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New: Key House Meetings As Fate Of Matt Gaetz Ethics Report Looms; Jose Ibarra Found Guilty Of Killing Georgia Nursing Student; Officials: U.S. To Send Anti-Personnel Mines To Ukraine; Bomb Cyclone Slams Washington State, Parts of Canada. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired November 20, 2024 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:32]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: I'm Jim Sciutto. Thanks so much for joining me today on CNN NEWSROOM.
And let's get right to the news.
At this hour, both sides of Capitol Hill behind me are weighing what to do about President-elect Donald Trump's explosive pick for attorney general, Matt Gaetz.
Currently, the bipartisan House Ethics Committee is behind closed doors discussing next steps in their investigation into Gaetz, including allegations the former Florida congressman had sex with a minor and paid for sex. Gaetz denied those allegations and today made the rounds to Republican senators, pleading his case alongside the Vice President-elect J.D. Vance.
Let's go to our reporters who have been following this closely. Alayna Treene who covers Trump and Annie Grayer on Capitol Hill.
Annie, CNN caught up with the House Ethics Chairman Michael Guest on his way into this meeting. I want to play what he said and get your sense of what he meant on the other side. Have a listen.
(BERGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Is the report actually done at this point?
REP. MICHAEL GUEST (R-MS): The report is not complete.
RAJU: It's not.
GUEST: That's correct.
RAJU: And so, how could you possibly release it if it's not done?
GUEST: That is something that we will be talking about today. And that's another reason I have some reservations about releasing any unfinished work product.
RAJU: How far would you say it is from its completion? GUEST: It has not gone through the review process.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: All right.
So, Annie, what is the review process? And when he says its not complete, does that mean they're conducting further investigation of Gaetz?
ANNIE GRAYER, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Well, this committee, Jim, really is a black box. These procedures are very secretive by design. So what steps are actually left for this report to be finalized are unclear but what the chairman is really saying here is he is delaying the release of this report, that he does not think it's ready for it to come out.
Of course, there is a lot of pressure to get this report out, both on the Senate side and in the house. So it's really -- it's really just still an open question what is going to happen with this report.
Of course, the members of the committee are meeting behind closed doors right behind me discussing this very subject. So we're going to have to see what happens out of this meeting.
SCIUTTO: Alayna, very publicly behind his pick of Gaetz you hear that from other Republicans, including the vice president elect and that he is a top priority in fact, for the president, Gaetz in particular. Behind closed doors however, based on your reporting is Trump confident he's going to get this pick through?
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: I wouldn't say he's confident. I'll say this: it's very clear that Donald Trump and his team recognize that Gaetz doesn't have great chances when it comes to the Senate confirmation process. That's why you've seen Donald Trump personally calling up senators who are going to be involved in that process and really lobbying them to get behind Gaetz.
And I think a thing that's very interesting that is notable for this conversation is that, you know, there are several controversial potential nominees or selections that Donald Trump has made for cabinet positions. People like Pete Hegseth, Tulsi Gabbard, RFK Jr., many of them who Donald Trump also recognizes they might have a tough time when it comes to the Senate confirmation process.
However, Matt Gaetz from my conversations with those close to the former president, now president elect, is that he is his number one priority. We know and we've reported this repeatedly, that attorney general is the most important role to Donald Trump.
And if he's going to have to sacrifice, I think there's a lot of questions -- other people arguing. Could Gaetz be the one he sacrifices to get his other nominees through? That is not the conversation right now. If he's going to have to sacrifice anyone, it would not be Matt Gaetz because he is so firmly behind wanting him in that role. And the reason he wants him specifically in that role is because he
really wants a disrupter. It's also loyalty. We've talked about that a lot, but he wants someone who really will shake things up at the Department of Justice, and he thinks Matt Gaetz is the only person who will do that.
SCIUTTO: So, Annie, it's not necessarily his choice. I mean, the Senate's got to confirm, unless they try to sneak it through in a recess appointment here.
When you speak to Republican senators, I mean, are Vance and Gaetz making any headway, or. I mean, does -- does Trump have the votes for Gaetz?
GRAYER: Really unclear if Trump has the votes but we know that Gaetz is trying to make the case to senators that he's meeting with, essentially saying, give him a chance.
[15:05:03]
Let this process play out. He wants senators to keep an open mind and, you know, a lot of senators want to see this report. They want there to be an investigation. They want there to be a confirmation process.
But no one is saying that this is going to be easy. In fact, many admit it's a very much an uphill climb for Gaetz. But he's going to continue making his case to senators directly. And we know that Donald Trump is talking to senators about this, too.
