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Israel-Hamas War Mastermind Killed, End of the Conflict Now in Sight; Trump Blasts Harris for Not Attending a Charity Dinner; Fans and Loved Ones of Liam Payne Were Shocked by the Famous Singer's Death; Stargazers Witnessed This Year's October Supermoon in the Night Sky. Aired 3-4a ET

Aired October 18, 2024 - 03:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[03:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to all of you watching us around the world. I'm Kim Brunhuber. This is "CNN Newsroom."

The alleged mastermind behind the October 7th attacks on Israel is dead, according to Israeli officials. We'll look at how that could determine what happens next in Gaza.

U.S. Vice President Kamala Harris skips a traditional charity dinner, opting to campaign in critical states, while her opponent, former President Donald Trump, criticizes her absence.

And President Joe Biden will meet with leaders in Europe to discuss Ukraine's plan for victory over Russia.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Live from Atlanta, this is "CNN Newsroom" with Kim Brunhuber.

BRUNHUBER: And we start with what could be a pivotal moment in the year-long Israel-Hamas war. The killing of Yahya Sinwar, the militant group's hardline leader. Now it came as a surprise to many, including Israel and the U.S., since his death wasn't part of a targeted operation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): Today, evil has suffered a heavy blow, but the task before us is not yet complete. To the dear families of the hostages, I say, this is an important moment in the war. We will continue with all our strength until the return home of all of your loved ones who are our loved ones.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Sinwar, who took over Hamas in August, is the alleged architect of the October 7th terror attacks. He hasn't been seen in public since before then, and he was believed to be hiding underground in Gaza's tunnels.

Now, we just want to warn you what we're about to show you is graphic. It's images of his remains. Now, his body was found Thursday in a pile of debris in the southern city of Rafah. Israeli authorities say they used dental records and DNA to confirm his identity, but CNN can't verify it's actually him. No word yet from Hamas.

Now the Israeli military released video that it says shows some of Sinwar's final moments. It was filmed by a drone that entered a damaged building where a person, who the IDF says is Sinwar, was sitting on a chair. He's turned away with his face concealed and his hand injured. He then appears to throw a piece of wood towards the drone.

All right, I want to bring in Ivan Watson. So Ivan, take us through the latest on what we're learning about the death and then looking forward, what impact do you think this will have on the war and the region at large?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right, well, this was not a targeted assassination. It was somewhat of a routine patrol of Israeli troops in the south of Gaza, in the area of Rafah. And there was an exchange of fire on Wednesday.

And in the aftermath of that, that's where the drone, the Israeli military says, captured Sinwar's last moments alive before a tank round was fired into that building that ultimately killed him.

He wasn't really identified, from what we understand, until the very next day. He was found in possession, the Israeli military says, of a gun and around 40,000 shekels, Israeli shekels in currency. That's more than $10,000.

Israelis say that he was trying to move north through Gaza. The Israeli prime minister, in his kind of victory speech, said that this was proof that he had the right strategy when he sent Israeli troops into Rafah over the objections of the Biden administration.

President Biden has said that the world is a better place now with Yahya Sinwar killed, but he also says now is the time for diplomacy and a ceasefire. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: Now is the time to move on. Move on, move toward a ceasefire in Gaza, make sure that we move in the direction that we're going to be in a position to make things better for the whole world. It's time for this war to end, and bring the hostages home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATSON: And while Netanyahu in his address did talk about the need to get the hostages home, he made a call, an appeal to Hamas militants to lay down their weapons and release hostages. There are still more than 100 that are believed to be in Hamas' hands. He said they would be allowed to live if they released them. He also made it clear that the war is not over yet.

[03:04:57]

So we're not getting any signs yet that the Israeli government and military are going to let up their pressure, which has resulted in the deaths of more than 42,000 people in Gaza alone over more than a year now.

And while there have been calls kind of praising the Israeli military on killing the man who's believed to be an architect of the October 7 attacks, Kim, then we also hear from the Iranian government, its mission to the United Nations, which has a starkly different response to Sinwar's deaths, calling him a martyr in a tweet and saying that the fact that he'd went down essentially fighting would make him an inspiration for generations to come. Kim?

BRUNHUBER: Alright, on that note then in terms of sort of inspiring resistance for Hamas itself, what happens next and do we know who might succeed Sinwar?

WATSON: We don't know, because the Israelis have been successful at killing top officials. I mean, you had the assassination of the political leader of Hamas a number of months ago in the Iranian capital Tehran, Ismail Haniyeh. And now, you have Sinwar killed, who was holding both roles, military commander and political commander after Haniyeh was killed.

We have some names of some other officials mostly living in exile right now, but don't know how much coordination there will be within Hamas given the level of destruction in Gaza alone to kind of organize any kind of transfer of power.

