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CNN International: Syrian Rebels Carry Out A New Offensive From The South; Syrian Militant Leader Speaks To CNN As Rebels Advance; Family Of Journalist Austin Tice Attends White House Meeting; Police Release Images Of "Person Of Interest" In CEO Shooting; TikTok Loses Bid To Strike Down Law That May Ban It In U.S.; Trump Posts Support For Pete Hegseth, Says He's A "Winner"; South Korean Facing Impeachment; Violence Escalates In Georgia Government Crackdown. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired December 06, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:33]

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: I'm Richard Quest in New York. Jim Sciutto is off for the day, and that means you and I spend the next hour together in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Here is the news.

We begin in Syria, where the front lines of years-old civil war that's been in stalemate is now changing daily. After taking major cities in the north, Syria's rebel forces have now launched a fresh offensive in the south of the country. Now, there, they claim they've already taken over a key border crossing into Jordan and a military base in Daraa province.

Look at the map. The green areas show the advances they've made so far since the launching of the offensive. And that was only last week. It follows a day after they drove Assad's forces out of Hama, a strategic and symbolically significant city for the Assad regime.

Protesters have taken to the streets in celebration there you see the toppling of a statue of Assad's father. In 1982, he ordered the military to quash a revolt in the city. Tens of thousands of Syrians were killed in that assault.

CNN's Jomana Karadsheh is the first Western journalist inside Syria since this latest civil war reignited. She's there, and she sat down with Abu Mohammad al-Jolani, the leader of HTS. This is the main rebel group that's leading this lightning offensive.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Taking Hama after taking Aleppo. I mean, how significant is this for you?

ABU MOHAMMAD AL-JOLANI, HAYAT TAHRIR AL-SHAM LEADER (through translator): From a military perspective, what comes after Hama will not be the same as what came before. However, I prefer not to be overly optimistic during the battle. I like to remain cautious and vigilant to avoid complacency and ensure we don't suffer losses while believing we are safe.

KARADSHEH: What comes after this? What's after Hama?

AL-JOLANI: The course of the battle. As for the secrets of the battle, let's leave them to the unfolding events. You will witness them in reality, which is better than discussing them now.

KARADSHEH: In a matter of days, you have taken major cities. What's changed? How are you able to do this now?

AL-JOLANI: In recent years, there has been a unification of internal opinions and the establishment of institutional structures within the liberated areas of Syria. This institutionalization included the restructuring within military factions. They entered unified training camps and developed a sense of discipline. This discipline allowed them, with god's guidance, to engage in a battle in an organized manner. The progress and execution of plans have been swift, with clear communication and adherence to commands. They stop where they should stop and withdraw where they should withdraw. The revolution has transitioned from chaos and randomness to a state of order, both in civil and institutional matters and in military operations alike.

KARADSHEH: Some believe this is happening because the allies of the Assad regime, the Russians, Hezbollah, Iran, that they are weakened they are preoccupied with other wars. And this is why we are seeing this happen right now. And the Syrian regime itself weakened.

Is this what is happening right now? Is this why you chose to launch this offensive right now?

AL-JOLANI: As you know, we are still in the midst of the battle and discussing such details at this time is not wise.

KARADSHEH: But you faced more of a resistance in Hama than you did in Aleppo. What do you think happened? Why did the regime withdraw like it did?

AL-JOLANI: The seeds of the regime's defeat have always been within it. It has been effectively dead since that time. However, the Iranians attempted to revive the regime, buying it time and later the Russians also tried to prop it up. But the truth remains, this regime is dead.

KARADSHEH: In the last year, it seemed like Bashar al-Assad survived the war. He was welcomed back into the Arab fold and on the world stage.

[15:05:02]

AL-JOLANI: The Arab countries' evaluation of the situation was mistaken. Some Arab countries tried to separate the regime from Iran's project. This is impossible. Even if the regime wanted this, it can't implement it. It's a subservient relationship. Iran can disengage from the regime, but the regime can't.

To describe the regime as victorious is deeply unjust to the many children, people, women subjected to rape in prisons, displaced individuals scattered across the world, those drowning in the seas and those living in tents on the borders of other countries. What kind of victory are we talking about?

