Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Intel Committee Chair: China Cyberattack Worst Telecom Attack In U.S. History; Klobuchar Calls For FBI Background Checks On Trump Nominees; Menendez Brothers Set To Appear In Court For First Time In 28 Years. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired November 24, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): But one of the foods Dr. Hall doesn't expect will drive him to overeat.

How is that ultra-processed?

SARA TURNER, DIETICIAN, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: It is all based on the ingredients. So the eggs that we used in that omelet, the egg whites were our liquid egg product, so it has ingredients in it that make it ultra-processed, it is not just eggs.

So, our yogurts, the pancake syrup that was in the yogurt, those all have ultra-processed ingredients in terms of added flavors, added sweeteners.

TIRRELL: The next day Sam would switch to meals that were more energy dense and hyper palatable. The ones expected to lead to overeating.

TURNER: So you can see that these are all foods that are ultra- processed, and you can see that the volume compared to this is quite different as well.

TIRRELL: Wow, that is really illustrative. I mean, just looking you need two trays of food for this one and one tray of food for this next diet. When you're getting the same number, you're offering at least the same number of calories.

TURNER: Correct. Yes.

TIRRELL: Once a week, Sam spends a full day sealed in this metabolic chamber.

Do you know what they're measuring in there?

SAM: I think they're measuring how much o2 I consume and how much carbon dioxide I release.

TIRRELL: The air he breathes in and out, can tell researchers how many calories he is burning and whether they're coming from carbs or fat, all to help understand what ultra-processed foods really do to our bodies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By understanding how the food environment actually does shape our metabolic health, we hope to basically improve the food supply in the future.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Meg Tirrell, thank you so much.

[15:01:40]

Hello again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me this Sunday. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. All right, we start in Washington where there are growing concerns about a sprawling and sophisticated Chinese hacking operation. The US Senate Intelligence Committee Chair Mark Warner going so far as to call it the worst telecom hack in the nation's history.

People briefed on the matter tell CNN that Chinese hackers have been hacking, tracking phone calls and reading text messages and even listening to the conversations for some of the most senior figures in both the Democratic and Republican Parties, even Donald Trump and JD Vance were targeted.

What remains unclear is exactly what intelligence was gathered during these hacks. An all-senators briefing on the situation is scheduled for December 4th.

CNN's cybersecurity reporter, Sean Lyngaas is tracking the latest details live from Washington. Sean, what more are you learning about all of this?

SEAN LYNGAAS, CNN CYBERSECURITY REPORTER: Well, Fredricka, this has been a five-alarm fire since it started -- since we learned about it several weeks ago. We've been chasing this story along with every other major outlet, but let's be honest, this is a feat of espionage that the US government would be envious of.

You know, its fair game -- considered fair game to go after political targets, to listen to their calls. The National Security agency here in the US has done the same to other foreign leaders. However, the scope of this hack is really what is troubling US officials. We are talking every major US telecom provider that has been targeted and they are going after, as you said, senior, senior political figures, the incoming president-elect Donald Trump and his running mate, JD Vance.

We've also reported that Senator Chuck Schumer's office has been targeted, so there really are turning over every stone in an effort to try to listen to what senior US officials are saying about policy, what might be changing in the incoming administration.

One source I spoke to the other day compared it to as if the US had installed Huawei, the Chinese telecommunications giant in all of our networks. And, of course, US officials don't trust Huawei. So that's a point to say that everything is compromised right now.

It is still very much a fluid situation. We are going to get more names, I think, publicly as the weeks go by. But what we know now is that it is actually a bipartisan issue, Fredricka.

The outgoing administration, the Biden administration does not want to hand this over to the Trump administration in the form of a crisis. They are trying to tamp that down right now.

We reported on a White House meeting on Friday with senior telecom execs that were briefed by National Security adviser, Jake Sullivan, shared the latest intelligence with them.

But the bottom line here, Fredricka, is they actually don't know what they don't know, necessarily. They are still intrusions, parts of the hack that they're trying to uncover, trying to figure out where the hackers are and to try to kick them out because it is very, very difficult to get them out of the systems right now.

