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Closing Arguments Underway in Laken Riley Murder Trial; Vance Joins Gaetz on Capitol Hill to Shore Up Support; Biden Approves Sending Anti-Personnel Landmines to Ukraine. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired November 20, 2024 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. You are live in the CNN Newsroom. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

We begin this hour with closing arguments now underway and the trial of the man accused of killing Georgia nursing student Laken Riley.

CNN's Ryan Young joins us now. Ryan, what can you tell us?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know right now, Jim, closing arguments are happening in this case. This has shocked so many across the country.

Laken Riley, obviously, was a Georgia student who was out for her morning jog when she was attacked. Back in February, and they played that 911 audio during the early parts of this trial, and you could hear the attack happening on that 911 audio.

That was totally graphic to hear, and obviously there have been so many other key points. There was DNA evidence that was brought in. There were other parts in terms of like, even her Garmin watch showed her heart rate as this attack was ongoing.

Now, the defense was up. They were barely even giving any information over the last day or so in terms of rebuttal about how Jose Ibarra ended up around that scene. And, of course, he's accused of being a peeping tom as well.

As you look right now, you can see that closing argument. Sheila Ross is doing the prosecution here. Her opening arguments originally were damning because you heard about so much evidence they had, not only from the cameras that they had in the area, but that audio that I referred to.

And, of course, there was a testimony yesterday that talked about the moms sending the text messages, being worried about where Laken Riley was. So many in the community have been impacted by this case. We were there days afterwards and you could feel the pain from that community, this young nursing student running along when she was attacked by someone. Of course, the prosecution believes that was Jose Ibarra, the man who was here illegally. So, so many questions about this case, but this is ongoing right now. I believe we have some of that we can play so you can hear some of these closing arguments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHEILA ROSS, SPECIAL PROSECUTOR: My friend, do me a favor. Show me your hands. My friend, how did you get those injuries? And his first response is that of a monstrously guilty individual. What scratches? You all don't see any scratches. We don't see any scratches.

So, in order to find him not guilty, you would have to disbelieve your own eyes. What scratches, he says. All of those scratches. And there were more scratches than that. Because when Daniela Stewart, those photos are in evidence here, when she photographed him and made him take his shirt off, there are scratches on his back, his back. And you know what that's consistent with? That is consistent with him asphyxiating her being on top of her, compressing her chest and smashing her head in with that rock.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: Yes. Of course, Jim, this is tough to listen to. Laken Riley obviously fought for her life. Now, there are video evidence afterwards of what happened next. And I can remember being out there at the scene a day after this crime occurred. And we were by some of the trash cans when investigators were gathering evidence. They played some of that video as well.

And so you can see from Ring cameras, from surveillance cameras around the area, Jose Ibarra trying to put stuff in dumpsters around that area. And I remember as GBI investigators zero in on several parts of that area.

Now, this was a running trail that a lot of runners in the Georgia area run all the time. And so for an attack to happen out there, this really shake the confidence of all the folks who live in that area. Then there's surveillance cameras have played a key role also showing her running. Now, that we don't believe that, of course, the attack was caught on surveillance, but how do defense attorneys explain that DNA all over Jose Ibarra? Well, they really didn't. And so that part of the defense case really was shattered by the prosecution.

And so as we're watching this, something to remember, this is not a jury trial. This will go to the judge. The judge is really a no nonsense judge. We believe we'll have some sort of decision, of course, before the end of the week. But at the same time, this drama playing out in court, her family in tears as some of this testimony was ongoing, we're all watching this case pretty closely. Jim?

ACOSTA: All right. Ryan Young, thank you very much.

[10:05:00]

Also following up on Capitol Hill this morning, Donald Trump's pick for attorney general, Matt Gaetz, is up on the hill with Vice President elect J.D. Vance as the former congressman fights to stay alive in his bid to be a part of Trump's new cabinet. Gaetz and Vance are set to meet with key Republican senators today while the House Ethics Committee meets this afternoon. That committee is deciding whether or not to release its report on Gaetz.

For his part, President-elect Trump is digging in on his pick for attorney general.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Mr. President, are you reconsidering the nomination of Matt Gaetz?

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: CNN's Manu Raju is up on Capitol Hill for us. Manu, that sums it up right there, Trump is not giving up on Matt Gaetz, but some Republican senators are pushing back and saying this has to go through the process. What are you hearing?

MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right. In fact, a lot of the Republican senators that I've been speaking with want to see what is in this House Ethics report. This investigation has been going on for more than a year about misconduct, alleged misconduct, sexual misconduct as well. We've heard some of these allegations come up over the last several days in particular about Matt Gaetz having sex with a minor.

