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Incoming Trump White House Faces Conflicts with Global Wars; Iran Vows to Respond to Israel; Ukraine Hit by New Missile from Russia; U.S. Senate to Gear Up for Confirmation Battles. Democrats are Pessimistic About Party After Election Losses; Two Major Storms to Hit the U.S. on Thanksgiving Week; Texas School Board Approves Bible-Based Curriculum for K-5 Schools. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired November 24, 2024 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

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VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: -- this poster seeking help in their search for Kobayashi.

UNKNOWN: Hannah, you are loved. You're missed, yeah. And we're here for you.

MIRACLE: Veronica Miracle, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Very sad. All right. Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. The "CNN Newsroom" continues with Kayla Tausche right now.

KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN HOST: You're in the "CNN Newsroom." I'm Kayla Tausche in Washington. Jessica Dean has the night off. President-elect Donald Trump will take over the White House at a time of dramatic upheaval around the world. New flashpoints in two ongoing wars in Europe and the Middle East both present a daunting foreign policy situation for the incoming administration.

Fallout continues to emerge from Russia firing a new kind of ballistic missile into Ukraine this week, as well as new and destructive strikes between Israel and Hezbollah over the weekend. Trump, of course, rarely talks about those conflicts as challenges, though. What we're more used to hearing from him is confidence that this will all go away as soon as he's in charge.

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Before I even arrive at the Oval Office, I will have the disastrous war between Russia and Ukraine settled. And it will take me no longer than one day.

(END VIDEO CLIP) TAUSCHE: Trump has made similar pronouncements about achieving peace in the Middle East, an elusive goal for decades' worth of American presidents, including his own first term. On the ground, Lebanese officials say dozens were killed in a series of Israeli strikes over the weekend. But Israeli officials say a ceasefire agreement with Hezbollah, as well as a hostage deal with Hamas, are not out of reach.

And new tonight, we're learning Iran is preparing to retaliate to Israel's recent strikes on the country's military sites. A senior adviser to Iran's supreme leader saying the response will be aimed at restoring deterrence. CNN International diplomatic editor Nic Robertson joins us now. Nic, a lot of new developments today. Where do things stand in the Middle East tonight?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: In terms of the ceasefire talks, there seems to be some hope, not there yet, that the two sides can come to an agreement. The key sticking area seems to be the amount of freedom that Israel will have if the ceasefire is broken to go into action against Hezbollah. There's going to be -- the plan would be for a 60-day ceasefire.

I think the very fact that there's been a huge uptick in the number of Israeli strikes on Beirut on trying to apparently get a Hezbollah commander over the weekend that didn't work out. Twelve strikes in the suburbs of Beirut today, targeting Hezbollah infrastructure there again. A misstrike today on the Lebanese army. One soldier killed, several injured, for which the IDF actually apologized because the Lebanese army would be part of ensuring that ceasefire deal work because they would go into the military vacuum along the border, not that they're a very strong force.

However, that's the sort of picture, this real up tempo in 250 Hezbollah rockets into Israel today. But when there have been negotiations in the past, when there have been negotiations in the past around the ceasefire in 2006, there was at that time again an up tempo in the number of strikes by Israel, the number of missiles launches by Hezbollah. So it could be that we're in that same phase.

But of course, the specter of Donald Trump coming into the White House and he doesn't want there to be a war in the region here, any war, would be in Gaza with Hamas or in Lebanon with Hezbollah, then that also creates a sort of a political momentum of its type, if you will, because Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu also thinks that he can have a good relationship with Donald Trump, and that can work out for a lot of the things he wants to achieve for Israel.

So I think there are a lot of reasons that are coming together, and one of them coming over the horizon is definitely a new administration in the White House in two months' time.

TAUSCHE: And U.S. officials at this hour mum on just how close a potential ceasefire on that front of the war might be for now. Nic, I know we'll see you often. We appreciate your reporting. Nic Robertson in Jerusalem for us.

Turning now to Russia's war on Ukraine, a Russian strike on Dnipro Ukraine this week using an unfamiliar and novel missile has Ukrainian and American officials alike wondering what exactly they're dealing with now in terms of Russia's military technology. CNN's Nick Paton- Walsh reports from on the ground in Dnipro.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was the dead of night here that people in Dnipro saw the extraordinary scene on their skyline of that multi-warhead Russian missile. Experimental, according to U.S. officials. And here a children's rehabilitation center where some of the debris from the attack that night indeed landed.