KARADSHEH: In the past, you have talked about strict Islamic rule. Is that still the plan?

AL-JOLANI: People who fear Islamic governance either have seen incorrect implementations of it or do not understand it properly. We are talking about something that aligns with the traditions and nature of the region. The most important thing is to build institutions.

We are not talking about rule by individuals or personal whims. It's about institutional governance. Syria deserves a governing system that is institutional, not one where a single ruler makes arbitrary decisions.

KARADSHEH: Many Syrians are happy and will be happy to see the end of the Assad regime. But they're also worried about what HTS rule would mean, including minorities.

AL-JOLANI: No one has the right to erase another group. These sects have coexisted in this region for hundreds of years, and no one has the right to eliminate them. There must be a legal framework that protects and ensures the rights of all, not a system that serves only one sect, as Assad's regime has done.

KARADSHEH: You know, listening to you speaking, you've gone through quite the transformation. Once an al Qaeda leader, your group has had affiliations with al Qaeda, with ISIS, and now you are projecting this image of a moderate leader and a moderate group. What is HTS right now?

AL-JOLANI: Hayat Tahrir al-Sham is one of the factions in the region, just like all the others. Now, we're talking about a larger project. We're talking about building Syria. Hayat Tahrir al-Sham is merely one detail of this dialogue, and it may dissolve at any time. It's not an end in itself, but a means to perform a task confronting this regime.

Once that task is complete, it will transition to a state of governance, institutions and so on. I believe that everyone in life goes through phases and experiences, and these experiences naturally increase a person's awareness. A person in their 20s will have a different personality than someone in their 30s or 40s, and certainly someone in their 50s.

KARADSHEH: So are those days behind you?

AL-JOLANI: Sometimes it's essential to adjust to reality and because someone who rigidly clings to certain ideas and principles without flexibility cannot effectively lead societies or navigate complex conflicts, like the one happening in Syria.

KARADSHEH: People listening to this are going to wonder why they should believe you. You are still a specially designated global terrorist by the United States with a $10 million bounty on your head, your group is a proscribed terrorist organization by the United States, by the U.N., by the E.U., and others.

AL-JOLANI: I say to people, don't judge by words, but by actions. I believe the reality speaks for itself. These classifications are primarily political and at the same time wrong. I define a terrorist as someone who intentionally kills civilians, harms innocents, or displaces people. If we're being honest, many of the wars waged by major powers in Arab, Muslim and even non-Muslim countries have involved the deliberate killing of thousands the destruction of homes, and the displacement of millions, even the regime itself is guilty of such actions.

KARADSHEH: But the U.S. and others would say is that you were parts of groups that did exactly that.

AL-JOLANI: Personally, I have not done these things. The situation must be understood in its historical context. There was a massive war in Iraq that deeply stirred people's emotions, prompting many to go there. The circumstances of that war led people to various places, and my path led me to one of those locations.

Given my level of awareness and my young age at the time, my actions evolved to where I am today. I didn't go to Iraq with those intentions. I went to defend the Iraqi people.

When I returned to Syria, I didn't want to bring what happened in Iraq into Syria.

[15:10:04]

That's why there were disagreements between us and ISIS.

KARADSHEH: People would be wondering why you've agreed to speak with us.

AL-JOLANI: What is happening in Syria is significant for the entire world. This event has positive repercussions globally because under the regime's rule, Syria became a source of concern and trouble for everyone. Stabilizing Syria will bring many people back. Today in the liberated areas, about one third of the population lives in camps, approximately 1.5 million people. I believe we can soon reach a point where there are no camps, with the rehabilitation of the liberated areas, people will return to their homes. Many refugees in Turkey will likely return as will a significant number of refugees in Lebanon and Jordan. Even refugees in Europe may return to rebuild their country.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: With me is Ben Wedeman, who has covered Syria extensively over the years.

