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Trump Chose RFK Jr. as Health Secretary, Critics Worried on His Incoming Appointment; Security Ramped Up in France Following a Skirmish During the France-Israel Football Game; Biden Attends APEC Summit in Peru; The Onion Wins Bid for Infowars Bankruptcy, Sandy Hook Mass Shooting Victims Backed Sale. Aired 3-4a ET
Aired November 15, 2024 - 03:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[03:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT AND ANCHOR: A warm welcome to our viewers watching around the world. I'm Paula Newton, ahead here on "CNN Newsroom."
Making his picks. U.S. President-elect Donald Trump selects vaccine skeptic Robert F. Kennedy Jr. for a high-level health position.
New airstrikes on Beirut. Lebanon says it has been hit by Israel for the fourth day in a row.
And refusing to help. South Africa won't give assistance to hundreds of people in an illegal underground mine. We'll have a live report from the region.
UNKNOWN (voice-over): Live from Atlanta, this is "CNN Newsroom" with Paula Newton.
NEWTON: And we begin with Donald Trump, who is pushing ahead with plans to reward loyalists with plum positions in his cabinet. And that's despite intense doubts over many of their qualifications. Now, the latest provocative pick is known vaccine skeptic and conspiracy theorist Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who Trump wants to put in charge of the sprawling Department of Health and Human Services.
Former HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius blasted the choice. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATHLEEN SEBELIUS, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES; -- to have someone coming into a scientific agency that is a vaccine skeptic and may well undo decades of public health work, I think, is terrifying for the American public, who rely on HHS from cradle to grave for the resources, for information, for public health, for oversight of our food and medicines. And that, to me, is a very frightening aspect for the American public.
(END VIDEO CLIP) NEWTON: During a quote "America First" gala at Mar-a-Lago on Thursday, Trump accused Democrats of not treating RFK Jr. well and then predicted he would do, quote, "some unbelievable thing" and joked "don't get too popular."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: We want you to come up with things and ideas and what you've been talking about for a long time and I think you're going to do some unbelievable thing. Nobody's going to be able to do it like you and boy does he feel it in his heart. So congratulations also to your family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: Now while at the podium, Trump also announced Doug Burgum as his choice for Secretary of the Interior. The North Dakota governor ran unsuccessfully against Trump for the Republican presidential nomination.
Other recent selections include Trump's own criminal defense attorney, Todd Blanche, to be the number two lawyer at the Justice Department, and Doug Collins, a former Georgia congressman, tapped to become Veterans Affairs Secretary.
RFK Jr.'s controversies are almost too many to count, from denying the efficacy of proven vaccines to strange encounters with dead animals, even suggesting there was a worm in his brain. CNN's Brian Todd has our story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRUMP: I'm going to let him go wild on health. I'm going to let him go wild on the food. I'm going to let him go wild on medicines.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The person Donald Trump's going to let go wild, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., is the 70-year-old son of Democratic icon Robert Kennedy, and has become known mostly for espousing outlandish, false conspiracy theories about the COVID virus.
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR. (I), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: COVID- 19 is targeted to attack Caucasians and Black people. The people who are most immune are Jews and Chinese.
TODD (voice-over): And he's repeatedly, baselessly called the COVID-19 vaccines unsafe.
LAURA BARON-LOPEZ, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: There could be widespread disinformation to the public about what they should or shouldn't be doing in terms of their public health.
TODD (voice-over): The co-chair of Trump's transition team told CNN's Kaitlan Collins this, about what Kennedy might try to do with the COVID vaccines that are in place now which have been proven to be mostly safe. HOWARD LUTNICK, CO-CHAIR, TRUMP-VANCE TRANSITION TEAM: He says, if you
give me the data, all I want is the data, and I'll take on the data and show that it's not safe, and then if you pull the product liability, the companies will yank these vaccines right off of the market.
TODD (voice-over): In May of this year, it was revealed that Kennedy once claimed in a deposition that a parasitic worm had once entered his brain and died, which he said led to, quote, "severe brain fog, and trouble with his short-term memory." He actually joked about it.
KENNEDY JR.: Maybe a brain worm ate that part of my memory.
TODD (voice-over): Earlier this year in a rambling video posted on X, Kennedy admitted that about 10 years ago he was driving in upstate New York when he found the carcass of a dead bear that had been hit by a vehicle.
[03:05:07]
KENNEDY JR.: So I pulled over and I picked up the bear and put him in the back of my van because I was going to skin the bear.
TODD (voice-over): But Kennedy said he got sidetracked by several events that day, couldn't go home, didn't know what to do with the bear. So he decided to leave the carcass in New York's Central Park and make it look like a bike accident.
KENNEDY JR.: So we went and did that and we thought it would be a music for whoever found it or something.
LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA-CENTER FOR POLITICS: The whole story, the wild, weird story that RFK Jr. told about the bear cub and how it got into Central Park has really made an impact and not a positive one for him.
TODD (voice-over): This summer, an article in "Vanity Fair" had a photo of Kennedy appearing to pantomime eating a dog carcass. Kennedy denied it was a dog.
