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Rebels Claim Control of Damascus, Assad's Whereabouts Unknown. Aired 5-6a ET

Aired December 08, 2024 - 05:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[05:00:33]

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN ANCHOR: And welcome to all of you watching in the United States and wherever you are watching around the world. I'm Becky Anderson in Abu Dhabi. This is CNN Newsroom. And we begin today with breaking news out of Syria where the rebellion that started 13 years ago has finally toppled the iron-fisted rule of the Assad family.

In a statement carried on state TV, Syrian rebels declared that they have, quote, "liberated the capital of Damascus," claiming President Bashar al-Assad has been overthrown.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): With the help of God, the city of Damascus was liberated and the regime of the tyrant Bashar al-Assad was toppled, all prisoners from the prisons of the regime were liberated. The operation center of Fateh Dimashk asks all brothers, jihadists and citizens to preserve all the belongings of the Syrian state. Long live free Syria."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Well, you see, in this video, the Prime Minister, Mohammad Ghazi al-Jalali, being escorted by rebels in Damascus slightly earlier this morning. They purportedly took him to a hotel so that he could hand over government authority.

Well, rebels seen celebrating in the grounds of the Syrian presidential palace this morning as well. And they say they are searching for President Assad, who has not been seen or heard from in days.

Well, let's remind ourselves that rebels have been sweeping through the country of Syria since launching what was this lightning offensive last week. They captured four cities in one day before reaching the capital, Damascus, there in the south.

New video shows the rebel flag raised over Damascus hospital and military uniforms littering the streets. Iran's embassy in the city also stormed during the takeover, according to Iranian state media. Well, back with me now is CNN's Paula Hancocks, who is monitoring the

situation from here in Abu Dhabi. It is 1:00 o'clock in the afternoon, Sunday, the 9th of December, am I right in saying that? I think it is the 9th of December. This will be a day that many, many, many millions of Syrians will remember for the rest of their lives.

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They certainly will. And it is a day of great celebration for those millions. It is a day of uncertainty as to what comes next. But you can't underplay what is happening here and just how that will make many people feel. You see the celebrations on the street. You see them toppling statues of Bashar al-Assad, of his father as well, the former president and dictator.

So there is no doubt that there is a celebratory feeling amongst most in Damascus. We could see in some images, actually, it was interesting, on the presidential palace you saw people coming into the palace itself. You could see children among there. It was almost a family day out. You go to where the president once had his seat of power and you could see some looting. You could see people coming out with chairs, with tables.

Unmixed among them were the rebels, the gunmen. It seemed a very peaceful transition in that sense. So this is what we are trying to piece together at this point, what is happening on the ground. We see the Prime Minister, as you mentioned, being escorted from his home and then going to hand over authority. That appeared to be a peaceful transition, as the Prime Minister himself had said he wanted to see.

And then you see these celebratory pictures as well. But at the same time, you also hear that Iran's embassy, for example, in Damascus, that has been stormed. We have seen that from press TV. We have seen from Saudi TV that there is damage, that there are pictures of Qasem Soleimani, who was the commander of the IRGC, being ripped up.

So at the same time as you have this feeling of celebration, you also have this feeling of anger as to what had happened and some retribution and retaliation against, for example, the Iranian embassy, those that were behind the Assad regime.

ANDERSON: And much speculation about just how much coordination there has been behind the scenes between rebel forces and government officials. There clearly has been some sort of coordination. And what that looks like, we will effort more information on. And no clear indication as to where Bashar al-Assad, the -- what now I guess we might call former president of Syria is.

[05:05:23]

HANCOCKS: At this point, there is nothing concrete. There are plenty of rumors, there is plenty of speculation about flight paths, about where he may have gone. We know that the rebels themselves are actively looking for him, according to some amongst their groups, that they're questioning military commanders, they're questioning the intelligence officials, they want to find him. But he hasn't been seen of since they actually came into the capital itself. ANDERSON: Good to have you, Paula. Paula Hancocks in the house for

you. Let's get you to Vienna, in Austria, Syrian writer and journalist Rime Allaf. And in London, CNN's Nick Paton Walsh.

