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"Paralyzing" Lake-Effect Snow Hits Great Lakes Region; Trump Meets Canadian PM Trudeau Amid Tariff Tensions; NYT: Dems Considering New, Younger Leadership In Trump Era; GOP To Control Congress With Slim House Majority; Australia Bans Social Media For Those Under 16; Musk's X Joining InfoWars Bankruptcy Fight; Fight Erupts After OSU & Michigan Game, Pepper Spray Reportedly Used; Stowaway Kicked Off Return Flight After Causing Disturbance. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired November 30, 2024 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[16:59:33]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. And I'm Jessica Dean in New York.

Paralyzing snowfall and freezing temperatures hitting most of the U.S. this Thanksgiving weekend. Lake-effect snow is more than three feet in parts of the Great Lakes region, with the worst still to come.

Pennsylvania's Governor Josh Shapiro, issuing a disaster declaration for Erie County and mobilizing the Pennsylvania National Guard after heavy snowfall shut down several highways in that area.

Nearly 2 million people, now under lake-effect snow warnings through Monday.

Let's go now to CNN meteorologist Allison Chinchar with the latest on this treacherous snowfall and bone-chilling temperatures we are seeing all across the U.S., Allison.

ALLISON CHINCHAR, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Heavy bands of lake-effect snow have been going off and on throughout the day today, and are expected to continue as we go through the day Sunday, not just across portions of Michigan, but also Ohio, Pennsylvania, and New York.

And it's specifically portions of Lake Erie and Lake Ontario, where we're likely to see some of the heaviest snow bands come through in the next 24 to 36 hours.

But we also have a separate system that's bringing some snowfall. This is going to stretch right there along Interstate-70 that runs through Saint Louis and continues eastward into southern Indiana, portions of Kentucky as well as West Virginia.

Now, snowfall totals there are not expected to be quite as much. Most of these areas looking at about 2 to 5 inches total. Whereas farther to the north, now we're going to be measuring it in feet. In total we're looking at possibly 4 to 6 feet of snow across portions of the northeast, right there along the Great Lakes.

Now that's the total. That does not (INAUDIBLE) will count everything that started on Friday all the way through today and continuing into the day on Sunday.

Again, some pretty substantial amounts here. It's been causing traffic problems up and down Interstate-90 stretching from Buffalo back through Cleveland and portions of Interstate-81 near Watertown as well. And that could continue through the evening hours tonight and as well into Sunday, especially as those bands get thicker and heavier as they continue through the day.

Another concern is going to be the Buffalo Bills game that takes place on Sunday night. Not only do they have all the snow that's already fallen and will continue to fall, but then the snow that's going to fall during the game itself. It could be coming down quite heavy at times.

Those temperatures kind of hovering right at or below the freezing mark for much of the game. But they're not the only place that's going to be cold. In fact, 70 percent of the U.S. population is looking at temperatures at or below freezing at some point over the next several days.

And it goes pretty far south, too. This isn't just a problem for northern cities. Atlanta, Dallas -- all looking at those temperatures well below where they normally would be this time of year and they're going to stay there for quite some time.

Look at New York City. Every single one of the next seven days is expected to be below 49 degrees, which is where they normally would be this time of year.

DEAN: All right. Allison Chinchar, thank you so much.

Down in Florida, President-Elect Donald Trump turning up the heat on America's top two trading partners, threatening to slap 25 percent tariffs on goods coming into America from Mexico and Canada.

Before Trump officially takes office, Canada's prime minister is trying to ease tensions, traveling to Mar-a-Lago for a face-to-face meeting with Trump.

CNN's Alayna Treene is live in West Palm Beach, Florida for us with more details on this.

So Alayna, what is the readout from both men on this meeting.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Well, we heard both of them share just a short reply or a short social media post, I should say, about how this meeting went.

Donald Trump earlier today said that it was a very productive meeting and that they had talked about trade about fentanyl and the drugs coming over the border -- something that Donald Trump has been highlighting in conversations both behind closed doors and in publicly as a reason for why he would want to impose such steep tariffs on Canada.

But also said they talked about energy and the arctic partnership overall, saying it was a great meeting.

We heard similar things from Justin Trudeau, who also posted a photo of them on social media. He also told reporters this morning that they had an excellent conversation.

