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Campaigns Fight to Win Over Nikki Haley Voters; Texas Death Row Inmate Set to Testify. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired October 21, 2024 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: Joining us now, Texas State Representative Jeff Leach, who's on the House committee holding today's hearing and actually helped to introduce that subpoena to get Roberson to testify.

Sir, it's good to have you with us this hour. I'd love to pick up -- I hope that you could hear my colleague Ed Lavandera there talking about, which we know, that the attorney general had said, well, he can -- he can testify virtually. No indication at this point he will be there in person.

[11:30:04]

Do you know yet whether he will be there in person?

STATE REP. JEFF LEACH (R-TX): Well, good morning. It's good to be with you here from the Texas Capitol. Appreciate you having me on.

Look, right now, we're fully expecting Mr. Roberson to be here to testify, to comply with our valid legislative subpoena. And we have been working around the clock all weekend with the other branches of government, with the attorney general's office, with the Texas Department of Criminal Justice, with the governor's office, and with all agencies involved to make sure that we can do so safely, not only for the people here, but for Mr. Roberson himself.

So I fully expect him to testify today. And, if not, we're going to make reasonable accommodations to ensure that his testimony is heard before this committee sooner than later.

HILL: So, just to follow up on that, you have been in these meetings throughout the weekend. Has there been -- how much resistance, I should say, has there been to having him appear in person? And do you believe you have overcome all of that with each of these various departments?

LEACH: Well, look, let's be very clear.

The committee, not only once, but feels like we need to meet and to hear the testimony of Mr. Roberson. That's why we voted unanimously on our subpoena last week. And so we expect that to happen. It's a valid subpoena. The legislature has a very important role here. And the question is not whether he will appear. The question is how.

Mr. Roberson cannot appear virtually. It is impossible for him to do so because of his mental disability. And his attorney has made that very clear on the record. So the question now is whether he will show up today, whether he will show up at another date here at the Texas Capitol, or, if necessary, whether our committee will take a field trip to Huntsville three hours away to interview him in a public hearing there at the prison.

We will figure that out here in the coming hours.

HILL: In the coming hours. I mean, do you have a -- sorry. Do you have a time when you think you might know that by?

I mean, so the hearing's supposed to start in, what, about an hour- and-a-half?

LEACH: We are working around the clock here, even as I step away from that work to do this interview, with the agencies that are involved here.

I fully expect -- I have no indication that he won't show up today, but if he doesn't, make sure that this -- be assured that this committee will take all steps necessary to receive his testimony in person, not virtually, but in person, as soon as we possibly can.

HILL: So, as we wait for that answer to see whether it's today or another day, you were instrumental in making sure that we got to this moment.

What was it specifically about Roberson's conviction that you believe warrants another look? Why was it so important for you to make this happen?

LEACH: Look, I have been doing this long enough to know -- and I'm a conservative Republican, death penalty supporter myself, OK? I support the death penalty in the most heinous cases. I always have, and I consistently will.

But I have been doing this long enough now to know when the system has failed someone. And, in this case, from the initial investigation through the trial through the appellate courts, at every step of the way, the system has failed Mr. Roberson and his daughter Nikki.

And so the legislature, like I said, has an important role to ask questions, to seek the truth, to hold accountable those who have done wrong, to fix holes in the system, like I said, to ask tough questions. And that's what we're doing by way of this process.

Look, Mr. Roberson is still alive today. He was not executed last week by the state of Texas because our committee stepped up and spoke up and acted. I'm very grateful to have played a role with many other individuals in that effort.

But going forward, we have got to make sure that not only does Mr. Roberson receive the fair trial that he's deserved, but that we fix the holes in the system here in Texas to make sure this never, ever happens again. HILL: As you mentioned, this execution was halted. The reality is, as

I understand it, the DA in that county, though, could reschedule it. Are you concerned that will happen?

LEACH: I don't know at this point. Sure. Sure, I'm concerned that could happen.

