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CNN International: Rebel Leader: Syria Victory is for the "Islamic Nation"; Biden on Syria: "Moment of Risk" and "Historic Opportunity"; Rebel Fighters Storm Notorious Prison, Release Detainees; Israeli Military Moves into Buffer Zone with Syria; Rebels End Decades of Brutal Assad Regime Rule in Syria; Trump Details Aggressive Agenda on Migrants in the U.S. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired December 09, 2024 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST: Hello and welcome to our viewers around the world. I'm Becky Anderson in Abu Dhabi, and this is CNN Newsroom. Just ahead as Syrian rebels promise a new future for their country, celebrations at home and reaction now around the world to the collapse of the Assad regime.

President Biden declares the moment an historic opportunity, but also underscores the risk and uncertainty. And Donald Trump sits down for his first TV interview since winning the election here. What he has to say about immigration and retribution against his political opponents.

Reaction now flowing in as the UN gets ready for an emergency meeting on Syria. The question many people are asking is, what's next for the country? Well, Syrians and of course, the world still reacting to the stunning fall of Syria's Assad regime, the long and brutal rule of Bashar Al Assad ending after rebels swept into the capital of Damascus on Sunday.

Well, that is the sound of celebration as the rebels declare Syria is free from its former dictator after 13 years of civil war. Russian state media and an official source say that Assad, a key ally of Vladimir Putin fled to Moscow with his family, where they have been granted asylum.

Well, these images were inconceivable just a few days ago. You are looking at what we are told are people looting Former President Bashar Al Assad's official office in Damascus, walking off with whatever they can carry. My colleague, CNN's Chief International Correspondent Clarissa Ward, reporting from the streets of Damascus as Syrians take in their new reality.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You can see there are a lot of people out on the streets today. It's not scenes of celebration, it's not scenes of looting like we are seeing today. Now people are trying to make sure that they have stocked up on all the supplies that they might need.

Take a look at this line here. We're outside of bakery. These people say they've been waiting more than half an hour, or some of them, they're waiting for bread. We've seen lines like this around the city. People are lining up for cash. They're lining up for gas. They are trying to make sure that they have enough food to ride out this transitional period where nobody really knows what's going to happen.

You can see behind me, at the end of the road there, that is the central bank of Syria. Yesterday, there was extensive moving. There a lot of people in the city started to feel a little bit concerned that this was going to be a chaotic period. Then more rebels arrived in the capital.

The looting appears to have stopped. It does seem very calm on the streets. Of course, there are many people who are elated the Bashar Al Assad is finally gone. But there is also the day today that people need to focus on to ensure that they have enough bread, enough gas, enough cash, enough supplies to get them through this tenuous transitional period. Clarissa Ward, CNN, Damascus.

ANDERSON: Well, CNN's Paula Hancocks joins me now. I mean, you could, you know, forgive so many Syrians for continuing the celebration sort of long into the night and into the morning. But 24 hours on, it is remarkable, a sense of calm in Damascus, but also a sense of uncertainty about what is to come.

And the question is whether the rebels, at this point, can convert what is this extraordinary moment into a new and fairer society, Paula?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's the key question, and it is the answer that nobody knows at this point. It's the question that the experts are asking that people on the street in Syria are asking as well, because what you've got here is an extremely complex situation.

You're not talking about rebel group. You're talking about rebel groups. You have a myriad of different anti Assad entities that were part of this dramatic and remarkable takeover of Syria. So, the fact is, who is in control now?

[08:05:00]

We know that HTS is considered the vanguard. It's considered the biggest group, but the question is whether or not they can consolidate the other groups that are with them. We heard from John Kirby from the National Security Council, and he spoke to CNN. And John Berman, our anchor, said to him, who is running Syria?

And he said, it's an open question. He said they are trying to figure out that themselves at this point. So that's where we are. He also pointed out that the Biden Administration believe that they're saying the right things, that they're saying, that they are going to be protecting the different minorities.

You know that you have Christians, Alawites, Sunnis, Shia, Druze. And they're saying the right things, but they simply don't know at this point whether the deeds are going to match those words.

ANDERSON: The speed of this sort of downfall, as it were, this past week, I think, shocked everybody, but I think it would be naive to believe that behind the scenes and back channeling wasn't going on that you know, countries around the world who have a sort of stake in the, you know, the wider security of Syria going forward, not just the Syrians, but countries around the region and beyond.