Now, I think it's really important to highlight here, Jessica, about the significance of this, though, because we know as you mentioned, that just earlier this week, Donald Trump had issued that threat to really have a massive hike in tariffs on all products coming from Canada as well as Mexico.

And that did, you know, we saw Trudeau respond very quickly to that yesterday. Just hours before he had left for that kind of surprise meeting with Donald Trump at Mar-a-Lago. He had addressed that tariff threat and said, you have to take him at his word when he makes threats like this, when he makes statements like this. You have to assume that he will carry them out.

And so I think that's part of the reason you saw him swiftly go to Mar-a-Lago in person to meet with Trump and kind of, you know work on their relationship in person.

I'd also note that he's the first G7 leader to come and meet with Donald Trump since the November 5th election.

But I also want to give some context about their relationship because, you know, in his first term, Donald Trump also had to work with Justin Trudeau, particularly when it related to trade there as well.

He talked about -- or excuse me, they had Donald Trump had issued tariffs on Canada then while they were renegotiating the North America Free Trade Agreement.

And so, they've been down this road before. So I think what Trudeau is really trying to do here was smooth relations, show up in person and see how real that threat from Donald Trump is.

[17:04:52]

TREENE: I will note as well though, that in that social media post that Donald Trump issued today, he didn't mention at all the word "tariffs" but also his threat from earlier this week. So I found that interesting as well.

DEAN: Yes, for sure.

And I also want to ask you about some news that came today as President-Elect Trump announcing his pick for the U.S. ambassador to France, Charles Kushner. Of course, he is the father-in-law of Trump's daughter Ivanka, father of Jared Kushner.

He was pardoned by Trump in 2020 after pleading guilty to tax evasion and making illegal campaign donations. Alayna, what more have you learned about this selection?

Well, it's really interesting, Jessica, and I know you know this as well. When a president has these different appointments they can make for ambassadors, the ambassador -- the U.S. ambassador to France, is kind of thought of as a cushy -- no pun intended -- role for certain people, for donors. They often give out some of these to big donors, to strong allies.

And so its notable that he is now doing this, giving this role to Charles Kushner, someone who is within the family.

And also to just talk about, you know, Charles Kushner's past. We know that, as you mentioned, Donald Trump had pardoned him for crimes he had committed in the early 2000. Trump pardoned him in 2020.

But what's notable about that, as well is Chris Christie, was actually the prosecutor who brought those charges against Charles Kushner. Then he was the U.S. attorney in that case.

Thats also something that Christie has since argued. He had kind of gave responsibility for, for losing some of his standing early on in the first administration due to that -- his involvement.

And so some interesting dynamics there. But, yes Charles Kushner, his son-in-law's father, now being given this really big post, but also one that is viewed by many people as one of the spots that they would like in an administration, Jessica.

(CROSSTALK)

DEAN: All right. Alayna Treene for us in West Palm Beach, thank you for that reporting.

And joining us now, Democratic strategist and former White House director of messaging planning under President Biden Meghan Hays, and Republican strategist and former White House spokesperson under President George W. Bush, Pete Seat.

Good to see both of you.

PETE SEAT, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Hello.

DEAN: Hi. Pete, I want to start first with you, and let's go back to the tariffs that we were talking about there. What do you make -- I mean, look, I think in these cases, actions speak pretty loudly.

And the fact that Justin Trudeau flew to Florida to sit with President-Elect Trump tells you a lot about what he, you know, what Trudeau is trying to kind of heat-off (pH) these big tariffs. What do you think of what we are seeing play out with the leaders from Canada and also Mexico with the president-elect.

SEAT: Well, the prime minister of Canada did not go to Mar-a-Lago for some November sunshine. He went there because he took this threat very seriously. About 75 percent of Canadian exports come to the United States of

America. A large percentage of that is my personal maple syrup consumption. But nevertheless, he is taking this seriously and he has the benefit of having worked with Donald Trump before.

He knows how this game is played, and he knows that Donald Trump is unpredictable and that he also has a power of his voice and the power of his sharpie.

And come January 20th, 2025, he could very well sign tariffs into law and make them realistic. And that would harm not just the Canadian economy, but certainly the Mexican economy as well.

So not surprised to see Trudeau hightail it to Mar-a-Lago. And I would not be surprised if the Mexican president follows suit in just a couple of days.