Reem, as you watch the images unfold from Syria this morning, your thoughts?

RIME ALLAF, WRITER & JOURNALIST: First of all, elation for all the Syrians who've waited 54 years for freedom from this regime. And I have to remind everybody, it is not just the Bashar al-Assad regime, it is the Assad regime as a whole.

There's also apprehension. I think everybody understands full well, all over Syria, not just in Damascus, that things could go very wrong. People, I believe, were reassured so far by the leader of the rebels, even though this is not necessarily what they would have hoped for, you know, to have a transition in this manner. But they are hopeful that we have already a resolution.

For nine years now, the United Nations Security Council 2254, which had always planned for negotiations between the opposition and the government, then a constitution to be drafted and then elections to be held. So this is what I believe I and many Syrians are holding on to for the time being.

ANDERSON: And you're right to be concerned, hopeful, but voicing your concerns about what happens next. It's been an extreme for so many Syrians, of course, internally displaced, displaced outside of the country. You know, let's acknowledge, as you rightly have, that this is, you know, this is a new dawn for so many.

Nick, what do we know about those who are leading the charge, in charge of what that transition from the Assad family is going to look like?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, I mean, look, it's incredibly early days, Becky, and I think what's important to, I think it's important to remember that we are hearing inclusive messages from this rebel group so far, reaching out to minorities, explaining that there's a space for the variety of different religions, the different parts of the Islamic faith to make up Syria within this new government. But you have to remember, this would be an extraordinary achievement after the horrific sectarian nature of the civil war. And remember, too, that predominantly this rebel force is going to be Sunni.

And there clearly are groups that have had more moderate, more sort of less religious motivations behind them that form part of the group. But ultimately, their figurehead, al-Jalali, is somebody who previously had affiliations with al-Qaeda that means there's still a $10 million bounty on his head.

So it's a very complex needle for them to thread going forwards, because I think this group are going to have to simultaneously satisfy the anger and the sort of sense of sacrifice of its own fighters, while at the same time, too, trying to put out a message to the international community that they're not just another iteration of that sectarian hatred.

And, of course, try and get some international aid in, too. Remember, so much of Syria is rubble at the moment and needs desperate, urgent rebuilding. There's an acute hunger crisis.

So the needs of tomorrow, as we've seen in the past, people who are very good at toppling regimes or governments turn out to be rubbish at governing. But it does seem that behind this particular rebel movement that there are a lot of fairly well-sophisticated backers.

ANDERSON: Rime, I know that you are -- you remain politically independent, but you've been committed to supporting Syria's transition to a democratic and pluralistic state for years now. And I know you and I have spoken in the past. And I'm talking about way back when, you know, 2011, when there was such a push to sort of end this regime and or, you know, look -- look at what a political solution would look like.

[05:10:20]

And we're talking about a U.N. resolution, which feels so old really now. You know, there were political groups involved, both internally and externally, who were looking at what that political solution would look like.

To Nick's point now, it's rebel groups and their backers who are now ultimately, it feels in charge of what, you know, this transition might look like. I mean, I hear the UN. I listen to the envoy for Syria speaking in Doha yesterday about Resolution 2254. But frankly, you know, I'd like to hear from you, you know, what you realistically believe can and will happen next and how confident, you know, you can be in this looking sort of robust and inclusive going forward.

ALLAF: I just completely agree with you, Becky. I am apprehensive. We are speculating at this at the time being.

You know, nobody slept for several days and certainly not last night. You know, we're all disheveled. We're trying to understand what's going on. I have to tell you how we see it from the Syrian side. And, you know, we've been on the phone the whole time with our family, our friends and other, you know, people who are involved in this. We've always had this opposition. This opposition has been accepted. We are not necessarily, it's not for everybody. It's not everybody's cup of tea.

But this is what we have at the moment. These are the people who have gotten recognition from the international community and who know what the steps that we need to take are. We have a group, and I'm going to have to disagree a little bit with Nick here. It is not the sectarian -- the sectarian violence or the sectarian mentality did not come exclusively from rebels, but mostly from the Assad regime and its backers, specifically Iran.

