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Trump Moves Swiftly to Install Top Allies In Key Roles; Trump Demands Senate Republican Leader Allow Him To Use Legal Loophole To Confirm Nominees Without Senate Approval; Key Israeli Minister Calls For West Bank Annexation; United Nations Summit On Global Warming Begins. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired November 11, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:27]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: It's 8:00 p.m. in London, 10:00 p.m. in Kyiv, 3:00 p.m. here in Washington. I'm Jim Sciutto. Thanks for joining me today on CNN NEWSROOM.

And let's get right to the news.

President-elect Donald Trump promised the largest domestic deportation operation in American history. Today, we are beginning to see how exactly that could be done, starting with the who. Trump is tapping two immigration hard liners for top jobs in his administration.

Sources tell CNN that Stephen Miller is seen as the architect of Trump's first term immigration policies will, in the coming days, be announced as deputy White House chief of staff for policy. And Trump has already announced that Tom Homan, the former acting ICE director, will be a border czar.

These are two major roles on what Trump said would be his number one priority. But there is still several influential positions to fill and Palm Beach, all around Mar-a-Lago is buzzing with Trump allies now jockeying to fill those positions.

Following it all for us, CNN senior political analyst Mark Preston.

First, I want to begin with the Stephen Miller appointment. Longtime Trump adviser with some quite by any measure extreme views on immigration and what it means to be an American. I want to play how he laid out Trump's immigration plans a short time ago and get your thoughts. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN MILLER, LONGTIME TRUMP ADVISER: Who's going to stand up and say, the cartels are gone, the criminal migrants are gone, the gangs are gone, America is for Americans and Americans only?

You get in, you have two policy objectives that you proceed with utter determination on. Seal the border. No illegals in, everyone here goes out. Now we have ten plus million people who are not schooled or trained in

our constitution, in our system of government, in our way of life. Now you have a situation where the country is being changed socially, culturally, constitutionally, in nearly irrevocable ways.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Remember, Donald Trump himself used the terms poisoning the blood of this country. So you have him and you have Homan as border czar.

MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Right.

SCIUTTO: Mass deportations. Are we going to see this play out in that form?

PRESTON: Well, America is for Americans and Americans only, Stephen Miller's own lips.

Look, I don't think its going to play out the way that it has been discussed up to this point. I do think you are going to see two people who understand the levers of governor -- of government. They understand how to get things moving.

SCIUTTO: That's the difference.

PRESTON: That's the difference, right? So when Donald Trump came in, right, Jim, when Donald Trump came into office, you know, it was a whole new administration. Now you have all of these years now, eight years of folks to truly understand how to work government. And Donald Trump is putting people in positions that understand government.

SCIUTTO: Susie Wiles, his chief of staff, she said, and seemed quite deliberately to say this time the clown car wont be stopping at the White House. She's aware that you've had some quite extreme people that the Trump has welcomed into the White House and Mar-a-Lago during the last four years.

Is Miller part of that clown car? I mean, do you see sides of this administration forming, right? A sort of more extreme right, with I don't middle of the road works anymore. But you know what I'm saying? A more professional class.

PRESTON: I think when Susie was talking about the clown car, I don't think she's necessarily speaking about Stephen Miller. Stephen Miller, whether you like his views or whether you don't like his views, okay, he is still like an incredibly smart person. He has Donald Trump's ear. Donald Trump believes in his policy proposals.

His title is deputy chief of staff doesn't really belie how influential Stephen Miller will be. However, to your point, there does seem to be these concentric circles that all form around certain people in Donald Trump land, and some of those folks could be considered clowns. And I think that you and I without -- without making anyone sad on their Monday, would be included in that category. Susie Wiles extremely efficient, extremely serious. Even John Morgan, the huge Democratic donor in the United States, he

himself lives in Florida, he said something nice about Susie Wiles.

SCIUTTO: And listen, you know, worse than clowns. And if you talk about a Nick Fuentes who you know espoused outright racial views, I mean his comments about women post-election, just you know, frankly offensive. How does then the Senate majority leader race factor into this and how do you see the Scott-Cornyn-Thune candidacies as it were, as it expression of where the administration is going?

PRESTON: Well, well, certainly, as folks are watching around the world right now trying to make sense of what happened just less than a week ago they now have to focus in on the United States Senate because for a couple of reasons.

[15:05:06]

One reason is Donald Trump has all -- will very likely have all three branches of government, okay?