But make no mistake, throughout the history of Israel and its occupation of Palestinian territories, its ongoing conflicts and spasms of violence with Hamas, it has succeeded in killing generation after generation of Hamas leader. The movement is still there. It killed a couple of weeks ago assassinated the leader of the Lebanese militia, Hassan Nasrallah, the Hezbollah leader.

And yet Hezbollah continues to fire dozens of projectiles into northern Israel every day and continues to kill Israeli soldiers who have invaded into southern Lebanon. So the killing of a leader is a is it is a blow it may remove and negotiating partner when it comes to trying to release hostages or reaches ceasefire but it doesn't seem to and the ongoing conflict

BRUNHUBER: Yeah exactly right. Ivan Watson, thanks so much. I appreciate that.

Well, it's not yet clear how the death of Yahya Sinwar will impact talks to reach a ceasefire and release of the hostages in Gaza. One official in the Israeli government tells CNN Sinwar's death would help efforts to secure a hostage deal, but others are warning that uncertainty over who would succeed Sinwar could also make things more complicated and put the hostages at risk. I want to bring in Nada Bashir, who's tracking the latest

developments. So Nada, how might Sinwar's death affect Israeli discussions about a hostage deal?

NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, in the wake of the news of his death, Kim, there had been some discussions around the possibility of this potentially being an off-ramp for the Israeli government, an opportunity for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to paint Sinwar's death as a victory of some sorts for the Israeli military, for the Israeli government, an opportunity to essentially move forward perhaps with a political negotiated solution with the Israeli government able to frame this as the victory that they have been looking for over the last now more than year of war.

But of course, what we've been hearing from officials in Israel suggests that may not necessarily be the case. And in fact, we did hear yesterday from the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu very clearly saying that the war is not over. The Israeli government still adamant, of course, on ensuring the return of all hostages. And there are questions as to what this will mean for the safety of hostages.

And of course, as you heard there in Ivan's reporting, there are also questions around who perhaps takes the leadership role of Hamas, now who would be considered second in command to step in to fill the role of Yahya Sinwar, the possibility of, of course, chaos within Hamas' upper ranks as well.

And of course, what we've seen in Hamas over the last year is a shift in how power is structured. Of course, this is, or had been a very decentralized organization, but over the course of the war, power has been centralized in the hands, particularly of Yahya Sinwar, who was clearly on the ground there in Gaza.

But of course there are still questions as to whether we may see the Israeli military taking this as an opportunity to instead double down. We have seen them of course now claiming victory in the killing of Yahya Sinwar.

We have seen other senior figures in Hamas killed including Ismail Haniyeh in July, former Hamas political chief, Salah al-Aruri in Beirut in January, the deputy political chief of Hamas. And of course, Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Hezbollah in Lebanon, killed just a short while ago as well.

[03:10:09]

We've seen the Israeli military continue to push forward in Lebanon as well, not only carrying out airstrikes across the country, but of course also a ground incursion in the south.

So whether this will be an opportunity for the Israeli military, for the Israeli government to double down on their efforts, we know of course that the Israeli government and Prime Minister Netanyahu, particularly the more far-right elements of his cabinet have called for the war to continue until all their goals are achieved, namely the full eradication of Hamas. But of course, important to remember and underscore, there is still mounting international pressure on the Israeli government to come to some sort of negotiated solution, whether world leaders, including Israel's close ally of the United States, will be able to pressure the Israeli government to see this as an opportunity to focus more on the political and negotiated possibilities of a resolution. That, it remains to be seen. It'll certainly be a focus for leaders over the coming days.

BRUNHUBER: Absolutely and that was certainly suggested in President Biden's short comments about that. We'll see whether that bears fruit. Nada Bashir, thank you so much, I appreciate that.

Now for more on this I want to bring in Gershon Baskin who's a former hostage negotiator and the Middle East director of the International Communities Organization. He joins me now from Madrid. Thanks so much for being here with us. So on the hostages certainly there is hope that the elimination of Sinwar might create an opening for a deal for the hostages. You think that's likely?

GERSHON BASKIN, FORMER HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR AND MIDDLE EAST DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITIES ORGANIZATION: I think that there are opportunities here that need to be examined very seriously and very quickly by both Israel and Hamas.

For Israel, there might be an opportunity to encourage people who are holding hostages to free them in exchange for a free passage out of Gaza and a bundle of money. For Hamas, they need to understand that this might be the golden opportunity to end the war if they're willing to make a deal that will release all the hostages quickly.

And also, as Hamas has indicated to me in the past weeks, that they are willing for Gaza to be ruled by civilian professional technocratic government that they are not a part of. There is chaos within the Hamas movement, and the chaos both in Gaza and in the exiled leadership could lead to a horrible situation where individuals who are holding hostages could decide to execute them.

