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Rebels Claim Control Of Damascus, Search For Assad. Aired 2-3a ET

Aired December 08, 2024 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[02:01:03]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN ANCHOR: Well, hello and welcome to viewers watching around the world. I'm Becky Anderson.

And we begin with breaking news in Syria, where 50 years of authoritarian rule by the Assad family has crumbled in the face of a lightning fast rebel offensive. In a statement carried on state TV, the rebels declared they have, quote, liberated the capital Damascus.

Well, the rebels are seen celebrating on the grounds of the Syrian presidential palace and they are searching, they say, for President Bashar al-Assad, who has not been seen or heard from since early (VIDEO GAP) tells CNN that the Syrian military there has fallen as scenes of chaos unfolded inside Damascus airport early Sunday, with people rushing to flee the country.

Here is what the Syrian prime minister had to say about the growing crisis.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOHAMMAD GHAZI AL-JALALI, SYRIAN PRIME MINISTER: We are ready to cooperate with any leadership the people choose, offering all possible support to ensure a smooth and systematic transition of government functions, preserving state facilities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Well, rebels have been sweeping through the country since launching this offensive last week. They claim to have captured four cities in one day before reaching the capital of Damascus.

Well, Syrians seen tearing down and setting fire to posters of the President Assad. Rebels say senior Assad regime officials are preparing now to defect in the capital.

Well, for more on this, let's get you live to Paula Hancocks is with me in the studio here in Abu Dhabi. This is going at lightning speed.

So let's just get us back up to speed on where we stand at this point. What do we understand to be happening on the ground? PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, Becky, we've had the official

announcement now from the rebels. They've taken over the state-run media to control the narrative. They have come on air and they say that they have liberated Damascus, saying the city of Damascus was liberated, the regime of the tyrant Bashar al-Assad was toppled, also saying that all the prisoners from the state prisons, they call them political prisoners, were also released.

Now, what we understand is that the rebels said that they were going to try and take over key strategic institutions within the city as well. We have seen that they have been on the grounds of one of the presidential palaces. It's very reminiscent of what we've seen in the past when there has been a brutal dictator toppled and those who have come to liberate the city have -- have then moved into those particular areas.

We have heard from a source familiar with, with this as well, that the rebels are actively looking for Bashar al-Assad at this point, that they are -- they're questioning senior military officials. They're questioning (VIDEO GAP) exactly where he is, because he hasn't been seen since the rebels started to -- to enter the capital. There are plenty of reports out there about where he may be that he has fled the city. He's fled the country. We don't have confirmed reporting on this at this point but he hasn't been seen.

So it is a very different Damascus, a very different Syria that the residents are waking up to this morning.

ANDERSON: And some of these images absolutely remarkable given where this country has been for more than a decade -- decade, embroiled in conflict. But we've been in this sort of, you know, somewhat period of somewhat status quo for some years. And then suddenly in the past week, we have seen this huge rebel offensive. So when we talk about the rebels, what are we -- who do we mean?

[02:05:04]

Who are these rebels? Who are they associated with? Who's funding them?

HANCOCKS: There are a number of different groups. There's one main group that we need to know about, which is HTS, this is the Hayat Tahrir al-Sham. They're the ones that have been leading the charge effectively across the country, and that that are leading in Damascus.

But there are a myriad of different rebel groups that are part of this in different parts of the country. As well, there are some that are Turkish backed, some that are American backed, some that are Kurdish fighters that Turkey considers to be a terrorist organization.

So it is an incredibly complex group of different, of different entities that are part of this. But HTS is most definitely the most prominent part. It is a group that up until just several years ago was affiliated with al Qaeda. So this is -- this is a group that, I mean, the individual al-Jolani -- Abu Mohammad al-Jolani, who's the head, he has a $10 million bounty on his head. He is designated or his groups designated as a terrorist organization.

So it's not (VIDEO GAP) clear picture that we're looking at here that the bad has been removed and the good comes in. It is extremely complex and it's difficult to see what happens next.

ANDERSON: Yeah, and what unfolds over the coming days is going to be absolutely fascinating.

