Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

RFK Jr. Pushes False Claim That Vaccines Cause Autism; Trump Defense Secretary Pick Pete Hegseth Involved In 2017 Police Investigation Of Alleged Sexual Assault; Now: Police Sgt. Who Found Laken Riley's Body Testifies. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired November 15, 2024 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: -- city of Georgia campus.

And coming up later --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sam? Sam?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's OK. It's OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sam may not do it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody all right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: How -- how terrifying is that? That turbulence miles up in the sky, one woman who wasn't wearing her seatbelt, quote, flew up to the ceiling.

Hello. Happy Friday, everyone. I'm Pamela Brown in Washington, and you're in the CNN Newsroom.

Outrage and major concern, that's how many people in the medical community are reacting to President-elect Donald Trump's pick a vaccine skeptic RFK Jr. to lead the nation's Health Department. One former health secretary even calling it, quote, terrifying for the American public. Even former Vice President Mike Pence says he opposes the controversial choice. His issue was with his stance on abortion. But Trump and his allies obviously disagree. Trump, for his part, heaped praise on his controversial choice last night at a gala in Florida.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT-ELECT: We want you to come up with things and ideas and what you've been talking about for a long time. And -- and I think you're going to do some unbelievable thing. Nobody, nobody's going to be able to do it like you. And, boy, does he feel it in his heart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: RFK Jr. has a long history of spreading unfounded conspiracy theories about health issues and vaccines. And here are two of them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR.: COVID-19 is targeted to attack Caucasians and -- and -- and black people. The people who are most immune are Ashkenazi Jews and -- and Chinese. And we don't know whether it was deliberately targeted that or not.

I do believe that autism does come from vaccines. But I think most of the things that people believe about my opinions about vaccines are wrong. I, you know, all -- all I've said about vaccines, we should have good science.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Joining us now is CNN chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay, great to see you.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi Pamela.

BROWN: So we just heard from Kennedy in that "Fox News" interview earlier this year about vaccines and autism. Set the record straight on this unfounded claim and tell us about what the science shows when it comes to vaccines and autism.

GUPTA: Yes, I mean, first of all, in that clip that you just played, which was from June of this year, he says, I do believe vaccines cause autism. And then he says he wants to get good science into the equation. These two things, sort of, Pamela, are at odds with -- with one another. I mean, he has this belief. That belief has persisted for him, although he does seem to say different things in different interviews.

Where -- where this came from was really in the late 90s, there was a paper of 12 children that showed 12 children who'd received the MMR vaccine who had autism. And the author of that paper, Andrew Wakefield, drew a cause and effect relationship there. That paper was subsequently retracted, but it did, you know, inspire a lot of different studies over the last 25 years, huge studies, you know, hundreds of thousands of children who've been followed for more than a decade.

A certain percentage had vaccines, certain percentage did not. The question was -- was there some sort of relationship between vaccines and autism? There wasn't. So the question was asked and it has been answered. Subsequently as we've been able to get better science actually looking at the brain, even inside the womb of babies, you find that there are changes that happen in the brain while babies are still in the womb, meaning that there's probably a genetic component to autism that is still being discovered.

Point is that they had changes related to autism in their brains long before they would have ever received vaccines. So there's all this science that has emerged, much of what he has seen, probably RFK Jr. and yet still here we are, you know, him -- him -- him saying these same things. And it's -- it's causing a lot of fear, I think, among people and a lot of vaccine hesitancy.

BROWN: Yes, fear particularly in the medical community, right, who are relying on what the data shows, what the science shows on this issue. I do want to note that Kennedy said after the election he would not take vaccines away from anybody. But he has also said he was against vaccine mandates. What could the potential impact be if school kids weren't required to get vaccines?

GUPTA: Yes. And again, this is the -- the sort of slippery slope where he -- he talks about things differently from one day to the next or even one interview to the next. I -- I think, you know, if you look at the impact of vaccines and you just take a period of time, in this case, let's go back 30 years, 1994 to 2023, and say, OK, for the people who got vaccinated during that time, what is the impact overall? And you see that it -- it leads to reduction of a million deaths, preventing a million deaths, 500 some million illnesses, 32 million hospitalizations. It's the thing about prevent -- preventative medicine, Pamela, is that the -- the end product is that nothing should happen, right, that you prevent an illness.