WHITFIELD: Yes, all right, very eyebrow raising.

All right, Sean Lyngaas, thank you so much.

Let's talk more about all of this. Let's bring in CNN political and national security analyst, David Sanger. He is a White House and National Security correspondent for "The New York Times."

David, you wrote, contributed to the writing in this article for "The New York Times," so this is very sophisticated, this Chinese hacking operation. So, what do we believe the hackers were able to find out as they retrieved some of this information?

[15:05:08]

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Fredricka, the thing that has most astounded American officials who have been watching this, I think basically two or three things.

First, the Chinese hackers were in the American telecom system for probably a year before they were detected, and they were really only detected because Microsoft, which is not a telecom provider noticed that some of the internet addresses that they were seeing on Chinese sites that were closely linked to this Ministry of State Security Intelligence unit that was doing the hacking, seemed to resolve back at Verizon and AT&T and other telecom makers.

Then when they dug in deeper, it turned out that it looks like they had been on basically the receiving end of the system that these companies used to help the government with court ordered wiretaps. Those include both criminal cases and cases of federal investigations into suspected spies that come out of the FISA court, which is a secret court run to do intelligence investigations.

That would mean that the Chinese hackers got the phone numbers of those the US was following and thus would know whether they were on to Chinese spies. So it is that kind of thing that is most disturbing.

WHITFIELD: So how far behind is the US in bolstering its defenses against this kind of hack?

SANGER: So the difficulty here is that the American telecommunications system wasn't put together at one time. It was sort of stitched together from, you know, old dial telephones from the merger of many different telephone firms along the way that combined into one, and those all created seems that the Chinese were able to exploit and that really explains why they were able to hide in the system for so long.

WHITFIELD: How is the incoming Trump administration going to deal with this?

SANGER: Great question, because when they left office four years ago, they left the Biden administration to clean up one of the biggest Russian hacks that we had seen, also a very ingenious one that got into the software supply chain for software used by both federal agencies and a lot of corporations. And now it looks as if when the Trump administration reconstitutes, they're going to be inheriting a Chinese hack along the way.

And it just tells you the degree to which offense has outpaced defense here for many years now.

WHITFIELD: All right, David Sanger, thank you so much. Good to see you.

SANGER: Thank you. Good to see you.

WHITFIELD: All right, still to come US senators are bracing for confirmation battles over an unorthodox Trump Cabinet picks. They're warning President-elect Donald Trump's Cabinet picks, the confirmation process could be long and invasive. More on that.

And later, we could hear from the Menendez brothers in court now, almost 30 years after they were sentenced -- they were convicted and sentenced to life in prison for murdering their parents. They're set to appear in court tomorrow for a new hearing on their bid to regain freedom. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:13:19]

WHITFIELD: President-elect Trump has mostly completed his list of Cabinet secretaries and key leaders, but now comes the hard part. His picks need to get past skeptical senators whose lack of support already forced one US attorney general nominee, Matt Gaetz, to withdraw.

Today, increased scrutiny over the vetting process for some of the controversial picks. So far, Trump has not yet filed the paperwork necessary for the FBI to conduct thorough background checks.

Here is Senator Amy Klobuchar.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): We require these background checks of line DEA agents, drug enforcement agents. We require of first time prosecutors for the federal government, why wouldn't we get these background checks for the most important job in the United States government?

So if they keep delaying on these background checks, we will have a delay in getting these Cabinet officials in and I don't want to have a delay. I want to have the hearings. I want to make a decision on each one of them on the merits, as I've done in the past and I can't do that without the background checks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: CNN's Alayna Treene is joining us now from near Trump's Florida home.

Alayna, so what is the Trump team saying about their plans to get these picks confirmed?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Well, Fred, I think there are a couple of things. One is that we actually saw that the Senate and Senate Republicans still do hold a lot of power. I think that's obviously clear, they have to go through these different confirmation hearings but, you know, I think there was a question of whether or not they would be loyal to Donald Trump, capitulate to Donald Trump.