And thank you for the time being. Paula Hancocks is in Abu Dhabi with me.

I'm joined now by Kim Ghattas. Kim is a global politics fellow at Columbia University, a contributing writer to "The Atlantic", a good friend of this show, joins us live from Los Angeles.

Kim, firstly, I just want to get your assessment of what we are seeing and hearing on the ground in Syria at this hour.

KIM GHATTAS, CONTRIBUTING WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: Becky, great to be with you and very strange for me to be in Los Angeles, where I happen to be for a work trip, but where I really want to be is back home in, in Beirut, because these are truly momentous, historic events for Syria, for Syrians, for Lebanon and the region, as a whole, a murderous dictatorship that has ruled over Syria for 54 years, occupied Lebanon for 35 years, and then pushed this country into a bloody civil war after 2011, when a civilian uprising demanded freedom and reforms. That dictatorship has now come to an end.

We don't know where Bashar al-Assad is, but it is game over for him. I don't foresee any possible return of pockets of resistance. This is really the end, and it has implications for the wider region, for the Iranian axis of proxy militias in the region, from Iraq to Lebanon, for Hezbollah, specifically across the border in Lebanon which has been decimated in this war with Israel that just ended with a ceasefire just last week.

And all of this is coinciding with that, with that ceasefire, which is really interesting to note. For Hezbollah, this is a moment where they will feel isolated geographically because they will no longer be able to rely on supply lines of weapons from Iran, and politically, because their key patron, Iran, feels vulnerable and their key ally in Syria, Bashar al-Assad. The Assad regime is now gone.

But most importantly, Becky, this is a moment where even though we know we at some point tomorrow -- after tomorrow, need to think about what this is going to mean for the future of Syria. It's a treacherous dangerous road ahead there could be infighting between the different rebel groups. There could be more violence.

We can only hope for a smooth transition from here. But this is really a moment to embrace the joy that Syrians are feeling, to see their country returning to them and away from this dictatorship. The scenes from Damascus, from Aleppo, from Homs, from Hama, from these prisons where people are being let free are just incredible. And that is a moment, really, that we need to pause and -- and give credit to the Syrians who worked so hard and paid so dearly in blood (ph) and soil over those -- over those years.

ANDERSON: And there is no doubt that millions of Syrians will be celebrating today. Those who are outside of the country, displaced outside of the country, and there are millions of those and the millions internally, of course, who are displaced, as many as 14 million.

Let's just step back for a moment and consider what has happened over the past week. This lightning speed offensive by these rebel groups who are they and what is your assessment of the planning and strategy for this past weeks' worth of offensive?

[02:10:17]

GHATTAS: I mean, in a way we can say that they've been planning this for 13 years, really, and that this was at some point going to, maybe not be inevitable. But this is, you know, this has been a long time in the making. I don't think that anybody expected or foresaw the downfall of Bashar al-Assad so quickly. But a lot of these groups have been around for a while. As your colleague was saying earlier, you know, Hayat Tahrir al-Sham in the north, Kurdish factions in the northeast, other factions in the south. And this became, in essence, a pincer movement that isolated Bashar al-Assad in Damascus.

And the rebel groups had spent some time, it appears, and I think a lot of details will be revealed in the coming days or weeks, had spent some time setting up coordination amongst each other and infiltrating, of course the regime itself. And they were able to do that because the regime of Bashar al-Assad was in essence, ruling over what was a decrepit state -- excuse me -- that was falling apart, that couldn't really provide for its people anymore. And the result is it crumbled so, so quickly.

Another element as I mentioned, is the ceasefire that happened recently in Lebanon after a devastating war which decimated Hezbollah, which showed that Bashar al-Assad was going to be on his own from now on. There was really no possibility anymore for Hezbollah to come to his aid, as they had in the past. Similarly for Iran and, of course, Russia is busy with Ukraine as well.

So Bashar al-Assad was on his own, and this was the moment for these opposition groups, these rebel groups to -- to strike with the tacit support of a country like Turkey. And to some extent, I think also a different attitude within Israel, because they've always thought that the Assad regime was convenient for Israel. They haven't launched one attack against Israel since 1973, and always used proxies like Hezbollah to make life difficult for Israel.

