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Biden Facing Bipartisan Backlash; S. Korean President Declares Martial Law. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired December 03, 2024 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: The bipartisan backlash is growing over President Biden's decision to pardon his son, Hunter. Here's a sample of Democrats sounding off.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA): He didn't need to tell the American public, I will not do this. And he did. And when you've made a promise, you got to keep it.

SEN. MICHAEL BENNET (D-CO): It just gives the American people a sense that there's one system for the rich and powerful and another system for everybody else.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you disappointed by the decision?

SEN. MARK WARMER (D-VA): Yes, I'm disappointed by the decision.

REP. DANIEL GOLDMAN (D-NY): It is discouraging that he has now gone back on his word on that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Joining me now is longtime Republican election attorney Ben Ginsberg. Ben, Trump is now seizing on this opening to pardon people who were convicted in the January 6th attack on the Capitol. I do want to talk about that in a moment, but just, I did want to get your take on the president saying that he pardoned Hunter in part because he thought his son was being targeted for prosecution. You know, what are your thoughts on this?

BEN GINSBERG, REPUBLICAN ELECTION LAWYER: Well, it's easy to understand as a father, but they also had to have known that there would-be real-world consequences for that and tremendous blowback. And this does weaken the rule of law and essentially create a permission structure and precedent for Donald Trump to do what he wants to do in the next round of things.

And you take -- you combine this broad and sweeping pardon he's given his own son with the Supreme Court immunity decision giving presidents far more leeway to do what they're going to do, and all of a sudden you, you've got the country in a kind of difficult position in terms of being able to hold the powerful accountable for their acts. ACOSTA: Yes. I mean, you've been in this game for a long time, Ben. I mean, is the presidential pardon power just really kind of out of control? I mean, you have Trump pardoning his son-in-law's father and making him ambassador to France. I mean, Democrats are bringing that up. And then you have -- I mean, you -- I mean, and perhaps the biggest potential problem for the country is Trump's idea of pardoning January 6 rioters and attackers. I mean, that could unleash all sorts of unintended consequences, or intended consequences for that matter.

GINSBERG: Well, I think intended consequences by Donald Trump. I mean, look, the whole January 6th pardon issue is now going to be cast in an entirely different light because of the Hunter Biden pardon. And that's where we get in trouble. I mean, courts have found that the January 6th rioters were guilty and responsible. Juries of their peers convicted them in cases. And now, Donald Trump is going to give him a free pass under the grounds that it was not fair what happened to him. It was an injustice. But that is the same language that Joe Biden used in the Hunter Biden problem.

So, that's going to have a huge consequence in the way this issue plays out. Democrats, I think, thought they had a real way to draw a contrast between they would -- the way they would handle government and pardons and the way Donald Trump did. And now, that's sort of been weakened a great deal.

ACOSTA: Isn't there a little bit of a false equivalency, though, in that we've seen president's pardoned relatives in the past, Bill Clinton and Roger Clinton on and so on. I mean, we have seen the pardon power used to get relatives off the hook. It's just it has been there.

GINSBERG: It has. I think what's a little bit different about this is two things. Number one, it was so sweeping. It was for all crimes that may have been committed for nearly an 11-year period. That was not the case with the earlier pardons. And of course, most significantly as the Democratic senators, you just showed on tape, said, he said he wouldn't do this and now he's done.

ACOSTA: Yes. You know, I do want to talk about the the January 6th pardon possibility that we might see here in the coming weeks. One of those imprisoned is Stewart Rhodes the founder of the Oath Keepers. His ex-wife says she fears for her life if he's released. And Trump's team says pardon decisions will be made on a case-by-case basis. We saw the violence on January 6th. Are we talking about potentially dangerous people being freed for political reasons and that there could be real people harmed as a result of this?

[10:35:00]

GINSBERG: Yes, there could. I mean, that's why the Trump folks were smart to say they were doing it on a case-by-case basis as opposed to issuing a blanket pardon because among the people who got put in jail, there could be real-life consequences for people who are not in jail and are members of their families or people who came across them. So, that the case-by-case pardon approach is actually the right one to take in this instance. ACOSTA: Yes. All right. And as we were talking about in the previous segment, I mean, much of what -- I mean, all of what took place on January 6th was predicated on something that did not occur, which is that the 2020 election was fair and legitimate in this country. All right. Ben Ginsberg, thank you very much. We appreciate it.

We're following breaking developments out of South Korea at this hour. The president of South Korea declaring martial law. You're seeing some video that has just been coming in the last several minutes. We're going to tell you about what this video means and what it could mean in the hours ahead. More on the other side of the break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:40:00]

ACOSTA: All right. I want to go back to the breaking news out of South Korea. You can see some video coming in to CNN just a few moments ago. The president there has just declared martial law. He made the announcement in a late-night TV address saying it's needed to protect the country from, quote, "communist forces," as he's describing.