There is no clear line of chain of command today in Gaza, and discipline could easily break down. And we have to think about those scenarios as well, not only the positive opportunities that might exist, but that it also could lead to the death of Israeli hostages.

BRUNHUBER: Yeah, that's certainly the worst case scenario for them. You talk about this window to make a deal, but I mean the question is who do you make a deal with if the leaders are all dead?

BASHKIN: The leaders are not all dead. There is the exiled leadership mainly in Doha and Qatar, and it seems that Khalid Mashal, who's very experienced at leading this movement because he's done it before, will assume power, at least temporarily. And it was through the Hamas Politburo, their political leadership, that a deal needs to be made.

The test will be if they can impose any kind of agreement on whoever remains in Gaza. The military forces in Gaza, some of them still remain. The brother of Yahya Sinwar, who was killed, is still in Gaza. He's one of the leaders of the military command of Hamas. He's very brutal, as we know, as his brother was, but he does seem to command a lot of forces within the Gaza Strip.

BRUNHUBER: Yeah, I guess that's the question. If it's contingent on who takes over, if, as you say, his brother takes over, I mean, I imagine little will have actually changed on the ground, right?

BASHKIN: Well, what will change is that his brother, Mohammed Zemwar, is not a member of the political leadership, whereas Yahya Sinwar both led the political leadership and the military command. Mohammed Zemwar is only the military command.

And Hamas is known to be a very disciplined movement. When their political leadership makes a decision, it is imposed usually on the military command as well. It's not a separate organization. They are one organization.

And as I said, if Khalid Mashal is the person who at least temporarily takes over, then he has led this movement before and he knows everyone in Sharon knows him, he's respected within the movement. The question is, Khalid Mashal be the person who's willing to make a deal with Israel right now that we don't know and that's what needs to be tested.

BRUNHUBER: And the fundamental problem might still remain. I mean the hummus doesn't want to give up the hostages without Israel withdrawing from Gaza and Netanyahu refuses to withdraw.

BASHKIN: Well, I think here is the big question. Is there a deal that's doable on the table that guarantees that the hostages will all return and that the government in Gaza on the day after the war will no longer be Hamas? If those two elements can be guaranteed in the agreement, then Israel can withdraw from Gaza.

[03:15:01]

What Israel needs to understand also is that the Israeli government is not going to withdraw from Gaza is that October 7th of last year wouldn't have happened if there had been 15 Israeli tanks on the ground and three helicopters in the air. It's not as if Israel's facing the Russian army. And today Hamas' military is pretty much decimated.

So Israel needs to protect its border from its border. The Hamas needs to understand that if they continue to shoot rockets into Israel, then Israel will re-enter Gaza. There will be nothing to prevent Israel from doing that if the threat from Hamas continues.

Hamas needs to think about the more than two million people in Gaza today who are homeless, who have no places to go back to, who are living in tents without sanitation and fresh water and lacking food and medicine. Schools have been destroyed.

The whole entire Gaza Strip is destroyed. And Hamas needs to determine whether or not they are an important element to the Palestinian people that they will make the decision which is best for the Palestinian people at this time. They have put the Palestinian issue back on the agenda. This is their great achievement of the last year while Gaza has been destroyed.

BRUNHUBER: Yeah, so much still in the air. I really appreciate getting your expertise, Gershon Baskin, in Madrid. Thank you so much.

BASHKIN: Thank you.

BRUNHUBER: President Kamala Harris made multiple campaign stops Thursday in Wisconsin, a critical blue wall state. She slammed Donald Trump's comments on women's health care issues, saying the rival, quote, "has no idea what he's talking about."

CNN's Eva McKend is there in Wisconsin with more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

EVA MCKEND, CNN U.S. NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: At her Green Bay rally, Vice President Harris centering the issue of reproductive rights, arguing that the former president has created the conditions in this country that have led to women dying from sepsis. She also chided the former president for characterizing himself as the father of IVF, saying that he instead has put women's lives in danger and argued more broadly that he doesn't know what he's talking about. Take a listen.

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS (D), U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Is responsible for it being at risk in the first place. And what is sadly, what is sadly interesting, I think, is that when you listen to Donald Trump talk, it becomes increasingly clear, I think. He has no idea what he's talking about.

MCKEND: The vice president maintaining that she is the underdog in this contest, leaning on Wisconsinites to make a plan to vote. Early voting begins in this state next week, and same-day voter registration is an option as well. Wisconsin voters, who haven't registered to vote, can still show up on election day and participate in the process.

