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Soon: Obama, Walz Speak At Campaign Rally In Wisconsin; Trump Holds Roundtable Event For Latinos In Florida; U.S. Secretary of State Meets With Israeli Officials; Lebanon Reports Highest Daily Death Toll In Three Weeks; Musk's $1M Lottery For Voters In Battleground States. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired October 22, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:48]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: It is 8:00 p.m. in London, 10:00 p.m. in Tel Aviv, 3:00 p.m. here in Washington.

I'm Jim Sciutto. Thanks so much for joining me today on CNN NEWSROOM. And let's get right to the news.

With just two weeks left until Election Day. Both Kamala Harris and Donald Trump are in full sprint to reach in particular out to undecided voters. One piece of analysis, officials with both campaigns seem to agree on this race is extremely close. T

oday will begin in one of the places where it's close, the battleground state of Wisconsin, where in-person voting is already underway.

We are moments away from former U.S. President Barack Obama taking the stage alongside Harris running mate Tim Walz. Harris, not on the trail today, but she is unveiling a series of economic plans targeting Latino men.

The vice president also ramping up her media appearances, sitting down for interviews with NBC News as well as the Spanish language network Telemundo. On Wednesday, Harris will join CNN for a town hall just outside Philadelphia.

Anderson Cooper will moderate. Of course, you can watch it right here at 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time.

As we wait for former President Obama to speak, let's bring in CNN's Stephen Collinson, who is live here with me in Washington, D.C.

So, Stephen, we've seen Barack Obama more active, more present on the campaign trail in recent days and weeks. How is he making a pitch to voters with two weeks to go? And what should we expect to hear today?

STEPHEN COLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: I think it's going to try and put on a show. Sixteen years after he first ran for president, Obama is still the Democrats' most powerful political figure. He is in Wisconsin, as you said, where early voting starts today, that is an absolutely critical step on Kamala Harris's path to the White House. Bear in mind that four years ago, Joe Biden only won it by about 10 percent when he became -- 10,000 votes, when he became president, it's a massive college town. Democrats need to drive up the margins there, if they're going to win the state.

So it's all about enthusiasm. Obama, of course, is making the sharpest comparisons between Harris and Trump and he's arguing as only a former president should -- can that Trump is no longer fit for a return to the Oval Office, so expect to see that. He's later going to move on to Detroit appearing, with Eminem. I think you'll see him there, appeal to black male voters, a crucial part of the Democratic coalition, where Harris is struggling to pull up the kind of number she needs to win Michigan, another key swing state.

SCIUTTO: Talk about Latino voters just for a moment here, because you can tell, it's revealing, right, where these candidates spend their final days and weeks in terms of the voters they think they can win or perhaps that they are losing some ground among, and we know that based on public polling, that is the case, particularly with Latino men.

So what's been her focus to reach out to that group?

COLLINSON: I think this shows as you suggest, some vulnerability for Harris campaign she has been losing where she needs to be in terms of Latino voters, Trump has been making inroads in that normally Democratic community. She's especially vulnerable among Latino men. What she's going to do is she's going rolled out a series of proposals to improve home ownership, improve the quality of jobs that Latino men can get to make it easier to get professional education, to answer the question that Trump is asking this community, were you better off with me in the White House or are you better off with the Biden-Harris administration in the White House?

Latino men are not just important out in the west states like Nevada, Arizona there are pockets of Hispanic communities in Pennsylvania, for example, another massively important state for Harris that have shown some interest in Trump and were moving towards him in this election cycle. She really needs to stop that ebbing of that coalition member if she's going to win that state as well.

SCIUTTO: Stephen Collinson, thanks so much.

COLLINSON: Thanks.

SCIUTTO: Well, on the Republican side of the campaign, Donald Trump, he is making his own pitch to Latino voters.

[15:05:05]

Earlier, he held a roundtable discussion with Latino faith and business leaders. This took place where -- well, at his south Florida golf club. Trump slammed the Biden administration's handling and particularly the southern border unleashed a flurry of personal insults directed at Harris, is not the first time.

In a few hours from now, Trump will return then to the battleground state of North Carolina for a rally. Joining us now to discuss, CNN's Alayna Treene.

Tell us what the headlines were from his roundtable discussion beyond that litany of personal insults.

ALAYNA TRENEE, CNN REPORTER: Well, I mean, at this point, Jim, which is 14 days to go, everything that he says everywhere that he is, I -- you know, it obviously is very meaningful. And what he is doing, everything is strategic.