[11:05:10]

Sometimes it's hard to convey that in medicine that if you do these things, then the end product will be nothing will happen. And -- and that's a good thing. But there's, I think, pretty clear evidence of -- of just how impactful vaccines can be. I think one of the things worth pointing out is that again, this data exists. I'm sure a lot of people in RFK's world have seen this data. And oftentimes it becomes a question then of not -- not believing the data or actually going after the messengers of the data, in this case the scientist, for example, at the NIH, going after them, trying to undermine their trust, the organization that he may lead, depending on what happens over the next few months.

BROWN: That's a really important point. And -- and I do want to note as we look at big picture, right? I mean, there are many people who have come out, including the Democratic governor of Colorado, who have applauded Trump's pick of RFK Jr. There are many people, people I've spoken to who are excited about his proposal when it comes to regulating chemicals in food, right, getting rid of toxins, getting -- taking on big pharma, as they call it, calling for fluoride to be removed from the nation's water supply. I mean, some of these proposals are appealing to a lot of people, vaccines aside, which obviously is causing a lot of consternation. Tell us about that.

GUPTA: Yes, so, I mean, there -- there is -- is part of the issue here is that some of the things that RFK Jr. says, I think have a lot of support. I mean, you know, we've been reporting on the concerns about food for a quarter century, you know, it's part of why I started my career as a journalist, to report on these things. We -- we -- we know that as a country, we spend $4.5 trillion on healthcare, and yet we have some of the worst health outcomes in the developed world. And much of the chronic disease, 70 percent of the chronic disease, according to some studies, is preventable. And a lot of that prevention is probably dealing with how we nourish ourselves in some way. So, yes, there's a lot of concerns about our food supply. One -- one top level point though, you know, when it comes to things like fluoride, Pamela, is that when you -- when you look at these things, and we're going to all have to look at this pretty carefully over the next several months, is that the -- the amount of fluoride that -- that exists, if -- if it's at a high dose, it can be a neurotoxin. That is true. But that is why you have regulations to try and keep the fluoride at a -- at a level that is lower than that. The dose makes the poison.

Same sort of thing about Ivermectin, something else that RFK has talked about. Ivermectin in a test tube in -- in -- in collaboration with viruses can actually kill those viruses. The problem is to get that dose, the appropriate dose in the body to actually be antiviral would be toxic. So people will hear, hey, yes, Ivermectin works, it kills viruses. Yes, in a test tube. But you couldn't achieve those same doses in the human body without being toxic to the human body.

Now, I'm just giving you that high level sort of description because I think you got to apply that to many things that he talks about, whether it be fluoride or whether it be something like Ivermectin.

BROWN: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, so important to get your perspective on all of this. Thank you so much for helping us better understand.

GUPTA: You got it. Thank you.

BROWN: And we're also following some new details this morning about Donald Trump's pick for defense secretary. Officials in California have confirmed that Pete Hegseth was involved in a police investigation of a sexual assault allegation back in 2017. Steve Contorno joins us now to tell us more about this. What have you learned, Steve?

STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: Yes. Let me walk you through the statement that we received from the city -- city of Monterey, Pamela, because it has some very important details in here. This all occurred in October of 2017 in the city of Monterey at a Hyatt Regency where Pete Hegseth was speaking at -- to the California Federation of Republican Women. And according to this statement, he was not identified as an alleged assailant in the statement, but it did say that he was involved in the investigation.

The -- the -- it went on to say that no weapons were involved that evening. The names and ages of those who were involved were not disclosed. And the city said it would not be releasing the full report at this time. The -- there was an injury that was noted in this statement, a right thigh contusion. However, those are the details that we have learned at this point about this incident.

I should point out that the statement -- a statement that was recently released by the lawyer for Pete Hegseth said this. This statement confirms that although an allegation was made, it was fully investigated and no other charges were filed. Pamela?

BROWN: All right. And I mean, there is a question here, right, about the Trump team's awareness of the allegation, what their reaction is to this. Do we know anything more on that front?

[11:09:57]

CONTORNO: Well, we know that all of the people who were put forward by the former president and President-elect Donald Trump so far were given a 360 review by the campaign and the transition team before they were put forward. It is not clear at this time if this allegation came up during that review. But I can say that the campaign is aware of it and they have already put out a statement standing by Hegseth and saying that we look forward to his confirmation as United States secretary of defense so he can get started on day one to make America safe and great again. So we know that at least at this point, they are standing by him and they intend to see through this nomination.

We will have to wait and see what the reaction is, though, from those senators on the Hill that will ultimately decide on his nomination and whether he can get the 51 votes he needs to assume the role.

BROWN: Steve Contorno, thank you so much.