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Children were here at the time, still broken glass from the ground below me. And really, it's these vulnerable Ukrainians on the receiving end of the broader geopolitical message that Russian President Vladimir Putin wanted to send. The parts of the debris of that missile on display to news agencies in Kyiv today, a select amount, clearly Kyiv trying to show the world exactly what technology was used against them and there is of course going to be a lot of forensic attention as to exactly what those missile parts indeed show.

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VOLODOMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE (through translation): Experts are currently analyzing the evidence and working with our partners to establish all the details and the specifications of this missile and to find a response together to this latest Russian escalation.

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WALSH: There appears to be a consensus. This was a hypersonic missile and it was one with multiple warheads, non-nuclear indeed. Vladimir Putin suggested that it can potentially get through all Western air defenses and I'm sure that the parts on display will be poured over to see if indeed that provides any clues as to whether this is a technological leap by Russia or not.

But still here the message itself very much more immediate and terrifying surely for those who saw multiple different fragments raining down on them from above and damage still here palpable in the freezing night. Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Dnipro, Ukraine.

TAUSCHE: Our thanks to Nick Paton Walsh in Ukraine. Now CNN Global Affairs analyst Mark Esper served as Secretary of Defense under President-elect Donald Trump during his first term. He joins us now. Secretary Esper, it's good to see you. I want to start by asking you, as someone who's worked closely with Trump before, he's now about to face multiple geopolitical flashpoints at once. And based on what you know of his views and the views of the personnel that he's chosen, what would you say at this point is the Trump doctrine?

MARK ESPER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, I don't know that there necessarily is a Trump doctrine. President Trump never thought in those ways. He was much more transactional in his approach to problems around the world. So I think first and foremost will be the matter of Ukraine. And how does he attempt to bring that war to a quick conclusion? He obviously vowed during the campaign that he could end it and would end it before he actually took office. So we'll see what he does there.

But clearly, if there's anything he is looking to achieve some degree of stability with no wars in the world. And I think that's going to be very difficult to do given what we see happening in Europe and in the Middle East.

TAUSCHE: Well, he does have these very nuanced views. He is a transactional -- a dealmaker of a politician. And he has wanted to end some of these long running wars and stop the flow of billions of dollars to some of these conflicts. But he also, as many people who've worked with him know, he also wants to win a Nobel Peace Prize. He also wants to get the credit for ending some of these conflicts. So, do you think that those two things can happen? And if so, in how short order do you think he and his team could achieve them?

ESPER: Well, that's the first I've heard about him wanting to win a Nobel, but look, again, I think that's gonna be very difficult to achieve. You have a situation in Ukraine where Vladimir Putin and Volodymyr Zelenskyy are at very different ends of the spectrum in terms of what they'll do and what consider doing to end that conflict there.

And in the Middle East, of course, Israel's confronted by threats on at least three sides and arguably from five different vectors, if you include the Houthis and Shia militia groups. So that situation is going to take some resolution as well that will ultimately go back to Iran and U.S. policy toward Iran, which I think President Trump will take a very tough approach to.

He's already talked about restoring maximum pressure. So I think Iran is in the worst position here right now going into this second term of Donald Trump and arguably Vladimir Putin in a better position. with Trump coming in. So this will all play out in the next few months, though, that's for sure.

TAUSCHE: When it comes to Ukraine, you've been very vocal recently that allowing Ukraine to use U.S.-made long-range missiles to strike further into Russian territory was a decision that was long overdue. Now we just hear from our correspondents on the ground about these new types of Russian artillery that they're using into Ukraine. I mean, do you see this as escalation? And if so, what do you think the effect will be?

ESPER: Yeah, first of all, I think when historians look back at this conflict, they're going to say that while President Biden did a good job bringing the allies together and holding them together, his policy of denying Ukraine the weapons they want and then putting restrictions on her use will probably be cited as a major reason why the conflict is in a stalemate right now. It's just terrible that the Ukrainians have had to fight for two and a

half years now with at least one arm tied behind their back. But look, the introduction finally of the ATACMS into the fight, allowing them to be used beyond Ukraine is important. I think the introduction of this new intermediate range ballistic missile by Russia was a chance to kind of respond to that.

