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Biden Admin Allows U.S.-made Long Range Weapons for Ukraine; Philippines Recovers from Super Typhoon Man-yi; World Leaders Arrive in Rio de Janeiro for G20 Summit; Toxic Smog Affects New Delhi's Air Quality. Aired 3-4a ET

Aired November 18, 2024 - 03:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[03:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us here in the United States and all around the world. You're watching "CNN Newsroom" and I'm Rosemary Church.

Just ahead. The Biden administration will allow Ukraine to use U.S.- made long-range weapons to hit targets inside Russia. But there's concern, the policy change hasn't come fast enough.

U.S. President-elect Donald Trump makes more picks for top jobs as doubts grow that some of his choices can be confirmed in the Senate.

And an air leak on board the International Space Station has NASA worried about a possible catastrophic failure.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Live from Atlanta, this is "CNN Newsroom" with Rosemary Church.

CHURCH: Good to have you with us. Well, we are tracking a major change in U.S. policy at a critical time in Russia's war on Ukraine. President Joe Biden, for the first time, is allowing Kyiv to use long- range U.S. weapons to strike deeper inside Russia.

The decision had been under consideration for months as Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy pressed Washington for the green light, but U.S. officials have been divided and concerned it could escalate the conflict.

The weapons are expected to be used primarily in Russia's Kursk region for now. That's where Russian forces are looking to take back territory alongside North Korean troops who've joined the Russian offensive.

CNN's Nada Bashir is following developments and joins me now live from London. Good morning to you Nada. So what is the latest reaction to this major U.S. policy change?

NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it certainly is a significant policy change, Rosemary. As you mentioned, there has been a lot of debate within the Biden administration as to whether this is indeed the right move, questions as to whether this could escalate the war further and of course concern around the low stockpile supplies. Of course, because of that, we're not expecting to see an immediate overnight shift in the battlefield.

But of course, as you mentioned, this comes as we see tens of thousands of Russian troops amassing in the Kursk region, as well as North Korean troops now being deployed, which has been a real spark of concern for the Biden administration, concern that this could be perhaps a new phase to the war, seeing North Korean troops deployed.

But these attack and long-range missiles are expected and intended to be used according to sources primarily focused on that Kursk region. There is concern that we are perhaps seeing Russian troops preparing in an attempt to take back territory following a Kyiv surprise offensive in the summer in an attempt to stop Kursk from being used as a sort of bargaining chip in any future peace talks or negotiations.

That is something that the U.S. and the Biden administration does not want to see in the future. But of course, again, there is still concern within the Biden administration between U.S. officials around this. This won't be an overnight shift.

And we've been hearing from the Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, who of course himself has been pushing for these weapons to be supplied to Ukraine for some time now. We heard from him just yesterday calling on the U.S. to make good on its commitment.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Today there's a lot of talk in the media about us receiving permission for respective actions. But strikes are not carried out with words. Such things are not announced. Missiles will speak for themselves. They certainly will.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASHIR: According to sources and officials, President Zelenskyy provided U.S. President Joe Biden in September when they met at the White House with a detailed list of the targets that Ukraine hopes to focus on if supplied with these weapons.

Clearly, the Biden administration has taken the decision that now is the right time that this is the right decision over the course of the war, but there still remains concern as to how we may see Moscow respond to this.

We've previously heard from President Putin warning against any nuclear power supporting Ukraine with long-range missiles. What sort of response do we expect to see from the Kremlin remains to be seen? And again, unclear exactly when we will see these weapons being deployed. CHURCH: All right. Our thanks to Nada Bashir bringing us that live

report from London.

Jill Dougherty is an adjunct professor at Georgetown University and a former CNN Moscow bureau chief. She joins me now from Washington. Good to have you with us.

JILL DOUGHERTY, ADJUNCT PROF., GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY AND FORMER CNN MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF: Hey Rosemary.

[03:04:59]

CHURCH: So, U.S. President Joe Biden made a major policy change Sunday by approving Ukraine's use of powerful long-range U.S. weapons inside Russia. How significant is this decision and what impact might it have on the battlefield, do you think?