These are all things that Matt Gaetz has denied. But the senators themselves, Republicans and Democrats alike, are interested in seeing the details of all of this. That's going to undoubtedly be a key part of some of the questioning that will happen behind the scenes and also in the public confirmation hearings, which we expect to occur early next year.

Now, on the Hill at this moment, J.D. Vance is with Matt Gaetz meeting one by one with Republican senators. Gaetz trying to urge Republicans to keep an open mind, give him a shot through this process and give him a chance to rebut some of these allegations. Lindsey Graham, the top Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee at the moment. Next year, Chuck Grassley will be the chairman of the committee, but Graham is still a senior member of the committee just met with them as well.

We do expect some others to meet, including Senator John Kennedy of Louisiana, who I just asked him about this meeting that will occur. He said it will happen later today. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): I don't know what we're going to talk about. They asked me to meet him. I just don't know yet. I don't have an agenda.

REPORTER: What do you want to hear from him? KENNEDY: I'm going to get to know him. I don't know him.

REPORTER: Thanks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And the question ultimately will be what the House Ethics Committee decides to do when it meets this afternoon.

And it's unclear if there will actually be a vote to release this report. It's a ten-member committee divided evenly between Republicans and Democrats. If there is a vote, that would require one Republican to break ranks with Democrats. But the pressure is on, Jim, the speaker of the House, making clear he does not want this report released, contending that it would open up a Pandora's Box, even as there is precedent in the past for former members.

Remember, Matt Gaetz just resigned. For former members to have their reports to come out in the aftermath of their resignation, we'll see ultimately what the committee decides, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. Manu Raju, thank you very much.

Let's talk about the president-elect's pick for education secretary. Linda McMahon is a major Republican donor and a former pro-wrestling executive. She's also a veteran of Trump's first term. She was head of the Small Business Administration at that time.

CNN's Alayna Treene is now -- Trump has repeatedly called for abolishing the Department of Education during the campaign. So, how does that -- I mean, what does that mean for Linda McMahon?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Well, it's also really interesting because, yes, first of all, she is one of Donald Trump's co-transition chairs. As you mentioned, she has a longstanding history with him, served in his first administration. But he has said repeatedly throughout his time on the campaign trail that he wanted to really potentially abolish the Department of Education. And she could really be tasked with overseeing the demise of that department.

I think it was interesting to see what Donald Trump said specifically in his statement last night. There's one key line where he said that we will send education back to the states and Linda will spearhead that effort, kind of, you know, hinting at what may come.

I mean, look, I will say it's going to be very hard to do that. We know that the Department of Education really oversees all of the funding and resources for all public K through 12 schools. It also is in charge of the $1.6 trillion that they have for student loan debts.

And so there's a lot there. But I will argue that she's not exactly, you know, doesn't have really the credentials for Department of Education. She was actually gunning to be the head of the Commerce Department before Howard Lutnik, the other co-transition chair, kind of one out on that. And so it'll be really interesting to see how she tries to limit what the Department of Education does, given that Donald Trump has made very clear he wants to essentially see its demise.

ACOSTA: Well, and, of course, we've heard one of the other picks yesterday naming Dr. Oz, Dr. Mehmet Oz, to head the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. What are we hearing about that?

TREENE: I mean, this to me is also fascinating because it's a very serious position. I mean, the Center for Medicaid and Medicare Services, they oversee all of, you know, federal health care coverage or health insurance coverage, I should say, for 150 million Americans.

[10:10:02]

This was run by Seema Verma in his first administration.

But, look, when it comes down to Mehmet Oz, I really think this is the perfect example of Donald Trump wanting a made for T.V. cabinet. I mean, we saw that with his pick, Sean Duffy and some others, you know, Pete Hegseth, obviously both former Fox News hosts. Mehmet Oz has been a clear defender of Donald Trump on television. He also, we should note, backed Dr. Oz to run for Senate in 2022. That bid failed.

But, really, when I've talked to a lot of people close to Trump, they say they want people who are going to be on TV defending him. They want, quote/unquote, effective communicators to be out there. Dr. Oz is going to be one of those people. Yes, he was -- you know, he's a heart surgeon, but also a big T.V. personality, something that is very appealing to the former president.

ACOSTA: Absolutely. All right, Alayna Treene, thank you very much.

Trump's pick of Dr. Oz to lead the Centers for Medicare Medicaid services means the T.V. physician could end up running an agency that oversees, as Alayna said, overseas health insurance coverage for about 160 million Americans, had a budget of $2.6 trillion last fiscal year.

