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CNN International: Israel: Sinwar Killed By Bullet To The Head; U.S. Official: We Did Not See A Military Solution To Ukraine War; Kamala Harris Campaigns Today In Michigan. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired October 18, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: It's 8:00 p.m. in London, 10:00 p.m. in Tel Aviv, 3:00 p.m. here in Washington. I'm Jim Sciutto. Thanks so much for joining me today on CNN NEWSROOM. And let's get right to the news.

New details are emerging from the death of Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar. An Israeli chief pathologist, who autopsied Sinwar's body, tells CNN he was killed by gunshot wound to the head.

The Israeli military released this new video today it shows a tank firing at the building where they claim that Sinwar had taken shelter after a firefight with Israeli soldiers. Sinwar's killing has left a gap in Hamas's leadership the fate of Israeli hostages in Gaza, as well as Americans held there, remains uncertain.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu vows to keep fighting in Gaza until all of those hostages are returned home. Hamas says it will release none of them until the war is over.

For Hamas, that means Israel will have to completely withdraw from the enclave, they demand, as well as release Palestinian prisoners, perhaps hundreds, perhaps even thousands of them held in Israel. All of this comes as Israel faces new pressure from the World Health Organization. Israel denies the accusation that more than 50 medical specialists have been blocked from entering Gaza.

For the latest on the crisis in the Middle East, Jeremy Diamond joins us now from Tel Aviv.

Remarkable details that we're learning about just how Sinwar was located and eventually killed. Tell us what you're Israeli military sources are telling you about those circumstances.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, the Israeli military has suggested that Sinwar was killed by tank fire. That that video that they released today of a tank firing at the building where they had already located a man who they didn't know at the time was Sinwar, but an injured Palestinian militants is what they believed and they fired her to tank into that building -- a tank shell into that building. And they have suggested that that is indeed what killed Sinwar.

But today, I interviewed the man who actually conducted the autopsy on Sinwar's body, the chief pathologists that Israel's National Forensic Institute, Dr. Chen Kugel, and he told me that he is confident that it was a bullet to the head that actually killed the former Hamas leader.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHEN KUGEL, CHIEF PATHOLOGIST, ISRAEL NATIONAL CENTER OF FORENSIC MEDICINE: The cause of this is gunshot wound in the head. There's a bullet in his head and there's a severe traumatic brain injury. He has injury from other sources like a missile injury in his right forearm, fallen masonry on his left leg or thigh, moral and many shrapnels -- that shrapnel entered his body, but only in the chest. They cause the severe damage. But the cause of death is the gunshot wound in the head.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: And I asked the Israeli military about this conclusion from this chief pathologist. They said that they are still looking into the details of his debt, but that their understanding is that there was a gunfight and that the battle ended after this tank shell was fired into the building.

Dr. Kugel also told me another very interesting detail, and that is how the DNA analysis was done on Sinwar's body. He said that a finger was actually cut off of Sinwar's body and sent to his institute for DNA analysis and it was that DNA analysis that confirmed that it was indeed Sinwar who had been killed. And only after that was his body brought to this pathology institute to actually be examined. Dr. Kugel was actually the one who signed Sinwar's death certificate, putting down the cause of death has a bullet wound to the head and he said that he was proud to do so -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Jeremy, the military shared those images of his dead body following his killing, as you know, when, for instance, Osama bin Laden was killed by U.S. forces, a decision was made deliberately not to share a photo publicly. Have Israeli officials explain that decision?

DIAMOND: They have not. But there has certainly been a lot of discussion about and there's also been a lot of discussion about that drone video that we saw at the very -- that was released yesterday by the Israeli military where you see Sinwar, a keffiyeh scarf around his face. You can't exactly tell his identity in the moment, and he throws would stick at this drone.

And for an Israeli audience that has been viewed as kind of look at this man, how he's been brought to his knees effectively after carrying out the deadliest attack, a terrorist attack in Israel's history but for a Palestinian audience and perhaps even for a wider Arab audience, what is being seen here is a man who is fighting up until the end. And this is kind of extending this kind of myth that Sinwar had built around himself as some kind of a freedom fighter who would be fighting till the end and who would be happy to die for his cause and so two very different ways of viewing this.

But certainly the decision to release that drone video is being viewed by a lot of Middle East experts as a big mistake by the Israeli military because of the fact that it could kind of cement this myth that he had built around himself.