(CROSSTALK)

DEAN: Meghan, I just -- yes, go ahead. Go ahead.

Yes, Meghan, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.

MEGHAN HAYS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Look, I mean, I think yes, they're going to harm the Mexican economy as well as the Canadian economy, but it's also going to harm the middle class right here in the United States. And these are the people who voted for Donald Trump.

Most economists on the campaign said that this is going to add $4,000 to the bottom line of people's pocket. You know, people's bottom lines that they cannot afford to have. And it's going to make housing prices -- we get a ton of lumber from Canada -- it's going to make housing prices increase even more in an already unaffordable market.

I just think that being a bully is probably not the best strategy. We should probably have some diplomatic approach here and work with our neighbors to the north and to the south, because this will not just harm their economies, it will massively impact our middle class here in the United States.

DEAN: And so Pete, how does Trump thread the needle then because I, you know, obviously he says he's negotiating on the -- on behalf of the American people.

But to Meghan's point, a number of economists have said if these tariffs go into place, it will raise prices for so many goods here in America. But -- and which would harm so many people in terms of their financial situation.

At the same time, there's this thinking that Trumps just negotiating. He's trying to get a better deal, that he wouldn't put these huge tariffs on. He knows better than to do that.

[17:09:45]

DEAN: I don't pretend to know what he's actually thinking in his mind. Only he knows that. But where do you see him and how do you see him if you can threading the needle between kind of those two places?

SEAT: Well, the inflation that we've had in the last several years and the lack of affordability for everyday goods has been a result of bad economic policy from the Biden-Harris White House.

If these tariffs are put into place, and that is a big if -- bold, italicized, underlined if -- these tariffs are put into place, I think a lot of Americans, particularly those who voted for Donald Trump, are willing to stomach the price increases, and I hear this constantly, if they know that the short-term economic pain is going to lead to a solution on what has been a long-term challenge for this country.

So if they can see the cause-and-effect, they will be willing to pay a little bit more for those exports that we get from Mexico and Canada.

DEAN: Do you think that's possible, Meghan, that -- if that, if that plays out, the way that Pete is illustrating there, is there a scenario where Trump gets credit for something like this?

HAYS: Well, I don't think that people are going to be willing to stomach the cost of raising prices on things like groceries and vegetables and fruits, where we get 70 percent of our vegetables from Mexico.

I also think it's going to impact jobs when we don't have lumber coming to build houses, not only the affordability, but that will impact jobs. So I don't actually think that the American people are going to stomach this.

And I think with the -- in Congress being so close its going to be hard for Trump to get anything passed anyways and when you're a lame duck president, you only have two years before you go into the midterms and he's going to set his party up for what could be -- we could even Democrats could gain more houses or more seats in the House, excuse me. And set them up really well for '28.

So these are some decisions, political decisions that he's going to have to make. Because I just don't think that Americans are going to stomach losing any more money, whether it be inflation that Pete is saying is the Biden-Harris administrations fault or Donald Trump's tariffs.

D5; Yes. And, Pete, we also know this week that President-Elect Trump, he's talked with Mexico's president. He claimed that Mexico's president agreed to close the border during a phone call with him earlier this week. She denied that very quickly, saying that would never be something that she would consider doing.

What do you make of that particular relationship? Because of course, the southern border played a huge role. Immigration in this election is a very high priority for a lot of American voters.

What do you make of that particular relationship? And also the idea that Trump believes that he can stem the flow of fentanyl and migrants into America with these -- with these tariffs. SEAT: The Mexican president took office on October 1st. So let's just say this is a blossoming relationship. They don't necessarily know each other. They haven't had very many phone calls. I believe there have been two thus far.

The Mexican government though for months -- for months has been talking as if they have secured and sealed the border. They may not use that phrase, but they believe what they've been doing in rounding up migrants, potential illegal immigrants into the United States, on busses and trains and these various highway checkpoints that they've set up, they think that is enough and that they are getting the job done.

But I think the Mexican president realizes that one of the root causes of migration is their struggling economy. And if they're going to get more jobs and have more opportunity for Mexican citizens they cannot have these tariffs slapped on them, which is why I think she will probably go to Florida if not get on the phone.

Donald Trump's probably on her speed dial by now. Get on the phone again really quick after she sees that Trudeau was there.