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But I also assume they're looking at more economical ways to deliver warheads and putting multiple warheads on a single missile, launching it, it travels at hypersonic speeds, also allows them to do a better job in terms of evading air defenses. So, right now, what's happening though in Ukraine is each side is attempting to maneuver to gain as much territory or as leverage as possible, anticipating that Donald Trump is going to try to bring them to the negotiating table sometime early next year.

TAUSCHE: Well, to that end, we heard today from Trump's top national security pick, Congressman Mike Waltz. He gave an interview, his first since he was selected, to Fox News. And he was asked specifically about the conflict in Ukraine. And he said that President-elect Donald Trump is, in his words, very concerned about the escalation that they see on the ground. I want you to take a listen to what he said, and I'll get your response on the other side.

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REP. MIKE WALTZ (R-FL): The president-elect has been very concerned about the escalation and where it's all going. President Trump has been very clear about the need to end this conflict. And so what we need to be discussing is who's at that table, whether it's an agreement, an armistice, how to get both sides to the table, and then what's the framework of a deal.

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TAUSCHE: So some very real substantive questions that still need to be hammered out, but he also said that he's in touch with the existing national security advisor, Jake Sullivan, that there's no daylight between them on how to proceed. I'm wondering what purpose you think that interview serves and what message it sends to some of the participants in these conflicts around the world.

ESPER: Well, clearly, he's articulating the views of himself and President Trump and telling the world, particularly the protagonists here, Russia and Ukraine, that the administration is going to come in and try and get some type of deal. Again, whether it's an armistice or some type of end of conflict, who knows?

But I do think it's important to note that in some ways it's a stalemate on the ground with Russia slowly gaining more and more ground. So time is on Russia's side here, not on Ukraine's side. And Ukraine is trading ground for time at this point in time. They are slowly losing because of the manpower challenges they face, the fact that Russia has a much larger economy, their economy is on a war footing. So they are in a more advantageous space and everybody knows that.

So I think that's a big factor here as well. But clearly President Trump coming in is gonna want to try and end this conflict. And the question is, you know, how much territory, how much will Ukraine be asked to give up? And will Vladimir Putin frankly be willing to end the conflict when he has arguably the upper hand at this point in time.

TAUSCHE: Yeah, well, a lot of big questions there. I want to ask you also about the Middle East, which you referenced a little bit earlier in this conversation. We have seen Israel ramp up this pressure campaign to try to get Hezbollah by force to the negotiating table for this ceasefire deal that has been alluding all parties for the better part of three months.

I remember U.S. and European officials at the United Nations General Assembly back in September trying to at least close this front of that war. I'm wondering if you see that deal any closer within reach and what you think could actually clinch it.

ESPER: It seems like it's within reach, Kayla. As reporter Nic Robertson reported earlier, there's a lot of steps up in the attacks. You know, for Israel, it's been all about allowing its 60 to 70,000 Israelis to return to their homes, their communities in the north of Israel, south of Lebanon. And that's the major, a major reason why they decided to go in a few months ago and do this.

And at this point in time, of course, they've decimated Hezbollah's leadership. They've taken a large chunk out of their supply of rockets and missiles, and they've pushed them back, you know, north of the Litani River. So at this point in time, the framework, as was discussed is can they return to a 2006 U.N. Resolution 1701 that would create that demilitarized zone, if you will, between the Litani River, which is about 18 miles north of the Israel-Lebanon border. Keep it free from Hezbollah. Allow a combination of Lebanese armed forces and U.N. peacekeepers in there to kind of keep that ground safe.

And the question is, what rights does Israel have if Hezbollah once again breaks the agreement and returns and tries to attack northern Israel. So I think that's all on the table. We'll see what happens here in the coming days if they can reach some type of agreement along those lines.

TAUSCHE: I'm wondering just from a 30,000 foot level, if you are Israel or if you are Hezbollah or if you are Ukraine or if you are Russia in that conflict, what incentive you think there is to do anything in the next 60 days or whether you would just bide your time to see what the next administration would bring?

ESPER: Well, you know, in the Ukrainian conflict for Vladimir Putin, it argues for him to wait. He believes that Trump will take a different approach as Trump has stated toward Ukraine and either try to end the conflict.

