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Labor Strikes and Hurricanes Weaken Latest Jobs Data; Interview With Michael Moore; Trump Under Fire Over Incendiary Comments About Liz Cheney. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired November 01, 2024 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:32:53]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: The Trump campaign is defending the former president's comments about Liz Cheney. Last night, Trump suggested Cheney should be shot.

I want to bring in historian Tim Snyder. He's an author and history professor at Yale, author of two very important books, "On Tyranny" and "On Freedom" as well.

Tim, I always appreciate talking to you, and I feel like you're the perfect guest this morning.

Your thoughts on Trump's comments about Liz Cheney and what they mean for this election?

TIMOTHY SNYDER, PROFESSOR, YALE UNIVERSITY: Well, first of all, these are not the sorts of things that American politicians have said in the past. This is very unusual, like Trump referring to the enemy within or referring to vermin.

This is a vocabulary we know very well, but it's a vocabulary we know from history and generally the history of other countries and fascist leaders.

And the second thing to recognize here is that the fascist leaders or the totalitarians that we remember, they're not the ones who pulled the trigger themselves. They're the ones who used language like this as they tried to rise to power.

ACOSTA: And, Tim, the Trump campaign is trying to make the case that this is about Liz Cheney and her father and their record as being hawks when it comes to national security and so on.

What's your response to that when you hear that sort of thing from the campaign, the way they're defending the former president?

SNYDER: I mean, I think no framing can possibly excuse the idea that a human being, a fellow American and another politician, should have guns pointed in her face in order to change her mind.

There is no context. There is no excuse. There is no way to make that normal or OK. There's no way to change that so that it can be unheard by the people who might react to what Mr. Trump said. And if one does want to react to that framing, one could just say Mr. Trump thinks that Vladimir Putin is a genius for starting the largest war in Europe since 1945.

ACOSTA: Yes.

And Tim, I mean, one of the things that you and I spoke about in the aftermath of January 6 was how the world is viewing what is taking place in the United States right now.

[11:35:08]

It's easy to get sort of swept up in the heat of the campaign, in the day-to-day narrative news cycles and so on, to miss kind of the big picture, the 30,000-foot picture of what's taking place in the United States right now, when you have the former White House Chief of Staff John Kelly saying that Trump meets the definition of a fascist, when you have the former Joint Chiefs Chairman Mark Milley saying that Trump is fascist to the core.

What is your view of what is taking place right now? How do you put this election in the context of where we have been as a country?

SNYDER: Well, if you -- I have been having a look at headlines around the world and reactions to this, and, of course, everyone who is our friend is shocked by this language, and those who are not our friends and wish us ill don't mention it because they're pleased that things are going in this direction.

In terms of the history of the United States, it helps to take that world reaction into account, because we can always make excuses for ourselves. You can always find a way to say something in American English which will sound vaguely plausible.

But from the point of view of history, this kind of language is definitely unusual and it's the kind of language that we know is the atmospheric of the sort of person who wants not to win an election, but to take power and to change a regime. That's the basic framework.

ACOSTA: And, Tim, I spoke with Anne Applebaum about this earlier this week, and she also looks at these issues as you do so well.

And one of the things that she said, because I asked the question, why is this race so close, why is Trump doing so well, she said, well, this works. And it is kind of an astonishing thing to absorb, but is there some truth to that and that, if it works, what's the message to take that on?

SNYDER: Yes.

Anne is right about that, as about so many other things. And I would add the point that Mr. Trump knows that it works. This is not some kind of comparison that's been imposed on him from the outside. He is familiar, at least intuitively, with the techniques and the history of fascism.

It's not a coincidence that he chose to have his last big rally in Madison Square Garden, where there was a big American Nazi rally in 1939. It's not a coincidence that he's citing word for word things that Hitler and other fascists said in the 1930s. He knows it works.

And so the response is, those of you who don't want this sort of thing but are resistant to these comparisons, you should know that this is not a comparison. When Mr. Trump says he wants Hitler's generals, as he did, he's putting himself inside the story. He's saying, I want to be in the position that Hitler was in. I want to have the relationship to my generals that he had. I want to be able to rule the way that Hitler did.

Some Americans like that, but not enough to elect Mr. Trump.

ACOSTA: All right, Tim Snyder, always appreciate those insights. Again, you're the author of "On Freedom," which is an excellent book that has just come out on many of these issues. I know you have touched on it so many times so eloquently. I hope we can have you on again.

We appreciate the time very much. Thank you, Tim.

SNYDER: Thank you.