But the Assad regime sitting in Damascus was quite a convenient enemy for Israel, except that I think there's a realization. There's been a realization in Israel that Bashar al-Assad also allowed Iran and Hezbollah to grow powerful on Israel's eastern flank. And that simply did not suit anymore in the current context of this region.

ANDERSON: Kim, it's good to have you. Thank you very much indeed for the time being, as we consider these images into CNN. We've got a lot more breaking news on Syria.

Millions of Syrians, as we say, will be celebrating today. There will be thousands of others in Damascus allied with the President Bashar al Assad regime, who will be feeling extremely apprehensive at this point. We are getting reports that key figures have been defecting, both from the administration and from the military, can't stand that up as of yet. These things will come to light in the hours to come.

Bashar al-Assad, as Kim was pointing out, supported for years by Iran and by Russia. And it does seem to be the assessment of experts in this region that they have abandoned him. And why at this point is key to the basis for this story -- is key to understanding what is going on here. And we will do that in the hours to come. But the city of Damascus and other cities across Syria today, a very different place than they were just 24 hours ago.

It's led this overthrow to scenes like this, not just in Damascus, of course, but other Syrian cities like Homs, with people in the streets, gunfire, celebratory gunfire in many places. But again, let's consider that this is not a move from dictatorship to democracy overnight by any stretch of the imagination.

And we will continue to get more for you on this, as I say in the hours to come. We will take a very short break.

Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:18:16]

ANDERSON: Well, an update now on the breaking news in Syria. Rebel troops searching for President Bashar al-Assad after declaring on state TV that they have liberated Damascus and I quote them there. Video showing celebrations like this one happening in Damascus and in other cities.

And in the al-Mawasi neighborhood of the capital, these people carried a huge Syrian rebel flag down the street. The area houses government institutions or rebels now control a large section of Syria, as you see in green on this map. Government forces are said to be in control of the areas in red.

The country's prime minister says he is ready to work with, quote, any leadership that the people choose. The United Nations envoy for Syria calling for calm and calling to avoid bloodshed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEIR PEDERSEN, U.N. ENVOY FOR SYRIA: The need for an orderly political transition has never been more urgent, starting with the urgent formation of inclusive and credible transitional arrangements in Syria. For this, we need an urgent, serious process fundamentally different from what has gone on before.

(END VIDEO CLIP) ANDERSON: Well, Russian, Turkish and Iranian foreign ministers met in Doha on Saturday. They were together as part of the Astana process meant to seek a political solution to the Syrian conflict.

Geir Pedersen was speaking to there. They expressed concern for the Syrian people even as events on the ground sped forward at lightning speed.

[02:20:07]

It was an unexpected pace. Turkey particularly concerned about potential refugees. They say millions of Syrians, of course have sought refuge in other countries since the civil war began in 2011. The majority have settled in Turkey. Nearly 3 million -- more than 7 million are internally displaced.

Well, Russia had been a strong supporter of the Assad regime, particularly since 2014. They helped keep him in power during what has been this country's civil war.

Let's get you some more perspective now from CNN's Paula Newton.

Paula, how was Assad supported by Russia and why? What was Moscow's interest in what was a very significant presence there?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, a significant process -- presence and definitely, as you say, for about a decade now, and Russia, in coming to Assad's aid. And as you know, Becky, it is very doubtful that Assad would have been able to hang on and really fought out that Syrian civil war the way they did to hang on, without Russia's help crucially, crucially with its air superiority.

At stake now though, Becky, is Russia and two very key assets that it has in Syria. That would be an air base. But also the important port of Tartus. And it seems in some way, shape or form, Becky, that Russia is coming to terms with this seismic change in the balance of power that will now happen in the region. And it's interesting because Sergey Lavrov, as you were just saying, was at the Doha Forum.