Take a listen to what Senator Susan Collins had to say about all of this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (D-ME): I was shocked by the nomination, given the many allegations, but that's why its important that the Senate go through its process of making sure that we have a background check that we have a Senate investigation which involves extensive interviews and questionnaires, and then a public hearing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRAYER: So, Collins is just going to be one of the senators that we're watching, as you can see, members from the ethics committee are coming out as we're live with you right now, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Ana Grayer out there, we'll see how else you hear. Alayna Treene, thanks so much.
So as Gaetz fights for his political life in the face of these quite remarkable allegations, Trump is continuing to fill his cabinet. His most recent pick is set to run a department which Trump pledged on the campaign trail to abolish. That is Linda McMahon, his transition co- chair, a major GOP donor and perhaps most famously former WWE executive who we should note has no teaching experience. She's been nominated as secretary of education. So what does this mean for education in this country? Could Trump
actually eliminate the department?
John Valant is with me now to discuss. He's the director of the Brown Center on education policy at Brookings.
Good to have you on. Thanks so much for taking the time.
JON VALANT, DIRECTOR, BROWN CENTER ON EDUCATION POLICY, BROOKINGS: Nice to be here, Jim.
SCIUTTO: So here's what Trump said specifically about the Department of Education on the campaign trail. Have a listen. I want to get your thoughts on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: One other thing I'll be doing very early in the administration is closing up the Department of Education in Washington, D.C., and sending all education and education work and needs back to the states.
And I will shut down the federal Department of Education, and we will move everything back to the states where it belongs.
You know, I'm going to take the Department of Education, close it in Washington, let the states run their own education.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: And in fact, states already really do run the vast majority of education decisions, budget, et cetera. As I understand it, to close the Department of Education would require an act of Congress. So can Trump actually accomplish that campaign pledge?
VALANT: It is very unclear how he would do that. So to truly close the department, as you said, it would require an act of Congress and would be subject to a Senate filibuster, too. And there's just no way to get to 60 votes in the Senate, because no Democrats would be in favor of the idea of shutting down the department.
But even beyond that, there actually would be a lot of opposition major restructuring involving the department. And the reason for that is that a lot of the programs that the U.S. Department of Education administers are programs like Title One, which gives funds to students in poverty and those programs are really popular with Republicans who represent areas that have a lot of poverty and need those resources. So it's really very unlikely.
SCIUTTO: It's a common case, right, is it not, where the big picture, say, the department is attacked and he's like, oh yeah, I hate that kind of stuff. Then when you remind folks, well, what about this? For instance, aid to children, to students in poverty, they actually like it as do the states, as do the Republican state representatives.
So let me ask you this, though, about the social issues involved in this, because Trump has also outlined plans in his agenda 47 for quite significant schools, prayer in schools, ending anything involving critical race theory, credentialing, creating a credentialing body to certify teachers to, quote, embrace patriotic values and support the American way of life. I mean, also to end tenure laws.
Given again that the vast majority of power in terms of how education is delivered resides already in the states, can he accomplish any of those goals very, very few of them.
So, curriculum is very much not part of the federal government's role in education. That that happens at the state level. It happens at the local level. And so if parents, if they're frustrated about what their kids are learning in math class or they don't like the social studies curriculum, it is very unlikely that the federal government had much, if anything, to do with that. And it's actually written into federal law that the federal government won't use curriculum, and to sort of withhold funds to schools that don't teach the way they want to.
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So that part is very unclear now where they could lean in a bit when it comes to some of the culture war battles, is it's very possible that they would issue some regulations that pull back some protections that the Biden administration offered to LGBTQ students. So the Biden administration extended some protections that had existed based on sex based discrimination to also cover gender identity and to cover sexual orientation. And it's very likely that that would be pulled back at some point during this.
SCIUTTO: That's under Title Nine, as I understand it but there are also proposals to change how the department define sexual harassment and assault. What's the motivation behind that?
VALANT: So that -- that too is part of Title Nine. And when it comes to Title Nine and the way that the department has interpreted Title Nine, we've sort of been in this place where we go back and forth as we move from Democratic to Republican to Democratic administrations, and what is very likely that what we'll see from the Trump administration is that they will have stricter definitions of what constitutes sexual harassment and assault and will be maybe more attentive to the rights of the accused as opposed to the sort of erring in the direction of the rights of the victim.
SCIUTTO: Let's talk about the one of the social aspects of this or the cultural war aspects of this. And that is Christian curricula and this week, for instance, Texas officials, they backed a new curricula that would incorporate Christian lessons from the bible as early as kindergarten. You already see this effort. I believe it was in Oklahoma to to have the bible in schools happen to be a Trump bible, by the way.