But the point I wanted to make right now is that while the leader is absolutely an Islamist, he doesn't hide it. A lot of the young people who we have seen throughout the week in Aleppo and Hama and Homs and now in Damascus were the young men, the teenagers who were bussed out and forcibly displaced from Aleppo, from Hama, from Homs, 2014, 2016. You were there, Becky. You've talked about this. And Ghouta, 2018.

These people, these young men in particular, have grown up, have been away from their country for eight years, some six years, and have always wanted to come back. So that brings me back to what comes next. What comes next is that

Jolani himself has said that he would like people -- he would like to invite all the Syrians who have emigrated, who have sought refuge, and even the expats to come back to Syria so we build together.

I think because of the last 13 years, they know, the people at the head of the group now, that Syrians will not take such nonsense any longer after the 13 years of hell we've had. And I think they understand that Syria is not Afghanistan, it is not Iran, and we are too mixed for that.

The fact that we are all supportive so far, even people who are secular to the bone, like myself, and like many of my colleagues, I think we have all agreed that for the time being, let's see what comes. If then the next steps are not going to be the constitution and the elections, I think a lot of people will have something to say about it. But you know what? It's only been a few hours.

I think we have to try to give them the benefit of the doubt and to take them at their word when they invite us all to come back to Syria and to participate. I mean, people are already making plans, Becky, and probably we will see each other there, hopefully in Damascus.

ANDERSON: Understood. Absolutely. I do hope so.

It's good to have you, Rime.

ALLAF: Yes.

ANDERSON: And Nick, thank you. And you and I have been talking over the past couple of hours. We will have you back on, of course, Nick Paton Walsh, and you can read Nick's excellent analysis online entitled, "Two Wars Changed Syria's Fortune." What comes next is impossible to know. That is CNN.com and on your CNN app.

Good to have you both. There is a lot more to come. We are going to talk to an expert about some possible geopolitical ramifications of the still unfolding situation in Syria.

So much to discuss. Monumental times. Era-defining stuff in Syria today. And more after this.

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ANDERSON: Well, an update on the breaking news out of Syria for you. Syrian state TV interrupted regular programming this morning to declare victory for the Syrian revolution. Rebel troops now searching for President Bashar al-Assad after declaring that they have liberated the capital of Damascus.

Well, the White House says President Biden is closely monitoring events in Syria. National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan said the U.S. is, quote, "not going to dive into the Syrian civil war."

Meanwhile, President-elect Donald Trump posted this on social media. "The United States should have nothing to do with it. This is not our flight. Let it play out. Do not get involved!"

In a later post, he wrote, quote, "Assad is gone. He has fled his country and that his protector Russia was not interested in protecting him any longer."

Well, the United States has around 900 troops in Syria. CNN-Pentagon correspondent Oren Liebermann with the very latest.

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OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: The U.S. is watching what's happening in Syria with a very close eye and the breathtaking speed at which developments are unfolding there.

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It was on Saturday morning that a number of U.S. officials told my colleagues at CNN that the Assad regime could potentially fall within a matter of days. And now it seems like that timeline may have been far too long just because of how quickly the rebels have made advances there.

Now, the U.S. position is very simple. It is not going to get involved in a civil war, a war between the Assad regime on one side and a group of rebels led by a U.S.-designated terror organization on the other side. But there are some 900 troops in a different part of Syria, and obviously what happens to the overall country is of profound interest and national security implications to the United States. And that's why they are watching so closely. The U.S. has and has had two missions, and those very much remain the same.

First, protect its own forces. And second, the reason U.S. forces are there to begin with is to prevent the resurgence of ISIS. And that remains the mission. Here is National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan speaking at the Reagan National Defense Forum.

JAKE SULLIVAN, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Well, it's important to start by observing why this is happening. And it's really happening for two reasons. First, Assad has been brutal and repressive to his own people and totally intransigent in terms of actually trying to provide a better life or better future for the people of Syria. And so the people of Syria are fed up.

