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CNN International: South Korean President To Drop Martial Law Order; Trump To Join Macron At Paris' Notre Dame Opening; Syria And Russia Step Up Strikes On Rebels; Why Bosses May Be Encouraging Workers To Resign. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired December 03, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:43]

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN HOST: Welcome, everyone. I'm Omar Jimenez in New York, in for Jim Sciutto. Thanks so much for joining me today on CNN NEWSROOM.

We've got a lot to get to so let's get to it.

South Korean President Yoon Suk Yeol says he will lift his emergency martial law order after hours of chaos. It was the first time since 1980 and the first time as a democracy South Korea was under martial law, throwing the country into political uncertainty.

Now, hours ago lawmakers unanimously voted to request President Yoon lift the decree, ruling it invalid. Under South Korean law, the president is obliged to comply with the national assembly's request, and it does appear he will do so. President Yoon, though, plunged South Korea into political uncertainty late Tuesday night when he addressed the nation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YOON SUK YEOL, SOUTH KOREAN PRESIDENT: I declare emergency martial law to defend the Republic of Korea from the danger of North Korean communist forces, to eradicate the shameless, pro-North Korean forces that are plundering the freedom and happiness of our people at once, and to protect the free constitutional order.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: And that was an unexpected address across South Korea and lawmakers afterward clashed with South Korean troops outside the national assembly as they scrambled to reverse the president's decree.

CNN's Paula Hancocks, who was previously based in Seoul, joins me now.

So, Paula, this has been a fast moving story but what happens now?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Omar has certainly been fast moving. It's just six hours ago that we heard that this martial law decree was being declared by President Yoon. He has now lifted that martial law. And what happens next is very interesting. We don't know for certain whether or not we will hear from the president, whether he will speak to the people once again as he did a little earlier today, talking about trying to counter communist forces, anti-state forces and then effectively talking about the opposition party in South Korea.

Now, on the face of it and I say on the face of it, because there may be more to this than we know at this point having not heard from the president for a second time, but on the face of it, it appears as though this was a political calculation. It was a military solution for a political problem, because we know that there had been a stalemate in the country. The president was frustrated because he believed he couldn't get much done as the opposition was blocking him. We know there have been a number of scandals surrounding the president at this point and his popularity, popularity is really rock bottom. It's about 20 percent, his approval rating at this point.

So politically, he was in a very difficult position. Now, of course, what happens next is we are hearing from those around the national assembly, those protesters who rushed down there to make sure that this martial law would not continue to be a martial law. They are saying things like, he should be locked up he should be impeached so there is going to be a backlash against this.

President Yoon Suk Yeol cannot go to back to where he was six hours ago, before he declared this, because it is such a significant move. So there will be pressure on him from the Democratic Party, the opposition. But also bear in mind that many of his own party did vote to block this martial law decree. In fact, it was a unanimous vote, 190 lawmakers, all voted to block it. The leader of his own party the PPP, voted against it and said that it should not be going ahead, and he was going to block it.

So on the -- on the face of it, again, a phrase I will use again because there may be more to this than we know at this point. He seems very isolated and it is a very embattled president of South Korea that we are looking at, at this point. But of course, there is also a huge sense of relief in South Korea that he has lifted this martial law decree, as was expected by South Korean law, once the parliament had blocked it. But if he hadn't lifted it, then that would be a very different and a very dangerous situation that the country would be in.

[15:05:04]

Martial law of course, was only back in the in 1979, the last time that it was declared. It may sound like a long time ago, but this is still a young democracy in South Korea. It only started in the 1980s, and many in South Korea believe that the dark days of martial law of dictatorship were over. But this brought back some, some quite nasty memories for many of the older generation in South Korea tonight -- Omar.

JIMENEZ: There's likely so much more we will learn in the aftermath of this Paula Hancocks really appreciate the reporting.

I mean, look, President Yoon did not notify the Biden administration of his plans to declare martial law. President Biden, who is currently in Angola on a separate trip, is being briefed on the situation and the U.S. is monitoring all developments out of South Korea.