KENNEDY JR.: It's actually me eating a goat in Patagonia.
That same "Vanity Fair" article published allegations that Kennedy had sexually assaulted a former nanny for his family. Kennedy sidestepped the accusations.
KENNEDY JR.: I am not a church boy.
TODD: Robert Kennedy Jr. has already floated ideas for major turnover at public health agencies. In one recent interview, he said he would cut the number of employees in nutrition departments at the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. And at a recent conference, he proposed replacing about 600 officials at the National Institutes of Health with hand-picked staff.
Brian Todd, CNN, Washington. (END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON: Now, Kennedy does hold some views that top doctors welcome, calling to remove processed foods from school lunches and warning of the impact of massive pharmaceutical companies have on everyone's health.
But if he becomes HHS secretary, he'd have a massive platform for his beliefs and the power to influence information and the choices that Americans make. And that, as many critics worry.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. RICHARD BESSER, FORMER ACTING CDC DIRECTOR: One of the things that was always certain was that the Secretary of Health and Human Services believed in science, believed in the power of public health science to improve people's lives. To see someone in that role who has done more than just about anyone to undermine people's confidence in our vaccine system is absolutely frightening.
Now I practiced pediatrics for more than 30 years, and there was nothing that I did for the kids in my practice that I knew with certainty had more value in their life than making sure they were vaccinated fully and on time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: Now Republican senators warning that Trump's highly contentious choice for attorney general Matt Gaetz will have a very difficult path to confirmation. There are growing calls for the release of an ethics report into the former congressman. Gaetz had been the subject of a years-long sex crimes investigation, but the Justice Department ultimately decided not to pursue criminal charges.
The House Ethics Committee was expected to release its long-awaited report on Gaetz today, but suddenly canceled that meeting. And it's now uncertain whether that information will ever be made public. Gaetz has repeatedly denied any wrongdoing.
Now Donald Trump wants to use all the options when it comes to getting his nominees through Congress. That includes so-called recess appointments, which would allow him to install some officials without congressional hearings and floor votes.
That would dramatically increase the odds of controversial picks like Matt Gaetz, Tulsi Gabbard and RFK Jr. making it through Congress. The newly chosen Senate Majority Leader says time is in fact of the essence. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN THUNE(R-SD), SENATE MAJORITY LEADER-ELECT: What I said is, Brett, and I think this is, that all options are on the table, including recess appointments. Hopefully it doesn't get to that, but we'll find out fairly quickly whether the Democrats want to play ball or not. And I think part of it is getting these folks will start having
confirmation hearings soon as the new Senate is sworn in January, president takes the oath of office January 20th. By the time you take the oath of office hopefully a lot of those nominees will be to their confirmation hearings, and will be ready to act on them on the Senate floor.
And then it's a question of how much to the democrats resistor object or try to block those nominations from getting going forward and we're going to grind them out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: Thomas Gift is the director of the Center on U.S. Politics, for University College London. Good to have you with us as we continue to try and parse the extraordinary news. It seems to change every hour. I do want to start, though, first with that controversial pick from the other day, Matt Gaetz for attorney general.
Now from CNN's reporting, we understand that, you know, Donald Trump is very serious about this. This is not a ploy. He believes that not only could he get Matt Gaetz approved, but that he could actually serve as attorney general. I want to ask you, is this shaping up really to be a test of the Republican Party itself and could it ignite a bit of a civil war internally?
THOMAS GIFT, DIRECTOR, CENTER ON U.S. POLITICS, UNIVERSITY COLLEGE LONDON" Well, I'm not convinced that Donald Trump does think that he will be able to get Matt Gaetz through confirmation. I really believe that he perceives him as kind of a sacrificial lamb. And so he'll go to the senate. This will give the Republican senators an opportunity to prove their independence by rejecting him.
[03:10:06]
And then as a result, the next A.G. pick that Trump puts forward will look relatively moderate and tamed by comparison. So, I'm just thinking that this is more of a ploy. Of course, we would expect Donald Trump to come out and say that this is serious. He's not going to admit otherwise, but that's my expectation.
NEWTON: You know, turning back to RFK Jr., we just had an explanation there about what people find so inflammatory about his rhetoric over the last few years, really. I mean, just weeks ago, I want you to listen now, Trump's own transition team thought it impossible. Kristen Holmes alluded to that, but I want you to listen to it now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR, "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: But you're saying he could not be in charge of HHS?
LUTNICK: No. Of course not. Okay.
COLLINS: So he's not going to be, like, an acting--
LUTNICK: An acting secretary? No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: You hear him there? Mr. Lutnick, who was a key part -- played a key part in this transition team. I mean, okay. This is a loyalty dividend for RFK Jr., but it must be said, you know, as we've already outlined, Trump told voters that this is what he wanted RFK Jr. to be doing.
GIFT: Yeah. Absolutely. I guess Mr. Lutnick did not get the memo. Donald Trump, and RFK Jr. clearly had a good relationship, particularly toward the end of the campaign. And I think that there was always an implicit quid pro quo that if RFK Jr. dropped out of the race and endorsed Trump that he would be in line for a very significant position.