DOUGHERTY: It's extremely significant. After all, that the administration has never allowed this; they actually have allowed these long-range missiles to be used within Ukraine to fight Russians, but they've never allowed the Ukrainians to use them to strike inside Russia.

And that is what apparently now will be happening. Now, will it change the war? I mean everybody who is an expert in -- the military expert is saying probably not.

There are some questions, you know, especially about how many weapons there actually are that Ukraine could use. They are very expensive. It takes quite a while to produce them.

Ukraine only apparently has a few. Actually, even the United States, some here in the United States, say that the United States could be limited in the amount that it could provide. So there are questions, but it is no issue here that this is a major decision by Biden, and it comes at a critical time.

I mean, you have a new incoming U.S. president, you have Putin warning that a step like this would -- there would be retaliation for a step like this. So it's really, it's quite a dramatic time in this war.

CHURCH: Yeah, and I do want to talk about the timing in just a moment, but President Vladimir Putin, He did make it very clear three weeks ago, and you alluded to this, that if Ukraine ever uses U.S. long- range weapons to hit inside Russia's territory, that action would amount to an attack from NATO or the U.S. directly on Russia and would represent a major escalation. What could this mean in terms of Russia's previous threats to use nuclear weapons?

DOUGHERTY: Well, that is the calculus. That's what's been keeping, I think, the Biden administration from taking this step, because Putin has made it very clear. This is a red line, he says for him.

And yet there have been other lines that have been crossed, you know, this kind of incremental policy by Biden saying that Ukraine can't use certain weapons and then later saying that they can. And at each moment of, you know, incremental movement, excuse me, they

have, you know, Putin has not used nuclear weapons and has not, even though he's, of course, threatened, but he hasn't really taken the steps that the United States was worried about that he might take.

So I think the feeling is it's not going to happen, and this is important for the United States to do for Ukraine at this particular moment.

CHURCH: Yeah, and all this, of course, comes, as you pointed out, as President-elect Donald Trump prepares to take office in January, with plans to end this war, he says he can, through likely territorial concessions on the part of Ukraine.

What is your reaction to the timing of this decision by President Biden just two months before a new administration comes in making all of these promises?

DOUGHERTY: Yeah, that really is a question. If you look at what the Trump people are saying right now, at least some of them close to Trump are saying, this is war-mongering, it's creating problems for the incoming administration. And I actually looked at some Russian media, and they're saying much the same, that this is an attempt to damage or make it very difficult for incoming President Trump.

Now, I think that's a very good question. Ultimately, there are others, though, even Republicans, who are saying this step was long overdue, that the Ukrainians have been fighting essentially with their arm tied behind their backs. And so that's the debate right now.

But there's no question that with just two months to go, it does leave Trump with probably an escalated war. And we don't know whether, you know, exactly what Trump will do, but up until now he's been saying he wants that obviously to stop. So we have again a dramatic moment actually two months from now as well.

CHURCH: Jill Dougherty, we appreciate you joining us and sharing your analysis. Thank you.

CHURCH: U.S. President Joe Biden is looking to make the fight against climate change a key part of his legacy. During an historic first presidential visit to the Amazon, Mr. Biden urged the incoming administration to continue to embrace the economic progress offered by a clean energy revolution.

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He didn't directly name President-elect Donald Trump, who has questioned whether climate change exists and vowed to reverse Mr. Biden's policies on gas and oil exploration. But President Biden delivered a clear message after an aerial tour of the Amazon rainforest.

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JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: It's no secret that I'm leaving office in January. I will have my, I will leave my successor and my country and a strong foundation to build on if they choose to do so. It's true, some may seek to deny or delay the clean energy revolution that's underway in America. But nobody. Nobody can reverse it. Nobody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Here in the United States, the President-elect Donald Trump continues to name the people he wants in top positions for his second term in office. Late Sunday, he announced current Federal Communications Commissioner Brendan Carr is his choice to become the agency's new chairman. Notably, the group's job is to regulate communications amid more than a dozen calls from Trump to revoke licenses from major television networks.