[17:14:55] And if he doesn't, he's expressed, you know, that he doesn't want the United States to further support Ukraine. But we would deny them arms and ammunition and things like that. So for Putin, it's a plus.

And I think for Bibi Netanyahu, it's a plus as well, because President Trump is less concerned about the various humanitarian concerns raised by Joe Biden and is unlikely to deny them weapons and so on. In fact, Trump rightly said when Israel was contemplating a counterattack against Iran several weeks ago, you know, why not consider nuclear targets? That was the right question to ask.

And so I think President Trump is also going to give Israel a freer hand to deal against Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis, and Iran, frankly. So, I think in both cases, it doesn't play well for Ukraine and Europe or for Iran and its proxies in the Middle East.

TAUSCHE: Well, it's a real-time calculus that is going on as we speak. We appreciate your expertise and perspective. Secretary Mark Esper, thank you so much.

ESPER: Thanks, Kayla.

TAUSCHE: Coming up on CNN, senators are bracing for confirmation battles over controversial Trump cabinet picks. New details tonight on how lawmakers and Trump's team are gearing up for the nomination fight.

Plus, Democrats are plotting their comeback to win back Americans. But what does that actually look like? We'll talk about it.

And two significant storms set to hit the U.S. this Thanksgiving week, just as millions of Americans get ready to hit airports and roads.

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TAUSCHE: Eight weeks until President-elect Trump returns to the White House, he's now named the core of his second term cabinet. The question now is whether the Senate will approve them. Some Republicans in Congress expect long and fiery battles over some of Trump's more controversial choices. Let's go to CNN's Alayna Treene live outside Mar-a-Lago in West Palm Beach. Alayna, how confident at this stage in the game is the Trump team in getting those picks confirmed?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Well, Kayla, from my conversations with those working on the transition and those close with Donald Trump on this, they argue that they are confident. Donald Trump did not put these people in positions to not get confirmed. Of course, his main thought was on who he wanted for these different roles and there's a reason that many of these people are controversial, they argue.

And Donald Trump firmly believes that he wants people in these agencies who will be disruptors, who will break from the establishment norm. And that's why you're seeing some people who are all over the ideological spectrum, but also who may have trouble really when they're behind closed doors with these senators or we see this play out in public. Now, we actually did hear two different Republican senators today on Dana Bash's show this morning addressing some of this.

We heard Senator Markwayne Mullin really try to defend Donald Trump, but then we also heard Senator James Lankford who argued that he was going to have a lot of questions mainly for Tulsi Gabbard, Donald Trump's pick to be his director of national intelligence. Take a listen.

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SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R-OK): I think that's probably more politically motivated than it actually has any truth to it at all. She is a true patriot of the United States and there's no reason why the Democrats are going after her other than the fact they're upset that she left their woke party.

SEN. JAMES LANKFORD (R-OK): Well, we'll have lots of questions. She met with Bashir Assad. We'll want to know what the purpose was and what the direction for that was. We want to get a chance to talk about past comments that she's made and get them into full context. So sure, there's comments that are floating out there, but we want to be able to know the rest of the story.

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TREENE: So Kayla, to explain a little bit more about why Tulsi Gabbard is seen as more controversial, particularly in the eyes of some of these Republicans, is because of her stance when it comes to surveillance. Our colleague Katie Bo Lillis and others at CNN did a great story on this looking at how she has a deep distrust of some of the agencies that she is tasked with running, and particularly has a different view on surveillance.

Really, she is skeptical of a lot of surveillance practices that America does and that could put her at odds with some of the senators who are going to be tasked with confirming her. I will say though, however, that we know and we saw this actually play out last week with Matt Gaetz and Pete Hegseth going to the Hill.

Many of these candidates, particularly the ones that the Trump transition teams knows are a little bit more controversial or some Republicans are skeptical about, they will be meeting behind closed doors and they are really readying these different people to be prepared for some of the questions that these senators will be asking them and be prepared for some of the concerns that they are likely to raise. So this is all playing out behind the scenes. Of course, they have some time until these hearings are expected to actually get underway.