Second, Assad's backers, Iran, Russia, and Hezbollah, have all been weakened and distracted. And so he has not had the support from those three actors that he expected to be able to count on and has been left basically naked. His forces are hollowed out. LIEBERMANN: It is Sullivan's latter point that effectively set the stage for all of this happening. Russia has propped up the Assad regime for more than a decade. They're distracted, and their forces are diverted from everything happening in Ukraine. Iran's main proxy there, Hezbollah, in neighboring Lebanon, has had its own issues as it's been decimated by Israeli strikes.

And that left Assad vulnerable, and that is the situation that the rebels took advantage of. That means a war-torn country is in an even more chaotic, unstable state, and that's what the U.S. is watching very closely as it makes sure its own forces are safe there. As of the last check, there has been no forced posture change to U.S. forces in Syria, but obviously this is a rapidly changing situation and one the U.S. will very much keep an eye on.

Oren Liebermann, CNN, in Simi Valley.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: Well, Natasha Lindstaedt is a Professor of Government at the University of Essex. She joins us now from Colchester in England, and I'm not sure if you could hear, but we were just sharing a report filed by Oren Liebermann, who's our Pentagon correspondent, about, you know, how this is being perceived by the U.S. and how the U.S. is gaming this out.

Look, there will be countries not just in this region where I am of the Gulf and the wider Middle East looking at this and working out, you know, what happens next, because, of course, what goes on in Syria doesn't stay in Syria. It has implications for the wider region and, indeed, on the sort of spillover of refugees and those displaced from Syria into, for example, a country like the U.K. I'm reading social media posts from Syrians in the U.K. who are thanking those who've looked after them over the years but want to go home. And there will be a push for so many Syrians now displaced from their homes and their country to move back.

Natasha, as you look at what is going on, what's your assessment?

NATASHA LINDSTAEDT, PROFESSOR OF GOVERNMENT, UNIVERSITY OF ESSEX: I just want to first start by saying this is just monumentous. I could not have predicted how quickly things would have changed. So this is a really incredible development, and I'm sure that Syrians are rejoicing.

They did not like living under Assad, and with 7 million Syrians that had fled, I'm assuming that many are going to want to come back.

But we're seeing a huge shift, of course, and as the report already mentioned, this is a big blow for Russia. It's a big blow for Russia as it has been the main benefactor holding up Assad, but Russia is way too distracted, of course, in its conflict in Ukraine. It's a big blow to Iran, which has already shown all kinds of signs of weakness. Israel was able to assassinate Hamas leader Haniyeh on its own soil. Its retaliation wasn't very robust. It's not going to be able to help support Assad in the way that it had been. So those two forces have been weakened, and we see that Turkey will

see this as an opportunity. Turkey, of course, has hosted the vast majority of the Syrian refugees, and it will see this as a chance to exert more influence in Syria.

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And as far as the U.S. goes, this is also an opportunity which I think the U.S. is watching very closely because things can go in so many different directions, and of course it wants to keep its troops safe, but it also wants to prevent the reemergence of either the Islamic State or some group like that, some sort of jihadist organization. that could take advantage of this political and military vacuum or period of uncertainty and then pose a greater threat. So there's a lot of moving parts at the moment, which the U.S. is, I'm sure, closely monitoring.

ANDERSON: The so-called guarantor countries of the Astana crisis, which was the process by which the international community was helping, was trying to help Syria find a political solution. These countries met in Doha just this weekend, Russia, Turkey, Iran, to discuss the latest developments on Syria. As you rightly point out, there is a sense of abandonment by a very depleted Iran, an abandonment of the Assad regime, an abandonment by the Russians of that very same regime, and a Turkey who feels somewhat emboldened, influential, will seek likely further influence in the country going forward.

What does that political solution then look like today? We have the leader of a rebel group in charge, it seems, in terms of what at least in principle will be the early days of a transition, a group that is designated by the U.S. and others as a terror group. What do you make of what happens in the days to come? It certainly feels to me as if a political solution of the sort of U.N. Resolution 2254 ilk of nine years ago is really very redundant at this point.