And here he is. RFK Jr. has pledged major overhauls, food and drug oversight, and the management of government sponsored scientific research. You know, recently, Kennedy even suggested dismantling the FDA's nutrition division. He advised much of the agency staff to pack their bags. So Donald Trump promised this, and Donald Trump is delivering.
NEWTON: Yeah. And he has told people around him since he won the election that he does intend to shake things up. And if we take it as a whole, well, we talked about Matt Gaetz, RFK Jr., but also Tulsi Gabbard, head of DNI, National Intelligence. Some people suggest that that would not be that that in fact would be itself a threat to national security in the United States.
If we take all of these appointments together, especially the highly controversial ones, it can seem to some truly subversive, a reckoning for the very institutions that these people could be leading. What do you believe are Donald Trump's broader intentions here?
GIFT: Well, I think that Donald Trump doesn't want to make the same mistake that he perceives he made in his first administration, which was to give key appointments to inside the beltway types, establishment government figures, bureaucrats who spent their entire lives in Washington.
He thinks that that didn't work out for him, and he's right to some extent. And a huge number of those quote unquote, "adults in the room" abandoned him. So this time he's prioritizing loyalty above all else. I think it's more fealty than loyalty. But any individual who's been with Trump since 2016, sometimes even before, stuck with him the entire way. That's who he wants in his White House.
I think the real danger is that he just surrounds himself with yes men, and there's no one to check his more volatile and turbulent impulses.
NEWTON: Yeah. But it must be reminded, a majority of American voters, it looks like, did put him into office, and so they do want him to carry out that mandate. Thomas Gift for us, we'll leave it there. Thanks so much. GIFT: Thanks, Paula.
NEWTON: Now, while many of Donald Trump's picks for his new administration are drawing criticism in the United States, some are getting a more favorable reaction in Russian state media.
Our Fred Pleitgen has more now from Moscow.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Kremlin-controlled T.V. praising some of President-elect Trump's cabinet picks, calling designated Attorney General Matt Gaetz quote "a Trump loyalist" and also speaking favorably about Trump's pick for director of national intelligence Tulsi Gabbard for repeatedly parroting Kremlin talking points on the war in Ukraine.
She, from day one, clarified the reason for Russia's special operation in Ukraine, the anchor says, criticizing the actions of the Biden administration. Gabbard's words in 2022, right after Russia launched its invasion of Ukraine, caused even panelists on Russian state T.V. to cynically ask if she's a Kremlin agent.
Yes, the host said, without providing any evidence. But the Russians are ripping into designated Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth and National Security Advisor Mike Waltz. Waltz at the Republican Convention proposed deploying more American drones in the Black Sea and bragged about how Trump threatened to bomb, as he put it, Putin's Kremlin, the anchor says. That is what's called a Russophobic dream team or the American dream team.
[03:14:59]
PLEITGEN: Of course, there's a lot of discussion here in Russia about the new Trump administration that's taking shape and what some of the picks could mean for relations with Russia, especially when it comes to possibly ending the war in Ukraine.
PLEITGEN (translated): Donald Trump said that he definitely wants to resolve the conflict in Ukraine. Do you think this is possible through talks, through military action, what do you think?
UNKNOWN (translated): I don't know how Donald Trump can resolve this. But I would really like this to be resolved as soon as possible and resolve in the most peaceful way possible, that is through negotiations, and not through actions that are happening now.
UNKNOWN (translated): You know, there is still a bit of ambition here, with those in power. And I don't know if Trump will stick to his line. But I hope that there will be a good agreement between Russia and Ukraine.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): Russian President Vladimir Putin has said he's willing to talk to Donald Trump even before Trump takes office. The Russians praising some of the president-elect's appointments as officials who could help normalize relations with Moscow.
Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Moscow.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON: The "New York Times" is reporting that Elon Musk met with Iran's ambassador to the U.N. this week. Now, the talks between the world's richest person and Iranian envoy, Amir Irvani, were apparently held at a secret location. That's according to the newspaper.
Iranian officials said the discussion was focused on how to diffuse tensions between the two countries. The U.S. official says the Biden administration was not given any heads up about the meeting. It's not clear why Musk, who has been chosen to head up a newly conceived Department of Government Efficiency, would or should be taking on a major foreign policy challenge.
A major accusation against Israel after hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were forced to flee their homes. Still ahead, a human rights watchdog believes what happened in Gaza amounts to war crimes.
Plus, France was taking no chances ahead of the France-Israel Nations League football match. Thousands of extra security personnel patrolled the stadium. That story, straight ahead.
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NEWTON: Lebanon's capital is taking fire from Israel for a fourth day in a row.
(VIDEO PLAYING)
That was the moment southern Beirut was hit by at least four airstrikes in recent hours, it's according to Lebanon state media. There are no immediate reports of casualties, but the attacks came a day after at least 43 people were killed in separate strikes right across Lebanon. State officials say more than 90 others were wounded.