This is a live look outside the National Assembly right now. You can see members, what appears to be the military, having a skirmish with what appears to be some protesters there at the National Assembly building.

Let's bring in CNN military analyst, Colonel Cedric Leighton with his insights. Colonel Leighton, I mean, I've traveled to South -- traveled to Seoul on presidential trips. I mean, this is very strange and unusual to see something like this coming out of South Korea. But just for some context, the chief of South Korea -- of the South Korean president's own political party, we're just hearing this in the last several minutes at CNN, has condemned the introduction of martial law and he has said that the move is wrong. And so, even the president's own political party is not in agreement with what's happening here.

COL CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, that's right, Jim. And with the leader of the president's party saying this, it seems to me that this declaration of martial law will be short lived. What we're seeing here, I believe these are actually SWAT team members, although they do look like they're in military gear.

And it seems as if they are controlling access to the National Assembly, as you mentioned. And what that means is the members of the opposition party were going into -- were trying to get into the National Assembly to cast a vote because under the South Korean Constitution, martial law can be -- a declaration of martial law can be revoked if a majority of the members of the National Assembly vote to revoke it. So, that's what the opposition is trying to do. And it sounds like they would get support from members of the president's own party. If that's the case, then the president basically has no leg to stand on in a political sense. ACOSTA: Yes. I mean, it's very important context. And thank you for the clarification on the folks in the militaristic uniforms there. You're absolutely right. We should get that exactly right if we can.

But the current president of South Korea, he represents the conservative People Power Party has served as president of South Korea since 2022. He won election by a razor thin margin. So, there's obviously some domestic political undercurrents and all of this. But at the same time, the opposition leader is calling all of this unconstitutional and saying tanks, armored vehicles, soldiers with guns will soon control the country as this leader is putting it, this opposition leader is putting it. You're not convinced that it may get that bad, that it may go that route? Is that right, Colonel Leighton? Is that what I'm hearing? If they can have this vote, that might -- it might cut this short?

LEIGHTON: Yes, exactly. If they can have that vote. But of course, if they're prevented from getting into the National Assembly and can't have a quorum, then that vote might -- it might be difficult to achieve. But it looks like we're seeing pictures from the chamber right there. So, I think they're trying to establish a quorum and we might see this returned in the next few hours if they can get that quorum together.

And, you know, what it does, Jim, is this kind of hearkens back to a time in South Korea's history in the 1970s and early 1980s, where martial law was actually the law of the land in South Korea. They had military dictatorships or dictatorships of, you know, various types that used the excuse of possible North Korean infiltration, North Korean attacks as being a way in which they could, in essence, control at least the political life of South Korea. That, of course, changed in 1987 when the South Koreans established their current democratic form of government. And as you mentioned, it was -- it's been highly successful up until this point.

ACOSTA: Absolutely. And currently, give us some perspective on all this. Donald Trump comes into the White House January 20th. He has had a very interesting relationship with the North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un. South Korea is an extremely important ally to the U.S. in that context. I mean, they have been there for the U.S. in terms of, you know, keeping a watchful eye on the North Koreans all these years.

[10:45:00]

LEIGHTON: Yes, absolutely. And in fact, the relationship is so strong that we do a lot of sharing in a military sense and an intelligence sense with the South Koreans. When you go to some of our field sites in the intelligence world in South Korea, you will see American and South Korean soldiers sitting side by side and conducting admissions operations together, and they've done so for many decades.

I -- and this relationship is one that is really one of the linchpins of our Pacific -- our Indo-Pacific strategy. And it be -- it's very necessary for us to not only maintain that relationship, but also to make sure that it is a strong relationship no matter how many forays a president makes into a place like North Korea. The real key here is to make sure that that relationship with South Korea stays strong. And that is something that is really necessary no matter what happens here.

ACOSTA: All right. Yes, it's critical. We're going to keep our eyes on all of this. Colonel Leighton, thanks, as always, for the expertise. We always know we can turn to you. Thank you so much. We'll be right back.

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[10:50:00]

ACOSTA: All right. We are back with the breaking news. You're looking at live pictures coming in from Seoul, South Korea. The president of South Korea, President Yoon, has declared martial law. He claims he is protecting the country from what he calls communist forces, but as our Mike Valerio is describing at the beginning of this broadcast the president is somewhat controversial and has been dealing with a lot of domestic political undercurrents that have not been going in his direction.