Now, as you said, apart from the personal insults which we know he has been really escalating in recent weeks. He talked a lot about the economy. He talked a lot about, you know, faith, which they actually think does help really bring some Hispanic voters and Latino voters over to Donald Trump's side. They think a lot of Hispanic men in particular our Catholic.

We actually saw him yesterday, give a pitch to faith leaders as well. I just got off the phone with a Trump advisor who said that pitch is also in part going after Hispanic voters. But look, I think the bigger picture here is how, why they see this to be such an important coalition and demographic for them. And it really is everything that Steven laid out, where it is a vulnerability for Kamala Harris. It is an area where Donald Trump's campaign believes they can siphon away support an election that is expected to be so incredibly close, really, anywhere that they can gain more support, they think could make a huge difference. They really do believe that this could be won on the margins.

And so that's why you're seeing him go so hard after these groups. It's not just Hispanic and Latino men and, you know, Hispanic and Latino people in general, but also Black men in particular, women voters. That's part of why he's been spending so much time in North Carolina. Now I know when Donald Trump, later this weeks goes to places like Arizona and Las Vegas, he's also going to be making that exact same pitch to Hispanic men in particular, in those places.

Now, one issue we did hear him talk a lot about today was actually the border and I had some people reach out to me asking, does his language, does his rhetoric when it comes to immigration, particularly arguing that undocumented immigrants were coming over from the southern border being criminals. Does that resonate with Hispanic voters? It's interesting because I asked the Trump campaign this all the time and they actually think it does. They think it does resonate with them.

And I will say, when I talk to voters on the trail as well in all of these different Trump rallies that I go to, many of them are immigrants. Now, many of them are immigrants who came here legally. And that's why they actually argue that this is one of their top issues. And we actually heard someone today at that roundtable in Miami tell Donald Trump that, you know, it's a misnomer just because, you know, I may be an immigrant doesn't mean that I don't care about the border.

So that's something we heard Donald Trump lean very heavily into as well and I know he's going to make that same pitch later this week when he's on the west coast -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Alayna Treene, thanks so much.

So, as we noted, voters in the U.S., they have just two weeks to decide on who should be in the White House. Of course, some of them are already voting and number of states with early voting underway.

Let's talk about the state of the race now with today's panel. Joining us now, CNN political analyst Laura Barron-Lopez, and "Semafor" political reporter, Kadia Goba.

Good to have you both on.

Laura, talk if you can about the state with Latino voters right now, because the public polling and it seems the private polling by the campaign shows historical weakness for Trump, still leading among them, but not by as much as Democratic candidates need to, to win, as in the past it and some strength among Trump.

Is that largely confined to Latino men? And in your experience, what issue is driving them there? Is it about security at the border? Is it cultural issues, economic issues?

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think the largest the biggest issue for Latino voters who are not a monolith. And we can break it down by which Latino voters you want to talk about, the biggest issue for them is the economy by and large. I've been to North Carolina, to Arizona, and Nevada recently.

And yes, Donald Trump at the moment origins is siphoning off Latino men across age -- across ages and that's something that is happening. That's where Kamala Harris is hurting potentially the most, but with Latinas, she's seen that Latinas are getting more and more active and that young Latinos are much more likely to vote than young Latino men.

And so that's where Harris's campaign is trying to counteract the hemorrhaging there with the Latino vote.

[15:10:02]

Now, the Latino vote in Arizona and Nevada is very different than the Latinos in Florida. So the Latinos that Trump is speaking to in Florida are not necessarily the types of Latinos that he needs to win in those swing state of Nevada and Arizona because the ones in Nevada and Arizona are predominantly Mexican-American and Mexicans are culturally very different than Cubans and Venezuelans in Florida.

Mexicans are also more likely to support abortion despite having a Catholic upbringing. And that's what I encountered especially Mexican women are much more likely to support abortion and abortion is on the ballot in those two states.

SCIUTTO: It's such a good point. I mean, with any voting group that we're talking about, whether it'd be black men, white women, you name it, none of these groups are monolithic and we shouldn't describe them as being monolithic. So I wonder when we look at the strategy then, right now, Kadia, what Harris is introducing today speaks to one of the issues Laura was talking about there, which is economic issues. A number of specific economic plans targeted to Latino voters.

Can you lay out the details of that and what the thinking is there and whether that -- those are the kinds of issues that are driving the discussion for voters?