I mean, are we seeing, given that still the majority of power resides in the states, are we going to see public schools diverge as we see states diverge on so many issues where a public school experience in a red state will be quite different from a public school experience in a blue state?
VALANT: So that is happening. And that's happening when it comes to religion in schools and a lot of other issues where were starting to see more of a difference between what the experiences of being in a public school in a blue state versus a red state then we have historically.
Now as you mentioned, it's not just Texas. It's Oklahoma, it's Louisiana, and it's a lot of states that are kind of playing around in trying to feel what exactly are the legal boundaries when it comes to religion in schools?
I wouldn't expect too much action from the Trump administration, from the federal level, because, again, this is more about what states and localities do. But what is possible is that they might push for some private school choice funds and really a tax credit scholarship program as part of a bigger tax bill and its possible that some of those funds, which would come from the government, could then be used in religious, private schools.
SCIUTTO: Question. I mean, how popular are vouchers at this point? Because we did see some state referenda this cycle, even with Republican successes where even in red states, a lot of those voucher initiatives failed because in those states, folks, they want money for public schools or more money to go to public schools and not be taken away.
VALANT: That's exactly right. And so, three states had some form of school choice on their ballot, and they were Nebraska, Kentucky and Colorado. And they looked different from state to state as far as what exactly voters were voting on.
But in all three states, they voted no. They voted down the school, the school choice policy. And in Nebraska and Kentucky, they resoundingly voted no on that school choice proposal at the same time and on the same ballot. That they resoundingly voted in. Donald Trump.
And so, you had a lot of Republican voters who were voting no on these private school choice programs, because they are just fundamentally unpopular, whenever they're up for votes.
SCIUTTO: Yeah, notable. And folks can make decisions. They can distinguish on their ballots. We see in a lot of cases.
All right, to college education because Republicans, they went after college campuses again on what they call wokeness, DEI initiatives, antisemitism, successfully pushed out several Ivy League presidents in the midst of the anti-Israel war protests. Trump promised GOP Jewish donors that in his first week in office, he'd threatened to revoke accreditations and taxpayer funds for colleges that don't crack down on antisemitism.
What does he mean, exactly by cracking down on antisemitism and can he do that? Can he revoke those financial -- those financial benefits?
VALANT: So, I think what exactly he means is still unclear. Now, the way this is most likely to come up is there is an office within the Department of Education called the office for civil rights and different administrations have different priorities when it comes to what that office does.
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And what we are very likely to see is a Trump administration focus that office's efforts especially on issues related to antisemitism on college campuses and some issues potentially again related to gender and sexual orientation that have sort of played out differently under the Biden administration.
SCIUTTO: Listen, these are big proposed changes. I mean, two questions as to, well, how big they are and two, how many can you get through. But certainly worth keeping up the conversation.
Jon Valant, thanks so much for joining.
VALANT: Thanks, Jim.
SCIUTTO: We are following a developing story coming out of the state of Georgia where a judge has now sentenced Jose Ibarra to life in prison without parole for the murder of Laken Riley. Riley, you may remember, was a 22-year-old nursing student at Augusta University, reported missing in February after she didn't return from a run at a different school, the University of Georgia in Athens.
Authorities say that Ibarra, an undocumented immigrant from Venezuela, struck her in the head with a rock and choked her. He requested a bench trial, meaning the verdict was decided by a judge rather than a jury. Riley's father had requested her death not be politicized, but Ibarra's migrant status made the case very much a flashpoint in the U.S. election.
It came to light he had already been arrested in 2022 after entering the U.S. illegally. Here's the moment the judge announced the verdict earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
H. PATRICK HAGGARD, ATHENS-CLARKE COUNTY SUPERIOR COURT JUDGE: I will now announce the verdict, in the state of Georgia versus Jose Antonio Ibarra, case SU24 CR0323.
Count one, malice murder, I find the defendant guilty. Count two, felony murder, I find the defendant guilty. Count three, felony murder, I find the defendant guilty. Count four, felony murder, I find the defendant guilty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: You could hear the sobs, the reactions to that verdict. That was -- as it was read by the judge.
CNN's Rafael Romo has been in the court all day.
Tell us about the reactions as this played out.
RAFAEL ROMO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the reaction was a collective sigh of relief, Jim. It was not really a big surprise when Superior Court Judge H. Patrick Haggard sentenced Venezuelan national Diego Ibarra -- Jose Antonio Ibarra, I should say, to life in prison without the possibility of parole, but we heard people that were relieved to hear that verdict when the judge announced that. The judge had earlier issued a guilty verdict on all ten counts, the defendant was facing, including malice murder, felony murder and kidnapping with bodily injury.