LINDSTAEDT: It's so hard to predict what is going to happen. You have this organization, Tahrir al-Sham, which is in essence in control, but there's all these other opposition forces that have united with it. In these kinds of instances or situations, you could have groups jockeying for power, and that could lead to more instability.

The hope would be that they could come up with some sort of power- sharing arrangement that is as inclusive as possible, given the complex demographics in Syria, that then lures more people to come back, more Syrians to come back, and play a role in the transition, and that doesn't try to completely gut the state as what happened in the case of Iraq, which then led to subsequent state failure. I think that's one of the biggest concerns, that with all this uncertainty, that state failure could emerge where the institutions aren't able to provide the basic services, people get frustrated, and you start to see pockets of instability, lack of security, and then the rise of violent non-state groups, which could be like jihadist terrorist organizations, as I mentioned before.

So there are so many critical things that need to happen, but there needs to be, at the very least, an openness to work with others, to not focus on retribution, and to try to focus on inclusivity to move the Syrian state forward.

ANDERSON: Yeah. And to avoid problems going forward, there will need to be support from countries who have the cash to actually help what is a very beleaguered and much-destroyed Syrian economy and infrastructure. Those countries who have that cash are going to need to feel comfortable that the Islamist elements in this sort of rebel grouping are actually people they want to do business with. So look, you're right, days and weeks to come, this will emerge, and we will find out where the things stand.

Natasha, thank you for joining us. Natasha Lindstaedt is in Colchester in England.

Well, as we've been reporting, the Assad regime unleashed brutality on its own people. If Syrians weren't being killed, they were being imprisoned and separated from their families.

Right now, Syrians who have been internally displaced from their villages and cities are going back home.

And just across the border in Lebanon, crowds of Syrians who have been refugees there or moved during the civil war are gathering at the border, rejoicing, eager to get back home.

What's next for Syrians as they enter what is a new era? Saying goodbye to this phase of a brutal civil war, if that is what the future holds.

Our breaking news coverage continues after this.

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ANDERSON: Welcome back to our viewers in the United States and around the world. Wherever you are watching, you are more than welcome. I'm Becky Anderson in Abu Dhabi, where the time is just after half past two in the afternoon. This is CNN Newsroom.

It's just after half past 1:00 in the afternoon in Syria, where rebel forces say the capital of Damascus has been liberated, claiming President Bashar al-Assad has been overthrown.

In this video, you see Prime Minister Mohammad Ghazi al-Jalali being escorted by rebels in Damascus earlier. They purportedly took him to a hotel to hand over government authority.

Well, people are celebrating in the streets. Some carrying a huge rebel flag, you can see here. The rebels are actively searching for Assad, who has not been seen or heard from in days, a source tells CNN.

Rebels are questioning Syrian military officers and intelligence officials who may have knowledge about his movements. Well, H.A. Hellyer is a Senior Associate Fellow at the Royal United

Services Institute for Defense and Security Studies in London. He is in Doha today.

H.A., you will have been watching the images on screens around the world, both large and small. This is an historic, monumental moment for Syria and the wider region. The question is, if this -- you know, is a new era led by rebel groups, how organized can they be and how will or can Syrians themselves have confidence that this is indeed an era that will work for them?

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H.A. HELLYER, NON-RESIDENT SCHOLAR, CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE: So, thank you, Becky. Always a pleasure to be on the program with you. I think you ask exactly the question that everyone ought to be asking. What happens next? And how stable is the pathway forward going to be? But we need to situate this against a certain backdrop as well, right?

The idea that there was going to be any stable, sustainable solution for Syria with Bashar al-Assad, I think has been proven to absolutely not have been the case. That actually, on the contrary, he was a destabilizing figure. And this is the first step towards some sort of more positive future for the people of Syria.

Now, of course, there will be concerns about the nature of the rebel groupings, HTS and so on. But I think it's important for people to note that there are a number of different groups that joined in the fight. The coalition itself is much wider than HTS.

And then over the last few days, you've seen Syrians who are not affiliated to any group also join in the uprising against Bashar al- Assad and his regime as well. And finally, you'll also see large groups of Syrians, I think, returning to Syria as a result of the overthrow of the regime.

