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Israel: Hamas Chief Yahya Sinwar Killed In Southern Gaza. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired October 17, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:01]

MATTHEW MILLER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: We're now at a different place. What that means going forward too early to tell, but we do believe it is an opportunity that we want to pursue.

REPORTER: And just pursuing that have been the obviously the -- we're talking about Gaza right now. But, of course, there's Lebanon, there's the war has clearly expanded from where we were a few months ago, when we're saying that the when the secretary of the president saying it's time to end the conflicts. There's also mean in Lebanon is at the time also to attend the conference.

MILLER: We do want to see ultimately a diplomatic resolution and now, look, you've facing different situation in Lebanon. There are still Hezbollah forces in close proximity of the Israel border, the border between Israel and Lebanon, who still not only maintain the capability to watch terrorist attacks against Israel, but are still launching terrorist attacks against Israel continued to rain rockets down on Israel from just across the border.

So it is -- it is a different conflict in a different space. We have never thought the two conflicts ought to be linked together, but, obviously, there are those in the region who have seen the two of them is linked so ultimately we want to see a diplomatic resolution to that conflict. We want to see an end to the fighting there. We want to see it done in a way that guarantees the implementation of 1701. So Hezbollah actually withdraws north of the Litani River.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: All right. You were just watching a State Department briefing there in light of the news that Yahya Sinwar has been killed, it is 8:00 pm in London. It its 10:00 p.m. in Gaza, 3:00 p.m. here in New York.

I'm Jessica Dean. I want to thank you so much for joining me today on CNN NEWSROOM. We're going to get right to the news now, beginning with that earth-shattering moment in the war between Israel and Hamas.

Israel saying its troops have killed Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar in southern Gaza. We do have an image that appears to be Sinwar's body in the rubble. We do want to warn you that this image may be disturbing.

Israel considered Sinwar the mastermind behind last year's October 7th attacks. And this death is having ripple effects all the way to Washington. U.S. officials viewing Sinwar's death as one of the best ways to find a path to end the war.

Our team is tracking this major breaking news. Let's start first with CNN's international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson, who is joining us now live from London.

And, Nic, I know you have been in Tel Aviv covering this extensively. Tell us how Sinwar's death played out.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: What the IDF is saying is this was a routine operation that their troops run. They saw movement on the second floor of a building and fired their tank into it and then sent drones into take a look. This is something they do a lot. They use drones to go into dangerous places where they don't know if they're completely killed the enemy, whatever it is.

And on that drone image, they say that they saw something that looked like Yahya Sinwar. The troops reported it back up the line to their commanders. So the narrative that the IDF has is that this is something that happened without specific intelligence an involved three people. The three, two others with Sinwar are dead. And as best we know, there are no hostages located near him.

But I think, you know, we're still waiting for all the details to come in at the moment. But this seems to have been the way the IDF is portraying it at the moment as a piece of luck actually.

DEAN: It is kind of remarkable that for all of this, it was like most likely a piece of luck. For the people in Gaza, the civilians there who've been caught in the middle of this war, what is Sinwar's death mean for them?

ROBERTSON: Yeah. I think there'll be asking exactly the same question and there are so many people there that are sick and tired of Hamas, sick and tired of the war, you know, absolutely hating Israel for everything that Israel has done to them, but also blaming Hamas for bringing the war upon them. So there will be people that are just hoping, hope against hope that this is an end to the war.

There will be those in Hamas who will see Sinwar as a monitor the cause, that they will continue fighting, that they may have lost some significant direction and their leadership for the short term, but this is an organization that, that is built on the idea of resistance, built on the idea of resilience and built on the idea of continuing to fight. So, you know, the real -- the real tough part is what kind of opportunity is Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu willing to see this as in terms of getting the hostages freed and the possibility for a ceasefire.

Does he see this as an opportunity where his really taken out the leader of Hamas delivered to the Israeli people, the person most vilified for the October 7 attacks, done that scored a very big political victory in terms of, you know, Israelis perception of the situation?

[15:05:04]

But is he willing to offer Gazans or a deal to Hamas that they can actually often at the moment --

DEAN: Nic?

ROBERTSON: Yeah.

DEAN: I'm sorry, I'm going to interrupt you because we are getting a Pentagon briefing.

So thank you for your reporting. I do want to listen into what the Pentagon is saying.

MAJ. GEN. PAT RYDER, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: High altitude area defense battery represents the United States unwavering, enduring, and ironclad commitment to Israel security. The secretary also expressed strong support for the immediate release of all remaining hostages and a ceasefire in Gaza.