But in addition to that, he will have the next four years of the United States Supreme Court to appoint somebody to one of those positions should something happen to one of the justices, or if one of those justices decide to retire during his term. Right now, we have Rick Scott from Florida, incredibly wealthy. He is -- will do and say anything Donald Trump wants him to do. He needs to be.

He's been very -- forward facing in that he has the support of Elon Musk. He has the support of Tucker Carlson, Charlie Kirk, he has all these MAGA supporters.

However, John Thune, John Cornyn, both Republican insiders in the United States Senate, have been there a long time. Jim. It is a secret ballot, so that is why people think the likes of John Thune will win the election, because nobody has to acknowledge who they vote.

SCIUTTO: They win against say, what Trump might want.

PRESTON: That's exactly what --

SCIUTTO: The magic of the secret ballot.

Mark Preston, thanks so much.

PRESTON: Thanks, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Well, how quickly can Trump's cabinet nominees get approved? The president-elect is hoping to speed things up, pushing Republican senators empowered by recapturing the majority to use recess appointments to fill those positions, in fact demanding that any such candidate supports that move.

Manu Raju joins me now to explain.

Manu, tell us exactly what Trump's position is on this and are those Senate leadership candidates responding? MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, they are

falling in line. Remember, the Senate typically does not like to give allow a president to come in and make recess appointments because essentially that's short circuits the entire confirmation process, essentially allows the president to install his cabinet appointee without having a vote of the United States Senate. But that has been denied over recent years, really since 2007. At that time, the then majority leader, Harry Reid, tried to block George W. Bush from installing making recess appointments.

So, he took a procedural step to effectively prevent the Senate from formally going into recess. But now what Trump is calling for is that he wants the Senate not to have those essentially go into an extended recess when they go out of town, change the approach that has happened over the last number of years and allow him to essentially and put his nominees in directly.

And very quickly, you saw all three of those leadership candidates, Rick Scott being the first one to come say, yes, Mr. President, I support that. Same with John Thune. The current number two Republican, and Senator John Cornyn who used to be the number two Republican, all saying, yes, they should do that even though, Jim, they will have 53 seats in the United States Senate, and they can pass and confirm these nominees along party lines without Democratic support but by doing that, if they go that route, essentially that would allow Trump to quickly get these nominees in place and cut out the Senate altogether. So we'll see if they ultimately do that.

But right now, they're indicating they're falling in line.

SCIUOTTO: And it would be the Senate giving up a constitutional power voluntarily, right? Which is remarkable. I mean, that's what, you know, confirmation is all about.

Okay. So tell us about the race for leadership and I wonder, do you share, Mark Preston's view expressed just a couple of moments ago that because of the secret ballot, it's more likely than not that a Cornyn or a Thune wins this, as opposed to Rick Scott, who has a lot of support from the MAGA end of the party.

RAJU: Yeah, absolutely. It would be a shock in the Senate if Rick Scott were to pull off what would be a pretty dramatic upset here. He does have support. It's both a small faction of the Senate Republicans. Remember, there are 53 -- likely 53. We have not called the Pennsylvania race yet. Dave McCormick is leading that candidate in that race.

So potentially they have 53 seats. That means a majority of senators in that 53 member Senate GOP would have to vote for the leadership. Rick Scott probably has maybe a dozen or so senators to support. He does not seem to have a majority, and this could go into multiple ballots.

What would happen is that the person who has the least number of votes would fall off. Then there would be a second round of balloting, and then the majority of whoever gets the majority vote in that second, or potentially third round would become the next leader. And it is widely seen within the Senate.

It is probably Thune or it's Thune and Cornyn to lose. It's hard to handicap between the two of them. Those two, both long time insiders, lots of relationships, have fundraised millions of dollars for their fellow Republicans. So it's a kind of a jump ball at the moment between those two men.

SCIUTTO: All right. To the House, I know it's still not official at this point, although Republicans leading in the majority of those seats still not called. How soon do we expect to know who controls the House?

RAJU: We could know within a matter of days. It's unclear exactly, because a lot of these key swing districts are in California. California takes a long time to count mail in ballots. In particular, it took eight days for this, for CNN to call the House that was back in the 2022 midterms.

[15:10:02]

As you can see on your screen right there, though, Jim, Republicans are knocking on the door of 218 seats. They have 214 right now, 218 are needed for the majority, and they are clearest chance of picking up, getting to probably where similar to where they are right now, which is maybe 221, maybe 222 seats.

But that is still a very narrow majority for Republicans do maintain their majority. That means the speaker of the House, Mike Johnson, assuming he's speaker again, will have once again little margin for error to pass his agenda.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, we saw how difficult it was with that thin majority in the last congressional term. Manu Raju on the Hill. Thanks so much.