So the question, I think, is going to be how are these rebels going to transition into a more governing authority? I think the indications thus far, and, you know, I'm cautious in this regard, but I think thus far leave room for optimism that they are intent on trying to avoid a vacuum, a very chaotic sort of transfer. And I hope that the region and the international community more generally is also very focused on this point. They will need help. They will need assistance. And I think it's to everyone's interest regionally, but also internationally, that Syria gets back on its feet.

ANDERSON: Yeah. Where will or should that help come from for Syria going forward? And what does that help look like?

HELLYER: I frankly think that there's an argument for all of the region's powers, but also internationally, to put in as much effort into Syria to provide not only humanitarian assistance, but the rebuilding of huge portions of the country that frankly have seen very difficult years under Bashar al-Assad's rule, and of course under his father's rule. This is a family enterprise of many decades. And I think that if the international community takes this seriously, then they can see different arguments.

There's a security argument. There's also a migration argument. You know, the subject of Syrian refugees in Turkey has been coming up again and again in recent years.

Well, if you stabilize Syria and you make Syria safe and sustainable, then people will want to go home. Refugees don't want to leave their homes. Refugees don't want to be a burden in someone else's country. Refugees want to be able to return home.

And I think that as long as we recognize that this is the reality on the ground, and we try to help Syrians actually create a more sustainable governing structure going forward, then it works for all of our interests in Europe, in the Arab world, more internationally.

ANDERSON: How does what is going on in Syria today fit into a wider story of a changing architecture across the Middle East, the sort of shifting of tectonic plates? And where does this take this region? And I say this region. You're in Doha. I am in the Abu Dhabi in the Gulf. And I'm talking about this wider region. Where does it take us going forward?

HELLYER: I think that's an excellent question. And I just want to say that primarily this is a Syrian story. This is about the people of Syria. They have made certain choices. This is not -- and I'm not suggesting that you were making this point, but just to make it very clear to everybody watching, this is about the people of Syria making a change. It's not about external actors making the change for them.

Having said that, of course, there will be external actors that will be affected greatly by this. And I think that what you've seen over the past week but also at different points over the past year is that the, quote-unquote, "axis of resistance" hasn't proven to be able to live up to its rhetoric and its claims. This is a big blow, I think, in terms of Iran's power in the region. It will be a blow to Hezbollah as well because, of course, Syria was the way in which many supply chains went through in order to get to Hezbollah.

[05:40:20]

But frankly, I think that people will be dreaming if today they think they can predict the consequences of this change in administration in Damascus, regionally speaking in particular.

ANDERSON: Sure.

HELLYER: What we -- what we hope to see is something more sustainable, something that has a better economy but also a better future for the people of Syria. The people of Syria, I think you've seen on the screens, on social media, across the country, many people incredibly overjoyed, that relatives, that political prisoners that they're being let out of the jails and the prisons.

ANDERSON: Understood. HELLYER: I saw stories of -- I saw one person, you know, released today on social media who had been in prison under Hafez al-Assad and didn't actually know about Bashar.

So there are good reasons to be hopeful and positive and I think that there are good reasons to be cautious and not let this sort of run away, to get in as quickly as possible, to help, to provide assistance and to be able to help create that future in partnership with the people of Syria.

ANDERSON: It's good to have you, H.A. Thank you, H.A. Hellyer. In Doha for you today where there are many regional sort of stakeholders gathered for an event there and that is where we will get back to right after this. Stay with us.

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ANDERSON: An update now on the breaking news out of Syria. Rebel troops celebrating and searching for President Bashar al-Assad after declaring on state TV that they have liberated the capital Damascus.

[05:45:11]

Turkey's Foreign Minister says Assad is probably outside Syria but would not comment any further. There are unanswered questions about what this will mean.