But what we saw happen last week with Matt Gaetz and how essentially it became very clear that he was not going to have the numbers to get confirmed, and then later withdrew, I think that has added to some consternation and tension behind the scenes with some of these other controversial picks.

[15:15:10]

Now, there are couple I want to highlight, the ones that we hear of often, particularly from Republican senators, is, you know the questions that they have for people like Pete Hegseth, the Fox News host who is now Donald Trump's pick to lead the Department of Defense; Tulsi Gabbard, a former Democrat who is Donald Trump's pick to be his Director of National Intelligence, and then also RFK, Jr., another former Democrat who many Republicans on Capitol Hill have some anxiety about particularly as it relates to his stance on abortion, his past support for abortion access, particularly given he would be in the role of leading the Department of Health and Human Services.

So that is one thing that is definitely weighing on the mind of Donald Trump's transition team as they begin to ready these different picks for their confirmation hearings.

One thing is, we know that each of these picks, particularly the controversial ones are going to be meeting privately with senators on Capitol Hill, just like we saw happen last week with Gaetz, but also Hegseth, when they were joined by JD Vance, who kind of took them around to all of these different meetings with crucial Republican senators.

But also, I am hearing there are some work going on behind-the-scenes with the transition team to give some assurances. I think one example is, again with Hegseth, trying to assure them that Donald Trump and his team are working through the necessary steps to assuage some of the concerns that these members have.

This is going to be a battle. We are not going to see these hearings take place for a couple of weeks now, but this is going to be a long term battle that the transition team is working on with Hill members to make sure that they are in a good place before they kind of send them on their way to get grilled by these different Republicans -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, Alayna Treene, thank you so much.

All right, when he takes office, President-elect Trump is promising to implement strict border measures and kick off the mass detention and deportation of migrants. He is even vowing to use the US military to help carry out what he calls "the largest deportation program" in US history.

In response to those promises, immigrant advocates and lawyers are now preparing to fight back.

Joining me right now is Ivan Espinoza-Madrigal. He is the executive director of the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights and Economic Justice. Thank you so much for being with us.

IVAN ESPINOZA-MADRIGAL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, LAWYERS FOR CIVIL RIGHTS: Thank you very much for having me, Fred.

And my organization recently rebranded we are Lawyers for Civil Rights.

WHITFIELD: Oh, okay. Very good note taken.

So tell us about how your group of attorneys plans to battle Trump's tough new promised migrant policies.

ESPINOZA-MADRIGAL: We are in an unfortunate position to have to reactivate to meet incredible demands for community protection, at a time when the president-elect is saying that he will use all resources and tools, including the Army and even local and state officials to round up immigrants and what we are going to see here are intense legal battles over what is the jurisdiction of immigration officers and their ability to do immigration enforcement at the community level.

We are talking about aggressive policies that even contemplate disrupting classrooms to remove migrants from the classroom. This is something that is going to impact not just migrants, but all of us as we see aggressive enforcement in many spaces that we are not used to seeing enforcement in.

WHITFIELD: Is it difficult to prepare when you don't know the methods that will be used? We are only hearing about the concept, the endgame of mass deportation, but you don't know yet any details about how it is going to be executed.

So is that -- does that make it difficult to prepare for your plan, your group of attorneys' plan?

ESPINOZA-MADRIGAL: In this particular context, it is easy to extrapolate from what we have already seen in Trump 1.0. What we saw were efforts to intimidate migrants to stop them from even going to places like courthouses, where victims and witnesses of crime are able to get legal assistance and protection. We saw immigration enforcement in sensitive locations like courthouses.

So we have a sneak peek about what will happen and so we are preparing based on what we have opposed and challenged successfully in the past.

Lawyers for Civil Rights sought and secured an injunction to stop immigration arrests in courthouses. We are standing ready to be able to protect our communities in sensitive locations like courthouses, again, but also in other places like hospitals, schools, and churches -- many places that are sanctuaries based on their faith, based on commitments that they have to congregants.