Eva McKend, CNN, Green Bay, Wisconsin.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: Meanwhile, Donald Trump attended the Al Smith charity dinner for Catholics in New York on Thursday night, and he slammed Harris for skipping the event and sending a video message instead. Trump called her absence disrespectful, saying it's a tradition for both presidential nominees to show up. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They call me weird. They call JD weird. We're very solid people. This guy is calling us weird, but this was weird that the Democrat candidate is not here with us tonight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: The former president gave a speech full of jokes, taking jabs at prominent Democrats, including Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, who was seated next to the podium. Trump also made fun of his legal troubles.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It's a true pleasure to be with you this evening. Amazing pleasure. And these days it's really a pleasure anywhere in New York without a subpoena for my appearance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: All right, coming up here on "CNN Newsroom", U.S. President Joe Biden arrives in Germany for major talks on aid for Ukraine. More on that coming up. Stay with us.

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BRUNHUBER: U.S. President Joe Biden is in Germany where he's set to meet its leaders at the top of the hour. He'll first talk with Germany's president and chancellor and receive the country's Order of Merit Award. Later, he's scheduled to hold talks with leaders of the so-called European Quad, which also includes Britain and France.

Among other things, they'll discuss what Ukraine calls its Victory Plan, unveiled by President Volodymyr Zelenskyy on Wednesday. Some allies were at odds over how to respond to his plan, which calls for an invitation for Kiev to join NATO.

But as allies debate their response, Zelenskyy is pitching his plan to the European Union and NATO. He was in Brussels on Wednesday where he spoke at the summit of E.U. leaders and a meeting of NATO defense ministers. The alliance has promised to allow Ukraine to join, but the timeline isn't clear. That's partly because of concerns that Ukraine's full membership could pit NATO directly against Moscow. But Zelenskyy said it's time to walk the walk. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): All the time, they believed that NATO was drawing the alliance in the war. Even the invitation of Ukraine to NATO is like such red lines. In my opinion legally, no, and it is unfair. If you really want and not just say that Ukraine will be in NATO and it is very important for the security of the European continent, then it should coincide with actions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: And for more, we're joined from Berlin by Matthew Karnitschnig, the Chief Europe Correspondent for "Politico". Thanks so much for being here with us. I Appreciate it. So I want to start there. Surely NATO is still a non-starter, but in terms of Zelenskyy's victory plan, are there more realistic tasks that might be an easier sell?

MATTHEW KARNITSCHNIG, CHIEF EUROPE CORRESPONDENT, "POLITICO": Well, I think in the immediate term, what they're going to be discussing today in Berlin and Keir Starmer, the U.K. prime minister, is also going to join that meeting and French President Emmanuel Macron later today.

And I think they're going to be looking for ways to help Ukraine in the coming months, because as we've all heard, they're really under pressure on the front lines. They need more ammunition. They need more of anything, of everything. And they're running out of -- of funds and equipment so I'd -- I think there's going to be a lot of discussion about how they can get them over the hump in the coming weeks and months before winter sets in.

And of course all eyes are on November 5th in the United States and what happens with the American presidential election.

BRUNHUBER: Yeah. I want to ask you about that a little bit later but just on the actual tasks here. You know, President Biden has been very supportive of course more supportive than other allies. So what kind of sort of stiffer headwinds are there in terms of convincing the other leaders?

KARNITSCHNIG: The United States plays the key role here and has, from the beginning, and in fact the German Chancellor Olaf Scholz has always oriented himself on what President Biden is doing in terms of providing aid to Ukraine, be it specific weapons systems such as tanks or cruise missiles, et cetera.

But there is one red line for the Germans now, at least as Olaf Scholz has articulated it, which are these longer range missiles that could potentially even reach Moscow, which he doesn't want to hand over to Ukraine, the German cruise missile system, the Taurus system.

And this is something that Ukraine would really like to have. It doesn't look like that's going to happen anytime soon. So I think that the biggest ask right now is just more ammunition, more money to get Ukraine through the rest of the year.

[03:25:01]

And, you know, the United States has already provided almost 60 billion euros in aid to Ukraine, in military aid to Ukraine. The Germans have provided about 11 billion, and the other Europeans much less. So there is more room there, many would argue, on the European side, to do more. So I suspect that it's going to be President Biden as well asking the Europeans here once again to step up and to fill this gap.

BRUNHUBER: Yeah. You talked about there being a time pressure here, not just on the battlefield, but in terms of support for Ukraine, that political pressure here in the U.S., is there that sense that this is kind of a last chance now if Donald Trump wins the election, you know, a couple of months from now, it would be Trump and his allies controlling the purse strings and this is a Donald Trump who said just the other day that Zelenskyy should never have let that war start?

KARNITSCHNIG: That's right. And former President Trump has also said that he would see to it that there's a peace deal between Ukraine and Russia within 24 hours, which to many years can mean only one thing, that he would force Ukraine to basically back down and threaten them with pulling all support, which would leave Zelenskyy possibly with no other option if it were to lose the backing of the United States.