For Syrian refugees, as you see on this map, there are millions displaced internally and in neighboring countries. Meanwhile, the United Nations envoy is calling for all parties to restore calm and avoid further bloodshed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEIR PEDERSEN, U.N. ENVOY FOR SYRIA: The need for an orderly political transition has never been more urgent. Starting with the urgent formation of inclusive and credible transitional arrangements in Syria. For this, we need an urgent, serious process, fundamentally different from what has gone on before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Geir Pedersen speaking there, the U.N. envoy for Syria. Well, CNN Chief International Anchor Christiane Amanpour joins us now from that event in Doha where Geir was speaking yesterday. And you've just been in a press conference with the Turkish Foreign Minister. What did he tell you, Christiane?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, he told the assembled press there, quote, overnight Syria has changed hands. There is a new Syria. We woke up to a new Syria.

And while they're not taking a victory lap officially, you can clearly see that what's happening is in line with what Turkey wants to happen. The sort of word of the day from whether it's Qatar or Syria or wherever it is, is blame Assad. It's all Assad's fault. He had the opportunity, at least since 2016, when the war in Syria went quiet to achieve national unity and to really work towards keeping the country in a positive and forward moving direction. And according to the Turkish government, he absolutely failed.

They said that when they got sort of an inkling, and even over the past, you know, period, the Turkish president had tried to reach out to Assad and they had no response whatsoever. They claimed that they saw Syria, quote, unquote, and the regime "decaying and collapsing."

They said that even without -- practically without a bullet fired, this rebel group led by al-Jolani took Aleppo and then all the other cities and now finally Damascus.

But the Turks are talking, you know, in terms of what the international community would, I think, you know, like to hear. And that is they want a government of national unity. They want a proper transition. They want territorial integrity for Syria. And they want, as I said, you know, diversity and national unity, in other words, protect the minorities as well.

And in that regard, presumably they're speaking to the sizable but still minority Alawite population who over the decades have supported and been the power base of the Assad family. So I don't know how many decades people are saying, you know, five decades since the Assad family has been in charge of Syria and now that has collapsed.

And again, as I said, you know, they're kind of blaming him. I got a chance to sort of yell at, well, to ask a question of the Foreign Minister, and it was about Assad's whereabouts. Here's how that went down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: (OFF MIC) where Assad is?

HAKAN FIDAN, MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS OF TURKIYE: Thank you, Your Excellency.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (OFF MIC) your question.

FIDAN: No, I cannot say for sure.

AMANPOUR: (OFF MIC).

FIDAN: No, I cannot comment on that. I mean, I think he's somewhere, but I cannot comment on that. Probably outside of Syria.

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AMANPOUR: What he said also, basically saying that he believed Assad was probably out of the country. We also heard from another conference in the region in Bahrain that a senior UAE official, when asked if he was in the UAE, said he's on his own. He didn't deny that he's in the UAE, but he did not say that he would be there as the protege of the UAE government. So again, we don't quite know where he is. What we understand from the Turkish government and the Foreign

Minister is that we know that last night there was a big, long, several hours-long meeting between the Turkish Foreign Minister, the Iranian Foreign Minister, the Russian, and others, clearly the Qatar Prime Minister as well, on how to take this forward, the Saudi Foreign Minister as well.

And I think what they all want to do is, what they're saying is that they want to be in some kind of conversation in order to make sure that this proceeds in the most positive way possible. They said that they've also been in touch with U.S. officials.

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Now, you know, let's not forget that this took everybody by surprise, including the United States. Just days ago, or even hours ago, the U.S. and others were saying, Bashar has won this war. And by the way, let's try to get him away from Iran, and let's try with Bashar to have a new reality in the wake of what's happening between Israel and Lebanon, Hezbollah, Israel, and Iran, et cetera, to try to create a new reality in this region.

So the U.S. was most definitely counting on Bashar Assad being still in place, trying to wean him away and wean him off Iran. As for Iran, as I talked to you last time, the Foreign n Minister was leaving here early. He was called back to Tehran for meeting on this -- on this situation, because don't forget, Iran, and to an extent Russia, have really invested in Bashar Assad for the last 13 years. It was Iran with its Hezbollah foot soldiers and its own Revolutionary Guard Corps who propped up Bashar Assad from the beginning of the Arab Spring when it raised its head here. And when young people simply wanted reform, they weren't even calling for Assad to leave in the early months of 2011. They just wanted reform, and the Assad brutal crackdown on the people here is what launched that civil war.

