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Neo-Nazi Demonstration in Columbus Condemned by Ohio Officials; House Ethics Committee to Meet Tomorrow on Gaetz Report; Trump Likely to Nominate Howard Lutnick as Secretary of Commerce; Garland Urges Prosecutors to "Uphold the Rule of Law". Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired November 19, 2024 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: Oren Segal joins us now. He's Vice President of the Anti-Defamation League Center on Extremism. Oren, I know you look at this this type of repugnant activity all the time. Do these incidents reflect a larger trend in the U.S. right now? What can you tell us?

OREN SEGAL, VP, ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE CENTER ON EXTREMISM: Yes, Jim, this is not a new phenomenon. We've tracked over 280, you know, paramilitary style, white supremacist marches and events in 2023. And we're well over a hundred in 2024. We need to remember that these are designed to create fear and anxiety in communities, but also to act as almost like a photo opportunity, right? These are recorded by these white supremacists themselves to signal back to their online community to try to get people to embrace their hatred and potentially to act on it.

ACOSTA: And I was just going to ask, what is the goal of these demonstrators? I mean, and -- I mean, what's your sense of whether, you know, this kind of stuff needs to be held up to the light of day? I mean, and talking about it in the way that you and I are talking about it right now?

SEGAL: Yes, unfortunately, we don't have a luxury to just dismiss these events as insignificant or, you know, too small. I mean, sometimes, yes, 12 people gather together with hateful signs. Other times it's 20. And, you know, we've seen 100 people gather together.

The point is that, you know, these folks are talking about great replacement, creating a white ethno state. And these messages resonate with people. We have seen in the past how those narratives animate people to violence. So, frankly, we ignore these events at our peril. And it's not always about the size, but about how much they're able to amplify this hatred and rhetoric through their online channels.

ACOSTA: And did some of those get ratcheted up because we were in the middle of a campaign year, obviously 2023 leading into a campaign year. Is that part of it? Because the elections were coming up in this country?

SEGAL: I'll tell you this. White supremacists and all extremists never miss an opportunity to leverage a crisis or a political or public discussion. And so, when issues of immigration or trans rights or other, you know, kind of hot button topics in this country happen, we see that white nationalists tend to then create these marches designed to, you know, feed upon people's fears on those issues.

So, it's not surprising that extremists take their cues from our public discussion, but that's why it's so important for leaders, whether it's elected officials, people in the community to reject these activities, these marches and the narratives as soon as they happen.

ACOSTA: And, Oren, I mean, I don't have to tell you President-Elect Trump frequently uses divisive language, has downplayed racial violence and the threat of white supremacists. He did that during his first term in office. I was there with him when he talked about very fine people on both sides in Charlottesville. And I'm sure you remember just before he took office, in late 2016 there were white supremacists holding a rally and praising his victory. Should we expect an uptick in this kind of activity with Trump returning to the White House?

SEGAL: I think what we need to remember is that this white supremacist activity never went away. You know, perhaps we didn't, you know, cover it as much in the news because there were other issues. But the reality is, you know, the book on white supremacy, anti- Semitism, and hatred is not closed. In fact, there are more chapters being written every single day.

And so, we should fully expect that white supremacists will continue to try to leverage our public discussion to try to incite fear and anxiety in communities and frankly, even fight amongst each other, which is really dangerous.

ACOSTA: All right. Oren Segal with the Anti-Defamation League. You do very important work. Please keep us posted on what you find out here in the days and weeks to come. We really appreciate it, Oren. Thanks for your time.

SEGAL: Thank you, Jim.

ACOSTA: Coming up, the first transgender person elected to the U.S. House is responding after Republican Congresswoman Nancy Mace introduced a resolution to ban her from women's bathrooms up on Capitol Hill. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: The House Ethics Committee is scheduled to meet tomorrow as it weighs whether to release its report on Matt Gaetz. But Donald Trump is doubling down on his demand that the former Republican congressman be approved as his attorney general. Sources tell CNN the president-elect is calling some senators directly to ask for their support. Gaetz was being investigated on allegations of sex trafficking and illicit drug use. The lawyer for two women who testified before the committee spoke to CNN about what they told lawmakers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOEL LEPPARD, LAWYER FOR GAETZ ACCUSERS: The testimony before the House was, yes, that Representative Gaetz paid my client -- both of my clients, for sexual favors throughout the summer of 2017, all the way to the beginning of 2019. She testified to the House that as she was walking out to the pool area, she turned to her right and she witnessed her client -- I'm sorry, her friend having sex with Representative Gaetz and a friend at that time was 17.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Matt Gaetz, we should note, has denied any wrongdoing. And joining us now to talk about this, CNN Political Commentator Karen Finney and former spokesperson for North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum's presidential campaign, Lance Trover.

Lance, to you first, your sense of it. I mean, are these allegations enough, do you think, for the Trump team to, you know, sort of pull back on this Gaetz pick? I mean, at this point, is it a little too much at this point to push forward?