And CNN Medical Analyst Dr. Jonathan Reiner joins us now. Dr. Reiner is a professor of medicine and surgery at George Washington University, a longtime cardiologist of former Vice President Dick Cheney. Dr. Reiner, great to see you, as always.

I mean, I guess you could call it a cabinet. You could call it a fox den based on some of these picks. But let's talk about Dr. Oz, and what do you make of him leading this very important agency, Medicare and Medicaid Services? I mean, those are the programs for the elderly and for the poor in this country.

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: (INAUDIBLE) qualified for the position. CMS is, as you've already said, a massive agency, and it administers about 22 percent of the entire U.S. budget. And it provides, you know, Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP, the Children's Health Insurance Program that insures kids from poor families, and the affordable care marketplace.

And, typically, it's been run by policy wonks. The rules and the policies that come out of CMS are very complex, very arcane. And, typically, the people who have run it have been specialists in health policy.

Now, Dr. Oz in the first part of his career was a very accomplished heart surgeon at Columbia, an academic heart surgeon, very well regarded, but he has never really had any experience in health policy. And he's just unsuited for, as you said, a position that essentially runs the health insurance of 160 million people. It's basically the largest health insurance company in the world.

ACOSTA: Right. I mean, we should mention this, Dr. Oz became a household name with his talk show that ran for more than a decade, but he also became known for making scientifically dubious claims, excuse me, throughout the years. Let's listen to some of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. MEHMET OZ, FORMER PENNSYLVANIA SENATE CANDIDATE: And now I've got the number one miracle in a bottle to burn your fat. It's raspberry ketone.

What I believe is one of the most important discoveries we've made to help you burn fat faster, green coffee bean extract.

This is what force colon does to your belly fat. Whoa.

I actually do personally believe in the items that I talk about in the show. I passionately study them. I recognize that oftentimes they don't have the scientific muster to present as fact.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Yes. Dr. Reiner, what do you think of some of these claims that he's made over the years?

REINER: Yes, he's probably being a bit polite. Look, he's created a persona and he's become a television personality and he's been very successful at that, but he's not an administrator of a very complex agency. You know, the current administrator, Chiquita Brooks-LaSure, before she became CMS -- she was in charge of CMS, she was deputy director for policy, and before that she was at HHS. And there are some agencies that just require professionals. And the president-elect seems intent on bringing in people from central casting.

But when I get on an airplane, I don't care if the pilot looks, you know, like they've come out of central casting. I just want them to be able to fly the airplane. And CMS has to be flown. It's an essential agency.

ACOSTA: And, Dr. Reiner, I mean, Trump did promise that Dr. Oz would slash spending, saying he's going to cut waste and fraud within our country's most expensive government agency. This is a quote that he put out a statement that he put out. You know, I wonder if that means that that the elderly, that the poor in this country should be concerned about whether or not some of their healthcare services in this country will be cut back.

[10:15:05] REINER: Well, Medicare has always been the third rail of potential cuts and often discussed never happening because it's felt to be basically fatal for any party that tries to do it. What's interesting to me is that Dr. Oz has actually proposed a form of Medicare for all when he was running for office. He proposed basically giving all Americans essentially what would amount to Medicare Advantage, a similar policy that Kamala Harris was pilloried for.

Now, I wonder if, you know, that was known to the future administration before he was nominated, but he has proposed, you know, rather sweeping changes, not popular in conservative ranks. So, we'll have to see what happens.

ACOSTA: Yes, not likely to see that policy come to fruition this time around. Dr. Reiner, thanks, as always, we appreciate it.

Coming up, I'll dig deeper at President-elect Donald Trump's cabinet picks. Democratic Congressman Jason Crow will explain why he is urging the Senate to reject Tulsi Gabbard as director of National Intelligence. That's coming up.

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[10:20:00]

ACOSTA: Another day, another round of Donald Trump's picks facing scrutiny up on Capitol Hill. The newest ones, Republican donor and former pro-wrestling executive Linda McMahon for education secretary, and Dr. Mehmet Oz has been picked to lead the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services.

Joining me now to talk about this is Congressman Jason Crow. He serves on the House Intelligence and Foreign Affairs Committee. Congressman, good to see you this morning. We really appreciate it.

What's your reaction to some of these latest cabinet picks, Linda McMahon at the education department, a department Donald Trump has said he wants to shut down, and Dr. Oz for the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services, which is obviously a very important part of the federal government?

REP. JASON CROW (D-CO): Well, most of these nominations so far, not all of them, but most of them fall into one of three categories. Either they have been nominated to destroy the agencies or departments that they are supposed to lead because of some perceived slight or because of some culture war issue, they have been nominated to line the pockets or to repay political favors to his donors and his loyalists, or they've been nominated to weaponize their agencies to go after Donald Trump's opponents.