Certainly he met with his colleagues from both -- from Turkey as well to discuss exactly what was going on. And yet he seemed to have only words and very little else in terms of support for Syria. In fact, he said that at this point in time, he thought that using terrorists to in his words, achieve geopolitical purposes was not the way to do this. And he said that Russia did not care how it looked, as if they were suffering a loss in Syria and that their concern was for the Russian people but it is crucial that even at a time think about it, Becky, even this week Russia was carrying out military exercises from both that air base and from that key port off the coast. There in the Mediterranean coast. And yet did not come to the aid of Syria in any material form.

I think the seismic shift continues, and I think that when you look at the transactional nature of the Trump administration coming in, that Russia has decided that perhaps backing al-Assad in this way would have been more trouble than it was worth, especially given how stretched they are in Ukraine and have decided to leave it at this.

Again. You could definitely sense the air of resignation yesterday with Mr. Lavrov speaking about this at length but not wanting to. And in fact wanting to speak more about Ukraine and that certainly spoke volumes.

We will continue to see in the coming hours and days exactly what their involvement was, if any, and whether or not if al Assad is truly out of Syria, whether or not Russia aided in his safe passage.

ANDERSON: Yeah. Why they have decided to abandon him now and why -- why this makes strategic sense at this point is a discussion that we will continue to have over the days to come. We know that President Assad has been traveling between Damascus and Moscow, for years. We know that he was in Moscow very recently where he is now, not clear at this point, reports suggesting that he had flown out of Damascus. But the routing of that flight not clear.

And we are only reading reports that are sort of available on widely at this point about where he might be. And we will continue to source more information on his whereabouts. Paula Newton for the time being, thank you very much indeed.

So that is the sort of Syria through the perspective of Russia, rebel forces meantime in Syria, then mounting what was a lightning offensive this week. They have taken much of the country, including the capital from government control. The latest on that and more. What happens next in Syria? Why this is significant not just for Syria and Syrians, but what this means for the wider region at a very pivotal moment is after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:28:19]

ANDERSON: Welcome back.

The latest now on our breaking news in Syria. Rebel troops there have claimed control of Damascus, the capital and they've now been seen on the grounds of the presidential palace. The rebels are searching for President Bashar al-Assad whose whereabouts are currently unknown. In the capital, scenes like this are playing out. People standing on a tank posing with weapons, waving a Syrian flag.

And this was what was happening at the Damascus airport. This video verified by CNN, shows dozens of people quickly passing through security checkpoints some rushing to departure gates in an attempt to flee the country.

The airport, though, appeared to be largely unstaffed and flight monitoring websites showed no imminent departures scheduled. Clearly, you know apprehension on the part of some Syrians, those potentially aligned with the regime and celebration, by so many others in so many of these cities.

Hours ago, Syria's prime minister announced the government stands ready to, quote, cooperate with any leadership. The people choose to ensure a smooth and systematic transition.

CNN's Nic Robertson explains how that transition could look with the current militant leader of HTS spearheading this takeover.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Jolani as head of HTS is the military commander, and we're still in the military phase. So this is very much under -- under his control the political move forward from this. And he's articulated in part, he said that he wants to see all foreign forces leave the country.

[02:30:07]

And another senior political figure who's been on the landscape of trying to negotiate peace with the Assad regime almost a decade ago and has been very much at the forefront of continuing as a political leader in the opposition. He told me this. He said, look, once you have that military control, once you have that transition of power, the government, this sort of the government institutions, the government buildings, the running of the country, the day to day, the paying of pensions, all those sorts of things that are, that are, that are vital for the country to keep ticking along.

Once the military has done its job of securing the cities and the countryside, they want to be able to pass on to a political -- onto a political set of leaders. And the initial idea would be that that -- there would be an interim period of a 6 to 9-month period of a -- of a sort of a power sharing agreement between all the different political factions before it would then go to a vote for the public. And that's -- that's really aspirational at this stage.

I mean, let's remember that this evening tonight in Damascus, the rebel command has told their fighters not to shoot in the air. But we're seeing a lot of shooting in the air, and the fight to for control of the whole country is not over yet. We're seeing pockets of it, pieces of it.