We do have Colonel Leighton. We're trying to get Mike Valerio back up again, but Colonel Leighton, if you're still with me, I do want to show some of these pictures to our viewers. We're continuing to show some of these clashes between some people that you see there and we've been describing it as military troops, what you were just saying a few moments ago, it may just be local police, SWAT team units dressed up in military garb.

And the question becomes in the minutes ahead, Colonel Leighton, as you were just saying, is whether or not the National Assembly can overturn the president's declaration of martial law. But in the meantime, they're in sort of this -- they're on sort of the dark side of the moon at this point, because, really, anything could happen, and this is a live situation that is just unfolding right in front of our eyes right now.

LEIGHTON: Yes, it certainly is, Jim. And one of the things to keep in mind is the police forces in South Korea are actually centrally controlled. So, the Ministry of the Interior is actually the one that directs the movements. So, these would be national police forces that would be coming in to act in a swatting type capacity if that's in fact who they are. And so, far, it looks like that to me.

But you know, obviously, we need to confirm that. But this situation is one in which the political forces of South Korea are really coming to a head at this point. And what we're seeing is not only a demonstration of national will against the sitting president in South Korea, President Yoon, but we're also seeing a movement where they can, you know, in essence, try to find a way out of this because as you started to mention, there are a lot of scandals that are plaguing the administration and there have been some -- there's been some direction to get people back to work.

For example, there's a doctor strike going on in South Korea and the military has told the doctors to get back to work within 48 hours. So, that's some of the undercurrents that we're seeing.

ACOSTA: Yes.

LEIGHTON: It kind of come to the surface at a particular point.

ACOSTA: Yes. I mean, and, Colonel Leighton, I mean, tell us how, I mean, this declaration of martial law might be playing out. I mean, I was just seeing a few moments ago, there have been some reports that essentially what the people of South Korea have been told is that their right to protest has been restricted. Media -- reports from the media have to go through the government it sounds as though at this point. But you can see in this video right here, people are not complying with this. It does not look like the media is complying with this in Seoul right now, and they're trying to -- you can see in this video right here, they're trying to break through some barricades that have been set up. So, this is a very volatile situation right now.

LEIGHTON: Yes, it is a very volatile situation. And if there's something about South Koreans as a people, they are enjoying their relatively recently gained freedoms and they don't want to lose those freedom. They remember what it was like in the 1970s and '80s and even before that when South Korea was basically a militarized state, and they know that they can -- they've enjoyed these freedoms. They have significant economic prosperity, as we all know.

And one of the key aspects of this, Jim, is that with that economic prosperity came a demand for political freedoms, which they finally achieved. And yes, South Korea definitely has political issues. There's no question about that.

ACOSTA: Yes.

LEIGHTON: But they are going to fight to keep those freedoms and to prevent this from happening. So, I think it seems as if President Yoon has overstepped his bounds here, but we'll have to see, of course what happens in the next few minutes.

ACOSTA: I mean, and we can't ignore the echoes of our own history here. I mean, you have these clashes going on inside the national legislature for the people of South Korea. Obviously, you know, Americans can relate to some of these images that we're looking at right now.

[10:55:00]

And when we see the South Korean president, President Yoon, saying that he is protecting his country from quote, "communist forces," I mean, that -- obviously, that sounds like you know, a load of political rhetoric there, if I could put it diplomatically.

LEIGHTON: Yes, I mean, it is in this particular case. Now, one cannot completely discount the threat from North Korea, Jim, because, you know, the North Koreans have spent a lot of time conducting sabotage operations, espionage operations, cyber-attacks, the whole nine yards basically against not only the South Korean government, but major companies in South Korea and the South Korean people at large. You know, it's pretty clear that in this day and age that the communist threat, the threat North Korea is -- while it's there, it is not what is governing the situation in South Korea. The North Koreans are not responsible for the scandals that are plaguing President Yoon. They are not responsible for the political turmoil as we see it right here unfolding in front of our eyes, at least not directly.

And the way President Yoon is using this, it basically amounts to being an excuse for the actions that he took. It seemed to be to protect his power -- to try to protect his power. And you know, like we mentioned earlier, I don't think you'll be successful at this point.

ACOSTA: Well, and in the meantime, it's a tremendously destabilizing situation inside the country of a very important U.S. ally. Colonel Cedric Leighton, we always appreciate the insights. We're monitoring these live pictures as they're coming in from Seoul, South Korea. My colleague Pamela Brown will pick up on our coverage on the other side of the break.

In the meantime. Thank you very much for joining us this morning. My name -- I'm Jim Acosta. Pam Brown, as I said a few moments ago, she's be -- she'll be right back after a short break. Have a good day.

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