Just a few days ago, there were a number of folks including the district attorney in Anderson County, who remained largely silent on his impending execution. Realize this. He was just 20 minutes and 20 steps away from receiving a lethal dose of pentobarbital last week.

I mean, he was right outside of the execution chamber. I'm so grateful that the Supreme Court of Texas did the right thing in recognizing the power of the legislature to step in when something like this is happening by responding to our subpoena, allowing us the opportunity to investigate, to ask questions, to meet with Mr. Roberson to judge his credibility.

But for their actions, but for the actions of our committee and many other great people who have spoken up and stepped forward, Mr. Roberson would not be alive right now. And so, again, all we're calling for is a new trial, and so all of the facts can come out and justice can be delivered here. That that's our goal. And that's what we're committed to doing as long as it takes.

HILL: And, real quickly, you're confident that will happen, a new trial?

LEACH: I am confident.

I know the people involved in this, and we're not going to give up. We're not backing down. And I'm confident that we're going to work with the governor and the courts and all branches of government working together to make sure justice is served here and that an innocent life is spared.

[11:35:07]

HILL: Representative Jeff Leach, we appreciate you stepping out to talk to us. And we look forward to that update coming as to when we will in fact hear from Robert Roberson.

Thank you.

LEACH: We will probably find out together.

Thanks for having me this morning.

HILL: Thanks so much.

Still to come here this hour: Just where did the Nikki Haley voters go? Kamala Harris is hoping to find them in three key swing states this week, and she's bringing in a pretty powerful Republican to help.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:40:09]

HILL: Today, Kamala Harris is taking her fight against Donald Trump to the suburban battlegrounds, enlisting one of his top opponents, former GOP Congresswoman Liz Cheney.

Any minute now, Harris and Cheney are set to appear together just outside Philadelphia, before then traveling to Michigan and Wisconsin later today.

CNN's Danny Freeman is there in Pennsylvania for this event.

So what can we expect to see and, frankly, hear from the vice president and the former congresswoman there on the stage?

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Erica, this event today is really a continuation of something that started last week, also in Pennsylvania, also in the suburbs of Philadelphia, this appeal and this reaching out to moderate and perhaps even more conservative women in these all-important collar counties.

Listen, one of the senior campaign advisers to the Harris campaign in Pennsylvania was quoted in recent weeks saying, at least in Bucks County, which is not too far from here, you can't win in Bucks County as a Democrat unless you peel away some Republicans.

Here in Chester County, where this event is today, this actually had the highest number of Nikki Haley voters who voted in this past Pennsylvania Republican primary of the collar counties. So those are the people that the Harris campaign is really trying to appeal to and get by this event today.

It's going to be a discussion, as you said, with former Congresswoman Liz Cheney. The vice president is already here on campus, on scene here at this little theatrical venue. And, again, to emphasize this particular event here today in this particular spot, because it's indicative of a number of events that we're going to see also in other suburbs of Detroit and Wisconsin later today, Chester County, make no mistake, it's a blue county in Pennsylvania.

But it went for Mitt Romney actually back in 2012. It was the only of the Philadelphia suburban collar counties that went for Mitt Romney back in 2012. In fact, it was seen as a big step backwards when, in 2016, former President Trump lost the county in big numbers. It's affluent. It is high-educated.

These are the type of voters, again, that the Harris campaign really wants to bring into her camp. And I mentioned that event last week, Erica. It was in Bucks County, again, in this similar vein. The messaging there was, they had 100 Republicans who also came to her event to support her. They had former representative Adam Kinzinger take the stage in support of Vice President Harris.

And the way that she's framing her ticket in these events is, this is a unity ticket. This is supposed to be a bipartisan ticket. And she's trying to bring the message across that you can vote for her campaign and that that vote, if you are a moderate Republican, a conservative Republican, that this will be a vote for country over party, just because, in the Harris campaign's view, former President Donald Trump is that much of a risk to the country.

