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Israeli Military Investigating Whether Hamas Leader Killed; IDF Checking DNA, Fingerprints to Confirm if Hamas Leader Killed; IDF Says, No Signs of Hostages in Area Where Hamas Leader May Have Been Killed. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired October 17, 2024 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. You're alive in the CNN Newsroom. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

We are following breaking news right now. The Israeli military is investigating whether the leader of Hamas, Yahya Sinwar, was killed in a strike in Gaza. Israel considers him the mastermind behind the October 7th terror attacks.

Let's get right into this. Let's go straight to CNN's Jeremy Diamond in Tel Aviv. Jeremy, what more are you learning?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, this would be an earth- shattering development if indeed it is confirmed. The Israeli military says that they have killed what they describe as three terrorists in the Gaza Strip, one of whom they believe may be Hamas' leader, Yahya Sinwar, the mastermind of the October 7th attacks that set off this year-long war inside the Gaza Strip.

The Israeli military is saying in a statement that, quote, the identity of the terrorist cannot yet be confirmed. They are also saying that this apparently happened in a building above ground in Gaza, which is extremely notable given the fact that the working assumption had been that Sinwar was hiding in tunnels for much of the last year. They also say that there are, quote, no signs of the presence of hostages in the area.

Now, Sinwar has been, of course, a central figure in this war over the course of the last year. Not only did he green light the October 7th attack that set off this war that has now seen 1,200 Israeli civilians killed on that day on October 7th, 1,200 Israelis, I should say, sorry, the majority of whom were civilians, but also, of course, more than 41,000 Palestinians have now died in the Gaza Strip, killed for sure by Israeli bombs and bullets.

But make no mistake that Sinwar also bears some share of responsibility for launching this war. And certainly we have seen growing expressions of anger, including by Gazan civilians who have increasingly blamed Sinwar in the aftermath of Israeli airstrikes for the continued suffering, as they believe, that he was hiding underground.

We will see how this actually impacts the continuation of this war and, of course, beyond that, whether or not this could perhaps make ceasefire and hostage negotiations easier to actually achieve, or whether instead the chaos that is likely to follow within Hamas following his potential death, whether or not that will make the situation worse. Jim?

ACOSTA: All right. Jeremy Diamond, keep us posted. Thank you so much.

We've got a lot of people to talk to about this. Let me bring in CNN Political and Global Affairs Analyst Barak Ravid. Barak, your sense of things right now? Obviously, as Jeremy was saying a few moments ago, there are massive implications if Sinwar is indeed dead.

BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes, definitely. I think it's highly likely that he is. You know, there's no official statement by the IDF yet, but all the people I talked to say that he's dead. There are pictures of his body. I think everybody who takes a look at those pictures, it's clear to him that it's him. We're just waiting for the official statement.

And, you know, Yahya Sinwar was the mastermind of the October 7th attack. He is the one that decided to do it. He is the one that launched this attack that killed 1,200 people, most of the civilians, kidnapped 250 people. 43 Americans were killed in this attack. 12 Americans were taken hostage.

This attack led to the most devastating war not only in Gaza's history, but in the history of the Palestinian people, with more than 40, 000 people dead, most of them civilian. And it all happened because of a decision of one man to launch this attack.

So, I think that this is, you know -- again, I still want to say that there's a slightest chance that maybe it's not him, although I don't think so. But, you know, if he's indeed that this is a dramatic moment for this war and a dramatic moment for the region, and it opens up the way for hopefully ending the war and moving on a new direction.

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ACOSTA: And, Barak, yes, we all remember the horrendous images that came out of the October 7th attack. I mean, it's going to be impossible, I think, for anyone really to erase those images from their minds anytime soon. And I'm just curious what kind of pressure does this put on the Israeli government to perhaps wind things down? Is there any appetite with Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, to do just that? What's your sense of that?

RAVID: My sense is that Netanyahu waited for exactly that moment for this, you know, victory picture, at least in Gaza. When you take out Yahya Sinwar, you can say I want even though Hamas hasn't been wiped out, it still exists.

