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CNN International: Kennedy Believes Vaccines Cause Autism; Biden at APEC Summit with Shadow of Trump Tariffs Looming; South Africa Refusing to Help Illegal Miners Underground; Trump Picks RFK Jr,., as Health & Human Services Secretary; "Worst of the Worst": CNN Goes Inside El Salvador Prison; Mike Tyson Slaps Jake Paul During Stare Down at Weigh-In. Aired 8-9a ET
Aired November 15, 2024 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[08:00:00]
MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers all around the world. I'm Max Foster. This is CNN "Newsroom". Just ahead, U.S. President-Elect Donald Trump, names vaccine skeptic Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to lead the Department of Health and Human Services.
We'll have reaction to his latest controversial cabinet pick. Joe Biden, meanwhile, preparing to meet with world leaders in Peru at the APEC summit. And later CNN gets exclusive access to a prison in El Salvador, holding some of the country's most dangerous criminals.
U.S. President-Elect Donald Trump says he hopes to quote, Make America Great and Healthy again by naming Robert F. Kennedy Jr. as his pick to lead the Department of Health and Human Services. The job oversees the CDC, the FDA, the National Institutes of Health, as well as Medicare and Medicaid, through which tens of millions of Americans get their health care. Donald Trump says he expects great things from Kennedy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND CURRENT PRESIDENTIAL- ELECT: We want you to come up with things and ideas and what you've been talking about for a long time, and I think you're going to do some unbelievable thing, nobody is going to be able to do it like you, and boy, does he feel it in his heart.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Despite that, the pick is raising alarm bells in some circles, Kennedy has frequently spread false conspiracy theories about the safety of vaccines. Here are some of his controversial views in his own words.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., FORMER INDEPENDENT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I do believe that autism does come from vaccines. COVID-19 is targeted to attack Caucasians and Black people. The people who are most immune are Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese. Wi Fi radiation is does all kinds of bad things, including causing cancer. Some of these mass shootings that we're seeing in this country may be related to this new this new class of jobs, as our --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: In addition to Kennedy, Donald Trump announced Doug Burgum to be his Interior Secretary and his personal criminal defense attorney. Todd Blanche to be Deputy Attorney General. Steve Contorno, making sense of all of this for us from Florida, a huge amount going on in your state right now.
STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: Yeah, and Donald Trump keeps picking from my state to represent his new cabinet. He has Matt Gaetz as his Attorney General. He's a Florida Congressman. Another Florida Congressman, Mike Waltz will be serving in as one of his National Intelligence, National Security Advisors as well.
So, he has dipped into the Florida well, and Secretary of State Marco Rubio will be from is a Florida Senator. So, he's clearly picking from his home state, RFK Jr. though his latest pick, one of his latest picks, not from Florida, but certainly the reverberations of his policies and proposals will be felt here and throughout the country is someone who is incredibly controversial because of his past statements on public health.
What you just played was just a sampling of the controversial statements he has made over the years that have been repudiated by health experts, the medical community at large, science and even some of the studies that he has cited have been pulled back, so it will be interesting to see what his confirmation process is like.
Obviously, him and Matt Gaetz are the two names that have been throw out there right now by Donald Trump that are going to have one of the more difficult paths to confirmation. There are only four votes in the Senate they can afford to lose. And in the case of RFK Jr. look, he not only runs the risk of not being able to get the entire Republican or entire Democratic Senate behind him.
But also, some Republicans in the Senate might be averse to his incredibly progressive views on animal agriculture and on the environment. He has been a Democrat up until he changed parties to run for president, so he has a path to nomination that will be incredibly difficult and will put him through the ringer and will be -- we'll see just how much power and influence Donald Trump has over his party if he can get through this very controversial nomination.
FOSTER: Another one. Steve contorno, thank you so much. Robert Kennedy's false claims about vaccines and nothing new. For example, the myth that vaccines cause autism. The CDC says study after study shows that's just not the case. Despite that, this was RFK earlier this year on Fox News.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KENNEDY JR: Well, I do believe that autism does come from vaccines. I think most of the things that people believe about my opinions, about vaccines are wrong. I you know all I've said about vaccines, we should have good science.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Doctor Sanjay Gupta, joining us now from New York. Sanjay, I mean, this is such a big talking point around the world, because actually, a lot of these conspiracy theories are global. A lot of people buy into them. What worries you about the misinformation, and even just the lack of positivity about the good things about vaccines that are being put out there?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, I think there's really measurable ways of sort of assessing the impact of that kind of information, but just really quickly, Max, on the vaccines and autism thing. To give you some context, I mean, this was an issue that was raised in the late 90s through a paper that was subsequently debunked, but it raised the question, is there a correlation?
Is there a cause and effect between vaccines and autism? And so, it was studied in these big studies, Max, I'm talking about a million plus Children studies, where they compared children who had been vaccinated, to children who had not, and they followed them along for more than a decade to see what the truth was?
