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Mass Deportation Starts on Day One; Supreme Court Rejects to Move Mark Meadows' Case; Trump to Meet with House GOP; Suspect in Laken Riley's Killing in Court. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired November 12, 2024 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: A top Trump aide says the incoming president is eager to begin mass deportation. Stephen Miller told Fox News they'll begin as soon as the president-elect takes the oath of office. Joining me now is the man who led the fight against then President Trump's family separation policy, Lee Gelernt. He is an attorney with the ACLU and deputy director of its Immigrants' Rights Project.

Lee, thank you for joining us. I was just talking with Chad Wolf about all of this your thoughts on what we may be seeing here in the months ahead.

LEE GELERNT, ACLU ATTORNEY, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, ACLU IMMIGRANTS' RIGHTS PROJECT AND LED FIGHT AGAINST TRUMP'S FAMILY SEPARATION POLICY: Yes, thanks for having me. I'm wary about this rhetoric now that we're only going to go after the worst of the worst, that they're only going to go after hardened criminals and national security threats.

I mean, that not consistent with what President Trump and his aides have been saying now for many, many months, that it's going to be mass deportation. So, I am worried about. How they're going to go about it, whether they're going to try and use the military, which is flatly illegal in our view, and who's going to be caught up in.

And I think your discussion with Chad Wolf really illustrates a critical point. I do not think that the American public, as much as they want reform to the immigration system and border policies, which we also want, and for something like family separation again. I think in the first Trump administration, they thought they dehumanize these people to such an extent that the American public wouldn't push back against something like taking little babies away from their parents.

What we saw is people from across the ideological spectrum, conservatives, liberals, Republicans, Democrats all pushing back on it. So, I think if we see some kind of extreme measure like that, the American public will push back. I'm hopeful that they will. Because we are still, as you pointed out in the prior segment, looking at the effects of family separation from the first time around. Not only are there potentially 1,000 families or more still separated, but even those little children who have been reunited are suffering enormously.

One little boy we worked with was just reunited, a three-year-old boy. When he got home would stand by the window looking to see if men were going to come and take him away again. Little children going to sleep, worried about men coming to take them out of their bed again. So, what happened in the first administration was horrific.

ACOSTA: Yes. I mean, and, Lee, that's the question that I have is that, you know, when Chad is saying, well, they're going to prioritize criminals and violent offenders and that sort of thing, I mean, that's what just about every administration does. I mean, every administration, they deport and remove people who are criminals and are violent and so on.

[10:35:00]

But when you talk about mass deportations, we're talking about a totally different enterprise altogether because you can't have mass deportations without removing millions of people. And when you talk about removing millions of people, you're talking about families, you're talking about children. Why do you think there's a disconnect there in the language?

GELERNT: Well, I think you're exactly right. I mean, mass deportation does not mean simply going after hardened criminals and national security threats. And maybe they're now trying to hide the ball a little, and they're still going to engage in mass deportations. I mean, I haven't heard the president move off that. So, there may be people out there now trying to soften it. But until we see some kind of softening of it, I think we're preparing for the absolute worst.

And we're going to -- it's going to need to be a national effort. I think all civil rights attorneys will tell you that you can do a lot in the courts, but you can't do everything. And I think it's going to require people taking to the streets peacefully to protest, like they did with family separation. It's going to take volunteers. People are going to need individual lawyers. It's going to be a real effort.

Because I do think that as much as people are right to ask for immigration reform and we also are calling for that, there needs to be a balance. We can't go over to the point where we don't give anybody asylum in this country where we're starting to separate little children. That's just too much. And I hope that, you know, the rhetoric is not consistent with the policies, but until I see actually the policies, I'm going to have to believe that what President Trump is saying is he's going to do is mass deportations.

ACOSTA: And, Lee, I mean, Chad was also being a bit evasive about how this volume of people would be managed. He was talking about existing detention and processing facilities and so on. But when you get into the neighborhood of millions of people that is why there was reporting in the run up to the election about deportation camps, that there would be detention -- large detention facilities that are capable of holding hundreds of thousands of people.

