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Russia: Ukraine Fires U.S.-Made Longer-Range Missiles Into Russia; Manhattan D.A. Recommends Postponing Trump Hush Money Sentencing; Sources: Vance To Bring Trump Cabinet Picks To Capitol This Week; Trump To Attend SpaceX Launch With Elon Musk; European Officials Cry Sabotage After Two Undersea Cables Cut. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired November 19, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:25]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Hello, I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. Thanks so much for joining me today on CNN NEWSROOM.

And let's get right to the news. For 1,000 days now, Ukraine has defended its sovereignty against a far more powerful Russia, using limited resources and weapons systems. Today, for the first time, it used long range missiles supplied by the U.S. to strike a weapons arsenal inside Russia.

Moscow is responding with yet more nuclear saber rattling this time as Russian President Vladimir Putin announced changes to his country's nuclear doctrine. Under those changes, Moscow will now consider attacks by any non-nuclear state with the aid of a nuclear state as a joint attack on Russia, creating conditions for a possible Russian nuclear response. Russia's foreign minister called Ukraine's use of the U.S. made ATACMS missiles, as they're known inside Russia, as a, quote, new phase of war by the West.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen is in Moscow.

Fred, you go there frequently. I wonder how Russia and Russians are seeing this new phase.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Jim. Well, first of all, the Russian government and those in power here are obviously extremely angry about the fact that these ATACMS missiles have now been used by the Ukrainians. It was a bit of a different story coming here on Russian state media claiming that of those six ATACMS missiles that apparently were fired at that weapons depot, that five were actually taken down. The Russians say by Russian air defenses, they didn't show any video to see what exactly really happened there. They did say some debris fell in the area of what they call a military installation.

At the same time, of course, you do have the Russians now ramping up that nuclear rhetoric, changing the nuclear doctrine of this country and saying that there will be a response from Moscow. Here's what we're learning.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) PLEITGEN (voice-over): Ukraine not wasting any time, striking deep into Russian territory, using U.S.-supplied ATACMS surface to surface missiles, only days after getting the go ahead from the Biden administration, the U.S. confirms.

Ukraine's president coy when asked about the strikes. We now have ATACMS and we will use them, he said.

Moscow up in arms, claiming Ukraine targeted military installations in southwestern Russia overnight. The foreign minister ripping into the Biden administration.

The fact that ATACMS were used repeatedly tonight in the Bryansk region is, of course, a signal that they want escalation and it's impossible to use these high tech missiles without the Americans.

And Putin has spoken about this many times, and now, Putin has reacted.

Breaking news on Kremlin controlled TV after the Russian president signed an order changing the country's nuclear doctrine. The use of Western missiles for strikes into the strategic depths of Russia means direct involvement of NATO in the war, the host says, and now Moscow's hands are untied.

Among the changes, the Russians now consider attacks by non-nuclear nations like Ukraine with the help of nuclear nations like the U.S., worthy of a nuclear response, at least on paper.

The spokesman for the Kremlin says the reason why the Russians decided to update their nuclear doctrine is still potential adversaries of Russia know that retaliation will be inevitable if Russia is attacked.

We're with the American channel CNN. Can we?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay.

PLEITGEN: This morning, your president Vladimir Putin signed an update to Russia's nuclear doctrine. What do you think about it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is there to think about? What kind of response can there be? Only this kind.

PLEITGEN: He has greatly expanded the possibility of using nuclear weapons. Do you think this is a good idea?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What should our president do? He has to think of something. We need to scare someone.

PLEITGEN: Do you think that the threat of the use of nuclear weapons has increased now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think they will do it. It sounds like mad people. Now, they are mad people. They are very clever, not mad.

PLEITGEN: Russia's moved to change its nuclear posture comes exactly on the 1,000th day of the war in Ukraine, as the U.S. is trying to help keep the badly outgunned Ukrainians in the fight, now allowing Kyiv (INAUDIBLE) some of the most powerful weapons they've been given.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PLEITGEN (on camera): So, you see here, Jim, some of the voices here from on the ground in Moscow, of course, also from the course, one of the things that we know, Jim, from covering the war in Ukraine is that in the past, when the Ukrainians have received new weapons systems from Western nations, Russia has often drawn red lines in the sand.