[10:40:00]

LANCE TROVER, FORMER SPOKESPERSON, 2024 BURGUM PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: No, I don't think so yet. I mean, I always go back to the Washington Post reported out that there was credibility -- witness credibility problems. That's what the Justice Department cited when they said they weren't going to go after him on this stuff. And I think it's important in a country that says, you're guilty -- you're innocent until proven guilty. But we should take that into consideration.

And so, the Ethics Committee is going to do what they're going to do tomorrow. I personally think, you know, they don't really have a history of putting these reports out there. So, I think it would be kind of a surprise and a little bit of a break to their credibility if they put it out there.

But really, the moment, it's going to go to the Senate. One way or another, it is heading towards the Senate, and these senators are going to have to make a decision as to whether they want to buck Donald Trump. And oftentimes, when lawmakers buck Donald Trump, it doesn't usually work out so well for them. But that's where I see it headed.

ACOSTA: Yes. Karen, I mean, what's your sense of it? Elon Musk tweeted that Matt Gaetz has three critical assets that are needed for the A.G. role. Big brain, a spine of steel and an axe to grind. He will be our hammer of justice. That's what it says on -- in that tweet. They're maybe a little bit hyperbolic. I don't know. What do you think? But -- I mean, Lance might be glossing over the fact that there are some Republican senators who are concerned about this pick. not to pick on Lance, but I --

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR AND SENIOR ADVISER, HILLARY CLINTON 2016 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: Correct.

ACOSTA: It seems to be the case.

FINNEY: And look, Elon Musk is not the person who should be giving advice about who should be the attorney general of the United States. You know, the constitution says the president gets to nominate who they want, and the Senate has a responsibility that they take very seriously, as we've seen on both sides of the aisle to advising consent.

So, I think there are very serious concerns about Matt Gaetz and around this case and, you know, some other issues throughout his career. What I think we'll see happen is regardless of what the committee decides to do, I hope the senators say that they want to look at all of the information and all of the evidence because they deserve to have that. And they need that in order to make the most informed decision. I think it's certainly possible that the information could be leaked.

You know, Lance mentioned the credibility of the Ethics Committee. It's already a little shaky. Let's be honest, always has.

TROVER: That we agree with.

FINNEY: But in this instance, look, I think it's important that the senators, that there's full transparency, that there are hearings, that there are not recess appointments and that we, you know, follow the constitution and ensure that all of the facts are able to come forward.

But again, think about it this way. If you were applying for a job and you had this kind of thing in your background, someone might say, I don't think you're the right person for this job until you get all of these things resolved. So, we're talking about the highest law enforcement officer in the country, and we're talking about potentially paid for sex with a 17-year-old child. I think we need to get to the bottom and understand what happened here. Because remember, the DOJ didn't pursue the case simply because they thought, well, maybe this wouldn't make a good case, not because they had concerns about the evidence itself.

ACOSTA: Yes. I mean, Lance, I mean, why stick out your neck for Matt Gaetz? I mean, obviously, you know, Trump could find a whole host of people who could essentially be the hammer of justice, so to speak, as Elon Musk put it for the far-right. I mean, why waste political capital on Matt Gaetz?

TROVER: I don't know that Donald Trump sees it as wasting political capital, certainly not at this juncture.

ACOSTA: Or spending it, yes.

TROVER: Yes. I mean, I don't -- I mean, look I think that --

ACOSTA: Is this part of the -- I mean, there's been some thought given to maybe this is just sort of like flood the zone, as, you know, Steve Bannon used to say, flood the zone with excrement. You flood the zone with pics and you know that, OK, some of them are not going to get through and some of them will. And maybe in the end you get somebody else through for attorney general that perhaps you really wanted in the first place?

TROVER: Well, I'm not down at Mar-a-Lago making these decisions. I mean, I've talked about this. I think they've had a very smooth and seamless transition so far. I think he's gotten, what, 13 nominees in 13 days. He's done a really good job of that. And yes, this is a controversial nominee, but that's what I was going back to.

And I think Karen and I are on somewhat of the same page in that there is a process here, and that will play out, and it's going to go to the United States Senate, it's going to go to the Judiciary Committee, and these Senators are going to have to review all of the work, and all of the evidence, and everything, and he's going to have to testify, and come forward, and they're going to have to make a decision. But typically --

ACOSTA: And if the Democrats had put forward somebody for attorney general, who was being accused of having sex with an underage girl, I'm just trying to -- I'm trying to imagine all of the heads exploding up on Capitol Hill. It would be -- you could photograph it from space.

FINNEY: I'm sure (INAUDIBLE), Jim.

ACOSTA: You could photograph the head explosions from space. Yes.

FINNEY: Yes. But can I just -- to your question, Jim, I think there's a couple of other things here. Presidents always know -- or president- elects always know this -- there's -- to some degree, this is a game, right? You have all your chess pieces, your checkers pieces, pick your game, your players on the field, pick your, you know, metaphor there, and there is a little bit of a flood the zone because at some point they may have to make certain compromises. It may be dealing for, OK, you can have these two, but not this one.