KADIA GOBA, POLITICAL REPORTER, SEMAFOR: Yeah, I think it was very intentional for the Harris-Walz campaign to, promote a alone for Black and Latino men. This is something that has been an issue when I talked to Black men on the ground, some of them who are leaning toward words or Trump curious. They talk about not having opportunities like their white counterparts.

So I think that was somewhat strategic. We have just making this appeal to men who want to be business owners or want to have more opportunity for generational wealth -- wealth going forward. So, I think this is, I think, yes, there's a specific target for certain groups of Back and Latino men.

SCIUTTO: Laura, I heard Frank Luntz, well-known Republican pollster, describe the race this way, just a short time ago, saying that Harris has got historic support among women and that she's really driving that vote to well win the race, right? But also make up for losses in other groups that have typically been part of the coalition of successful Democratic candidates, including Latino men, Black men, et cetera.

When you speak to the campaigns -- I mean, is that essentially the math here, right, for Democrats -- drive up women in particular, whereas Trump is trying to go into areas of the vote that Republicans typically haven't won before, such as, for instance, Latino men?

BARRON-LOPEZ: I think it's definitely a part of the calculus here, Jim. I was just talking to, you know, the 26-year-old state party chair of North Carolina, Anderson Clayton in North Carolina. And she specifically cited young women as a place where Democrats can drive out, drive-up turnout and potentially offset where they're losing with young men because we're seeing in polling that Gen Z men, in particular those 18 to 27, 28-year-olds, are moving in Trump's direction.

And I was also talking to some young Republicans on college campuses in North Carolina recently, and they said that they feel as though Donald Trump is in their spaces more, he goes on the podcast or is that they listened to and they feel as though he pays attention to and speaks to them a bit more directly than Harris does. Now we've seen that Harris's campaign has tried to counteract that more recently, going on Charlamagne Tha God, issuing these proposals specifically on economy towards Black and Brown men, and trying to be in these spaces in a way that Joe Biden wasn't when he was the candidate.

SCIUTTO: Okay. Big picture question now, before we go for both of you. I'll begin with you, Kadia. You hear from a lot of people right now that there is panic among Democrats as to the state of this race, and listen, I mean, we see the polling and there's a heck of a lot of public polling, some of it goods, some of it not so good. But is that accurate based on your conversations, Kadia, with those in the campaign or is it exaggerated?

GOBA: Well, I talked to operatives outside of the campaign and some of them are concerned in particular, I wrote a story last week about her losing the news cycle after, you know, a very robust and exciting roll-out initially. So, yes, some of them were little -- it said that that campaign was playing it a little safe and they felt like because of that they sort of lost the news cycle.

But yeah, there's a general -- there is a general concern, especially where polling is so tight, even though most of them acknowledged that this was always going to be a very, very tight race.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, that is something I certainly hear from both campaigns, right? Is tight and from heck of a lot of political commentators as well, and pollsters.

[05:15:03]

Laura Barron-Lopez, Kadia Goba, thanks so much to both you.

And still ahead, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken is in Israel as Lebanon reports, dozens killed in Israeli attacks there. We're going to have the latest. Is there any hope in particular for moving forward on a ceasefire or hostage deal in Gaza?

Stay with us. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Welcome back.

The U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken is in Israel today. He's meeting with several officials, including, of course, the Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. You could see them there.

The trip is part of a U.S. effort which will take the secretary around the region to secure a ceasefire hostage deal in Gaza. It's been a long time coming. Progress on that deal has stalled for months, as the prime minister of Israel has pressed ahead, with the wars not only in Gaza, in Lebanon, but even from criticism -- in the face of criticism from many at home, including of course, hostage families.

They're fed up. They protested outside Blinken's hotel in Tel Aviv demanding their loved ones come home.

Blinken's trip coincides with another deadly day in Lebanon. Israeli strikes flattened this building in the Beirut suburbs. More than a dozen deaths were reported from an Israeli attack near Beirut hospital the day before. Lebanon is reporting its highest death toll from Israeli attacks in three weeks, 63 people killed on Monday alone.

Joining me now, CNN Jerusalem correspondent Jeremy Diamond, he's in Tel Aviv. Also with me is Alex Marquardt here in Washington, chief national security correspondent

Jeremy, I want to begin with you because I wonder, you, of course, covered the Gaza war extensively and watching the Israeli military operations in Lebanon closely.