[15:05:04]

And so far, not very much has happened afterwards.

In this case, the Russians are saying this comes from the spokesman from the foreign ministry that Russia's response, as she puts it, will be felt, Jim.

SCIUTTO: We'll see, right, because there are many, of course, in Eastern Europe who make exactly the point you do that this is saber- rattling as opposed to an actual threat.

Fred Pleitgen in Moscow, thanks so much.

Joining me now to discuss is Tymofiy Mylovanov. He's the president of the Kyiv School of Economics, former Ukrainian minister of economic development and trade.

Good to have you back. Thanks so much for joining.

First, I want to begin with the U.S. decision to allow Ukraine to strike inside Russia with the ATACMS system. There was -- there is a read of this that the change could create a bargaining chip, something that the U.S. could stop in the future in exchange for something in return from Russia. Is that an accurate read in your view?

TYMOFIY MYLOVANOV, PRESIDENT, KYIV SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS: Yeah. I'm not so sure. I think there are so much more that can be bargained for. And if Russia is going to go towards discussion of arms support for Ukraine, it will demand complete seizure, a complete stop of any support by the United States. So I don't think it's a big bargaining chip.

SCIUTTO: Okay. Tell me how Ukrainian citizens then see this because, of course, Ukraine has been asking for this for a long time. The decision comes two months before Biden leaves office. There will be a new president.

Do Ukrainians -- do you see this as a substantive change or just sort of a parting gift before he goes?

MYLOVANOV: In my view, it's actually a symbolic policy change rather than a true reversal. However, I don't want to dismiss or devalue -- the actual combat benefits of these missiles as we have seen them today being launched at Bryansk, weapons depots. So I think it's a little bit too late. And it is more of a symbol that the Biden administration departing from the White House wants to support Ukraine. I just wish this support had happened in 2022. Then we would have had Russia pushed back, and there would be no war today.

SCIUTTO: I spoke to the Polish president, Andrzej Duda, yesterday, and he had spoken to Trump since the election and they spoke about Ukraine. I want to play for you what President Duda said about his expectations for Trump and Ukraine and get your response.

Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDRZEJ DUDA, POLISH PRESIDENT (through translator): I am calm and peaceful about what kind of policy vis-a-vis Russia President Donald Trump will be implementing. For sure, it will not be as soft policy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: He says Trump will not be soft on Russia as regards Ukraine. Do you agree?

MYLOVANOV: I actually agree with that. I think some of the nominations by the Trump administration shows very clearly -- clearly that Trump and his circle views the China, Iran and Russia as coordinate axis rather than Ukraine being an isolated regional issue. And in that sense, it's good for Ukraine. There's definitely going to be a change, and a change is needed.

Now, there is a lot of anticipation or even apprehension in Ukraine that maybe Trump will side with Russia and will simply fulfill or put pressure on Ukraine to meet all the demands by Russia, including disarmament, including never joining NATO, including giving up territories and changing Constitution. I think that's not going to happen because it would make the Trump administration look really weak and will damage their credibility internationally.

So I think the situation will be better. Although, it's not given that Ukraine will like every bit of it.

SCIUTTO: Now, of course, we have Russia threatening further escalation in response to this U.S. move regarding the ATACMS system. Do you -- do Ukrainians believe the threats this time? Because as we said right before you, this is not the first time Russia has threatened an escalation or talked about the possibility of a nuclear strike?

MYLOVANOV: It's an emotional blackmail by Russia. It has been used before and actually quite effective in paralyzing the West response. No, we don't believe it will be used.

And there's also, uh clearer structural arguments. Why? Because if, for example, Russia would like to create some kind of nuclear incident on the territory of Ukraine, it could attack and bomb a nuclear power plant, it would have a plausible deniability. But the signal will be clear and it will be equivalent to a weaker version of a tactical nuclear weapon.