I want to bring in CNN's senior White House correspondent M.J. Lee, who's with me now.

And as we've said, you know, a lot has happened over the past few hours. Pretty fast moving story here. Yoon now saying he will drop the martial law order. I mean, what are you hearing from your sources here obviously, South Korea is such a key ally for the United States.

M.J. LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Frankly, Omar, the Biden administration was completely surprised, taken aback and shocked by the developments overnight in South Korea. This was completely unexpected for folks here. Not to mention, of course, people in Seoul as well. Initially, the National Security Council at the White House had said they were seriously concerned by the scenes that were unfolding and they did make a point of saying that the White House never got a heads up from Yoon and his government about this announcement I think to make the point and to emphasize that there was no coordination and certainly the U.S. was not expecting this kind of move from the South Korean president.

We are waiting to get just a more fulsome response from either the president himself or a White House official on even just the decision by Yoon Suk Yeol to declare martial law, even though now he has said he would drop it and some of the reasons that he initially cited for doing so, he was talking about the need to, you know, protect the country from communist forces in North Korea, eradicate anti-state forces. We did just watch a briefing at the Pentagon, where the Pentagon spokesperson did confirm that as you know, while the U.S. and ROK government officials have been in touch, there has been no change in U.S. force posture in South Korea. Of course, as you know, there are nearly I think, some 30,000 U.S. troops stationed in South Korea.

Now that Yoon has said that he is going to lift martial law, we are waiting on any kind of reaction to that latest development. I suspect that the U.S. will basically say that that is a welcome development, given that they were watching the initial scenes unfolding with a lot of concern. You know, Paula was just talking about the backlash that is clearly expected inside South Korea against Yoon. I think a big question right now, Omar, is what kind of backlash is there going to be coming from the Biden administration when again, we do get just more of an engaged response from the White House.

You know, we haven't gotten sort of a direct response from the president on all of this. The one thing that he told reporters earlier -- earlier today was confirming that he had been briefed.

JIMENEZ: And look, the Biden administration is in a precarious position as we transition sort of into the next administration.

But right now, President Biden or previously, I should say, President Biden has called South Koreas president a great friend. I know they've met personally a number of times. I mean, what can you tell us about their personal relationship and maybe how the posturing might change with an incoming administration? LEE: Yeah. You know, I think an important piece of context here as you

look more broadly at President Joe Biden's time in office and some of his foreign policy goals and, work that he has done over the last almost four years, he has put a lot of emphasis into bolstering U.S.- ROK ties, and that alliance all in the bigger context, of course, of trying to counter Chinas growing influence and strength in the Indo- Pacific. And that has included trying to help facilitate an improvement in relations between South Korea and Japan, all again with the understanding that if there are better relations between the U.S. and South Korea and Japan, that's better for countering and dampening China's influence and working on that essentially, for President Biden has meant.

I mean, you're seeing there that is definitely when President Yoon was here in Washington last year for the state dinner, and he famously grabbed the mic and started singing "American Pie". It was this big moment that really was received well in the room.

[15:10:11]

In those moments, we really saw how much the Biden-Yoon relationship was, you know, an effort, an effort was made by both men to keep those relations friendly and warm. The president also visited Korea back in 2022, when he made his first trip to Asia as president.

So, all of that context is really important. We have no idea with the one and a half months really, that are left with the Biden administration, it is the outgoing administration how that might impact U.S. Korean relations if in any significant way. And then, of course, the bigger question is, what does this all mean for the incoming Donald Trump administration and White House?

JIMENEZ: We know they have at least had an eye on it as President Yoon has apparently been practicing his golf game in preparation for golf politics in this incoming administration.

M.J. Lee, really appreciate the reporting and context. Thanks for being here.

I want to also bring in Troy Stangarone. He is the director of the Hyundai Motor Korea Foundation Center for Korean history and public policy.

You know, thanks for being here. You know, President Yoon obviously now saying he will lift the order, but really, there's no going back to politics before this order. I wonder what you sort of see happening next in regards to South Korean politics and in particular, President Yoon's future?