A fascinating interview there, he is the voice of reasonableness both in content and in delivery. Well-argued, rational, nothing to be -- nothing to see here. Keep walking. What do you make of it?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly as Jomana asked him in that interview, he talked about a great transformation and certainly it appears that that is the case. One would think that perhaps the Syrian revolutionaries who went through quite a change from some of them being idealists at the beginning of the revolution, when things turned bad, many of them joined ISIS, joined Jabhat al-Nusra, al Qaeda's affiliate in Syria.

But perhaps they have learned the lesson that ISIS taught the world. That sort of being an enemy of everybody, all the infidels and all the nations on Earth is a the fast track to self-destruction. So perhaps they've learned that maybe extremism isn't the way to achieve your goals -- Richard.

QUEST: But -- right. But let's put it in sort of blunt terms. And, you know, if we look at, say the Taliban and we look at those Islam -- those very strict Islamic regimes that have come in where for instance, repression of women, women's and girls' education, those sort of things, listening to him, I could not deduce where he stood on that. He talks about, you know, proper -- proper policies and this, that, and the other. What do you think he means on those highly emotive subjects?

WEDEMAN: Really, we don't know. I mean, certainly, he is saying the right things. The question is, what are they going to do?

And keep in mind that Syria is a very diverse country. There are Christian minorities. There are Muslim minorities who have suffered greatly under people who have fought alongside Abu Mohammad al-Jolani, and people who suffered under ISIS. And the question is, are they going to behave this time?

What we've seen so far in a city like Aleppo, I lived in Aleppo, you have Christians, you have Druze, you have Kurds, you have Alawites, you have various minorities who are highly sensitive to the fears, sort of the danger of fundamentalist Sunni Muslim rule. So far, so far, they have not been abused or attacked.

We have to wait and see, but certainly history is -- does not provide many good examples of treatment of minorities under this kind of rule.

QUEST: Right, which really takes us to the core question, and it might be moot because if they take over, they take over, but at some point they're going to need assistance and help. And at some point, you know, the western, everybody's going to have to decide where we stand.

So are they worthy of the benefit of the doubt, or are we better off with the devil we know?

WEDEMAN: But the devil we know, Bashar al-Assad, by most calculations, 90 percent of the civilians killed in the Syrian civil war were killed by the regime.

The regime has a long history of corruption, of oppression of incredible human rights abuses, no freedom of speech. As I said, I lived in Syria.

[15:15:01] I knew what it was like living under Hafez al-Assad, his father, who was president from 1971 to 2000. This is a brutal, wildly unpopular regime.

Now the sort of for many Syrians, they're kind of between a rock and a hard place. There's the uncertainty of what this new coalition of rebels could bring but there is the certainty of the experience of living under the Assad regime. So they're between a rock and a hard place. But in the end, we'll have to see who actually runs Syria at the end of the day -- Richard.

QUEST: Ben, fascinating -- absolutely fascinating. Thank you very much. Good to have you with you. Thank you.

Now to the story we've been following for more than a decade. The Houston native Austin Tice is believed to be the longest held U.S. journalist overseas. It's been more than 12 years since he was detained near Damascus. He was covering the war in Syria. The Department of State has repeatedly pointed to the Syrian government as being responsible for the abduction but Syria's President Assad hasn't acknowledged any involvement. Today, Austin's family met with officials at the White House to advocate for the return of their son and brother.

And Alex Marquardt is following this story for us in Washington and now this is another fascinating story relating to this because, of course, not only do we have the issue of what is happening, but how the events that we are currently seeing might affect Austin and his detention.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT : Yeah, in a very significant way. And, Richard, you just showed it right there. There is a press conference that is ongoing as we speak, from the family of Austin Tice after their meeting with administration officials earlier today. And I have been watching that for the past few moments. And I must say, it is an emotional press conference. A lot of frustration being expressed by the family of Austin Tice, both his parents, six of his siblings several in-laws, each one of them getting up to that podium, talking about their meeting earlier today with national security adviser Jake Sullivan and accusing the Biden administration of not doing enough to free Austin Tice from being held by the Syrian regime, which, as you mentioned they have not acknowledged.