What they could find, and what they found was that there was not any kind of correlation between vaccines and autism. And again, hundreds of thousands of kids in these studies and some of these meta analyzes, over a million kids. This is how science is supposed to work.
I mean, it's maybe a worthy question that was asked 25 years ago, but then it was answered, and that's how science is supposed to work. In the clip you just played, he says, I believe vaccines cause autism. Still, it's concerning because he also knows these studies. He sees these studies.
So, you got to ask yourself at that point, it's not even assailing the message that he's doing as much as he's assailing the messengers. He's really going after these scientists, while he may be in a position to be leading them, but to your specific question, the impact of this vaccine hesitancy, this antagonism towards vaccines.
If you go back 30 years, say, kids that were born 1994 through 2023 what was the impact of vaccines at that point? And you can see the number of illnesses, hospitalizations and deaths that they prevented. A million deaths prevented over that time period, 500 million illnesses, 32 million hospitalizations.
I mean, you don't hear about prevention enough, because nothing happens, and that's sort of the point of preventative medicine. You'd much rather prevent these diseases than have to treat them, and that's what we're at risk of losing.
FOSTER: Yeah, it's going to be very confusing for a lot of people, isn't it? Because this organization is going to be running its sprawling, isn't it? It really does get its tentacles into every different part of healthcare in the U.S.
GUPTA: Yeah. I mean, the health care budget in the United States, the amount of money we spend on health care in the United States, 4.5 trillion dollars a year. OK, it's the most expensive in the world by far, twice as much per capita as the next most expensive. And to be fair, we don't have the outcomes to show for that.
And I think that's part of the message of Robert Kennedy that people do sort of latch on to make America healthy again. Yeah. I mean, we eat terribly. There are toxins in the food. There are all sorts of problems, for sure. But again, the vaccine issue may be a metaphor for how he may approach science overall.
HHS Health and Human Services is the FDA in the United States. It is the CDC Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. It's a National Institute of Health, which is one of the gold standard scientific organizations in the world, not just the United States. And then it oversees Medicare and Medicaid, which is about 100 million people who rely on those services for their health care.
So, I think it's the largest agency, executive agency in the country, but a $2 trillion budget, 80,000 employees. I mean, so it's massive, Max.
FOSTER: Sanjay really appreciate your thoughts on that is something that will be worrying many people around the world particularly when they're choosing whether or not to, you know, give these vaccines to their children. We're going to take a closer look now at some of these really unorthodox picks.
CNN's David Chalian joins us now, thank you so much for joining us. It really feels like we're going through a period of economic political history right now because they are so unorthodox, so disruptive. And someone like RFK in charge of health, what does that mean, do you think?
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN SENIOR VP & WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF: Well, you just heard Sanjay walk-in through what it could mean in various health policy pieces. But what's at play here? What we're seeing here is political reward. RFK Jr. for anyone that was paying attention to Donald Trump on the campaign trail was a key critical component of Donald Trump's fall campaign.
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By bowing out and ending his independent bid and joining forces with Donald Trump, we heard Donald Trump say, day in and day out, I'm going to let RFK Jr. go wild on health and now this is the reward for all of that political work that he did. And listen, there is still going to be a Senate confirmation process.
I would imagine RFK Jr. is going to have not a difficult time getting through the confirmation process. Republican senators in the majority are going to most likely want Donald Trump to be able to have the cabinet he seeks. And in terms of the disruption, this is something that's going to play out over months to come, to see how much RFK Jr. really does disrupt and change all these health institutions that the government is in charge of.
FOSTER: Just for the outside world, I think most people would understand that the Democrats would vote against some of these nominations. You know, there's a lot of MAGA, senators aren't there. They'll go for the nominations. I'm just wondering who's the group that could sway whether or not these nominations go through? Are they moderate Republicans?
CHALIAN: It's a good question, and you are right to say this is a Republican Party in the U.S. Congress. Now that is much more in Donald Trump's image, in the MAGA mold, than the Republican Congress he inherited when he first became president in 2017.
However, there are still a couple of moderate Republicans, like Susan Collins of Maine or Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, who have at times gone against Trump's wishes or expressed dissatisfaction with Trump's direction, but that's too if Democrats remain unified in opposition to a pick.
They're going to need four Republicans to join them, and it is not entirely clear where they might get two more and it's also not clear I should note that Collins and Murkowski would be certain no votes. So, senates tend especially if in control of the president's party, tend to give the incoming president deference in forming his cabinet.
We may see one or two of his nominee falters along the way and maybe can't muster the votes. But I wouldn't bet on it, given the way the math works out in the Senate in the President-Elect's favor.
FOSTER: He's a very powerful president, isn't he? Or he will be. David Chalian, thank you so much for joining us.
CHALIAN: Yeah. Thank you.