You know, weren't aware that there was something a fort, Israel being one of those. Israel says it struck weapons systems in Syria to prevent them from falling into the hands of extremists. And let's be quite clear, some of these groups, including HTS have -- are extremist groups have been affiliated with extremist groups in the past.

HTS itself has a history associated with ISIS and Al-Qaeda. So how might the balance of power look in the Middle East going forward? There is a real change in the architecture here. This story of Syria is not just a story of Syria and Syrians extremely important that we consider them in the first instance. But there is a wider story here as well.

HANCOCKS: Absolutely. I mean, what happens in Syria does not stay in Syria. You look at the neighborhood, and Israel is a good example. There was no love lost between the Israeli governments and Assad. They knew that weapons were flowing from Iran through Syria to Lebanon and to Hezbollah.

So, there was no love lost there. But the fact is, they had a fairly secure border, which they now no longer have. So, we have seen in that buffer zone between Israel and Syria. Israeli troops are now there. This is effectively Syrian territory. They are stationing themselves there because the Syrian regime military left, and they knew that if there is a vacuum there, then there could be something far worse that would be right on their border.

You see Turkey, for example, Turkey has been empowered by what has happened, because, as we understand it, Turkey had a fair amount of influence in what happened, a fair amount of support to some of these groups. And there are some of these groups that came through that America supports as well.

So, there is definitely a lot of maneuvering behind the scenes that there's one obvious loser, of course, and that's Iran. This is not what Iran wanted. But for many of the other countries there, they certainly would have been aware of something happening. They may have been integral into that happening.

But of course, they're watching quite carefully and with some trepidation now, as well as to what the next Syria does look like.

ANDERSON: And what that looks like will have an influence on the wider region and beyond. Paula, it's good to have you. Thank you. Paula Hancocks in Abu Dhabi with me. Well, the Kremlin not offering up many details on the whereabouts of the Former Syrian President Bashar Al Assad, after the ousted president was granted asylum in Russia on Sunday.

A Kremlin spokesperson refused to comment publicly on Russia's decision to grant that to Assad and his family, adding that there is no planned face to face meetings between Assad and the Russian President on Putin's official schedule. That was how it was described.

There was a sign of the changing times as the opposition flag was hoisted above the embassy though in Moscow today. CNN's Fred Pleitgen joining us from Moscow with more, and it is good to have you there today. What do we know about President Assad and his family going to Russia? It sounds to me as if we have got a problem with communications. Can you hear me, Fred? I think let's move on.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, there, Becky, and I'm actually outside that very embassy, and you're absolutely right.

[08:10:00]

The Syrian opposition flag was hoisted here early this morning, by outside here of the embassy. We were here last night. There was actually no flag. I can hear you. Yes.

ANDERSON: Significant, lag on our communications with Fred. Let's see if we can reconnect with Fred. Fred, I'll return to you. I'm going to move on and see whether we can re-establish comms. Meantime U.S. President Joe Biden praising the fall of the Assad regime in Syria, but also cautioning about what comes next.

Mr. Biden said the U.S. is working to ensure that Islamic fundamentalists like ISIS do not take advantage of the power vacuum in Syria. The U.S. itself conducted a series of strikes on ISIS targets inside Syria over the weekend, hitting 75 targets. It is worth noting again that the HTS rebel group that took the capital from Assad over the weekend is designated by the U.S. as a terror organization and does have ties to ISIS.

Well, the U.S. military is assessing how much damage it did to ISIS in Syria with those strikes over the weekend. Just minutes ago, my colleague, John Berman, asked one of Biden's top national security advisors about how effective the U.S. strikes were. Have a listen.

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JOHN KIRBY, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COMMUNICATIONS ADVISER: Pentagon is doing what they call a battle damage assessment of that, John, we don't have a firm indication of the assessment of each and every one of those strikes. They do believe, preliminarily, that they were very, very successful in hitting legitimate ISIS targets and further degrading their capabilities.

We have kept the pressure up on ISIS now for the entire four years of this administration, through these kinds of strikes. We'll continue to do that as we see valid threats. So, I'm certainly not going to rule anything off the table in terms of additional strikes on ISIS.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Right. Let's get you to the White House -- for the very latest. Joining us now is CNN's Arlette Saenz. That was John Kirby just speaking to our colleague, John Berman just moments ago. Arlette, the story here is really you know, the devil is in the detail, right?