So I think that's a preview of what we're going to see today in the next couple of minutes as this event gets under way. I think you can also probably, Erica, expect to hear some of the continuation of the attacks that Vice President Harris levied against former President Donald Trump after he went on, frankly, a vulgar and profane and odd series of comments in the western part of the state back on Saturday.

So we will be listening for that as well, Erica.

HILL: We will be watching that.

We're going to sneak in a quick break here, Danny, just before things get under way. Thank you for setting the scene for us.

Stay with us. Quick break, as I said. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:47:46]

HILL: Welcome back.

We are awaiting Vice President Kamala Harris and former GOP Congresswoman Liz Cheney to take the stage there for a conversation in Pennsylvania.

Joining me now, Republican strategist Erin Perrine and CNN political commentator and Harris' former director of communications Jamal Simmons.

It's good to see both of you.

So, my colleague Danny Freeman pointing out wisely just before the break that this is happening in Malvern, Pennsylvania. Chester County had the highest number of Haley voters in these collar counties. The fact that Liz Cheney is going to be here, we know there are some talks for Donald Trump to hopefully get to an event with Nikki Haley.

Is there a sense at this point in terms of movable voters who could have more sway, a Liz Cheney or a Nikki Haley? Jamal, what's your sense?

JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: At this point, it might be Liz Cheney because Nikki Haley is still supporting Donald Trump.

And you would think that the voters who supported Nikki Haley, even when she wasn't on the ballot and Donald Trump was running during the primary, they still came out and support and voted for her. That feels like an anti-Trump vote more than even it being a pro-Nikki Haley vote at that moment. I did a lot of politics in the South. And people have a saying, it's

the stuck pig that squeals. And the fact that Lindsey Graham went "on Meet the Press" yesterday and began talking about these Republican voters, the fact that J.D. Vance has gone full throttle against Nikki -- I mean, against Liz Cheney, calling her small and petty and implying she's just bitter and has hatred, like, those are, frankly, not great phrases I have ever used when thinking about women.

But they have been doing this. It makes me think that maybe there's something in the data that they're trying to hold back. They see some movement that may occur with these Republican women and they're trying to stop it.

HILL: It's an interesting theory.

Erin, as you look at that, what stood out to me, those comments from J.D. Vance that Jamal was just referencing, the fact that he was calling her small and petty and vindictive. What's fascinating is, we have seen Donald Trump run a campaign that way, right? It is this campaign of retribution and going after people.

So do you think it does -- to Jamal's point, do you think it does signify that there's some concern about perhaps how effective Liz Cheney is as a surrogate for Kamala Harris?

[11:50:01]

ERIN PERRINE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I don't think that it's going to spark concern.

But I think there will be a lot of thesis papers and political consternation after this about which endorsement and which thing moved voters the most, because this is such a tight cycle. Will it be someone like a Liz Cheney in Pennsylvania that can help move a few persuadable voters?

What, we looked at about 16 percent of the Republican electorate in the Pennsylvania primary, about 158,000 voters who went for Nikki Haley. Those are open voters, but it's so late in the game now that you're seeing that some of these voters, even a hard-core Democrat voting blocs or persuadable voters, are saying, hey, now you're trying to get my attention, you're trying to get me to vote for you.

Why now? Why at the very end are you all of a sudden making these overtures to me? Because that will ring hollow. So while there's a persuadable bloc there, it may not be enough to try and move that state, whether it's toward voters who are saying, I'm going to stand behind Nikki and go towards Trump, or those who are going to say, I voted for Nikki, I'm looking at Liz Cheney, and I'm going to go with Kamala Harris.

HILL: Jamal, with such a focus on the small percentage of voters that's still in there that's potentially movable, do you have any concerns about such a focus on independents and moderates alienating in any way the Democratic base?

SIMMONS: Oh, Erica, I'm concerned about everything. I'm just biting my nails every single day.