But the controversial selection that has much of Washington talking is still the choice of former House Republican Matt Gaetz for attorney general.

CNN Steve Contorno has the latest.

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STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: Donald Trump enters his second full week as president-elect with questions still remaining about some of the early picks for his incoming administration, especially around Matt Gaetz, his choice for attorney general. There are questions as to whether or not senators will get to see the results of an ethics investigation into alleged sexual misconduct.

Speaker Mike Johnson on "State of the Union" on Sunday discussing his views on whether or not senators should be able to see that report.

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: President and I have literally not discussed one word about the ethics report, not once. And I've been with him quite a bit this week between Washington and Mar-a-Lago and last night in Madison Square Garden.

CONTORNO: Even as Republicans on the Hill speak out against Matt Gaetz and raise concerns over whether he can get the 51 votes needed for confirmation. There are already signs that some Republicans are moving toward yes.

Senator Markwayne Mullin, for example, of Oklahoma. He has previously voiced his displeasure with Gates. At one point, he said Gates showed him videos on the House floor of, quote, "the girls he had slept with. But now he says Gates should have a fair shot."

SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R-OK): I've got a tough situation that I've got to set my personal opinions, and they're really not opinions. I've got to set my personal situation with Matt to the side and look at the facts. If he's qualified, he's qualified.

CONTORNO: After spending some time in New York this weekend where he watched a UFC fight at Madison Square Garden, Donald Trump will remain in Palm Beach at his Mar-a-Lago estate as he continues to fill out his cabinet. He still has to choose a Treasury Secretary as well as Secretaries for Commerce, Labor, Housing and Urban Development, Transportation and Education.

Steve Contorno, CNN, West Palm Beach, Florida.

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CHURCH: California Senator-elect Adam Schiff tells CNN there is a bigger reason behind Matt Gaetz's selection. He suggests Trump is choosing unqualified individuals who value loyalty to the incoming president more than they do the duties of the office.

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SEN. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): I think he's not only unqualified, he is really disqualified. Are we really going to have an attorney general who there's credible allegations he was involved in child sex trafficking, potential illicit drug use, obstruction of investigation, who has no experience serving in the Justice Department, only being investigated by it.

But Jake, I think the whole point with these nominees, several of them, is their unqualification, is their affirmative disqualification. That's Trump's point.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Larry Sabato is the director of the University of Virginia's Center for Politics. He joins me now from Charlottesville. Always appreciate talking with you.

LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA-CENTER FOR POLITICS: I always enjoy it, Rosemary.

CHURCH: So let's start with the growing scrutiny over some of the controversial cabinet picks made by President-elect Donald Trump in recent days, including Matt Gaetz, Tulsi Gabbard, Pete Hegseth and Robert Kennedy Jr. How many of these picks would you expect to get confirmed? And how big a stress test could this prove to be for Senate Republicans?

SABATO: The most important number is 53, not 53 cabinet officers, but 53 Republicans in the Senate, and the Senate does the confirming.

Now, some have talked about recess appointments, but tonight, if the reports are accurate, Mitch McConnell, who is the now ex-Senate majority leader but still has enormous influence on the Republicans in the Senate, has sent a message to President Trump saying there will be no recess appointments.

[03:15:02]

Now, I don't know whether he can carry that out no longer being Senate Majority Leader. But if you can't appoint some of these people in the recess provision, it's going to be very difficult to get a majority of Republicans to vote in favor of them, because there are three, four, maybe even five Republicans who are in states that are competitive enough.

So that it's a real danger for these senators to vote for candidates that are very controversial. And this is a record number, record number of controversial appointments to any president's cabinet.

CHURCH: And Larry, right now Donald Trump is determined to see Matt Gaetz confirmed as his attorney general despite some Republicans calling Gaetz's behavior abhorrent. House Speaker Mike Johnson is strongly advising against releasing the ethics report on Gates. So how likely is it that we will ever see that report?