Very interestingly, Richard, at the beginning of that press conference, Debra Tice, Austin's mother, stood up and said that they have new information that Tice is alive and has been treated well. Here's what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEBRA TICE, AUSTIN TICE'S MOTHER: The news that we're hearing from the Middle East is the kind of thing can unsettle a mom and I'm just so very glad that you're here. I'm so very glad that you're interested.

You know, there are all kinds of ways this could go, but the best thing that we want to share with you is that we have from a significant source that has already been vetted all over our government. Austin Tice is alive. Austin Tice is treated well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: Now, she hasn't yet said more about who that source is. As I mentioned, this press conference is ongoing. But, of course, that would be very encouraging news if that were true. She talked about the unsettling news coming out of the Middle East. That's a reference to everything that's going on in Syria.

So, of course, if there is this formidable rebel advance, Richard, it raises all kinds of questions of how that would impact Austin Tice. I will say, I have spoken with a source who says that when it comes to the Biden administration and their understanding, they do not have -- there's no change in the assessment. They have said they believe he's alive and being held by the Syrian regime. But I'm not hearing much from the U.S. government side about any new information.

QUEST: Alex, I'm grateful for you. Thank you. I'm just listening to the mother there. I can't imagine having to talk about your son in the third person as being alive and being treated well.

Alex, grateful for your -- for bringing it. It is a story we'll keep watching. We must do, must do. No question of it. Thank you.

Now, as you and I continue our chat and discussion, new information about the suspect in the murder of the UnitedHealthcare CEO, we've got some pictures. He's smiling. The circumstances under which we've seen these pictures are interesting in themselves. But where is he? And what's happening after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:22:36]

QUEST: So, new information. Police believe the person who they think killed the UnitedHealthcare CEO is no longer in New York. Now the hunt is in its third day and the police are sharing these pictures and photos from the hostel where it's believed he stayed in the run up to the shooting. According to the sources, they're telling us that the man paid in cash -- he used a New Jersey driver's license, which apparently was fake, so is meaningless.

Omar Jimenez is in New York. And now, the core amount of information we're now getting is fascinating. Where is this man?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. So we were getting new clues. We actually just heard from the chief of police and the chief of detectives. I mean, within the last few minutes who are giving us insight here.

So, for starters, one of that photo that you just had up a few moments ago of that picture with the mask down of the suspect in the hostel, so that picture that picture is what authorities are calling the money shot. And I want to quote from the chief of police who said that he's been traveling and walking around the streets of New York City, largely in a mask with his face covered. We had to go through lots of video evidence to get this one money shot with the mask down.

And this was in the days prior to the actual shooting at the hostel where authorities believe he had been staying for days leading up to the shooting. And as we know from law enforcement, the only reason that mask is down is because he was apparently flirting with the girl at the front desk clerk who asked him to pull it down. And that's what led to that money shot.

We also heard from the chief of police very critically, that they have reason to believe this person is no longer in New York City. It likely was a suspicion from many people this far removed from the time of the actual shooting Wednesday morning. But they laid out their reasoning why.

Look, it's New York City. There are cameras everywhere. And so people were wondering, well why can't you just track where this person went?

We learned that's exactly what they did. They tracked this person from the scene of the shooting up north to Central Park. They see him exiting the park. This video on your screen is essentially 30 blocks north of where the shooting actually happened. They track him there to that corner, which is just off screen.

And then the chief of detectives told us that this person drops the bike, gets in a taxi cab, and then takes the taxi almost a hundred blocks north to an interstate bus terminal and that is the last time they see him on video.

[15:25:12]

And there's reason to believe that he left the state is, or at least the city is, because they see him on camera going into the bus terminal and they never see him on foot leaving the bus terminal. Of course, busses going in and out.

QUEST: The sheer amount of information that -- I mean, if we just run that pictures again of him on a bicycle and you think of the number of cameras and the way in such a short period of time obviously using a combination of facial recognition, AI, to just sift through, I mean you know, the voluminous amount of information -- it's quite extraordinary.

It really is. And, you know, what's interesting, too, is the current chief of police she was recently installed. She has a tech background and many questioned, oh, well, this isn't a police officer. They brought her in because she has this tech background, and knowing that tech plays such a role in policing these days, and that likely is part of how they track this person.