Be careful what you wish for the U.S. you know no love lost between the U.S. Administration, the Biden Administration and the Assad regime. Regime, of course, it was closely connected to Vladimir Putin and Iran, but it does seem unlikely the U.S. will have close relations with the rebels who have now taken over. What is the perspective there in Washington?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Becky, President Biden really cast this as an opportunity for the Syrian people, as the country is now rid of the crushing regime of Bashar Al Assad. But at the same time, the president has argued that there are many risks and uncertainties in this situation.

And one thing for the U.S. going forward is they'll have to figure out how exactly to navigate these rebel groups, but also who eventually takes control of Syria that is still a big question about what happens next in that country, who comes to the forefront to lead the Syrian people?

President Biden said that ultimately that is a decision for the Syrian people themselves to make. But perhaps what complicates a lot of this, as you were talking about, is one of the main rebel groups, HTS has been deemed a terror organization by the United States.

And senior U.S. officials told reporters yesterday that they still believe that significant portions of HTS have ties to ISIS. They do not want to see ISIS reconstitute in any way, or any significant way, in Syria or other areas in the region. So, for the Biden Administration, they'll have to figure out who they're working with and how they will work with them going forward.

Just earlier this morning, National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan said that the U.S. is prepared to work with any groups in Syria, groups that are committed to sovereignty, to democratic institutions, and so that is something that the U.S. will have to assess going forward.

Now, President Biden, when he delivered remarks here at the White House yesterday, he did voice some cautious optimism. He said that some of the words that they're hearing from the rebel groups are the right ones, but what they will be judging is what their actions will be like going forward.

So, while they're celebrating the departure, the toppling of the Assad regime, there are still many questions for the U.S. going forward about what the new Syrian government might look like. And of course, complicating all of this is that Biden only has six weeks left in office, President-elect Trump stands to inherit the situation in Syria.

You'll remember as this was all developing and unfolding over the past week, as the rebel forces started to take more control. Trump said the U.S. needed to stay out of it. So far, he's really given very little clues, really none about what he thinks the future of Syria should be.

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ANDERSON: Yeah, very specifically said, this is not our fight. We shouldn't get involved. Arlette, it's good to have you. Thank you very much indeed. Well, the fall of the Syrian regime has allowed some of the prisoners in Syria to be freed. However, the search is on for others who could still be locked up inside the Syrian prison, known for its absolutely inhumane conditions. More on that after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: -- we were reporting just a couple of minutes ago, the Kremlin not offering up many details on the whereabouts the Former Syrian President Bashar Al Assad, after the ousted president was granted asylum in Russia on Sunday. CNN's joins us from Moscow with more.

Before we talk about what we know about Assad's whereabouts at this point and what is full means for Russia, as I understand it, you outside the embassy, I believe it in Moscow, where there is today, a new flag raised above the building.

PLEITGEN: There certainly is, Becky. And you can see where we pan up here, you can see that since the early morning hours of today, the flag of the Syrian opposition has been hoisted here at the Syrian Embassy in Moscow. I was actually here late last night, Becky, and there was no flag outside.

So, the flag of the Syrian Arab Republic under Bashar Al Assad was actually taken down last night. The plaque of the Syrian Arab Republic was also taken down as well. And now, since the morning hours of today, the flag of the Syrian opposition has been hoisted here. And there were actually a lot of Syrians who came out here and voiced their support for the change that is going on in Syria.

It was actually quite interesting for us to see that even Syrians here in Russia, a lot of them wanted this sort of change to take place. The other thing that we also found out from folks here on the ground is that the embassy still appears to be functioning, even though, obviously this transition is taking place.

But you're also absolutely right, the Kremlin not offering up very much in the way of clues as to where Bashar Al Assad might be here in Russia in Moscow. We knew from late last night that the Russians confirmed that he had landed here in Moscow along with members of his family and that Bashar Al Assad and members of his family were granted asylum on humanitarian grounds as the Russian put it.

One of the things that the spokesman for the Kremlin, Dmitry Peskov, said earlier today in a conference call with journalists is he said that it was Vladimir Putin himself who signed off on all this, who made the decision to allow Bashar Al Assad to come here. The Russians also acknowledging that they were taken by surprise at how quickly the regime collapsed.