[15:20:13]

And so when we see even churches approaching Lawyers for Civil Rights saying that they are nervous, that they think that they are going to be targeted for enforcement, that means that we, at Lawyers for Civil Rights will have to step up to provide legal representation for all of these community groups including shelters and churches that are feeling intense vulnerability right now.

So we have a sneak peek about what is to come and we will use all available resources and tools in state and federal court to oppose a Trump 2.0 that is hell bent in disrupting our communities and upending lives.

WHITFIELD: You said people have expressed to you that they are very nervous. What are the measures that some folks are taking to prepare themselves for the unknown, but also the certainty of something is coming?

ESPINOZA-MADRIGAL: We are starting to provide free legal assistance to our community partners to make sure that they are safe and that they can continue in their mission and values driven work, such as churches that are committed to supporting migrants. We are also seeing many organizations on the ground that are already starting to organize coalitions and networks for example, phone call chains to be activated in the event that immigration enforcement happens in our communities and in sensitive locations.

This is happening across the country from Boston to San Francisco, we are seeing these trends as communities are starting to come together to be able to empower everyone in their communities because like I said, this is going to impact all of us when the federal government comes after children, when the federal government is disrupting work places, this is going to affect all of us as we see our nannies, our babysitters, our cleaning ladies being deported.

And so what this means for us at Lawyers for Civil Rights is that we have to protect the affected communities and make sure that the federal government is not overstepping their authority by stripping lawful and legal immigrants of their current status because what we are seeing right now is a Trump 2.0 transition team that is interested and invested in stripping people of basic protections, and this really exacerbates and manufactures the immigration crisis.

And so we have to be vigilant about monitoring and opposing that.

WHITFIELD: All right, Ivan Espinoz-Madrigal of the Lawyers for Civil Rights, thank you so much for your time. Appreciate it.

ESPINOZA-MADRIGAL: Thank you, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, coming up, the Menendez brothers are headed back to court. We will talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Decades after two brothers were convicted and sentenced to life without parole for killing their parents, tomorrow, Erik and Lyle Menendez are scheduled to appear in court. This may be their first time together in court in 28 years. It is another step in the effort to get resentenced and maybe even released from prison.

CNN's Camila Bernal is joining us with more on all of this. What are the expectations tomorrow with their possible court appearance?

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Fred. So this is a status hearing. So really it is in the hands of the judge to decide how this goes on and what will happen tomorrow.

But we do know that this is in fact, their latest step in their bid for freedom. And this is after the LA district attorney here decided that they should be or recommended that they should be resentenced. The problem here for the brothers is that the district attorney got essentially voted out of office. And so now LA has a new district attorney, and he is not necessarily as on board as was George Gascon.

So I want you to take a listen to what the new incoming district attorney has to say about this case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NATHAN HOCHMAN, LOS ANGELES DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Now, as to whether or not I am going to support that particular motion or not, you've got to do the hard work to make that decision. You've got to review thoroughly the facts and the law.

You need to actually speak to the prosecutors, speak to law enforcement officers, speak to the defense counsel, and speak to any victim family members as well. Only after I do all of that work will I be in a position to weigh in on the Menendez case because then I am not only going to weigh in on it, I will have to defend that decision in court.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERNAL: Now, Fred, you mentioned they haven't appeared in court in almost 30 years. We haven't seen them in public since 1996 and so tomorrow's hearing is at 10:30 AM local time at a court in Van Nuys here in the Los Angeles area and it is really the judge who decides whether they appear in person or virtually, although it is likely that they will appear virtually.

And it is also the judge who is setting very strict rules for this hearing: No cameras, no cell phones. They will be sealed and placed in bags. There will be journalists allowed, but only 16 members of the public that will get those seats via a lottery.

[15:30:10]

There is huge interest in this case, and especially since that docuseries that was released on Peacock in 2023, because essentially what happened there was that another person, a member of the boy band, Menudo, alleged that Jose Menendez also sexually abused him.