RAJU: Thanks, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So, of course, it's not just the personnel. The president- elect's policy agenda also very much coming into focus front and center in foreign policy, the war in Ukraine. Trump has already spoken to the Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy. "The Washington Post" reported he also spoke with President Vladimir Putin, though the Kremlin denies that call.

On the campaign trail, Trump repeatedly promised to bring an end to the war by inauguration day without specifying exactly how.

Watching all of this take shape is Congressman Mike Quigley, Democrat from Illinois, currently co-chairs the congressional Ukrainian caucus, has also spent a lot of time in Ukraine, including quite recently.

Thanks so much for joining us and congratulations on your reelection.

REP. MIKE QUIGLEY (D-IL): Thank you. I'm glad to be back, rather under a different circumstances, but work to do.

SCIUTTO: Okay. I want to get to Ukraine policy before I do, just -- just a political question here. Your district in the state of Illinois, blue state. We're still waiting for the final results. But -- but it does look like that state among several blue states shifted right? Eight points in the case of Illinois. Why -- why do you think Democrats lost ground there?

QUIGLEY: Look, we can talk about all the other social issues, it has and always will be about the economy first, you know, I saw the exit polling and I think we can read into it, you know, 62 percent think the nations going in the wrong direction, 58 percent unfavorable on the current president, almost all that having to do with the economy.

So I think that's your answer. First and foremost, I think it's swamped every other issue.

SCIUTTO: Okay, let's talk about Ukraine. You recently visited there. I'm curious how your Ukrainian contacts are reacting to this election. Are they fearful that Donald Trump will end U.S. military support for Ukraine and force Ukraine's hand into making a deal with Russia?

QUIGLEY: Look, the very real concerns we barely got the funding done out of the house last time because the House was in control of the Republicans.

A handful of votes. The Reagan doctrine is dead among the Republican Party so with the Trump presidency emboldening that, it's hard to imagine getting a funding package done.

So, obviously, President Trump doesn't want that. So that's the best case scenario. The worst case is he forces their hand into some sort of forced peace deal and what does that mean? It means Putin's rewarded with land grabs for his attack on Ukraine. It means he's not held accountable for war crimes. You know, are there going to be any security concerns taken care of? It's a bleak picture at this point.

SCIUTTO: One of Trump's campaign advisers, Bryan Lanza, gave something of a vision into Trump's plan. He told the BBC that what Trump is looking for is a, quote, realistic vision for peace and that if President Zelenskyy comes to the table and says we can only have peace if we also have Crimea, he shows to us, this is Bryan Lanza speaking that he's not serious.

Do you -- and listen, by the way, in my own reporting, I know some Democrats who don't believe winning Crimea back -- Crimea specifically as separate from eastern parts of Ukraine is realistic. Do you believe that Donald Trump will force Ukraine to give up land to make peace including Crimea?

QUIGLEY: Well, I think no doubt he's going to force them to give up Crimea. The other concerns is all the other land, vital land to the economy and the safety and future concerns and how to protect itself in the future. If Putin's not going to take this as the final effort here, he's long had visions not just beyond Ukraine, not just here, but beyond Ukraine.

So for him to be given an extra footing deep in the heart of Ukraine where he can restock, learn from his mistakes, rebuild and understand that he's never going to be punished, never held accountable for the things he's done. We haven't even talked about the fact that the extraordinary cost of rebuilding Ukraine is that part of these deals.

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

QUIGLEY: Is Putin going to be held accountable for some of that? I doubt it under a Trump administration.

SCIUTTO: Listen, it wouldn't be the first time that Putin got away with a land grab. Georgia in 2008, Ukraine in 2014.

[15:15:02]

And then again, I mean, I know and as you know, that folks in eastern Europe see that as a -- in effect -- welcoming the next land grab by Putin, I wonder, there's a point of view I will hear from some Trump supporters and some in his orbit that listen, Trump does not want to be seen as weak.

So while he doesn't love the Ukraine war, he also doesn't want Putin to come away from any deal imagining that he got the better of Trump. One, do you buy that analysis and does that give you hope that Trump, while in office might say, well actually, I'm going to push for something better. I'm not going to force Ukraine's hand.

QUIGLEY: Look, I'll hold out all hope if it gives some aid to what we're trying to accomplish there, but look, I've been, as you said to Ukraine, four times in Poland, five times since the war started. All our military leaders from Ukraine, Poland and the U.S. have said the same thing. Any rewarding of Putin's aggression invites further bloodshed, not just there, but elsewhere in Eastern Europe. It is opening the door to that aggression. The voices from 1939 cry out, remind us that this, this sort of appeasement doesn't work.