How quickly the rebels were able to get to, of course, a lot of Syrian cities, but then also Damascus as well. And if you recall yesterday, Becky, there was a day of a lot of uncertainty, where it was really unclear about the whereabouts of Bashar Al Assad.

[08:20:00]

And it was actually the Russians themselves who first confirmed in the afternoon hours of yesterday that he had indeed left Syria, Becky.

ANDERSON: So, what does this mean for Russia? Russia's military assets, which are extensive in Syria.

PLEITGEN: Yeah.

ANDERSON: And its relations with the country going forward. It's, you know, it was allied with the regime, of course, of Bashar Al Assad. Let's just explain why, and what the strategic sort of motivation for that was?

PLEITGEN: Yeah, well, first of all, I think right now for the Russians, everything about all of this is uncertain. They have absolutely no idea what's going to happen to their military assets, whether or not they're going to be able to stay in Syria. In fact, the spokesman for the Kremlin also said that, that is something that the next weeks and months are going to show that the Russians, first of all, need to find out who is going to be in power in Syria.

And of course, the Russians were more than allies for Bashar Al Assad. They were the main backers, and really the main ones responsible for keeping Bashar Al Assad in power, along with the Iranians as well. And if you look back, for instance, to 2015 where things were really going badly for the Assad regime in the Syrian civil war.

It was the Russians who stepped in, established themselves at their air base near Latakia, in a place called Miami, and their Air Force started being the Air Force for the advances of the Assad regime forces and its allied forces as well, and played a huge role on the ground in Syria, the Russians and also taking on other roles as well.

They have a big naval base in Tartus. Just last week, they conducted a major naval exercise with their ship sailing from there. And for the Russians, this was obviously something that made them a major player in Syria, but also made them a major player in the Middle East as well, of course, very much allied with Iran.

But then also, of course, very big as far as relations with Turkey and other countries are concerned as well. And there's one other thing that I think is also really important to point out Becky, that especially this air base that they have near Latakia, it gives Russia the possibility to project power, not just into the Middle East, but also all the way into western Africa, where, of course, now by and by, there are more and more countries that are allying themselves with the Russians as well, Becky.

ANDERSON: Good to have you, Fred. Thank you very much indeed. Fred is in Moscow for you folks. Amid celebrations over the fall of the Assad regime, today, a desperate hunt for missing Syrians continues. A day after rebel fighters stormed the notorious Saydnaya Prison in Damascus, dubbed a human slaughterhouse by Amnesty International. They released detainees there. The rescue group known as the White Helmet so says it deployed five specialized teams to search for secret rooms that might be holding more prisoners. These videos from Sunday are remarkable. They show hundreds of men shuffling out of the prison known for its inhumane conditions.

Rebels seen breaking down walls with sledge hammers after finding that cells that appeared to be hidden. We're joined now by Rime Allaf. She's a Syrian Writer and Journalist, and you and I spoke 24 hours ago, and it was an emotional time for you at that point, I don't think you've been up for very long, and if you've had any sleep since we last spoke.

Let's talk about the search for these detainees. What do we know about what's going on at this military prison known for its inhumane conditions. Just remind us how it was used, who was held there by the regime, and what we know about what's going on today.

RIME ALLAF, SYRIAN WRITER & JOURNALIST: Thank you, Becky. In fact, I had not slept when we had spoken yesterday, since I woke up on Saturday morning. Now I have slept and have been able to look a little bit, you know, with a calmer outlook on what's happening.

Saydnaya is a hell on earth that we, the people who have been in opposition for at least two decades, have been speaking about in every conference, with every official with every paper I have written. We would mention Saydnaya and the other jails as one of the points of pressure which should be used against Assad, because that was the one thing that he could do liberate the detainees at no cost whatsoever to him politically on the contrary, it would have given him some bonus points.

The people who are in Saydnaya, in particular are further most part, political detainees, prisoners of conscience, people who you don't know who they bothered. And it didn't necessarily need to be at the top of the regime. It could be an official, it could be an army person, it could be an intelligence person, who did not like what was said.

[08:25:00]

Tal al-Mallohi, a young woman who was detained in 2009 for writing a blog about freedom, amongst other things, is one of the people who was let out. She's now a young woman. You mentioned, Becky that men were selling out, not just men, women and children who were born in prison, meaning these women were raped by their guards.