The situation in Gaza is super, super problematic for Israel and there's no day after -- realistic day after plan. But for Netanyahu, politically, in Israeli politics, inside his coalition, he can now say we won and therefore we're ready to move on another path on a hostage deal on ending the war on trying to find, you know, a political solution to the current situation and not just continue on with this perpetual war.

ACOSTA: Let me bring in CNN's Alex Marquardt. He is in studio with me. Alex, I mean, you follow this very closely. I mean, this has big implications on a diplomatic front as well. I mean, we know the president right now is traveling. He has the secretary of state, Tony Blinken with him. He has the national security adviser, Jake Sullivan. And one of the things that we have heard time and again from Secretary Blinken through all of this is that one of the big impediments to getting some kind of deal that would release the hostages and perhaps start bringing this thing towards a ceasefire and a conclusion is Sinwar. He's been pretty -- I mean, as much as there's criticism for Prime Minister Netanyahu, Blinken has made it very clear Sinwar has been a huge obstacle in all of this.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. When you listen to U.S. officials, particularly in the last few weeks, talk about the possibility of a ceasefire in Gaza, they essentially put Netanyahu and Sinwar on equal footing, saying it's not clear whether either of them has the political willingness to strike a deal.

Now, you will often hear U.S. officials say that Hamas really is the impediment. Hamas has been changing the terms. We know that Netanyahu has also been changing the terms. Now, if Sinwar is off of the battlefield, a lot of the onus moves to Netanyahu. And he has a moment here, U.S. officials believe, where he can declare victory. He can say, we have decimated Hamas, we've taken 14, 15,000 of their fighters off of the battlefield, we've taken out their highest political and military echelon. It wouldn't just be Sinwar. It would be the head of the military wing, Mohammed Deif, and his deputy, Marwan Issa.

So, U.S. officials who I've been speaking with this morning, no doubt, see this as a moment where they could jumpstart the ceasefire negotiations that have been completely stalled in the water for the past few weeks. And more importantly, Jim, for months, the U.S. administration has seen the end of the war in Gaza, a ceasefire in Gaza, as the key to unlocking so much more, not just getting the Israeli hostages home, not just getting that critical aid into the Gaza Strip, for the hundreds of thousands of people who are suffering so much in Gaza, but also ending the confrontations that Israel is facing with Hezbollah to the north and Lebanon, the increasing attacks by the Houthis in Yemen, as well as other proxy groups.

So, this really is a -- could be a pivotal moment for not just the war in Gaza but so much of these growing and brewing conflicts.

ACOSTA: Yes. And not to mention the tensions with Iran as well, which has been on the rise, of course.

And CNN's Arlette Saenz is over at the White House for us. And, Arlette, if you can pick up on that point from Alex Marquardt, because it's an important one, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said at the outset of all of this that one of the goals was to crush Hamas. Taking out Sinwar obviously gets him to that goal, by and large. What might be the domestic political implications in all of this? It sounds like the White House is saying that they see this as a goal post for Netanyahu and for the Israelis.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. U.S. officials have long viewed the potential death of Hamas Leader Yahya Sinwar as a potential game changer and their best chance to potentially bring an end to this conflict in Gaza, but also trying to tame some of the other tensions in the Middle East.

Now, so far, the White House has yet to say anything publicly. They are likely waiting to see if the IDF does in fact confirm that they killed Sinwar in a operations within Gaza. But it would have major implications for the Biden administration as they have spent the better part of the last year trying to find an end to this conflict.

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Now, officials have long viewed Sinwar as one of the major obstacles to achieving a ceasefire and hostage release deal. Just on Tuesday, National Security Council Spokesperson John Kirby had said that there were no fresh negotiations underway and that Sinwar had shown no signs of wanting to have any serious discussions on this matter.

So, officials will be watching this confirmation if it comes very closely and also trying to determine what it means not just for the war in Gaza but also for the broader attention in the Middle East. But it also does come at a time when the situation in the Middle East, and specifically the war in Gaza, has been a major political issue in this 2024 campaign. It dogged President Biden as he was running, and it is now an issue that Vice President Kamala Harris continues to face as there has been growing discontent among some people, including young voters, Arab-American and Muslim American voters, about the administration's handling in this conflict.