And if Trump wants to forever be the tough, guy, well, let's be a tough guy to the guy who needs it most, Putin.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, think of Churchill, right? An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile thinking he'll be its last meal.

I want to talk about Elon Musk's role in all this, because for some reason, he was on the call between Trump and Zelenskyy. At the beginning of the war, as you remember, Musk was actually a big advocate for Ukraine. He sent his Internet service Starlink, which has been vital for the Ukrainian military.

He has since changed and joined that Republican camp that has criticized Ukraine, talked about money waste. Where do you think Musk comes down on this? Could he, because of his early position on the war, maybe push Trump towards a more supportive position?

QUIGLEY: It's hard to figure not being on the call exactly what that means. I mean, he had his own peace plan and I think, what, 2022 that Zelenskyy was particularly happy with.

But, of course, he's gone along since then with the -- with the Trump plan. Is he on the call -- is a less than subtle reminder of Starlink. And what that might mean, further pressure on Zelenskyy to end the war quicker than he might want to, and give up more than he might want to. It's all speculation now, but it's hard to see musk as the great peacemaker who's concerned about Ukraine's autonomy.

SCIUTTO: One more question before we go, do you fear that Trump might again, we should remember he tried to get out in the first term, at least briefly, from NATO. Do you believe that the U.S. participation us being part of NATO is in question in a second Trump term?

QUIGLEY: Look, I don't think he's changed his views on NATO at all. I mean, he has said some extreme things. Do you believe any of those at any one point? One is Putin can do whatever he wants to the NATO people who don't contribute enough.

It is a great concern and obviously it begins with what happens in Eastern Europe and Ukraine, I think it sends a message because if we were to cut off our aid to Ukraine, I think we're going to lose some NATO allies I think Biden's biggest foreign policy accomplishment was uniting NATO against Putin and rebuilding that, and even adding.

So, you know, it was really in trouble at the beginning of the Biden administration. Do we see the beginnings of trouble again for NATO under a Trump administration? I think there's real problems.

SCIUTTO: Congressman Mike Quigley, thanks so much for taking the time.

QUIGLEY: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, the election of Donald Trump here in the U.S. is already having effects on policy in other countries. Still ahead, how a far right Israeli leader is using the election result to bolster a push for annexing settlements in the West Bank.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:22:15]

SCIUTTO: It only took six days for Israel's far right government to attempt to capitalize on Donald Trump's White House. Bezalel Smotrich, Israel's finance minister in charge of West Bank settlements and a far right extremist, has instructed his government to begin preparations for annexation of those settlements.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEZALEL SMOTRICH, ISRAEL'S FINANCE MINISTER: I intend, with God's help, to lead a government decision that says that the government of Israel will work with the new administration of President Trump and the international community to apply the Israeli sovereignty over Judea and Samaria, and for American and international recognition, and to the end of the Israeli-Arab conflict in the Middle East.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SCIUTTO: In January 2020, then President Donald Trump unveiled a peace plan alongside Benjamin Netanyahu, which allowed Israel to declare sovereignty over certain areas of the West Bank. They coined it as the deal of the century. Palestinians, not involved in that deal.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond is in Tel Aviv.

Jeremy, clearly, Smotrich sees an ally in the White House, now in Donald Trump. Does his position characterize Benjamin Netanyahu's position as well and is this an expectation they have that Donald Trump will give them the ability to annex these settlements?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's no indication right now that this is an explicit move, and particularly with the timing of it, that the Israeli prime minister supports.

And we haven't heard from him yet since this announcement by Bezalel Smotrich.

But we know, of course, that Netanyahu has consistently kind of supported and facilitated the efforts of right wing members of his government to continue to promote settlement activity in the West Bank. But the last time that Netanyahu had the opportunity to move towards annexation in 2020, after Donald Trump released that peace plan, he ultimately pulled the brakes on -- on that one. So that is -- is notable here.

But there's no question that Bezalel Smotrich and other members of this current right wing Israeli government see an enormous opportunity with Donald Trump coming into office. They certainly believe that they will get more leeway under Trump than they have under President Biden. And there's reason, of course, for them to believe that when you look at whether it is that deal of the century proposal that you just characterized or you look at, you know, recognizing Israeli annexation of the occupied Golan Heights or the move to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital and move the U.S. embassy there.