[10:45:00]

So, I would not be surprised if we ended up in that situation and particularly given -- remember, that the opposition to Gaetz is very much bipartisan opposition. This isn't just about Democrats, but I think the other pieces, how would that look? Donald Trump says he's not willing to go in the tank and fight for Matt Gaetz, who has these allegations of -- this sexual behavior. Well, we happen to have a president who has been found liable for sexual assault. And there's a little bit of hypocrisy there that I think he's got to be mindful of on this one.

ACOSTA: And, Karen, I don't mean to cut in, but I do want to say, and I'll get Lance to respond to this. Apparently, we're just getting this word in from our Kristen Holmes. President-Elect Trump is likely to nominate Cantor Fitzgerald CEO Howard Lutnick as secretary of commerce. That is what we're hearing just in the last couple of minutes. Lutnick, the co-chair of the transition, has been in a battle with Scott Besson over secretary of treasury.

There was some thought, Lance, that maybe this battle over, you know, who's going to be treasury secretary kind of canceled both of them out. But it sounds as though, this is according to our Kristen Holmes, that Lutnick is going to be nominated as secretary of commerce.

TROVER: I think -- look, we talk a lot about Matt Gaetz. There are a lot of qualified individuals that he's putting up for these posts. And I think, again, they have moved with an efficiency and discipline that is really probably uncharacteristic of the Trump operation from years gone past, and I think they're to be commended for that.

ACOSTA: What do you think, Karen?

FINNEY: Let's see. So, is that one for Elon or is that a compromise? I mean, I think we are also watching the machinations of who's pushing who for what gig and who wins. And you know, what's the scoreboard here for -- between Elon and the rest of the team?

TROVER: There's a lot of -- look, when you're going for big change, you're going to have a lot of big personalities and a lot of disagreements that happens. But Trump makes the decision at the end of the day. We do know that.

ACOSTA: And maybe a few big speed bumps along the way, but we'll see. We'll see how it all plays out. Karen Finney, Lance Trover, thanks a lot. Appreciate it.

Coming up seven weeks after disaster struck. Asheville, North Carolina, get this, we have some good news to report. Thank goodness. Finally has clean drinking water. That's -- we're going to talk about that just a few moments. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:00]

ACOSTA: Merrick Garland is using his last comments as attorney general to urge prosecutors to protect the Justice Department's mission. Let's bring in CNN's Katelyn Polantz. Katelyn, this is the first time Garland has spoken publicly since Trump picked Matt Gaetz to succeed Garland as attorney general. What did the attorney general have to say?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, he's not going there on Gaetz specifically, but this is an outgoing attorney general who is pumping up the team, or at least trying to. That's been a part of Garland's legacy, or the legacy he wants to build, in restoring confidence in the department after it was badly damaged among the career rank and file by Bill Barr at the end of the previous Trump administration.

And now, he was speaking to the Southern District of New York last night at a time where many in the Justice Department don't have great morale about what the incoming Attorney General Matt Gaetz may feel like as the leader of that department and the legal community from what I hear is in total -- they just do not believe that Gaetz will be the attorney general. It hasn't sunk in. Here's a little bit more of what Garland had to say to the prosecutors of the Southern District of New York on his tour of that office yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MERRICK GARLAND, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: I may be coming to the end of my tenure at the Justice Department, but I know that all of you will continue. You will continue in the department's mission, what has always been its mission, to uphold the rule of law, to keep our country safe and to protect civil rights. You, the career lawyers of this district, the career lawyers of all the U.S. attorney's offices, the career -- all lawyers of the Justice Department as a whole, you are the institutional backbone of this department. You are the historical memory of this department. You are the heart and soul of the department. You are the Justice Department.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POLANTZ: And a reminder on the accomplishments of this office alone. They've brought the indictments aren't resolved yet of Eric Adams, the mayor, Sean P. Diddy Combs, sex trafficking case, made a big splash there. And then the Southern District of New York also secured the conviction of Senator Bob Menendez on corruption charges in the fall. So, they've been really doing a lot. Garland, they're visiting as he's trying to get around the country to U.S. attorney's offices.

ACOSTA: But obviously, Katelyn, there are going to be frustrations, there are going to continue to be frustrations among Democrats that the January 6 case did not get all the way to trial while Merrick Garland was the attorney general. And what about what is happening, you might have a sense of this, inside the department, I just have a little bit of time, the concerns about what may be coming when you hear Trump, people like Elon Musk talking about Matt Gaetz cleaning house at the Department of Justice?

POLANTZ: Yes, there are concerns because the people that work in the Justice Department were -- some of them investigating Gaetz himself, resulting in no charges. But it's a moment for Garland right now to assess the last four years of his service as attorney general.

ACOSTA: All right, Katelyn, thanks so much. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: Thanks very much for joining me this morning. I want to bring in my friend Pamela Brown, colleague on the 11:00 Newsroom edition. Pamela, it's been -- I mean, it's hard to believe it's been more than seven weeks since Helene devastated parts of the southeast and some -- we have some good news to report. One of the hardest hit areas, Asheville, North Carolina, folks there finally have safe drinking water. I know you and I have both been tracking this for weeks --

[11:00:00]