TROY STANGARONE, DEPUTY DIRECXTOR, INDO-PACIFIC PROGRAM AT THE WILSON CENTER: Well, the first question will be, what steps the national assembly takes next? We've already heard some discussion, as was mentioned in the opening about potential impeachment. There will be questions about whether he lawfully took and implemented this emergency act. If you look at the details, it would seem as though he tried to present this as an act to where the national assembly was the one causing the impairment of the government, and it doesn't seem as though that is what the act is written for.

And so in that context, the question will be whether Yoon took these steps to resolve a domestic political problem rather than to take and resolve an actual emergency. And so, in that context, if he is viewed to be seen as exceeding his authority, I would expect that eventually there will be a push towards impeachment.

JIMENEZ: And look, I mean, I don't want to downplay this at all because this is the first declaration of martial law in South Koreas democratic era, stretching back to the '80s here.

Can you help just contextualize how significant this is, even if even if the president has already said he will lift martial law, just sort of how significant this moment was?

STANGARONE: I think psychologically, it was extremely important. It broke the sense that South Koreans were living in a democracy, a very vibrant one, very controversial one, very competitive, one. President Yoon won by just a tenth of a percent in the last election over Jae Myung. But compared to a lot of other democracies, South Korea is very turbulent, very energetic, but ultimately, it's a democracy at the end of the day.

And this idea that they would be turning the page and going back to something seen under the dictatorships of the '60s and '70s and early '80s, I think was something that is going to be a real shock to the system in South Korea, because had he not lifted the order, that's where we might be heading.

JIMENEZ: And, of course, just seeing the images of military going into the parliamentary buildings, even if they eventually came out just to see those images on the streets of a vibrant democracy in sort of in and out of government buildings of, again so-called vibrant democracy, as you mentioned, is really sends a message and, you know, President Yoon said that the move is necessary to protect the country from, quote, communist forces in North Korea.

But it's really come as he's fought with the more liberal opposition Democratic party over impeaching government officials as his popularity has dropped in recent years. I mean, from where I sit, this feels like a potential military answer to a question of politics. I wonder how you see it.

STANGARONE: Yeah. I mean, if we look at this process, there has in the past been a party, a political party that was accused of having ties to North Korea, they were brought before the judicial process. They went to court. They were ruled to have illicit ties. They were banned from engaging in politics in the -- in South Korea and for running for office.

And so if this was something to where you felt there was really ties within some politicians within South Korea, there could have been a judicial process to take and resolve this issue. We didn't see that take place. We've seen over the years, he's not had his party be in control of the national assembly at any point during his presidency. That has inhibited his ability to take and move a lot of legislation I think there's been a lot of frustration.

[15:15:01]

We saw in his announcement that he was very critical of efforts to attempt to impeach prosecutors and other officials within the police, judicial system and that that was one of his complaints. But ultimately, unless Yoon comes out and says something much more specific and lays out a lot more details, this feels like a policy dispute rather than an actual national emergency.

JIMENEZ: And even if you know there is very intra country politics that are being implicated here, its also on a geopolitical scale -- I mean, the U.S. deputy secretary of state says the U.S. has been watching the developments in South Korea with grave concern. And, you know, for those that don't know, the U.S. has its largest military installation outside of the U.S. in South Korea and alongside Japan and the Philippines. It helps make up really an important trio of allies as a counter to potential North Korean or Chinese aggression.

And so in that context, do you anticipate seeing any sort of disruption? I just wonder where any points of concern might be when you see events like this unfold?

STANGARONE: So I think the first concern is uncertainty. What is the political situation look like going forward? If President Yoon survives, what type -- what type of position is he in? Is he in a weakened position? Which is likely the case if he does survive.

If he doesn't survive and is removed from office either by resigning or by taking and being impeached, what is the next political leadership look like? How does that take and impact policy towards the United States in the region? And I think this is a very delicate time.

