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Soon, DOJ Press Conference on Scathing Report on Memphis Police; Police Search Hostel Where Suspected Killer May Have Been Staying. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired December 05, 2024 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. You are live in the CNN Newsroom. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

We are following two breaking news stories this morning. At any moment, federal officials will hold a news conference on a new scathing report on the Memphis Police Department. The Justice Department investigation, which lasted 17 months, found the city's police officers unlawfully discriminate against black people. We will bring that press conference to you live when it starts.

Plus, the manhunt intensifying right now for the masked gunman who police say killed the UnitedHealthcare CEO, new reporting about words written on a live round and a shell casing, and what leads they provide.

But let's begin with the Justice Department's report about the Memphis P.D. That's going to be coming out at any moment.

Joining me now, CNN's Nick Valencia and Evan Perez here in Washington.

Nick, to you first. You've got the report. What does it find?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This report is a year-and-a-half nearly in the making, a culmination of hard work by the Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice looking into whether or not there was a patterns and practices of discriminatory policing in Memphis. Of course, this was launched after the brutal beating death of Tyre Nichols, that video that many of us saw, and it's still difficult to watch all this time later.

What this report found, though, is that there was unconstitutional acts that were actually approved by supervisors after the fact, and that police officers in Memphis repeatedly used excessive force, conducted unlawful stops, searches and arrests, and unlawfully discriminated against black people in enforcement activities. In fact, it found that the black residents that they came in contact with were treated more harshly than their white peers for similar acts.

These findings also show that there was discrimination in their response to people with behavioral and health disabilities. So, it was not just people of color, but really anyone who was vulnerable, it seems.

Now, you remember Tyre Nichols' mother, Rowvaughn Wells. She was very outspoken after the death of her son, repeatedly calling for police reform in the city. We want you to take a listen to what she had to say in the days after her son was brutally beaten to death by police officers with the Scorpion Unit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROWVAUGHN WELLS, TYRE NICHOLS' MOTHER: People try to say black people, we only try to go after white officers. That's not true. We don't care what color the officer is. We want bad officers taken off the force. We know there's a lot of great officers. I know officers. But there are bad officers too. And those are the ones that we need to get rid of.

Why is it that black and brown kids always get beat up when they are encountered with the police?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: I mentioned that this federal investigation was launched after the brutal beating death of Tyre Nichols. That video showed him repeatedly kicked, punched, and dragged by police officers with the Scorpion Unit. We want to warn you that this video is disturbing to watch.

And we see these officers aggressively pull Nichols from his car and then use heavy hands as they're taking him into custody.

Later, that same video shows these officers milling about, seemingly trying to get their story straight as the lifeless and motionless body of Tyre Nichols lay on the ground. All of this was looked at, among other things, by the probe, by the feds here.

Now, what's really interesting is also the response from the city attorney. The city attorney seems to say, in their response, that they're not worried about any consequences, and that they are unwilling, at least in the immediate, to be part of any consent decree that's wanted by the federal government. Jim?

ACOSTA: Yes. Nick, any other examples of police overreach or police brutality in this report?

VALENCIA: Yes, I mentioned the heavy hand tactics used by the police for people with behavioral health issues. There's an incident highlighted in this report of a man with mental health issues who tried to take a $2 soft drink from a gas station.

Now, that man eventually abandoned the drink, left it at the store, but nine squad cars responded, 12 police officers, and that man was eventually tased repeatedly.

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An officer shoved that man on the squad car. Another officer kneed him. And in this incident, the feds highlighted that this man was saying, no, don't kill me, as he tried to run away. So, you know, did that response warrant the nine police officers, nine squad cars and the 12 police officers, that's among the incidents that's being highlighted in this probe. Jim?

ACOSTA: All right, Nick. And we are waiting for this Department of Justice news conference to start at any moment.

In the meantime, Evan Perez is with me. And, Evan, the city of Memphis said they, they won't agree to federal oversight. Is that right?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Right. And what they're saying is that they want to first review the report and then dispute, at least challenge some parts of it. And keep in mind that this is about a crime suppression unit that the Memphis Police was using to try to address crime in different parts of the city.

And one of the things that the report says, the Justice Department report says, is that there have been some changes made since the Tyre Nichols killing, and so they recognize that some changes have been made. But typically what happens, Jim, is that there these agreements that are supervised by a court that say you have to do these reforms and then there's a judge who oversees it, there's a monitor system that is in place to make sure that the police department improves. Those things are likely to go away in the next month.

The Justice Department is going to be run by the Trump administration, which doesn't like these. And we saw this previously in the last administration, the previous Trump administration, they came in and immediately suspended all of these things and ended them.