DEAN: Meghan, your thoughts on that?

HAYS: Yes, I mean, I definitely think they need to work on their relationship. They don't know each other. She's also new. But we also don't know what was actually said in these calls because he hasn't signed the transition papers. So we're not doing this the right way with the State Department and involved in other people. So there's a national security aspect to this too.

But I don't think she is making point (ph) that she doesn't want to be bullied. She wants to have a conversation. She wants to go at this a diplomatic way and have diplomatic conversations.

And Donald Trump doesn't want to do that with her yet. So she's just putting it out there that I won't be bullied. Let's have real conversations. We are here to be a good partner to you. And they will work on their relationship.

But I just think that Donald Trump's ways is just a bully and to throw things out there that aren't true, and she's just pointblank wasn't going to stand for it.

DEAN: It will be interesting to see how their relationship develops. As Pete noted and Meghan, this is a new relationship, so that will be interesting to watch.

Pete and Meghan, stay with us. We're going to come back to you guys.

Still ahead, a major scuffle erupts at the end of the Ohio State and Michigan rivalry game. Players wiping their eyes and coughing in the aftermath of that brawl.

[17:14:47]

DEAN: What we're learning about if pepper spray may have been used on those players.

Plus, a trial run for a world first law. Australia banning children under 16 from using social media. Will that measure actually work?

And a stowaway sneaks onto a Delta flight from New York to Paris. How that passenger evaded multiple airport security checks and what will happen to her next.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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[17:19:52]

DEAN: House Democrats gearing up for a new fight, but this time inside their own party.

The "New York Times" reporting that as Democrats look for a change in leadership, they are quote, "considering pushing aside some of their most senior leaders from top posts in the next Congress", and quote "elevating more combative, slightly younger lawmakers over aging bulls to take on Republicans in this new Trump era."

The paper goes on to say the focus is sweeping Congressman Jerry Nadler out of his position as the top Democrat on the Judiciary Committee, with dozens of Democrats backing Congressman Jamie Raskin for that spot.

We're back now with our panel, Meghan Hays and Pete Seat. Good to have you back both with us.

Meghan, I just start -- I want to start first with your thoughts on what I just kind of laid out. If you think that is a smarter more effective way to take on this new Trump administration for Democrats.

HAYS: Look, I think the Democratic Party realizes that they are out of touch with the rest of the electorate.

And I think if Democrats want to continue to win elections or want to start winning elections again, they're going to need to move to the middle and have a change in leadership and a change in how we approach things.

I'm not sure that we need to push all of the old guard out and replace them all with new, but I do think it would be good to bring some newer folks up in the ranks, not just as electeds, but as operatives and consultants as well.

So I do think it is worthwhile taking a look at where everyone needs to go, but it would be nice to have some change.

DEAN: Yes. And Pete, what do you think? Do you think that Democrats can have more success in this next Trump era with replacing some of these older people in these positions of power, especially on the Hill. SEAT: I am pro younger people on both sides of the aisle. But I think that this era shows us you cannot be a wallflower. This is not the think first -- think before you speak 1980s, 1990s. This is the speak first, act second, apologize never 2020s.

And if you're going to advance any policy priorities, we see that with Donald Trump and the Republican Party. And the Democrats are probably going to need to embrace some level of that if they want to get something done on their side.

DEAN: Yes. And Meghan, I am curious what your thoughts are on this because you worked for President Joe Biden for many years. He, of course, is -- has been in Washington for many, many decades, has had this very storied career on the hill before becoming vice president and then obviously onto president.

Do you think this is a different -- different game that's being played now.

HAYS: Yes, I do. I think the media is different. The way people consume media and news is different. The 24-hour news cycle moves even quicker now because of TikTok. And things are just -- things just move quicker. And I think that people are more divisive and people are more extreme on both sides.

And I do think that you need a younger generation to have different ideas with climate change and some of the other things that are facing our country that were not facing our country, you know, 30 -- 40 years ago when some of these folks were at the peak of their careers.

So I do think it is important, and I do think that it's just politics is just different now and it's more divisive. And we need to have different mindsets and different leadership.

DEAN: And Pete, as I'm thinking about the House specifically, Republicans are going to hold the slimmest of majorities in the House and Trump is taking three Republicans for top administration jobs.