When President Trump first came to office, South Korea had gone through the impeachment of Park Geun-hye, you had a weakened political leadership that made it difficult to try and deal with an incoming Trump administration. And it seems as though we're going through that pattern again.

And even if Yoon isn't impeached, he's still going to be taking and approaching the Trump administration from a weakened position. And I think that will make it more difficult to take and manage alliance relations.

JIMENEZ: And we know that President Yoon, along with President-elect Trump, have taken a much harder stance on folks like China and North Korea than even some presidents in the past.

Troy Stangarone, really appreciate you being here. Thanks for the perspective.

STANGARONE: Thank you.

JIMENEZ: All right.

STANGARONE: Thank you. JIMENEZ: Of course.

And we're going to have much more on this breaking story in South Korea after the break. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:20:27]

JIMENEZ: Welcome back.

We continue to follow the breaking news out of North Korea, where President Yoon says he will lift his emergency law order as soon as he can convene his cabinet members, as the overnight hours in South Korea, in Seoul. In a statement, the president also requested the national assembly to immediately stop its reckless actions that paralyzed the functions of the state through repeated impeachment legislative manipulation, and budget manipulation. Now, I was quoting from his statement there.

He declared martial law Tuesday night sparking hours of political chaos and really uncertainty in the country.

I want to bring in CNN's Will Ripley who is in neighboring Taipei right now.

And, Will, obviously, this has regional implications as well. What are you hearing on your end? How does this impact the region?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, even though the martial law only lasted for 150 minutes before that parliament vote, that unanimous vote to overturn it, and a unanimous vote these days in South Korea, Omar, is almost unheard of because they've just been so politically divided. You have the opposition party that controls parliament, the opposition party of the previous president, Moon Jae-in that was very much about pro-engagement with North Korea.

But then you have President Yoon's administration, which takes a very hard line stance and wants to bolster its military. And every time that North Korea tests a missile, you know, South Korea responds with a -- with a military act of its own. So the tensions on the peninsula have been rising.

President Yoon's policies have been deeply, deeply unpopular. His approval ratings tanking and he has essentially blamed the inaction, the gridlock on North Korea and North Korean operatives infiltrating his opposition. That was essentially his argument for declaring martial law in the first place, which his opponents kind of quickly dismissed as not being based, really, in reality. It wasn't about an external threat as much as internal politics.

But no doubt over North Korea for -- for months, ever since President Yoon took office, they've been trying to inject as much division as they can into South Korea, even putting out statements praising his predecessor while criticizing him. All of this, you know, with the hope of injecting instability, political instability. But the bigger issue here is the vulnerability of a democracy. South

Korea's democratic institutions have survived this, but this raises a lot of questions about the stability of what had been considered for the better part of 40 years, a very stable democracy in South Korea with the peaceful transfer of power, even if ex-presidents ended up having to go on trial and even go to jail for corruption charges. You know, the power was always transferred peacefully. This martial law has brought people over 40 back to a day when things were very different in South Korea, people under 40 that grew up taking their democracy for granted.

Now all of a sudden had a real wake up call, but for people in authoritarian countries, leaders of authoritarian countries like Xi Jinping of China, Vladimir Putin of Russia, yes, Kim Jong Un of North Korea, this is just going to give them ammunition in their own state media propaganda to point at the vulnerability and the chaos and the dysfunction of democracy, which is the argument that these strongmen leaders have been making as they continue to kind of work together to form this anti-West coalition.

And, of course, South Korea in this region is a crucial U.S. ally you have almost 30,000 American troops stationed in South Korea, not to mention 50 plus thousand stationed in Japan. And the fact that the U.S., like everyone else was broadsided by this, it completely came out of left field nobody -- almost nobody, except for perhaps the closest members of Yoon's inner circle were expecting this to happen until it did.

And now here we are, hours later, the chaos subsiding, but the serious questions really do remain, Omar.

JIMENEZ: Will Ripley, really appreciate the reporting.

And just for our viewers, as we continue to follow this fast moving story, Yoon's cabinet has now approved the decision to lift martial law that was on top of the president saying he would lift it as well.