TAUSCHE: But very illustrative that the sound that you played from those two senators, they are both from the deep red state of Oklahoma and they obviously had very different takes on Gabbard going forward. Alayna Treene, thank you so much for your reporting. We'll see you a little bit later on in the show. Joining me now is national political reporter for "The Bulwark" Marc

Caputo. Marc, when you think about the confirmation process and what's happened so far, what we've learned about many of these nominees, how do you think the process will go over the next two months? Do you believe that Gaetz, who withdrew after some of these allegations about his conduct with a minor, do you think that he's taking the fall for some of the other more controversial picks?

MARC CAPUTO, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, THE BULWARK: He's only taken the fall for his own problems. Whether that means that he's the one loss and everyone else gets picked as a result I can't say.

[17:24:55]

I called it wrong. I said on CNN actually that I thought they were going to be in it straight through the confirmation hearings because that's what I was told by Gaetz and his people and the president's people, the vice president, or better said, the president-elect's people. It didn't happen.

So, I don't want to do any more forecasting as to who is going to make the -- make if across the finish line and who's not. I think it's safe to ask this question which is what does the U.S. Senate think, or better said, what do the Republicans in the United States Senate think? If they can get a majority of votes for a nominee, the nominee is gonna sail through. If they can't, then we have to ask what's gonna happen at that sticking point.

Well, that sticking point might be Pete Hegseth. It might be RFK, Jr. It might be Tulsi Gabbard. I don't know and I don't know what happens when they reach that point.

TAUSCHE: Well, it also depends really on how Republicans themselves feel about it based on the composition of the Senate.

CAPUTO: Yes.

TAUSCHE: And there is one comment in particular that I want to raise for our audience and it is Nikki Haley who tweeted or she rather she said on her on her radio show, she called Tulsi Gabbard a Russian, Iranian, Syrian, Chinese sympathizer. Who do you think her audience is with that comment? And do you think that that is a view that is more widely held within establishment Republicans?

CAPUTO: I don't think so anymore. Now I do know that there's a certain amount of concern about Tulsi Gabbard, but in Trump circles and in sort of the emerging America first movement, the MAGA movement or whatever you want to call it, comments like Nikki Haley's are straight out of the deep state propaganda talking point book. So what it's probably going to do, just take it in isolation, is help Tulsi Gabbard's nomination not hurt it.

Gabbard, however, is going to have to answer questions about those various connections or her views concerning those different nations. And it's going to be a potentially difficult pick and difficult nomination process. Whether she makes it across the finish line or not, I don't know. And whether Trump fights to get her across the finish line, if he has to, I don't know. He didn't with Gaetz. And so is he going to with Gabbard?

Now Gabbard's problems are not half as difficult for an administration or an incoming administration to deal with. Gaetz was accused of sex trafficking a minor, something he denied, but there was just a drip, drip of steady bad information that was coming out. We haven't seen any sort of steady bad information coming out about Tulsi Gabbard or any of these other picks, so let's just wait and see.

TAUSCHE: And of course, there's still two months before that process really gets underway in earnest. I'm wondering what you can tell us about Pam Bondi, who is the new nominee for attorney general and perhaps not only what her background is, but also what it says about the influence that Florida lawmakers have over the president and the process at this point.

CAPUTO: I think Bondi is a little separate from everyone else. Now, what makes her unique in the world of Florida Republicans is she was the only statewide elected Republican in 2016 when Donald Trump was running against Senator Marco Rubio, Florida Senator Marco Rubio, who endorsed Trump prior to the Republican presidential primary, which was a very difficult primary, where Rubio insulted Trump's hand size as a metaphor for something else.

So that sort of took a certain amount of guts for Bondi to do, and it just sort of exposed or it showed her really close association with Donald Trump. But Pam Bondi loves Donald Trump, like they're friends, she adores him. It's sort of almost an uncle-niece relationship, and he trusts her. This is the most important position for him.

The reason he chose Matt Gaetz beforehand is that he trusted Matt Gaetz to handle it and not handle it the way, say, Barr was the attorney general in latter years or latter months, or the way, at the very beginning, Jeff Sessions was, which, for Donald Trump, was a disaster. It led to these various investigations, the Mueller report, and all of these problems.