[15:15:06]

So Russia has a lot of instruments it still can use to escalate in Ukraine. And it's way before any nukes so I think were not even close to be there. It's rhetoric and Russia, President Putin claims that now the hands are untied. Now their hands have always been untied. No one ever ties them for them. So they don't respect any agreements. And this is nothing more than posturing.

SCIUTTO: I want to ask your view of how Ukraine is doing, how the Ukrainian public is doing 1,000 days into a war with enormous casualties, enormous human suffering, right? And deliberate attacks on the power infrastructure. There's a new poll out from Gallup measuring Ukrainian support for fighting the war and the support for continuing the war has dropped now, an average of 52 percent of Ukrainians now would like to see their country negotiate an end to the war.

And I wonder, do you see the same thing where you are that patience is running thin?

MYLOVANOV: Well, not so much patience, but sort of the views that the cost of the war is truly high and the support that we would like to have is not quite there, and there is uncertainty about the Trump administration coming in, whether Ukraine will be supported or it will be sold out. So, all of that changes the informational environment and the rhetoric here on the ground, it is true that many more people who used to say that they would like to see the territories fully recaptured now are thinking that maybe something else is an outcome.

I think the framing of the questions, however, is a bit misleading, but it should be more nuanced or more specific about the conditions, about the security guarantees. What Ukrainians definitely do not want is to surrender Ukraine under the pretext of armistice or ceasefire. If, for example, a condition for peace would be disarming Ukraine or change in Constitution, not to join the E.U., this will never go through in Ukraine.

If, on the other hand, there will be a de facto peace, now let's be realistic. Those territories which are under occupation, they de facto are controlled by Russia. And we need much more than ATACMS to ever be able to take them back. So, you know, the reality on the ground is, in fact, grim. And I think most people realize that.

Well, Tymofiy Mylovanov, we know the suffering that Ukraine has gone through these last 1,000 days, and we hope -- we hope you find peace and safety soon.

MYLOVANOV: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Let's continue the conversation with CNN global affairs analyst Kim Dozier.

Listening to Tymofiy there, I wonder what your thoughts were in answer to that question about just the public state of mind there, right? I mean, it's just been enormous, enormous losses. It's hard to find a family in Ukraine that hasn't been touched by the losses from this war.

To his point -- yes, people may be running out they don't want to give up everything, right? I mean, they don't want to be in a situation where Russia can attack again soon.

KIM DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yeah. You know, the Gallup poll you mentioned also says that that same 52 percent that's willing to negotiate an end to the war says that they're willing to make territorial concessions but do those concessions mean giving up on Crimea which hasn't been part of Ukraine because of the Russian invasion and seizure since 2014? Or does that also mean giving part -- giving up some part of Ukraine proper?

SCIUTTO: Right.

DOZIER: The Donbas, which Russia is making advances in right now?

But you have to look at the toll its taking in terms of reports of desertions on the battlefield and also Russia has been hammering the Ukraine electricity grid. The transmission grid, before it was going for power generation. Now, it's going for the way you get that electricity around the country. People are beginning to feel that with hours and hours a day without electricity, and it's not even full winter yet.

So, there are fears that you're going to have another refugee crisis and flight from the country. All of that shows you the kind of pressure that Ukrainians are under, and the sort of slim margins that President Zelenskyy is dealing with in trying to keep the war going with pressure from within and soon from the White House.

SCIUTTO: Okay, so speaking of pressure you have the Biden -- the outgoing Biden administration now giving Ukraine this permission to strike inside limited areas of Russia. Beyond whether this is a bargaining chip, as I asked Tymofiy prior, is this an attempt by the Biden administration, in your view to, in effect, tie the Trump administrations hands?

[15:15:06]

Because once, you know, the horse is out of the barn, right, as it were, this would require Trump to take that back from the Ukrainians. And by some accounts, he does not want to be seen as weak as regards Russia. Could this be, I don't know, a tactical move on the part of part of the Biden administration to tie the Trump administrations hands?

DOZIER: Well, it certainly is going to make administration but the other thing it could do is there is now a lot of pressure on the British government and also the French government to give similar permissions for the use of their mid to long range missiles that Ukraine is right now allowed to use inside the country, but not inside Russia.