Are you seeing now similarities to the standards that the Israeli military follows in terms of these strikes when it comes to civilian casualties, because, of course, the criticism, including from this the administration, from the Biden administration is not enough tension, attention to civilian casualties and the kind of a general explanation that if you are close to a Hezbollah target, it's Hezbollah's fault if you're killed or injured.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, I certainly think that rationale applies from the Israeli military that ultimately they believe that civilian casualties that are caused by strikes on Hezbollah or Hamas infrastructure that they say are in densely populated civilian areas.

[15:20:05]

That those deaths, according to the Israeli military, are on those organizations.

We know, of course, the reality from international law is that the obligation comes on both sides, both to not put your military infrastructure in civilian areas, but that, that also doesn't move the responsibility of the aggressor to minimize casualties and take precautions on the ground.

Now, in terms of the actual reality, I don't think that what we're seeing in Lebanon as of yet, is quite the same as what we are seeing in Gaza, but we are certainly seeing similar patterns of behavior and we are watching this war in Lebanon continuing to escalate as the Israeli military started first with kind of, you know, purely Hezbollah military targets, issuing a lot of evacuees tuition orders, which they are still doing with some pretty strong frequency, more frequently than they were or have been in the Gaza Strip.

But we're also now watching and the Israeli military beginning to go after other targets, including financial institutions that we saw yesterday and then today, there was this strike, very close to Beirut's largest public hospital, killing 18 people, including four children. The strike was actually across the street from the hospital. There was not an evacuation order in place in that area and shrapnel we're told from that strike actually did damage the hospital itself.

So we are watching as the Israeli military certainly getting closer to the kind of behavior and the kinds of strikes that we've seen from them in Gaza. But I don't think we're quite yet at that point to make that direct comparison. But certainly we are watching things continue to escalate and we, of course, know that Israeli leaders themselves threatened that if Hezbollah doesn't lay down its arms, that ultimately they will turn Beirut, they will turn Lebanon into Gaza.

SCIUTTO: Good Lord. Well, Alex Marquardt, I've lost count of the number of chips that the

U.S. secretary of state has made to the region since October 7. But he's back there again, talking about a deal to secure the release of hostages from Gaza. Also, get a ceasefire and also it seems pushing the Israeli prime minister to get more humanitarian assistance into Gaza.

What are his expectations, the secretary of states, for getting a deliverable as it were, getting some concrete progress on one or both of those issues on this latest trip?

ALEXANDER MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Jim, I believe it's his 11th trip since October 7, and I think at this point, the Biden administration is well aware that they can't go into these trips to Israel with any kind of expectation of what they're going to get out of Israel. But it's -- the message to Israel and its prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, was clear that they see this as an opportunity. In fact, just moments ago, Blinken called it a unique opportunity in his meeting with President Isaac Hertzog to get those Israeli hostages home and to end the war in Gaza.

That was the message that Blinken has been carrying throughout the day to Prime Minister Netanyahu, to the Defense Minister Yoav Golan to then finally, with the president. But when you hear what the Israeli government is saying for its part, it is very different, Jim. So it is not clear that Blinken is going to leave with any kind of deliverable that you're actually discussed -- that you mentioned.

Prime Minister Netanyahu following that meeting with Blinken, putting out his own statement, talking about the continued threat from Iran, the need to continue fighting against Hamas in the Gaza Strip. No mention of the humanitarian aid that the United States has been emphasizing needs to go into not just northern Gaza, but all of the Gaza strip.

So, Jim, it does appear that yet again, the Biden administration and the Netanyahu government are talking past each other, and that despite the fact that for -- in the days since the leader of Hamas, Yahya Sinwar, was killed, we -- we've heard this repeated refrain from the Biden administration that this is a moment, an inflection point in this war, at least could be that Israel does not for now agree with that message -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, sad fact is, we might have heard that inflection point framing more than 11 times in the year since October 7th. We'll see if he gets something to bring home.

Jeremy Diamond, Alex Marquardt, thanks so much.

So what does the impact of the secretary's trip going to Israel and what's the state of Israel's plans for striking back against Iran?

Joining me now to discuss, CNN political and global affairs analyst, Barak Ravid. He's also the "Axios" politics and foreign policy reporter.

Barak, good to have you. Thank you.

BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: So, I wonder what your assessment is of the chances of moving a hostage and ceasefire deal across the finish line. You recently wrote about Egypt presenting a relatively small hostage ceasefire deal, small number of hostages for a short cease-fire. Is that moving forward, do you believe?