ACOSTA: All right, a new poll is shedding some light on how voters in the critical battleground state of Michigan are leaning as Election Day approaches.

Filmmaker, activist, Michigander Michael Moore joins me after a quick break.

Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:43:05]

ACOSTA: Also happening this morning, there's a new jobs report out just four days before the election.

And, in the meantime we also want to show you the stock market, what it's doing right now. It's up about 550 points. But getting back to the jobs report, about 12,000 jobs were added last month.

CNN's Matt Egan is here to explain.

Matt, walk us through the factors shaping these numbers and it doesn't look like the stock market is freaking out over that jobs report. What might all that mean?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Jim, no, the stock market definitely not freaking out about this jobs report.

Now, these numbers out today, they were about as clear as mud. Now, let me run you through the numbers, as you mentioned, 12,000 jobs added in October. That was much worse than expected. That's a sharp slowdown from September. It's actually the weakest figure for this metric since December of 2020 during COVID.

And yet the unemployment rate didn't budge. It stayed at 4.1 percent, which is historically low. So, on the surface, those numbers are kind of hard to square. But we knew all along that this jobs report was going to be really messy because of two big forces. One, there's the worker strikes at Boeing.

The other thing is, there's those back-to-back hurricanes that hit the Southeast. Now, first, on the workers strike, we saw in this report that manufacturing jobs tumbled by more than 40,000 last month alone. And the government said that that drop was -- quote -- "largely due to strike activity."

On the weather front, the Labor Department said the hurricanes also caused weaker numbers here. But they said it's kind of hard to quantify just how big of an impact this storm has had. So, at the end of the day, Jim, this does look like more about Mother Nature and worker strikes than any new alarming trends in the economy.

ACOSTA: And, Matt, I also want to ask you about shares of Donald Trump's media company is -- is down again. They're down again today. What can you tell us about that?

[11:45:01]

EGAN: Well, Jim, this stock was going through the roof for much of October, but that has completely turned around in the last couple days.

You see Trump Media, which owns TRUTH Social, down another 8 percent today. It fell sharply yesterday. On Wednesday, it lost more than 20 percent of its value, the worst day for this stock since it went public back in March. You can see how it was going straight up and now it's going straight down.

Look, Trump Media is probably harder to make sense of than even the jobs report, because these numbers never really made sense. We're talking about a company that brought in just $1.6 million in revenue so far this year, million with an M. I think there's some local pizza shops near where I live that bring in more sales than that.

And yet, even after today's drop, this is a company that's still worth more than $6 billion. For some context, that's worth...

ACOSTA: Yes.

EGAN: ... more than Macy's is worth. That's about what your Washington Commanders are worth.

So, these numbers really never made sense, Jim.

ACOSTA: Yes.

EGAN: But we do know that traders are looking at Trump Media as a way to bet on who's going to win this election. And perhaps there's some nervousness now, because the polls do indicate, Jim, that this could still go either well.

ACOSTA: Absolutely right.

All right, Matt Egan, thanks so much.

Coming up: What's on the minds of voters in the key battleground of Michigan? Filmmaker, activist, Michigander Michael Moore is straight ahead.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:50:45]

ACOSTA: With Election Day just around the corner, the critical battleground state of Michigan could go either way.

The CNN poll of polls, our latest one has Vice President Kamala Harris with a slight edge in that state, but there's no clear leader at this point.

And joining me now is filmmaker, activist, Michigan native Michael Moore.

Michael, good to see you. I mean, there's a lot to talk about. I wish we had time to get it all in there. But -- we won't, but, I mean, what's your sense of Michigan right now? What's this going to come down to?

MICHAEL MOORE, FILMMAKER/AUTHOR: Well, I mean, I have been very hopeful and optimistic. I'd like to stay in that headspace.

I...

(LAUGHTER)

MOORE: But I'm a lifelong in Michigan. I know what the situation is. There are over 300,000 Arab and Muslim Americans, registered voters in the state of Michigan.

Biden and Harris won Michigan. They got 70 percent of the Arab vote four years ago. As of May, seven months into the war in Gaza, that had gone from 70 percent for Harris/Biden to 12 percent.

ACOSTA: Yes.

MOORE: Now, Kamala Harris has now brought it back up. It's over, I think, 43 percent now. That's great.

But it still looks -- if you go by these numbers, and I don't necessarily go by them, but she could lose Michigan by 40,000 votes. Hillary lost to Trump in 16 by two votes per precinct average, two votes per precinct. That's all that was.