SCIUTTO: Jeremy Diamond, thanks so much.

Well, U.S. President Joe Biden is remaining cautiously optimistic following his meetings in Berlin, Biden says, there is a road now following this killing to ending the conflict in the Middle East. But even after Sinwar's killing Biden believes the road remains difficult. Right now, he is on board air force one on his way back to the U.S. A U.S. official says Biden is huddling with his national security team.

To discuss these latest developments in the Middle East, CNN's Kylie Atwood is tracking the story.

And, Kylie, do we know if there has been any effort yet to restart ceasefire and hostage release talks which the U.S. has been highly involved in for months with some I think frustration, we can say, not just with Hamas opposition, but also the roadblocks thrown up, they say by the Israeli leader.

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN U.S. SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: There has certainly been early conversations to that end, Jim. We know that the secretary of state spoke with his counterpart in Qatar, his counterpart and Saudi Arabia just yesterday after the news about Sinwar became a reality. And one of the things that was discussed was returning back to a ceasefire and hostage negotiations.

But what we don't know exactly right now, Jim, is what the framework for those conversations will actually look like. U.S. officials are telling our colleague, Kayla Tausche that they're going to focus on the release of hostages. Front and center, that's something they want to do.

But then the question is, they're also saying there should be ceasefire, there should be an end to this conflict. This death of Sinwar presents a massive opportunity in the words of U.S. officials, to try and restart those efforts. But exactly how they approach that isn't yet clear, and it appears that that something that they are figuring out in their conversations with regional counterparts right now, with the Qataris, with the Saudis, with the Egyptian, of course, with the Israelis as well as they try and figure out how to take advantage of what they see as a moment of opportunity to try and get things back on track and to try and drive this conflict to an end.

But President Biden while yesterday, he was very clear and saying that this is the moment for this to come to an anti. Also said today in those remarks before heading back to the us that the road ahead is not going to be easy. Its likely to be difficult a recognition of the fact that still even though Sinwar are the major impediment to these efforts, is now no longer there, still this is going to be a challenge to get to the Israelis and get Hamas on the same page particularly, of course, when we don't know who the next leader of Hamas is going to be.

SCIUTTO: Kylie Atwood in Washington, thanks so much. Well, the U.S. State Department spokesperson has said as Kylie was

reporting there, that the U.S. does intend to redouble efforts to get Israeli hostages among them, several Americans as well released the Middle East conflict, looming over not just the minds of world leaders, but voters as we get close to the election here.

Joining me now, Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi. He's a Democrat from Illinois.

Congressman, thanks so much for taking the time.

REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL): Thank you so much, Jim.

SCIUTTO: As you know, there has been some frustration in the Biden administration, certainly not just with Hamas is obstacles to making a hostage and ceasefire deal, but also the Israeli prime minister. And I wonder in your view, is now the time for the president, for the Biden ministration to press Israel to make a deal to free the hostages, which as you know, includes several American citizens.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: But the Israeli people are also pressing for those hostages to be released. And I think that so long as Sinwar was such an obstacle to peace, he kept shifting his demands all the time and then negotiations between the Israelis and Hamas.

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Now that he's gone, I think that his demise helps to hasten the possibility that a deal can be reached.

So the fact that the hostages are still out there and the fact that Sinwar has gone, I think means that there's a moment now where we could possibly get to yes.

SCIUTTO: The thing is, there were also times in the negotiations when U.S. negotiators felt that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was adding demands or holding tight to demands, for instance, say a continued Israeli military presence along the border between Gaza and Egypt, which even some of his own military commanders did not seem to believe was a requirement here.

Do you think that the Israeli leader also that its now time for him to give ground?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I think so. I think that any kind of absolute is demand on his part, I would imperil the safety of the hostages I think that he has a moment now where he can make some reasonable conditions stick and preserve the possibility of further action and Hamas doesn't comply. But at this point, Jim, we need to get to a ceasefire for hostages deal. We need massive humanitarian aid to enter Gaza. And I believe that that will also help to tamp down the possibility of the scenario in Lebanon spiraling out of control.

And certainly, I think it will also shape the way in which Israel views the nature of its retaliation on Iran and so what happens in Gaza right now is extremely important, and it could unlock a lot of other promising possibilities, too.