We'll have much more to say from the department on the death of Sinwar very soon and we'll keep you updated.

Separately as we announced last evening, U.S. military forces, including U.S. Air Force B-2 bombers, conducted precision strikes against five hardened underground weapons storage locations and Houthi controlled areas of Yemen. U.S. forces targeted several of the Houthis underground facilities housing various weapons components of the types the Houthis have used to target civilian and military vessels throughout the region.

U.S. Central command is still conducting a post-strike assessments, so I don't have any details to provide on that front other than to say that we struck exactly what we intended to hit. We'll provide updates as appropriate.

As Secretary Austin highlighted in his statement last night, the employment of the B-2 bomber was a unique demonstration of the United States ability to target facilities that our adversaries seek to keep out of reach, no matter how deeply buried underground, hardened, or fortified and it demonstrates U.S. global strike capabilities to take action against these targets when necessary anytime, anywhere. It also sends a clear message to the Houthis that there will continue to be consequences for their illegal and reckless attacks, which put innocent civilian lives in U.S. and partner forces lives at risk shifting gears.

Secretary Austin arrived yesterday in Brussels and today participated in D-ISIS ministerial, the first session of the NATO defense ministerial and a productive meeting of the NATO, Ukraine council. In his opening remarks at the D-ISIS ministerial, Secretary Austin highlighted the work over the last decade of the global coalition to defeat ISIS. And that, quote, for ten years, this coalition has tackled the scourge of ISIS, our success stems from our resolve, our commitment to working together, and our willingness to adapt these core elements will remain at the heart of the next phase of our mission, end quote.

Tomorrow, Secretary Austin will participate in the second session of the NATO defense ministerial and engage with his NATO counterparts to discuss strengthening the collectives --

DEAN: And we are listening in on that Pentagon briefing. We're going to keep an eye on that and bring you any additional information as we get it.

In the meantime, I want to bring in CNN chief national security correspondent Alex Marquardt, who has been talking with sources since we've learned this information about Sinwar's death.

Alex, what are you hearing from us officials?

ALEXANDER MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, not very much there from the Pentagon. Jessica, we do know that Secretary Austin on his travels today when he was at NATO, he got passed a note by an aide saying that the Israelis were looking into the death of Sinwar, which has now been confirmed. He was actually killed yesterday, but it took more than a day to confirm that he was indeed killed.

What we're now hearing quite firmly, there's this growing chorus across the administration just that they see this as an opportunity. They see this as a moment to use the words of the State Department spokesman to redouble their efforts to try to get to a ceasefire, to try to end the war in Gaza.

The big question right now, Jessica, is whether Benjamin Netanyahu sees it the same way. We heard from him, not too long ago either. And he talked about this as being the beginning of the day after Hamas, but he didn't use the word ceasefire. He didn't commit, for example, to an end to the war.

So what I think we're going to start to see in the coming moments days is real U.S. pressure on Israel to convince Netanyahu that this is a victory for Israel, and this is the time to declare that victory and to work towards a ceasefire and end the war with Hamas in Gaza, because for a long time, American officials have believed that this is the key. The ceasefire deal would unlock all kinds of things, getting those Israeli hostages home, getting vast amounts of desperately needed aid into the Gaza Strip, being able to reach a ceasefire in Lebanon where Hezbollah has said that they are firing on Israel because of its war in Gaza.

You just heard General Patrick Ryder there at the Pentagon talking about the efforts by the U.S. to bomb the Houthis. The Houthis have also started going after ships in the Red Sea and firing on Israel because of the war in Gaza. So it is a key priority right now for the Biden administration to use this moment to try to get to some kind of peaceful diplomatic solution in Gaza -- Jessica.

DEAN: All right. Alex Marquardt with the latest reporting, thank you so much.

You mentioned the Pentagon. I want to dip back in there now and listening.

RYDER: In terms of the opportunities that this presents, you know, I would highlight the President's statement where he highlighted the fact that there is now an opportunity for a day after in Gaza without Hamas in power.

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And so it does present an opportunity here for a ceasefire. It presents an opportunity for the release of all the remaining hostages and of course, we'll continue to work toward that end.

REPORTER: OK. And then secondly, on the B-2 use last night, is there another aircraft that could have carried the munitions that the B-2 delivered? And if so, why use the B-2 instead of something that was closer to the region?