And the British prime minister, Keir Starmer, was asked about that, when he dodged the questions. But if other NATO countries also like the us, quietly give permission without making any public statements, because, you know, the White House has not confirmed this publicly, at least last I checked, it's all anonymous sources confirming it, and then it's Russian reports that the missiles have already been -- the ATACMS have already been used on its soil.

But you could get into a situation where Kyiv at least has enough support from European countries that it holds to enough territory to go in negotiations from a position of strength. The other thing that it could do is buy enough time if the Biden administration could front load enough money, weapons materiel into Kyiv right now, they could last until the E.U. could try to ramp up even more production.

Right now, in terms of Ukraine aid, about 43 percent is coming from the U.S. and 43 percent is coming from the E.U. Now, the E.U. has ramped up manufacturing lines and weapons production but it needs, at least another year if not two, to double its current aid to Ukraine going.

SCIUTTO: OK.

DOZIER: And there are some nations that are going to be willing to because they think if you say yes to Russia now, Russia's going to wait a couple of years and then try to seize something else.

SCIUTTO: Does Europe stay united on this going forward then? Because at the G20, at CNN's reporting that Biden's order regarding the ATACMS has created some divisions there, because while there were some NATO allies who've been asking for exactly the same thing, there are others who say, well, this upsets, you know, some sort of tentative attempts at this point to, at least have some outreach towards Russia.

I mean, if -- if Trump backs off this fulsome U.S. support does that divide Europe, which has been listen, Putin's goal from the beginning here, right? And some in Europe begin to peel off.

DOZIER: The ATACMS decision is going to alienate some members of NATO who have been trying to keep their relations there, keep the phone lines open with Russia. But yes, in the coming year, you've got Germany that's -- the governments facing a new election in February. The next government might not be so pro providing weapons to Ukraine.

So that's to say there's going to be this slim window where hopefully Zelenskyy can make some sort of a positive deal when Trump launches negotiations that he promised to do because, the longer it goes on, the longer the conflict continues. The weaker Kyiv is likely to get because it's just, as you say politically and economically, the E.U. is not likely to be able to maintain a united front and make up for all that lost U.S. aid.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, just what Russia's been waiting for, division and exhaustion.

Kim Dozier, thanks so much.

Well, still to come back here in the U.S., the Manhattan district attorney agrees to postpone Donald Trump's sentencing in his hush money case. We will explain what if anything happens next after a short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:21:47]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back.

We have legal news. In New York City today, the Manhattan district attorney has agreed to postpone sentencing once again for President- elect Donald Trump on his hush money convictions, multiple convictions. A reminder, a jury convicted Trump on 34 felony counts of falsifying business records earlier this year.

CNN's Kara Scannell joins me now to explain.

Postponed forever? Does it ever come back?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That will be the big question. They're saying that they agree to postpone it. It was scheduled for next Tuesday because Trump's lawyers are going to file a motion to dismiss the case. And the D.A.'s office is saying that they plan to oppose that motion and defend the conviction.

And one of the reasons they cited in their letter to the judge informing him of this, they said: The people deeply respect the office of the president are mindful of the demands and obligations of the presidency, and acknowledge that defendants inauguration will raise unprecedented legal questions. We also deeply respect the fundamental role of the system.

So the D.A.'s office saying that they know that there are legal issues here to be litigated, and it's unchartered territory because there has never been a sentencing on state charges and -- but they're saying that they understand this. But they are willing to move forward in the case and defend the conviction.

It was a question of whether or not they would do that, because Trump's team has raised a lot of these legal issues, but they're saying that they do think that there is room in the law for them to defend this conviction. So they're agreeing to postpone the sentencing because they say that no matter how this litigation turns out, it's likely that someone will appeal it to the appeals court, maybe to the Supreme Court.

And so, those judges will end up inevitably staying Trump's sentencing date. So, saying we just removed that right now. But they are asking the state judge to move pretty quickly, saying they want to set a quick date for Trump's memo to be due on their motion to dismiss, and the D.A.'s office saying that they would be ready to file their opposition to that by December 9th.

SCIUTTO: OK.