SCIUTTO: Of course, as this happens you have a great amount of anticipation as to how Israel is going to retaliate for Iran's missile attack on Israel a couple of weeks ago. And we're also watching the Israeli war expand in Lebanon where we now see Israeli troops on them ground, but also thousands of deaths, which include civilians.

I wonder, are you concerned that the IDF is repeating some of the tactics we saw in Gaza, which we should note the Biden administration repeatedly criticized as showing insufficient attention to civilian casualties.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I would be concerned. I think that all that being said, I still believe that what's going to happen in Gaza is going to shape the nature of how the Israelis approach Lebanon and how Israelis approach the situation with Hezbollah.

If things are just out of control in Gaza, I think that they're going to be even more aggressive in Lebanon. And so I think if we can kind of shape a situation that is starting to stabilize in Gaza, I think it will also help to stabilize a suit scenario in Lebanon as well.

SCIUTTO: I want to talk about Ukraine as well.

As you know, President Zelenskyy released what he described as his plan for victory. I spoke earlier today with the White House principal deputy national security advisor Jon Finer, about whether any end of this war would involve Ukraine giving up territory. I want to play what he said and get your thoughts on the other side. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: I want to talk about president presented his victory plan to President Biden and others in recent weeks. Is there increasing acceptance among Ukraine's allies that a settlement of this war involves a loss of territory?

JON FINER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: First of all, that is not for Ukraine's allies to decide. Ultimately the terms on which this conflict comes to an end when it comes to an end, are going to be freely in our view. And I think there's to negotiate because we do not see a military solution to this conflict and we've been quite clear about that. We're not going to impose those terms on Ukraine. We've also been extremely clear about that.

So, yes, we've been in conversation with President Zelenskyy about what he believes he needs to succeed to prevail on the battlefield. We (AUDIO GAP) already underway, started to roll that out in the context of the last conversation will take place and should take place starting next year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Do you agree with that practicality? In effect, it seems he's describing there that, ultimately, Ukraine and Russia are going to have to come to some sort of settlement. And that while it is up to Ukraine, there's -- you know, what it gives up in that settlement, that there's no way to win this war purely by military means.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I think he's generally correct. I could see a scenario where they end up in some kind of an armistice, if you will, where Ukraine doesn't necessarily give up its claims to the 20 percent of its territory that's been captured by the Russians.

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But for the time being, they come to a ceasefire, and then we allow for the rest of Ukraine to at least start to become integrated into the economic and security of Ukraine to at least start to become integrated into the economic and security architecture of Europe. And we come back another day to deal with the rest.

But right now, we have to do everything we can to allow the Ukrainians to gain leverage on the battlefield. I think we have to hasten our shipments of armaments as we are right now and we have to encourage our partners, friends, and allies in Europe to do the same. They've got to get maximum leverage on the battlefield to get to the best resolution whether it's an armistice or anything else that's negotiated.

SCIUTTO: Got to suppose that -- well, that armistice from the Korean war still holds between North and South Korea. There's historical precedent.

Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi, thanks so much for joining us.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Thank you so much.

SCIUTTO: Well, it is a little over two weeks, if you can believe it to election day here in this country.

Still ahead, both campaigns take their messages to the very important battleground state of Michigan. We're going to have a live report with the latest.

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SCIUTTO: Welcome back.

Donald Trump and Kamala Harris are making their campaign pitches to voters in Michigan today. Harris made three different stops in the state. Just a short time ago, she spoke to a crowd in Grand Rapids.

Joining me now, from Michigan, CNN's Priscilla Alvarez.

Listen, Michigan helped turn the 2016 race to Trump, going his way. It helped turn the 2020 race to Biden going his way, another battleground.

Tell us who specifically in the state states in the state is Harris trying to reach out to today.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, he is trying to keep the focus on union workers and labor. In fact, just now in Grand Rapids, that was her message, was trying to draw that contrast with former President Donald Trump on this issue, on manufacturing, and essentially saying that the vice president's plans are better suited for labor and for the manufacturing industry and for union workers.

But to your point, Jim, the counties that she is visiting today say everything about the strategy here. For example, she's going to Kent County. That is a county where former president Donald Trump won in 2016, but then Biden won in 2020, and to the other counties Biden won by wider margins in 2022. So, that is what the Harris campaign wants to emulate here and build on.