FOSTER: U.S. President Joe Biden, Chinese counterpart, Xi Jinping, they are attending the first day of the APEC summit in Lima, Peru. This comes ahead of a planned face to face meeting this Saturday between the sitting leaders of the world's two biggest economies looming over all of this, Donald Trump's threatened tariffs of course.
Some countries have been talking about how to insulate their economies against potential challenges posed by the President-Elect. CNN's Kayla Tausche is traveling with the president. Joins us live from Lima, Peru. Kayla, thank you so much for joining us. I'm just really wondering what, you know, Biden can really do for Xi at this point?
KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think the expectation is that there's not very much that Biden can do for Xi, and in speaking with China experts, they expect that any potential deliverables or negotiations that Xi could put forth will be withheld to potentially negotiate with President-Elect Donald Trump, who has threatened a renewed trade war with China once he takes office in January. That being said, President Biden and his team are expected to try to chart progress on some key issues for them, that they set in motion at a similar bilateral at this very summit last year, when it was held in California, those being military level communication, curbing illicit fentanyl trafficking, as well as trying to maintain peace and stability in the Taiwan Strait and the broader Indo-Pacific, which, of course, is of high interest to all of the 21 nations who are here at the APEC summit in Lima, Peru.
But there is this awkwardness that is the backdrop to this entire summit. U.S. officials say to me that while these leaders are physically in South America. Or anyone can think about and talk about is what is happening in Palm Beach, Florida and in Washington, D.C.,
With the Biden Administration aware that these world leaders are all working amongst themselves, talking amongst themselves, to figure out how they can prepare in tandem for the forthcoming second term of Donald Trump. And when I asked U.S. officials about what they can do to try to safeguard some of these alliances and partnerships from some of the threats that Trump has lobbed at them.
They say there's really nothing they can do at this point, and even if there were that many of these countries would be loath to try to do anything that could put them on a back foot with the incoming administration. So, it really puts the Biden Administration in a very difficult position going into many of these conversations.
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That being said, they volunteered the president will establish, re- establish some of these close friendships, ties with countries like Japan, South Korea as well as the host nations here in South America. He'll also be delivering an address on climate and conservation from the Amazon to try to stake his claim on some of the climate progress that has been done.
All of this, of course, a bid to shape Biden's legacy, even as the world is about to change dramatically yet again.
FOSTER: Really is. Kayla back with you after that meeting to see what comes out of it. Still to come, Israel keeps up its punishing airstrikes on Lebanon. And now we're learning the refresh hopes for a cease fire live report on the crisis, when we return. Hundreds, possibly thousands of South African miners are underground with supplies of food and water dwindling. We'll explain exactly why.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: Just in to CNN, sources tell us that Hezbollah is considering a U.S.-Israeli ceasefire proposal as diplomatic efforts to end the conflict intensify this as Israel keeps up its attacks on targets in Lebanon, hitting the southern suburbs of Beirut for fourth day in the row as you can see.
Lebanese authorities, at least 43 people were killed across Lebanon on Thursday alone. This new video shows one airstrike on a densely packed neighborhood in the Lebanese capital, which levels a building to the ground. A large fireball and smoke seen billowing from the scene from miles away after the impact. Nada is looking at a ceasefire. You've talked about many potential ceasefires, Nada.
NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We have, and they always seem to be upended somehow, but there is some hope now. Sources and officials familiar with these talks telling CNN that the diplomatic efforts right now in Lebanon are intensifying. We've heard from one Lebanese official familiar with these ongoing discussions, who has said that the U.S. Ambassador to Lebanon, Lisa Johnson, relayed a proposal to the Lebanese government on Thursday night.
This was proposed to the speaker of parliament, Nabih Berri, who is known to be close to Hezbollah. And this is the first time in the last few weeks that we have seen this sort of re upping of discussions around the ceasefire since they were upended in September.
And of course, since they were upended after the killing of Hezbollah Leader Hassan Nasrallah, which of course, changed the situation entirely on the ground in Lebanon. We're also hearing from Lebanese officials that this current proposal on the table has already been endorsed by President-Elect Donald Trump.
He's endorsed the ongoing negotiations, which of course, have been spearheaded so far by the Biden Administration. So perhaps a signal there as to where this could move forward in January, perhaps following the inauguration, if indeed these hostilities are ongoing.
The hope is, of course, that there would be a ceasefire before then, a Lebanese government is said to be optimistic that Hezbollah may agree to this latest proposal.
[08:20:00]
What essentially, it is seeking to achieve is a 60-day temporary cessation of facilities that would eventually lead to a lasting permanent cease fire. One of the key terms of course, on the table is surrounding the presence of armed groups in southern Lebanon, south of Lebanon's Litani River.
The cease fire proposal says that it should be only really the Lebanese army and, of course, U.N. peacekeepers present in this area in particular. So, a removal of Hezbollah forces there, which is something, of course, that the Israeli government has been pushing for.