ACOSTA: Wow. Yes. MOORE: So, to be down 40,000 votes -- so what I and others have done

in the last few weeks trying to get out the vote and trying to make up for the people who have lost people in this war, who know friends, relatives who are suffering in Gaza, in West Bank, all of that.

Very hard to point your finger at them and say, you have to vote, Trump is worse. And their answer is, yes, he wouldn't let us fly. It was a travel ban. This is 42,000 dead of my relatives and friends and neighbors and my people.

So, that's what...

(CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: Yes, Michael, that's what the Harris campaign has said: Do you think it's going to be better under Donald Trump?

Is that message resonating in that community?

MOORE: No, I don't really think it is, because I don't think you can -- when you're full of grief, and it's your people -- this would be like -- let's just say this was the 1964 election, when Lyndon Johnson's the Democrat, and you're going down to Alabama to say to black people, you have to vote for George Wallace and the Democrats.

It's like, no, who would do that? Who would go down to Alabama and tell -- people are being lynched. People are dying.

ACOSTA: Yes.

MOORE: This is -- it's very personal.

But here's the hope. There are two million nonvoters in Michigan. They're registered. They don't usually vote. Our whole goal for the last month is just -- and I do this personally in Michigan. I just -- I think you all know me.

ACOSTA: Yes.

MOORE: Just for me, as a favor, just this once, please vote for Kamala Harris. And you could go back to being a nonvoter on November 6.

ACOSTA: I hear you.

But -- and I do want to ask you about one thing, Michael, and that is -- I mean, because you took on the car industry in your very first documentary, "Roger & Me," made you famous. And, I mean, I wonder how much of the conversation in Michigan right now is about Trump's promise of tariffs, which could obviously raise prices and experts have said could hurt the automotive industry.

Are folks talking about that? Are union workers? Yes.

MOORE: And people know that. Autoworkers -- yes, autoworkers know that. People know that. People are not stupid. Michigan, it's a very educated state. And people are well aware of all

this. And I think that -- what I just want to encourage your viewers to do is, this weekend, get out your phone. You have got your contacts, and literally spend Saturday and Sunday just calling people you know to make sure they're voting.

ACOSTA: You're that worried? You're that worried, Michael? You're...

(CROSSTALK)

MOORE: Well, of course I am, because, sadly, President Biden, who I love, has made -- has this critical flaw in hugging Benjamin Netanyahu and supporting the slaughter of civilians. None of us support this. Kamala Harris doesn't support it.

[11:55:04]

Your own reporting has told us through this year that she's tried to make her voice heard about, you just cannot kill civilians, babies, children, old people, off the table.

ACOSTA: Yes.

MOORE: And you can't use our weapons that you and I pay for. Can't do that.

And so I think -- I'm hoping that -- we're trying to get that message through. And we're trying to get the nonvoters to vote. We're trying to -- in the Hillary election...

ACOSTA: Yes.

MOORE: ... when she lost, 75,000 Michiganders did not vote on the top line. They actually showed up to vote. They refused to vote for either Trump or Hillary.

ACOSTA: Yes. Well, and I remember that race. I was in Midtown with Trump that night.

And one of the key flaws of that campaign, Bill Clinton was saying, Hillary Clinton, you should go campaign in Michigan, and she really didn't pay enough attention to it, like she should have, and it hurt her. Kamala Harris not making that same mistake.

But, Michael Moore, I wish we had...

MOORE: oh, no. She's going to be there, I think, most of the weekend. That's right.

ACOSTA: Yes. Yes.

MOORE: No, huge mistake for not going to Michigan and Wisconsin in 2016.

ACOSTA: That's right. Yes.

MOORE: But -- and you were there the night that Trump was -- became president, right?

ACOSTA: That's right, yes?

MOORE: And he -- when he -- when they all walked out at 2:30 in the morning onto the stage.

ACOSTA: I was there, yes.

MOORE: I never -- I -- yes, I never saw a sadder looking group of people, like, oh, my God, this actually happened.

ACOSTA: Well...

MOORE: I don't think they really expected it to happen.

ACOSTA: Well, we will see what happens this time around, yes.

(CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: I got to -- but I got to go because I...

(CROSSTALK)

MOORE: ... in Washington, D.C.

ACOSTA: We will talk again. We will stay in touch. Thank you.

MOORE: Anyway, Jim, thank you for all the good work that you do.

ACOSTA: Thank you.

MOORE: And thank you for being banned from the White House in 2018.

(LAUGHTER)

ACOSTA: Thank you, Michael. I appreciate it.

I'm going to be banned by Dana Bash if I don't hand it off to her next. Michael, thanks so much.

Dana Bash is next. Have a good day.