And still ahead this hour, the Laken Riley murder case. It became a lightning rod in the immigration debate and now the migrant accused of killing her is on trial. The voice heard on the nursing students desperate 911 call. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:15:49]

BROWN: Right now in Georgia, the trial is underway for the man accused of murdering Laken Riley. Her death earlier this year ignited a political firestorm over immigration and thrust the case into the national spotlight. Right now, Sergeant Kenneth Maxwell, seen here, who found Riley's body, is on the stand. Let's listen.

SGT. KENNETH MAXWELL, UNIVERSITY OF GEORGIA POLICE DEPT.: We also use things like Google Maps as well to kind of see the actual layouts of the individual trails.

SHEILA ROSS, PROSECUTOR: May I approach the witness, your honor?

MAXWELL: Yes.

ROSS: Admitting what's already been admitted into evidence the States Exhibit 5. Do you recognize that?

MAXWELL: Yes.

JUDGE H. PATRICK HAGGARD, SUPERIOR COURT: What is it?

MAXWELL: So this is the large retention pond that's towards the backside of where one of the trails are that back up to the backside of the Rogers Road University Village Housing.

ROSS: And -- and using States Exhibit 5, could you show the court in which way you entered the intramural fields and -- and the trails.

MAXWELL: Roughly, so the direction --

ROSS: Well, yes, do it that way because we've already toggled over. If you can show the court --

MAXWELL: Yes.

ROSS: -- and discuss the court.

MAXWELL: Roughly, I would have entered from this upper area side of the trail.

ROSS: Let -- let's do that. Sorry.

MAXWELL: There's a bridge that connects over Lake Herrick and I would have entered in from this side and then Corporal Bridges came down this trail here which hooked up from the actual road on the back side. So I had him coming from this side. I was coming from the other side so that we could meet in the middle.

ROSS: Once you entered the fields, how long did you have to search the fields?

MAXWELL: I think I searched for approximately 21-ish minutes.

ROSS: And what were you looking for?

MAXWELL: Pretty much anything that would give us an idea. One, if she was indeed missing or sometimes individuals may just get hurt. I think while I was also in route, I had asked them to check, dispatch to check hospitals and things like that because sometimes people get hurt out there. So pretty much any signs that she may have been out there or anybody was out there just kind of acting weird. I think I also had to screenshot a picture maybe from social media to send to my e-mail. So I had a rough idea of what she looked like because there's also times where we just have people who just were like, oh, I just come out here and unplug myself and I don't want to talk to anybody. So at that point, we still didn't really know what we were dealing with.

ROSS: May I approach the witness, your honor?

HAGGARD: Yes.

ROSS: Tell me what's been marked for identification purposes at States Exhibit 15? Do you recognize States 15?

MAXWELL: Yes.

ROSS: What is it?

MAXWELL: I believe this should be some of my Axon footage from the day. ROSS: When you were searching for Laken Riley, were you wearing your department issued body cam, Axon body cam?

MAXWELL: Yes, I was.

ROSS: And did it record your actions that day?

MAXWELL: It did. I turn my camera on as I entered the bridge to over into the trails.

ROSS: And the States -- States Exhibit 15 contain a fair and accurate recording of your body cam footage on the 22nd day of February 2024.

MAXWELL: Yes.

ROSS: State would move to admit States Exhibit 15 and request permission to publish.

HAGGARD: OK, 15 submitted.

ROSS: And your honor, as of what we did for the hearings that we had on this case, State Exhibit 15 contains about two hours worth of body cam video, which the state does not intend on all two hours, but the other side is welcome to play whatever parts they want to play of the body cam video.

And again, when we are referring to States Exhibit 15 or any Axon body cam, we're going to be using the UTC timestamp in the top right corner of the screen for records purposes so that they will know what we're talking about, because there -- there are two different timestamps on these videos and we want to use the Axon timestamp.

So for the record, Sergeant Maxwell, I am publishing States 15. If you could tell us --

HAGGARD: I'm going to interrupt.

ROSS: Yes, sir.

HAGGARD: So I -- I -- I suspect what we're about to see is the victim's body there. I'm going to offer for anyone that's here to -- to step out if -- if -- if you want to do that. I'll pause and order and allow you to do that.

[11:20:06]

ROSS: May I have one moment, your honor?

HAGGARD: More difficult.

ROSS: Your honor, thank you for that opportunity. One -- a few people have left, but the others are insisting upon staying and I have cautioned them to refrain from any statements about it. One moment.

If you could, Sergeant Maxwell, using the top right hand of State's Exhibit 15, tell the court our date and time here. I'm going to make you do the UTC conversion.