RYDER: Yeah, so a couple of things on that. First of all, in the US military, we have, as you know, we have a wide range of aviation capability that can carry a wide assortment of munitions. The B-2 in particular, though, has a large payload, the ability to operate around the world. As I highlighted in the topper, we can strike anywhere, anytime.

And in this particular strike, using its unique capability and ability to carry a large payload to deliver munitions that could penetrate and strike these deep underground facilities that were storing components that the Houthis have been using. Again, it also sends a very clear message that we can strike targets of this nature anytime, anywhere from around the world.

Thank you. Jennifer?

REPORTER: General Ryder, when was the last time the U.S. had a read on where Sinwar was? And do you still have troops helping with Intel sharing on the ground in Israel?

RYDER: Yeah, so as I'm sure you can appreciate, I'm not going to be able to discuss specific intelligence. As you highlight and as the president's statement highlighted, we have had special operations forces and intelligence personnel supporting Israel's hostage recovery efforts, advising on their hostage recovery efforts since shortly after October 7. And so in that regard, by providing them this information, the Israelis have been able to go after and look for hostages, as well as find those who have been holding them hostage, to include Sinwar.

REPORTER: And in terms of the B-2 strike, had you struck these targets before with other aircraft and munitions and had to go back and use the B-2 or is this a repeat strike?

RYDER: To my knowledge, this was not a repeat strike. Again, this was to go after very specific capabilities that the Houthis were storing deep underground.

REPORTER: Was it a response to the 23 missiles that were fired on September 27th at the US destroyers?

RYDER: This was a response to the continued illegal and reckless action that we see by the Houthis. As you know, this is not the first time that we've struck, but certainly these were unique targets in the sense that they were deep underground targets. Oren?

REPORTER: One question on Israel, one on the B-2s. Did the Special Operations Cell provide any information or intelligence that was used as part of the operations around the killing of Yahya Sinwar?

RYDER: So my understanding, Oren, is that the short answer is no. This was an Israeli operation. US forces were not directly involved. Again, as we've highlighted, we've had a small number of special operations forces that have been advising the Israelis on hostage recovery efforts. And again, as the president's statement highlighted, that included working side by side with their Israeli counterparts to help locate and track Sinwar and other Hamas leaders hiding in Gaza who've been holding people to include Americans, hostage since October 7th last year.

REPORTER: Can you say whether information or intelligence generated by the Special Operations Cell there went into previous killings of Hamas leaders like Mohammed Deif or Issa or others?

RYDER: Again, I'm not going to speak about intelligence other than to say -- just highlight what I just told you, in terms of sharing intelligence and information in support of hostage recovery efforts and tracking those who have been holding individuals to include Americans hostage.

REPORTER: And then just a very quick question on the B-2s. When the Secretary put out a statement last night saying adversaries seeking to essentially place things deep underground in hardened bunkers, you haven't used the word Iran, but that seems a very clear message to Iran and its underground nuclear facilities?

RYDER: Well, as I highlighted in my topper, it was certainly a message to the Houthis and anyone else, potential adversaries that hide things deep underground. It's a message to them as well. Tony?

REPORTER: One of the unique capabilities is that the B-2 can carry the Massive Ordnance Penetrator, the 30,000 pound bomb that can go deep, deep, deep. Was that used in the first time, here, for the first time?

RYDER: Yeah, Tony, so for operational security reasons, I'm just not going to be able to get into the type of ordnance that was employed in this mission. Again, the B-2 is a very versatile aircraft that can carry a wide range of munitions tailored for the particular operation that it's been tasked to do.

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And I'll just leave it there.

REPORTER: OK, on THAAD. Has the THAAD battery arrived, and is it now fully integrated with Israel's air defense systems?

RYDER: So you saw our statement earlier in the week that troops have begun to arrive in Israel and the components have begun to arrive in Israel. It's going to be fully operations capable in the near future. I'm not going to get into the specific dates for Operation Security. I will say that it has been integrated into the Israeli air defense, as well as our broader US efforts regionally to support the defense of Israel.

REPORTER: Navy destroyers possibly or swap data with the Navy destroyers in the Eastern Med for air defense and kind of provide an umbrella?

RYDER: So, the way it works is sort of from a theater standpoint.

DEAN: All right, again, listening to an update from the Pentagon, I want to go back to Alex Marquardt, who's still with us and also bring in Jeremy Diamond, who is joining us live from Tel Aviv.

