote, "at an epidemic level in Birmingham." How do you cure this epidemic?

RANDALL WOODFIN, MAYOR, BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA: I think this requires support of federal partners and a change in laws at the state level. City of Birmingham and all municipalities in the state of Alabama don't have (inaudible) rule. And so it takes partnership, collaboration, and down in the state house in Montgomery to change laws that are stricter and tougher to give Birmingham police the tools to take shooters off the streets prior to an incident like this. I will say that my heart goes out to the victims that are deceased.

And for those victims who are alive, I do want to express that they recover well, and we're thinking about them. But our focus and our priority is literally on capturing the shooter or shooters who committed this heinous crime to make sure we can take them off the street.

DEAN: And at this point, the shooter or shooters are still at large. What more are you learning about this? Our reporting indicates, and it came from officials there in Birmingham that said one person was being targeted and one is one too many, but this is just incredible -- incredibly horrible collateral damage here.

WOODFIN: It's unacceptable. I think you're in a situation where you have these assault weapons that are being used at a higher proportion. In addition to that, you have converters and Glock switches that are used on these semi-automatics to make them automatic. So when you pull the trigger, that you can't even handle the gun, all the bullets are released at one time. We're talking about a crime scene that unfortunately had over 100 shots.

And so in situations like this, there are preventable measures prior to if police are giving tools by state law and or federal law. You know, my position is a nonpartisan position. And so I don't want to politicize a matter where life has been lost and too many people today have to wake up with a new normal where they don't have their loved ones, but I will say this does require a political shift at every level. It does require us to roll up our sleeves and make common sense laws that actually save lives.

When you're partisan, you get to just pick a side and stay in your corner. But in my position as mayor, we only want to solve not only this problem, but prevent things like this from happening not just in Birmingham, but all over our country.

DEAN: And I want to ask you about the weapons used in the shooting. You mentioned they were believed to have these conversion devices or these switches that allow the weapon to override the trigger mechanism on a gun. So it essentially functions as a machine gun. You mentioned over 100 casings. I know the U.S. Attorney's Office in Birmingham announced an initiative cracking down on those illegal devices in July. You're talking about political will to change laws. What more are you hearing about people being willing to take steps to ensure the safety of people in Birmingham and in Alabama?

WOODFIN: Listen, I want to thank the U.S. Attorney. I want to thank our federal partners, ATF, FBI, not only for assisting in this crime, that's an open, active investigation, but other crimes we've had where there have been mass shootings. I want to make this very, very clear related to these conversions. It is federally outlawed. They are illegal federally, but not at the state level. But at the exact same time where the federal government have outlawed them, they've also decreased ATF's budget.

[17:25:02] ATF is the agency we need to investigate those who are making these conversion devices, who are selling these conversion devices. But if you strip their budget, you tie their hands behind their back and prevent them from taking these types of devices off the streets that are in people's hands who only want to hurt and kill people.

DEAN: Alright, Mayor Randall Woodfin, thank you so much for your time. We certainly send our thoughts to so many in your community who are hurting today. Thank you so much.

WOODFIN: Thank you.

DEAN: And we are following some breaking news. House Speaker Mike Johnson just laid out his new plan to avoid a government shutdown. We are now just a few days ahead of the deadline. We're going to get reaction from the ranking member of the House Budget Committee. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:29:59]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We have breaking news in the CNN. Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson just releasing his new spending bill that would prevent a government shutdown. CNN's Julia Benbrook is joining us now from the White House. Julia, this news just coming in. What are you learning?

JULIA BENBROOK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, in a letter to his members, House Speaker Mike Johnson outlined his plan to avoid a government shutdown with that September 30th deadline quickly approaching, and he says that this is going to be a very narrow bare-bones CR, including only the extensions that are absolutely necessary. While this is not the solution any of us prefer, it is the most prudent path forward under the present circumstances. His plan funds the government with a limited continuing resolution through December 20th.

Now Johnson is leading with a very slim majority, and he has tried to fix this funding problem over the last week, bringing other versions to the floor. But after some members of his own party pushed back against it, he was really having trouble getting something over the finish line.