MAXWELL: So it looks like at the top right, it's going to be February 22nd.

BROWN: All right, we're going to -- we're going to pull out right now and talk to our criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor Mark O'Mara. First of all, what is your reaction to what we just heard there from the officer who discovered Laken Riley's body?

MARK O'MARA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, obviously it's horrific that both he had to go through that and that's going to be presented to the judge, not a jury in this case. You know, difficult. And I -- I -- I liked the idea that the judge gave the audience, particularly the family members of the victim, of Ms. Riley, to leave the courtroom if need be. I know a couple of them stayed. It's just a very difficult time. And this is one of the most emotional moments of the trial.

BROWN: It -- it -- it just is. You just think about her family, her friends, it's just agonizing, horrible. This is now a bench trial, as noted after Ibarra waived his right to a jury trial. Did that surprise you and -- and could this impact the speed of this trial?

O'MARA: So very much so, in a number of different ways. There are those cases where you want to waive a jury trial, for example, and this may be on the -- on one of them, a child victim case. I had a case where my client was alleged to have planned a school shooting. You can't say that to a jury of six or 12 people because there's so much emotion tied to it. So in a case like this, the idea of avoiding the emotion by going to a judge only trial is understandable.

On the other hand, all of those rules, all of those issues that may arise in a jury trial, those appellate issues, like something wasn't done right or a piece of evidence should not have come in, all of that is pretty much waived when it's just the jury, meaning not only will the case be quicker, but his appellate remedies may be almost non- existent. So that's a very, very difficult call to waive a jury in a case like this.

BROWN: Yes. And I think we're actually going to go back and watch a little bit more of the trial. We know one of the family members left before they showed the body, the body cam.

ROSS: -- in the intramural fields? Let's go to that area.

MAXWELL: Yes. It looks like it's going to be back further on. One of the larger trails that circles from the back on the -- the picture from earlier would have been the main trail that circled from the redcoat practice band directly back from Lake Erie Drive.

ROSS: Can you see that trail in States Exhibit 5?

MAXWELL: I believe so. Let's see.

ROSS: Can you show the court on States Exhibit 5 where you are now?

MAXWELL: Yes. So it should be right around here, near the bend of this trail.

ROSS: All right. Is that you looking at your phone again?

MAXWELL: Yes.

Hey, can you all just stop calling for now?

ROSS: Who are you talking to at 12:29?

MAXWELL: I was speaking to my dispatch, when I first stepped into the woodline, I asked him to begin calling her cell phone so I could hear some kind of an audio alert to where her phone may be. I didn't hear anything, so I told him to go ahead and turn it off to try to preserve battery.

ROSS: I want to stop right here at 12:29. Can you see the running trail from where you're at?

MAXWELL: Yes.

ROSS: Go back to element so we can get oriented. Show us where it is from this.

MAXWELL: Hey, can you all just stop calling?

ROSS: OK. Do you see it?

MAXWELL: Yes. So it's going to go on my right hand side. I'm kind of walking parallel to it in the woodline right now.

[11:25:01]

ROSS: And can you just point to it on the screen?

MAXWELL: Yes.

ROSS: All right. At the top right hand corner almost where the timestamp is?

MAXWELL: Correct.

Up or down? I'm currently in A5 is where the phone last pinged.

ROSS: So approximately how long did it take you to -- to find her?

MAXWELL: From the original call, it would be about 21 minutes from this area. Once I was on the field, looks like it would have been closer to about seven or eight minutes.

ROSS: How would you describe that vegetation?

MAXWELL: It's not really super thick necessarily, but there are a lot of vines and thorn bushes and things like that kind of interweave. Not super difficult to walk through, but it was catching my uniform every now and then.

ROSS: And how would you describe the lighting out there?

MAXWELL: The lighting was -- was pretty decent. The sun was up. I'm not sure if it was completely cloudless, but not overcast.

ROSS: I am going to fast forward on States Exhibit 15 to 12:34. Do you see that in the right hand corner? And do we -- do you see the running trail on States Exhibit 15 at this point?

MAXWELL: Yes.

ROSS: Is that what you're facing?

MAXWELL: Yes, it is.

ROSS: OK.

MAXWELL: All right, so it's more this way. Look at that. It's close. A little bit through the end. It's more on that thing.

[11:29:32]

BROWN: We're going to continue monitoring this. Right now we're listening to the body cam video from the officer who found Laken Riley's body. You can hear him shuffling through the leaves before he -- he finds her body there. So again, we're going to continue to monitor this and we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)