SABATO: I don't know if we'll see it, but I have a hard time believing that the Republicans in the Senate won't see it. I think it will be leaked one way or the other. They'll work out something like they do with intelligence reports, where you have to go into a room and you can't take any photographic material, and you can read the report and then you leave. Maybe something like that.

But there's no way the Republicans in the Senate are going to forgo reading that. And the Democrats want to read it too, but of course they will be inevitably outraged, maybe they should be, by whatever's in there. The Republicans want it to protect themselves.

CHURCH: And many critics view some of these Trump cabinet picks as a threat to the United States, particularly as the Trump team is now suggesting that some of these selections will not receive FBI background checks, Gates and Tulsi Gabbard among them.

Now Gabbard would be working with this country's top secret. So if she and the others are confirmed, what damage could they potentially cause to this country?

SABATO: Well, it's a big question mark, and people ought to be concerned, because Gabbard is potentially a threat on the intelligence side. Robert Kennedy is a potential threat on the domestic health side. And then the others, well, Matt Gaetz would be a threat in terms of justice, I suppose. And we could go right down the line.

Now, there are some establishment favorites. Marco Rubio will have no trouble at all getting confirmed as secretary of state. And there are a few others like that, the governor of North Dakota is going to be confirmed as Interior Secretary.

But you have a concentration of controversial people. And I almost think that Trump has done that because there's safety in numbers, and he's appointing enough very controversial nominees, knowing that Republicans can't possibly turn them all down. They really can't, because the Trump base would revolt against them. So in a sense, there's some protection for all of these people because of the number of controversial candidates.

CHURCH; And Donald Trump is now apparently considering appointing loyalist Kash Patel to the position of FBI director. How dangerous might this be given the many threats Patel has made against those he claims Trump's enemies? SABATO: This whole emphasis on revenge and retribution, it turns out,

was not just campaign rhetoric. That is precisely what Donald Trump is pursuing, even before he reenters the Oval Office. And it's something, frankly, that Americans, if they are as understanding of and supportive of constitutional rights as I think they are for the accused, including generals who may be coming up before some strange tribunal, it's going to turn into a major fiasco for Trump in those first few months.

And that's not what a new president needs. Even though Trump has been president, he wants this new term to be different than the first term, because in the first term, he didn't have the support even in his own cabinet to get a great deal of what he wanted done, done.

CHURCH: And it is worth mentioning that Donald Trump is making some of his cabinet selections without much discussion with the rest of his team. And he still has some critical picks to make, Treasury being one of them.

So how worrying is it that Trump appears not to be discussing these choices with those people around him that may be able to guide him in a better direction?

SABATO: Well, good luck with that. I think the first term there was a chance of it, because there were some establishment figures in the White House, from chief of staff to defense secretary, secretary of state, and so on. But that has faded.

[03:19:58]

And, of course, Trump has fallen back on what he truly believes, that he's a genius, that he's the only one who can make these decisions, and he makes them best of all, and everybody else is interfering in what he knows must be done. And only he can do it.

So that's the scene for the second term. It is of a concern because people are worried about his tendency, Trump's tendency toward authoritarianism. We can already see it. And revenge and retribution only underlines the potential for authoritarianism.

CHURCH: Larry Sabato, always a pleasure to chat with you. Many thanks for joining us.

SABATO: Always enjoyed it. Thank you, thank you very much.

CHURCH: Still to come, Israel launches two deadly attacks on Lebanon's capital in one day, killing Hezbollah's chief of media relations.

And Israel continues to bombard northern Gaza, reportedly killing dozens of Palestinians in new strikes on Sunday. Back with that in just a moment.

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CHURCH: Israeli forces have killed Hezbollah's spokesperson in a strike on Beirut. Mohammed Afif served as an adviser to the late Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah for years. The militant group issued a statement calling Hafif a, quote, "great media leader."

[03:25:08]

The strike on Sunday was followed by another deadly attack on the Lebanese capital hours later. The country's health ministry says at least two people were killed and more than a dozen others wounded.