These are people we've been talking about figures and rightly said amnesty. So, I think there's not much that I can say, but I would say to the U.S. and to the E.U. and to the U.K., you are all worried rightly about the change in governance. You're worried about HTS and we'll get to that.

But instead of bombing the, you know, presumed ISIS sites, why don't you offer help to bring out these prisoners? We have seen the White Helmets digging again with very basic tools, because these people have been left to die. There's a lot we have to talk about. And if I may just mention one thing that your correspondent said about the Syrian opposition flag.

It is not the Syrian opposition flag. It is the Syrian independent flag. And I believe a lot of your listeners might not know, and your audience, this was the flag that was flown on Syria in 1946 when we got our independence from France, and we've always referred to it as such, the Syrian independence flag.

ANDERSON: We stand corrected, and thank you for that. Look, there are many displaced Syrians in Turkey. Other countries are going to want to head back to their country. There is clearly an enormous amount of work now to do. So, what is your message to those heading home at this point?

And also, to countries who you have suggested should offer a hand of support, rather than sort of sitting back and voicing their concerns about what happens next. What is your very specific message at this point?

ALLAF: The big priority right now is to get security under control. And the Syrians are doing that. This is why they have announced that there would be occur to every day in Damascus, at least from 05:00 p.m. until 05:00 a.m. because, as you know, Becky, after 13 years, there are so many weapons around, and there are so many regime and security people who just, you know, melted into the crowds, who dissipated that needs to be taken care of.

And I believe that all Syrians agree on that wherever you stand. We need to get the situation the security under control. The second important thing is that Syrians were suffering for the last few years under the Assad regime, for all the riches that we saw in the palaces of Bashar Assad and Maher Assad and Rami Makhlouf, who just three days ago was offering 50 billion Syrian pounds, which is about $4 million to the militias fighting the so-called terrorists.

All these people have been taking basically what was supposed to be given to the Syrian people. Syrian people are struggling. Thank God, we now have a little bit more electricity. This is where we need help, I would say, from my perspective, to get the basic services back in control.

You mentioned Becky, all the people coming back to Syria. They've been saying it for years, let us come back to our country. That is what we want. They couldn't. Now they can. You saw, probably this traffic jam, not just from Lebanon and Masna to Syria, but also from Turkey.

The cars, you know, if you took a drone, and they did, you would think it was the day before Thanksgiving. Many of these people, Becky, do not have homes to come back to. So, we need, perhaps now to reconsider the whole situation when there's a proper government to look at the sanctions that were imposed on Syria.

This is still early days, but I think this is what's necessary now to allow also Syrians -- society to help those people coming back. ANDERSON: Rime Allaf, good to have you. I very much appreciate it. We will talk again. Lot of work to do, of course, and I think understandably, a lot of concern about what happens next, but your insight and analysis is really important, and I very much appreciate your time at this point. Thank you.

Well, there's a buffer zone between the Golan Heights and Syria. It's been there for decades. After the break, we'll look at why Israel says it has sent troops and tanks into what is that neutral zone?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:30:00]

ANDERSON: Right. You watching CNN Newsroom. I'm Becky Anderson. I want to return to our top story and the Assad family, which has lost control of Syria after more than half a century of brutal dictatorship. Bashar Al Assad and his family have fled to Moscow after rebel forces toppled his regime at the weekend.

Rebels, along with civilians, stormed Assad's buildings, ransacking his official residences. And hundreds of Syrians rushed to the notorious Saydnaya Prison in Damascus, searching for their loved ones after rebel fighters released detainees there. Well, Iran's Foreign Ministry weighing in on the unfolding events in Syria on Sunday.

Iran, a key backer of Assad, of course, says it will respect Syria's sovereignty and territorial integrity, but not without some caveats.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABBAS ARAGHCHI, IRANIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Our interaction with the group that took over Syria will depend on their behavior on what policy will they adopt against the Islamic Republic of Iran? What policy will they have against the Syrian Shiites? What will be the distance between them and the Zionist regime? What will be the distance between them and the terrorist groups? And how will they behave?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: A lot of questions there. Meanwhile, the Iranian Ambassador to Syria warning that the fallout from the collapse of Assad's regime could spark a conflict involving regional countries, and that Turkey will be and that will be beyond American control. Well, there is a buffer zone between Syria and Israeli occupied Golan Heights.