But you see on the screen here, this was the difficulty that law enforcement was having. Its one thing to track someone across a major city when their face is showing, but to have someone where their face is completely blocked, like this, again leading to what they describe as the money shot was a big break. And you know, they're hot on the trail. But the question is where did this person go if they're no longer in New York City?

QUEST: So many fascinating things, right? Thank you, sir.

JIMENEZ: Of course.

Now, tik, tok, tik, tok, tik, tok -- well, the TikTok that I'm talking about will need more than a bit of ticking to get the stay going. The social media giant is going to have to either separate from its Chinese parent company or be banned before January the 19th because of a law that President Biden signed earlier this year.

Today, a U.S. Court of Appeals upheld the law as being constitutional and thereby TikTok can and will be closed down if it's not sold.

CNN's Clare Duffy has been following this whole saga, joins me now.

And there are appeal avenues. I mean, although this appeal court was quite clear that the law is not unconstitutional. So TikTok is either got to be sold or it will be shut down. And the complicating factor is January the 19th, of course, the day before the inauguration.

CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: Yeah. Richard, there's a lot to unpack here. TikTok had sued to block this law, claiming that it violated the free speech laws of the platform and its 170 million American users.

But this court upheld the law. Judges said that it does not violate the First Amendment and that, in fact, it is because of the immense reach of this platform that the government's national security concerns were valid.

I want to read to you something that one of the judges wrote in this ruling. He said: The First Amendment exists to protect free speech in the United States. Here, the government acted solely to protect that freedom from a foreign adversary nation and to limit that adversary's ability to gather data on people in the United States.

So as you see there, a pretty robust rebuttal, a rebuttal of TikTok's argument and ruling in favor of the government's argument that there was a national security concern here.

QUEST: Right. Now, I realize that you're looking at the sort of the tech side, rather than necessarily the forensic legal side, but the prospect of appeals and bearing in mind were only x number of weeks away from January, the 19th, does TikTok get a lease of life by getting stays ahead of an appeal to the Supreme Court, et cetera, et cetera? And do we know where President Trump stands on this?

DUFFY: Yeah, we're waiting to hear exactly how TikTok is going to approach the appeal process. But the company has signaled that it plans to appeal this decision to the Supreme Court. Here's what a spokesperson told us today. They said the Supreme Court has established a historical record of protecting Americans right to free speech, and we expect they will do just that on this important constitutional issue. But we don't yet know whether they are indeed going to ask the Supreme

Court to stay this law, essentially pause this law so that we don't see the ban go into effect on January 19th, while they're waiting for a ruling from the Supreme Court on this, Trump is the other interesting wrinkle in this story. Of course, this ban is set to go into effect a day before his inauguration.

And it was under Trump's first administration that he was the first to try to ban this platform. Now it appears he's made a 180, and now says that he doesn't want TikTok to be banned but it's not clear whether he'll be able to do anything about this.

One potential option experts have told me, is that he could try to get Congress to overturn this law after he takes office, they said that's unlikely because Congress just passed this law and there's a lot of anti-China sentiment in Congress still right now. They also said that Trump could try to signal that his DOJ isn't going to enforce this law. But it's not clear that the app stores those are the ones who will really have to enforce this, and remove TikTok would buy that option -- Richard.

[15:30:04]

QUEST: Thank you. Clare Duffy in New York, I'm grateful.

Pete is a winner. Apparently he has a military state of mind. That's how President-elect Trump put forward his vote of confidence for Pete Hegseth, his choice for defense secretary. Now, Hegseth himself been meeting senators all week amid the mounting allegations of financial mismanagement, alcohol abuse and sexual misconduct. He denies it all.

It's the first time we've heard from the president-elect since it looked like the nomination was imperiled. However, whether or not the endorsement will be enough is really a question that we just have to consider.