So, almost all of them fit into one of those three categories, which should concern every American because the role of government, you know, our job here on Capitol Hill, is to ensure the government works for people. And I'm a good government Democrat, so, you know, I push hard against inefficiencies against, you know, fraud, waste and abuse. But those three categories are very troubling and it's a whole different challenge than what we're used to.

ACOSTA: And I know you almost immediately had some reservations, some concerns about Trump's choice for director of National Intelligence, former Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard. You're on the House Intelligence Committee. What are your thoughts?

CROW: Well, this isn't a policy disagreement. You know, we have policy disagreements all the time. You know, Donald Trump won the election. He's going to be sworn in. He'll be the next president, and I'm going to have all manner of policy disagreements. But there's a few of these nominations that have a deeper challenge, that are more troubling than just policy disagreements, because we have to look at two things, someone's competency and their loyalty.

And there's different ways to be competent as a head of an organization. You could have experience running a large organization, a business, and know organizational structures. You can be a policy expert. There's different models of that. But with Tulsi Gabbard, for example, she has none of these. You know, she's not run large organizations. She's not a policy expert. What she is is somebody with a very long affinity for autocrats and dictators that are adversaries of the United States, somebody who's dealt with conspiracy theories. And then the second is loyalty. You know, I question their loyalty to the Constitution versus their loyalty to adversaries. And, you know, every American should be really concerned about that.

ACOSTA: And you've also been critical of Pete Hegseth saying that the Fox News host is not qualified to be the secretary of defense. Let's listen to what the current defense secretary, Lloyd Austin, has said when asked about Hegseth's comments that women should not serve in combat roles. We'll talk about it on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LLOYD AUSTIN, DEFENSE SECRETARY: I think our women add significant value to the United States military. And we should never change that. And if I had a message, to answer your question, to our women, I would say -- I would tell them that, you know, we need you. We have faith in you. We are appreciative of your service. And you add value to the finest and most lethal fighting force on Earth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: What's your response to that?

CROW: Well, Lloyd Austin is right. Listen, women step up all the time. I've served with women, you know, in the beginning of my career. I was an Army Ranger. I was a paratrooper. I did three combat deployments to Iraq. I served with women. They fought. They sacrificed. Some of them gave their lives for our country. And the notion, the suggestion that they're not qualified, you know, after decades and decades of service and integration of our military, it's just really beyond the pale and just shows that he does not understand how our military works.

And, listen, he's a veteran as well. He's served, but he obviously took something very different away from his service than I did and then many of my service members took away from their service. This is not somebody who belongs as the secretary of defense.

But, listen, there's a larger issue also at play here beyond that very troubling comment and view.

[10:25:04]

And that is, we have 2 million service members, men and women. These are our sons, our daughters, our neighbors, our brothers and sisters. They are right now, as we speak on the frontlines, risking their lives. Every day, the secretary of defense makes life and death decisions. You know, this is not a job for a T.V. personality. This is not an entry level job. You need to have experience and you need to have competency to do this.

ACOSTA: And I do want to ask you while we have a little bit of time left, Congressman, about what President Biden has been doing with respect to the policy in Ukraine. He made another big shift in policy yesterday granting permission to send anti-personnel mines to slow Ukrainian forces. That's just after he gave the green light to Ukraine to use those longer range ATACMS missiles that are made in the U.S. Is this too little too late? Should he be doing this at the end of his administration as Donald Trump is going to be coming into office here in a couple of months from now? What are your thoughts?

CROW: Well, on the authorization to use weapons in Russia, I've agreed with that for a very long time. In fact, I along with a bipartisan coalition of members of Congress have been pushing for that decision eight months ago. It should have been made eight months ago, frankly. In war, time matters a lot. Time is not on the Ukrainian side here. So, this is a decision that I think was long delayed and should have happened earlier.

And on the landmine thing, I disagree with that decision as well. I think it would be setting a dangerous precedent. There's an anti- landmine treaty. These are weapons that United States should be leading to prevent the use of around the world. And I just don't like the idea of that precedent being set here in creating a permission for that.

ACOSTA: So, you think this is a bad idea that the president is doing this, just to make sure I got that?

CROW: I do disagree with that. Yes. I mean, I'm very clear about that. I have pushed against the use of these weapons and I think the United States should be leading to help prohibit the use of these weapons around the world, not enabling it.

ACOSTA: All right. Colorado Democratic Congressman Jason Crow, I always appreciate your time. Thanks so much.

CROW: Thank you.

ACOSTA: All right. We'll be right back. Be right back.

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