We have seen a slew of instances where Donald Trump in the past, as president has indeed skewed towards not only Israel's position, but the position of Netanyahu's own government.

[15:25:06]

And so there's certainly an expectation that they will see something very similar. Of course, what we also know is that Trump has several times indicated that he wants to see the war in Gaza wrap up. Now under what terms would that be? It remains to be seen. And Donald Trump has also tended to speak out of both sides of his mouth on this issue.

But there's no question that the right wing of the Israeli government, of Israeli politics here is certainly welcoming. President Trump's election victory and hoping, as you see in this move from Smotrich, that it enables them to carry out a lot of the things that they would like to carry out, but that they know they would face blowback currently from the Biden administration.

SCIUTTO: Jeremy Diamond, thanks so much.

Here to discuss more broadly, CNN politics and global affairs analyst Barak Ravid.

Good to have you on.

You've reported that Trump and Netanyahu have already spoken three times in recent days, and that also Netanyahu is sending his confidant, Ron Dermer, former Israeli ambassador to the U.S. to meet the president-elect.

There's a point of view, you hear it in this country, certainly heard it in Israel, that Trump will give Netanyahu everything he wants in this second term. Is that a reasonable view? Is that the right one?

BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL & GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, first, you know, it's too soon to predict the future. But if we look at Trump's previous term in office, I think it's a mixed bag. Meaning on the one hand, he did give Netanyahu many, many things, especially by the way, the recognition of Israeli sovereignty over the Golan Heights which Trump saw as a gift for Netanyahu before a crucial election campaign, that, you know, he made this decision several weeks before the election, and obviously, the decisions on Jerusalem and others.

But on the other hand, when it came to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Trump put on the table a plan that, you know, you can think it's a good plan, you can think it's a bad plan, but it was a plan for a two-state solution with a Palestinian capital in East Jerusalem, something that, for example, President Biden did not do.

And when Netanyahu wanted to annex parts of the West Bank, Donald Trump pulled the brakes on him and told him no. He actually pulled the brakes on him twice on this thing, once in January 2020, and another time in July 2020. So I think it's a mixed bag and we still need to see how Trump is going to deal with this issue this time around.

SCIUTTO: It's so important to remember that because folks can quickly forget developments like you just reminded us of. Okay, let's talk about the wars in Gaza and Lebanon because Trump, of course, said on the campaign trail, it's time for Israel to wind down the war, at least in Gaza.

Do you believe that Trump applies some pressure now on Netanyahu, both in Gaza and Lebanon, by the way, in Lebanon, there seems to be some at least some momentum towards -- towards a ceasefire deal even prior to the election?

RAVID: Yeah, I think it's Trump said publicly, both about the war in Lebanon and about the war in Gaza, that it won. He wants to see them wrapping up. He said, I want this to end quickly.

And he said, it quite some time ago. So I think that if it's up to Trump, he would want this -- those two wars to end by January 20th. I'm not sure he will be able to get it. When it comes to Lebanon, I think there's some chance about Gaza. I don't see that happening before January 20th, but the question is if tomorrow, sorry, on Wednesday, when President Biden meets President- elect Trump in the Oval Office, can they -- can those these two reach an understanding about how they can work together on ending those wars because if they work together, Netanyahu will be in a very, very big problem continuing those wars.

SCIUTTO: No question.

Okay, so let's talk about Iran before we go. Prior to the election, the Biden administration was applying pressure on Israel in terms of its retaliation for Iran's missile attack on Israel, not to strike oil facilities and nuclear facilities.

Do you believe that Donald Trump might do the same? Donald Trump doesn't want the oil prices to spike just as he's coming into office certainly. Or do you see Trump saying, stay away from the oil facilities, but you're okay to hit the nuclear facilities? What's your view?

RAVID: Well, my view is that we heard Donald Trump saying several times that he wants to try and get a deal with Iran. And I think he will try and do that, I guess he will do that through imposing a lot of pressure on the Iranians, trying to get them back to the table. The Iranians are signaling that they also want to some sort of a new nuclear deal.

On the other hand, when it comes to giving Netanyahu the green light for striking Iran's nuclear facilities, I think Trump would be much more, you know, quote/unquote, liberal on this issue than Joe Biden.

SCIUTTO: We'll be watching Barak Ravid, thanks so much.

RAVID: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, the results of the U.S. presidential election loom large over the United Nations climate summit that began just earlier today. Just in the days after the U.S. election, of course, Donald Trump has called climate change a hoax.