The verdict was announced in a completely packed courtroom. The family and friends of Laken Riley filled four of the eight rows available inside.
Before reading the verdict, Judge Haggard made two observations. One the closing statement by special prosecutor Ross was very powerful, he said, and two, he took into account the defenses request that he set aside his emotions before issuing a verdict. The special prosecutor said in fighting her attacker, the victim left more than enough evidence to convict him.
We also heard an emotional statement by Laken Riley's mother, Allyson Phillips. Let's take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALLYSON PHILLIPS, LAKEN RILEY'S MOTHER: There's no end to the pain and suffering that he inflicted on our family and our friends. I'm asking you to please give this monster life without any chance of parole, so that he never gets the chance to hurt anyone else, ever again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMO: And, Jim, the prosecution -- the prosecution rested its case on this morning after calling 25 witnesses over three days. The evidence against Ibarra, including DNA of the suspect linking him to the victim. Video showing the suspect near the wooded area where Laken Riley was killed. Physical evidence in the form of a cup, a Styrofoam cup found near the trail and hat the suspect wore, and digital evidence collected from phone records.
On the other hand, the defense only called three witnesses to the stand and argued the evidence against Ibarra was circumstantial -- Jim.
SCIUTTO: Rafael Romo, thanks so much.
So for more on the verdict, I want to bring in CNN legal analyst Joey Jackson.
Joey, good to have you here.
I want to begin on the evidence, if I can first, and I want to get to your larger thoughts about the case. But how important was the role of scientific and technological evidence with no eyewitnesses? And in your view, that it's still the evidence before the judge proved the case?
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yeah. Jim, good to be with you.
The answer to your question is huge. Very rarely will you have a case where you have a direct eyewitness who can describe chapter and verse what occurred. As a result of that police and law enforcement in general, and prosecutors have to prove their case in other ways.
[15:20:02]
Here, they did so. Like, what? DNA evidence which was compelling as to him, that is Mr. Ibarra being at the scene. Certainly, the DNA evidence on his jacket, which he discarded, the hair fibers on his jacket, which he discarded. The gloves that he had, the print he left on her phone to impede her from calling 911.
In addition to the DNA under the fingernails, they had her smartphone, Jim, which would indicate the time she stopped running on the trail. It showed when she was dragged into the woods. It showed his phone being next to hers.
So the issue in terms of science and technology was astounding and certainly went to prove the case. And I think in terms of the verdict, the judge absolutely got it right. There was just so much evidence and build up.
Last point, Jim, on this, and that's this -- the defense kept arguing that, hey, the evidence is circumstantial. Circumstantial evidence is not direct circumstances would suggest. Right?
If I came in here to speak to you when I came in here, it was completely dry out. When I leave the building, it's wet, but it's not raining. You can conclude it rained.
That was the case here. I think the judge did what was necessary and appropriate with respect to finding him guilty, and with regard to the sentence as well.
SCIUTTO: Some folks are questioning why the death penalty was not on the table for this case. The judge, in addition to deciding the guilty verdict, later sentenced him to a life sentence without parole, as we mentioned. Do you believe the sentence fits the crime?
JACKSON: So you know, Jim, I think that you know everyone might vary on that question. People's notions of justice might differ from depending upon who you ask. From my perspective, if there was ever a case where the death penalty might have been pursued, this would have been that very case. Some might oppose that because they don't believe in a death penalty, everyone has their own opinions.
The reality, though, is that, you know, listen, it's life without parole. It's a couple of life sentences in addition to other years being somewhat symbolic. Some would argue that that's not enough, but certainly I think the fact that he will not be Mr. Ibarra on the streets again to inflict any punishment on anyone else, that is certainly appropriate. And that is certainly justice.
SCIUTTO: Before we go, given that he was in the country undocumented illegally, also had a previous conviction, I believe, should he been free in the first place?
JACKSON: Yeah, that's the greatest question of all. And I think that this is a teachable moment with regard to what law enforcement can do, what the country can do, what elected leadership can do in terms of preservation and the safety of the public.
When you have an opportunity to get someone off the streets and their opportunities missed, either because they're not held long enough for ICE agents to otherwise come and catch up with them, that's a problem. And I think that's in large measure why this was used as a lightning rod in the campaign in terms of border security and what can be done moving forward to protect the American public.
SCIUTTO: Even though the family, as I noted earlier, did not want this case to be politicized, they were very much focused on the loss of their -- of their daughter.