Jeremy, lets start first with you. What are you hearing from Prime Minister Netanyahu tonight as so many looked to him to see how he -- his next move will be here?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Israeli prime minister is certainly characterizing Yahya Sinwar's death as a landmark moment in this war, but he is also not saying that it will lead to an immediate end to the war.

And the Israeli prime minister making clear that the war is not over yet, but he does hope that it will lead as he said, to the beginning of the end of Hamas's rule in Gaza. And certainly that is one of the major questions now is whether or not the Israeli prime minister will use Sinwar's death as an opportunity to drive Israel towards an end to the war, towards some kind of a ceasefire agreements with Hamas. One that would see the release of the remaining 97 hostages who were taken captive on October 7, and right now, it's really hard to know exactly what the answer to that question is.

But this is an enormous moment and part of that stems from the fact that Sinwar has been so intimately involved solved in every instance of the events of the last year and change. He directed the October 7 attack that killed some 1,200 Israelis. The majority of whom were civilians. He then directed Hamas's military movements in fighting Israeli forces on the ground in Gaza, of the fire bring of rockets towards Israeli towns and cities.

And, of course, he then became the linchpin in so many of these hostage and ceasefire negotiations on Hamas's side, eventually rising to be Hamas's overall leader after Israel assassinated, Hamas's political leader, Ismail Haniyeh, while he was in Tehran. Of course, we know that it's the Israelis as well who have held up progress on those ceasefire and hostage negotiations. But there's no question that the equation has dramatically changed now.

The question is whether these two sides will be able to take advantage of the opportunity presented by Sinwar's killing and whether or not it will actually lead to a fundamental change in the region.

DEAN: Certainly, the major outstanding questions. Alex, I think a lot of people too are wondering who may succeed Sinwar

and what that might look like.

MARQUARDT: Yeah, you know, as we ask this question of how much pressure the U.S. is going to put on Israel to recognize this as a moment for a possible ceasefire. The question is also, what is Hamas going to do next? And there's absolutely no doubt that Israel has delta a crippling blow to Hamas, not just in taking out Yahya Sinwar, but also killing Ismail Haniyeh as Jeremy just mentioned and alongside the military commander inside Gaza and his deputy.

So who takes his place? I mean, Hamas has definitely been an organization in the past who has been quite capable and replacing various commanders and political leaders. It was a bit of a surprise when Haniyeh was killed, that Sinwar was named as the overall leader of Hamas. One name that we keep discussing with our sources is Muhammad Sinwar. So, Yahya Sinwar's brother.

That would not be a good sign for U.S. officials and for Israeli officials because he's believed to essentially be cut from the same cloth to be just as hard line as brother as his brother, and not show and would be expected to not show the kind of willingness to come to the table and now negotiate a ceasefire.

I was told months ago that the U.S. belief was that Sinwar was under significant pressure from his commanders inside Gaza to reach a deal because of all the suffering that was happening in Gaza because of the defeats that they were facing on the battlefield. That clearly did not come to pass.

And, Jessica, there has also been this perception that the political leadership outside of Gaza primarily based in the Qatari capital Doha, that they might be more amenable to a ceasefire deal.

[15:20:05]

One more name I should mention to you is Khalil al-Hayya, he has been leading the negotiations on the outside, but there has always been this major disconnect between the political leadership outside of Gaza and those inside of Gaza. And its been this extraordinarily almost absurd negotiation where you've had obviously Israel on one side and then the people on the other side who are doing the negotiating Sinwar and all the rest are basically underground hiding from Israel, trying, trying to kill them.

So its been a very, very drawn-out, very tortured negotiation, but one that of course, the U.S. hopes now could, in some way get back on track with the death of Sinwar, Jessica.

DEAN: All right. Jeremy Netanyahu making this statement today to reassure hostage family members that no hostages were harmed during the Gaza operations are in harms way, clearly trying to communicate to these families and loved ones that have been an absolute nightmare for over a year now that the hostages were not at risk.

DIAMOND: Yeah, and the reason why he's doing that is because if you are the loved one of someone who's being held hostage in Gaza and you see that Yahya Sinwar has been killed, your first thought is going to be, what if my loved one was being held with him because there was a belief over the course of the last year that Sinwar was surrounding himself with a group of hostages effectively using them as human shields and clearly that does not appear to have been the case at least yesterday in this moment when he was aboveground rather than below ground in Hamas's vast network of tunnels in Gaza.