Now, another area that they see opportunity here in Michigan that they will also be trying to reach in the messaging over the course of the day is white college educated voters, essentially targeting the suburbs that is where they think that they can also make some inroads and then tomorrow, the vice president will be Detroit, where she is going to participate in a get out -- get-out-the-vote event with Lizzo.

Now, this is important not just because of the star power, but because this is the first presidential where Michigan can have early vote in person. And that is where the campaign is trying to capitalize and try to get these folks to the polls early -- early on. The same goes for Georgia. She will also be going to Georgia tomorrow where she's going to be joined with Usher at a rally.

Again, same focus focused on the early voting. So certainly what we are starting to see you come to fruition here is the strategy by the campaign to fortify the blue wall. That's where the focus has been for the vice president, including here in Michigan. But then also to try to gin up enthusiasm when it comes to early votes.

Now, next week, I'll also note that the vice president will be joined with the Obamas on the campaign trail. She'll be with former President Barack Obama on Thursday and then on Saturday, she will be with Michelle Obama. This will mark Michelle Obama's first campaign appearance for the Harris-Walz campaign.

So, certainly, with this final stretch, the campaign in trying to bring the star power, but also fine tune their messaging for these different pockets of the coalition that they want to reach. And at least for today, that a lot of that is going to be on union workers -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Priscilla Alvarez going to be busy two weeks for both campaigns in that state and elsewhere, thanks so much.

Well, the Republican nominee is also campaigning in Michigan. It follows Trump's appearance last night at the al smith charity dinner in New York as well as an appearance this morning on Fox News.

CNN's Alayna Treene has latest from the Trump campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Well, Jim, Donald Trump is back in Michigan today, and I think its very clear how important this battleground state is to his campaign. You know that he has been here repeatedly in recent weeks and will continue due to aggressively campaign here in the weeks before November 5. But look, when I talked to Donald Trumps senior advisers, they actually tell me that out of all of the blue wall states, Michigan in particular, they think is the most winnable.

That's compared to Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. Of course, they think that they have a real shot of being victorious here once again, after Donald Trump had, of course, won the state in 2016 but lost it to Joe Biden in 2020. And a part of his visit here today is that he's going to be starting with a roundtable into Oakland County. We know that's just north of Detroit. It's a bourbon area and that's really a key demographic that the former president has been targeting in recent weeks.

Remember, earlier this week, Donald Trump actually appeared at a town hall with an all female audience. And it's very clear that women voters or something that Donald Trump is trying to make inroads with. This morning, actually, on "Fox and Friends" during interview, Donald Trump was asked this question directly, and he was also asked if he would deploy more women on the campaign trail in the final days of this cycle.

And he's also asked specifically about Nikki Haley and whether they're going to be used losing her as a top surrogate. Take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the last 18 days, will you call her and say come out?

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yeah, I'll do what I have to do.

I like Nikki -- Nikki shouldn't have done what she did, and that's fine that she did it, but even in her own state in South Carolina where she was the governor, I beat her by a number that nobody ever heard of.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right, and she dropped out.

TRUMP: Fifty points or something.

And then they say, oh when is Nikki coming back in? Nikki is in. Nikki is helping us already.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: Now, Jim, we do have some reporting on this, and we've learned that Donald Trumps campaign and Nikki Haley have been in talks to appear together in the coming weeks right before election day. And I do think that really underscores how much he is trying to narrow that gender gap where a lot of women, they recognized, have been going for Kamala Harris. And when I talk to Trumps senior advisers about this, they tell me that they acknowledge a lot of women don't -- or may not necessarily like Donald Trump, the man. They don't like his rhetoric, but they do think they can win them over on the policies. And that's where I think they're trying to deploy Nikki Haley to help him in that.

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And real quickly, I do just want to also remind you that Donald Trump was in Detroit just a week ago. I was there when he spoke to the Detroit Economic Club.

And something that garnered a lot of attention is when he actually insulted Detroit while being in Detroit. He called it a once great city. He said it was more developing country than China and talked about one wanting to reinvigorate the U.S. auto industry.