Meanwhile Israel is facing new accusations of war crimes over its military campaign in Gaza. Human Rights Watch says the mass displacement of Palestinians forced by Israel also amounts to a crime against humanity. And according to the group's report, the end results is that some Palestinians will probably never be able to go home. Israel strongly denies the accusations.
[03:20:03]
CNN's Nada Bashir who's following those developments from London. Good to see you, Nada. You know, the allegations in this investigation are some of the most serious of this conflict. Human Rights Watch is basically accusing Israel of not only failing to protect civilians but in some cases doing exactly the opposite, putting them in harm's way.
How, we just heard that Israel was of course rejecting those allegations but what more are they saying? NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, as you can expect as you
mentioned Israeli authorities have denied these allegations they have said that their forces in Gaza abide by international law and have claimed that there is no doctrine, no sort of policy by the state to cause maximal damage to civilian infrastructure as outlined in the Human Rights Watch report.
But of course, this is not the first time that we have heard warnings from humanitarian organizations, from U.N. investigators even, that Israel could be liable to committing war crimes in Gaza following the evidence that we have seen over more than a year now.
And in fact, what this Human Rights Watch report has said in about 154 pages is not only do they believe Israel is committing war crimes and crimes against humanity, but has also gone a step further and said that the severity of their actions could also amount to ethnic cleansing.
So very serious allegations here. Much of the report is focused on the forced mass displacement of civilians in the Gaza Strip. More than 90 percent of Gaza's 2.3 strong million population of course now displaced. We have seen those repeated evacuation orders issued by the Israeli military.
This Human Rights Watch report details and incites the illegal and controlled and deliberate demolition and targeting of not only residential buildings and homes but also civilian infrastructure from schools to hospitals and other crucial infrastructure in the Gaza Strip.
But it also goes into the details of these evacuation orders that have been issued by the Israeli military. We have of course often reported on the dangers around these evacuation orders as detailed by other human rights organizations and Human Rights Watch certainly has gone into that around these evacuation routes that have been outlined by the Israeli military, which are oftentimes then struck by Israeli forces, of course, leading to civilians being killed.
And then, of course, these humanitarian zones that have been established by the Israeli military, which then have also become targets, namely the Al Mawasi coastal area, which has been designated a so-called safe zone, but just this week has once again been struck despite the heavy presence of civilians and, of course, tents to house those displaced.
And then of course there is the question of aid. We've repeatedly heard the alarm bells being sounded from humanitarian organizations around not enough aid getting in. Again, Human Rights Watch detailing the blockades that have been put in place by Israeli authorities preventing enough aid from getting in.
And what they are calling for in this report is for allies of Israel, namely the United States, Germany, other key players, to put in place targeted sanctions to pressure Israel to improve the humanitarian situation on the ground, namely to stop arms sales and military assistance to Israel. Whether or not we see any substantial action off the back of this
report remains to be seen again. This is not the first time we've heard these warnings and we haven't seen such action over the last year in response.
NEWTON: And certainly any pressure brought to us by the United States or other allies has not had any significant impact as of yet. Nada Bashir for us, appreciate it.
Paris ramped up security ahead of a football match between France and Israel. At least one skirmish broke out during the game, but security intervened quickly to break up the fight. French officials didn't take any chances though after violent clashes following a football match in Amsterdam last week.
CNN correspondent Melissa Bell filed this report before the match.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MELISSA BELL, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Apart from policemen and women, there really aren't very many people here. We don't expect the turnout to be terribly high. No more than about 15,000 says French forces.
And we've just watched some of the handful of Israel supporters who've chosen to come out to this match arrive under a really strong police presence, brought in by bus, accompanied by elite Special Forces. There are helicopters in the sky, drones have been deployed, 40,000 policemen and women. And the barricades that allow you to get as close as we are now are pretty substantial.
There's a very small pro-Palestinian rally being held a couple of kilometers from here. French authorities were all about preventing the kind of violence that we saw last week in Amsterdam and yet here in Paris, emotions running high as well, last night we saw pro- Palestinian protests but also Jewish groups coming out to protest the policies of the Israeli government in Gaza on the margins of a Gala event that was held in support of the Israeli government and its policies.
So this is a part of the world in which feelings run extremely high about what's happening in the Middle East. Still, French authorities are really taking no chances to ensure that Israeli fans are allowed to get to and from their hotels tonight safely.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[03:25:04]
NEWTON: Parts of Spain have been hammered with even more heavy rainfall, but authorities say the worst appears to be over without a repeat of the deadly flash flooding that occurred two weeks ago. Now one embattled regional leader is set to explain the slow emergency response before Parliament.
CNN's Pau Mosquera has the latest now from Madrid. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAU MOSQUERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Authorities say that we have already seen the worst of the cold drop that has affected Spain over the last two days, but its effects can still be felt in some parts of the country. That's the case of the southwest, where this phenomenon has been moving to.
Spain's meteorological agency has activated this Thursday some orange warnings for the regions of Sevilla, Cadiz and Huelva, due to the risk of torrential rains. More specifically, this agency estimated that in some towns they can accumulate up to 30 or 40 liters of water per square meter in just one hour.