Meanwhile, Gaza's health ministry says at least 50 people were killed in Israeli strikes in northern Gaza on Sunday. Video of the aftermath shows children panicking with some crying in the background and a toddler covered in blood.

A local journalist says dozens of Palestinians displaced by Israel's operation in nearby Jabalia were sheltering in two of the houses that were hit.

CNN's Paula Hancocks is following these developments from Abu Dhabi. She joins us now. So Paula, what is the latest on the impact of these Israeli strides on Beirut coming as a ceasefire is being considered?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rosemary, we're seeing what appears to be an extension and expansion of Israeli military operations inside Lebanon. We heard just last week from the Foreign Minister of Israel that the ground operation was going to be expanding, and that's certainly what we are seeing.

We have heard as well that the Israeli military on Sunday said that they're now using artillery batteries based inside Lebanon itself. So these previously had been stationed on Israeli territory. They were being fired across the border into southern Lebanon. But now we know that according to the IDF, they have moved these batteries into the Lebanese territory itself.

Now, we had heard early last month when Israel decided it was going to carry out this ground operation, that it would be limited. Now, there was plenty of skepticism at the time that this was going to be a limited operation.

And indeed we are seeing that it is anything but with the Israeli military saying they're expanding even more, saying they're attacking targets in support of ground forces during their operations.

Now, it's coming, this expansion in military operations, at a time when there is a ceasefire proposal on the table. We know that it has been given to Hezbollah. It's a U.S.-Israeli ceasefire proposal. And we understand from a Lebanese official that they believe Hezbollah is looking at it positively, or at least they are optimistic that there could be some kind of an agreement. We don't have an exact timeline on when that could come.

But this would be a 60-day ceasefire. It would be a temporary one, but with the hope that this would be the basis for the permanent ceasefire. It would involve the U.N. Resolution 1701, which ended the last hostilities between Israel and Hezbollah back in 2006. It means Hezbollah has to move from southern Lebanon. It potentially means the Lebanese military could take more of an

active role in that area. We're not certain of that at this point that could be a sticking point and Israel has to pull out of southern Lebanon and move to the border itself.

Of course, one of the complicating factors could be that assassination of Hezbollah's media spokesperson on Sunday. Mohammed Afif was one of really the last public faces of Hezbollah as he was doing press conferences still in the ruins of some of the buildings in southern Beirut. Many other Hezbollah personnel have gone underground knowing that they could be a target.

At the end of September, the ceasefire proposal talks were ongoing. They were very much derailed at the time by the assassination of Hassan Nasrallah, the Hezbollah chief. We don't know at this point whether this will have an impact on the current negotiations. Rosemary?

CHURCH: All right. Paula Hancocks in Abu Dhabi, many thanks for that live report.

The Philippines is now recovering from its unprecedented fourth typhoon in less than two weeks. Super typhoon Man-yi swept through the main island of Luzon on Sunday, home to more than half the country's population. More than a million people were ordered to evacuate ahead of the storm, which damaged buildings in several areas.

World leaders are in Rio de Janeiro for a meeting of the G20 group of nations, with uncertainty looming in the face of a new US administration.

Plus, toxic smoke is strangling India's capital. Well, look at the measures the government is now taking to deal with the hazardous air quality. Back with that and more in just a moment.

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ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: World leaders are in Rio de Janeiro for the G20 summit. Heads of state plan to address issues from poverty and hunger to reforming global institutions as well as climate change. This is U.S. President Joe Biden's final appearance at the meeting and there's speculation about how the Trump administration will handle international issues.

For more, we want to go live now to Marc Stewart, who joins us from Beijing. So Marc, how is Beijing approaching this G20 summit, especially given Donald Trump does loom large over it, doesn't he, creating a lot of global uncertainty?

MARC STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Rosemary, good morning. China certainly is aware of the potential for a change in the political landscape, especially with the incoming Trump administration. So it will likely use this G20 event to its advantage to have meetings with other world leaders to perhaps portray China as a source of stability among all of this change that's happening in the United States.