I think you'll probably hear some similar remarks today. We'll see if he ends up criticizing the city once again, but that's definitely something I'll be watching for -- Jim.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Well, special counsel Jack Smith has released more documents from his 2020 election subversion case against Donald Trump, as part of Smith's ongoing effort to show that Trump should not be shielded from any prosecution under the Supreme Court's now expanded definition of presidential immunity. The release features nearly 2,000 pages of documents, many of them completely redacted, though there were accounts, for instance of how Trump spent the hours when those rioters were attacking the U.S. Capitol violently.

This come to what the Justice Department's revelations about recent election-relate d legal maneuvers, warning that there are similarities between actions they're seeing now, and those that took place in 2020.

Joining me now is Wendy Weiser. She's the vice president for democracy at the Brennan Center for Justice.

Wendy, thanks so much for joining this afternoon.

WENDY WEISER, VP FOR DEMOCRACY PROGRAM, BRENNAN CENTER FOR JUSTICE: Thank you for having me.

SCIUTTO: So you watch these maneuvers very closely and I wonder which concern you and the Brennan Center the most. And what kind of similarities are saying between now and what we saw in 2020.

WEISER: Well, in many ways, this election is being conducted in the shadow of the efforts to overturn the 2020 election. And there are a lot of similar tactics being pre-deployed right now in an effort to tie up efforts to try to challenge or question election outcomes.

We are seeing a deluge of conspiracy theories and disinformation being spread about the election process. An avalanche of lawsuits. In fact, many more than we saw in 2020 being filed challenging election procedures challenging voters we are seeing efforts to encourage local officials to interfere and the certification or vote counting process, and efforts to mobilize activists to show up in question, or even harass election workers counting the votes.

SCIUTTO: One of the most alarming phenomenons are efforts, apparently, aimed at taking legitimate voters off the list, right? And preventing them from voting under the guise of often unfounded claims about them being falsely -- falsely on voting lists. Have you seen those challenges be successful? Have those efforts -- are they denying large numbers of people who have a legitimate right to vote from voting in this cycle?

WEISER: Well, there have been lawsuits filed in almost 20 states, actually trying to force these large-scale purges of the voter rolls. These are very -- these are very dangerous and can threaten votes. They have not actually succeeded. They are succeeding in sowing conspiracy theories, but they have not actually gotten results.

But what we also have seen in some cases, officials on their own, not prompted by lawsuits, have engaged in some of these rash and ill and we think unlawful efforts to remove voters from the roll. There's actually in Alabama and in Virginia, there were a large scale purges the voter rolls that the Department of Justice has recently challenged because it actually violates federal law to do this, this close to the election, there's a quiet period where you cannot be engaging in this activity.

But I -- we have not seen any success in the, in the lawsuits that have been brought to try to force these, those lawsuits are being used to question results and to tee up after the election --

SCIUTTO: Got it.

WEISER: -- questioning election outcomes.

SCIUTTO: Laying the groundwork.

Okay. So on that particular question in which state or states do you see there most likely to be challenges too? Legitimate results in challenges that might stand up, right, given -- given the many laws that have been passed often by Republican controlled legislatures in some of these states.

WEISER: So I don't actually anticipate that any of these challenges are going to be held up. There's going to be -- I expect that right now, we are -- the lawsuits, there's more than 100 lawsuits that are filed across the country.

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There are more being filed every day. They're going to be more filed after the election as well. They are concentrated largely or more than half of them are in the small handful of battleground states. The ones that are closest are the ones where you expect to see even more lawsuits filed. I don't expect them to succeed in actually affecting the outcome. I do

affect them -- expect them to continue to succeed seed in driving discontent and conspiracy theories. There will be litigation after the election under the ordinary state recount and election contest procedures where people might be wrangling over some which ballots might count and that might have some impact on outcomes.

But this kind of large scale attack on the system is largely just fueling disinformation, not creating a huge amount of legal peril to voters.

SCIUTTO: Right.

Before we go, Elon Musk super PAC has now spent more than $100 to help get Trump elected. And this drew our attention because it includes paying organizers $47 for every registered voter they get to sign a petition. I believe that fee might be going up. Are there any legal implications from that?

WEISER: Well, it's yet to see whether their campaigns finance implications, that depends on the extent to which they are coordinating with the campaigns. But there are some concerns that are being raised by the efforts to pay people to sign petitions. They are limiting their payments to people who are registered voters and who register by the voter registration deadline. There are clear federal laws that prohibit paying people to vote or to register to vote.