FOSTER: So, what's it targeting today in these strikes? Because it really does feel like it's getting very intense right now.
BASHIR: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, four straight days of strikes now in Beirut, in the capital. This is happening as Israel expands its ground defensive operation in southern Lebanon. We've been hearing yet more airstrikes in Beirut, reports of more airs, just in the last few hours, actually.
And of course, these are areas that are densely populated with civilians. It has to be underscored. The Israeli military says it is targeting Hezbollah infrastructure. This is the southern suburbs of Beirut, of course, known to be a Hezbollah stronghold, but it is also an area that is filled with residential buildings, apartment blocks --
FOSTER: -- from the pictures.
BASHIR: Yeah, it's devastating. You see civilians walking through the streets as these airstrikes are taking place, and not everyone is, of course, receiving these evacuation orders. Many are relying on word of mouth. So, it's a hugely troubling and concerning situation for civilians on the ground for a capital like this to be bombed for four straight days in the way that we have seen for the last few weeks, in the way that we have seen, of course, targeting areas that are very close to the airport as well.
FOSTER: OK, Nada, thank you. Tensions were high in Paris on Thursday, where Israel played France in a nation's league football match. A brief scuffle broke out in the stands during the game. Video shows a brief altercation between a small number of fans, some with Israeli flags on their backs.
French officials deployed thousands of extra security police, security personnel, rather after recent violence in Amsterdam. President Emmanuel Macron attended the game and said, France stands against antisemitism and violence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMMANUEL MACRON, FRECH PRESIDENT: We won't give in to antisemitism or to violence anywhere, including in the French Republic, it will never prevail. And the same goes for intimidation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: The match ended a nil-nil draw. In South Africa, the families of hundreds of illegal miners currently waiting for news about their face after police cut off vital supplies to them. Still part of government crackdown on illegal mining, which costs around, well, it costs millions of dollars, really, every year for South Africa.
The miners are underground in a disused coal mine and are believed to be running out of food and water after police closed entrances used to send supplies to them. Victoria Rubadiri joins us from Nairobi. We should explain why they're down there in the first place.
VICTORIA RUBADIRI, CNN CORRESPONDENT OF CONNECTING AFRICA: That's right, Max. The reason is a lot of those mine entrances had not been sealed off once those abandoned mines were closed or stopped operating, and that was one of the complaints by community members and families who are still waiting to hear from a lot of these miners still underground.
It's a distressing situation. Here's what one of the family members had to say today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ROSELINA, FAMILY MEMBER OF TRAPPED MINER: We hope they come out so we can take them home. One has a wife who is here. She's just crying. We don't know how to help her. Her husband went underground in April and has been down there until now, no food, no water. We're trying to support her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUBADIRI: So earlier on in the last hour, at least, the police minister, who has been touring the area, actually met with community members. And they've been extremely disappointed with how the government has handled this situation. Many of them feeling that the government should consider its moral obligation in rescuing these illegal miners.
And of course, what has come up is the government's inability to put proper regulation when it comes to clamping down on illegal mining in the country. Many of them asking, you need to seal off many of these areas to prevent these illegal miners from accessing these mines in the first place.
And it's not a job by choice, Max, we were talking about this a bit earlier on. It's a last resort job. Many of these miners are risking their lives going as deep as four kilometers underground to retrieve gold deposits, and oftentimes they end up in the black market, and so they're trying to earn a living through this trade.
One thing that the government needs to address is the issue of unemployment. Many young South Africans who can't find formal work resort often to this kind of trade.
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And so, the bigger concern now for the government is to bring this situation to what they call a lawful and safe resolution. But time is a factor here, and the longer it takes, well, the less likely that more minors will be coming up alive.
FOSTER: OK, Victoria, thank you. Still to come, House Republicans cancel a scheduled ethics committee meeting regarding the investigation into Matt Gaetz on the same day it had been expected to release a potentially damning report against the Former Florida Congressman.
Then despite the controversy surrounding Gaetz and some other controversial cabinet picks, we are learning the Trump transition maybe skipping traditional FBI background checks, details ahead.
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FOSTER: So now the controversial cabinet pick by the incoming U.S. President Donald Trump has chosen conspiracy theorists and vaccine skeptic Robert F. Kennedy Jr., to head the Department of Health and Human Services. The Department oversees several agencies, including the CDC, and it regulates vaccines. Kennedy has long criticized vaccines, falsely claiming they cause autism. Here's how the President-Elect described Kennedy with this not-so-subtle job as it were.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Another one who's another great mind and a great guy, and so popular. And I think he's right. He wants to make people healthy. I just looked at the news reports people like you, Bobby, don't get too popular, Bobby.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Meanwhile, we're learning another one of Trump's questionable cabinet picks, according to some Pete Hegseth, for Secretary of Defense, was once involved in a police investigation into an alleged sexual assault. There's growing pressure to release an ethics report on perhaps Trump's most controversial cabinet pick of all, that's Matt Gaetz for attorney general.