That's why the authorities have suspended all school activities for the day and also recommended the population not to move around until the rains have come to an end.
Also, many were paying attention to the situation in Valencia where other warnings were active, but in this case lower warnings. Fortunately, the authorities reported no injuries or personal damages over the day.
Now this Friday, many will fix their eyes in what happens inside of Valencia's parliament. And this is because regional president Carlos Mathon will appear before the deputies to provide political explanations on the response that his government offered to the emergency.
We should recall that last Saturday thousands protested in Valencia against the response that the regional government has offered because they considered that it was slow and not enough. And that's why many were asking him to resign. But we will have to wait until this Friday to see what will be next.
Pau Mosquera, CNN, Madrid.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON: New names every day. Donald Trump is stirring up controversy with his latest cabinet choice. Why critics are outraged over RFK Jr.
Plus, Donald Trump is expected to make good on his campaign promise to crack down on immigration. We'll break down the issue when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEWTON: And welcome back to our viewers watching around the world. I'm Paula Newton and this is "CNN Newsroom."
65 days out from the inauguration, U.S. President-elect Donald Trump is moving quickly to put together his new administration.
[03:30:00]
Now, he made a controversial pick on Thursday, nominating Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to lead the Health and Human Services Department.
Critics say the vaccine skeptic is a dangerous choice. At Mar-a-Lago Thursday, Mr. Trump showered praise on Kennedy, who he says wants to make people healthy. Mr. Trump also repeated a familiar and false claim about immigrants entering the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: They don't want them coming in through prisons and through where you dump a prison from countries all over the world, dumping prisons into our country. The prison is dumped into our country by the millions. They don't want that. They don't want all of the kind of things that you, they don't want drug deals. They don't want gang members.
They don't want people that are causing trouble. They don't want people that the country doesn't want.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: Donald Trump should have little trouble pushing through his agenda with a Republican controlled Congress. And that agenda is expected to include a hard line on immigration and illegal migrants. Now, economists have warned the president-elect's plan for mass deportations, which he talked about a lot on the campaign trail, would be inflationary.
CNN's Tom Foreman takes a closer look at the numbers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): 315 billion taxpayer dollars to round up and ship out 13 million people.
That's how much the American Immigration Council estimates Donald Trump's mass deportations could cost.
STEPHEN MILLER, TRUMP ADVISER: They begin on inauguration day.
FOREMAN (voice-over): And other challenges are also adding up, starting with just finding those folks.
Many of the top states where undocumented people live are huge, and Pew Research says 70 percent of them reside in homes with U.S. citizens. Undocumented parents with American-born kids, for example, posing the puzzle should families be broken up.
TOM HOMAN, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR OF IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT: It's not going to be a mass sweep of neighborhoods.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Tom Homan, Trump's former acting director of immigration and customs enforcement, now tapped for the new effort, has suggested to CBS an already reduced goal. Start by going after convicted criminals. Federal numbers say they account for about 4 percent of undocumented migrants picked up in Texas this year. Still--
HOMAN: If I'm in charge of this my priorities are public safety threats and national security threats first.
CECILLA VEGA, "60 MINUTES" CORRESPONDENT; First implies others follow though, right?
HOMAN: Absolutely.
FOREMAN (voice-over): There is broad agreement that Immigration and Customs Enforcement does not have adequate facilities for the Trump plan, with just 41,500 beds and an average of 29 repatriation flights a week. And even a slimmed down plan would likely require many more agents.
TRUMP: You need very tough people to solve it.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Trump has proposed using military troops, but some legal analysts say that would be flatly illegal as would be invoking old laws like the Alien Enemies Act from the 1700's to dodge overcrowded courts.
LEE GELERNT, ATTORNEY, AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION: We think that there's no way this law can be stretched for regular deportations. Now whether they try it is another case, but we are prepared to challenge that in court.
FOREMAN: And we should throw in concerns about skyrocketing labor and consumer costs if millions of workers suddenly disappear. Particularly in construction and in agriculture and in the hospitality industry.
FOREMAN (voice-over): It all means Trump's plan could fall far short of his promise, according to Edward Alden at the nonpartisan Council on Foreign Relations.
EDWARD ALDEN, SR. FELLOW, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Let's say they're deporting a million a year. That's more than twice as high as we've ever seen before in the modern year of immigration. Well, that's a lot of people, right? That's going to be really, really disruptive.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON: Now of course, immigration was a cornerstone of Trump's presidential campaign. In addition to proposing to close the southern border and launch a mass deportation operation, he also called for stopping so-called birthright citizenship for children of undocumented immigrants and banning sanctuary cities. Critics call the proposals too extreme.
According to a recent political article, quote, "If you think Trump's migration policies are extreme, look at the E.U.'s."
Michelle Pace is a professor in global studies at Roskilde University in Denmark and an associate fellow in the Europe program at Chatham House in London. And we welcome you to the program.