So I think, you know, this is why there is a lot of nervousness here in Europe right now that if Trump wins, that the entire, you know, operation there, that they've spent so much time funding over the past couple of years, and it's very strategically important for Europe obviously what's happening in Ukraine, not to mention for Ukraine itself.

So I think they're also going to be discussing ways, things that Biden might be able to do before he leaves the presidency in January of 2025 to continue to help Ukraine during this so-called lame duck period.

BRUNHUBER: Yeah, so much on the line right now. Matthew Karnitschnig in Berlin, great to see you again. Thank you so much.

KARNITSCHNIG: Thank you.

BRUNHUBER: We have more on our top story after a quick break. Israel has achieved a key military goal of its war in Gaza with the killing of Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar. We'll have a look at his legacy next.

And an Israeli airstrike hit a shelter inside a Gaza refugee camp, killing dozens of people. While the Israeli military is defending the deadly attack. Next here on CNN, stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[03:30:00]

BRUNHUBER: Welcome back to all of you watching us around the world. I'm Kim Brunhuber. This is "CNN Newsroom".

The Killing of Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar is raising hopes and fears for the hostages still being held in Gaza. Protesters in Tel Aviv reacted to the reports of Sinwar's death. Some were saying it presents an opportunity for a hostage deal and end to the war.

Others expressed worry over the uncertainty in the conflict. But they stood united as they called for all hostages to be released immediately and urged officials to reach an agreement to bring their loved ones home. Sources tell CNN Israel confirmed Sinwar's death with DNA testing and dental records Hamas hasn't yet commented.

Israel's prime minister says the killing of Sinwar marks the beginning of the day after Hamas for the people of Gaza. Israel's military chief said on Thursday the world is now a quote "better place without Sinwar" and the U.S. defense secretary called his killing a major achievement in counter-terrorism.

More now from CNN's Nic Robertson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): Once dubbed by the IDF a dead man walking, the IDF says these are Yahya Sinwar's final moments, recorded by a drone in the Gaza house where he died. According to the IDF he was discovered during a routine patrol, the building hit by tank fire, his body spotted in the rubble.

YOAV GALLANT, ISRAELI DEFENSE MINISTER (through translator): Sinwar died while beaten, persecuted and on the run. He didn't die as a commander, but as someone who only cared for himself.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): In life, Sinwar had cultivated a tough image, feared and fettered at home in Gaza. Universally reviled by Israelis, vilified for his leading role in Hamas' brutal October 7th slaughter of at least 1,200 people in Israel. Journalist Ehud Yaari was one of the few Israelis who met him.

EHUD YAARI, ISRAELI JOURNALIST: When I was talking to him, he always insisted that we speak Hebrew and not Arabic.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Yaari interviewed Sinwar four times, while the terror leader was in jail, convicted of playing a role in the killing of two Israelis and four suspected Palestinian informers.

YAARI: He was ruthless. He used to send people to kill those prisoners, whom he suspected of passing information to the intelligence of the prison service.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Born in a Gaza refugee camp to parents who fled their home in what is now Israel, in 1948, following the Jewish state's creation, Sinwar's cause was to reverse those land losses.

Hamas was the vehicle to do it. He rose through its ranks as an enforcer becoming Gaza leader in 2017, his message uncompromising. During fighting in 2021, the IDF bombed his house. A week later, at a rare press conference, he goaded the IDF to take a second shot, saying he would walk home. His luck finally running out now.

In Israel, people are celebrating, the prime minister warning them. It may be premature. The fight with Hamas not done, offering them survival or be chased down like Sinwar.

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): I call on everyone who holds our hostages, whoever lays down his weapon and returns our hostages, we will allow him to go out and live.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Hostage families again, calling for Netanyahu to get their loved ones home at any price.

Sinwar may be dead. But the politics of both sides hasn't changed. It's far from clear Hamas will listen to Netanyahu. And far from clear, Netanyahu will cede to U.S. wishes. Make this the moment to end the Gaza War.

Nic Robertson, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: And joining me now from London is Fawaz Gerges, who's a professor of international relations at the London School of Economics and author of "What Really Went Wrong? The West and the Failure of Democracy in the Middle East." Thank you so much for joining us again here. So first, while some Palestinians in Gaza feel Sinwar is a hero, will there be relief in Gaza itself at the news of his death, do you think after all, it's his October 7 attack has resulted in so much death and destruction in Gaza?

FAWAZ GERGES, PROFESSOR OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS, LONDON SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS: I doubted very much. Some Palestinians, of course, are very critical at Hamas and Sinwar that might take on based on what I have, what I know and what I have seen and what I have read.