[15:25:05]

RAVID: Well, I think that after the elimination of Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar, a lot of people are looking for a lot of ideas to try and do something to try and rock the boat, to try and maybe going new routes that haven't been tried before. Unfortunately, at the moment, there's no movement.

And I think one of the main reasons is that a lot of people in Israel, in Gaza, in the region are still waiting for this tit for tat between Israel and Iran to be over. The Israelis have been waiting for several weeks now to attack Iran, then there'll be an Iranian retaliation. Then the question is whether this will end this thing or we will continue to see attacks and counterattacks.

And I think that until we will not know how this ends, nothing else will move.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you about that, the planning for that strike, because it's been in the offing for some time since that massive Iranian missile barrage on Israel. A couple of -- little more than a couple of weeks back now. The reporting had been that Israel plans to carry out a strike prior to U.S. Election Day, which, of course, is two weeks from now.

Is that still a likely timing in your view? I mean, is the election at all a part of Israel's calculation at this point?

RAVID: Definitely it's part of the calculations and I think at least I don't get the sense or have no evidence that Netanyahu wants to conduct this strike purposely close to the elections in order to try and influence it. The strike as far as I know, were supposed to take place already, one of the only reasons that stopped it is objective reasons like weather conditions that did not allow to go forward in the last few days.

And I think that there's -- it's highly likely that we will see the strike moving forward in the next few days. I think very likely sometime this week.

So it is still very close to the elections. It is still -- even if nobody wants to have an influence on the election, because every major world event has influenced also on the U.S. election. But I don't think there's any -- at least I don't have any evidence that this is on purpose.

SCIUTTO: Yeah. Do -- I mean, listen, there are so many data points for this, and of course, we're not in the room where the Israeli prime minister and his war cabinet make this decision. But would Israel be likely to carry out such an attack while Secretary Blinken is in the region attempting to conduct diplomacy?

RAVID: In the region, yes. In Israel, no. That's why, for example, I don't think we'll see it today. At least that I have any indication that it's planned for today and I think one of the reasons is that Secretary of State Blinken is in Israel. Israel is not going to go on such an attack when he's there. But when he's in other places in the region, I wouldn't rule it out.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, I suppose. Final question is just about the situation in Lebanon because the civilian toll is rising there and you heard me speaking to our reporter on the ground there prior as to the similarities between the conduct of the war in Gaza and Lebanon as relates to civilian casualties. Is Israel repeating, in your view, some of the tactics we saw in Gaza?

And again when I say tactics, I suppose the way to describe it is a high tolerance for civilian casualties when striking military targets?

RAVID: I -- you know, I think -- it's only repeating that, it's also repeating in a way that strategy of Gaza, or the lack of strategy in Gaza, meaning Israel's conducting airstrikes for months now, more heavy airstrikes in the last few weeks, a ground operation two miles from the border with Lebanon but nobody really has an exit strategy.

And therefore, like you saw in Gaza this thing can be in a place where it goes on and on and on into some sort of a perpetual situation that you just cant get out and I think that's -- that's to me the biggest similarity to Gaza, that at the end of the day, the strategy is a perpetual war.

SCIUTTO: Yeah. Yeah, I think last sentence might describe it, right, in quite clear terms. Perpetual war.

Barak Ravid, thanks so much.

Still ahead, the world's richest man is promising millions of dollars in cash to registered voters in swing states. Is that legal? Coming up, we're going to take a look at the law and how Trump ally Elon Musk's giveaway might be -- well, at least stepping up to the line.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:33:28]

SCIUTTO: Tech billionaire Elon Musk is raising genuine legal concerns over his cash sweepstakes for registered voters in battleground states. While stumping for former President Donald Trump, Musk announced he will give away $1 million every day to someone who's picked after signing a petition supporting the First and Second Amendment. Some legal experts believe the lottery could violate election laws.

CNN's Donie O'Sullivan was at a Musk event in Pennsylvania and spoke with some of the people attending.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elon Musk is the smartest man in the world.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elon is a genius. This is a one-time opportunity to see him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm a super Star Trek geek. When those rockets came down, I'm like, you've got to be kidding.

CHRISTINE, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: I respect his opinion. I understand the way he thinks. Being an engineer myself, I can understand some of the quirky things that maybe other people take the wrong way.