You know, normally cross-continental comparisons, you know, do not do justice to an issue as complicated as immigration, but we might be at an exception here. And I'm wondering what you see as the nexus between the sentiments we hear from President-elect Trump, but also those now being amplified in Europe.
MICHELLE PACE, PROF. IN GLOBAL STUDIES, ROSKILDE UNIVERSITY AND ASSOCIATE FELLOW, EUROPE PROGRAMME, CHATHAM HOUSE: Yes, thank you for having me here. Well, the European model is actually based on the Australian model, so this is not something new. The harsh rhetoric has been happening and the fear rhetoric in particular is, of course, a vote winner.
[03:35:05]
So this is something that states have learned from each other and especially politicians from the far right. So this is a tactic, a mechanism that has secured them, you know, winning elections. So I'm actually not surprised.
NEWTON: You're not surprised, and yet we have some news that the irregular border crossings are down in the E.U. and the U.S. In the E.U., according to Frontenac, it's down by 43 percent in the first 10 months of 2024. And I will note that's only 190,000 people for all of the E.U. so far this year.
And of course, the numbers are also falling in the U.S. Is there a sense that this might alleviate some of the pressure? I mean, we even had the Federal Reserve Chairman Powell say this week that immigration has helped the U.S. economy tremendously.
PACE: There is no doubt that numbers have fallen even in Europe. So we had, you know, Merkel's notion of we welcome Syrians in 2014, 2015. And around then we had one million people coming for safe, you know, safe lives in Europe. Now we are talking about 300,000 in 2023. And this year so far, Frontenac's quoted 160,000.
So of course the rhetoric and the measures are working in reducing numbers, but of course we need to think about what Europe stands for. And Europe stands for the protection to those people who actually need protection.
And we are in danger here of challenging the very foundations upon which the European Union was founded. And that is a very rights-based approach. So I think we also need to distinguish between those people who are desperate, you know, seeking protection from persecution or war, and those who genuinely want to have a better life elsewhere.
So I think, you know, there needs to be a very important discussion about what is the legal route and what are those illegal routes as well.
NEWTON: And voters are able to distinguish, right, through immigration that is orderly, and, in fact, immigration that they believe adds a certain level of chaos to their communities. I want you to hear now from one Haitian immigrant who spoke to CNN. Who says she voted for Donald Trump? Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIE NOEL, MONROECOUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA RESIDENT: So much immigrants coming in, even though I am an immigrant. But there's a proper way.
REPORTER: Where are you from?
NOEL: I'm from Haiti. And I came in the proper way. So I just feel like everybody should come in the proper way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: They should come in the proper way. These are valid concerns and I'm sure you have seen in Europe the way it is in the United States, Australia, Canada, that there is a great deal of pressure put on these communities. Does it worry you though that the sentiment among many is not just sentiment against illegal migration but also towards legal immigration?
PACE: Yes, unfortunately, you know, the anti-immigration rhetoric, I'm living in a country where we talk about non-Western immigrants, even people who have been in Denmark through the education system, so, you know, second and third generation who are not considered to be Danish, even though they have Danish citizenship.
So I think this fear-mongering is creating more, you know, racism and xenophobia. And this is very dangerous trends, because, you know, the increase in the far right in Europe is very shocking.
And I think what is worrying to me is that what is being pushed on the migration policy front will pave the way for other restrictions and this kind of rhetoric in other policy areas, not least in women's rights and the rights of different minority groups, which so many civil society groups have been fighting for decades for.
NEWTON: You know, the backlog of cases on asylum seekers is tremendous. I mean, years long in so many countries. Do you see a way to offer protection to those people, but yet speed up the legal process?
PACE: There are many legal associations that offer governments their support. And in Denmark, we have even voluntary organizations. So I think it's a matter of really genuinely having the openness to consider applications seriously rather than outright neglecting the right to protection.
So I think, yes, the system can be reformed, and it can be reformed, as I mentioned, through the genuine focus on the right to protection. So we need to distinguish between asylum seekers, refugees, and economic migrants.
But of course, in countries like Denmark but across Europe, we also have huge labor shortages in some critical industries. So there's also that need to look into what is it that can give us a good balance between, you know, legal roots for people who can come here and contribute to work and taxes, and those who genuinely need protection for their lives when their lives are threatened.
NEWTON: Yeah, they are definitely two very distinct paths to immigration there and must be looked at that way. Michelle Pace, we'll leave it there for now. Thanks so much.
PACE: You're welcome. Thank you.
Now the FBI has arrested an ISIS supporter who allegedly planned to carry out attacks in the U.S.
[03:40:02]
Investigators say he actively tried to join the terrorist group and even offered his home as a safe house for its operatives. CNN's Josh Campbell has our details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Authorities in Houston, Texas have announced the arrest of an alleged ISIS sympathizer. This man in his late 20s. Anas Said was arrested last week by the FBI outside of his apartment. Authorities and court records described a dramatic arrest as officers moved in. He allegedly tried to smash his cell phone on the ground, presumably in an effort to try to destroy any type of evidence.