Alayna Treene covers the president elect is with me so look, what is the difference here between Hegseth and Matt Gaetz? Why did one fold and collapse so quickly and the others battling on regardless?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Yeah, well, the one key thing, Richard, is what I'm told behind the scenes in my conversations with those working on the transition team is that unlike Matt Gaetz currently, as it relates to Hegseth, there are no hard nos from senators, or at least Hegseth's team, as well as what senators are communicating with Trump's team, is that there are currently no hard nos.

Yes, they have some reservations about him. Yes they want more information, but as of now no one has come out and said we are voting against him. And that really is where the math game comes in with Gaetz. It was clear that he was not going to have --

QUEST: OK.

TREENE: -- the numbers in order to move forward, and that's why we saw him withdraw.

QUEST: You know, the thing that's getting lost and you and I have talked about this already or before, everybody is focusing on the drinking and the womanizing and the complaints and this, that and the other.

But has it got lost in all of this, that the man's probably not actually equipped or experienced enough for the job. That seems to be being brushed to one side.

TREENE: At least publicly, yes, because so much attention is on these allegations, but that is a key question. I'm told that has been coming up in his private meetings with senators. And also remember, these private meetings aren't the last thing that will happen before he goes through confirmation. He's going to have a hearing that plays out publicly. And I know from my conversations again with Donald Trumps team that they very much expect that to be a key issue, that arises during those public hearings, and one that they feel like they need to sort for now in these private conversations.

And just a few things I want to say, as much as we're seeing Donald Trump openly and publicly support him, I'm also told he has given a directive to many people on his team to really boost Hegseth as much as possible right now.

The thing is that this could change on a dime. I'm told that there's a couple of things that could change Donald Trump's overall stance on this. One is that if they get more information that comes to light on Hegseth, I'd note that, you know, just yesterday we heard Donald Trumps lawyer tell our own Kaitlan Collins that he is going to submit or he has already submitted his name for a background check, but then also, if we see more allegations come to light in and of itself.

And so that's one thing where they are still a bit wary of this. But the other part of this, Richard, is that Donald Trump and his team also believe that he cant, that the president elect cannot cave to this pressure because he already had to essentially pull one of his picks, one of his nominee picks in Matt Gaetz. And so, I'm going to read for you just one quote from one person who's been involved in these conversations, because I think its pretty enlightening to how they feel.

They said, quote, if he drops Pete because of pressure from establishment Republican senators, all it will do is have the effect of the Senate essentially controlling Trump and not the other way around. And that's honestly a key part of this, that Donald Trump is at a critical moment. He's not even -- he hasn't been sworn in yet, but he does believe that, you know he needs to assert his control over Congress and make it clear that he's the one who's trying to call the shots, not them.

QUEST: Yes, we wouldn't want to let the separation of powers get in the way of any inconvenient matters such as which party, which side of government.

Look, that's fascinating. Thank you very. It's a very good insight into how both sides are viewing this particular thing. I'm grateful to you. Thank you very much.

Now, in a moment, impeachment is looming for the president of South Korea. Perhaps not surprising after he declared martial law and then abandoned it all within the space of three hours. So, what next? In a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:37:43]

QUEST: To South Korea where the head of President Yoon Suk Yeol's own party made a stunning declaration today by calling for the president to be immediately suspended from office.

Now, the leader of the ruling party says he's received credible evidence that the president ordered the arrest of key politicians during that brief martial law on Tuesday. So an hour of dramatic reversal of opinion is adding significant pressure with an impeachment vote looming in parliament.

CNN's Mike Valerio is in Seoul and reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIKE VALERIO, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Days later, you can still see damage inside South Korea's national assembly. In fact, if we look through this hole, this is where a door was kicked through during clashes with soldiers. And you see tables, chairs, fancy sofas, pieces of office furniture that were used to barricade this door and would only be a short time later that soldiers left the building.

(voice-over): In the aftermath of martial law, a critical question at the heart of South Korea's democracy, will there be enough votes to impeach President Yoon Suk Yeol? For liberal assembly member Cho Kuk, he's confident there will be.

CHO KUK, LEADER, REBUILDING KOREA PARTY: I think more than eight conservative congressmen will join.

VALERIO: Cho was one of the people who rushed to the national assembly and voted to suspend President Yoon's declaration of martial law. We asked if Cho thinks there's a chance President Yoon declares martial law a second time.