We don't know where Bashar al-Assad will end up. And if he'll coalesce support around him, and if that will be in the northwest of the country or the Mediterranean, around Latakia, you know, sort of his home turf, if you will where he has a lot of support, and if the rebels would try to shut that down, and if they can do it quickly, the political process perhaps holds on that. There are so many, so many questions at this moment but I think everything that we've seen so far indicates that they do want to make a smooth transition and that there is a plan.

When I spoke to this political very senior political figure earlier, this evening, I did not expect him to be able to tell me specifically, step by step what they what they plan to do. Um, but its very clear that planning has been going on.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: Well, that's Nic Robertson for you. Joining me now is Bader al-Saif. Bader is a history professor at

Kuwait University and an associate fellow at Chatham House. He's in Doha in Qatar where many of the key regional stakeholders are this weekend.

It's good to have you, Bader. I know you have been speaking to those behind the scenes there who are gathered in Doha this weekend.

What we are witnessing is historic. This is historic for Syria and Syrians after 50 years of authoritarian rule by the Assad family. And this is historic monumental, pivotal for this wider region and lets start there and then zoom in, because as we witnessed over the past week or so, what has been this lightning fast rebel push towards Damascus this wider region has been watching this and wondering what happens next.

Can you just explain what your assessment is at this point?

BADER AL-SAIF, PROFESSOR, KUWAIT UNIVERSITY: You're right, Becky. This is a momentous time in the history of the Middle East. The Syrians have spoken. We have to listen. They've been speaking for decades.

This is a moment in time in which Arabs have proven once again that they are normal, like any other part of the world in which people have agency, they can speak up. And if a regime is not serving its people, it's the time for it to move on.

And I think that the people of Syria have shown us just that. This is different from the various momentous changes that took place in other places in the Middle East in the past decades in which Iraq and Libya had foreign intervention. This was done from within by Syria.

So I think we need to recognize this. We also need to recognize the miseries the agonies, the injustices that the Syrian people have gone through over the decades. So this is a momentous time. No doubt. And there is also the regional element. There will be a major regional shift in the balance of power with Iran weakening, with the opening up of spaces for various parties.

So Iran is no longer can claim the Shiite crescent, if you may this is a different thing that the region has not witnessed in decades. And there is also a reckoning for other proxies that I'm sure are nervous. The Houthis watching how Iran is reacting to the Syria situation and how they need to recalibrate in Yemen, for example.

[02:35:06]

There is also a rethinking in place in which the migration process or the migration issue and the refugee status of the many Syrians in Europe and other parts of the world. Now, this is another issue that now will see a comeback and could resolve some of the strains that probably Turkey and the Europeans states have had in the past.

So there are various levels to it. It's a multi-layered process. It's very complex. We have more questions than answers, but I think we need to keep in

mind that this is something that shows that the region has always been shifting. The region will continue to shift, and I think we need to manage those expectations moving forward.

ANDERSON: So, Bader, lets talk about this axis of resistance that you speak to, and you very specifically talked about the Houthis, for example in Yemen, which is part of this. I mean, you could argue that this is the fall of the Berlin wall moment for the Iran backed axis of resistance gone, it seems now is the influence of Iran through its proxy groups around this region.

What that means for Iran and the -- and the Arab world is huge. And you are absolutely right to point that out. So what does that look like going forward? And let's just explain for our viewers what has happened over the past, what sort of 18 months or so that has brought us to where we are today? Because what is been going on in Syria is as -- is part of a kind of wider tectonic plate shifting that has been going on now for some time. I also want you to speak very specifically to these rebel groups, if you will, because they are armed and backed by others.

And let's be quite clear about this. This is not a lurch from dictatorship or authoritarian sort of rule by the Assad family over 50 years to democracy overnight, by any stretch of the imagination.

So this is -- this is going to be very complex very complicated and possibly, quite painful before things might get better for those Syrians on the ground and those who are abroad who might want to go home at this point.

AL-SAIF: Sure. Let me start with the last question. Look, there is no doubt that the Syrian people have been in a bind between the Assad regime and now with what you have in Hayat Tahrir al-Sham and it's interesting that they've been fighting different wars or different layered wars. There has been a war of narratives. They're trying to pose as a post-Islamist group that's more moderate in demeanor.