And so one of the concerns you're hearing inside the Justice Department and inside the civil rights community is that not only -- Memphis is just the first one, that other cities that have similar deals or agreements to improve their police departments, to reform their police departments, will similarly just walk away from them. Because they don't need to worry about any consequences, Louisville, Minneapolis, all of these places, Trenton, that have made these deals. The question, do they stick to them, or does the new administration, which really doesn't like them and doesn't think that they're worth very much, does that change the way these operate? That's the big question.

ACOSTA: Well, because Trump has been out on the campaign trail, was out on the campaign trail before the election saying he wants to see police use heavy handed tactics. And so I suppose what you're saying here is that the departments at issue here, including Memphis, might say, okay, thank you, Justice Department, for your report. We're going to wait until January 20th.

PEREZ: We wait until January 20th and we know that there are no consequences. Because right now, what the cudgel here for the Justice Department is that, you know, there's federal funding for these police departments. And so if they don't do the reforms, there could be some consequence. Right now, that's the case. That changes January 20th. And we know -- look, I mean, there is this perception on the conservative side that you don't want people overlooking, you know, cops as they do their jobs. And that's true, right? You want cops to do their job and to suppress crime and to do things to keep the community safe.

The question is when you have cops like those -- with like described in this report with some of these tactics, are those people the ones that you want to be protecting or do you need to make changes and you need to force these cities to make these changes?

ACOSTA: All right. Evan Perez, Nick Valencia, thank you both.

I want to talk now with Memphis community activists and senior pastor of Abyssinian Baptist Church, Reverend Earle Fisher. Reverend Fisher, what's your response to this report?

REV. EARLE J. FISHER, SENIOR PASTOR, ABYSSINIAN CHURCH: Well, thanks for having me, Jim. There's a bunch of mixed emotions as I'm sure is the case with many people in the Memphis and Shelby County area. It's hard to feel any level of vindication because we know, although we have been saying that the things that are happening in this report have been happening for far too long and far too often, we don't have to be at this point. Had the previous mayoral administration actually listened to the cries of the people and sought to implement some of the reforms, maybe Tyre Nichols would still be alive and maybe we wouldn't be at this particular point.

So, of course, there's anger and grief and frustration and a full range of emotions because. I wish we were in a different place, but the fact of the matter is we're not.

ACOSTA: And Memphis is saying it will not agree to federal oversight of the police department. And so what does that mean?

FISHER: Well, I think Brother Perez was making a strong point in so far as what the next administration at the Oval Office in Pennsylvania Avenue will probably look like. I've had a conversation with the city administration, let them know that I think that this is antagonistic on his face and definitely not mindful of the longstanding and necessary history and relationship between the Department of Justice and the Civil Rights Division and people who have experienced far too much police brutality and excessive force.

I mean, there's so many things laid out in this report. It does echo what has been laid out in places like Minneapolis and Baltimore and Chicago.

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I mean, it's just a system and a structure. Several months ago, when this first kicked off and people were talking about Tyre Nichols, I said, if two is company and three is a crowd, then five or more is a system and a structure.

And what you see in this report is that there's a system and a structure at place. And I hope that the city administration can find a way to work more directly with the Department of Justice and the Civil Rights Division and come up with something that they can be held accountable to because I just can't trust. The city to hold itself accountable and any relationship between the city and the community that does not have proper oversight. I think ultimately it'll be irrelevant in the very near future.

ACOSTA: All right, Reverend Earl Fisher, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it.

All right, coming up she was a stowaway on a flight to Paris. You've heard about this case. Now, she's back in the U.S., but this time she's going to be in front of a judge. Find out what charges she could face.

And next, urgent manhunt in New York City, police racing to find the suspect who gunned down that CEO of UnitedHealthcare. CNN's Brynn Gingras is at the scene. Brynn, what's the latest?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim, we have breaking new details about where that gunman may have been staying prior to the shooting here in Midtown Manhattan, including what police may have found at that location. We'll have all those details coming up next.

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ACOSTA: We have breaking news. Police have now searched a hostel on the upper west side of Manhattan as they race to find the gunman they say targeted and killed UnitedHealthcare's CEO.

CNN's Brynn Gingras joins us now. Brynn, how big of a development is this potentially? What do we know?

GINGRAS: Yes, it could be a big development, Jim, certainly as police are still trying to identify who this gunman is. Now, according to sources of mine and John Miller's, we're learning that police has searched a hostel where this gunman might have been staying for a couple of days while here in New York City. And in that search, what they found is video, of course, and they realized that this gunman, they believe, for the most of the time staying at that hostel kept that mask on his face, just like we have seen in other images of him at the Starbucks, of him here at the location where the shooting happened.