And for the last five decades, the United Nations has patrolled that. And the Israeli military rarely ventured into what is a no man's land, until now. That is Jeremy Diamond looks at Israel's military buildup there.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Israeli troops have been going into the Syrian buffer zone on the other side of this border fence right here. This is the line that separates the Israeli occupied Golan Heights and Syrian territory. There is a buffer zone of about two kilometers where Israeli troops have not been positioned for more than 50 years, but now Israeli troops are inside that buffer zone.

And we're also told, according to the Israeli Defense Ministry, that Israeli troops have also captured positions beyond that buffer zone as well in Syrian held territory. You can see my camera man John, is now zooming in on a building here, where moments ago, we just saw some Israeli troops who were positioned inside that buffer zone.

This gate that is over here is where we have seen Israeli military vehicles have gone back and forth throughout the day. Yesterday was the first day that Israeli troops began going into this buffer zone, after the Israeli Prime Minister said Syrian troops left their position on the other side of that buffer zone.

[08:35:00]

According to the Prime Minister, that meant the collapse of the 1974 agreement between Israel and Syria that has held for more than 50 years. And he then sent Israeli troops to go and take over those positions, effectively positioning Israeli troops between the communities here in the Golan Heights and those newly victorious Syrian rebels.

So, as you can see, this gate is open at the moment, and we expect that Israeli troops will continue to go inside and outside of that area. Now, in addition to what we're seeing here in this buffer zone, we also know that the Israeli military has been conducting air strikes inside of Syria.

We have been hearing and seeing those jets overhead throughout the morning. And we know that the Israeli military said they are going after strategic weapons of the Syrian armed forces, going after ballistic missiles, air defense systems that the Syrian that were previously held by the Syrian regime.

So, a lot of military action is taking place here as a result of the fall of the Assad regime yesterday, which stunned the region at large, of course. And of course, in this community as well, of Majdal Shams, where we are now. We also know that there are people who have family on both sides of the border.

The people in this area consider themselves to be Syrians of the Syrian Druze community and many families here are separated by this 1974 demarcation line with families on both sides of that border.

ANDERSON: Well, that is Jeremy Diamond reporting the U.S. military, meantime, assessing how much damage it did to ISIS in Syria with its strikes over the weekend. We're joined now by Dana Stroul. She's the Former U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for the Middle East.

It's good to have you. President Biden spoke yesterday about what is unfolding in Syria and U.S. key priorities, one of them preventing resurgence of ISIS. They will be in close contact with Israel on the Golan Heights. I wonder. How do you assess the U.S. thinking at this point? Do you believe they will be using more strikes like, for example, the ones they used Sunday on ISIS? DANA STROUL, FORMER U.S. DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR THE MIDDLE EAST: I do think if the U.S. military sees a risk of ISIS resurging and reconstituting, we will see more of these strikes. So, it's important to remember that there are still 900 U.S. forces on the ground inside Syria, and they're working with a local partner, the Syrian Democratic Forces, who not only are doing counter terrorism operations.

But they're maintaining custody of more than 9000 ISIS fighters who are still in detention. If there's risks to the security of those fighters, as in they could break out of prison, or we see more ISIS activity, because they see an opportunity to expand and retake territory. The U.S. military is going to take those hits.

ANDERSON: And there are also thousands of women and children, of course, allied with those ISIS fighters in prisons in that part of the country. President Biden also mentioned being in constant communication with Syria's neighbors and U.S. allies in the region.

What's the goal here, and how much back channel and debate was had do you believe ahead of what happened on Sunday after all, these rebels did not do this alone and without backing?

STROUL: Well, I think the White House has taken great pains to make clear that it did not give a green light, has not provided support to this conglomeration of opposition, Syrian opposition, that moved so swiftly from northwest Syria and retook Damascus in a matter of a week.

But certainly, a NATO ally to the north, Turkey has a big role to play here. It's supporting both the Syrian national opposition and Hyatt real Sham, which is a U.S. designated terrorist group, but for Turkey, is seen as a local partner that it can work with to challenge Assad.

ANDERSON: You talked about the number of U.S. troops still in Syria. Mr. Biden and other U.S. officials have also mentioned the importance of protecting them, there currently stationed. Why keep them there?

STROUL: Because ISIS, we have not yet achieved the enduring defeat of ISIS.

[08:40:00]

So, the one specific mission that Congress continues to reauthorize and fund is the defeat ISIS mission there, even though they don't hold territory. They're still, again, these 9000 fighters under custody as the United States tries to work with international allies and partners to repatriate them.