Let's dig deeper with Katharine Moon. She's an expert on U.S.-South Korea relations.

Really appreciate you being here.

Now look, various U.S. officials have said they're -- they have been watching this situation with concern.

[15:25:02]

The U.S. deputy secretary of state saying the U.S. watching with grave concern. I mean, you've studied and written about the U.S.-Korea relationship for decades.

Are you watching this with that same level of concern?

KATHARINE MOON, PROFESSOR EMERITA OF POLITICAL SCIENCE, WELLESLEY COLLEGE: Yes, this is very serious and this seemed so outlandish when we all heard about it in the news, almost like a joke. It's just unthinkable given how we perceive South Korea today. South Korea is more known for its K-pop and cultural exports as well as its cars and phones than this kind of seemingly crazy act in a democracy.

But we have to keep in mind that South Korea's democracy is still young as Will, your correspondent in Asia, already mentioned. It is only about 40 years old, only starting in the late 1980s, did Korea slough off or break out of the chains of authoritarian dictatorship.

Korea had three dictators from 1961 to 1987, 1988. And it was a very, very difficult time with massive human rights abuses and all sorts of suppression of civic voices, and this is not something that South Koreans or the rest of the democratic world want to see.

I think the fact that the South Korean National Assembly, the big majority, came together in a unanimous vote in the middle of the night speaks to the strength of South Korea's democracy. It's important to remember that the head of President Yoon's own conservative party, the Peoples Power Party, the head of that party, which is not necessarily President Yoon, the leader of the party, condemned right away this declaration of martial law and worked with the opposition, Democratic Party leader, to gather the votes, gather the national assembly members to put down this kind of a disruption of democratic process.

JIMENEZ: And, you know, on top of the parliament voting unanimously and then shortly after, as he is obligated to do, the president calling for the release of martial law, now his cabinet has voted to lift martial law as well.

I know you said you were encouraged at least maybe slightly, in the way that the assembly voted unanimously and so quickly. Where do we go from here? Because obviously internally politics were not great in regards to the current president leading up to this. And now it seems you enter into a new era politically.

Where do you see this going next?

MOON: Yeah, it's a good question. Where do I see this going? I think it's going to impeachment, and he probably will be forced to resign, but he has created a pretty bad situation for himself.

Ironically, he was the law and order guy in the last administration, the last presidential administration. He had been a top national prosecutor for a significant part of his career. And the fact that he has created this mess is just very, very strange.

He, I think, did this in order to deflect the media and political scrutiny over his wife's scandalous, or rather crises, political crises created by his wife's political scandals regarding corruption, stock price manipulation and bribery and all sorts of other schemes. He has been extremely angry with the opposition party, the Democratic Party, for trying to get government offices to investigate his wife.

And Yoon, I think, acted out of weakness obviously, rather than strength. Yoon also has a below 20 percent, popularity rating. Even a month ago, let alone now, but now within a little while after he declared martial law, Korea's -- the value of Korea's currency plummeted to a two-year low, he is creating a lot of nervousness for Washington, D.C., Tokyo and as far as Washington and Tokyo are concerned, we cannot afford to have more instability in another, yet another part of the world.

South Korea is very important for, an ally to support the -- the fight in Ukraine against Russia and, of course, people get concerned about South Koreas instability in a situation like this, that such instability might encourage, mischievous behavior by the North.

[15:30:02]

I'm very glad that this martial law declaration is very short-lived. And I hope that the country will regain stability soon.

JIMENEZ: Well, let's expand on that a little bit because one -- I mean, how does this even -- even if it was I guess maybe quelled is the word to use for right now, relatively quickly? I mean, how does this impact South Koreas standing on the world stage and in allyship with the United States? And do you think that presents potentially a different picture for a President-elect Trump coming in that may be President Biden has had to deal with in regards to South Korea, these past few years?

MOON: For sure. South Korea is going to be in a continuous situation of some unrest because of this instability. The President Yoon's cabinet was already in trouble prior to last night and today. Even at the end of November, he publicly was saying that he might be reshuffling the cabinet and other top positions.