So that evidence, along with a letter that Erik Menendez wrote before the killings alleging his sexual abuse, the defense says is enough to ask the court to reconsider their sentence and their conviction.

So again, this was essentially the way that they reopened up this case and got more attention because of the docuseries, because of another show on Netflix and a lot of interest from the public.

The question here is not whether or not the brothers killed their parents. They have admitted to doing so, but their defense has argued that they did it in self-defense after years of sexual abuse and emotional and physical abuse by their parents.

The prosecution at the time argued that it was premeditated and actually motivated by them wanting their parents' money. And so, 30 years later, we will have to wait and see what the judge decides to do tomorrow, but even more consequential is a hearing scheduled for December 11th. That is the resentencing hearing. So that may have higher and bigger consequences for the two brothers, as we all follow this case that has now become just the latest in all of these series and national attention from the public and from social media that are now just very interested in this case.

WHITFIELD: Camila Bernal, thank you so much.

BERNAL: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right, in Australia, the suicide death of a 12-year-old girl is bringing attention to a countrywide fight over young children's access to social media.

CNN's Hanako Montgomery has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HANAKO MONTGOMERY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): For all the positive connections the joy social media can create it can also quickly strip it away -- destroy it forever.

KELLY O'BRIEN, MOTHER OF CHARLOTTE O'BRIEN: I will miss your hugs, your kisses, your laugh, your beautiful, beautiful smile.

MONTGOMERY (voice over): In September 12-year-old Australian girl Charlotte O'Brien took her own life after years of being bullied on social media.

Her parents quickly joined a political fight to protect children from online harm. The Australian government says the best way to do that is the ban anyone under 16 from using social media.

ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER OF AUSTRALIA: Social media is doing social harm to our young Australians and I am calling time on it. The safety and mental health of our young people has to be a priority.

MONTGOMERY (voice over): Under new legislation introduced to Australia's Parliament, there would be consequences for social media companies caught systematically breaching the age restriction and other safety measures -- fines reaching tens of millions of dollars, but children or parents won't be punished for breaking the new rules. Instead, the government says the ban will help moms and dads to say no to young people who want to stay online.

BEN KIOKO, 14 YEARS OLD: Yes. So being autistic, I have a really, really hard time connecting with others and doing that online makes it a lot easier.

MONTGOMERY (voice over): Some experts, too, say that a catch-all approach may not be helpful.

JUSTINE HUMPHREY, UNIVERSITY OF SYDNEY: Even though the age is really fundamentally important that we need to get right, what we're talking about when we say we're going to introduce a ban by age is that it negates the fact that young people have very, very different levels of maturity.

MONTGOMERY (voice over): But advocates of the ban point to age limits on alcohol, gambling, and smoking arguing social media can be equally damaging for those too young to use it.

Hanako Montgomery, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And next, even as Russia intensifies its attacks, Ukraine's president says he thinks the war could end next year. We will hear what he said.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:38:57]

WHITFIELD: Ukraine says it repelled widespread drone attacks overnight, downing 50 of 73 drones, some of which were aimed at the capital of Kyiv. Even as Russia has intensified its assaults in recent weeks, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is suggesting an end to the war may be in sight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): As the war in Ukraine nears the three-year mark, more and more Russians are signing up to fight.

Vladimir Putin is saying more than 700,000 are currently stationed in and around Ukraine.

We got rare access to an event in Moscow honoring the mothers of Russian soldiers battling in what the Kremlin still calls its special military operation -- mothers whose sons are fighting have been killed or injured.

Oksana Medvedeva's son Yegor (ph), was severely wounded on the battlefield earlier this year.

(OKSANA MEDVEDEVA speaking in foreign language.)

PLEITGEN (voice over): "He had surgery on his leg and the nerves had to be sewn back together," she says. "He also had surgery on his jaw, but it still has not recovered properly. He is still being treated. I am proud of my son that he is such a hero."

(UNIDENTIFIED MALE speaking in foreign language.)