We are hearing some hope from the other side as Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries is responding. He says that the Democrats will evaluate the plan when they return to Washington, but added Congress is now on a bipartisan path to avoid a government shutdown that would hurt everyday Americans.

This still has a lot of hurdles to go through before it makes it here to the president's desk. As far as some of the specifics that are added into this bill, we do know that there is going to be some additional funding for the Secret Service. That has been a really big topic on Capitol Hill following those two apparent assassination attempts against former President Donald Trump. Jessica? DEAN: All right, Julia Benbrook with the breaking news for us, thank you so much. And joining us to discuss the latest on this budget proposal is the ranking member on the House Budget Committee, Congressman Brendan Boyle from Pennsylvania. Congressman, thanks so much for being here with us today. We appreciate it.

REP. BRENDAN BOYLE (D-PA): Yeah, happy to be with you.

DEAN: It is timely to have you on because we are getting this breaking news that the House speaker has put out what appears to be a pretty clean CR. I'm curious what your response is.

Well, I certainly welcome it. Obviously, as the House Democratic leader, Hakeem Jeffries, said in his statement, we'll have to review it to make sure it really is a clean CR. But if it is as advertised, it is a positive step forward to solving this problem in a bipartisan way.

I'm glad to see that the Republican speaker after first really wasting the last several months attempting to do a republican only bill and ultimately fail by 20 votes on the floor this past week, he has now actually reached out to us so we can do a continuing resolution in a clean way and then finally come up with what we always knew was going to happen at the end of this process, and that is a bipartisan compromise when you have a republican House, a democratic senate, and the Democratic president.

DEAN: I was going to say divided government usually leads -- it means it has to end in some sort of compromise to get where you want to go. And oftentimes, you will know these fights isn't just the additional funding. There are other things that are added in, and you were just alluding to this. In this case, Republicans and House speaker wanted to include something which was called the SAVE Act that would have required proof of citizenship to vote in federal elections. Worth noting it's already illegal for non-citizens to vote in federal elections.

So now we've arrived at this place where, as you're saying, and it appears to us as well that it is just a clean CR, if it is indeed that, do you think that's something you can support and that this could move forward pretty quickly?

BOYLE: Yeah, I'm very confident that if it's a clean CR, you would see a big bipartisan democratic vote. Once again, however, though, I think Speaker Johnson will have problems on his own side both from former President Trump, who has openly said he wants a government shutdown, as well as the typical hardliners within the House Republican Conference who are always a "no" no matter what the issue is. But House Democrats, I'm confident, are willing to stand up for the American people and make sure that we don't have a completely unnecessary and costly government shutdown.

DEAN: All right, I also want to talk to you a little bit about the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania where you live and reside. Once again, likely to be the center of the political universe in this presidential election. Back in 2020, it took four days to count the votes and declare the winner. Of course, in that race, it was President Biden. Do you anticipate it's going to take or could potentially take days again to count the votes?

BOYLE: So, first, I have to say, as a proud Pennsylvanian, we enjoy our moment in the spotlight --

(LAUGHTER)

-- every four years as the biggest battleground state.

[17:35:04]

But I do also want to make sure the American people understand, the reason why it took four days to count our ballots last time is not because we're slow counters in Pennsylvania. It is because the republican-controlled legislature actually does something in this state that doesn't happen in most other states, and that is there is a prohibition against the state election board from being able to count the early ballots that they receive. That is not the way the law is in some 43 other states.

So, the fact that it wasn't until 7:00 a.m. on Election Day that the 67 various election county offices could even begin the process combined, of course, with the fact we were in the middle of the most deadly pandemic in a century which caused so many people, myself included, to vote absentee or by mail for the first time ever.

Now, looking forward to this November 5th, I am hopeful that it will not take before days that it took last time in part because you will have fewer people voting by mail. However, if this is another incredibly close election and the margin comes down to just 10,000 votes or fewer, then there could be a delay which pushes us into the day after the election.

DEAN: Yeah, and it absolutely could be, so we will have to see how that happens. But you make a good point pointing out what is -- what is specific to Pennsylvania, which is they can't start counting those ballots until the morning.