But Republicans on the House Ethics Committee canceled a scheduled meeting for today that was supposed to address the long-awaited report into Gaetz' behavior. Tom Foreman has more on the allegations.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is a horrible allegation, and it is a lie, having sex with a teenager, paying for sex, using illicit drugs, accepting improper gifts and dispensing special favors. Those are just some of the accusations that have swirled around the Former Florida Congressman. Matt Gaetz has always denied them, saying political enemies and even extortionists have pushed the claims.
MATT GAETZ, FORMER UNITED STATES REPRESENTATIVE: I am the most investigated man in the United States, Congress.
FOREMAN (voice-over): To be sure, a Justice Department probe into whether Gaetz was involved in sex trafficking produced no charges last year, even as another Florida politician in Gaetz' circle pled guilty. But there is more.
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Former Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy says Gaetz helped push him out precisely because McCarthy would not derail the House probe into Gaetz' behavior.
KEVIN MCCARTHY, FORMER U.S. HOUSE SPEAKER: A member of Congress wanted me to stop an ethics complaint because he slept with a 17-year-old. Did he do it or not? I don't know, but an ethics is looking at it. There are other people in jail because of it.
GAETZ: Chaos is Speaker McCarthy.
FOREMAN (voice-over): A conservative firebrand, Gaetz was also a firm ally as Donald Trump faced his own legal troubles.
GAETZ: -- our friend President Trump --
FOREMAN (voice-over): Standing with the embattled former president when he was convicted of dozens of felonies, which Trump also disputed.
TRUMP: The people of our country know it's a hoax.
FOREMAN (voice-over): But lawmakers left and right are saying Gaetz is not Trump, and they want to see the House investigation report into his behavior.
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): I think there should not be any limitation on the Senate Judiciary committee's investigation, including whatever the House Ethics Committee is generated.
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): Matt Gaetz has chosen to resign from the House, but he can't choose to conceal that information.
FOREMAN (voice-over): But he can choose, as he has in the past, to fight.
GAETZ: I face down tougher than these folks, and I'll do it again.
FOREMAN (on camera): All of this has some members of the Republican Party clearly squirming. And if the revelations continue, we'll see if they start squirming even more. Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: It's not just the President-Elect's cabinet picks that are unconventional, it's also the way they're being vetted or possibly not. People close to the Transition Planning Team say the team is bypassing traditional FBI background checks for some of the cabinet selections and using private companies to conduct investigations into potential candidates.
So, what does this all mean when it comes to security clearances? CNN's Zachary Cohen joins us now live in Washington. I guess the first question is, are they able to do that? Can the president just sanction that?
ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yeah, Max. There's no legally binding sort of clause that requires Donald Trump to opt in to the FBI background checks, but it is an established protocol that dates back decades now, and it's something that is goes beyond just being a norm.
It's a process that's intended to ensure that cabinet picks, top administration nominees, that they don't have any unknown foreign ties, and there's no additional issues that could create national security problems in the future, especially those that have access to classified information. And look given the controversy surrounding several of Donald Trump's cabinet picks already. Including his pick for attorney general, which is a job that does require security clearance, and his pick for the Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, this news that we broke today about the skirting of the FBI background check process is causing concerns amongst Democrats and some Republicans, who say that they need to have all the information available about these candidates as they go through the confirmation process.
And that this is essentially a concern that Trump and his team are trying to sidestep, sort of the process that could unearth some politically damaging information about some of these candidates. Now look Donald Trump believes, according to our sources, that the FBI background check process is slow and that it could prevent him from trying to implement his agenda more quickly.
But look again, this is a well-established protocol, and one that's been in place for decades. And it's intended to protect national security, and U.S. National Security, as well as the nation's top secrets.
FOSTER: In terms of, you know, what might happen if these nominations go through, they haven't had the proper background checks. What sort of problems does that cause for the security agencies?
COHEN: In the short term, until these candidates are vetted and these individuals are do pass a background check. They can't receive briefings from the U.S. intelligence community and from their various agencies that they will ultimately end up having a top job at and look but once, the reality is that once Donald Trump is sworn in on January 20.
He can essentially decide who gets access to classified information, regardless of any concerns that are raised by the FBI or the intelligence community that also participates in the vetting process. So, look, we saw this happen during Donald Trump's previous term, where he overrode concerns from the intelligence community.
25 individuals in his administration were denied access to a security clearance, including his son-in-law, Jared Kushner. Trump decided that they should still get access to that classified information, and they were provided that access. So, we could be headed to a similar situation now, but Trump may be trying to sidestep one potential hurdle in that process.