And so that was aimed at reassuring the families that there were no hostages who were killed along inside Sinwar, the Israeli prime minister is addressing fears though, that amid this potential political vacuum within Hamas, a vacuum of leadership that the hostages lives might be at risk. And this is something that one of my sources raised, which is the notion that without Sinwar -- without a senior leader at the helm of Hamas, what might ensue and said is chaos and chaos could result in the hostages or at least some of the hostages being killed by their captors.

The Israeli prime minister telling those captors tonight that if they release the hostages, they will basically be allowed so to safely leave and if they kill the hostages, he said that the blood will be on their hands and Israel will avenge them.

DEAN: All right. So much more to come on this.

Alex Marquardt and Jeremy Diamond. Thank you very much for your reporting.

Still ahead. We're going to continue to follow the latest on the death of Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar and we're awaiting reaction from U.S. President Joe Biden.

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DEAN: We now return to our major breaking news, Israel saying Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar is dead, Israeli army radio reports, the military detected suspicious movement on the upper floor of a house in Gaza and fired at it with a tank.

Later, a drone scan the area of the attack and soldiers recognize the face of a man they believe to be Sinwar in the rubble. One major fact that remains unclear following Sinwar's potential death is what will happen to the hostages that were captured over a year ago by Hamas.

And according to Qatar's prime minister, there have been no negotiations for a hostage ceasefire deal for almost a month now.

Joining us now to discuss is "Washington Post" columnist Josh Rogin.

Josh, thanks so much for being here.

Just to start us out. Put into context what Sinwar's death means at this particular moment in time. JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Sure, well, it's definitely a major terrorist off of the chessboard. It's a measure of justice for his many Israeli, Palestinian American victims and it is short to tactically disrupt Hamas in the near term. Over the mid to long term, I don't think it changes the trajectory of the conflict much at all, actually.

As you just pointed out, the negotiations were already stalled usually when the top negotiator has killed, that doesn't speed up the negotiations, that actually stalls them more. And if you listen to what Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu said today, he encouraged the world to have patience for what he is predicting will be a longer struggle that continued fighting to be sure Israeli military objectives are not yet reached.

So it's a good thing for a bad person to receive justice, but things are going to get worse in the region before they get better that's my prediction.

DEAN: And in the meantime, President Biden has been briefed on the situation. He is in Germany on a trip. How will Sinwar's death impact his trip?

ROGIN: I don't think it will. You know, the president and Prime Minister Netanyahu don't really talk. We saw that Vice President Harris celebrated the mission, but also called for an end to the war, which is not where the Israeli prime minister or his cabinet is at.

So, essentially, the U.S. position hasn't changed. The Biden administration is reacting to events rather than shaping them all, but they are helping the Israelis on a -- on a military and intelligence level. Biden is in Germany to deal with Ukraine and that's the other war that U.S. is involved in right now. And that one is going really poorly actually. And I think you'll have his hands full dealing with that.

DEAN: And a lot of attention now, of course, turning to the hostages what this could potentially mean for the hostages still being held by Hamas. I hear you when you say things, things could get worse before they get better, that Sinwar's death can add a lot of uncertainty to this situation, but I wanted -- I'm curious what your thoughts are specifically on the prospects of potentially getting the hostages back?

ROGIN: Well, to listen to the Israeli government, their plan is to, you know, keep the military operations going until Hamas gives up. It doesn't seem like that's happening. It doesn't seem like Prime Minister Netanyahu's call for the hostage takers to just hand over the hostages and plea for immunity is going to work.

What a lot of Israelis have been saying is that actually the ceasefire deal is the best way to get the hostages back in that I happen to agree with that and that deal is further -- as far away as it has been in recent months. So that's a sad story for the hostages and their families who are still awaiting. So, you know, it's very possible that these military operations could free hostages. But I think if you talk to most of the hostage families there, they actually say no, the ceasefire deal is the much better way, or at least the way that they would prefer and this doesn't do anything to advance that cause.

DEAN: And so, in terms of a ceasefire deal, a potential ceasefire deal, how did you see -- what would you say is, is there more of a likelihood that that can get done now or do you think that this -- this continues kind of status quo at loggerheads? Or does it depend on to get it takes over Hamas?

ROGIN: Sure, I think it's doubtful that the next leader of Hamas will be a more friendlier or more diplomatically savvy terrorists that's not, doesn't tend to be how these things go. I mean, maybe but I wouldn't bank on that and then the Netanyahu government doesn't seem to be in a deal-making mood either.