He doesn't want that to happen again. He also wants the, quote- unquote, "deep state" purged from the Department of Justice, and Gaetz was really well-suited to do that but he had baggage. Pam Bondi doesn't have a baggage. He was the attorney general of Florida. They do have a very close relationship. He trust her. And so I assume a lot of things that he wants he's going to get through her, but that doesn't mean that she's just going to be rubber stamp.

She has been an advisor to him for a while and like a lot of advisors who stay around they do give advice that he takes over time, we just don't know exactly what it is because they're going to shut their mouths afterward.

TAUSCHE: Yeah. Well, to be continued. We are going to be learning a lot, a lot about these people.

CAPUTO: Indeed.

TAUSCHE: Marc Caputo, we appreciate you being our Florida band this evening. Thank you so much for joining us.

CAPUTO: Thank you.

TAUSCHE: Up ahead, the Democratic Party now licking its wounds as it tries to figure out what went wrong this election and how to forge a new path forward. We'll discuss with former Alabama Senator Doug Jones. That's up next.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK) TAUSCHE: So where does the Democratic Party go from here? With just a little more than a month before Republicans take over power in the White House, the Senate, and the House, Democrats are taking a hard look at their party and their messaging to Americans. A new poll found that pessimism among Democrat voters is at its highest level in the past eight years. Now, 49% pessimistic about the party's future.

Joining me now is former U.S. Senator from Alabama, Doug Jones. Doug, it's good to see you tonight. Before the election, there was a belief that at this point, we'd still be in litigation hell, in the words of one of Biden's aides, for weeks after what was expected to be a close race. But that obviously was not what happened. And now the opposition has been relatively quiet. I'm wondering what you're hearing as the discussion among Democrats right now.

[17:35:00]

DOUG JONES, FORMER ALABAMA SENATOR: Well, I think the discussions have died down just a little bit as people let the dust settle. You know, initially, Democrats do what Democrats always do, and that is former circular firing squad started pointing fingers at each other. But after the dust settled in the walls of the Senate, the laws of the presidency came in, they realize that this was not the landslide, this was not the overwhelming mandate that they thought that it appeared to be, that this is not the Reagan landslide, this was less than Obama's election in 2008. We did some really good races. We won the Senate our races and states that Donald Trump carried, these swing states.

So, all is not lost. Our messaging, I think, is good. I think the biggest issue that Democrats have to start talking about is how we get that message out. That has been the problem of Democrats for a long, long time. While Republicans have built a true infrastructure that engages voters every day, 24-7, seven days a week, 12 months out of the year, Democrats don't do that.

TAUSCHE: Well, and some top Democrats are trying to opine on exactly what went wrong and what they should have said. Just today, Senator Sherrod Brown, who represented Ohio for a very long time, lost his race this year, told CNN in an interview that Democrats need to win back the working class. How do you do that?

JONES: Well, you know, look, I think what we do is, as I said, I think we've got to get that message out. Remember that Biden-Harris administration was the most working- class administration we've had in generations. I mean, they were pro-union. They were building the economy from the ground up in the middle out.

TAUSCHE: So why didn't it matter at the ballot box when they couldn't secure the top endorsements? Go ahead.

JONES: Because our message was not getting out to the rank and file union about exactly what we were doing. We do not have the same kind of messaging infrastructure. People are overlooking the fact that we -- Democrats have old school, tried to rely on CNN, MSNBC, all of the other networks, the New York Times and others, while Republicans have been going to places where people are actually getting all of their news these days.

We've got to get a better -- do a better job of reaching people, young and old, across the economic spectrum with the message that we have. If we had been able to do that over the -- over years, this was a long time coming. This was not just this election.

TAUSCHE: Sure. I think --

JONES: We'd have a lot more success.

TAUSCHE: The Harris campaign would argue they did try to reach some of those voters. They thought they were reaching them, and then they're trying to figure that out now, too. But now, as we look going forward, we're starting to get a picture of how Trump's law enforcement team is coming together with Pam Bondi, now his pick for justice. Jay Clayton is the top New York prosecutor. There's infighting over the FBI where Chris Wray still technically has another two years left on his term. So, I'm wondering what if any common themes you see emerging from the types of people that he's choosing and the types of the way that they'll approach law enforcement?

JONES: Yeah, I think that the way that he is approaching the Justice Department is exactly what he said he was going to do. It's exactly what Project 2025 said that they wanted him to do, and that is to rid the Department of career people, put in place loyalists. I think that has been the criteria.