We've seen them release different statements, even in different languages, trying to, you know, reach out to the Iranians, to the Shiites protection of, you know, minorities and spaces. Reach out to neighboring countries like Iraq and Jordan, and reach out to the different minorities in the country.

It's still words. We need to see more actions to make sure that this is where we're going to head. Given the track record of previous groups along that space, it hasn't been encouraging. It will be a very interesting space for them to up the game and to walk the talk.

Now in terms of the axis of resistance for decades, Iran has been putting forward what they call a forward defense strategy in which their battles are fought across proxy and mainly Arab land. And this is an issue that we've had when it comes to Iran interfering in internal affairs. And this has been in the past 18 months, been moving through a very serious time. Has it -- can we call the axis of resistance dead? I would be cautious

to not declare that as of yet. They've been seriously damaged I think it behooves the Iranians to think quite hard, and that there is an arm stretched from the Gulf Arab states, and they want to work with them together in moving this region into a more secure issue.

Look, the issue is with Iran, they need to join us in the Gulf Arab States in putting out a more moderate vision for their own people. This is a region that needs to coexist with different factions and different backgrounds. And this has been the message.

Now, they have the place for them to prove that with Syria, they haven't reacted to the fall of Assad in trying to pump him up as they did ten years ago. This is a moment in which has it has been delayed for the Syrian people. So we need to say, see how this moves forward with the Iranian involvement everyone is watching. And I think other spaces in the region will also be looking for ways in which they can also overcome the tensions that they're undergoing, namely in Yemen at this moment.

[02:40:01]

ANDERSON: Bader, it's really good to have you on. Your analysis and insight is so important, and you provide that much wider lens that we need as we concentrate our efforts on the ground today in pulling in video for our viewers and understanding what is going on -- on the ground in trying to identify where Bashar al Assad is at this point and what happens next, that wider lens, what goes on in Syria does not stay in Syria, and that wider lens is so important.

And just for our viewers sake, the U.S. administration, as we understand it, the Biden administration watching developments in Syria and we will get more from the White House and stay as we move through the day.

Bader al-Saif in Doha, thank you very much indeed.

We are going to take a very quick break. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: Well, rebel forces in Syria say the capital of Damascus has been liberated, claiming President Bashar al-Assad has been overthrown.

People celebrating in the streets, some carrying a huge rebel flag. The rebels actively searching for Assad, who has not been seen or heard from now in days. A source tells CNN they are questioning Syrian military officers and intelligence officials who might have knowledge about Assad's movements.

[02:45:02]

Well, rebel fighters have taken over several cities in what has been a shock offensive launched just last week, Syria's prime minister says the government is ready to, quote, cooperate with any leadership the people choose.

Well, the U.S. or the Biden administration says it is watching developments in Syria. Meantime, U.S. President-elect Donald Trump weighed in on the escalating situation in Syria posting on social media in the past 24 hours or so, quote: The United States should have nothing to do with it this is not our fight. Let it play out. Do not get involved, exclamation mark.

But Trump also criticized the Obama administration for failing to enforce a 2013 red line, which stated that Syria's use of chemical weapons would mean U.S. military action. The president-elect also said that the ouster of Bashar al-Assad might be good for Russia, because there is no benefit for Moscow in supporting Syria.

Well, we have certainly seen what appears to be the abandoning of President Assad by both Russia and Iran. The days ahead, of course, will reveal more. But certainly the influence -- a significant influence that we've seen from Russia militarily in support of President Bashar al-Assad since 2013, 2014, and that red line moment with President Obama, that significant military influence certainly is nowhere to be seen from the Russians at present for.

A closer look at the military situation, then in Syria, retired U.S. Army Major General Mark MacCarley joins us now.

And from a military perspective, sir, what is firstly your assessment of what has unfolded in the past week in Syria?