So I find it strange that he was trying to lean on his cabinet to come together and trying to follow some semblance of protocol. After having declared martial law in order to end it, because the national assembly mandated it. It seems odd that he's trying to restore some procedural law and order when he's already been so weakened, and the cabinet members themselves, their positions are, you know in a big question mark situation.

As far as the relationship with the U.S. goes and what it means for an incoming presidential administration in January, again, a question mark. I think it's possible that if we have a Trump administration dealing with this situation perhaps -- I don't know, maybe there would have been a little bit more leeway -- I don't know what the Biden administration did or say, but I'm sure I can guess that they were or demonstrating or expressing deep, deep concern and a return to democratic rule and a lifting of the martial law declaration as soon as possible.

I cannot imagine South Korea and I can't imagine the South Korean public, given its history of dynamic civic activism to support and sustain democracy. I cannot imagine that public being silent or being silenced, even through martial law.

So the way that it ended very quickly doesn't really surprise me. What surprised me was that it had started at all.

JIMENEZ: Yeah. And all indications that we've gotten to this point reporting wise, is that the Biden administration was caught by surprise, at least for the initial declaration of martial law, as I think many South Koreans were as well, with this announcement happening essentially in the middle of the night there as well.

MOON: Yeah.

JIMENEZ: Katharine Moon, I have to leave it there out of time. But really appreciate you being here.

MOON: Thank you.

JIMENEZ: Of course.

All right, everyone, we'll be right back with more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:36:38]

JIMENEZ: President-elect Trump will join French President Emmanuel Macron as well as First Lady Jill Biden, at the long awaited public opening of the Notre Dame Cathedral on Saturday, five years after a fire nearly destroyed Paris's iconic landmark.

Now, it will be Trump's first foreign trip since the election but not his first meeting with a global leader and U.S. ally. He dined with Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau last week at Mar-a-Lago and has already been hitting the phones even negotiating with foreign leaders again. He is not officially taking office just yet.

With me for more though, is CNN senior reporter Stephen Collinson.

So, Stephen, I guess the question is who invited who here? How did this meeting come to be? I'm talking about Macron and President-elect Trump.

STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Well, the official invitation came from President Macron. But what has been happening in the last six months or so since Trump became the Republican nominee, is that all the worlds major powers especially U.S. allies, have been working out how they can get the president-elect's ear.

They've been talking to people in Trump's inner circle for weeks. Clearly, Trump wanted to make this trip. After all, he is a builder and he's watched the reconstruction of Notre Dame with great interest.

This is an occasion with many VIPs. The whole world will be watching, and it will be one way for the president-elect to jump back on the international stage, if you like. So, Macron knows the kind of events that Trump likes spectacular events, those that flatter him. And I guess he made the best he can of this and he has a very sought after invitation. And it makes sense as he tries to get Trump's ear before the new administration that he tended it to the president-elect.

JIMENEZ: And look, I mean, I think it's fair to say that Macron and Trump have not always had the smoothest relationship over the years. I mean, how -- how should we interpret this -- this gesture or

invitation from Macron? Is this is this a sign he wants to turn a new leaf?

COLLINSON: I think it's an understanding that Trump is going to be hugely influential. He's going to be a very powerful U.S. president and that the decisions he will take will have great influence on life around the world, especially in Europe.

In some ways, this is a case of appeasing Trump. People in Europe and the European Union are very worried about the possibility of trade tariffs after he raised the question of tariffs for partners like Mexico and Canada. There is the question of whether he will walk away from Ukraine. That's another issue that worries the Europeans, as does his fealty to NATO's core principles of mutual self-defense.

There are a lot of reasons why Europeans want to temper the more radical aspects of Trump's foreign policy. I think the question is, though, and we saw in the first term, Trump tends to do what he likes and isn't necessarily influenced in the long term through these kind of gestures. It all started, as you mentioned very well, with Macron in the first term, but by the time they got to about 2018, they were swapping insults and Trump was upbraiding Macron on Twitter. So, you know, these things can go south pretty quickly.