When Donald Trump was in the White House the first time, he really wanted the Department of Justice to be his personal lawyer, not the Justice Department for all of the people, not the Justice Department that is supposed to be somewhat independent of the presidency. He wanted it to be his lawyer, and that's why he's installing his lawyers. All of his lawyers, all of the folks in the top level are his lawyers, including Pam Bondi. She is -- she was his lawyer in the impeachment.

TAUSCHE: Right.

JONES: She is going to do his bidding. And it's -- for those of us who care a lot about the independence of the Justice Department, it is very, very unsettling.

TAUSCHE: But on another branch, the judicial branch, I'm curious what you make of the current flurry of discussions about the future of the Supreme Court. Of course, Trump's election set in motion a lot of these discussions about the makeup of the court. And among Democrats, there has been some hand-wringing about whether Justice Sonia Sotomayor should retire to allow Democrats to appoint her replacement. You advised President Biden on his Supreme Court shortlist, and I'm wondering when you think about that debate, if you see it as a real option that's being discussed and that's on the table.

JONES: No, I really don't see that. Personally, I don't see that as a real option at this point. We're getting late in the process here. And I understand what Mitch McConnell did with Merrick Garland and then again with Amy Coney Barrett. But Democrats don't do that, and we don't play that way. And I don't think there's anybody that is actually putting any pressure on Justice Sotomayor. She is on the bench. She's going to stay on the bench. She's a strong voice that Democrats are proud to have on that bench.

[17:39:57]

So, I don't see anything happening, any shuffling going on with the Supreme Court between now and January, really the second or third, because that's when the new Congress will take over.

TAUSCHE: We will leave it there for now. We so appreciate your voice this evening. Former Senator Doug Jones, thank you.

JONES: Thank you.

TAUSCHE: Up ahead on CNN, storms and the potential for snow threatening to complicate holiday plans for millions. The FAA anticipating a record number of Thanksgiving travelers. You're in the "CNN Newsroom."

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[17:45:00]

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TAUSCHE: Two significant storms are set to hit the U.S. this Thanksgiving week, just as millions of Americans get ready to hit skies and roads in what's expected to be one of the biggest travel weeks of the year. CNN meteorologist Allison Chinchar is tracking the weather that could impact your holiday plans.

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ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Mother Nature not making it very easy for some folks for this big holiday travel week. We start off the day Monday with this new system here impacting portions of the Midwest, down through the Mississippi and Tennessee Valley area region. That's going to have rain on the south side and some snow showers farther to the north.

Out to the west, we are going to have a series of systems moving their way through. This is expected to bring some heavy rainfall along the coast and some very heavy snow, especially in the Sierras, could see two to three feet over the next few days.

By late into the day Monday, again, you'll start to see that first system begin to spread into the areas of the mid-Atlantic as well as the northeast overnight into early Tuesday. Also looking at some showers along the southeast coast, too.

The other system we're watching, that's the one that moved into the West Coast, now starting to overspread into the Rockies and eventually into the central portion of the country. Once we get towards Wednesday, this is going to have mostly rain here as the temperatures won't quite be cold enough for snow. You're really going to have to go pretty far north to get the snow into the mix.

But by overnight Wednesday and into Thursday, those temperatures starting to creep down in some areas, allowing a few more spots to get some snow or even a rain-snow mix. Heavy rain at times possible across the Tennessee Valley. Even cities like Nashville, Atlanta, and Knoxville could have rain in the forecast. Then by midday Thursday, you're looking at more of that moisture overspreading into the northeast and into the mid-Atlantic.

So, any last-minute travel or local travel on Thanksgiving Day itself, the biggest concerns are going to be the northeast stretching all the way down into the Gulf Coast, where you're going to have the bulk of that really heavy moisture.

So then, the question becomes okay, what about the famous Macy's Day Parade? Here's the thing. We've got that rain coming in. The heaviest will hold off till the afternoon and evening hours of Thursday. So, the first few hours of the parade should in theory be okay, but those rain chances go up very quickly for the back half of the parade. Temperature wise also, not exactly going to be very warm. You're looking at those temperatures likely only in the low 40s.