CHO: The possibility is getting decreased -- is decreasing, but exists because President Yoon is still there. He is not removed.

VALERIO: Still on the job is Lee Myung-woo, who helped push back soldiers entering the assembly grounds.

He took this video of military helicopters landing nearby.

We were blocking the door with a big barricade, he told us. Special Forces soldiers were making their way into the building as I and other officials built a barricade from the inside, the soldiers were barred by the barricade and the people. The area was sealed off by law enforcement. Kim Yong-gun (ph) shows us how he helped lawmakers climb over a wall so they could get into the assembly and vote to end martial law.

I crouched like this. Four of us moved as one team, Kim said. We decided to help the lawmakers get inside the building. Two of us made a distraction for the police and I crouched down for the lawmakers to climb over the wall.

[15:40:06]

President Yoon's office released a statement late Thursday saying he declared martial law within a, quote, legitimate framework in order to regulate political activity and confront the forces destroying liberal democracy.

As for Cho's message to those across South Korea --

CHO: My fellow citizens, President Yoon will be removed very soon. Do not worry about that. Keep your conviction, do not hesitate to remove the tyranny, tyrant.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VALERIO (on camera): And the impeachment vote is set for Saturday evening. Opposition lawmakers say, if the vote fails, they are simply going to try again.

Mike Valerio, CNN, Seoul.

QUEST: You and I have more to go, as the moment.

Protests in Georgia on their second week over the governing party's decision to suspend talks on joining the EU.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Thousands of Georgians have taken to the streets since the government announced it was suspending talks to join the European Union. Last week, the police and special forces forcefully responded. It left dozens of people in hospital. The country's president, whose powers are mostly ceremonial, claims that police are targeting journalists and political leaders. It's a move by the latest move by the government that's driving fears that Georgia is moving away from Europe and closer to Russia.

Now, the government there pushed the Russia style foreign agent law that allows the government to clamp down on watchdogs.

Joining me is Natalie Sabanadze. She's the former head of the Georgian mission to the EU, currently a senior research fellow at Chatham House.

Grateful that you're with me.

Ma'am, look, the -- if the government is and some -- some polls suggest that up to 60 percent of Georgia does want to talks to continue.

[15:45:03]

If the government there gets that far apart from the people's will, then arguably there will be there will be some very, very nasty scenes.

NATALIE SABANADZE, RUSSIA & EURASIA PROGRAMME SENIOR RESEARCH FELLOW, CHATHAM HOUSE: Yeah, thanks for having me. It's great to talk to you and you're absolutely right.

I mean, this decision, which was announced on 28th of November, was really like pouring fuel on the fire because in fact, polls consistently show that very high number of Georgians support European integration and Euro-Atlantic integration -- meaning membership both in the EU and NATO.

In fact, there has been a very long, sustained societal consensus around this issue, and there is a sense among a clear majority of Georgians that the country's historical destiny and political future lies with Europe. So this kind of a U-turn was quite dramatic. And that was an immediate trigger of this process.

QUEST: Right.

SABANADZE: But I would say that there were also some underlying more systemic reasons why it has taken such a -- such a turn and these include precisely what you said, this kind of an increasing sense that the current party in control in Georgia is making the country increasingly aligned with Russia and the indicators of this alignment are precisely the foreign agents law, which was adopted.

QUEST: Right. But let me just jump in there. Let me just jump in there, if I may. Because if that is the case --

SABANADZE: Sure.

QUEST: Does the government have the obviously has the army and it has the military force, but how far can it go if the will of the people is so far against it on this crucial point?

SABANADZE: Yeah. So at the moment, we see exactly that. It's the fight of the wills, who's going to give in first. And there is a clear determination on both sides.

I mean, for Georgians who are standing out there and protesting, Europe is not just about membership in the club of prosperous nations. It is almost like a metaphor for freedom, for democracy, non- domination and most importantly, it's non-Russia. So this connection that Georgia needs to be anchored in the institutional west in order to remain democratic and independent in Russia's neighborhood is very strong.