BOYLE: Right.

DEAN: All right, Congressman Brendan Boyle, thanks so much. We appreciate it.

BOYLE: Thank you.

DEAN: And we are following more breaking news involving North Carolina's embattled Republican gubernatorial candidate Mark Robinson. We're learning about a major shakeup in his campaign tonight in the aftermath of that bombshell CNN report. We've got all the details for you. That's next.

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[17:40:00]

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DEAN: We have breaking news out of North Carolina where the Republican gubernatorial candidate, Mark Robinson, has announced a number of staff members stepping down from his campaign as a result of CNN reporting by Andrew Kaczynski and his team members. He is on the phone with us right now. Andrew is the senior editor of CNN's KFile. Andrew, walk us through what you're learning here.

ANDREW KACZYNSKI, CNN KFILE SENIOR EDITOR (via telephone): Well, that's right. CNN has learned that four top operatives on North Carolina Lieutenant Governor Mark Robinson's campaign have stepped down. The campaign just announced that on Saturday. The general consultant and senior advisor, his campaign manager, finance director and deputy campaign manager all have stepped down from the campaign.

This obviously comes in the aftermath of our report from Thursday on his inflammatory comments from over a decade ago on a pornographic message board. Since that CNN report, North Carolina Republicans have been pressuring Robinson to drop out of the race, and this is just the latest reverberation of that report making its way through North Carolina politics.

DEAN: Yeah, no doubt about it. And, of course, former President Trump was there in North Carolina at a rally yesterday. He did not mention the lieutenant governor by name. He did previously endorse him. But it's worth noting, Andrew, that again, just highlighting the fact, these aren't just various members of his staff, these are the top members of the campaign staff that are choosing to quit.

KACZYNSKI (via telephone): That's right, this is his campaign manager and deputy campaign manager. I've been covering politics for actually 12, 13 years now. I've never seen an entire campaign staff just quit in this manner. Obviously, the next question is going to be what happened to the Robinson campaign. He did cancel those events last week ahead of our story. He did appear to an even this weekend, but -- I mean, where the story goes from here, we're obviously going to continue to follow this.

DEAN: Right. And, of course, you broke this story. I am curious, just for our viewers, to remind them, I know you all did reach out for comment on this. What have you heard, if anything, from Mark Robinson himself?

KACZYNSKI (via telephone): Well, we interviewed Robinson ahead of our story on Thursday. We reached out to that campaign. Ahead of our story on Tuesday, we gave him the deadline of Thursday at 10 a.m. Around that time, we got -- we focused this campaign and asked if we could push it back so we could talk to Robinson. And we interviewed him and posted our story.

And during that interview, he vehemently denied this account that we found where he made those comments on that forum, including calling himself a -- quote -- "Black Nazi" and saying that he was peeping on women in public showers as a teen and a whole lot of other comments that some of which we can't even say on air. He defended himself. He said this wasn't him. We ran through all of the evidence in that interview and Robinson is still really denying that's him in face of that overwhelming evidence that CNN found.

DEAN: Yeah. All right, Andrew, stay with us. I do want to bring in Republican strategist and former communications director for the RNC, Doug Heye. Doug, also a native North Carolinian, so I know you follow and know North Carolina politics so well.

[17:45:00]

Just your initial reaction to what we're learning right now about all of the top staff leaving Mark Robinson's campaign.

DOUG HEYE, FORMER RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: So, two things. One, not a huge surprise. And two, not really impactful. And I say that, Jessica, because the Mark Robinson for governor campaign is over. It probably was over before the revelations that Andrew put out late last week, but it is now officially over. Josh Stein will be the next governor from North Carolina.

The question and what make this significant then is how does this impact Donald Trump and his campaign and how does it affect those campaigns down ballot as well. And I can tell you, the night that the story came out that Andrew and his team wrote, I got a text message from somebody who's running statewide and it said, I think I'm toast. And that's the problem for everybody who's running statewide and even in some of these -- some other races.

We have a targeted congressional seat in North Carolina, one for instance, the Robinson effect there could be big. Donald Trump didn't mention him because he wants no part of Mark Robinson right now. That also is significant. But the idea that Mark Robinson is ever going to be the governor of North Carolina is over.