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TAUSCHE: Take refuge from the rain and snow and head inside and watch CNN for the ultimate Thanksgiving morning watch party. There will be celebrity appearances and a live view of parades across the country. John Berman and Erica Hill host "Thanksgiving in America." It starts at 8 a.m. Thanksgiving morning on CNN and it will stream on Max.

Up ahead, Texas is now the latest Republican-led state to incorporate Christianity in public schools. Why the state's plan to incorporate lessons from the Bible is getting pushback from parents and advocacy groups, and how that resistance could turn into legal challenges. You're in the "CNN Newsroom."

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TAUSCHE: Legal challenges are expected in Texas after the state's Board of Education approved an optional curriculum that incorporates Bible lessons for kids as young as kindergarten. Many parents and advocates pushed back on the proposed curriculum, with some saying it's unconstitutional. CNN's Rosa Flores reports.

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ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A big win for the Republican-led effort to infuse Christianity into public schools.

UNKNOWN: 8-7 the motion passes.

FLORES (voice-over): Officials in Texas approved a controversial public school curriculum called Bluebonnet Learning that critics say disproportionately focuses on Christianity.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Please vote no.

FLORES (voice-over): The days-long debate at times becoming heated.

UNKNOWN: Please respect the rules.

FLORES (voice-over): Both sides voicing strong opinions.

UNKNOWN: Public schools are not Sunday schools.

UNKNOWN: These biblical references do not constitute an establishment of religion.

FLORES (voice-over): The Texas Education Agency defending its curriculum telling CNN Bluebonnet Learning incorporates multiple faiths and religious content is a small part of the product. Reaction outside schools in Houston? Mixed.

UNKNOWN: Kids need the Bible.

UNKNOWN: I just don't think it has a place in school.

FLORES (voice-over): And while these controversial K through 5 lessons are optional, some are concerned the state-funded $60 per student incentive could encourage even some progressive budget- strapped schools to adopt Bluebonnet Learning.

RYAN FIRTH, DAD OF SECOND GRADER IN HOUSTON: There are better ways to spend that money than giving it to schools that adopt this religious (INAUDIBLE).

FLORES (voice-over): This move in Texas.

RYAN WALTERS, OKLAHOMA STATE SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION: I will now say a prayer. And to be clear, students, you don't have to join. I pray in particular for President Donald Trump.

FLORES (voice-over): Coming just days after Oklahoma State superintendent announced the purchase of over 500 Trump-approved Bibles for classes across the state.

WALTERS: We're not telling kids they have to pray, but we are telling kids they have the right to pray if they so choose.

FLORES (voice-over): A group of Oklahoma parents, teachers and ministers filed a lawsuit against the state's top educator after he ordered the Bible be taught in public schools. The case is ongoing. In Louisiana, the legal fight over a law requiring the Ten Commandments be displayed in public school classrooms has been temporarily blocked.

Why is religion in schools such a flashpoint right now?

MARK JONES, POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR, RICE UNIVERSITY: Well, I think one issue is because for Republicans, it's an issue that mobilizes debate.

FLORES (voice-over): Mark Jones, a political science professor at Rice University. Says President-elect Donald Trump's push for Christianity in schools --

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DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: We will support bringing back prayer to our schools.

FLORES (voice-over): And his influence could help spread the Bluebonnet curriculum to other states across the country.

JONES: Especially since the Bluebonnet Learning curriculum is open source. It's something that other states could adopt relatively quickly and relatively easily, and it's free.

FLORES (voice-over): But like similar efforts in other states, this one, too, is expected to end up in the courts.

(on camera): And at least one advocacy organization says that it has attorneys ready for the legal fight. Here's a statement from the Americans United for separation of church and state. Quote -- "We urge all Texas school districts not to implement this curriculum. If families learn their public schools are using this curriculum, our attorneys are standing by and ready to defend their religious freedom."

If Bluebonnet Learning survives the expected legal fight, it would be available for instruction during the 2025-2026 school year.

Rosa Flores, CNN, Houston.

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TAUSCHE: Rosa, thank you. Up ahead, senators are hunkering down for what's shaping up to be bruising confirmation fights over some of President-elect Trump's unorthodox cabinet picks, with some warning Trump that the process could be long and invasive. You're in the "CNN Newsroom."

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