Talk to us about what you think the dynamics are going to be as they try to govern in the House. Because we watched how that was very chaotic with the speaker's race and trying to wrangle all of the members. And they needed help from Democrats a few times to get -- to get some major legislation passed, raising the debt ceiling, things like that.

How do you see that playing out?

SEAT: Mandate, mandate, mandate is what we keep hearing, right? Because Donald Trump won and therefore he should get everything that he wants, everything that Republicans want.

But the executive branch is not a preeminent branch of the federal government. There are three co-equal branches and even when you have a majority of the same party in the House and the Senate as the White House, they're going to want to make sure that their voice is heard. So with those slim majorities, I keep telling my Republican friends,

let's simmer down the gloating. This is not going to be smooth sailing for the next two years. There's going to be negotiation just like there is with the Canadians and the Mexicans on some of the policy priorities moving forward.

With these slim majorities in both the House and the Senate, it's likely I think one cabinet nominee is probably going to bite the dust. We'll probably see a couple of policy priorities not make it through, but all in all, it will be a productive two years because they know what the charge is from the American people on the economy on affordability and on the border.

DEAN: And Meghan, how do you expect Democrats on the Hill to respond over the next couple of years.

HAYS: I think that they will do things that they think impacts the American people.

I think they will work on immigration with the Republicans and on the economy with the Republicans.

[17:24:47]

HAYS: But I don't think that you're going to see a lot of extreme bills coming out of the House of Representatives. I don't think that they will be able to get things passed without Democratic support.

So things that are directly impacting the middle class and the economy, for instance, those are the things that they're going to work together on. But I think some of the other extreme measures, they're not going to get through.

DEAN: And I just want to ask you two just -- just putting a bow on the campaign for 2024.

Politico is reporting ongoing -- about these ongoing fundraising emails from the Harris campaign that they're turning people off, that it might further alienate people from supporting Democrats. It's reporting that the Harris campaign ended its run $20 million in debt. What do you think of all of that, Meghan?

HAYS: So look, campaigns normally end in debt, whether you win or lose. But if you lose a campaign, you better be in debt because you better left it all out on the field is the way I sort of look at it. People can ignore the emails, they can not respond. They don't need to give money.

But the fact of the matter is, they do need a debt raise. They do need to start going into the midterms with a full war chest. So I don't -- it's not surprising that they are raising money and that they are trying to pay off this debt quickly.

I understand that it is offensive or can turn people off, but people should unsubscribe. But this is this is pretty normal for campaigns. Most campaigns I've worked on, win or lose, they end in debt. DEAN: Yes. All right last word from Pete on all of that.

SEAT: It's unfortunately all too normal. It could erode trust. But here's my flippant response, Jessica. Can you really go further down than zero? Theres not a whole lot of trust in this business right now. So I don't know that they can lose any more.

DEAN: And Meghan brings up the midterms. They will be here before we know it. Just two short years from now. We'll live through those too.

Pete Seat and Meghan Hays, our thanks to both of you. We really appreciate it.

HAYS: Thank you Jess.

DEAN: Yes.

SEAT: Thank you.

Still ahead, Australia bans social media for everyone under the age of 16 in an effort to protect their mental health. Why some say they doubt that these new measures can actually work.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

[17:26:43]

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[17:31:08]

DEAN: Australia is now the first country in the world to pass a landmark law banning everyone under the age of 16 from using social media apps like TikTok and Instagram.

It is an effort to keep them safe from bullying, peer pressure and anxiety that can damage their mental health.

CNN's Hanako Montgomery has the latest on this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HANAKO MONTGOMERY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): How kids use social media is a problem millions of parents face, and Australia says it's now found a solution.

ANTHONY ALBANESE, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: World-leading action to make sure social media companies meet their social responsibility. Social media is doing harm to our children.

MONTGOMERY: Under Australia's new law, kids under 16 are banned from accessing social media platforms. And tech companies breaking the rules could face fines in the tens of millions.

(on camera): But the bill, rushed through in just a week, is drawing criticism from those not convinced it'll keep kids off the Internet. SARAH HANSON-YOUNG, AUSTRALIAN SENATOR: I mean, it's almost embarrassing. I mean, this is boomers trying to tell young people how the Internet should work.

MONTGOMERY (voice-over): Tech giants, including Meta and X's Elon Musk, argue more time and evidence are needed before enforcing the ban.