What's the impact? We'll take a look, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Well, speaking of the environment, breaking news on another appointment by President-elect Trump. He has now selected former New York Congressman Lee Zeldin to serve as administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency. Zeldin, who lost the 2022 New York governor's race to Kathy Hochul, has remained close to Trump, regularly appearing at Mar-a-Lago throughout Trump's 2024 campaign.

The U.N. Summit on Global Warming and the planet's climate and energy future is now underway in Azerbaijan, which is also known as COP 29, comes as experts say governments must accelerate their efforts to limit climate change, though, of course, there's growing anxiety about Trump's promise to pull the U.S. out of the Paris climate agreement. And, well, his repeated statements that climate change, though all the evidence were seeing before us every day, is somehow a hoax.

CNN chief climate correspondent Bill Weir joins us now.

First, tell me what the mood is at COP 29. And what does the group hope to accomplish given Trump is returning to office? The U.S. is the world's number one polluter, and you can't do anything without the U.S. not only involved, but leading, really?

[15:35:06]

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Jim. There's already frustration around the COP process, even from the most earnest delegates who did the hard yards of trying to get 200 countries to agree on anything because there's a suspicion that the big fossil fuel interests and petro states have captured the process. Last year was held in the Emirates, even though the world decided and announced that that was the transition away from fossil fuels. This one and this little petro state on the Caspian Sea.

You know, the site was picked according to fairness. It's supposed to go to Eastern Europe and Putin didn't want it to be held in Poland.

So here we are and none of the boldface names, Keir Starmer of the U.K. the only G-7 leader present. No -- no presidents of China or India or the United States or Russia there. The Taliban has a presence for the first time oddly at this COP.

So, there's general, you know, dissatisfaction with the signal this is sending. But the specter of all of that, again, as you mentioned, is the United States electing the most notorious climate denier of modern times. And Lee Zeldin, his new EPA commissioner, ran for New York Governor lost a couple of years ago. But his platform was very much like Trump's. He opposed the gas fracking ban in New York state, wanted to open that up against a lot of environmental protections, which Trump has promised in a transactional way.

But what it does for diplomacy around the world, for vulnerable countries, for countries that have been promised hundreds of billions of dollars to prepare and now may be left with their hands out with this kind of leadership coming in, it's anyone's guess, Jim. And it just made a really, really difficult task for humanity that much harder.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, I feel like holding a climate conference there is like holding a health and wellness conference at a fast food restaurant anyway.

WEIR: Sure.

SCIUTTO: Given, you know, Azerbaijan well, you know, its a petro -- petro state. Let's talk about Elon Musk. Clearly, you know, he's -- he's in tight with Trump now all the money he threw into his campaign he also happens to run America's biggest electric vehicle company. And I wonder in your view, is it possible that Musk leveraging that personal relationship can push Trump in a more climate friendly direction?

WEIR: That's a good question. You know, he's very influential President Trump is, his son, Don Jr., is an outdoorsman. Nudged him on a big copper mine up in Alaska because Don Jr. liked fly fishing up there. Elon Musk, of course, has the EV companies, but he also is very much into bitcoin, which has an energy demand that kind of negates that from EV benefits.

So it's hard to know where he stands. He's very transactional as well right now, but John Podesta is in Baku. He is the chief climate envoy for this sort of lame duck Biden presidency. But trying to make the case that it's not going to stop. We still have states like California, fifth largest economy in the world, going full steam ahead on clean energy.

Here's what John Podesta said today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN PODESTA, SENIOR ADVISER TO PRESIDENT BIDEN FOR CLEAN ENERGY INNOVATION & IMPLEMENTATION: What I want to tell you today is that while the United States federal government under Donald Trump may put climate change action on the back burner, the work to contain climate change is going to continue in the United States with commitment and passion and belief. As President Biden said in the Rose Garden last week, setbacks are unavoidable, but giving up is unforgivable.

This is not the end of our fight for a cleaner, safer planet. Facts are still facts. Science is still science. The fight is bigger than one election, one political cycle in one country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: About 70 percent of the American GDP is produced in big cities, often with progressive mayors who are very progressive on climate as well. So the message at Baku, Jim, is a lot of the momentum is going in this direction. A lot of the inflation reduction money has been spent in Republican states. These incentives for families to buy heat pumps or EVs or more efficient stoves is way more popular than even anticipated so the direction probably won't be shaken by the Trump presidency but the pace and the scale certainly might be.

SCIUTTO: Listen, maybe that's the hope, right? The hope is that the economics of this make it not just a no brainer, but raise the costs for pulling out. We'll see. We know you'll be on it.

Bill Weir, thanks so much.