[03:35:00]

Sinwar for millions of Palestinians is an iconic figure. In fact many Palestinians say in the past 24 hours that Sinwar met a heroic end; he fought as a soldier and died alongside his soldiers. And the last moment many Palestinians celebrate the courageous stand of Sinwar because as you know, Kim, Israel has repeatedly portrayed -- portrayed Sinwar as a cowardly leader basically hiding underground surrounded by hostages and yet the last moment that is life.

He was even, he stared the Israeli drones, which was basically he was injured, and he threw a piece of wood at the drone. And I think the last moment of his life, for many Palestinians, will see Sinwar as another major, you know, iconic leader of Palestinian movement, even though he was the mastermind of a horrible attack on Israel on the 7th of October.

BRUNHUBER: But then given that, I'm wondering, we heard both Biden and Netanyahu using almost the exact same words, opportunity now for a day after for Gaza without Hamas in power. Is that realistic?

GERGES: Well, first of all, Kim, let's have a clarity about what Israeli Prime Minister said yesterday. He said the war goes on. He wants total victory over Hamas. He wants Hamas to surrender and he wants Hamas to exit Gaza, period. So for Netanyahu, the war, the killing of Sinwar does not really end the war, because he wants it all.

He wants surrender on the part of Hamas. And both, I think, Benjamin Netanyahu and the American president celebrating the killing of Sinwar, regardless of how the Palestinians and the Israelis regard Sinwar. But I think very prematurely, Hamas has already morphed into a guerrilla force. I mean look at where they found a Sinwar. He was not surrounded by hundreds of fighters. He was along with two of his soldiers.

Hamas now is basically, is no longer really a top-down centralized movement. It's basically acting as independent units all over Gaza. So this is a guerrilla war and Hamas will fight a guerrilla war for as long as they have ammunition and arms. It faces two major problems. Leadership, will Hamas be able to really replace a Sinwar being the most iconic figure within the Hamas movement and will Hamas be able to have enough arms and ammunition to fight a prolonged asymmetrical warfare with Israel these are the challenges facing Hamas now.

BRUNHUBER: Yeah and the answer might be provided by Iran. So I want to turn to the wider region. How you think is death is being greeted in the Middle East and specifically Iran? How -- does this maybe give them an off-ramp here, they have to be seen to send a message to Israel for the benefit of their other proxies in the region?

GERGES: Well if you want to know what Iran thinks? Iran said that the killing of a Sinwar will strengthen the resistance movement, the spirit of resistance. So, you have another war taking place between Israel and Lebanon. Israel has invaded Lebanon. You have another from in the occupied West Bank.

And now, you and I, we're talking about the risks of a direct war between Israel and Iran. So the reality is, without a ceasefire in Gaza, without ending the war in Gaza, I doubted very much whether we're going to see de-escalation.

We are all are waiting for what kind of attacks Israel will basically carry against Iran in the next few hours, in the next few days. This could really precipitate a counter attack on the part of Iran, and here we are, all-out regional war, not just in Gaza and Lebanon and the West Bank between Iran and Israel.

So the Middle East now really is a tinderbox at the brink of a catastrophic all-out regional war. And there are no adults in the room, Kim. Where are the adults that they really put out the fires? You have only arsonists who are pouring gasoline on a raging fire in the region.

BRUNHUBER: Well, the U.S. has tried in a tepid way, I suppose, to try and put out those flames. In terms of that U.S. role historically, I mean, this shuttle diplomacy, it's always more effective when it's accompanied by clear consequences for noncompliance, which is something the Biden administration so far has failed to do as regards Israel.

[03:39:57]

So do you think that with Sinwar's death, the Biden administration would have more leeway, perhaps, to enforce its will now that they can say, listen, you've killed the architect of October 7th now, as President Biden kind of hinted in his comments, that it is time to end this?

GERGES: Well, look, if you let me be a bit more cynical, Kim, because I'm an academic and I say the truth as I understand it and I know it. I think if you ask me whether the Biden administration wants a ceasefire in Gaza, absolutely yes. He has been urging and pleading with Israel for the past few months for a ceasefire. He has failed. The Biden administration has failed, colossal failure. Why? Because the Biden administration has not really used leverage in order to convince or to nudge or to pressure Netanyahu. It's feeding the wool. It's protecting Benjamin Netanyahu. It has used its vetoes in the Security Council. So the Americans are really not playing the firefighters. On the contrary, the Americans are providing the arms, the ammunition, the bombs, and also the intelligence, the information.

Jack Sullivan, yesterday, celebrated the fact that American intelligence have helped Israel pin down Palestinian leaders, Hamas leaders, and kill him. So yes and no. The Biden administration means well. But it really is not playing, it's not acting like the big dog. The tail, Israel, wags the dog. And this is the predicament now.