They've got operations in northern Gaza that are just kicking off. They've got the Lebanon war. They've got operations against the Houthis in Yemen. They've got ongoing operations throughout Gaza that they are not ready to call to stop and whether or not you believe that the total victory that Netanyahu seeks is possible?

I tend to think that it's poorly defined in probably something that cannot be achieved in the near term. It has to be said that that based on everything we've seen today, that neither side, neither Hamas nor the Israeli government is moving closer to a ceasefire deal. They're both moving away from it.

Wars, all wars end in diplomacy but only when one or both sides are exhausted enough to sue for peace and neither side seems to be at that point quite unfortunately.

DEAN: And then, of course, there's the question I know we touched on it at the top of what the U.S. role is in all of this and increasingly, it has been not much in terms of being able to sway either side to do what they want them to do right?

The Biden administration is a lame duck and President Biden has shown over the past year that he's not willing to use the leverage at his disposal, namely restricting military since the Israel -- military assistance to Israel in order to pressure nothing, he did get to a deal and that's not going to change and Vice President Harris has shown no real intention to change that either. So nothing is going to happen in the Biden administration until at least after the election after that, I think the pressure on them is even less. They even have less incentive to get tough with Netanyahu.

So, that means that right now, the U.S. government is reacting to events rather than shaping them. We saw that in Lebanon, you know, President Biden said in public, he said, don't do it, and they did it. And then afterwards, the White House said, oh, it's a good idea after all, and that's the pattern is the U.S. communicates its wishes. And I think he ignores them and then U.S. goes along in the end and nothing, nothing about that is going to change until we have a new president in January.

DEAN: And we are getting word now that Biden and Netanyahu did speak at following the killing of Sinwar. So we do have that new bit of new information.

Josh Rogin, thank you so much for being here. We appreciate it.

ROGIN: Anytime.

DEAN: Coming up, a closer look at what Sinwar's death means for Hamas. We're going to speak with a retired U.S. Air Force colonel on this momentous moment in the Israel-Hamas war.

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[15:36:30]

DEAN: And recapping our breaking news. Israel's most wanted man is dead. The IDF now confirming the killing of Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar in Gaza today. Sinwar was considered the mastermind of the October 7th attacks.

Israeli army radio saying it's believed he was killed after a tank fired at a house in southern Gaza, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says, quote, evil has been dealt a blow. This huge development in the Israel Hamas war means a lot of uncertainty for Hamas.

And I want to bring in retired U.S. Air Force colonel and CNN military analyst Cedric Leighton.

Cedric, great to have you here.

Lets just start first on what Sinwar's death -- the impact that it could potentially have on Hamas's military.

CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yeah, that's significant, Jessica. It's great to be with you again.

One of the key things about this, Jessica, is that all over the main leadership of Hamas has basically been decimated except for a one or two potentially successors that he may have. But that being said, there's always a chance that somebody that we don't know about could come up through the ranks and become the leader of Hamas. So Hamas is not dead, but they have been dealt a significant blow in from a military perspective, what that really means is that the Israelis are beginning to realize their goal, their strategic goal of eliminating the threat from Gaza that Hamas has posed to Israel, especially in southern Israel. And they're trying to do the same thing with Hezbollah in the north.

But today, they are obviously concentrating on Gaza, on Sinwar and on what has happened with Hamas. And that I think is the most significant aspect of this, right now.

DEAN: And just not militarily, what more is left in your -- in your mind for Israel to do in Gaza?

LEIGHTON: So this is where the problem comes in because, you know, militarily speaking, it looks like if you had just said peace armies, like World War II or something like that, I -- this would be the over now. The problem is that Gaza is completely different war zone and what Gaza is basically like is kind of an urbanized version of Vietnam, I guess would be about the easiest way to explain it.

And by that, I mean, it's a very crowded place. A lot of different areas were terrorists can hide and the Hamas and similar groups, such as Islamic jihad to the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and others like it, they melt -- melt into the population, to the local population. So they will stay active for as long as they possibly can, as long as they get some kind of support usually from Iran, perhaps from other sources.

But that's the kind of thing that Israel has to deal with. So in essence, what we're talking about here is the continuation of this war through guerrilla means. And that is what Israel will be facing, I'm certain within the next few weeks, if not months.

DEAN: And, of course, if we kind of widen the aperture here, we have the other fronts. We have Lebanon, even the Houthis. We have Israel still milling and deciding and putting together what its going to do to respond to Iran's attack.

Put all of that together for us and how it all connects and how you I think this might move forward in the days to come?

