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Biden Allows Ukraine to Use Long-Range Weapons in Russia; Interview With Oklahoma Superintendent of Public Instruction Ryan Walters. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired November 18, 2024 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:31:33]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: As part of his plan to overhaul the federal government, president-elect Trump has repeatedly vowed to abolish the Department of Education.

That call has been echoed by Oklahoma's top educator, State Superintendent of Public Instruction Ryan Walters. He is calling for Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy to close the department on -- quote -- "day one." And in the wake of Trump's win, he announced the creation of a new Department of Religious Freedom and Patriotism in the state.

Here's some of that announcement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RYAN WALTERS, OKLAHOMA SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION: For too long in this country, we have seen the radical left attack individuals' religious liberty in our schools.

We have also seen patriotism mocked and a hatred for this country pushed by woke teachers unions. We will not tolerate that in any school in Oklahoma.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Walters is requiring that all public schools in the state show students that video, which includes him leading a prayer, for president-elect Trump. It's a mandate that several districts have already said they are disregarding.

And that pushback comes as Walters is already facing two lawsuits stemming from his earlier mandate that schools incorporate the Bible into lesson plans in grades five through 12. Last week, he also announced the purchase of 500 Bibles, which appear to be the Trump- endorsed God Bless the USA version, for use in classrooms across the state.

Ryan Walters is joining us now.

I really appreciate you coming on to have this important discussion.

As you know, your state's attorney general's office says you don't have the authority for this mandate to play that prayer video. So, what authority do you have to mandate schools to show your prayer video, where you also pray for president-elect Trump?

WALTERS: Look, I have continued to hear the gaslighting from the left, frankly, even from this network, pushing lies about what's going on across America.

President Trump has a clear mandate. He wants prayer back in school. He wants radical leftism out of the classroom, wants our kids to be patriotic, want parents back in charge with school choice.

We're enacting upon that agenda here in Oklahoma. That's what our parents want. Every county in Oklahoma voted for President Trump. His agenda is crystal clear, and we're going to enact it in the state of Oklahoma.

BROWN: I'm not going to take the bait on what you said about gaslighting from this network on this.

I'm asking you a specific question. Where is your authority specifically coming from? As you know, thousands of people, including parents who signed a petition to impeach you, with more than 14,000 signatures at last check, say this is government overreach and you're taking control away from local parents -- local school boards and parents over their kids.

What do you say to that? And where is your authority coming from to enforce this prayer video to be played in schools?

WALTERS: You know, I appreciate you pushing that left-wing narrative here, but here's the reality. The Constitution...

BROWN: It's not a left-wing narrative. I'm literally talking about a petition that parents have signed that's gotten more than 14,000 signatures that have raised this issue.

(CROSSTALK)

WALTERS: I think the Constitution's pretty clear on religious liberty. The Constitution's crystal clear on religious liberty.

I know the left doesn't want our kids to know anything about the role the Bible played in American history. They don't want any of our kids to know about the Constitution. Our religious liberties are protected. And the left has driven the Bible out of schools, driven prayer out of schools, and everything in education has gotten worse since.

Before we had a federal Department of Education and we had the Bible and prayer in school, guess what? We were leading the free world. This was the greatest country in the world. And we have seen every statistic gotten -- has gotten worse since the creation of the federal Department of Education and the Supreme Court pulled the Bible and prayer out of schools.

President Trump has won on this issue. He has a crystal clear mandate. It's one Americans want. It's what Oklahomans want. And so we're going to deliver on those -- on President Trump's promises here in Oklahoma.

[11:35:03]

BROWN: All right, first of all, the Constitution is not crystal clear on that. It doesn't have God in it. There is this Establishment Clause in the First Amendment, which the Supreme Court has routinely said it requires the separation of church and state and public schools.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: There are many cases that there are -- hold on. I'm speaking.

There are many cases where the Supreme Court has routinely ruled on that. You went after woke teachers and the radical left in your announcement for attacking religious liberty, but your critics are saying that by requiring Bibles in every classroom and requiring this prayer video, you're trying to impose your religion on students, in violation of the Establishment Clause.

They say the Constitution, scholars say the Constitution is crystal clear on freedom of religion, not enforcing one religion, your religion, on students.

What do you say?

WALTERS: Look, CNN doesn't have to like it. Left-wing activists don't have to like it.

BROWN: I'm just talking about facts. It's not my opinion.

(CROSSTALK)

WALTERS: It's a historical document. The Bible is a historical document. You can't rewrite history, OK?

The reality is, is the Bible was what drove so much of -- so many of the consequential events in American history. Why did the Pilgrims come to America? Why in the world did Abraham Lincoln mention God and God's providence in so many of his speeches? How do you explain Martin Luther King Jr.'s "Letter From a Birmingham Jail," where he goes through biblical examples if the left continues to censor the Bible from our history classes?