He was tackled and then taken into custody. Now, he was known to law enforcement for past online social media postings. But authorities say that it was after the October 7th terrorist attack on Israel by Hamas that he began mobilizing towards violence.
DOUGLAS WILLIAMS, FBI HOUSTON SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: He admitted to wanting to use explosives to commit a mass killing here in Houston. He offered his home as a safe sanctuary to ISIS operatives. He bragged that he would commit a 9/11 style attack if he only had the resources.
CAMPBELL: Now in court records, officials said that Said admitted that he tried several times to travel to join ISIS. He also discussed his efforts to commit violence in the United States, including considering purchasing a gun, researching military recruitment facilities, and scouting one specific location.
Authorities also alleged that at one point he said he wanted to join the U.S. military in an attempt to try to conduct some type of insight attack. CNN has reached out to his attorney for comment. At this point, he faces one charge of providing material support to a designated foreign terrorist organization.
Josh Campbell, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON: U.S. President Joe Biden is now in Peru for the APEC summit. With its focus on Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation, the president will seek to reassure leaders who are talking about how to insulate their economies against potential challenges posed by President-elect Donald Trump. Now in particular, Biden will meet with Chinese President Xi on Saturday.
CNN's Steven Jiang is following developments live from Beijing. And Steven, I have to say it is fascinating to think about how a country like China that has really been a centerpiece of a lot of the rhetoric in the U.S. campaign will now handle Trump 2.0. I'm wondering what you've been learning about how China will begin to approach this in the months to come.
STEVEN JIANG, CNN BEIJING BUREAU CHIEF: Yeah, of course they're concerned about these potential massive 60 percent tariffs on Chinese imports as threatened by Trump during the campaign. But also they have to potentially deal with quite a few China hawks as Trump has picked quite a few of them for his new national security and foreign policy teams.
But Chinese officials have been telling us that they are fully prepared to deal with a second Trump administration, which they expect to be quite different from the first time around. But they were saying they are not going to take what Trump throws their way lying down. They think they are capable of fighting back, even faced with a sluggish economy at home.
But the more immediate concern from some Chinese officials may be the potential disruption or even complete halt of just resumed bilateral talks on numerous topics. But that's why going into this meeting, Biden administration officials stress that no matter who is in the White House they -- both sides still need to find ways to manage this tough and complicated relationship.
And that's why they say Biden is expected to mention some of the progress they have made recently as well as continues to mention a lot of U.S. concerns on multiple fronts. But from China's perspective, of course, they are trying to project this image of stability and global leadership.
And some say the kind of multilateral settings like APEC also gives them a good opportunity to drive a wedge between the U.S. and its allies and partners because if there's one thing China likes less than potential tariffs, it is this Biden approach of forming a united front with allies and partners against China on many different issues.
So the setting of this meeting, of course, Peru, is also interesting because China just unveiled a multi-billion dollar megaport built by one of its state-owned companies. So that really is a testament of China's growing economic clout in that part of the world, which is long considered to be America's backyard.
So now China has replaced the U.S. as the number one trading partner with a growing number of Latin America countries. That contrast between China's continued and growing investments versus what many see as America's neglect or at least disinterest in the region is definitely something Xi wants to highlight and take advantage of as well. Paula.
NEWTON: And we will be listening closely to his statements in the coming days. Steven Jiang for us in Beijing, thanks so much. Now, satirical news site, "The Onion" has won the auction for
conspiracy theorist Alex Jones' website "Infowars." The site was sold as part of a defamation settlement after Jones falsely called the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre a hoax.
[03:45:05]
The amount of the bid was not revealed, but families of the shooting victims backed the purchase. Jones' lawyers questioned how the auction was conducted. A federal judge in Texas has now ordered a hearing on the issue. Here's what the Onion CEO had to say about what he plans to do with the site.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEN COLLINS, CEO, "THE ONION": We're going to take it and take the universe that Alex created and just pave it over. We're going to create a new world where, hopefully in a couple of years, if you think of "Infowars,' you'll either think of this day where we pulled off this very ridiculous joke, where we're able to purchase "Infowars" as is, or you'll think of this new site.
And we're going to go after all the conditions that Alex Jones creates to sell his supplements and do all of those things. I think, you know, we're all on social media, we're all on TikTok and Instagram and there are a million little Alex Jones' out there each selling their own Supplement or making you drink raw milk or something they're trying to get you afraid of something and they're trying to sell you the solution.
And our new website is going to tackle exactly that and once we get it in our control, which is hopefully very soon. You guys can see we have cooked up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: Families anxiously wait for their loved ones who are in an underground mine in South Africa. Why officials are refusing to help.
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NEWTON: In South Africa, police have closed off the entrances to an underground mine in a bid to crack down on illegal mining. Now, the government has cut off supplies and says it will not help get the miners out.
Now several hundred, possibly thousands, are believed to be running out of food and water. Meantime, their families and loved ones have gathered near the mining site to wait for news of their condition.
