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Kash Patel Meets with Senators; Hegseth's Plan to Cut Benefits Alarms Veterans; Sonya Massey's Father Pleads to Keep Daughter's Killer Locked Up. Aired 10:30-11a ET
Aired December 09, 2024 - 10:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:30:00]
JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right. This just into CNN. A new video of President-Elect Donald Trump's cabinet picks. They're up on Capitol Hill. This was just moments ago. His pick for FBI director, Kash Patel, is up on Capitol Hill meeting with Senator Joni Ernst. You can see him walking into the office right there. We're tracking all these developments. And keep you posted on anything that develops in the coming minutes.
In the meantime, Pete Hegseth is also up on Capitol Hill this morning fighting to keep his hopes of becoming defense secretary alive. But his vocal support for shifting access to veterans' healthcare from the V.A. to private providers is raising red flags among veteran groups. It's a stance Hegseth and Trump's pick to head the V.A. both share.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, TRUMP'S DEFENSE SECRETARY PICK: It's a typical swampy feedback loop, outside the box thinking of say providing private choice for veterans is a threat, complete threat to the American people. ecosystem around the government bureaucracy and the V.A. and the veterans groups. They exist to defend their territory. And they'll say, oh, it's for the betterment of the vets. Well, if vets are getting better treatment from non-conventional places, why aren't we exploring that? Well, the bureaucracy can't handle that.
DOUG COLLINS, TRUMP'S VETERANS AFFAIRS SECRETARY PICK: We've got to get back to a system that puts those veterans' patients first. And if that means they want to go to their own doctors, then so be it. Let's quit thinking in the same bold and box. I've been there before, just like the congressman. And it's not about a metrics of money, it's about a metrics of effectiveness.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: And we're joined by former army captain and Afghan war veteran Jason Kander. He was Missouri Secretary of State and as an advocate for veterans. Jason, good to see you this morning. I mean, the V.A. is troubled, That is no secret. What are your thoughts about this idea of shifting care for veterans from the V.A. to the private insurance markets?
JASON KANDER, AFGHAN WAR VETERAN, VETERANS ADVOCATE, RETIRED ARMY CAPTAIN AND FORMER MISSOURI SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, this is a very typical position by politicians in the veteran space. You probably noticed over the course of however long we've had television that is extremely popular for politicians to basically crap on the V.A. all the time. And don't get me wrong like the V.A. has problems, but they don't originate from the V.A. Where they originate from is Congress because we ask the wrong question when we create veterans benefits. The question we ask when we create veterans benefits is, are we doing everything we can to make sure that nobody gets access to this benefit who doesn't deserve it?
And the reason that's the wrong question is because it begins with the assumption that there are veterans who don't deserve it. And that's how you get a byzantine system that is often too hard to navigate. So, when Pete Hegseth talks about veterans protecting the bureaucracy being the mission of the V.A. instead of serving veterans or Mr. Collins there says that, why aren't we doing everything possible to help the veterans by letting them go to private providers? One, there are instances already where you can go to private providers. But two, what that tells me is that those two gentlemen almost certainly have never used the V.A. for their services -- for their health care services.
Because if they had, what they would know, that the reason we have an entire administration of health care just for veterans is because when you go to the V.A., as I do, you find that people who work with veterans all the time, there's a specialty to that so that the person who's working on your back is also looking for signs of say PTSD or they know that the reason your back hurts is because of the specific job you did in the military because they can look at your chart and they understand that in a way that a private provider doesn't.
So, I think a lot of this is a function of two things. One, assuming that kicking the V.A. constantly without putting any sort of responsibility on Congress for the way they create the programs is OK. And two, I don't think either of these two have ever gone to the V.A. for their services.
ACOSTA: Yes. Jason, I was going to ask you because you battled PTSD yourself. What would happen to a veteran who is dealing with PTSD, for example, who is, I guess, thrown into the private insurance market where -- I mean, as we've been talking about with this UnitedHealthcare story over the last several days, I mean, one of the features of the private insurance system is delay, deny, you know, put people through the wringer in terms of, you know, paperwork and everything else. And it can be an entirely frustrating experience. Whereas V.A., it's a different kind of system.
[10:35:00]
KANDER: Yes. Look, it's going to be a lot like when veterans try to go get care from the private system right now. It's a lot like when you try to go get private care, when I do. Sometimes it works great, sometimes it doesn't work at all. But what I know is that it doesn't make sense to create a system that is motivated entirely by profits. Efficiency and profits are not actually synonymous. Here's the thing that almost none of your viewers probably know. Most of your viewers, understandably, probably think what most Americans think, which is if you served in uniform, if you raised your right hand and swore the oath, you can go to the V.A. for your healthcare services. That's not actually true. There is a huge percentage of people who fit that definition who are not considered veterans by the federal government. We actually need to broaden the sight aperture on who counts as a veteran, not shrink it. And what Hegseth and Collins are talking about is saying there are too many people who are eligible for the V.A.