So, we will see how exactly a potential death of Sinwar might play in the political season. But certainly this is something that the White House and officials across the administration will be watching closely. President Biden is on a plane to Germany for about the next six hours. He's on that plane with Secretary of State Antony Blinken and his National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan. Certainly, they will be receiving updates throughout the day as they are waiting to hear if Israel is able confirm that they have killed Sinwar.

ACOSTA: All right, Arlette. And we're just getting a word from the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, there were no signs of harm to any hostages in the Israeli operation in Gaza that may have killed Sinwar. A Netanyahu spokesperson said the prime minister had instructed the Israeli military to tell families of hostages there were no signs of harm to the hostages in the encounter in question. So, obviously, we're getting more details as the minutes go by. We're going to take a quick break, more on the other side, be right back.

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[10:15:00] ACOSTA: All right, welcome back to the Breaking News. The Israeli military investigating whether the Hamas leader, Yahya Sinwar, was killed in an operation in Gaza earlier today. I just want to tell you a little bit of reporting coming in from our Jeremy Diamond. It says, Israeli forces encountered a man believed to be Yahya Sinwar during routine military operations in the Gaza Strip. This is according to two Israeli sources. Infantry troops encountered three militants near a building in Gaza and engaged them, according to the sources. After the battle ended, troops found a body resembling Sinwar's and alerted senior commanders. That is when the process began of trying to identify whether this body is indeed Sinwar's through DNA analysis.

I want to go to Colonel Leighton, Colonel Cedric Layton, our military analyst, to ask him about this. And I think this has been said in other programs prior to this program. But let's say it on this program. The Israelis have Sinwar's DNA. So, that's how they were able to do this, if you could touch on that. And then also it almost seems as though -- I don't want to speculate as to how this went down, but that this was sort of a routine military operation and they happened upon Sinwar and these other men who are with him. What's your sense of it in terms of what you're hearing about the TikTok that is starting to emerge in all of this?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, Jim, it's going to be a fascinating TikTok too, looking at all the different aspects of this. But, you know, first to the DNA part of it, there's nothing like putting somebody in jail to collect their DNA. And the Israelis, of course, do that for all of the terrorists that they capture, that they imprison in their prison systems. So, they have this vast database of all of these people, and Yahya Sinwar is one of them.

And it's, you know, pretty interesting to note how they do this, and so this is basically at the moment of forensic examination. And as soon as it's finished, some say it has already finished, but we're obviously still waiting for the official confirmation that will then tell us whether indeed that body was Yahya Sinwar's.

Now, as far as this patrol happening upon Yahya Sinwar, where Sinwar and the three -- the total of three people that he was apparently with, there are a lot of situations in war where the area is shaped in essence by previous operations.

So, in this particular case, Jim, what you had was, of course, the bombing campaign of the Israelis, the intelligence efforts, all of those different things coming together in a way that forces Sinwar into the tunnel system or into the housing system. We're not sure exactly where he was spending most of his time, but, you know, our speculation was that he was mostly in tunnels, but he was clearly on the move when the patrol encountered him.

That part was the big coincidence, that the patrol happened to be there as he was moving, if it is indeed him. And that kind of coincidence is the kind of coincidence that can change the course of a war, can change the course of combat. And if it bears out, then we, you know, have the fact that the Israeli troops involved were doing their job and this whole battlefield, if you will, was shaped by the previous operations that the Israelis have conducted.

ACOSTA: And I do want to ask you for the folks at home who haven't been following this as closely as you or Alex Marquardt or others, has Sinwar essentially been in hiding this entire time and the Israeli defense forces have been essentially hunting him the entire time?

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LEIGHTON: Yes. You know, I think for an American audience, it's kind of like looking at the bin Laden situation. You know, as we were hunting bin Laden, it took us years to find bin Laden and Israelis, of course, did it well a little over a year. But, you know, they had a much smaller geographic area to deal with, but it was still difficult. It was still one of the most arduous tasks, both from an intelligence perspective and from a military operational perspective to do this kind of, you know, an operation and to actually get at that strategic as well as tactical goal that that you have here.