So the government -- well, the party in control because the legitimacy of the government is contested at the moment has deployed quite a lot of brutal force. There are scenes of brutal handling by the police or other special forces. There are reports that these are kind of security companies that are also being employed.

So we don't know how much security resource is there to sustain this confrontation.

QUEST: OK, all right. OK. So as this plays out over the next few weeks and months, is there a turning point that we should keep our eye on?

SABANADZE: Well, really, there are two ways out of this crisis. I mean, when you have a political, constitutional crisis in democracies normally you call for new elections and this is one of the demands of the protesters. They want the rerun of elections. They want release of prisoners that -- who have been detained as a result of this crackdown and it's very important that these elections are held under different electoral administrations, so that we do not have the repeat of what had happened.

Alternative is, of course, to go all the way and crack down forcefully and sort of take a Belarus style scenario. But as I mentioned, it is not clear whether there is enough security resources to do that. The government probably would prefer to see the protests fizzle out and not go in that direction, and to basically finish its job of capturing state institutions and taking the country to the authoritarian rule gradually, and, you know less dramatically.

QUEST: All right. I'm grateful for you. Thank you for joining us tonight. Thank you.

SABANADZE: Thanks so much for having me.

QUEST: As we continue, celebrating the reopening of Notre Dame after years of construction following a fire, the Paris cathedral is finally reopening this weekend.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:52:25]

QUEST: President Macron is preparing for Paris's magnificent cathedral, Notre Dame, to reopen after more than four years since the fire. The dignitaries of the Catholic Church, their various heads of state and celebrities are all coming for Saturday's official opening. The inaugural mass is scheduled for Sunday morning, followed by eight days of special masses and prayers. The artisans, carpenters and other specialists who will all be there after the devastating fire tore through it.

The day Notre Dame went up in flames. The whole world looked on in horror.

Listen to the way CNN reporters who witnessed the chaos as it unfolded.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARK ESPLIN, CNN PHOTOJOURNALIST: We got the phone call that there was a fire in Notre Dame. So we ran out the door. You could already see the bloom of smoke.

SASKYA VANDOORNE, CNN SENIOR PRODUCER: I just saw flames atop Notre Dame. I was stopped in my tracks. That image will always, you know, forever stay in my mind.

ESPLIN: As we arrived, so did the crowds and it's really chaos.

MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think all at once there was the shock that could have happened, the fact that it was spiraling out of control, the way the flames continued to grow.

ESPLIN: There's lots of people crying. You're looking around, you really felt like you were witnessing a moment in history.

VANDOORNE: It must have been around 10 p.m. or 11 p.m. Parisians started kneeling, praying, some were crying.

A moment of kind of reflection, calm in all that madness. I still have chills thinking about it.

ESPLIN: The first time we went in, the most striking part was where the spire had collapsed through the ceiling. This huge hole of like burnt out wood.

Everything is still covered in soot, broken glass everywhere. It really feels like you're walking through a fire.

You sort of forget how big trees are when they're 100 years old.

We then went back to a workshop where people were carving and forming the shapes of those beams with the trees that we'd seen felled. They've brought these techniques from hundreds of years ago into the present and have managed to pull it off.

BELL: I think I was struck most by just how painstaking and elaborate their work was.

[15:55:04]

There were woodworkers, there were stonemasons, there were individual crafts.

ESPLIN: It's just this endless pylon of scaffolding.

VANDOORNE: I remember going in and just thinking how they're going to get this done in time.

BELL: The drones allowed us to see in intricate detail and above human eye level the stonework, the beams, the paintings. Everything that makes Notre Dame so remarkable in its detail.

VANDOORNE: It's so much more than just a cathedral. Notre Dame is Paris. It's a place where I hope to bring my children once it reopens.

BELL: Anyone going back in will have their own personal journey of what it means. I'll, yes, probably go back to my childhood when I go back inside of course. The world will rediscover what they'd forgotten, their own Notre Dame.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: It is truly spectacular having visited it.

And I'm grateful for you visiting us today. I'm Richard Quest. In a few moments, I'll have "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" with the day's business events.