PLEITGEN (voice over): While the Russians have been making significant battlefield gains recently, they appear to come at a heavy price. Moscow doesn't publish casualty figures, but Western governments believe the attrition rate among Russian forces is significant.

To increase manpower, the US and Ukraine say more than 11,000 North Korean troops are now also on Moscow's side mostly in Russia's Kursk region.

Yelina Melina's (ph) son, Mikhail is still fighting in Ukraine. She won't say where, but acknowledges for him, it's tough.

(YELINA MELINA speaking in foreign language.)

PLEITGEN (voice over): "He went through a lot of moments he doesn't like to talk about," she says. "But I found out by chance I think he's a true hero."

The US and its allies continue to condemn Russia's president, urging him to withdraw from Ukraine immediately. But this week instead, a major escalation.

After the Biden administration allowed Ukraine to use longer distance, US and UK supplied missiles to strike deep inside Russia, Putin hit back with a new intermediate range ballistic missile capable of delivering devastating nuclear warheads and he threatened to hit US assets as well.

(VLADIMIR PUTIN speaking in foreign language.)

PLEITGEN (voice over): "We should we consider ourselves entitled to use our weapons against the military objects of those countries that allow their weapons to be used against our objects," he said.

Back at the event for soldiers' mothers, a Russian parliamentarian backing Putin up.

(NINA OSTANINA speaking in foreign language.)

PLEITGEN (voice over): "We are a strong country and we've been patient for a long time," she said. "But in the case of mass deaths of our people, if the collective West does not sober up, we should proceed to more decisive actions. We can no longer lose any of our men."

But for now, the battles continue to escalate and the losses continue to mount, as Vladimir Putin warns the war is increasingly becoming a struggle between Russia and the West.

Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Moscow.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: When we come back, the true story of the Iran hostage crisis told by those who were held captive. We will have a look at the new episode of CNN's "How It Really Happened."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:47:22]

WHITFIELD: In 1979, Iranian students stormed the United States Embassy in Tehran, taking the embassy staff hostage and holding over 50 of them for nearly 14 months. Only a handful managed to escape, but those who did remain trapped in Iran until the CIA came up with a daring plan to bring them home.

In a new episode of how it really happened, several former hostages detail their time in captivity, and three of the Tehran six escapees tell of their daring rescue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I could hear the demonstrating getting closer and closer and louder and louder. I hear these people are chanting "Death to America."

And all of a sudden, they've gotten in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're coming over the walls. They're coming over the walls.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The place was just overrun with people. We were over in the Marine house, and they came in and started kicking doors down and we could see them taking other State Department and Defense attache people out and lead them across the compound.

You don't know what's going on. You don't know if you're ever going to get out of there. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My adrenaline was gone. People were pounding on the door and I am putting rounds into my pistol, and then all of a sudden they start bringing people to the door and saying, hey, they've got a gun to my head. If you don't open the door, they're going to kill me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Incredibly frightening time.

Joining us right now to discuss is CNN presidential historian, Tim Naftali.

Tim, great to see you. You were a college student at the time. I can't wait to talk to you more about your personal experience there as a journalism student, but during this time, this really did consume President Jimmy Carter's final year in office, didn't it?

TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, without a doubt, it consumed his final year in office because not only was there a hostage crisis, but there was also an energy crisis which drove inflation up to 14 percent, and in response, the Federal Reserve put interest rates up to 11 percent. So you had at home both concerns about the over 50 American hostages and also an economic recession.

So Jimmy Carter had to figure out a way how to deal with the fact that those Americans were being held hostage, in addition to dealing with this new phenomenon, which had basically upended geopolitics, which was the Islamic Revolution in Iran.

WHITFIELD: How did this ultimately, you know, impact the relationship between Iran and the United States? I mean, did it kind of you know, set in stone a sort of blueprint or -- what happened?

[15:50:07]

NAFTALI: Well, that's why this episode is so important because there are times in -- there are moments in our current set of world challenges that a little bit of history goes a long way.

And our troubles with Iran date back to our relationship with the Shah, but they also date to the Iran hostage crisis because we responded to the Islamic Republic after it took our hostages by putting sanctions on Iran and building a fraught, fragile, adversarial relationship, which is still influencing how we deal with that country.