[15:40:02]

JIMENEZ: Yeah, I think that is fair to say. We will see once this new administration starts or even beforehand.

Stephen Collinson, appreciate it.

COLLINSON: Thanks.

JIMENEZ: All right. Coming up, President Biden says the United States is all in on Africa. We're going to dive into his message during his first visit to the continent while in office.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JIMENEZ: The U.N. says at least 44 civilians have been killed in fighting between rebel and government forces in Syria, after really a lightning advance by rebel groups erupted in the north of the country last week. Syria's reignited civil war has displaced nearly 50,000 people, and the rebel offensive has led President Bashar al-Assad to call in his friends for help.

But Iran and Russia have had other areas of focus with the weakened Hezbollah, after crippling blows by Israel and the war in Ukraine approaching its third year.

Our Fred Pleitgen has more from Moscow.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Syria quickly descending back into all out war, President Bashar al-Assad's army seemingly caught completely off guard retreating as rebel groups make sweeping advances taking much of the second largest city, Aleppo, and capturing large amounts of arms as they move forward.

These are the tanks of the regime, this fighter, says the pigs. This is one, two, three tanks, four tanks of the defense forces and there are their busses.

Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad calling on his biggest backers, Russia and Iran, to help bail him out. Meeting with Iran's foreign minister as Tehran is already mobilizing regional forces for battle on the Syrian government's side.

The rebels will be confronted. Iran's foreign minister said. And I'm confident that this phase, like the previous ones, will also be passed with pride by the government, the people of Syria and the Syrian army.

In a show of force, Assad's military releasing this video claiming to show their counter push in Syria's northwest, but acknowledging they're relying on Russian air power to help their ground forces.

[15:45:10]

The Russians now effectively fighting two major wars in Syria and Ukraine simultaneously.

Of course, we support Bashar al-Assad, the Kremlin spokesman said. We continue our contacts on the relevant levels. We are analyzing the situation.

This as fighting in Ukraine grinds on at a steep cost in both lives and in money.

President Vladimir Putin signing off on Russia's 2025 budget with almost a third of the money now going to defense and military spending, and while Moscow's troops have been making steady progress in Ukraine.

Hello, sir, we're from CNN television.

A senior aide to Vladimir Putin telling me the Kremlin hopes the incoming Trump administration will end the war on terms favorable for Russia.

Do you think the Trump administration will be able to settle the Ukraine conflict?

VLADIMIR MEDINSKY, AIDE TO RUSSIAN PRESIDENT: Naturally, we hope that the new administration will approach this issue with a desire to maintain peace on the planet, and not to incite war, pushing Ukraine to self-destruction.

Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Moscow.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JIMENEZ: All right. Fred Pleitgen, thank you so much for that reporting.

Everyone else, we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:50:35]

JIMENEZ: All right. Everyone, I got a serious question for you. Have you ever wondered if your boss secretly wishes you'd just pack up and head out the door?

Well, I'm sorry to say, sometimes they actually do. Now, don't get me wrong. Employers generally want to attract and keep talent. Who doesn't love a loyal, hard working employee like yourself? So why would they want you to leave though when you're doing a great job?

That's a big question, but that's why we've got CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich, who is here to shed some light on why this might happen.

She does a great job. We don't want her to go anywhere.

Vanessa, what is going on here?

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS & POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Right back at you, Omar.

But you know some companies do want their employees to leave. And this is largely because companies maybe have over-hired and they need to get rid of some people, but they don't want to fire them, and they don't want to have to lay them off, because if they do, then they have to pay severance and they have to pay benefits. And that's money getting employees out the door.

But a couple of ways that we've learned that companies are actually trying to get people to quit on their own are they're saying, hey, guys return back to the office. Five days a work -- five days a week in the office. No more remote work.

That may send some people out on the quitting lines, reducing workloads. I mean, for some people, yeah, they don't want to do a lot of work but for others who are overachievers, probably like us we want to be doing some work in the office. We want to be working.