(LAUGHTER)

SIMMONS: This is going to be all the way to the finish line. And I think each one of these campaigns is scrounging for every vote they can get.

I will say, they didn't just start -- the Harris campaign didn't just start talking to Haley voters. They hired somebody very early in the Harris campaign. You got to remember, it's only been around for three months. So, for the Harris campaign, it's a couple of months ago.

They hired somebody pretty early to focus on Haley voters and start talking to them. They have been doing targeted communication toward them. Maybe the rest of us aren't seeing it because we're not in the target community.

But I think people have been hearing from the Harris campaign. This is something they take very seriously. But this is kind of a coalition that stretches from AOC and Bernie Sanders all the way on the left to kind of Liz Cheney and some other Republicans on the right, Dick Cheney, in particular.

And for those of us who've been Democrats for our entire lives, being on the same side as Liz and Dick Cheney tells you something big must be going on, because if you can get Bernie Sanders and Dick Cheney to agree on the same thing, they both agree that Kamala Harris should be president and Donald Trump shouldn't, that's a big deal.

HILL: Yes, don't think you ever had that on your bingo card, Jamal. A lot of Americans probably did not.

SIMMONS: I did not.

HILL: But we also are just seeing that former President Trump, of course, just arriving in North Carolina. He's there in the western part of the state. You see he's in Asheville right now.

Erin, he's going to be campaigning there. He's -- actually three stops in North Carolina, also a key state, as we know. It is not just Pennsylvania, one of those states that we're watching. And he is in this hard-hit area of Nashville, which is still recovering from Helene on the heels too of a lot of misinformation coming out of the Trump campaign about what was actually happening on the ground in terms of help there.

What do you anticipate the message is from him today?

PERRINE: Well, I hope the closing message is one that's focused on the economy and the American people and getting this country back on the right track.

Right now is the time to make the closing message. And that can even be a contrast point just in even the ability to do that to Kamala Harris, this campaign, who is still midstream conversation with voters at this point. Yes, they might have hired someone to try and make overtures toward a Nikki Haley voter or Liz Cheney voter.

But those voters were not making the moves to show that had been an successful endeavor so far, so all things to say that these -- that Donald Trump has a path through both the Rust Belt, those blue wall states, and the Sun Belt states to get to 270. Kamala has a much harder time in the Sun Belt states.

So we will see Trump bounce back and forth, probably a little less of Kamala down there.

HILL: All right, let's move back to Pennsylvania, if we could, Liz Cheney just making her way out there to the stage. Let's listen in.

(CHEERING)

HILL: Well, again, if you're just joining us this event in Malvern, Pennsylvania, you have the vice president there, of course, former Congresswoman Liz Cheney, who is campaigning with her as well.

They will be there in discussion hearing from voters. And we're told this is going to be more about the concerns that the vice president has about a second Trump term. We will see how specific they get in terms of questions on policies and politics.

SARAH LONGWELL, LONGWELL PARTNERS: Let's do it. Let's do it.

HILL: Let's do it. Let's listen in.

LONGWELL: Oh, happy belated birthday. Oh, yes.

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (D) AND U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you.

LONGWELL: Audience members showing me up. That's tough.

OK, so I have got to start with the thing that brings us here today, because I have got to say it is unusual for somebody who is as high up in the Republican leadership as Liz Cheney was to be out here campaigning with the Democratic nominee for president.

[11:55:03]

And so maybe why don't both of you tell us, but you start. You have actually marshaled unprecedented support from Republicans in this election. Why do you think that is?

HARRIS: Thank you, Sarah. Thank you for being here and for your work. And the congresswoman, thank you.

I have said before, and it must be repeated each time, there are moments in the history of our country which challenge...

HILL: So the vice president here talking about why she thinks so many Republicans are supporting her, including Liz Cheney.

Stay with us. We're going to fit in a quick break here. Much more to come on the other side on "INSIDE POLITICS." My colleague

Dana Bash picks up our coverage after this short break.