So, you know, when you look at the bin Laden raid, it took us, what, about 11 years or so to -- well, ten years to get him. And that was one of the things that, you know, I think shaped a lot of the way that the American military does its -- conducts its missions. A lot of it was intelligence-based. That particular mission was definitely intelligence-based. This one, you know, there happened to be that one coincidence that, you know, may have changed the course of this conflict, and it still be, you know.

So, a word of caution, Jim, I think it's still be one situation where there is still going to be fighting. There's still going to be -- there are going to be pockets of Hamas fighters that the Israelis will have to deal with, but they lack that major command and control or will be lacking that major command and control if Sinwar is, in fact, dead at this point.

ACOSTA: Absolutely, , it's a huge development.

And I want to go to former Israeli Ambassador to the U.S. Michael Oren, who joins us on the phone. Mr. Ambassador, thank you for being on the line with us.

If you can just explain to our viewers what this moment means to the Israeli people is Sinwar is, in fact, dead.

Mr. Ambassador, are you there? All right, we might be trying to get him back on the line.

Alex Marquardt -- yes, it looks like we lost the ambassador there. Alex, your sense of, as I was talking about with Colonel Leighton a few moments ago, this hunt that has been going on for Sinwar for the better part of a year, he has essentially been somebody that they had been searching for high and low for months now. And, I mean, if this were to happen, just sort of by happenstance during routine military operations, , that's just a massive development.

MARQUARDT: The way that this has unfolded is just remarkable. There is no sense that this was a major military operation that was launched in order to get Yahya Sinwar. It is essentially, as you said, that they stumbled across him.

The sense from U.S. and Israeli officials for most of the last year was that he was hiding in that vast network of hundreds of miles of tunnels, specifically under the southern city of Khan Younis, which is where he's from. And there was also reporting, again, citing Israeli officials, that he was surrounded by Israeli hostages, and that would make him more difficult to target.

And here, if this is indeed confirmed, it sounds like they came across him. He was above ground in a building. They killed him and he was not surrounded by hostages. And you have Netanyahu now reaching out to the families to say that no hostages were harmed. So, this is just remarkable.

From the U.S. perspective, they have been helping Israel in this hunt. Sinwar, of course, has been the most wanted man throughout this conflict. We were always asking the question whether Sinwar would, for example, use that tunnel system to go across the border into Egypt and escape. But that was never, in any way, confirmed. In fact, the sense was that he wanted to go down with the ship, that he wanted to die fighting. He wanted to die, you know, as a martyr fighting Israel, and that may have happened.

So, this really could be a, a real turning point, but by no means does this suggest that, you know, the hostages are going to immediately be released or that a ceasefire can immediately go into place. It is a step in that direction, but we don't know who would take his place --

ACOSTA: And who would make those decisions.

MARQUARDT: Correct. I mean, the senior political and military leadership of Hamas, many of them have been killed. Ismail Haniyeh was killed in Tehran a couple months ago. You have a lot of the leadership inside Gaza. There is a political leader in, in Doha, but real succession questions right now.

But there was an extraordinary hunt for this man in the 140 square miles, so a relatively small strip of land. But you have to remember, of course, there is that vast tunnel system that he appeared to have been able to hide in. But this could be a major, major turning point.

ACOSTA: Absolutely. All right, well, we're going to take a quick break. We'll have more on the other side of the break on the breaking news here at CNN that we're following this hour, the Israeli military investigating whether the leader of Hamas, Yahya Sinwar, was killed.

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They are checking the DNA analysis inside the Israeli government right now to see whether or not they can confirm that, but they believe that to be the case at this point. More on the other side of the break, be right back.

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ACOSTA: All right. Welcome back to the breaking news. Israeli officials now saying they do believe that the leader of Hamas was killed in a Gaza operation conducted by IDF forces. They are in the process of using DNA analysis to confirm whether Yahya Sinwar, the mastermind of the October 7th attack, has indeed been killed.

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