Joey Jackson, thanks so much.
JACKSON: Thanks, Jim.
Still to come, Western embassies in the Ukrainian capital Kyiv closed today after the U.S. received specific information of a potential significant Russian air attack. We're going to be live in Kyiv.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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SCIUTTO: Another potentially significant shift in America's policy towards Ukraine today, the Biden administration approved the shipment of anti-personnel mines to be used in the eastern part of the country to defend against the ongoing Russian invasion there.
The U.S. Defense Department also announced it will be sending another $275 million in military assistance to Ukraine. That package will include ammunition for the HIMARS system as well as for artillery and anti-tank weapons.
CNN's Oren Liebermann is at the Pentagon.
Oren, can you explain the decision here to allow the use of anti- personnel mines? These are, of course hugely controversial and war around the plant. A lot of countries have banned them, in part because they last long after the battles, right? And you know civilians will run into them and be injured or killed.
So what was the decision making here?
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: And you're right to point out that more than 150 countries have banned anti-personnel mines because of the indiscriminate way they can kill civilians and how they can remain active and dangerous and deadly long after the conflict in which they were intended to be used.
But the U.S. and the Biden administration looked at the situation on the ground, saw the advances Russians were making in the east of Ukraine at tremendous cost, slow gradual grinding advances but they're pushing forward nonetheless and slowly wearing down and breaking down Ukraine's defensive lines.
Ukraine has asked for anti-personnel mines to slow those advances, and the Biden administration changed effectively. It's long standing policy and agreed within the last few days here or perhaps the last couple of weeks to grant that request and send anti-personnel mines.
It's worth noting that back in the summer of 2022, so several months after this war had started, the administration said, look, we're essentially getting out of the business of landmines. We're not going to store them, make them produce them, export them, with the exception of the Korean peninsula. So, a fairly major reversal here.
And then, Jim, I'll just point out one more thing, Ukraine itself is a signatory to the Ottawa Treaty, which bans the use of landmines. But obviously, the situation they're facing, the war with Russia has clearly led them to reconsider that.
SCIUTTO: No question. Oren Liebermann at the Pentagon, appreciate it.
Well, the U.S. State Department has just announced it will reopen the U.S. embassy in the capital, Kyiv, tomorrow. This after it shut it down, quite a rare step on Wednesday, the first time since the war began that the embassy was closed. The reason, specific information of a potential significant air assault.
The Greek, Spanish and Italian embassies also closed for security reasons.
Nick Paton Walsh is in Kyiv.
Nick, have you seen evidence of this incoming air assault? What more do we know about the threat?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, I mean, it's not question about there being a threat here, Jim, this place has been hit for the last two months with intense air raids. Just the they've had almost since the beginning of the war. So, yes, certainly today many people woke up in Kyiv and around Ukraine, wondering quite why the U.S. embassy, whose information about this war was pretty good in terms of when the invasion began and has been pretty consistent throughout, had decided for the first time since they relocated at the start of the war to close their doors, albeit for a day.
Now, that caused a lot of concern around here, and you may see there's other NATO members joining alongside with them, limiting their operations or closing altogether as the day went on, there emerged to have been 1 or 2 Telegram messages that purported to be warnings from Ukrainian intelligence suggesting a mass scale attack against Kyiv and that was seized upon by the Ukrainian government to say, hey, listen everyone, you know, let's bring the temperature down on this a little.
But be in no doubt at all. It's not as though Kyiv is suddenly safe from aerial assault, as they've seen over the last two months. I think you have to ask the question here.
[15:30:02]
Was it these fake Telegram messages which the Ukrainian government has derided as being poorly spelled, poorly laid out, kind of obvious fakes that caused the State Department to make this decision? They didn't elaborate as to what the information behind that call was.
But certainly, I think you can imagine they might require a slightly higher bar of evidence than a message on telegram.
All the same, it's raised deep concerns here, though, as to what exactly is the nature going to be of Russia's response to the firing supplied by the U.S. to Ukraine and hitting Russian targets? Now it's clear and also reports suggesting that British Storm Shadows may indeed have been used inside Kursk recently as well. In the last 24 hours.
That's a sea change in the war here, certainly, and I think there are many worried if Kyiv is going to be response. Air defense can still function here, certainly. But, you know, if they're overwhelmed, that could be deeply problematic, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Nick, I was speaking to a Ukrainian in Washington from Kyiv just last night who described the mood in terms of public support for the war. And some of this is in polling, which has shown an increasing number of Ukrainians who want to see a negotiated end to the war on Ukraine's terms, but still a negotiated end. And you've been going there a lot of times.