DEAN: It is interesting because the way this statement is framed is he says that he will be announcing new incoming staff members coming soon. He said he remains in a strong position to make the case to voters and win on November 5. But Doug, I hear you. When you look at just the polling even before this all came out, it was going to be a tough race for him. And now, to your point, we're here.

HEYE: Yeah. Look, he didn't have -- to be blunt about it, Jessica, he didn't have the A team before this. And now, we're talking about, you know, the QRS teams of anybody who might want to join his campaign. He also doesn't have a lot of money, which means -- watching the North Carolina football debacle yesterday, there were a lot of TV ads that I saw for Kamala Harris, for Donald Trump, and for Josh Stein. Didn't see any Mark Robinson ads. He doesn't have the money to go on the air. So, how he's going to make that case really doesn't exist at this point.

And it's all really about those people who are going to decide the election, the 440,000 new unaffiliated voters who've moved to North Carolina or registered unaffiliated since 2020. They're going to decide the presidential election. The governor's election is already done.

DEAN: Yeah. And so, one theory of the case I heard yesterday was -- look, does something like this in a state where the presidential is -- there's a huge lopsided one way or the other. Does it make -- does it close the gap enough for the other person? Maybe not. But in a place like North Carolina where we can continue to see this polling that is so unbelievably close and it is going to likely be one on the margins, that this is something that could drive just enough in the margins. What do you think of that?

HEYE: That fear has been there for a long time. I've heard this from Republicans for weeks and months, that Robinson could be a drag on Donald Trump. And look, we typically don't see that happen. What we call reverse coattails usually never happens.

But when you have a statewide candidate who doesn't have money to go on the air or to have a real robust turnout operation and who is also causing serious distractions for the top of the ticket, then you can't completely dismiss it -- dismiss that that's a possibility. You want in a campaign, you want to have all your boats rowing in the same direction, and one of them is absolutely stalled.

DEAN: Yeah. All right, Andrew Kaczynski, Doug Heye, our thanks to both of you. Stay with us. And, of course, we're going to continue to stay on this breaking news. We're having major developments from the Mark Robinson campaign as a direct result of Andrew Kaczynski, the KFile, and CNN's reporting. We'll stay on this and have more for you after the break.

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[17:50:00]

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DEAN: Federal agents searched the homes of New York's new police chief after only 10 days on that job. Interim Commissioner Thomas Donlon says federal agents searched his homes and took items that are not related to his work with the NYPD. He's now the latest official and Mayor Eric Adams circled to be the subject of a federal raid. CNN's Gloria Pazmino is following this. Gloria, tell us more.

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jessica, it remains unclear to us why federal authorities took the remarkable step of searching the homes of Commissioner Tom Donlon, but we do know from our law enforcement sources that the warrant was specifically about documents that Donlon might have held onto from his time working at the FBI.

We're also told that this latest search warrant is not related to any of the four other investigations happening involving mayor Eric Adams and senior members of his administration. We do have a statement from the commissioner who responded to this last night, saying in part that federal authorities had come into his home, took materials that came into my possession approximately 20 years ago and are unrelated to my work with the New York Police Department. This is not a department matter and the department will not be commenting.

Now it's important to note, Jessica, that Tom Donlon has had a long career in law enforcement, specifically with the FBI. So, the question here is whether he has some documents from that time that the FBI is looking to get back. What's not clear to us is why this is happening now or if the FBI initially asked him to turn over the documents. He will certainly be looking to have to answer that question over the next several days.

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And although this is not related to those other investigations, it is certainly something that Mayor Eric Adams is going to have to answer about in the next coming days as these investigations continue to unfold. We'll wait to see if there will be a resolution from these federal probes. Jessica?

DEAN: Yeah, just so many questions here. All right, Gloria Pazmino, thank you so much for that reporting. And we are following the breaking news, some senior -- some of the most senior members quitting the embattled republican gubernatorial campaign of Mark Robinson in the aftermath of bombshell CNN reporting. Much more when we come back here in the "CNN Newsroom."

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