This is something that the American people have not really seen before. I suppose part of what you might want to see in the incoming administration is there to be a lot of transparency, where the media is allowed to observe a lot of this, where the cameras are rolling. And so, these images, as ugly and ungodly as they may turn out to be, can be beamed out to the rest of the world.

GELERNT: Well, that's exactly right. And I think that's a critical point you're making because with family separation, we went almost a year without knowing what was going on. And once we were able to bring the lawsuit and get the stories out of these little babies and toddlers being ripped away, the American public did push back.

So, I think it is absolutely critical that there be transparency. And if the American public really wants military going through the streets looking for immigrants and military camps, then they need to see what it really looks like. And I do not believe that they're going to want that when they see it. But you're 100 percent right, the media need to be allowed in and to show the images.

ACOSTA: And speaking of rhetoric that Trump used during the campaign, he said during the campaign that he'd like to invoke the Alien Enemies Act of 1798. This has only been used during wartime in the U.S. What are your thoughts on that?

GELERNT: So, we think it would be flatly illegal to use it for deportations. I mean, there are two critical parts to the law. One is it says it has to be an invasion and by foreign governments. We don't think that applies to immigration at all. I mean, that may be nice to say, and during the campaign as campaign rhetoric at a rally, but as a legal matter we think that there's no way this law could be stretched for regular deportations. Now, whether they try it is another case, but we are prepared to challenge that in court once we see details.

ACOSTA: All right. Lee Gelernt, thank you very much for your time. I really appreciate it. Keep us updated on all your work. We'll be following it in the coming days. We appreciate it.

GELERNT: Absolutely. Thank you.

ACOSTA: Thank you. All right. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:40:00]

ACOSTA: All right. Some breaking news now. The Supreme Court rejected Mark Meadows' request to move his Georgia election subversion case to federal court. This effectively bars Donald Trump's former White House chief of staff from claiming immunity. He was indicted last year on charges tied to phone calls and meetings where Trump pressured Georgia officials to change the outcome of the 2020 election in that state.

In the meantime, we are following other breaking news up on Capitol Hill. House Speaker Mike Johnson says President-Elect Trump will meet with House GOP leaders tomorrow. Let's go straight to CNN's. Chief Congressional Correspondent Manu Raju up on Capitol Hill. Manu, what do we think we're going to see?

MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is what just the speaker just told reporters moments ago. He said that he is in the president-elect's team have been talking. He said he's been regularly talking with Donald Trump and that they plan to have a meeting with the House Republican Conference tomorrow morning before Donald Trump heads to the White House to meet with Joe Biden. This, of course, in the meeting on the Hill will be a victory lapse of sorts is a Republican Party that is emboldened, that is in an extremely good mood after their strong election performance from last week.

But Johnson also indicated that he plans to go to Mar-a-Lago over the weekend to try to hash out their legislative strategy ahead of next year. He also indicated, Jim, that he is hopeful that Donald Trump will not select more Republicans in the House to serve in his administration.

[10:45:00]

While Donald Trump has so chosen two so far, Johnson's expected to have a very narrow majority. Each additional person could make that majority even tighter. He says he does not anticipate at the moment Donald Trump naming any more House Republicans. We'll see how that turns out.

And I just caught up with him too after that press conference, and I asked him about whether or not he has the support of Donald Trump to remain a speaker.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We'll have it all lined up for January 3rd. It's going to be fine. The president is fully supportive. He's been saying that. And we got to get this team together and move forward, and I'm excited about the opportunity to do that.

So -- and I'll work with whatever margin I have. We've demonstrated we can do that already. But I think you're going to have a very different mood in the Republican Conference going forward because we do have a unified government. We have an extraordinary opportunity ahead of us. Nobody wants to squander that. So, I think you'll see cohesion in the team. I'm talking to all the members across the spectrum, everybody has this same sense of excitement. And so, it's going to be a good day for us.

RAJU: You said out there about spending, that you were going to talk to the president about this. Do you have a preference on doing the CR, some talk about doing it until September? Is that (INAUDIBLE).

JOHNSON: I can make a case for a number of different options that are on the table. But again, this is a consensus building exercise as always, but the president's preference on that will carry a lot of weight, obviously. So, he and I just have not had the opportunity with everything else going on to talk about that in detail yet, but look forward to having that conversation. So --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And that last point is actually very critical, because right now there's a potential of a government shutdown by mid-December if Congress does not agree to how to deal with federal spending for the rest of this current fiscal year.