So this case, this story of the heroism of the over 50 Americans who were held hostage and Jimmy Carter's efforts to get them out, that still colors the way in which we deal with Iran today.

WHITFIELD: The crisis ended January 20th. I mean, Inauguration Day for Ronald Reagan as it plagued Jimmy Carter's final year, it was kind of a, you know, starting point for Ronald Reagan. At the same time, you were a journalism student at Yale University. I understand that you managed to sneak into a hotel in New York City where the hostages, you know, were staying following their welcome home back to the US. So talk to me about your memories and your experience.

NAFTALI: Well, the ticker tape parade in New York City was on January 30th, and my birthday happens to be the day after and my parents came into New York for my birthday.

And I noticed in the lobby of the Waldorf Astoria, a lot of unusual activity, and so I was relatively enterprising as a 19-year-old and I walked over to -- I walked over to the hotel manager or assistant manager and found out that the hostages, former hostages were on the 12th floor.

So I decided to get into the elevator and go to the 12th floor. When I got to the 12th floor, you know I looked pretty reasonable, I suppose. This New York City detective said, "What are you doing here, kid?" And I said well, you know, I write for the student newspaper. I would like to interview one of the hostages, and he said, "Well, look, if any of the doors are open, you knock on the wall and see if they'll talk to you."

And the door to Alan Golacinski's room was open, and he had just one of the security officers. So I knocked on the door and he said, "Come on in, kid." And I interviewed him and my piece ran a few days later.

The point was, I actually got to talk to him about his experience. It was very informative not only for a 19-year-old, but, you know, 43 years later, for me to have talked to him about how he experienced the crisis, which you will learn about in the show, but also the effect on him personally.

He had been abused -- physically abused. He had been thrown in jail after Jimmy Carter attempted to rescue all of them. They didn't know why they'd been thrown in jail, but that was the reason -- and he was very grateful to be alive.

One of the things that Jimmy Carter said throughout the crisis was, I want them all back alive. Not a single American hostage died. Sadly, eight servicemen died trying to rescue them. But not one of the hostages died.

Jimmy Carter lost the election in 1980, largely because of the Islamic Revolution, both the inflation and the hostage drama had undermined his credibility with the American people, but he at least felt very good that every single one of the hostages had come back and President Reagan allowed Jimmy Carter to be the US representative who greeted the hostages as they reached freedom in Germany.

So Jimmy Carter lost an election, lost the presidency, but he felt that he had lived up to his moral values in the way he had handled this crisis.

WHITFIELD: Wow. What powerful memories, and, I mean, I could feel how visceral it is still with you, just in your description as a 19-year- old kid and now, these many years later, it is almost as if it happened yesterday it sounds like from your experience. Thank you so much for sharing that with us. Tim Naftali, thank you so much.

NAFTALI: Thank you, Fred.

WHITFIELD: Wonderful.

And tune in to a new episode of "How It Really Happened" tonight at 9:00 PM Eastern right here on CNN.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:59:08]

WHITFIELD: All right now to the story of how an artificial intelligence powered robot, convinced at least 12 other robots in Shanghai, China, to walk off the job.

CNN's Lynda Kinkade has details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LYNDA KINKADE, CNN HOST AND CORRESPONDENT (voice over): It is Shanghai showroom and unexpected shenanigan. The tiniest little AI-powered robot seemingly leading a mass walkout.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you working overtime?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We never get off from work.

KINKADE: The robot named Erbai is seen on security footage talking to several taller robots on display.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you ever go home? Come home with me.

KINKADE: Erbai then leads the other robots out of the showroom.

The incident went viral online and many assumed it was a hoax. We now know it was an experiment.

The company that designed the potential theft wanted to see if a robot could take command without directly involving humans. It turns out they can.

Luckily, no bots were stolen. The exit was locked down in advance.

Still, it's risky business when AI robots can adapt human-like behavior.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[16:00:19]