FOSTER: Zachary, thank you. Let's get back to some of those cabinet picks. Then Larry Sabato joins us now, Director of course at the University of Virginia Center for Politics, the editor of "A Return to Normalcy?" the 2020 election that almost broke America, doesn't feel very normal right now. Does it, Larry?
LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR OF CENTER FOR POLITICS AT THE UNIVERSITY IF VIRGINIA: You know that it would be a very different title about this election?
FOSTER: Yeah.
SABATO: For sure.
FOSTER: In terms is Gaetz, the cabinet pick that sticks out to you because it does seem to be the most disruptive, if you like.
[08:35:00]
SABATO: Well, you could make an argument for three or four of them, but I would say maybe Gaetz is number one. Maybe that's the thinking behind this group of very unusual and controversial nominees that Donald Trump has already made and he has many more appointments to come.
One wonders whether Gaetz is the bait that the Republican senators will take, so they can prove their independence from Donald Trump while approving all of the other controversial nominees. We'll see. I can't imagine the Republican Senate turning down one or at most two.
FOSTER: Yeah, well, we're talking earlier, you know, with our Washington team. And actually, if you look at the numbers, there's very little the Democrats can do to block these nominations. There's a lot of MAGA senators, and the ones in the middle aren't necessarily going to say no to Trump in his first month of office.
SABATO: That's exactly right. And so many of them privately will say that these nominations are crazy and these people shouldn't be approved. And believe me, they'll walk right in and vote for them and then go out and face the TV cameras and praise Trump for his brilliance in picking these individuals.
FOSTER: What about the ethics panel not releasing this report on Gaetz? You know, in ordinary times, there wouldn't be any reason for them to hold it back, would they, when they had it scheduled?
SABATO: Yes, of course. He resigned from this Congress. He didn't necessarily resign from the next Congress. He was re-elected November 5, but he did it just in time so that the ethics committee could say, whoops, he's not in Congress, so we have no jurisdiction over this. We'll shut down the investigation.
But Max, I'll bet you a large sum of money that this report will leak one way or the other. The Ethics Committee is divided evenly between the two parties in the House, so it's going to be interesting to see whether it gets out, and maybe how it gets out.
FOSTER: Does it make any difference, though? I mean, if it's got what in it, what we think is in it, it won't surprise anyone, so therefore, might not change things. I mean, what substantive would come out of it?
SABATO: Yeah, that's entirely possible. Now, people who oppose Gaetz for various reasons could use this as an excuse to vote no. But for Donald Trump, of course, it means nothing at all. He even identifies with these people because they've been accused of some of the very same things that he's been accused of, or even found guilty of. FOSTER: I also want to just ask you about JFK, because, I mean, this is RFK, I'm sorry. The -- obviously, if he somehow reduces the use of vaccines, because he's got these conspiracy theories about them. You know, the health industry in America is enormous, it's profound. You can't imagine any of them really agreeing with that move. I mean, how would that play out?
SABATO: Well, the problem is, of course, that he has a blank check from President Trump. No question about it. He can do whatever he wants to do now, whether it will completely go through, or the professionals in HHS, at the various agencies that we all recognize, whether they will go along with it, or, frankly, quick, you know, many of them are the best known in their profession, the most able.
They can do much better on the outside, get much higher salaries. But look, this goes way beyond vaccines as dangerous as it is, because we're talking about millions and millions of lives potentially lost if these vaccines are not available. He's opposed to the fluoridation of water.
That was a debate we had, and I came in at that time, in the 1950s and 1960s the far right claimed that communists had produced the fluoridation of water and it was making our children communist. It would be funny if it weren't so serious.
FOSTER: OK, Larry, really appreciate your time is out. "New York Times" reporting, Elon Musk met with Iran's Ambassador to the U.N. this week. The talks between the world's richest person and Iranian Envoy Amir Iravani were apparently held at a secret location.
According to the newspaper, Iranian officials said the discussion was focused on how to diffuse tensions between the two countries. A U.S. official says the Biden Administration wasn't given any heads up about the meeting, and it's not clear why Musk, who has been chosen to head up a newly conceived department of government efficiency, would or should be taking part in a major foreign policy challenge. Still to come.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: It's been equated to seven football stadiums.
[08:40:00]
It's almost multiple prisons within the prison, you can see off to the distance, there's three different rings, as they describe. The far end, you have one that's nine meters high of concrete, and then above that, three meters of electrified fencing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- 15,000 volts.
CULVER: 15,000 volts.
(END VIDEO CLIP) FOSTER: CNN's David Culver takes us on an exclusive tour of one of the world's prisons, the worst prisons, really in the world, some people call it. A place that's being praised by the man picked to be the next U.S. Attorney General.
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FOSTER: President-Elect Donald Trump's pick for U.S. Attorney General Matt Gaetz will oversee U.S. prisons, if he's confirmed. Back in July, Gaetz took a tour of one of the world's most brutal prisons and suggested that it should be a model for the U.S. This prison is where El Salvador keeps the, quote, worst of the worst.