MAJ. GEN. MARK MACCARLEY, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Well, it's got to be historic and as I discussed a few minutes ago, it was a huge, to use a term surprise unanticipated, not necessarily impossible, but the collapse and the fall of the Syrian army in what amounts to about five days, is an extraordinary event, just looking at the capabilities that the Syrian army had over time, a lot of us expected that Assad would put up some level of defense, especially as the rebel forces were approaching Damascus.

The thought process was that Assad's what can best be called sort of its Praetorian guard, meaning his closest those soldiers most loyal to him would have ringed the city and prevented any sort of entry. Didn't happen.

So you have a collapse of support for Assad. But there is a further sort of conversation point that I really believe we've got to put forward, and that is we've got rebel forces have established a foothold in Damascus, certainly Homs, Hama and Aleppo and the surrounding areas.

The one thing that we have not yet discussed, which is a big concern, is the -- is the extent to which Assad, over the last years during the course of the civil war and afterward, has rearmed his country and that includes the missiles, the drones and more significantly, caches of what we suspect chemical weapons and the question would be whether or not, in a moment of desperation --

ANDERSON: Let's hold that thought. Yeah. The question will be, of course, what? You know what happens to those next, exactly, yeah.

Let me just run two other things past you while I've got you here. From a military perspective, what is your assessment of what is the seeming abandonment by Russia, a key strategic ally of the president, in waging this war against the opposition since 2013?

MACCARLEY: Certainly. There's no possible way I can put myself into Putin's head or those leaders in the Kremlin who are focusing on what's taking place in Syria. But I think that this is sort of a tactical, not necessarily strategic -- strategic meaning the big picture, but this is a tactical decision on the part of Moscow that Assad has got to go.

He has limited support. What I would expect Moscow to do in the next couple of days is to establish and reach out to the rebels across the span of the organizations that constitute the HGA (ph) and begin to establish relationships there, which from our perspective and American perspective, should be an objective on our part as well.

[02:50:09]

ANDERSON: Good stuff.

Mark, it's good to have you. Thank you very much indeed.

And as we talk about Russia, I just want to bring up what the President-elect Donald Trump has actually posted within the last 40 minutes. I read before we got to Mark MacCarley, the post by Donald Trump in the past 24 hours saying, this is not our fight. The U.S. should not be involved.

Well, this is what he has posted within the last 40 minutes. So let's just have a look at this, given that this is the president of the United States from January the 20th.

What is going on now will still be sort of being gamed out between now and then so what Donald Trump says now is significant, and this is what he has said in the last 40 minutes. Assad is gone. He has fled his country, his protector Russia, Russia, Russia led by Vladimir Putin, not interested in protecting him any longer.

These are the words, of course, of Donald Trump.

There was no reason for Russia to be there in the first place. They lost all interest in Syria because of Ukraine, where close to 600,000 Russian soldiers lay wounded or dead in a war that should never have started and could go on forever. Russia and Iran are in a weakened state right now, he posts, one because of Ukraine and a bad economy, the other because of Israel and its fighting success.

Likewise, Zelenskyy and Ukraine would like to make a deal and stop the madness. Again, the words of Donald Trump here, posting on truth social. He says they had ridiculously lost 400,000 soldiers and many more civilians. There should be an immediate ceasefire and negotiations should begin too many lives are being so needlessly wasted, too many families destroyed, and if it keeps going it can turn into something much bigger and far worse.

I know Vladimir well, says Donald Trump. This is his time to act. China can help. The world is waiting. The post of the president-elect, the U.S. President-elect Donald Trump. In the past 40 minutes or so.

We are covering what is going on in Syria. This is a breaking story. It has significance, not just in Russia, but for the wider region, and given the refugee sort of crisis wider than just the Middle East, back after this.

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[02:56:21]

ANDERSON: Well, an update now on the breaking news in Syria. Rebel troops searching for president Bashar al Assad after declaring on state TV that they have, quote, liberated Damascus. This video shows rebels a short time ago announcing on Syrian television that Damascus has been liberated and social media video from the city of Homs shows a large crowd tearing down a statue of former Syrian President Hafez al Assad.

You're watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Becky Anderson.

We are going to take a very short break. Back with more of our breaking news after this.