But for some parents, the law couldn't come fast enough.

KELLY O'BRIEN, MOTHER OF CHARLOTTE O'BRIEN, WHO TOOK HER OWN LIFE AFTER ONLINE BULLYING: I will miss your hugs, your kisses, your laugh, your beautiful, beautiful smile.

MONTGOMERY: Twelve-year-old Charlotte O'Brien took her own life, her parents say, after years of being bullied online.

Cases like hers and Allem Halkic, who ended his life at 17, have driven Australia's push to protect kids from online harm.

ALI HALKIC, FATHER OF ALLEM HALKIC: If that was in place today, I know he would be alive. And that's some of the guilt that I have to live with every day.

MONTGOMERY: Australia's new law is divisive, but for grieving families, it's a fight worth leading.

Hanako Montgomery CNN, Tokyo.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: So let's talk more about this with CNN media analyst and senior media correspondent for Axios, Sara Fischer.

Hi, Sara. Thanks for coming on.

SARA FISCHER, CNN MEDIA ANALYST: Thanks for having me, Jessica.

DEAN: Yes. So, OK, let's start first with what these tech companies -- these tech companies are saying that the process to pass this bill was rushed.

We've seen Meta launch Instagram Teen accounts earlier this year. We've seen them try to do some things to mitigate the mental health concerns that people have for these younger children.

But how is the tech industry reacting? And could they potentially adapt to some -- to this to this law?

FISCHER: Yes, they're trying to come out and say we'll be compliant, but it's also kind of unrealistic.

In terms of the rush, Jessica, the Australian government is supposed to put out a report describing how age verification technology could work in this type of an environment.

So that's why they say it was rushed. They believe it should be halted, this law, until we get that report out.

And trying to determine, if you're a tech company, whether or not somebody is actually under 16 is very hard to do. One of the reasons being, if you were to use something like biometrics, you get into a lot of privacy issues.

And it's especially important because children's privacy tends to be more scrutinized around the world than adult privacy.

But even so, Jessica, even if this law is aiming to get at kids who are under 16 to prevent them from using social media, everybody who is, you know, subject to these platforms or wants to use them is going to be subject to those same verification tools.

So they've got a really big challenge on their hands. And I think that their concern is that this bill, which came together within a week, sort of brushes past some of those huge details,

And they don't know how they're going to comply or put something together within a year. That's the deadline that they have.

DEAN: Yes. It seems like a very tall order.

And to your point, for all the reasons you just laid out, it seems incredibly difficult to discern who's 16 and under and who's not, and how to actually verify that.

What is your sense of how quickly these tech companies are going to try to make the turn toward that, or will they wait to see if maybe something happens with this law where they won't have to be subject to all of this?

[17:35:11]

FISCHER: I mean, of course, they're going to try to file for injunctions. That's the natural thing that you would expect here.

But, yes, they're going to try to do whatever they can on the back end. I mean, these fines can be somewhat punitive if you're looking at 50 million USD for violations. And that could be per user or per time period.

And so they don't want to have to be in a position where they yank their services because they can't adhere to the law.

And, Jessica, that is not something that's totally uncommon. When Australia passed a law that required these tech platforms to bargain with news companies, Meta and other services temporarily pulled their -- their news on their platforms because they were worried that if they couldn't comply, they we're going to get fined.

So these companies have a real impetus to try to make this law work. The challenge, like I said before, though, is nobody has figured out age verification on the Internet. And you know, in this law, they're trying to put the onus on these tech platforms. Tech platforms have tried to put the onus not just on parents, but also on device manufacturers saying, well, it's easier if you're a laptop company or a phone company to verify the age of a user who's going to use tens of dozens of Web sites and apps than us to do it.

And so I think this is going to be a messy battle. And it will set a precedent for global laws around privacy and age verification.

DEAN: It's kind of fascinating.

I also want to ask you about this dinner that Mark Zuckerberg had with President-Elect Donald Trump at Mar-a-Lago. Of course, interesting for a lot of reasons, but I think one especially interesting reason is because Trump has threatened Zuckerberg with jail in the past.

And obviously, as we're seeing with so many people, both in tech companies and politics, they are trying to go down there and talk to him and try and, you know, just try to smooth things over before he gets into office.