Listen, the left doesn't have to like it. They can be offended by it, but we have got to teach history to our young people to make this country great again. President Trump has a clear mandate. Our kids have to understand what made America great in the first place.

And, obviously, the Bible, the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence are indispensable in understanding the story of America.

BROWN: I'm not saying that the Bible isn't an important part of understanding this.

What I'm saying is, your critics, including a lot of parents, are saying you're trying to enforce your religion, your specific religion, Christianity, onto students, not just by requiring Bibles in every classroom, but also by requiring this prayer video as well, where you also pray for Donald Trump.

Just last week, this federal judge ruled it's unconstitutional for the Ten Commandments to be shown in a classroom. How is what you're trying to do different things?

WALTERS: Well, it's a radical federal judge way out of step with the American people and the Constitution.

Here's the reality. We have the right to express our religious beliefs. We absolutely do. That doesn't stop at a schoolhouse. But I was crystal clear in there. We're not telling kids they have to pray, but we are telling kids they have the right to pray if they so choose. That is what the free expression of your religious beliefs means.

And the left has driven that out of schools because of their hatred for Christianity and people of faith. President Trump has been clear. We're going to...

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: I don't think that's fair to say that they hate people of Christianity or people of faith, the critics who are -- and I'm specifically talking about those who have signed this impeachment form for you, those school districts who aren't showing this.

Their concern is that it's coercive and that, look, you're talking about how important the Bible is and U.S. history and the founding of the country. But this was a country that was not founded on a specific religion and that, if you are really -- if it's important to talk about religious texts and how it how it weaves into the history of the U.S., then why not also include the Koran? Why not also include the Book of Mormon?

Why not also include these other religious texts?

WALTERS: Well, let's talk about this for a second.

Everyone who signed that list, everybody suing me, they're the same people that want "Gender Queer" and "Flamer" in the classroom under the guise of...

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: That's not necessarily true. You are painting everyone with a broad brush. That...

WALTERS: I know the litigants in the case. The ACLU sued me on both, Southern Poverty Law Center.

The reality is, these people want radical gender pornography in the classroom, but they don't want the Bible.

BROWN: But they would say the Bible has pornography and incest and rape. So what do you say to that? WALTERS: So, you think the Bible -- you think the Bible is on the

same plane as "Gender Queer" and "Flamer"?

BROWN: I'm not saying that. That's not what I'm saying.

WALTERS: Ma'am, that's laughable. The Bible is the most read book in American history, and the left doesn't want our kids to know anything about it. They don't want the kids to understand that it played a huge role in American history.

That is academic malpractice. We have to get back to teaching American exceptionalism, American values, where those things came from. That's just history. And the left doesn't have to like...

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: But you're not answering my question about these other religious texts.

If that is your reason, if you are like, I want our students to learn about the founding of this country, and the Bible played a big role in that, then why not include other religious texts that also throughout history played a role, such as, as I pointed out, the Book of Mormon, such as the Koran?

WALTERS: Sure.

Look, in a world history class, you can absolutely talk about those. But let's be clear. In American history, the Bible played a unique role in shaping this history. And you said no religion. Thomas Jefferson said our rights came from God. And, again, look, maybe we all need to go back and study some of this, especially on CNN, to understand the role...

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Hold on.

Thomas Jefferson rejected part of Christian doctrine. Thomas Jefferson promoted freedom of religion. One of his top three accomplishments on his gravestone is promoting a law in Virginia for the freedom of religion.

[11:40:04]

So, if you want to -- and then John Adams -- would you say that John Adams is a key founder of the United States? Do you think he is?

WALTERS: Absolutely, talked about the -- yes.

BROWN: OK.

John Adams signed a treaty in 1797 saying the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.

Look, I'm not -- listen...

WALTERS: We've got -- we have got to get you in an Oklahoma history class, because the next line is that...

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Oh. Well, then let's talk about Oklahoma history, because Oklahoma is 48th in the country when it comes to education.

It's ranked 48th in the country. Your critics say the money that you're spending on the Bible, putting Bibles in every classroom, you have asked for $6 million, should be spent in other ways to better educate the students, because they're very worried about where Oklahoma is ranked in the education system.

What do you say to that?

WALTERS: We are in a middle of a turnaround here because we are following President Trump's agenda.

This is the agenda for the entire country. We have school choice. We have merit pay. We are rejecting this left-wing ideology in the classroom. We are promoting American exceptionalism. And, look, we are pressing students forward to see academic outcomes improved. We have seen record improvement. Record numbers of schools are improving here in Oklahoma.

That's what you're going to see for the whole country under President Trump. And, again, you continue to see critics, yes, they act like I'm controversial because I'm creating change in a status quo system that has failed kids and failed parents for decades. President Trump is absolutely...

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: OK. But they would say, well, then, if you're turning it around, the millions of dollars should be spent on other ways to educate the children.