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Elon Musk is holding this town hall happening here in Harrisburg, trying to get the vote out for former President Donald Trump.

(voice-over): Musk is pouring tens of millions of dollars into getting Trump elected, even offering cash prizes to registered voters in battleground states.

ELON MUSK, CEO, TESLA: So every day between now and the election, we'll be awarding $1 million starting tonight.

O'SULLIVAN: This, experts say, could be breaking election law.

So you're a big Star Trek guy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

O'SULLIVAN: I've been to a lot of Trump rallies, but this has the feel of like part Comic Con party, right?

[15:35:01]

DAVE FOX, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: There's tons of young people, which I was like surprised that they could usually, you know, like, there's a lot of people like me at a Trump rally, you know, like getting ready to drop over. These are Elon Musk's fans.

SHRAGA FEINBERG, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: He's so cool, man. Why not, right? I mean, he's just so inspirational. What an amazing guy.

What I think he offers is being able to use his platform to bring the truth to more people, people that may not otherwise even give a crap about politics.

DEVIN MOUSSO, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: With all the polarization that there is now, I feel like it's really tough to yank somebody out of their camp. Everybody sees what the algorithms show them. I think most of the people that are big Elon Musk fans are probably on the side of Trump and all that already.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I voted for Biden, you know, in 2020. O'SULLIVAN: You did?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I did. I did.

O'SULLIVAN: And what changed?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What changed is nothing like positive, that's for sure. So you know, I know when Trump was in office, I saw more money on my paycheck.

MOUSSO: I was definitely a bit of a Trump hater, I guess.

O'SULLIVAN: So 2020, you weren't a Trump guy?

MOUSSO: No, no, no. I think I was more on the down the middle, didn't really care about it. I felt everything's just too crazy. I don't want to get involved.

O'SULLIVAN: Yes.

MOUSSO: And this is, I guess, is the most involved I'm getting. I haven't gone to any other rallies, and I probably won't. But --

O'SULLIVAN: So you haven't been to any other political event?

MOUSSO: No, not at all.

O'SULLIVAN: And you either, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, me neither.

MUSK: This might be the very last election that's a real election.

O'SULLIVAN: At some of these town halls, Musk has just been repeating election conspiracy theories.

MUSK: Statistically, there's some very strange things that happen.

O'SULLIVAN: You're not worried about Musk critics who say he's a conspiracy theorist.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People make critics all the time. He's doing what is right for America and the people.

DONALD BICKEL, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: I'm big into science. I do it for a living --

O'SULLIVAN: Yes.

BICKEL: -- so I'm here to see Elon. That's literally why I'm here.

O'SULLIVAN: We met Don Bickel, a Musk superfan and a Pennsylvania state government employee. BICKEL: My appeal for Elon is a lot of the way he likes to break conventions. Working in government for as long -- I like to sometimes smash the silos and just break everything down and build everything back up again.

I had voted for Trump in the past. I traditionally vote Republican. I don't think I'm going to vote Republican this time.

O'SULLIVAN: You don't think Musk is going to change your mind?

BICKEL: I mean, a meteor could strike me. It's possible.

O'SULLIVAN: Don says Musk's debunked conspiracy theories are dangerous.

BICKEL: I think probably Elon's problem is he's so down the rabbit hole what he is in X now that it's really hard to know what's right and wrong.

MUSK: There's always a sort of question of like, say, the Dominion voting machines.

O'SULLIVAN: At one town hall, Musk brought up Dominion voting machines, a frequent subject of conspiracy theories.

MUSK: In my view, we should only do paper ballots, hand counted. That's it.

BICKEL: Here's the funny thing. Even with Dominion, there's still a paper trail.

O'SULLIVAN: Yes.

BICKEL: So you can still hand recount that. I've been working for the state for many years, and heck, my father before me, like Obi-Wan Kenobi, my father before me, he worked for the state for many years.

So I've -- I grew up as a state kid, and I know how the state works in a lot of respects.

O'SULLIVAN: Yes.

BICKEL: So, yes. It's kind of sad when, you know, people like me, who are considered like the, quote, "enemy within" or the deep state, we're just doing our jobs.

O'SULLIVAN: Musk is adding fuel to that fire, right of the demonization of public officials.

BICKEL: Look, the volume for this needs to be taken down.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Our thanks to Donie O'Sullivan for that piece.

So let's talk about the law. CNN senior legal analyst, Elie Honig, former federal prosecutor, joins us now.