He indicated right there he has not -- he and Donald Trump have not hashed out how they plan to deal with that issue. And this is complicated because Donald Trump, of course, comes to power in January 20th, but Joe Biden is president until then. So, they need to reach some sort of funding agreement that will avoid a government shutdown, Trump indicating to Johnson, they have not -- you know, Johnson indicating they have not spoken about that yet, but that's going to be a big decision for Donald Trump on how he deals with that in the first days in office, Jim.

ACOSTA: And obviously, the speaker is concerned, Manu, because if more House Republicans go into the cabinet, I mean, that House majority for the Republicans, we haven't officially called it yet, but it is shaping up to be a very slim majority once again.

RAJU: Yes, no question about it. Because if -- you know, 218 is a majority and if they have barely over 218 votes, every single vote counts, absences, people who have things come up. That means they may not have a majority if they have -- if some -- if enough members leave for the cabinet, and Johnson is clearly aware of it and he says Trump is too.

ACOSTA: Yes. And the House of Representatives, something always comes up. As you know, Manu Raju. Thank you very much. We appreciate it.

All right. Coming up, the case became a flashpoint in the immigration debate. The man accused of killing Laken Riley is in court this morning. We've got some breaking news that just came in from the courtroom. We're live with that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:00]

ACOSTA: All right. Breaking news. The undocumented immigrant charged with murdering Laken Riley on the University of Georgia campus has waived his right to a jury trial. The 22-year-old nursing student was killed in February while out on a run. Riley's death became a flashpoint in the fight over border security. The suspect was originally arrested in 2022 after entering the U.S. illegally. CNN's Rafael Romo is in Athens, Georgia for us. Rafael, what are the next steps now?

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim. Right now, the judge in the case here at the Athens Clark County courthouse, and both the prosecution and the defense are meeting behind closed doors trying to decide when is this case continued? And yes, it is a very significant development that the prosecution has agreed to a bench trial, especially if we consider that it was going to be tomorrow that they were going to begin jury selection in this case. As you know, and many of our viewers know, that means that now the question of guilt is going to be in the hands of the judge and not in the hands of a jury. And let me tell you this, it may not be a big surprise for many people because the case was not looking very good for the defense. There was a couple of motions earlier this month, November 1st, the defense wanted to throw out a phone evidence and also DNA evidence because they say it was not gathered properly. The judge said no to that. They also wanted to change the venue. They wanted to move the trial out of here in Athens. The judge said no to that. So, it was going to be very difficult for them, especially if they went to trial.

Now, a 26-year-old Jose Antonio Ibarra is facing 10 counts. Many of them had to do with the death of Laken Riley in February. We're going to wait when they decide to continue this case. Jim, back to you.

ACOSTA: All right. Rafael Romo, thank you very much for that update. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:55:00]

ACOSTA: Thanks very much for joining me this morning. I want to bring in my friend and colleague Pamela Brown. Pamela. I mean, we're going to have a big show -- a couple of shows tomorrow morning because Donald Trump is coming back to the White House. President Biden is going to be welcoming him there. But I suppose one of the things we're going to be watching for is whether the former first lady, the incoming first lady, Melania Trump will be there. From what we understand at this point, she is not going to show up.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, that is our reporting from Kristen Holmes, our team there in Mar-a-Lago. And you know, I have to say, I wouldn't be surprised. I mean, Melania Trump, as you well know, is known for bucking tradition, although she did in 2016 do the traditional tea with Michelle Obama.

But this time around, apparently, she is choosing not to show up alongside her husband, Donald Trump, to the White House. And it also raises a lot of questions about, you know, is she going to live at the White House starting at the beginning of the term? I mean, as you know, in 2016, she didn't for the first several months. Barron was in school. I mean, there's a -- she does things her own way. This is another example of that.

ACOSTA: Yes, but it is good, I think, to see President Biden trying to keep this tradition going, even though Donald Trump did not extend this courtesy to him when Trump lost the presidency to Joe Biden. I was there in 2017 when President Obama, Mrs. Obama, welcome the Trump --

[11:00:00]