Of course, the G20 is a very well organized event. But these private meetings with Xi Jinping and Chinese diplomats, both on the sidelines and one on one, are perhaps a very golden opportunity for China.

You know, we heard from one observer from a think tank who said it's perhaps important for China to portray ideas of peace and development as it tries to court new supporters around the world, very much part of this broader theme of trying to put a wedge between the United States and its allies at this time of transition.

China is the world's second largest economy. It is not afraid to branch out beyond its borders. We just saw that last week. While in Peru, Xi Jinping was part of the grand opening of this port in Peru, of which China invested $1.3 billion, a way for China to show that it has global political and economic strength.

[03:35:03]

Rosemary, besides the leaders of China and the United States, expect to see the prime ministers of Australia, India, as well as the U.K., all part of the G20, beginning later this week in Rio.

CHURCH: Alright. Our thanks to Marc Stewart, bringing us that live report from Beijing. I appreciate it.

U.S. health officials are investigating an E. coli outbreak linked to organic carrots. At least 39 cases have been reported across 18 states since early September and one person has died. The outbreak has been linked to Grimmway Farms, a carrot producer in California, which announced a recall over the weekend.

It says the carrots are likely no longer in stores, but may still be in people's homes. It's urging people to throw them out or return them to the store and to clean any surfaces the carrots have touched.

Well water in Asheville, North Carolina may soon be safe to drink again. Seven weeks after Tropical Storm Helene damaged the city's water system, residents have been living under a boil water notice which could be lifted as soon as Tuesday.

The city's water resources department says there's a sampling process that must be completed first. Helene delivered a once-in-a-thousand- year rainfall event to western North Carolina in late September.

Officials in India's capital are taking new measures to deal with a thick layer of toxic smog. The hazardous air quality in New Delhi has many residents wearing masks and all primary schools are switching to online classes.

So let's go live now to CNN's Hanako Montgomery who is joining us live from Tokyo. Good to see you Hanako. So what is the latest on this and what new measures are being used to deal with this toxic smog? HANAKO MONTGOMERY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi Rosemary, it's good to see

you. So since Sunday night, the air quality in Delhi has worsened. It's now in the severe plus category and the government has responded by banning all trucks from entering the city unless they're delivering essential items.

Also, all in-person classes for students have been suspended and now we're seeing some flights now even being diverted from the city because the flight visibility is just that low. Of course, these measures are in addition to the ones already put in place since last week, for instance banning some types of construction work.

But despite these solutions Rosemary, there isn't that much relief for the 20 million residents in Delhi. Here's what some had to say about what it feels like to be there right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RANI CHANDRA, DENTAL ASSISTANT (through translator): Because of the pollution, my eyes are burning. It's like chilly in my eyes.

DHRITI BHUSHAL, COLLEGE STUDENT (through translator): Traveling has become tough. The metros, buses are all delayed. And because of the pollution, us common people are having a lot of difficulty breathing, especially small children and elderly people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MONTGOMERY: But Rosemary, even though it feels pretty unbearable to be in Delhi right now, it's actually not unprecedented to see this toxic smog just shroud the city. In fact, each time, every single year around this time, we see this smog just shroud the city for really three key reasons.

The first because farmers are burning their crops, they're burning their fields to prepare for next year's harvest. And second, because we're seeing dust also from construction and from roads, and also, very importantly, emissions from vehicles contribute to air pollution. And third, as winter settles into India, the cold actually acts as a blanket and traps some of those air pollutants.

So for those key three reasons, Rosemary, we're seeing this toxic smog choke Delhi year after year. Authorities are also implementing some measures, like for instance, sprinkling water on roads and using dust suppressants.

But unfortunately, these are pretty quick fixes to a much larger and unfortunately chronic problem for India. Rosemary.

CHURCH: Hanako Montgomery, joining us live from Tokyo. Many thanks for that. I Appreciate it.

Well there is an air leak aboard the International Space Station but the U.S. and Russia disagree on just how dire the situation is. We'll have more on that after the break.