And that's why I say we don't really have adults in the room. We don't have, we have a vacuum of global leadership. We have no firefighters. And that's why I'm concerned about the risk of all out regional conflict between Iran and Israel in the next few days and next few weeks.

BRUNHUBER: And we'll see whether any of that changes. We'll have to leave it there. Fawaz Gerges, in London. Thank you so much. I appreciate talking to you.

GERGES: Thanks.

BRUNHUBER: Well, unfortunately, there's no respite from the destruction in Gaza. Palestinian emergency services say at least 28 people were killed on Thursday in an Israeli airstrike on a school that housed a shelter in northern Gaza.

Officials say the few remaining staff at one of the last operating hospitals in Gaza are treating more than 150 people wounded at the Abu Hussein School in the Jabalia refugee camp. Israel says the strike targeted a command and control center used by Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists.

Emergency officials and humanitarian agencies have repeatedly warned of dire food and medicine shortages in parts of northern Gaza. Experts say acute malnutrition can be expected to rise over the winter, and it's a worry shared by the people of Gaza.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SIHAM ZAYID, DISPLACED PALESTINIAN (through translator): When I look at her I think I might lose her because there is no medical care here these days we've gone through it all. I hope God will heal her.

SULIMAN AZAB, GAZA RESIDENT (through translator): The hardest thing is feeling alone. I feel like no one is helping me. I feel alone and lost in life. We were forced to live in tents with no food or water. We didn't know how to manage. I have five children, three boys and two girls.

We had a child during the war. It was a big struggle, especially in terms of milk and other necessities that were unavailable. After the soldiers withdrew from our area, we returned to our house, but we were shocked condition and on the verge of collapse. Still, we decided to stay in it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: A new report by experts from 16 U.N. agencies and NGOs predicts 350,000 people in Gaza will face catastrophic levels of hunger in the coming months. And aid groups say more has to be done.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTOINE RENARD, WORLD FOOD PROGRAMME COUNTRY DIRECTOR: Any improvements in food security we see are a result of the amount of humanitarian aid and commercial flows entering Gaza with local food systems destroyed and farms damaged, people are completely dependent on supplies coming through the border.

For real progress, this flow of aid must be steady and reliable. Nearly 2 million people in Gaza still face the risk of famine, and that risk will persist unless all border crossings remain open and aid continues to reach those in need.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: The U.S. State Department says 50 humanitarian aid trucks were allowed into Gaza from Jordan on Wednesday. But the Biden administration is threatening to withdraw military aid from Israel if at least 350 trucks can't enter the area every day.

In a slowing economy, many of China's delivery drivers are working harder but earning less ahead. Why their frustrations are sometimes boiling over? Stay with us.

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[03:45:00]

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BRUNHUBER: -- the problematic property market are slowing growth. Various sectors are being hit, including China's huge takeout and food delivery industry.

Marc Stewart joins us now live from Beijing with the details. So Marc, that problem experienced by the food delivery drivers, just a symptom of a wider economic malaise. So take us through what's behind this and how China's trying to correct it.

MARC STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, Kim, if we look at GDP numbers that were released just hours ago here in Beijing, the Chinese economy only grew by 4.6 percent in the third quarter. And it's a result of many different factors. It's a result of a housing industry, a housing sector that has been in crisis.

It's the result of people spending less money. And no industry is really immune from this. It could be clothing stores. It could be household furnishing stores that are all dealing with, as you mentioned, this consumer, this economic malaise.

And it also includes the food delivery industry, which is very popular in China. Of course, companies are seeing smaller orders, and for the men and women who hit the streets of Beijing and other cities across China, it's a real struggle as well.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEWART (voice-over): Food delivery drivers in China packing up hot meals and hot temperance. This driver breaks down after getting a negative customer review. Another driver snaps as police stop him for running a red light.

Both episodes could mean a cut in their pay linked to on-time delivery and customer satisfaction. It's a job that keeps drivers on their feet and on the street as they battle the bustle, including here in Beijing. Safety isn't the only struggle.

STEWART: What about customers? Are they ever rude to you?

YONG, FOOD DELIVERY DRIVER (through translator): There are all kinds of customers. It's difficult to avoid.

STEWART (voice-over): We followed 35-year-old Yong as he navigated the lunchtime rush.

STEWART: Is this a good way to make a living?

YONG (through translator): I think it's fine, but not as easy as before. More people are doing the same job.

STEWART: This is big business. Last year, there were about 12 million delivery drivers on the road. It's a number that's been growing.

STEWART (voice-over): Last year, industry giant Meituan saw its revenue climb 26 percent year on year to more than $10 billion. Yet paychecks are shrinking from more than $1,000 U.S. a month in 2018 to less than $950 a month in 2023. Experts say this could be due in part to the economic slump in China as consumers place cheaper orders and combine their purchases.