And then, as you noted, the 40,000 women and children in displaced person's camp. So, ISIS looks at these fighters as the way to replenish their ranks, and they look at the babies and the young children in those displaced persons camps as ISIS 2.0 and until the international community, including the United States, has a solution to that population, the risk of ISIS reconstituting is very serious. ANDERSON: What is the solution for Syria and the future for Syria at this point. I wonder how you assess what President Biden declared as a moment of historic opportunity, but also underscoring the risk and uncertainty for Syria going forward. How would you assess where the Biden Administration's thinking is at this point?

STROUL: Well, first of all, as it relates to Syrians, this is just a tremendous opportunity for Syrians who across ethnicity, sect, religion and geography within Syria did not want to be under the yoke of Bashar Al Assad and his regime. And so, the United States has been involved in a lot of meetings about what an inclusive process that could reflect the voices and desires of all Syrians could be.

That's going to be really, really hard work, and I think we're going to see a series of meetings in Geneva and other places over the coming days and weeks to actually design a process that could reflect the aspirations of Syrians.

ANDERSON: It's good to have you. Thank you so much for joining us. Following a breaking story out of Italy for you, just before I take a very short break. An explosion at a gas refinery has claimed at least two lives and injured at least nine others. It happened near Florence, where another four people remain missing.

The facility belongs to any which is one of Italy's largest energy companies. For five decades of rule by one family has ended in Syria. We will take a look at how history will likely remember Bashar Al Assad and his family's regime that is after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: Unclear what kind of leadership will take over in Syria following the government's collapse there. But for the first time in decades, those decisions will be made without an Assad at the helm. CNN's Nic Robertson details the rise and fall of the family's political rule.

[08:45:00]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): Bashar Al Assad inherited his father's totalitarian regime and left it and his country in ruins. A thuggish police state in a brutal repression turned war where hundreds of thousands of civilians were killed and more than half the population fled their homes.

RAMI KHOURI, MIDDLE EAST ANALYST: He'll be remembered as one of the most violent rulers in response to the uprisings that started in late 2010 in the Arab world. He'll also be remembered as the failing end point of the Assad dynasty that his father had started that lasted for over 42 years, but it collapsed under him.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Bashar Al Assad never expected to take over from his father. His older brother Basil was the heir apparent. Instead, Bashar trained as an ophthalmologist in London. Former Assad family insiders say he didn't have the right stuff to run Syria.

ABDEL HALIM KHADAM, FORMER SYRIAN VICE PRESIDENT: His brother Basil bullied him as a child. His father never gave him as much attention as possible.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): When President Hafez Al Assad died in 2000, Syria's elite pushed Bashar into the presidency keeping 30 years of their own wealth, power, position and influence intact.

RIFAAT ASSAD, BASHAR AL ASSAD'S UNCLE: Hafez was a leader, the head of the entire regime, while Bashar never came close to that.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): At first, the new president agreed to modest reforms and released hundreds of political prisoners, but that brief moment of optimism, dubbed the Damascus Spring ended abruptly. Protests demanding change spread across Syria in early 2011.

The regime cracks down, turning peaceful protests into slaughter. The U.N. found what it called massive evidence of war crimes, crimes against humanity, responsibility at the highest level of government, including the head of state. The chaos spawned countless local militias and opposition forces.

In the mayhem, the ultra-violent Islamist group ISIS gained a temporary foothold, spewing its nihilistic terror over the border into Iraq. U.S. and Iraqi forces confronted and ultimately crushed them, but didn't challenge Assad's brutal authority. Russia too joined the fight.

Assad and his allies, Hezbollah from Lebanon, an Iranian militia, were losing ground. Committing more forces than any other country with barbaric, internationally condemned ground and air assaults, Russia turned the tide in Assad's favor. But when Russia's forces went to war in Ukraine in 2022, the clock on Assad's rule began ticking down by late 2024.

His other main allies, Iran and Hezbollah, were blooded by over a year long war with Israel. Assad's fortunes plummeted. Former al-Qaeda turned nationalist Islamist Hayat Tahrir al-Sham surged out of their northern enclave, exploiting Assad's allies' weakness over running the country.