There is one moment, though, according to sources that he actually has no mask on, but his hood is up. It's either an image taken from when he was checking into this hostel or checking out of this hostel. Now, it's possible, if it's a good enough image, police will be able to circulate that, as they have been with all the images that they are able to get, and try to get the public's help as well, if they haven't been able to identify who this person is at this point.

So, this is a significant development. We also know that while staying at that hostel, this person, this gunman was in a room with two other people. Now, it's unclear at this point if investigators have been able to learn anything from those people because, as I said, we're told he kept that mask on the entire time, so really interesting details there.

Something else we've also been learning from sources, Jim, that I want to pass along is about some of that evidence that they collected in the getaway, right? We talked about the cell phone and we talked about the water bottle. We're learning from sources that they were able to actually capture a fingerprint off of those items. They have been sent to forensics, but no identification has come back yet.

So, that's not a dead end. According to sources, essentially, what this could mean is if they get a name, they can then backtrack to those fingerprints that were found on those two pieces of evidence.

So, look, they are getting closer to trying to identify who this gunman is. They are continuing to conduct any searches, try to find video, as we've been talking about for now more than 24 hours, trying to piece together the movements of this person, but also just I.D. who they are in addition to, of course, a motive and finding this person.

ACOSTA: All right, Brynn. And CNN has also learned that police have found -- let's talk about this -- found the words written on a live round and shell found at the murder scene. I mean, this is very interesting, depose and delay. I have a sense as to what this means, but tell us what it might mean.

GINGRAS: Yes. So, the word, delay, was found on this live round. For people who weren't familiar, that means one of the live round that's found on the ground when hit that gun jammed, as we've heard from investigators, and the word, depose, was found on a shell casing. That would be what was left over after the bullet was fired from the gun.

Now, according to our investigators, this might possibly point to a motive. This is something else that they are trying to figure out. Why did this gunman go after the CEO of UnitedHealthcare, Brian Thompson? And if you talk to them, a popular industry health -- healthcare industry phrase is delay, deny, defend. So, they're wondering if these words were etched on this live round and these shell casings to send a message.

Now, in addition to that, of course, Jim, we've been reporting that there were some threats that were made, concerning threats that were made against the top executives of UnitedHealthcare, that, you know, had the eye of the securities team inside UnitedHealthcare. But, again, this is all trying to figure out if there is a motive here and the investigation continues.

ACOSTA: All right. Brynn Gingras in New York, thank you very much.

Let's continue this conversation. Join me now is Bobby Chacon, a former FBI special agent. Bobby, let's talk about those words found on that shell casing and on that live round, depose and delay. I mean, what do you make of that? I mean, it sounds as though it is tied to perhaps the health industries, healthcare industries' controversial practices of trying to deny care and delay care for people to save money. I mean, that's just sort of speculating here, but what do you think?

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BOBBY CHACON, RETIRED SPECIAL AGENT, FBI: Well, yes, I agree with you, Jim. I think obviously this gunman wanted to make a statement because you don't you mean he purposely put those words on those shell casings for police to find. I mean, that's clear. So, they wanted to make that statement.

ACOSTA: Bobby, I'm so sorry to do this to you. I apologize. This is not what I love to do. We're going to go to the Department of Justice press conference in Memphis. We'll get back to you, Bobby. Stand by.

KRISTEN CLARKE, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR CIVIL RIGHTS: This investigation was comprehensive and exhaustive. We interviewed dozens of police department officers and many city employees, as well as hundreds of community members and local organizations. We reviewed hundreds of incidents, watched hundreds of body worn camera videos, read thousands of documents, and conducted statistical analyses of police data regarding officer activities and enforcement.

Based on this investigation, we found that the police in Memphis use excessive force, that they stop, search and arrest people unlawfully, that their policies have a discriminatory effect on black people and that they discriminate against people with behavioral health disabilities. Furthermore, we are also concerned that MPD officers unnecessarily escalate encounters with some of the most vulnerable members of this community, its children.

Many dedicated police officers in Memphis regularly risk their lives to keep people safe and to protect their rights. The practices I described, however, violate the Constitution and federal law. They harm and demean people, and they promote distrust, undermining the fundamental safety mission of a police department.

The city and police department can and must correct these issues. First, the police department must stop using excessive force. Officers often make tough choices in stressful circumstances. But in Memphis, we have found that officers often use unwarranted serious force in response to low level violations or traffic offenses.

For example, officers tackled a man and held him down by his neck for littering in a park. Officers routinely punish people who flee or don't immediately follow direction.

Second, the police department must end unlawful stops, searches and arrest without reasonable suspicion or probable cause to believe the people they stop have contraband or are dangerous or are a flight risk. Officers often frisk, search, handcuffed or hold them.

For example, police detained a black man outside of a dollar store and struck him in the leg with a baton and pepper sprayed him in the face. Dollar stores in the area had seen a spate of robberies, but police had no reason to suspect that this man had anything to do with them.