FISCHER: Yes. And Meta is in a really precarious position, Jessica, because during Trump's first administration, the FTC, the Federal Trade Commission, brought forth a major antitrust case against the company that could threaten possibly to unwind it's mergers of Instagram and WhatsApp, which are critical to its business.

That case, Jessica, goes to trial next year. And so Mark Zuckerberg has a very big regulatory impetus for meeting with Donald Trump.

And then also you want to make sure that, as a tech company, you're advocating for things that benefit the entire sector. Meta has been very aggressive in pushing sort of not anti-China legislation, but kind of, you know, underhandedly saying, look, if you we're to ban TikTok, that helps with American innovation, right?

So they're not outwardly calling for the ban, but they have a lot of skin in the game for things that are, you know, related to the Trump administration outside of big tech, things like China.

DEAN: And also, lastly, Elon Musk, of course, also very much in Trump's orbit right now.

But his social media company, X, is now joining this legal fight over the sale of Alex Jones' InfoWars. Tell us more about why Musk is getting involved in this.

FISCHER: Yes, it's really wild because you very rarely see a social media company come out in support of this type of -- this type of court proceeding.

And the reason being, Jessica, a lot of social media companies, within their terms of service, say that they own the account, but they don't like to publicize it. And they don't like to sort of legally get involved in that kind of case because doing so would imply that they have real big ownership of these accounts.

And you don't want to dissuade your biggest users from investing everything they have and building up their followings.

And so it's a rare thing for someone to come out and do this. I think the reason that Elon Musk is doing this, obviously, personal politics plays into this, you know, Alex Jones, right wing, et cetera.

But I also think it's this is him sort of declaring to courts, to the business community, to his users, I own this platform, I own your accounts, and I can do whatever I want with them.

DEAN: All right, Sara Fischer, as always, it is great to see you. Thank you so much for being here.

FISCHER: Good to see you, Jessica.

DEAN: Still ahead, a fight at the end of the Ohio State and Michigan rivalry game. Players were wiping their eyes and coughing in the aftermath of this, after reports of pepper spray potentially being used. We're going to talk more about that.

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[17:38:56]

ANNOUNCER: And now there's some skirmishes going on, on the field.

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[17:43:36]

DEAN: An ugly brawl at the end of the Ohio State and Michigan football game. Players fighting at midfield as the Wolverines were celebrating an upset win over the Buckeyes in Columbus.

Stadium security and police coming in. There are reports pepper spray was used on the players to defuse the situation.

CNN sports anchor, Patrick Snell, is joining us now.

Patrick, some of these videos that are circulating online, it does not look good.

PATRICK SNELL, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Hi, Jessica.

You're absolutely right. Yes. it's not a good look at all. There's no -- there's no question about that. This is one of the biggest rivalries. Just for context. It's a bitter rivalry as well at times when you come to college football over here in the United States. It's the 120th time Ohio State and Michigan have squared off. And the ending marred what had been a really intense and terrific game. I have to say, Michigan beating Ohio State for the fourth straight time, 13 to 10, in Columbus.

And just after the game went final, this is when it all flared up. A Wolverines player trying to plant their big blue flag in the Buckeyes logo at midfield. Ohio State players confronting him and dozens of players coming together. There you can see just how heated it's getting by this point.

Lots of players pushing and shoving, several punches also thrown as well. It took a number of minutes for Ohio stadium security and Columbus police to separate the sides.

Multiple reports saying authorities used pepper spray to diffuse the situation. Actually, seen some video of some players wiping their eyes and coughing while the brawl was happening.

[17:45:07]

Both teams speaking about the incident afterwards. Let's take a listen.

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KALAL MULLINGS, MICHIGAN RUNNING BACK: You hate to see stuff like that after the game.

You know, it's just bad for the sport, bad for college football. But at the end of the day, you know, some people got to -- they got to learn how to lose, man. You can't -- you can't be fighting and stuff just because you lost the game.

You know, all that fighting, we had 60 minutes, we had four quarters to do all that fighting. And now people want to talk and fight. That's wrong.

RYAN DAY, OHIO STATE HEAD COACH: I know that, you know, these guys, you know, are looking to, you know, put a flag on our field and our guys weren't going to let that happen, So you know, you all find out exactly what happened.