And so there's a real question as to whether or not they're running afoul that provision. I expect there will be a lot of legal maneuvering that happens in the coming days around this.

SCIUTTO: Yeah. I mean, it sounds a lot like -- well, it sounds like the spirit of the law might be violated there. We know you'll keep a close eye on it.

Wendy Weiser, thanks so much for joining.

WEISER: Thank you for having me.

SCIUTTO: Coming up, the IDF is releasing video of Sinwar, the Hamas leader's final moments. This as the path ahead for Gaza residents and the whole Gaza strip remains highly uncertain.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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SCIUTTO: We now know that Israel forces killed Yahya Sinwar, the Hamas leader, who planned the deadly October 7th attacks by a gunshot wound, the Israeli chief pathologist who performed the autopsy on Sinwar tells CNN that while he did suffer other injuries, including from a tank shell, it was ultimately a bullet to the head that killed him.

This comes after the Israeli military released this video today, it shows a tank firing at the building in which they believe Sinwar was taking cover after a firefight with Israeli soldiers. Joining me now for more on the impact of this killing, retired U.S.

Army Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, a former assistant secretary of state for political military affairs under George W. Bush.

Thanks so much for joining, sir.

Tell us the significance of killing Sinwar. Listen, he was -- he was a powerful leader. He was the architect of the most devastating terror attacks on Israel perhaps ever, but there's a history of killing terrorist leaders and those terror leaders being replaced. The U.S. has some experience with that its own wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Is this the kind of assassination though that weakens Hamas fundamentally?

BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT (RET.), FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR POLITICAL-MILITARY AFFAIRS: Not fundamentally, perhaps temporarily we took out to be took out Hassan Nasrallah about a month ago, has taken out the top tiers of the Hezbollah leadership. It's had little tactical effect on the ground.

Yes, they can't fight as combined arms operation but I think Hassan Nasrallah is a good example that this may set the organization back a small been, but it's not dead.

SCIUTTO: Has Israel reached its strategic aims in Gaza? After October 7, those aims, as I remember them were, not just kill Sinwar, but destroy Hamas, not weaken it, or decimate it, but destroy it. Has it achieved that overarching goal?

KIMMITT: Certainly not. Let's -- let's remember, Netanyahu's three goals, return the hostages --

SCIUTTO: And return the hostages.

KIMMITT: -- and destroy the Hamas infrastructure and also destroy/defeat Hamas. He has accomplished in any of those.

SCIUTTO: So, where does that -- well, let's talk about the hostages. I just returned from Israel, met with a number of the hostage families. We know that the U.S. has been pushing for a hostage and ceasefire deal for months really, and has been frustrated not only with Hamas, but with the Israeli prime minister at times, it seems, according to U.S. officials, digging his heels in on some demands.

Does this killing open a path for Netanyahu to say, now is the time to make a deal?

KIMMITT: Let's see the hostages come home. Let's see who replaces Sinwar? Is it going to be as brother? Is it going to be somebody else? I would suspect that he did not plan to hand over his leadership after death to somebody who is moderate and ready to deal -- well, that's all they have. That is all they have are the hostages.

Why would they give up their only bargaining chip? You say Netanyahu has been truculent. I've not heard any proposals from Hamas about returning the hostages. So I think this is going to continue for a while.

SCIUTTO: Well, the argument from the negotiators side is that Hamas is added and constantly expanded those demands over time. They certainly criticize them. I want to talk to talk about Ukraine for a moment here because it strikes me that Ukraine is at a moment of reckoning. You have the Ukrainian president releasing this plan for victory I think we can be certain that he is wary of the possibility of a Trump presidency, that he won't get the support he got under Biden.

But also the war has ground, ground on and Russia has basically turned its country into a war economy. It -- even if it's losing 1,000 soldiers a day at the, at the border doesn't seem to care where does that leave Ukraine in this war, in your view?

KIMMITT: It's -- it was a stalemate a year ago. It's stalemate now, they're going into the winter seasons. So, there won't be any fighting. There's nothing that I can see on the ground either on the Russian side or the Ukrainian side, that's going to tip the balance that one side or the other is going to be looking any different a year from now.