WEIR: You bet.

SCIUTTO: Well, today is Veterans Day here in the United States. Coming up, a tale of two commanders in chief. How the Pentagon is preparing for the incoming Trump administration with some real concern.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [15:42:49]

SCIUTTO: In what's expected to be his final visit to Arlington National Cemetery as commander in chief, President Biden commemorated Veterans Day today with a message of unity.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have many obligations, but only one truly sacred obligation, sacred, to prepare those we send into harms way and to care for them and their families when they return home and when they don't. It's an obligation not based on party or politics but on a promise that unites us all.

And today, as we strive on to finish the work of our moment, to bind the nation's wounds once again, we commit and recommit to the sacred vow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: On the campaign trail, Donald Trump, for his part threatened to use the military against political opponents whom he called the enemy within, and to fire civil servants who he deems not loyal to himself.

Pentagon officials are now discussing how to respond to potentially unlawful orders from the president-elect.

Former commanding general of the U.S. Army Europe and Seventh Army, retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling joins me now.

Good to have you on, sir.

I know you're retired now, but you still have a lot of active contact with people in senior positions in the Pentagon. It's CNN's reporting that the Pentagon is debating how it would respond to any unlawful orders issued by the president-elect one defense official told CNN they're preparing for the worst case scenario.

I wonder do you believe they consider that an outlier or something that they might very well have to deal with it?

MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANLAYST: It's certainly a contingency, Jim. And what I'll tell you is that there were quite a few people, even during the summer, retirees who were participating in war games, contingency games to check out, planning on what might happen where military and governmental officials asked to do things that might violate the constitutional norm.

So it's no surprise to me. And I've talked to a couple people in the pentagon that they are conducting these war games to basically play out eventualities, contingencies of what might occur.

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It's a good idea, and it's what the military does. They always plan. SCIUTTO: So lets talk about one of those possibilities as you may

remember, in the summer of 2020, Trump actually fired his then defense secretary, Mark Esper, in part because he opposed deploying active duty military on protesters on the campaign trail. Trump repeatedly suggested doing exactly that against the enemy within that phrase, we've heard so often. What would happen under those circumstances if he were to attempt to do so, as president?

HERTLING: Well, a commander would evaluate any kind of order from his or her chain of command based on the rules of law and the constitutional requirements. And if any order is illegal in view of the military commander, then they have to say, I will not obey that order. That's critical.

The thing that might be troublesome or might cause some challenges is if the civilian authorities who may not be, you know, even though they also Constitution, we violate that constitutional norm and perhaps issue illegal orders, then its up to the military, the military commanders, by law, to refuse any -- any illegal order. I believe that will continue to happen because it is embedded in the military psyche and the military culture.

SCIUTTO: Let's talk more broadly for a moment, because I think without precedent in U.S. history, you had several senior military leaders who served Donald Trump, by the way. They weren't just imagining this, but folks who served him like General John Kelly or Mark Milley or Esper himself, not -- not uniform, but someone worried about Trump its exhibiting fascist behavior, as in a second term.

What does that mean for the relationship between the military? Because its not an isolated view, right? Doesn't mean it's a unanimous view in the military, there are many in the military who quite actively support him, but that's quite a remarkable view from folks who experienced his leadership before. Where does that leave the relationship between the military and the incoming commander in chief?

HERTLING: It's frayed, Jim, and what I'd say is all the individuals you just named, General Kelly, who was chief of staff, Kelly. General Mattis, who was secretary of Defense Mattis, Lieutenant Colonel Esper, who was secretary of defense, all of them were in key governmental positions, no longer in the military.

But they still stood up because they had been embedded with that constitutional norm of swearing the oath to the Constitution which they do as civilians as well. So the training that all of them received in the military, took hold and they realized that when they took the position in the cabinet or in the civilian positions, but even with that, the military is bound to obey the orders of the civilian masters of the government if those orders are legal and again, that's the key point.

But to answer your question, that's a long way around answering your question it's certainly left the civil military relations frayed a bit and many people and I'll even cite myself who spoke up against what we believe to be potential illegal orders or violations of the Constitution. I was speaking on behalf of CNN in my role as an analyst of what might happen. There were many that stood up inside of the government saying, we're not going to obey these orders and they -- they maintain the guardrails within the government of former President Trump's first administration.

SCIUTTO: Well, Mark Hertling, I know you're retired now, but thanks so much to you and your service to this country on this Veterans Day.

HERTLING: If I can say, Jim, it was an honor to serve in the cloth of our country every single day of the 37-plus years I spent in the military, no finer people no greater mission and no more substantive -- substantive values than you receive as part of the U.S. military.