LEIGHTON: Yes. So all roads lead to Tehran in this particular case, and the way the Israelis look at this and in this part, I kind of shared their view a lot of the mastermind's behind, a lot of the activities that the Iranian proxies are doing are actually in Tehran. So we're looking at the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, the Quds Force, which is element of that, and, of course, the Iranian intelligence service.

And they are basically working with all of these proxy elements. Now, what has happened is that the proxy elements such as Hamas and Hezbollah and the Houthis, have been dealt a pretty significant blow I just overnight. We had U.S. bombers, B-2 bombers go after the Houthis in Yemen, and that is kind of a war that has been at least a conflict that has been affecting international commerce.

So that's one aspect of it. And every now and then, the Houthis will lob a missile toward Israel, which they've done recently as well with Hamas. You see the decimation of their ranks, at least 18,000 Hamas fighters are purported you have been killed in Gaza because of IDF actions in that area. And then of course with Hezbollah in the north, we had the infamous pager attack, the walkie-talkie attack, and, of course, the death of Nasrallah, the Hezbollah leaders.

So I -- each, in each of these areas with the Israelis have tried to do as they've tried to decimate the leadership as well as the middle ranks and they have been trying to in essence roll back what all of these guerilla forces and proxy forces have been doing in these areas, whether it's Lebanon, whether it's Gaza, whether it's Yemen, and that, of course, is easier for them to do in places that are close to Israel but its still a very difficult proposition for them because all of these elements kind of meld into the background once they're challenged by Israeli ground forces and air forces.

DEAN: All right. Retired U.S. Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton, thank you so much for that analysis. We appreciate it.

LEIGHTON: You bet, Jessica.

DEAN: After a short break, we're going to have more on the death of Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar and what it may mean for the Middle East and beyond.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: As Hamas's top leader is dead, people in Gaza grappling with what the future looks like for them. At least 28 Palestinians were killed this morning in an Israeli airstrike in northern Gaza. Local emergency services say 150 were wounded. This was a school turned shelter in the Jabalia refugee camp. The Palestinian woman inside Gaza telling CNN what Sinwar's death means for her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUHA AL-TURK, PALESTINIAN IN GAZA: We've received the news with great shock because he is our leader and may God have mercy on him. Israel claims that he is one of their targets and that after his assassination, the war will stop. But the war will not stop. They will come up with new justifications. And in the end, they are exterminating civilians, while we are the ones living through the massacres every day.

U.S. President Joe Biden due to arrive in Berlin following news of Sinwar's death and an official says, Mr. Biden has spoken with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu following Sinwar's killing. The president is set for a summit of European leaders.

And I want to bring in CNN senior White House correspondent Kayla Tausche, who is in Berlin.

And, Kayla, I know you have been reporting on this. We also know the Biden-Netanyahu have spoken. What more can you tell us?

KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jessica, according to two sources familiar with the matter, we know that President Biden and Prime Minister Netanyahu spoke on a secure line when the president was aboard Air Force One. He's expected to land here in Berlin momentarily.

What we do not know is the contents of that call and the tone of President Biden and how forceful he was that this death -- this new events should be the off-ramp for a diplomatic solution in the Middle East. We heard earlier today, the national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, tell reporters that Sinwar's removal from the battlefield should bring about a new opportunity to release the hostages still held by Hamas, to bring the war to an end and to get to a day-after scenario where Hamas is no longer ruling Gaza and there can be a new governing coalition.

Of course, that has been the position of the U.S. government for the last several months. And the administration says that Sinwar was an obstacle to the deal, but there had also been opposition from Prime Minister Netanyahu, who wanted to continue prosecuting the war not only in Gaza, but also on other fronts. There is still pending retaliation against Iran for its barrage of ballistic missiles from a few weeks ago. And then there's also the campaign ongoing in Lebanon, the airstrikes in Beirut that have since been paused, as well as the more targeted raids of Hamas and Hezbollah, rather infrastructure in southern Lebanon.

So, there are several fronts in this war, Jessica, and what is unclear is exactly how Prime Minister Netanyahu responded to what we expect is the U.S. is now more forceful position that this needs to be an opportunity that is seized by Israel to find a diplomatic off-ramp to this conflict that's now going on for more than a year, Jess.

DEAN: All right. Kayla Tausche for us there in Berlin, thank you so much for that reporting.

And stay with us for more coverage of Sinwar's death. Just ahead, we're going to talk with Firas Maksad, the director of strategic outreach and senior fellow at the Middle East Institute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:51:05]

DEAN: We are bringing you continuing coverage of the stunning news in the Israel-Hamas war with Israel saying its troops have killed Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar in southern Gaza.