20-year-old driver Lu tells us he makes about $30 to $40 a day.

LU SIHANG, FOOD DELIVERY DRIVER (through translator): I work from 10 a.m. onward to past 8 p.m., about 30 deliveries.

STEWART (voice-over): For some drivers, that's still better than the alternatives. It's flexible and beats sweating hours on a farm or a factory floor.

[03:50:02]

But as China keeps growing its appetite of swiping for service, appears to be eating away at more delivery drivers.

(END VIDEOTAPE) STEWART: The food industry certainly feels the economic hardship. It was just a few months ago that we reported on how McDonald's and other Western brands were coming up with meal deals to try to get people back into their restaurants.

The Chinese government is aware of the need to do something more to try and stimulate the economy. A lot of it though has been focused on banks, on interest rates. A lot of people would like to see direct cash into hands of consumers, but that's something that is pretty unlikely here in China.

Markets today doing okay. They had some anticipation of the GDP numbers. In fact, we saw some pretty strong rallies here on the indexes in China, the Shenzhen as well as the Shanghai Composite. Big picture though, China would like to see growth of 5 percent this year, but at this point that appears to be very lofty.

And Kim, I think it is also important to stress. Even though the Chinese economy appears to be having hardships, it is growing. It's just going at a very slow pace and not at the level that we have seen for years past that has helped China become and maintain itself as the world's second largest economy, Kim.

BRUNHUBER: All right. It is an interesting look at that problem you provided us there. Marc Stewart in Beijing, thanks so much.

Alright, while we're starting to learn more about the circumstances behind the famous singer's tragic death, just ahead we'll give you an update on the investigation and hear from fans of Liam Payne for a gathering to grieve. Stay with us.

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BRUNHUBER: Emotions are still raw for family, friends and fans after the sudden death of Liam Payne. It's not exactly clear what happened before he died. The former member of the wildly successful boy band One Direction fell from a hotel balcony in Argentina. He grew up in central England. People there say he'll always be a source of pride.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: It's just a shock. Just the waste of a young life.

UNKNOWN: The news, it was saddening. Obviously very sad news. When anyone passes, it's sad. Obviously it's nice that somebody from Wolverhampton can go on to do those amazing things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Many fans of Liam Payne are consoling each other by singing their favorite songs. CNN's Dario Klein is outside the hotel where he died and has the latest on the investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DARIO KLEIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hundreds of fans, people of around 20 and 30 years old, have been gathering here in Palermo, in Buenos Aires. In this hotel where Liam Payne fell from the third floor on Wednesday afternoon, they have been gathering from all day and they would probably keep staying here probably all night lighting candles, singing its songs, grabbing together, hugging and crying a lot but mostly looking for answers.

[03:55:03]

People are shocked looking for answers. The same answers that the police and the prosecutor's office is looking, they are trying to find out what happened before Leon fell from the third floor, before the manager of the hotel called the 911 police saying that a person was very aggressive.

The forensic report says that, and I'm reading, due to the position in which the body was left and the injuries from the fall, it is presumed that Payne did not adopt a reflex posture to protect himself and that he could have fallen into a state of semi or total unconsciousness. That means he was probably alone, that's what they say, and he was surrounded by substances like drugs and alcohol.

Probably alone, broke as he said in his last song, I don't know how to love you. But I'm broke too, and that's how probably these people right here is feeling right now.

Dario Klein, CNN, Buenos Aires.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: Heat stress is robbing coral reefs of their beautiful colors, bleaching them from the Atlantic to the Pacific to the Indian Ocean. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration told Reuters that 77 percent of the world's coral areas are being affected.

Bleaching happens when corals expel the colorful algae living in their tissues. Near record ocean temperatures across the world are harming the reefs. The bleached corals aren't yet dead, but ocean temperatures need to cool off for any hope of recovery.

Well, the October Supermoon has been lighting up the sky. Have a look at this. This is a time-lapse video of the celestial event in New York, also called the Hunter's Moon, and it was pretty impressive, as you can see. That's the biggest, brightest supermoon of the year, named for early hunters who gathered food for the long winter ahead. Views of the lunar spectacle worldwide have been breathtaking.

This is what people in New Delhi saw when they looked up. Now, a supermoon isn't, of course, super-sized. It just looks that way because the moon is closer to Earth than normal thanks to its orbit. And that makes it appear bigger and brighter, like this view from Hong Kong. The moon is now beginning to wane, but the show will still be worth watching tomorrow night.

Alright, thanks so much for joining me. I'm Kim Brunhuber, in Atlanta. More "CNN Newsroom" with Max Foster in London, after the break.

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