But let me just ask you one last question. As I pointed out in this segment, the books you bought from what you raised in your Twitter handle, I just saw a link to that, was the Trump-endorsed Bible. That's $60 a pop. There are many Bibles available that are less than half of that. Why are you using the Trump-endorsed Bible? What do you say to critics who argue this is clear-cut political pandering right here?

WALTERS: What I would tell critics is, we're going to teach American history in Oklahoma. So that includes the Bible, the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and Bill of Rights. They are all included in this Bible that we have purchased.

The Bible will be back in every Oklahoma classroom. President Trump is...

BROWN: Why the Trump Bible, though? Why not a cheaper Bible, where you could save a lot of money and taxpayer dollars?

WALTERS: I just told you. All of those documents are in this Bible that we purchase for our kids, so that they could understand the full context of the founding documents.

So we have the Bible, the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights. These are all so important in our students' understanding what makes America the greatest country in the history of the world.

And, again, look, the media doesn't have to like it, but the reality is, the American people have rejected this gaslighting and have put President Trump back in the White House with a clear agenda, and we are going to stand right behind the president every step of the way.

BROWN: OK.

And, again, just to be clear, this isn't about the media not liking it. I'm talking about your critics and whether you're willing to consider their point of view, because, as you know, you oversee an entire education system in the state of Oklahoma with people with varying viewpoints. And we want to bring that to light.

It's a really important conversation. It's going to continue on.

Superintendent Ryan Walters, appreciate your time. Thank you for coming on.

WALTERS: Thank you.

BROWN: We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:47:25]

BROWN: New this morning, a major policy shift by the White House.

The U.S. will now allow Ukraine to fire American-made long-range missiles into Russia, according to two U.S. officials familiar with the decision. Ukraine's president has been asking to use them for a long time. The Kremlin is warning the move throws oil on the fire of the conflict. The decision could also force president-elect Trump to rethink how he plans to end the war.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen joins us now from Moscow.

Fred, what more are we hearing from the Kremlin?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Pamela.

We have got pretty angry reactions from the Kremlin, also from Russian state TV that, of course, we have been monitoring throughout the entire day. And there are really two things that the Kremlin has been saying. And one of them, you already mentioned, which is pouring oil into the

fire, as the Kremlin put it, essentially saying that the outgoing Biden administration continues, as the Kremlin put it, to fan the flames of the Ukraine war, which obviously the Russians believe could end fairly soon once the Trump administration takes office, which the Russians believe could be better for them or get -- come to a better outcome for them.

The other thing is that the Russians are warning that all of this could pit the United States and Russia directly against one another. In fact, Vladimir Putin has been saying over the past couple of weeks, as the Biden administration has been pondering this decision, that he believes that only -- that Ukraine is not able to conduct strikes with weapons like the surface-to-surface attack ATACMS missiles from the United States without the help of specialists from the country where these missiles come from, in this case, of course, the United States.

Therefore, the Russians are saying that strikes deep into Russian territory conducted with these kinds of weapons would be considered by the Russians as a direct act of war by the U.S. or NATO countries against Russia.

Pamela, the Russians have even changed the nuclear doctrine of this country to specifically call for one of these scenarios where if Russia is attacked with long-distance weapons by a non-nuclear country, like Ukraine, with the help of a nuclear country like the United States, that that could trigger a nuclear response for the Russians.

Of course, we have in the past heard the Russians pull out red lines many times that new weapons have been provided to the Ukrainians. The Russians, however, are now saying that, for them, all options are on the table as they weigh their response. Of course, still waiting to see if, when and how the Ukrainians will really use these weapons to strike deep into Russia, Pamela.

BROWN: Fred Pleitgen in Moscow, thank you so much.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:54:26]

BROWN: Some other stories we're following today.

Water in Asheville, North Carolina, may soon be safe to drink again seven weeks after Tropical Storm Helene damaged the city's water system. Residents have been living under a boil-water notice, which could be lifted as soon as Tuesday. The city's Water Resources Department says there's a sampling process that must be completed first.

Spirit Airlines says it has filed for bankruptcy. Big debt, sharp losses, and more competition have all hurt the company's bottom line. But if you have a ticket for Thanksgiving next week or beyond, there's no need to panic. In a statement, Spirit says -- quote -- "Guests can continue to book and fly without interruption and can use all tickets, credits, and loyalty points as normal."

[11:55:05]

And police in the U.K. are looking for masked thieves who stole vehicles from Windsor Castle while members of the British royal family may have been asleep nearby. This is where Prince William, Princess Catherine and their three children live.

In a statement to CNN, police said the incident took place in October and that the thieves entered a farm building on the property. This is considered a major breach of security for one of the royal residences, to say the least.

Well, thanks for joining me. I'm Pamela Brown. You can follow me on Instagram, TikTok and X @PamelaBrownCNN. I want to hear from you.

Stay with us. "INSIDE POLITICS WITH DANA BASH" starts after a short break.