Murderers, rapists, gang members, including some who were deported from the U.S. El Salvador's President released a video some of Gaetz' comments after his visit to that facility.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GAETZ: There's a lot more discipline in this prison than we see in a lot of the prisons in the United States. This is the solution.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Well, CNN is the first major U.S. news organization to gain access to the prison system that Gaetz has been praising. Our David Culver takes you inside for this exclusive report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CULVER: All right -- go in here.
CULVER (voice-over): Even as I'm stepping through these doors, I don't fully grasp what we're about to walk into. Suddenly, you're hit with the intense gaze of dozens locking onto you. These men described as the worst of the worst, tattooed with reminders of El Salvador's dark past. It's tense and uncomfortable, but here, officials say comfort isn't meant to exist.
CULVER: There's, no mattresses, there's no sheets. You've got a toilet over here for them to go to the bathroom. You've got this base in here that they use to bathe themselves. And then you can see there, there's a barrel of water that they can drink from.
CULVER (voice-over): This is a rare look inside El Salvador's terrorism confinement center known as CECOT.
CULVER: And he says there's always somebody standing here in front of the cells. And then if you look up, there's another corridor with more security personnel -- 24/7 light.
CULVER (voice-over): The prison sits like an isolated fortress, nestled in mountainous terrain about an hour and a half drive from the capital. Even with government officials on board with us, we're stopped a mile out.
CULVER: OK, he's going to inspect bags now too. OK, we're clear to get back in.
CULVER (voice-over): Only to hit another checkpoint. Approaching the main gate, our cell signals vanish.
[08:45:00]
CULVER: They want to do a full search on us before we enter.
CULVER (voice-over): Once cleared, we tour the vast campus.
CULVER: It's been equated to seven football stadiums. It's almost multiple prisons within the prison, you can see off to the distance, there's three different rings, as they describe the far end, you have one that's nine meters high of concrete, and then above that, three meters of electrified fencing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- 15,000 volts.
CULVER: 15,000 volts.
CULVER (voice-over): More than 1000 security personnel, guards, police and military are stationed on site. Inmates are assigned to one of eight sectors.
CULVER: The director tells me the inmates, once they're inside one of these sectors, they never leave. Everything is done within, including doctors as well as legal visits or court hearings.
CULVER (voice-over): Each sector holds more than two dozen large cells.
CULVER: Roughly 80 inmates per cell. But it can fluctuate.
CULVER (voice-over): Most bear the markings of the gangs that held this nation hostage for decades, committing brutal acts of violence.
MARVIN VASQUEZ, PRISONER: You got to kill people, you got to rob, you got to do what you got to do to survive.
CULVER: You have to do those things.
VASQUEZ: Yeah, you got to do that.
CULVER (voice-over): We meet 41-year-old Marvin Vasquez, shackled and heavily guarded.
CULVER: What gang were you part of?
VASQUEZ: MS-13?
CULVER: Do you have any gang affiliations?
VASQUEZ: Yeah, I'm tattooed up.
CULVER: What is this?
VASQUEZ: Crazy criminal. Say, crazy criminal, yeah, I made this click in 2011.
CULVER: You made the click?
VASQUEZ: Yeah, you were a gang leader?
CULVER: Is it like to live here?
VASQUEZ: It's probably not a hotel five star, but they give you the three times the food. They give you some programs. You got to do exercise. Some church religion programs too.
CULVER: But that's limited to just 30 minutes a day. The other 23.5 hours, they're kept inside and locked up.
CULVER (voice-over): For inmates who get violent with other prisoners or guards.
CULVER: We're going to close the door. I just want to get a sense. Wow!
CULVER (voice-over): Solitary confinement awaits.
CULVER: The only light you get is through this hole. They can be in here for 15 days potentially. All right, I'm ready to get out. The director brought up that a lot of folks will raise concerns from a human rights perspective and an abuse of human rights, that he's calm hearing that because he sees it day to day, the process they go through to maintain, as he sees it, proper punishment.
CULVER (voice-over): While you're cut off from society here, whispers of life on the outside make their way in.
VASQUEZ: I've heard about it that it's a new El Salvador. It looks different.
CULVER (voice-over): That new El Salvador has emerged under President Nayib Bukele, who took office in 2019 and declared a controversial state of emergency more than two years ago, it sparked an aggressive crackdown on crime. We see that firsthand as some 2500 police and soldiers deploy into one neighborhood.
CULVER: It's going to go on through the night for however long it takes for them to root out any suspected criminal elements.
CULVER (voice-over): Critics argue Bukele's strategy has given him far reaching power to suppress dissent and silence any opposition. Late last week, as the U.S. State Department lowered its travel advisory for El Salvador, citing a significant reduction in crime. It also warned that Bukele's emergency measures allow authorities to arrest anyone suspected of gang activity and suspends constitutional rights. And yet, most we meet seem unfazed by the added show of force.