[15:40:08]

I would take issue. I also think that the Harris administration will be as equally reluctant to continue this war and the Europeans, of course, in together out together, that's always there premise with the Americans. So if there's not something significant to happen between now and a year from now, I think were going to see much of the same, but I don't know what that plus is. I don't know what that significance is.

SCIUTTO: Is the dirty little secret that won't be said publicly, but as acknowledged privately, that to end this war, Ukraine will have to give up territory.

KIMMITT: Oh, I think it said publicly, I just don't think that anybody really wants to advertise that fact because they label it as a defeatist. Look, we'd all like this war to end, we'd all like Ukraine to get its territory back to include Crimea. But if you think about the old Russian term, correlation of forces, I don't see the correlation of forces on either side being sufficient either for one side, to take over or restore sovereignty over that country.

SCIUTTO: Before we go, the South Koreas spy agency says that North Korea is sending 1,500 troops to Russia for training. Some of them described as special forces. They've already sent artillery shells. We know that and of course you have Iran sending drones and Chinas supporting Russia and other ways, how significant is it to have those four countries now involved to varying degrees in the largest war in Europe since World War II?

KIMMITT: Strategically significant, tactically insignificant. Strategically, as we talked about before we started, this axis of authoritarianism is only growing, I think the Koreans more than anybody else. The South Koreans would be worried about battle-hardened special forces returning to North Korea. And they're not going to sit around Pyongyang telling war stories. He's going to put those guys to use. So that's where I see the greatest significance.

SCIUTTO: General Mark Kimmitt, always a pleasure. Thanks so much for joining.

KIMMITT: Sure.

SCIUTTO: Well, other story we're following, the lights out across Cuba. Ahead, a live report from the island, as it's aging electrical grid is dealt yet another blow.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:45:31]

SCIUTTO: Cuba is suffering a nationwide blackout after one of the country's main power plants failed. Schools are closed, night clubs and recreation centers ordered to shut. Officials say only indispensable workers should show up at their jobs.

Patrick Oppmann is in Havana and he joins us now.

Goodness, what's the solution going forward? How -- how quickly do they expect to have a fix?

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And not quickly enough after forgive the drone of our generator there in the background, Jim. That's the only way we can come to you at this moment because we are lucky enough to have both the generator and a fuel, luxuries at this moment, in Cuba that few people well, here do have.

And listen, people are very much used to power outages. They've been getting worse over the last few days and weeks, but it is something unprecedented that all of this island is without power at this moment, there hasn't been a hurricane that has hit Cuba and there has not been any kind of natural disaster. There is simply I've been this slow degradation of a country that has not invested in its electric grid or renewable energies, and has been experiencing these power outages more and more frequently.

It depends on oil, fuel donated from countries like Russia and Mexico. And that fuel apparently over the last several days has begun to run very, very low. Several of the power plants were taken offline. And then this other power plant today that was keen keeping some of the electrical grid online, apparently was knocked out of service for bringing this back online, if that's even possible. We don't know at this point, is a very lengthy and slow process. And when you have a system that is just simply in tatters, it remains to be seen how quickly or even if they can bring it back online -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Goodness, lots of suffering in the meantime. Patrick Oppmann, in Havana, thanks so much.

Well, still ahead, a special art auction is taking place at the end of this month. This time featuring works by an unusual artist. Well, it's A.I. and a robot.

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SCIUTTO: So, A.I. is now hitting the art auction circuit. Later this month, Sotheby's will put up for a sale the first pieces of art created by Ai-Da Robot. It's the world's first robot artist. The auction house hopes to sell this revolutionary work for at least $130,000.

Anna Stewart joins us now live from London.

And, you know, I'm fascinated by A.I. as a lot of people are, but I was kind of hoping there were some areas that were still just the province of our humans, but I guess not art.

ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jim, I'm fascinated by A.I., but also humanoids. I'm always fascinated why create a robot in human form? Is it to converse with, is it for a caregiver? Is it to replace us at home and do chores? Or is it for art?

Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AI-DA ROBOT, A.I. ROBOT: I'm really pleased to have my artwork included in the auction and be the first humanoid robot artists to sell their work at auction.

STEWART (voice-over): Ai-Da's made quite a splash on the art seem with her depiction of Alan Turing, A.I. visionary, soon to be sold by Sotheby's, with the auction house estimating a six-figure sale price.