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CHURCH: Welcome back everyone.

The U.S. and Russia are at odds over what NASA deems to be the most pressing issue facing the International Space Station. The problem, a Russian-controlled part of the station, is leaking air needed by astronauts to breathe.

While Americans worry over a quote "catastrophic failure," Moscow feels the situation is not as dire. The Russian crew has reduced the leak rate and feels operations are safe. But NASA disagrees and is pushing for independent experts to evaluate the problem.

CNN aerospace analyst Miles O'Brien joins us now, good to see you Miles. So just how dire is this leaking air? And a part of the International Space Station, as we mentioned, controlled by Russia. And what are they doing to fix this problem?

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AEROSPACE ANALYST: Well, it depends on who you ask, Rosemary. NASA has come to the conclusion that this leak, which first materialized in 2019 and has steadily gotten worse, although it's been mitigated somewhat recently, as you alluded to, that this leak is potentially catastrophic. Now, NASA cannot prove that.

On the other side of it, Roscosmos, the Russian space agency, says nothing to worry about. It's not that serious. But Roscosmos can't prove that either. And so the two agencies are at odds over this. This is an engineering duel in the context of a geopolitical tension, which has risen, of course, since the invasion of Ukraine.

So it's testing a relationship which has survived against all odds so far in the latter days now of the International Space Station.

CHURCH: And why has it been so difficult to pinpoint the actual source of this leak? Won't that be critical if they want to try and really get to the bottom of this and fix the problem?

O'BRIEN: Yeah, you would think they could just plug whatever leak there is, but to call it a needle in a haystack is probably being not strong enough. This station now is 109 meters in length. It's got the volume of a pretty big house.

And many of the diagnostic tools that you would use on Earth, availing yourself of things like, you know, one gravity, gravity like we have right now, don't work so well.

[03:44:58]

So you've got, you know, kilometers and kilometers of electrical wiring snaking through the facility, and the ability to track down a leak at that rate is very difficult. CHURCH: So what happens if the loss of air accelerates and they're

unable to find the source of this leak? What could that mean potentially for the long-term sustainability of the ISS and its aging infrastructure?

O'BRIEN: Yeah, aging to be sure. You know, this module, we should point out, Rosemary, was actually built in the mid-1980s. It was supposed to be the core of the successor to the Mir space station that Russia flew for many years in the 80s and 90s and then was converted to be used for the International Space Station. It's been on orbit for more than 24 years now. So it is aging to be sure.

And this is a big issue when you look at the station writ large. A lot of the modules are very old. They encounter a lot of stress as they go along. You can imagine bending a paperclip back and forth for 24 years. Eventually those stress points will come up.

So what they can do in the short term is shut the door to this part of the space station and maybe if it gets much worse maybe permanently and that's a disadvantage because it's a docking port and it limits the amount of spacecraft that can visit the space station which in turn limits the number of people.

So we are in the last five or six years of the space station but it could mean diminished utility of that station as time goes on here.

CHURCH: And you know earlier we talked about the difference between Russia's space agency and NASA having very different views on the severity of this leaking air. Is there any science-based in this difference or is it all geopolitical?

O'BRIEN: Well, I think at the bench level, Rosemary, it has remained, despite all of what has happened over the past few years, it has remained a pretty good partnership when you talk about cosmonauts versus astronauts and engineers versus engineers. They're still, in theory, speaking their languages, their respective languages.

But the tension is unavoidable and cannot be overlooked. It is definitely the elephant in the room, as it were. So it's pretty difficult when you've got human beings doing their best as engineers and technical people. There's still human beings with subjective views of things.

And so how that creeps into these decisions, it's really hard to quantify that. It requires an engineer, and that is not going to be something we're going to get a good answer to.

But I will say this, that as time goes on here, each side, after all, is putting their individuals, their crew people up there. And they do have their best interests at heart, we hope.

CHURCH: Does all of this threaten the viability of the International Space Station, do you think?