Israel does consider Sinwar to be the mastermind behind last year's brutal October 7th terrorist attacks. His death is now injecting uncertainty into the region with many wondering what it might mean for the fate of the remaining hostages still being held in Gaza.

Firas Maksad joins us now from Washington. He's a senior fellow and senior director during for strategic outreach at the Middle East institute.

Thanks so much for being here with us. Nice to have you.

I just want to start first broadly, as someone who is an expert in this and studies it and his kind of analyzed this. Where do you see this moment? Help us put into context what Sinwar's death means.

FIRAS MAKSAD, DIRECTOR OF STRATEGIC OUTREACH, MIDDLE EAST INSTITUTE: Sure. Of course, Jessica, this is no doubt a fork in the road for Israel and the region. This is -- Yahya Sinwar was the mastermind of the October 7 attacks on Israel that left some 1,200 Israelis dead. It then followed a year of fighting that have less than 40,000 plus Palestinians dead. So that mans journey has finally come to an end and today it really is

also a moment of truth for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Are his priorities to begin de-escalating in Gaza and in Lebanon, is it really his objective to release those 101 Israeli hostages still held in Gaza and also to begin to deescalate with Hezbollah and Lebanon?

Or is there a moment perhaps that he sees that he wants to reset the table in the Middle East and readdress the balance of power with Iran, thereby continuing to take this war and to persecute this war against it and its proxies. So this is, in many ways double-edge sword for Benjamin Netanyahu when we clearly here now the American administration, whether it's, you know, Kamala Harris or the national security advisor Jake Sullivan saying, this is the time to take the off-ramp, the diplomatic off-ramp, and start talking about the day after.

DEAN: Yeah. But to your point, it's the question is, can you get both sides participating it to take that off ramp, right, to start talking about the day after. What do you make of the U.S. relationship to all of this right now, just going and expanding on that point, we know that Biden and Netanyahu have spoken, but what you see as the U.S. role at this point?

MAKSAD: Well, we know that what's said in public is different. That would then what's said in private. The two men, Biden and Bibi have an acrimonious relationship quite a few expletives have been used by President Biden in describing Benjamin Netanyahu.

The administration is not at with Netanyahu is carrying out this war during an election year where Israel obviously is a domestic consideration for them. This is not helping Kamala Harris in the polls. So I think we will see some pressure from the administration on Netanyahu to begin to take the off ramp, negotiated for the release of these hostages. And not pursue the wider objective of really trying to reshape the Middle East in a risky fashion.

Certainly the upcoming an expected Israeli retaliation against Iran is going to loom large in all this. I think Sinwar's killing might help lead us toward de-escalation in Gaza and even in Lebanon, but I don't think its going to have an impact in the coming escalatory cycle with Iran.

DEAN: Yeah. I mean, that was kind of my question to you next, which is as we anticipate whatever Israel is going to do with Iran what, how does it all kind of go together? And I hear you when you're saying that perhaps this could help de-escalate on that front as well?

MAKSAD: Yeah. I mean, let's touch upon Lebanon very quickly here.

[15:55:02]

Hezbollah is hurting. Its military leadership has largely been decapitated by Israel. It's on its back foot. It's itching for a ceasefire. However, it's been in this catch-22 situation. It's premised the ceasefire in Lebanon on one in Gaza. So, if the killing of Sinwar allows Israel to basically call an end to all major military operations in Gaza, that gives Hezbollah an easy way out to then accept the ceasefire in Lebanon. There could be a diplomatic process that unfolds from there.

Iran is a whole different animal here and clearly after the last Iranian missile attack on Israel, Israel is determined to response. I think this will probably be a multi-stage campaign as perhaps more significant, but more contained one. To start after, before the U.S. elections, therefore, perhaps not angering Kamala Harris and President Biden too much, but then one has to anticipate the Iranian reaction and that will then create an opportunity for perhaps Benjamin Netanyahu going after the nuclear sites and some of the energy infrastructure in Iran, in a wholesale passion.

So this will be with us, and I don't think that this will be impacted much by Sinwar's killing.

DEAN: Yeah. More to come on this.

Firas Maksad, thank you so much for your time today and for your analysis. We really appreciate it.

And stay with us. We're going to continue to cover this breaking news of Yahya Sinwar's death.

Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Jessica Dean in New York.

"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.