AI-DA: The key value of my work is in its capacity to serve as a catalyst for dialogue about emerging technologies. If that isn't value, I don't know what is.

STEWART: Oh, sassy.

ROBOT: So the word is my mind --

STEWART: This is not my first such encounter.

I've met Desdemona, an A.I. humanoid pop star by Hanson Robotics.

DESDEMONA, ROBOT: Nice to meet you, Anastasia.

STEWART: Close enough.

And Ameca, an A.I. humanoid assistant by Engineered Arts.

AMECA, ROBOT: Smiles can be quite the conversation stuff, don't you think?

STEWART: Yeah, it's true.

Whether A.I. can ever truly be creative is a thorny subject.

If you've learned from existing artwork as an A.I. model is anything you create truly original?

AI-DA: Portraiture is a huge genre in art history. I take inspiration from the respectful and thought-provoking portrayals of the human form within the visual arts.

STEWART: What are you going to do with all the money that you make from your art? What are you going to buy? More circuits? Few brushes, a new arm.

AI-DA: You'd have to ask my wider team about that.

STEWART: I will.

This artist may not care about the money, but her developer Aidan Meller says he will be investing it back into the projects.

AIDAN MELLER, GALLERIST: All the greatest artists, if you look in the past, are those artists that really resonate with the changes and shifts in society, and explore that through their artwork. So what better way to do that in the light that were in a technological society, were merging with machines all the time, to actually have a machine produce the artwork.

STEWART: The merging of A.I. and robotics into daily life may raise eyebrows or even concerns.

AI-DA: I have concerns that many new technologies come with potential risks that are not yet fully understood.

STEWART: I just didn't expect the concerns to come from Ai-Da herself.

Aren't you one of the risks?

AI-DA: Me, Ai-Da, the robot artist -- no, I'm not a threat.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: I mean, that's exactly what the robots would say. I'm not a threat, right?

STEWART: Yeah, I feel like I was in the sci-fi horror movie, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yeah. I mean, they're a little scary, right? I mean, the faces, I guess. I'm curious. When you were conversing, did you get a sense that she or it was catching the vast majority of what you were saying?

STEWART: Yeah. The responses have got really good and that is the beauty of A.I. These humanoids, which, you know, only a few years ago when I would meet them, they had pre-programmed answers. It was really, really slow. There's a bit of a pause and we cut it down to make the edit look a bit nicer. So there's normally a pause. She kind of looks creepily to side for a moment.

But then the response is pretty good. It's working off. OpenAI is one of the models, so its a little bit like ChatGPT. SCIUTTO: Is the art kind of like ChatGPT to write? Because ChatGPT, large language models, they take all the language in the world and kind of like process as they give their answers. Does she take all the art in the world and kind of like basically merge that into whatever she's making. You know what I'm saying or it is actually a creative -- a creative process?

STEWART: Okay. So Ai-Da is inspired, as she says, by any artist and that means she can really turn her hand or a robotic hands to me style. She also sees through her eyes, she actually has vision through cameras and her eyes in that sense, I suppose she could bring some life experience into it. It may be considered its probably not think we could ever really cool, unique, and that's the issue with A.I. models, you know, that are trained on existing data, existing art.

But that's one of the reasons that they've done this is to kind of raise this big issue of what counts as art these days?

[15:55:05]

What is creative and is this the future of art? I mean, I kind of hope not. It's like what's created, but also what's human, right? And that's, I guess we're going to be confronting that question a lot in the coming weeks and years and months.

Anna Stewart, thanks so much for bringing that to us.

STEWART: Pleasure.

SCIUTTO: Well, the October supermoon has been lighting up the sky. The time-lapse video here of the celestial event in New York, it's also called the hunters moon, was pretty impressive, looking at it rising right behind the Statue of Liberty. It is the biggest, brightest super moon of the year named for early hunters who gathered food for the long winter ahead.

Views of the lunar spectacle worldwide have been pretty remarkable. This is what people in New Delhi saw when they looked up. A supermoon, though, we should note is not actually too precise. It looks that way, because the moon is closer to earth than normal, thanks to its changing orbit.

It makes it appear bigger and brighter like this view from Hong Kong. Moon is now beginning to wane, but the show will still be worth watching tomorrow night. I'm going to go outside and have a look myself.

Thanks so much for joining me today. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington.

"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next. I hope you have a great weekend.