O'BRIEN: Absolutely, this is an aging structure. You know, as we say, this particular piece is pushing, you know, 40 years old, given when it was built and put in cold storage waiting for the International Space Station.

Many of the other key components of the space station were built in the same time or a little bit later. And it's, you know, it's been up there moving around at, you know, 28,000 kilometers per hour.

It looks like it's just floating up there, but there's a lot of stress on it as it moves through orbit and the decision to de-orbit it in 2031 is clearly a good one. The question is how much utility will the space station have for this remaining five or six years.

CHURCH: All right, our thanks to Miles O'Brien always for talking with us. I appreciate it.

Well still to come, removing limitations by literally reinventing the wheel, how one group of engineers hope to revolutionize personal mobility and beyond.

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[03:50:00]

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CHURCH: Welcome back everyone.

How would life change for someone confined to a wheelchair if those wheels could take them literally anywhere? A group of engineers at the Korea Institute of Machinery and Materials is making that dream a reality.

CNN's Kristie Lu Stout explains.

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KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This wheelchair can move like no others can. Engineers in South Korea have developed a shape-shifting morphing wheel, calling it the world's first.

The wheel can shift between rigid and soft areas, providing stability on both flat ground and rocky paths. And it may even allow users to climb stairs. All this without complex machinery or fancy sensors.

SONG SUNG-HYUK, PRINCIPAL RESEARCHER, KOREA INSTITUTE OF MACHINERY AND MATERIALS (through translator): Traditional wheels are designed to retain a rigid circular shape for stability on flat surfaces, which limits their ability to overcome obstacles. However, our wheel maintains its round form on flat ground and softens only when navigating obstacles.

LU STOUT (voice-over): The wheels can reach speeds of 30 kilometers or 18 miles per hour. The innovation behind these wheels is simple yet groundbreaking. The wheels' flexibility is inspired by the surface tensions found in liquid droplets, says the researcher.

SUNG-HYUK (through translator): When the force that pulls the outermost molecules of a liquid droplet inward increases, the droplet can maintain a stable circular shape. Similarly, our wheel is designed with a smart chain block on the outer edge. The greater the inward pull on this block, the more stably it maintains a round shape.

LU STOUT (voice-over): The wheel turns firm for stability when the wire spokes pull the block inward. When it's loosened, it softens, allowing the wheel to adapt to uneven surfaces. Researchers see big potential for the wheel from personal mobility to robots.

SUNG-HYUK (through translator): This modularized wheel can be attached to any mobile platform simply by replacing existing wheels. Once installed, the wheel provides variable stiffness adapting to each application.

LU STOUT (voice-over): Kristie Lu Stout, CNN, Hong Kong

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[03:55:08]

CHURCH: Fascinating, isn't it?

So the City of Light is using light to bring back the Jurassic period. Dinosaurs, birds, and giant sea creatures greeted visitors at this garden in Paris over the weekend. France's National Museum of Natural History developed the display, especially for the fall and winter months, which have more hours of darkness. The light show will run until January next year.

Well thousands of people filled the streets of Cuba's capital for Havana's annual marathon. Approximately 2,300 runners from 46 countries participated. They had the option to run a 10k or a half marathon instead. This year's event was the 38th edition of the Caribbean Islands' premier running event and it came as Havana celebrates 505 years since the city was founded in 1519.

And finally, a gold watch gifted to the captain of a ship that rescued hundreds of people from the Titanic has sold for a record-breaking price. Captain Arthur Rostron's 18-karat Tiffany pocket watch sold for $1.97 million on Saturday. That is a record for a Titanic-related object sold at auction.

In 1912, Rostron ordered his ship, the RMS Carpathia, to change course after hearing distress calls from the sinking ship, the Carpathia rescued 700 people. Three survivors, whose husbands died on the Titanic, gifted the watch to Rostra.

I want to thank you so much for your company. I'm Rosemary Church. Have yourselves a wonderful day. There's more "CNN Newsroom" just ahead with Max Foster and Christina Macfarlane in London.

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