Okay. Elie, you know, the law. You're a lawyer, but I'm going to read it for our viewers. This is federal election law against vote-buying, 52 U.S. Code. Whoever knowingly or willfully pays or offers to pay or accepts payment either for registration to vote or vote can face up to five years in prison.

Is what Musk is doing here -- does it violate that law?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: So at a minimum, Jim, it's pretty close to the line. You're right, we need to always start with the statute, with the law itself, from the law, but I'm glad your team pulled that.

So what we know for sure is if a person pays or offers to pay somebody for their vote or to register, definitely a federal crime definitely violates what you just showed us. But what makes this scenario a little different, the wrinkle is it's really a contingency. It's almost like offering a lottery ticket.

What Musk is saying is you are eligible among many, many people to win this daily prize, only if you are registered. And so that's what takes it I think from a slam dunk to a closer case for prosecutors to try to figure out.

SCIUTTO: Is that a case then of this violating the spirit of the law if the violation of the letter of the law is not automatically clear?

HONIG: Well, definitely the spirit, Jim, but prosecutors cant get by on charging the spirit of things. I'd actually -- the Justice Department has given some guidance very limited to its prosecutors. There's a document called the Justice Manual. Every federal prosecutor has on his or her desk. I had mine.

And there's a page deep within their on election crimes and essentially says, if there's a lottery scheme and I think this fits the bill, then that's probably going to fall within this criminal law. It's probably going to fall within be illegal.

[15:40:02]

The problem is, it's sort of speculative because that statement in the DOJ manual is based on one case, helpful, one decision from a Texas appellate court, a federal court in Texas in 1983. So this is a hypothetical largely. We haven't seen situations close to this, but what little guidance there is out there does suggest that it's more towards the illegal side.

SCIUTTO: So I mean, in cases like this, one might be inclined to test the law, right in court but we're quite close to the election two weeks away, so I don't imagine there's any practical chance of a federal prosecutor taking a crack at this before Election Day?

HONIG: So, first of all, prosecutors really do not like to test things. We'd like to let things sort of build up a little bit of precedent. You never want to be the first prosecutor ever to charge something. That said, sometimes you have to take the leap.

In terms of timing, you're exactly right. There's no way DOJ is going to take some action on this and the two weeks between now and Election Day. There's a long-standing DOJ policy that essentially says, we don't do things that might influence an election if we control them as they would with a charge too close to the election.

And if you look at this, Jim, I mean, imagine if DOJ were to indict Elon Musk, I don't think it's particularly likely, but I don't even know. I don't think they would have any way to know who that would help or hurt as between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris and may well antagonize and motivate Donald Trump's supporters more than Kamala Harris supporters could go the other way.

And so DOJ's policy is just we stayed clear of this for that reason.

SCIUTTO: Which makes sense, although one has to wonder what the law is, right, and how we'll clarify, given as you, as the code appears and as you described, at least the possibility that lotteries might fall under it.

So let me ask you this: assuming federal prosecutors don't seem quite unlikely, go after him. Is there a possibility of civil litigation either before or potentially after the election because we've certainly seen a whole host of cases being brought by Republicans on a whole host of issues, the presumption being those are means to challenge results after Election Day.

HONIG: Yeah, for sure. That's something we could say, Jim, which is a civil lawsuit from maybe a political party, may be a candidate, maybe just an interested voter going to a judge. And again, this would not be criminal, but saying I would like an injunction, meaning an official court order at Elon Musk has to stop doing this in civil court.

But you would need to show a couple of things as a person bringing that type of lawsuit. First of all, you'd have to show what we call a cause of action, meaning you have to point to a law and you can't point to the criminal law as we open this segment with some law that says people get to sue for this in court. The other thing you'd have to show is what we call standing, meaning you'd have to show as the plaintiff in a case like this, that you are harmed in some sort of legally cognize boy.

But could we see lawsuits along those lines very soon? That I think is within the realm of feasibility for sure.

SCIUTTO: We should note: 11 former GOP officials and government attorneys. They were urging the attorney general and the Pennsylvania attorney general to investigate Musk's plans.

HONIG: Yeah.

SCIUTTO: Elie Honig, thanks so much for joining.

HONIG: Thanks, Jim. All alright. SCIUTTO: We're going to take a short break. For our international

viewers, "LIVING GOLF" is next. If you're streaming us on Max, well be right back with more after a short break.

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