SCANNELL: Now, ultimately, though, this is still up to the judge to decide whether to grant this postponement of the sentencing and we've not heard from him yet. But given that the D.A.'s office is not opposing this, it seems likely that he will question.

SCIUTTO: Question, I mean, let's say they go forward. It's a state court, state judge. Can the Supreme Court overrule a state court?

SCANNELL: I think the question here is, given the supremacy issues of the Constitution, whether a Trump who's now president elect but would be a sitting president whether a state judge could enforce the judgment on the president, given that its a criminal case, being even separate from private litigation, which would not be affected but this -- this is the grounds that they would be struggling about the supremacy clause being at least one area.

I'm sure there's going to be other legal questions that they raise, but that is ultimately a question that they would be potentially putting on the table. And also a reason why they might say, let's just wait until he's out of office if it takes that long for him to be sentenced.

SCIUTTO: Kara Scannell, thanks so much.

All right. We're now turning to the presidential transition. New to CNN, Vice President-elect J.D. Vance will head to Capitol Hill this week to help push through the incoming president's cabinet picks including Matt Gaetz for attorney general, and Pete Hegseth for defense secretary.

[15:25:01]

Plus, the president filled another slot. He announced his transition co-chair and CEO of Cantor Fitzgerald, Howard Lutnick, will be secretary of commerce. It's a bittersweet announcement for Lutnick, who had been pushing to lead the Treasury Department as treasury secretary, more powerful position.

For more on the transition, Kristen Holmes joins me now.

First, Lutnick for commerce, not the job he wanted but still quite close to the president. What's the impact?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, and the big question now is what this actually means for secretary of treasury.

Jim, as we've been reporting, Lutnick was part of the reason that they had to delay the announcement for treasury secretary because of the fact that he threw his name into the mix last minute. Now, we were told that this actually really bothered some of the people on the transition. As you noted, he was the chair of the -- of the transition, but also bothered President-elect Donald Trump that he was using his position to empower himself and not others.

So this seems to be a consolation prize. Now, as of yesterday, because of this kind of infighting between the two top candidates for secretary of treasury, one of them being Howard Lutnick, the other one being Scott Bessent, a hedge fund manager. We were told that they had expanded the field and actually brought in more people to be interviewed yesterday. Now with this Lutnick news, what were waiting to hear is what this

means going forward in terms of treasury. We know that Lutnick is on board to do whatever Donald Trump wants in terms of commerce. He has spoken about tariffs. He has spoken about following through on all of his economic policies. Now, the question is who is going to be in that treasury to also help promote that agenda?

SCIUTTO: All right. Of course, the other nomination that has so much attention here is that on Matt Gaetz, you have new reporting on how hard Trump is pushing to get him through. And is he willing to, in effect, sacrifice other nominations?

HOLMES: Well, Jim, it certainly sounds that way. It sounds like everything is on Matt Gaetz right now, that that's where Donald Trump's focus is. And he has told people around him, no matter what he wants. Gaetz confirmed.

We're just not hearing that same language from him when it comes to some of his other controversial picks like Pete Hegseth, like RFK Jr., like Tulsi Gabbard.

Now whether that's because he thinks it's possible they could get confirmed on their own, or if it's because, as you said, that he wants to make sure Matt Gaetz is first and in line and he puts all of his political capital behind him. It's still not entirely clear. But what we do know is that he himself has been personally calling Republican senators trying to lobby for Matt Gaetz, trying to get their support.

And he's also told people around him that he is aware that as of this moment, he probably doesn't have the support to get Matt Gaetz confirmed.

So, tomorrow, the next day, were told the vice president-elect, J.D. Vance, is essentially going to be bringing some of these cabinet picks up to the Hill, among them will be Matt Gaetz, who has also been personally lobbying some of these Republican senators.

One thing to keep in mind, though, Jim, we have not seen that ethics report. So how that plays into this, we'll have to wait and see. But the other part of this is that it's not just Democrats who are calling for the release of this ethics report. The reason why they're pushing so hard on these Republican senators is because some of the requests to see the report are coming from them as well.