Do you sense in your conversations that people are running out of, I guess, energy, just exhausted by this and the losses from the war?
WALSH: Yeah, I think Ukraine is running out of people. I mean, it's horrific in the central square in Maidan here to see the sea of flags planted there almost uncountable each one representing a loved one who died in the fighting. And that's just a tiny fraction of Ukraine's losses.
So the manpower issue is acute, and that's not just a case of numbers of people on charts. That's empty chairs in homes across the country. And so, you know I think there's been an expectation potentially that Ukraine would be able to sustain the indefinite effort that the west has promised in its support. And that's just simply not practical here.
But the question is not whether people want peace. It's the nature of the peace that they want.
I spoke to a young girl called Anya down in that square, planting a flag for her lost father, who died on October the 28th, but spent five months in a coma from his battlefield injuries. She said, look, you know, we want peace. We want this to stop, but we don't want Russia as part of our lives.
And so I think its quite easy to say, hey why don't we just stop the fighting? But the broader concern is exactly what the nature of the peace is going to be. I was speaking to a senior presidential adviser here who said to me, look, you know, you have to understand Putin only understands strength and if you come to a negotiating table saying, okay, we're tired of supporting Ukraine, Ukraine is tired of fighting. What can you give us? He will just push and keep going.
And we've seen, Jim, you know, you've seen this too. Historically, Russia's negotiating history is they used the diplomatic process often as a means to pause or allow them to pursue their military means with more vigor -- Jim.
SCIUTTO: That was certainly the case with the Minsk agreements prior, well, following the first invasion in 2014.
Nick Paton Walsh, please be safe over there.
Still to come, in the days following Trump's reelection, searches for a Korean feminist movement called 4B surged on Google and across social media. What does 4B stand for? What's behind all this? We'll explain after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:36:48]
SCIUTTO: As Donald Trump, a found liable for sexual abuse who credits himself for overturning Roe v. Wade and is now included in his cabinet, people accused of sexual misconduct returns to the Oval Office, some women are encouraging each other to swear off men entirely as a form of protest. In the days following Trump's reelection, searches for a Korean feminist movement surged on Google and on social media in this country.
The 4B movement, as its known, B being the shorthand for "no" in Korean encourages women to practice these four no's -- no sex, no dating, no marrying, and no having children with men.
Kelsey Ables is a Washington Post reporter based in Seoul, South Korea. She co-wrote a piece about that surge in the movement here in the United States.
Kelsey, thanks so much for joining me.
First, I want to go back to the roots here. Can you explain how it started in South Korea?
KELSEY ABLES, SEOUL REPORTER, WASHINGTON POST: Yes, absolutely. Thanks so much for having me on, Jim. It's great to be here. So the 4B movement is usually traced back to the 2010s in South Korea.
There was a kind of renewed surge in discussion about gender inequality and feminism at that time. It was sparked by a few things, in part by a 2016 murder of a young woman in the Gangnam, in a bathroom in Gangnam, a kind of bustling district of Seoul and her murder was by a man who later said that he felt ignored by women and that was kind of a motive for it. So, that kind of prompted this frustration and online discussion that kind of renewed this conversation about gender inequality in Seoul.
And around that same time, the Escape the Corset movement emerged, which was this movement where women were dressing androgynously. They were shattering makeup palettes on social media in this kind of protest against gender expectations. And then those kind of led into the 2018 #metoo movement, which then spilled over into South Korea.
And experts that we spoke to for our reporting said that this movement can kind of be seen as an offshoot of any of those kind of 2010's feminist movements in South Korea.
So tell me about the appeal -- appeal here in the U.S. because I understand you spoke to a 21 year old from Georgia who said she got interested in the movement about a year ago. Can you tell us why she and others that you spoke to in this country have been drawn to it?
ABLES: Yeah. So, you know, I think that the people that I've spoken with have kind of expressed this feeling of a lack of agency, a lack of kind of a sense that their body is their own at this time it's, you know, a reaction to the election where reproductive freedoms were very much on the ballot in some places, literally on the ballot in some states.
But I think for a lot of the women that we spoke to and women in the United States, you know, there was this sense that there was one candidate who was openly, really appealing to men or trying to reach young men, which was Trump. And then, you know, Harris kind of had this campaign about reproductive freedoms and kind of trying to re- instill reproductive freedoms after the overturn of Roe versus Wade.
So throughout the reporting process, you know, a lot of the women kind of said that they really felt that this was a way of kind of showing the men in their worlds, the men who they felt like were voting for kind of conservative leaning candidates who maybe had opposed abortion previously -- this was a way of saying, you know, the actions that you've taken to vote for these people who they feel do not support reproductive freedoms have consequences. That was actually what a woman in Georgia told me.