CNN's Victoria Rubadiri is following all of this from Nairobi, Kenya. Good to have you on this story, Victoria. And I confess to being confused about why people that may be in danger are not getting the help they need given that likely they could rescue them if they were willing. VICTORIA RUBADIRI, CNN CORRESPONDENT, "CONNECTING AFRICA": That's
right, it's a very strict government policy that seems to be prevailing in this situation. So far what we know from local authorities is 1,000 miners have managed to surface. This is as of yesterday, one body was brought up to the surface as well.
In terms of exact numbers, we don't have specific figures from the government just yet, but from local miners who managed to come up to the surface, they say it could be upwards of 4,000 still underground and that's what makes the situation even more distressing.
Especially for the locals in Stilfontein, which is an old mining town, many of them still have loved ones still stuck underground. They haven't heard from them in weeks. Not sure of their condition. Some have even made attempts to try and rescue them.
[03:50:00]
But the government doesn't seem swayed by these concerns and says they will not rescue them. In fact, a cabinet minister made some pretty controversial comments on Wednesday saying that they will smoke them out.
Now this is part of a larger government operation called Vala Ungordi or close the hole. So for the last couple of months, government has been cutting supplies, as you mentioned, to these miners underground, hoping that they will surface and then arrest them.
But this has done very little in actually getting these miners to stop this illegal activity. Many of them are migrants from neighboring countries, they're young people who can't get formal work in South Africa. So what we'll be watching today is what the Ministry of Defense and Ministry of Police will be doing.
They said they'll head to the site today to bring the situation to a lawful and to a safe conclusion. However, this looks to be a much larger humanitarian crisis that is building.
NEWTON: Yeah, and we will certainly watch in the coming hours to see if those loved ones' prayers are answered. Victoria for us, appreciate it.
Well, look here, the Maori members of New Zealand's Parliament. Take a listen.
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And those are the Maori members of New Zealand's parliament who staged a haka to disrupt the vote on a bill that many claim would undermine their rights. The measure is based on an 1840 treaty between the British Crown and Maori chiefs, and it still guides policies today. Now, this bill would limit interpretations of the treaty, as some argue it's led to discrimination against non-Indigenous citizens.
Protests are ongoing right across the country, but with little support from political parties, the bill is unlikely to become law. Okay. A bizarre insurance scam that wasn't as grizzly as first
believed. Details on a wild fraud scheme. You want to see this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEWTON: So this case of insurance fraud is almost too much to bear. Now you will forgive me for that one when you learn that California
officials arrested four people now for filing claims stating that a wild bear had damaged the interior of three vehicles. Only it wasn't a bear at all.
CNN correspondent, Veronica Miracle explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the list of wild insurance fraud schemes, there's devious. And then there's this.
The California Department of Insurance released video of what maybe looks like a bear ransacking a Rolls Royce, but zoom in and you'll see the folds of fabric.
According to investigators, that's a person in a bear costume. Four people from the Los Angeles area are now accused of trying to defraud insurance companies of more than $140,000. Insurance fraud investigators say, one of the suspects dressed up as a bear used metal claws to tear up the interior, and then they submitted the surveillance video as evidence.
[03:54:59]
It didn't take a team of forensic analysts to figure out this wasn't video of a real black bear. But just to be sure, investigators went one step further and enlisted a biologist for help, who agreed with investigators.
But don't just take their word for it. Here's the suit itself: detectives found it while executing a search warrant.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON: I'm not sure that would pass at a Halloween party. Now, if you're afraid of creepy crawlers, you might want to look away for our next video.
Authorities at the airport in Lima, Peru have detained a Korean citizen planning to leave the country with 320 tarantulas, 110 centipedes, and nine bullet ants. I had to look that up. And get this, they were concealed in girdles strapped to his body.
Local media report security staff discovered the animals when they noticed the man's stomach looked unusually generates millions of dollars globally. Caribbean wildlife authorities are now taking care of the animals.
Now former water polo player, Jhoen Lefont, has set a new world record for ball control from a swimming pool. The challenge is to balance a soccer ball on your head wearing a weighted belt, yes it gets more tough, while treading water. The Cuban athlete beat his own world record set last year by over a minute, keeping the ball on his head for eight and a half minutes.
Referees from FIFA and the International Swimming Federation certify his record. Lefont has accomplished other aquatic feats and that includes swimming 750 meters with a ball balanced on his head. Oh, goodness, my neck hurts just looking at that.
Okay, conservators at a Dutch museum are in the middle of a painstaking process to restore Rembrandt's Night Watch painting. Now, a small team is working to remove a layer of varnish on the giant piece, which is several meters tall and wide. As you can imagine, it's a slow process where they apply a small amount of solvent to tissue, which dissolves on top of the paint.
The experts studied the painting for five years and restretched its canvas before getting to this point. The museum's director says it is time well spent.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TACO DIBBITS, RIJKSMUSEUM DIRECTOR: Rembrandt painted with a very clear contrast between light and dark. And that had become far less obvious in the painting. So I think that once it's restored, it will have much more depth and the figures in the painting will really come to life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: Masterpiece getting the attention it deserves. I'm Paula Newton. I want to thank you for your company. There's more Newsroom with Max Foster in London after a quick break.
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