SCIUTTO: And some of the details were already seeing, right, based on, for instance the lawyer for the women involved, quite alarming.

Kristen Holmes, thanks so much.

HOLMES: Right.

SCIUTTO: As Kristen was saying, Trump and Gaetz are both working the phones trying to push Republican senators to as, one member put it, give Gaetz a shot to run the DOJ.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Do you plan to meet with Gaetz?

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): I've already talked to him.

RAJU: You did?

HAWLEY: Yeah.

RAJU: And what was that like?

HAWLEY: Well, good. He just I mean, he just said, listen, he wants a shot to be able to lay out his vision for the department and also to respond to these various allegations. And, you know, I said hey, the confirmation hearing is the place and chance to do that.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Nobody should be disqualified because of a media report.

RAJU: It's more than -- it's an investigation, a bipartisan ethics investigation.

GRAHAM: And they didn't proceed forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: We should note, those media reports include comments from the lawyer representing some of the women involved.

But the fact is, yes, at this point, without that House investigation report, the House ethics report, it is media reports that we have now, because that report has not been released. Pressure, though, is rising for that to change for it to be made public.

CNN's congressional correspondent Lauren Fox is on the Hill for an update.

So, Lauren, we heard today from the incoming Senate judiciary committee chair, Chuck Grassley about the probe. An increasing number of Republicans, it seems, want to see it.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Jim, and Chuck Grassley's comments to our colleague Manu Raju were extremely newsy in the sense that last week he was really noncommittal when I had asked him repeatedly whether or not he wanted to see that house ethics report today, he made clear that the House Ethics Report, if it was just handed over to the Senate Judiciary Committee, the whole nomination process, he argued, would go a lot more smoothly.

[15:30:03]

Things would move more quickly.

Obviously, without that report, there's going to be a lot of vetting and due diligence that Grassley staff is going to have to do on their own. So really significant comments from Grassley, given the fact he's

going to be shepherding this nomination through his committee on the Senate Judiciary.

Meanwhile, you have a number of other Republicans who are saying that in the very least, they think senators should have access to this report. Whether or not it becomes public, I think there's some disagreement among Republicans, but at the very least people like Senator John Cornyn, Senator Mike Rounds are arguing this report needs to see the light of day for at least Republicans who have to make this really critical decision about whether or not they think Matt Gaetz is up to the job or not.

Now, we do expect that the House Ethics Committee is going to meet tomorrow, whether or not they decide to release this report, whether or not they decide to vote on the release of this report, that still remains to be seen. But that's going to be something to watch tomorrow on the house side of things.

And again, the Senate Judiciary Committee has made an official request for the House Ethics Committee to transfer the report to them as part of the vetting process. Right now, Democrats control the Senate Judiciary Committee. So, that request was made by Democrats.

But again, Chuck Grassley is going to be key here come January. He's going to be the person who has to decide just how much information he wants in order to make decisions for his committee -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: So what are the Senate judiciary committee options? I mean, can they get information directly from the FBI?

Well, that potentially could be another option. You know, we were asking members earlier today whether or not they want the FBI to turn over some of their reports as they had already done an investigation into Matt Gaetz. There were a number of Republicans who said that they could be interested in that. There are obviously Democrats who say that that's worth pursuing, including Dick Durbin, who's the current chairman of this committee.

But, Jim, I think that there's just a lot of information that senators want to have as part of this vetting process, whether or not they're going to get that information ultimately remains to be seen. And if they don't get that information, are they going to be willing to vote against Matt Gaetz? I think that that's the key question right now.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, they would be defying the president-elect. And we've seen Republicans often shy about doing that. Lauren Fox, thanks so much.

Still to come, Donald Trump is set to join Elon Musk in Texas today for the launch of the largest and most powerful rocket -- rocket ever built. Of course, it's a SpaceX rocket.

Do stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [15:35:35]

SCIUTTO: In just a couple of hours, President Trump is expected to attend the launch of a SpaceX rocket in Texas. Trump to be joined there by SpaceX founder and now co-leader of Trump's newly announced department of government efficiency, Elon Musk, also gave him a lot of money for his campaign. SpaceX will be conducting its sixth test launch of its Starship rocket, which is the most powerful rocket ever built.