But, you know, this is -- this is our field and, certainly, you know we're embarrassed with the fact that we lost the game. But, you know, there's some prideful guys on this team that weren't just going to let that happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SNELL: Well, CNN has reached out to Ohio State University police and Columbus police as well for more information on the incident and the use of the pepper spray.

And, Jessica, it's sad to see. It's just not a good look for the sport is not good for the image of such a storied rivalry, and to see it end this way. Highly concerning.

We'll be tracking it every step of the way. We'll see what happens next in the aftermath of it all, because you can be sure, Jessica, there is much more to come on this.

Back to you.

DEAN: No doubt about it.

Patrick Snell, thanks for the reporting.

Still ahead, a new twist in the case of a stowaway who flew from New York to Paris. Why is she still in France tonight after a plan to send her back to the U.S. fell apart.

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[17:51:08]

DEAN: A live look now at snow falling in St. Louis. Several inches of snow expected in that region today as part of a winter storm impacting several states.

And you see it really coming down there. We'll have more for you on that in the next hour.

In the meantime, tonight, a new twist in the case of that stowaway who snuck onto a flight from New York to Paris.

She was set to be deported back to the U.S. today but was apparently removed from the plane after causing a disturbance. And she remains in Paris tonight with a new flight still to be scheduled.

All of this as investigators are working to figure out how she got through multiple security checkpoints at JFK airport undetected.

CNN's Holmes Lybrand has the latest on this investigation.

Holmes, a lot of people have a lot of questions about this one. What are you hearing from officials?

HOLMES LYBRAND, CNN REPORTER: That's right. Jessica. It's definitely a strange story. And what we know from investigators is that this woman, who's in her late 50s, she has a Russian passport. She also has a U.S. green card.

And she sought asylum in France several years ago. Now, she was able to avoid detection in two security checkpoints, which were really identity verification stations, which included the boarding pass, the boarding process itself.

So actually getting on the plane where they check your boarding pass and your I.D. She was able to somehow skirt that. Now that is, of course, on the airline.

That's not something TSA controls. But what TSA does control is a separate identity checkpoint, which she was also able to skirt around.

Now she was -- she did go through the TSA screening, that initial screening that everyone goes on before getting on a flight. She did go through that.

So she also avoided detection on the aircraft itself, which is a long flight. And she seemed to do this by jumping between laboratories during what one passenger called a full flight.

Now, upon arrival, she was detected and Paris authorities arrested her, detained her.

And as you mentioned, this flight back to the U.S. to send her back to the U.S., she actually became unruly on that flight and was kind of kicked off.

And a new flight has not been scheduled. So it's unclear when she will return to the U.S.

DEAN: It is fascinating.

Do we know, is she likely to face charges once she gets back to the U.S.?

LYBRAND: She certainly could face charges. There's a lot of different charges she could face, both from the state, federal and also from TSA. TSA could file a civil penalty, which is akin to a fine. You could also face theft of service from port authorities.

So that all remains to be seen. And it's unclear where those charging decisions will come down and if she'll be arrested once she returns to the U.S.

DEAN: All right, Holmes Lybrand, live with the latest reporting on this story. Thank you so much for that.

We are introducing you to the 2024 top-five CNN Heroes. Thirteen years ago, while in recovery from meth addiction, Stephen Knight agreed to rescue one dog to help a friend who was going to rehab.

And that experience turned into his life's mission, making sure people can seek the substance abuse treatment they need and also know that their pet will be safe and waiting for them when they're healthy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN KNIGHT, CNN HERO: When somebody makes that decision to go into treatment, it's one of the bravest decisions they'll make.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll see you soon, OK?

KNIGHT: When people do need to go to rehab and they don't have a place to put the dog, what we're finding out is how big of a need it is.

We provide free, temporary fostering services for people that are ready to change their life. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Guys, she hasn't seen me in so long. Hey.

(LAUGHTER)

KNIGHT: And it becomes their motivator to stay healthy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, that face.

KNIGHT: When we find a foster, we will do a temporary foster contract. You're saving that dog's life and the owners life. And we're able to prevent a dog going to the shelter.

We cannot have the solution be euthanize these dogs. We can't.

[17:55:02]

I want to be the voice of the dog and to help them. Because they don't have that voice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: And you can go to CNNheroes.com right now to vote for CNN Hero of the Year. Voting is open through December 3rd.

We'll be right back.

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