CULVER: I asked him, I said, how do you feel with all these soldiers? I mean, there's a couple of dozen just even right outside his door. And he said, no, I feel safe. CULVER (voice-over): El Salvador now has one of the world's highest incarceration rates, the most hardening criminals brought the CECOT where inside a life sentence awaits.
VASQUEZ: We did bad things. We paid the rough way doing time.
CULVER (voice-over): And yet, for many on the outside, the prison now a symbol of newfound freedom, the new El Salvador, as they see it.
CULVER (on camera): Now, you've got other Latin-American countries that are building what some are considering to be Bukele's style prisons, namely Ecuador and Honduras. No question. It's controversial. Some think it is far too extreme. But when you speak to the folks on the ground in El Salvador.
And we've made multiple trips there, even those who disagree with Bukele's tactics will tell you they're incredibly happy with the outcome. They feel far safer, safer than they've ever felt before in their own country.
[08:50:00]
Many of them will say that as extreme as those tactics are, they were necessary to eradicate the gangs that really took control of the country for so many years. David Culver, CNN, West Palm Beach, Florida.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Up next, former YouTuber Jake Paul will face Mike Tyson, the former heavyweight champion, the major fight, and it's tonight who has the better odds. We'll go through it.
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FOSTER: Thursday's slap in the face may have an influence on tonight's punch in the mouth. Iron Mike Tyson, the 58-year-old former heavyweight champion will face former YouTuber Jake Paul in Arlington, Texas on Friday night. The bout was originally set place to take place in July, but was rescheduled when Tyson became ill.
He had an ulcer flare up. Tyson says he's ready for the fight now. CNN's Carolyn Manno has more on tonight's big fights, everything, like kids, lot talking about,
CAROLYN MANNO, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: It's all anyone can talk about here stateside, Max. Honestly, I mean, it's fodder for the water cooler now, and it could draw up to 100 million people, as it's being offered on Netflix as they gear towards more live programming.
But whether you love this or you hate this, it is certainly something that has become must see TV. The 58-year-old former heavyweight champ who, like you said, was suffering from serious ulcers not that long ago, squaring off against this 27-year-old social media influencer turned fighter, Jake Paul, who has 20 million, upwards of 20 million followers across social media, and the gloves, as you can see, are already off.
This was Tyson slapping Paul across the face with a wide-open hand during yesterday's way. And the two are quickly separated by security. Here's what they had to say afterwards.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAKE PAUL, PROFESSIONAL RECORD OF 10-1 WITH 6 KOS: I don't even feel it. He's angry. He's the angry little elf. Mike Tyson, I thought that was a cute slap buddy, but tomorrow, you're getting knocked -- out -- It's personal now! He must die!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mike, can I ask the world is excited to see you one last time? Perhaps, can you just tell us the emotions, the thoughts that are going through your mind right now.
MIKE TYSON, FORMER UNDISPUTED WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION: Talking --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why did you push him there? All right, that's it. That's it for Mike Tyson.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MANNO: And Max, there were reports afterwards that Tyson felt like his foot was stepped on by Jake Paul when he invaded his personal space, and that's why he reacted that way, but this is Tyson's first professional fight in close to 20 years. Paul has built a 10 on 1 record in his six-year boxing career.
Six of those wins coming by way of a knockout, but this is certainly his most high-profile fight to date, when you think about the resume that iron Mike Tyson has, even though he is roughly double the age of Jake Paul. But we'll see what happens tonight, and certainly, millions and millions of people here in the United States and globally are going to be watching.
FOSTER: What do you think is a challenge for Tyson? Presumably, obviously, he's got the experience, he's got the skill. He looks fantastic, doesn't he? But is it endurance that will be the challenge for him?
MANNO: I think there are serious medical questions about his condition after having this ulcer back in May that was basically caused an emergency landing on this flight to Miami where he had this two and a half inch bleeding ulcer and had to stop training. He lost close to 30 pounds.
He said he was able to put that back on. But I think it's just the wear and tear that comes with being a boxer in your 60s, it could be endurance.
[08:55:00]
He might not have the strength that he once has. They are roughly the same weight. Mike Tyson, in his prime was upwards of 220 pounds, and that's what Jake Paul is weighing in at. So, it's just a question of whether or not he can survive. Now, given that, Max, quickly, I will add you know, the record that Jake Paul has in the boxing ring.
He really hasn't fought anybody substantive, certainly nobody closes to Mike Tyson and what he was able to do in his prime. So, I could see it going either way, but I know for sure that fans are there because of the theatrics surrounding it all leading up to this.
FOSTER: You're right, Carolyn. And thank you so much for joining us from New York. Thanks for joining me here in London. I'm Max Foster. "Connect the World" with Erica is up next.
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