CNN's Ed Lavandera is following all of this in Texas.

Ed, so what are the plans for this particular launch given its one in a series of test launches?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this will be the sixth launch that the Starship rocket system has engaged in since April of last year.

And significant moment, you can see the rocket there about five miles away in the distance there. And what we expect to happen this afternoon is that that rocket is actually two different parts. There is what is known as the super heavy booster. That is that the worlds most powerful rocket that will launch the system into the air.

And what is unique about what has happened here recently is that the bottom part of that is supposed to return back to the launch site. And these mechanical arms there that, in theory, will grab it and bring it back so that it can be reused. Whether or not that goes off without a hitch -- well, we'll wait and see. It did work back when this was the test was done back in October, but this will be the first time that President-elect Donald Trump will be on site to witness the launching of one of these -- these massive rockets here.

Elon Musk will be here as well. So we are anticipating the arrival of Donald Trump here in a second in south Texas. And it comes as the relationship between the two men has come under intense scrutiny. Remember that SpaceX and Elon Musk have been engaged in legal fights with the Federal Aviation Administration and with the Environmental Protection Agency as they get clearance to continue with these rocket systems.

So all of that is of great concern to many of the environmental activists and activists who've been very critical of the way SpaceX has carried out these -- these launches here in south Texas. And what that means for the future of this program.

And it's a very important program, because right now, SpaceX has billions of dollars of contracts with NASA as the Artemis mission continues to work towards sending astronauts back to the moon, Jim.

So at the heart of all of this, though, is that relationship between Donald Trump and Elon Musk and what it means for the future of this program in the months and years ahead -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Ed Lavandera, thanks so much. Well, there's some European officials who suspect it's possible Russia

could be behind damage to two underwater cables in the Baltic Sea. The damage to the cables comes just weeks after U.S. officials told me that Moscow is ramping up a dedicated, secretive marine unit which deploys fleets of surface ships submarines and naval drones to map and survey cables. And if order, carry out sabotage.

Those officials said. Russia's decision calculus had changed, making such attacks potentially more likely.

CNN's Anna Stewart has been following developments from London.

I wonder there's been a lot of speculation about the damage to these cables. What are you hearing from European officials?

ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, yesterday, when one cable was reported to have been cut, that was the one between Finland and Germany. It certainly raised some eyebrows, not least given all the warnings we've had from NATO, from European officials, as you say from U.S. sources who have also warned about the potential for sabotage. But then when news emerged that a second cable between Lithuania and Sweden had also been severed 24 hours before, of course, people start to talk.

The German defense minister has said it is likely sabotage. We also heard from the German foreign minister, who said it is unlikely to be a coincidence. Of course, it would not be.

Now why these would be a target? They're critical infrastructure really, 95 percent of the world's Internet communications go through undersea cables. They have been targeted by Russia before and also people are pointing to the fact that what we are seeing in the west is something of a hybrid warfare from Russia. Everything from election interference to alleged arson attacks, to disinformation to even weaponizing migration.

So while no officials are explicitly saying it was Russia or they believe it to be Russia clearly that is the inference here. That is being made, and it does make you question what would be next.

SCIUTTO: Well, it does speak to the atmosphere in Europe right now, does it not, in terms of a whole host of different kinds of attacks beyond, of course, the ongoing war in Ukraine.

[15:40:05]

But there have been assassinations on, on Europe's -- European soil, interference in elections in Europe. So you can understand why there were some officials there in Finland, Germany raising the possibility of further what's known as hybrid warfare.

STEWART: Yes. And it's clandestine. It's easy to deny involvement. It's often minor situations littered around and can feel quite random, and therefore doesn't always meet the threshold where a body like NATO would have to respond. But what it does do is deliver on its objectives, which is to cause disruption sometimes to cause fear, sometimes to have influence on opinion or even, of course, in politics -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Anna Stewart, thanks so much.

We are going to take a short break now. For our international viewers, "LIVING GOLF" is next, and if you're streaming us on MAX, we will be right back with more news after a short break.

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