SCIUTTO: Well, I've seen it myself firsthand. So I know what you're talking about. Thanks so much.

HERTLING: Thanks, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Well, on another topic get back in the kitchen. That's one of the many sexist downright repugnant phrases flung at women following the result of the U.S. presidential election. A post on X by white nationalist and holocaust denier Nick Fuentes said, quote: Your body, my choice. Forever. That one's been reposted 75 million times.

You may remember Fuentes was a guest of Ye, formerly known as Kanye West, for a dinner with Donald Trump at Mar-a-Lago in 2022.

CNN's Clare Duffy is following this rise in harassment by far right online trolls, joins me now.

Almost seems like a fact of life this day. So, tell -- tell me how much of a spike we've seen after the election.

CLARE DUFFY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Jim, it's really significant.

These are the kinds of characters and the kinds of language that have existed in sort of dark corners of the Internet, but it appears these people are feeling more emboldened by the results of this election, where we know there was so much focus on women's rights, women's reproductive freedoms, this surge in this kind of hate speech, abusive language, really started with that post from Nick Fuentes on Tuesday night, and since then we've seen that phrase, your body, my choice. The use of that phrase surged more than 4,000 percent on X.

I'm pulling up this graph for you that you can see this is an analysis from the group, the institute of strategic dialog, which also recorded increases in the use of phrases like get back in the kitchen and calls to repeal the 19th Amendment, which gave women the right to vote and this is all part of the growing sort of manosphere. That's how researchers describe these misogynistic online communities, where they discuss anti-feminism in some cases outright violence, threats of violence against women.

And there are women who have already been the targets of this kind of language. We've seen women on TikTok posting videos saying that their comments, their direct messages were filled with this phrase your body, my choice. And for experts, Jim, the concern really is that well start to see this kind of online abuse and harassment spill out into the real offline world.

SCIUTTO: No question. Listen, we've seen it thrive. We've seen it thrive in particular on x and none of the you know, sort of notes and filters that we've seen in the past. It's a real shame to see.

Clare Duffy, thanks so much.

Coming up, why tourists in Rome are now getting a rare birds eye view of the famous Trevi Fountain.

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SCIUTTO: Welcome back.

A big facelift in Rome offering a rare chance to see the famous Trevi Fountain up close as workers restore the masterpiece, the city is offering a birds eye view.

CNN's Barbie Nadeau is in Rome with the story.

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BARBIE LATZA NADEAU, CNN REPORTER (voice-over): The Trevi Fountain is normally gurgling with water into which millions of tourists throw coins each year. But thanks to a massive renovation project worth more than $300,000 that includes cleaning and scrubbing up of calcium, rust, and dirt, this iconic fountain is dry.

You know, where the water should be is this metal walkway that is going to offer the tourists who come here a rare opportunity to take an intimate look at this 18th century masterpiece.

The walkway will also allow the city to study a proposed ticket system by tracking the ebbs and flows of the tourists through the day.

ROBERTO GUALTERI, ROME, ITALY MAYOR: By improving the experience of visitors to make, unique experience to admire the fountain, to avoid overcrowding, that's why there is a limit on people that can stay on this walkway, but also after the end of the maintenance working, there will be a cap on the people that could at the same time be inside the fountain, to admire it, in order to avoid the fact that, overcrowding, makes the experience worse.

LATZA NADEAU (voice-over): Rome sees some 35 million visitors a year, and around four million are believed to visit this site. The city believes that by eventually charging a small entrance fee, they can better control over tourism and protect the ancient stone.

ARLENE SPRING, FLORIDA TOURIST: It was one of the things I couldn't wait to see, and I'm sort of disappointed, but I still get to see the beauty of it. You know? So, yes, I would pay.

LATZA NADEAU (voice-over): The fountain's last cleaning and repair began in 2014 and took more than a year. But increasingly, hot temperatures and a steady growth in tourism traffic have also led to the erosion of some of the basin.

The Trevi project is one of many conservation and renovation projects slated to finish in time for the kickoff of the Vatican's Holy Jubilee Year of 2025, which will draw millions more visitors than usual to the eternal city's popular sites.

And for those who have come during this Roman construction season, all is not lost. They can still throw their coin into this smaller basin for luck. And they're getting an opportunity of a lifetime to see this fountain up close.

Barbie Latza Nadeau, CNN, Rome.

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SCIIUTTO: A lot of great movies shot there. Thanks so much for joining me today. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington.

"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.