Further, without evidence that someone's car contains drugs or weapons, officers often tow and impound the vehicles.

Third, the police department must stop policies that have a disproportionate effect on black people in this community. We uncovered racial disparities that cannot be explained.

ACOSTA: All right, I want to go to CNN's Nick Valencia for your thoughts, Nick, on what we just heard from federal officials there with the Justice Department on their probe of the Memphis Police Department.

VALENCIA: Yes. You're hearing from Kristen Clarke there saying that this is a conclusion that they came to after going through hundreds of incidents, hundreds of videos, and thousands of documents.

And, look, it comes really as no surprise to this reporter. Jim, you know this. We spent weeks in Memphis after the death of Tyre Nichols and talked to so many people, countless people as we were attending these city council meetings where they were pushing for reform on the local level.

And we heard these stories. In fact, I sat down with a black resident there who said that he had an encounter with the Scorpion Unit while he was sitting in his car outside of an apartment complex, just waiting for his cousin to come to the car.

You know, these people I spoke to highlighted what they called stop and frisk-like arrest, and that's exactly what we heard Kristen Clarke there talking about, that Memphis police officers used excessive force on people who were doing minor offenses as littering. You know, I talked earlier this hour of a man who had mental health issues and took a soft drink for $2. These are the type of incidents that are being highlighted by this report saying that the Memphis Police officers operate using excessive force for the minorest of -- the most minor of infractions, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. Nick Valencia, we'll continue to follow it.

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Thank you very much.

I want to get back to Bobby Chacon, former FBI special agent, to talk about the killing of the UnitedHealthcare CEO. And, Bobby, I'm so sorry, that, that is something I hate doing as an anchor. And sometimes it happens in a clean way. And sometimes it just doesn't happen that way at all.

But, Bobby, let's go back --

CHACON: (INAUDIBLE).

ACOSTA: I know, you're a pro. Let's go back and talk about those shell casings and what it means to the case, because as you and I were talking about a few moments ago, you know, if this murderer, assassin, whatever you want to call him, we don't know all the details of this, is somehow scrawling onto these shells and this live round these kinds of words, it does speak to some kind of motive here.

CHACON: Absolutely. He wanted to make this statement, the deny, depose, delay. I mean, these -- there was a book written that uses that phrase as an under title, you know, about the insurance industries' habits of automatically denying, delaying claims, hoping people just run out of fortitude to keep going.

And so this could be the motive. I mean, and or, you know, often what happens in these cases is it doesn't go from 0 to 100. In other words, they just don't decide to shoot the CEO one day. There's an escalation. So, there'll be an email or there'll be a letter to the company asking for an appeal and then they'll get denied and then they'll write another letter.

So, there'll be a series of letters and each one showing a little more frustration on the part of the person and ultimately sometimes those letters get so frustrating that the person starts, you know, threatening violence. So, they'll be looking at all of those cases.

Unfortunately, insurance companies in this country get probably get a lot of them because they do have this practice of delaying and denying. And so they're looking for an escalation in the language used in some of these complaints that often they get. And so, you know, it escalates to the point where the person will take action like this. It very rarely goes from 0 to 100.

ACOSTA: Yes. And, Bobby, I mean, I do want to talk about what Brynn Gingras was talking about a few moments ago, that police have searched a hostel in Upper Manhattan where the gunman may have stayed. Obviously, we don't know if this is a solid lead or what, but she was talking about the possibility that there might be a surveillance image of the gunman without a mask on.

Obviously, I mean, that is a huge development in this case. If that is actually true, that means that potentially we might see some kind of an image of this killer blasted out to the world before the end of the day.

CHACON: Absolutely. And, you know, I mean, that would be a home run because somebody will recognize him. Even from the video we saw last night of him standing, he has a particular type of stance. Everybody has a unique kind of body style and a unique gait, the way they walk. And so people that know this guy will recognize that.

So, hopefully, those images get blasted everywhere and someone will recognize, oh, that's -- so we all know the silhouettes of our loved ones. If you just see them in a black silhouette, you'll recognize them, the way they walk, the shape of their body generally. And certainly a facial image would be a home run.

The good thing about a hostel is you have shared spaces. So, you're kind of living among other people. So, he may have said something to someone, you know, you share a bathroom, you share a bedroom, come sometimes to these hostels. So, you know, there'll be people there that may have interacted with this person may have said something to him or may have just noticed odd behavior. So, that's kind of a real -- that could be a gold mine of information for investigators.

ACOSTA: All right. Bobby Chacon, thank you very much.

Coming up, bringing DOGE to Capitol Hill. Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy are going to be making their case to lawmakers. That's coming up next.

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