He -- the Turkish Foreign Minister was very clear and sent a very clear message to the United States that their Kurdish allies in this country would not be tolerated, that if any Kurdish factions inside Syria were connected to the PKK, which the Turks consider terrorists, then they would be not working with them and they would not tolerate them having a role in the future.

So that's going to raise an interesting issue with the United States, and it also raises the question of what Turkey will do to the Kurdish minority who are here in Syria.

One last thing, the Turkish Foreign Minister said, and this also allows now for all those millions of Syrian refugees who have taken refuge inside Turkey and of course in refugee camps still in neighboring countries like Jordan and elsewhere to allow them to come home. So there's a big agenda, there's a big table being laid. We will see how it all falls out in the next few weeks, obviously, and certainly the next days.

Becky. ANDERSON: I think when you talk to people around this region, this

table has been being laid for some time. We are seeing the evidence of that playing out in front of our eyes.

So Christiane, thank you. Christiane Amanpour is in Doha today.

In the coming hours, Notre Dame will hold its first public mass since a fire destroyed much of the cathedral five years ago. But before mass can be held, the altar must be consecrated with a special ceremony and special rites.

Well, this is video of that ceremony taken just a short time ago. The Archbishop of Paris was joined at the service by dozens of priests from across the French capital and more than 100 bishops from around the world.

Now, this consecration comes a day after a lavish reopening ceremony for the centuries-old Gothic cathedral attended by dozens of world leaders and dignitaries.

Well, CNN Senior International Correspondent Melissa Bell joins us now from Paris with more.

Melissa, just remind us what happened to Notre Dame and when and why this is such a big moment for Paris.

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was just over five years ago that April 2019, you'll remember the flames, were seen first on social media and then very quickly on our cameras and the cameras of the world tearing through the roof of Notre Dame. Very quickly, Emmanuel Macron had said that it would be rebuilt within five years. And so with just a few months delay, it was.

First, we got our first glimpse last Friday with that last construction site visit of the French President. And last night, of course, that very beautiful ceremony attended 50 heads of state -- by over 50 heads of state.

Now, that was the civilian part of the opening, if you like. What's happening now in these pictures you're seeing from inside Notre Dame is the preparation, the consecration of the cathedral in order that that first mass can be held. We've just watched the Archbishop of Paris putting the oil on the altar. The incense is now being spread around the cathedral. Shortly, the mass itself will begin.

And this, Becky, we understand, is to be one of three masses every day for the next six months that will be held. So great, do they believe, the appetite of Catholics will be to come to Paris to worship again in this cathedral now finally open.

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But beyond that and what it represents to the world's Catholics, you mentioned the many bishops and archbishops who gathered here for this extraordinary ceremony. A letter was read yesterday during that opening ceremony from the Pope. Beyond what it means to the faithful themselves, there is, of course, what Notre Dame means to Parisians, to the French, to the world. And I think we really measured that not just in the presence of those heads of state, including President- elect Donald Trump, President Zelenskyy of Ukraine yesterday, but also in the donations. You know, this is a reconstruction, Becky, that cost more than $740 million.

It was $800 million, more than $800 million that were raised, $800 million that were raised from 340,000 donors in 150 different countries. I think that speaks to what this cathedral represents well beyond what it means to the faithful who will shortly be able to take part to worship in that first mass.

Five years of reconstruction and what they say, and I saw it for myself, I was able to get in last week very briefly to see, this is a cathedral really restored to beyond what it was five years ago, much closer to the glory of when it was last restored, I hear, in the 19th century, Becky.

ANDERSON: To what it would have been, yeah, absolutely. Melissa, it's always good to have you. Thank you very much indeed. Melissa Bell is in. Thank you.

Well, that wraps this hour of CNN Newsroom. I'm Becky Anderson. Thank you for joining us. Do stay with us, though. CNN This Morning is up next after this very quick break. Stay with us.

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