[15:40:00]
And you know, the sense that, like when there is kind of very few avenues left to feel a sense of bodily autonomy, these women are saying, you know, this is a way of asserting that, you know, their bodies are their own.
And I think it's kind of compounded by the fact that after this election, there's the sense that this country cannot elect a female president. This is kind of a repeat a loss, you know, with Trump winning against another female candidate. And so I think for a lot of women, you know, Harris's loss is a lot more than a loss of a candidate, but a loss of a lot more than that SCIUTTO: A lot of issues tied into it. I mean, another one. I mean, South Korea currently has the worlds lowest birth rate, something the South Korean president has blamed on radical feminism. Of course, you have some in this country talking about a similar trend here. Elon Musk, among them, of course, close to Trump.
I mean, do you see a similar dynamic in terms of how, you know, the kind of cultural -- cultural war forces are behind it?
ABLES: Yeah. You know, its interesting. I mean, I think that it's important to know that, you know, 4B is a pretty fringe movement in Korea. I mean, Korea is a place where feminism on its own is a polarizing subject, let alone, you know, this kind of more extreme movement.
So I think when we're talking about the birthrate, what we're really talking about is issues that exist kind of beyond these kinds of choices. It's more an issue of gender inequality in pay, the kinds of ways women are treated when they return to the workplace after having children. The high cost of housing, the kind of cost of living in big cities like Seoul.
And so I think that that kind of question is a little bit maybe separate from the 4B movement. But at the same time, certainly there are parallels between these two countries. And I think that the kind of emergence of this movement in the U.S., which has existed in Korea for quite some time is a sign of some similarities for sure, the experts that I spoke to for this story kind of trace it to in Korea, more of an economic inequality between men and women.
And sort of opportunities for men that do not exist for women or kind of the pay gap in Seoul, whereas in the U.S., they kind of say it tends to be more politically motivated and more about sort of the kind of political differences between men and women.
And that kind of increased gap that we hear a lot of conversation about these days where, you know, a lot of men are kind of voting for more conservative candidates, whereas women tend to fall on the other side of that.
SCIUTTO: In a lot of the data, right, where young men and young women are going politically.
Kelsey Ables, thanks so much for joining.
ABLES: I'm sorry, Jim, could you repeat that?
SCIUTTO: No, I just I was saying you see this in a lot of the political data, young men going one way, young women going another way politically. But I just want to say thanks so much for joining. I appreciate your time/
ABLES: Yes. Thank you so much for having me.
SCIUTTO: Yeah. We do have breaking news now on our top story. The House Ethics panel has officially concluded its meeting on its report into matt Gaetz and allegations of sexual misconduct. They met for roughly two hours.
Annie Grayer is back with us for an update.
So, Annie, no agreement on whether to release the report?
GRAYER: That's what the chairman of the committee, Michael Guest, told us as he was leaving. He said, quote, there was not an agreement by the committee to release the report now, he didn't answer my follow up questions on if that meant the committee did take a formal vote or not on whether to release it. But he is -- the only message he was giving was that there was not agreement in that room.
Members met for sides are going to go back to their corners, figure out their next move. I mean, Democrats absolutely want this report to be released. Republicans are signaling now that they do not.
And there is a lot of pressure and a lot of eyes on what happens to this report. Of course, the Senate really wants this report, and Senate Judiciary has even requested it as part of their investigation for Matt Gaetz's confirmation to be Trump's attorney general.
So this meeting is kind of now going to kick off a whole new slew of questions that we are going to have to try and find the answers to.
TAPPER: We'll see what the final decision is. Annie Grayer, thanks so much.
Still to come, the bomb cyclone, as its known hammering the northwest of the U.S. and parts of Canada -- Canada. The damage it's caused so far and where its headed next. That's coming up.
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SCIUTTO: At least two people are dead, hundreds of thousands without power in the northwest U.S. and parts of Canada. This comes after a once in a decade bomb cyclone as its known slammed through the West Coast late Tuesday. As if that weren't enough, a new threat from the storm is now on the horizon.
CNN's meteorologist Chad Myers is following the latest for us from Atlanta.
Chad, I know we've talked about this before. Can you define a bomb cyclone first and then tell us -- first of all, it looks very big on that screen next to you. Tell us how it works.
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yeah. Well, it is a low pressure center that gets deeper, gets lower by 24 millibars in 24 hours. This one was actually closer to 57 millibars in 24 hours. So it was a double bomb. This was really quite the storm. The good news is it never really made landfall as the center of the
eye. This would have been a category three Atlantic hurricane wind event had it come on land. Now, we still had a lot of wind, winds over 100 miles per hour in places, less gusts. But what a -- what an amazing looking storm here.