Within two weeks, Assad had fled to Russia, ending his family's half century ruthless repression of the Syrian people. His life in exile begins living in the shadow of fear his heinous crimes will eventually catch up with him. Nic Robertson, CNN, London.

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ANDERSON: Well, it is Donald Trump's signature issue. You will hear what he is saying about migration and mass deportations. Now that he has won the White House more and that is coming up.

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[08:50:00] ANDERSON: Well, Donald Trump addressed the policy and pardons in his first major TV interview since his election win. President-elect says he will look at issuing pardons for the January the sixth riot is on his first day back in office, but he is leaving room for his appointees to decide whether to go after those who led investigation into his conduct during the Capitol attack. Trump was pressed on whether he would direct his picks to send political opponents to jail. Have a listen.

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DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND CURRENT PRESIDENTIAL- ELECT: Honestly, they should go to jail.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, you think Liz Cheney should go to jail?

TRUMP: For what --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everyone on the committee --

TRUMP: I think everybody, anybody that voted --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you getting director, FBI Director and your attorney general to send them to jail?

TRUMP: No. Not at all. I think that they'll have to look at that. But I'm not going to -- I'm going to focus on drill, baby drill.

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ANDERSON: Well, Trump also previewed his plan to place additional tariffs on major trading partners like Mexico and China. He argues the U.S. is subsidizing those countries, and tariff hikes would create a more equitable economy, but Americans could pay the price.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you guarantee American families won't pay more?

TRUMP: I can't guarantee anything. I can't guarantee tomorrow.

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ANDERSON: Well, the incoming U.S. President also spoke about his plan to begin mass deportations right away when he takes office. Now, he pledged to prioritize deportations of migrants with criminal records, and he said he would work to end birth right citizenship, even though that is part of the 14th Amendment of the Constitution of America.

But Trump indicated he is open to working with Democrats to protect those who are known as dreamers, brought to the U.S. as children. Well, CNN's Priscilla Alvarez tracking the Trump transition for us. We sometimes see candidates ease up on their rhetoric once they get elected. Not so Donald Trump, I'm not sure that we heard anything particularly new from him on a number of issues there. These are signature issues of what was, in the end, a very successful campaign.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, but he did offer some contradictory statements, especially when it comes to immigration, because, as he outlined his mass deportation plan, he suggested that it would go beyond criminals and essentially cover those who came into or all of those who came into the U.S. illegally, noting that it is, quote, a very tough thing to do.

Yes, there are limitations on detention, deportation and repatriation, but he signaled that openness for dreamers, they are also, however, undocumented immigrants. They came to the United States as children. There's often been bipartisan support for this subset of the undocumented population.

And it was significant that the president-elect was showing some level of willingness to work with Congress to try to find a solution for those undocumented immigrants. Take a listen.

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TRUMP: And we have to do something about the dreamers, because these are people that have been brought here at a very young age, and many of these are middle aged people now, they don't even speak the language of their country. I will work with the Democrats on a plan, and if we can come up with a plan, but the Democrats have made it very, very difficult to do anything. Republicans are very open to the dreamers. The dreamers --

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ALVAREZ: Now, Democrats and Republicans have often pointed the finger at each other when it comes to who failed to pass legislation to protect, again, these undocumented immigrants who came to the U.S. as children, but there is bipartisan support even so, though it has been years.

And Congress still has not been able to pass legislation on this matter, but the president-elect suggesting that he would do something on the matter by working with those in Congress. Now, of course, one of his most controversial actions that he says he would take is ending birth right citizenship, suggesting that the U.S. is the only one that does so. That is not the case. More than two dozen other countries do as well. It is also part of the 14th Amendment.

[08:55:00]

So, any change to birth right citizenship would have to go through Congress, though, certainly his team appears like they are going to try to test the legal system and see if they can pass something through executive action. But certainly, Becky, all of these policies are starting to come into shape as they look toward January.

He is standing by his pledges on this very divisive issue, also an issue that you know contributed to him earning or winning the White House. But certainly, the team behind the scenes is preparing these actions to take on day one, Becky.

ANDERSON: Yeah, it's good to have you. Priscilla, thank you very much indeed. And of course, January the 20th, all change in the U.S., all change today in Syria, the Assad regime is over. Syrian rebels now putting into place, at least in principle, some plans, ideas about what Syria's political future will look like. And what life for Syrians will hold going forward. More on that, coming up on "Connect the World" after this short break, stay with us.

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