And then excluding employees from key projects, so not putting people on the big projects of the day or the year. And then if your employer is giving you a poor performance review or you're not getting a raise, that may have you thinking twice about whether or not you still want to work for this company and that may have you looking elsewhere and those things ultimately have gotten some people to quit to the employer's big smile, Omar.

JIMENEZ: I mean, some of those things you just put up there, can we put up that graphic again or so passive aggressive from a boss just oh, were just going to exclude this employee from key projects. We're just going to reduce the workload to the point like, yes, I agree, it is nice to have a reduced workload sometimes, but to the point where you feel like you're not even doing anything or contributing anything at that point, just feels like talk to your employee.

But that's just me. That's how I'd manage, whatever, that's a separate conversation. I guess the big serious thing in this is -- I mean, is it legal to create conditions that make your employees want to leave?

YURKEVICH: It is perfectly legal. Essentially, a lot of people who are out in the workforce are at will employees. So they're not under contracts. They don't have any other protections.

And employers can make your life really difficult if they want you to go and it is not illegal. However, what is illegal is if you feel like you're being pushed out the door for reasons of discrimination. So if your employer is discriminating against your age, your race, your natural national origin -- these are things that if you do feel like your employer is doing, you do have a leg to stand on, a legal leg to stand on.

So it's important to notice if you feel like those things are happening. But ultimately, Omar, is this good for the business at all? Is this good for companies at all?

The answer really is no because this could essentially backfire. If word gets out that you're trying to get people to quit, what happens when you actually want to hire people? At the end of the day, I spoke to an HR recruiter yesterday because I wanted to understand more, and Laura Mazzullo, who runs East Side Staffing, told me, she said quote, getting someone to quit is not a good employer brand strategy, exclamation point. Word gets out fast and people will not want to work there going forward. It will have a long tail of bad consequences.

So yes companies may be doing this for their bottom line, but at the end of the day, people talk Omar and someone is eventually going to find out that some of these companies may not be doing good business. And then they run into this scenario where they wish that those people who quit actually maybe stayed at the end of the day.

JIMENEZ: Look, 2020 hindsight is always the clearest. I want to actually go back to one thing. You talked about. It was in that graphic before, but also the fact that many companies are starting to get employees to come back five days a week when I think many thought that the five day workweek was a thing of the past, not for you and I.

You know, we're always in the office or out traveling somewhere, but five days a week, coming back to the office. I mean, how prevalent is that among companies?

[15:55:02]

I mean, is it safe to say that we are trending back towards five days a week in the office? What are you seeing?

YURKEVICH: Yeah, well, some companies certainly are. They feel like workers are more effective in the office. They also feel like they have a lot of real estate. They have a lot of office space. They want to be able to justify having all of that by having employees back in the office. But there have been a lot of studies, particularly in Europe, that

showed that actually four days a week workweeks in general are better for morale, better for employees. They feel better about the company, but also that remote work actually really helps people feel good about working for the company.

So there's a balance. There's a balance. Some companies may find that they can retain really good employees through hybrid -- hybrid work, but some on the other hand, say, you know what? At the end of the day, we need to justify having this large workforce and these large office spaces. We need them back in their seats in the office -- Omar.

JIMENEZ: Yeah. Vanessa Yurkevich, thank you for being the good employee. You are great reporter. Thanks for being here and break that down.

YURKEVICH: Thanks, Omar. You, too.

JIMENEZ: All right, before we go, we just want to go back to our top story, where after seven hours of political chaos, that threw the country into uncertainty, South Korea -- South Korean President Yoon Suk Yeol has now lifted his martial law order. The leader of his own party is now demanding answers, though.

On Tuesday night, President Yoon had accused the main South Korean opposition party of sympathizing with the North and said his declaration was necessary to protect the country from what he called, quote, danger of North Korean communist forces. Though in many cases he has had a hard time getting any form of whether candidates or others through the opposition politically in that country.

Otherwise, thanks for joining me today. We'll have more on that coverage coming up. I'm Omar Jimenez.

"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" up next.