Now, we have talked about rapidly intensifying hurricanes. I think we probably talked about that ten times, this year already. That's what -- this is a rapidly intensifying low pressure center, just a different process. We're not talking about a warm core and a hurricane. This is a cold storm making somewhere in the neighborhood of about I would say 12 feet of snow in some of the higher elevations and making winds 77 miles per hour there at Mount Rainier.
It's an atmospheric river combining with that, we talked about this before, too. We talk about Honolulu and we talk about it. This is '80s, '90s and 2000s, the pineapple express. Well, when you take that moisture that is around Honolulu all the time and you push it onshore in the Pacific Northwest, you're going to get rain and you're going to get snow, and you're going to get a lot of it.
That is a stream of humidity coming onshore, making all of that rain and all of that snow. And there will be spots with 20 inches of rain. There will be spots with 15 feet of snow.
SCIUTTO: I didn't know that's why it rained so much in the northwest I learned something.
All right. There's a new study out that says that every hurricane this season has been turbocharged, stronger than usual due to human caused climate change. Tell us why exactly is this about warm water? They're close to the shoreline.
MYERS: It makes absolutely -- not even close to the shoreline. It was two, three, four degrees Fahrenheit, warmer than it should have been all year long. The gulf, the Atlantic, the Caribbean. So when you put a storm that water and you put it in 87 degree water, it's like putting, you know, better gas in your car.
So, 2024, one of the warmest years in the Atlantic. Of course, 11 of the hurricanes got stronger than they should have been because of that warmer water.
So we take a look at it where it was, how much warmer it was than it should have been. And we can say that lets just go to Helene, probably the most memorable for the U.S. should have been about one, I would say. What does it say? 124 but it was 140.
The thing I tell you talk about Milton.
[15:50:00]
Milton was a big storm as well. This thing went from 50 miles per hour, all the way up to 180 miles per hour just 36 hours later, just an amazing rapid intensification. Bomb cyclone, really, just a different name rapid intensification storm. SCIUTTO: Right, and same causes behind it.
Chad Myers, thanks so much.
MYERS: You're welcome.
SCIUTTO: We'll be right back with more.
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SCIUTTO: The late One Direction pop star Liam Payne was laid to rest earlier today in England. Payne's former band mates were seen arriving at Saint Mary's Church in Amersham, just northwest of London. The singer died last month, staying at a hotel in Argentina. Police say drugs and alcohol were found in his system.
Here's CNN's Salma Abdelaziz.
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SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Liam Payne's casket arrives at this 13th century church in the English countryside for a private funeral. His heartbroken parents brought to tears as they bid farewell far too soon.
His former band mates, friends and loved ones, arriving one by one to sleepy Amersham where fans, some still in shock, had gathered to pay their respects.
VICTORIA, ONE DIRECTION FAN: I was very upset. It sort of shook me and I've grown up with him since I was about 12.
ABDELAZIZ: The details of the ceremony were a tightly held secret, but the media cordoned area across from the venue.
Liam Payne's small, closed funeral stands in stark contrast to his very public life as a global pop star with mega fame.
At just 16 years old, Payne took the music world by storm, becoming a founding member of One Direction, a band formed on the reality TV show "The X Factor".
The group turned global phenomenon sold more than 70 million records. Their songs streamed billions of times online. They toured the world, building a massive fan base with hits like "That's What Makes You Beautiful".
But childhood fame had a cost and Payne spoke out about the consequences on his mental health.
LIAM PAYNE, POP STAR: That level of loneliness and people getting into you every day, getting into you every day like I say, just every so often, you're like, when will this end?
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You know, and then like, that's -- that's almost nearly killed me a couple of times.
ABDELAZIZ: His death at age 31 after a tragic accident, a fall from a hotel balcony. Investigators found his body riddled with alcohol and drugs shocked millions. As the funeral drew to a close, a touching moment, music mogul Simon Cowell, the man who brought Payne into the limelight, comforting his parents, mourning the indelible mark left on the hearts of so many.
Salma Abdelaziz, CNN, Amersham.
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SCIUTTO: Our thoughts to his family there.
Well, before we go today, President Joe Biden turns 82 today. He has no public events on his schedule, but is raking in some well-wishes from Democrats. Last year, he said he was running out of space for candles on his birthday cake. This year, make room for one more.
Our happy birthday wishes to the president.
Thanks so much for joining me today. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington.
"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.