Well, you know what happens when you shrink the amount of people who are eligible for the V.A.? You increase veteran suicide and you increase veteran homelessness. We already don't have enough veterans who are eligible for the V.A.
It should be very simple. If you serve this country, if you raised your right hand and swore the oath, you should be able to go to the V.A. for your healthcare services. What they're talking about doing is even beyond the idea of privatizing part of the V.A. What they're saying -- what Hegseth at least is saying is, you should only be able to go to the V.A. if you can prove that you have a service-connected disability. That means he wants to increase the amount of bureaucracy to check out those sort of claims, and it's going to keep a lot more people out of the system. It's going to make the system much more of a chutes and ladders sort of system. And that's not going to help anybody at all.
ACOSTA: Yes. And so, if you privatize the V.A. system, what happens?
KANDER: If you privatize the V.A. system, what you end up doing is you end up sending vets to providers who are not specialized in dealing with vets. There's all sorts of things they're not going to see. Like, you go in for a back problem, your doctor is not going to say, OK, what was your MOS? They're not going to look at your MOS and say, oh, I understand. You carried 50 pounds on your back on a regular basis. So, I think we should look at your L4 or L5. That's not going to happen for veterans, first of all.
Second, you're going to have private insurance providers handling as contractors for the V.A. who are highly incentivized to say, you know, this kind of trauma doesn't fit these five definitions that we have for PTSD. And what you're going to end up with is an increase beyond the 22 a day that we see already.
The most important statistic to know before we leave this segment, Jim, is this, is that the -- of the 22 veterans who take their own lives every day, out of that 22, 16, on average, are not connected to any veteran specific services of any kind at the time that happens. If you make it harder to access veteran specific services, you will increase that number by a lot.
ACOSTA: Wow. All right. Well, Jason, we knew you were the right person to go to, to hear about some of these concerns. Best of luck to you. Thanks as always for your time. We appreciate it.
KANDER: Thanks, Jim.
ACOSTA: All right. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:40:00]
ACOSTA: Some very big concerns this morning from the family of Sonya Massey. Her father is now speaking out pleading that the ex-deputy who killed her in her Springfield, Illinois home stayed behind bars until trial.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES WILBURN, FATHER OF SONYA MASSEY: And I want to tell you all that until a undertaker puts some embalming fluid in this body, I'm going to fight to keep my daughter's killer in a jail cell. I would encourage the Illinois Supreme Court to keep that killer locked up. That's the best place for him, cause it might be a problem if he gets out on these streets.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: A sheriff's deputy shot and killed his daughter in July after she called 911 for help. It was captured on body camera, but I want to warn you this is disturbing and we're pausing it before the shots are fired. But this is to refresh your memory of what happened to Sonya.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SONYA MASSEY: You (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, that's right now. I better shoot you (INAUDIBLE) face.
MASSEY: OK. I'm sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop it. Drop it. Drop (INAUDIBLE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: The ex-deputy who killed Massey has been charged with murder and has pleaded not guilty. And James Wilburn, the father of Sonya Massey, joins us now along with family, friend and community activist Teresa Haley.
James, let me start with you first. Again, we're very sorry for your loss. You're now fighting to keep the ex-deputy, Sean Grayson, behind bars. Where does all of this stand right now?
WILBURN: The Sangamon County State's attorney, John Milhiser, has filed a petition with the Illinois Supreme Court to overturn the ruling of the three-judge panel on the Appeals Court who have ruled that this killer is no longer a threat to society as a whole.
[10:45:00] But my contention is this man is a criminal. He has not followed any rules in any of the six police departments he was a part of for about -- in three and a half years. Rules are made for normal people. They're not for criminals and killers. There is no set of conditions that will make the people of Springfield, Illinois safe to have this killer on the streets.
ACOSTA: And what will this do to your family if that happens?
WILBURN: It will feel like we're all violated again. But we live in the best country in the world, the United States of America. And I just don't think this kind of miscarriage of justice is going to be allowed. I don't think that the people of Springfield or anywhere else in this country are going to allow a killer to walk the streets for -- it might be two years before he actually goes to trial.
ACOSTA: And, Teresa, what is your message to the courts as they're weighing this, whether to release Sean Grayson?
TERESA HALEY, FRIEND OF SONYA MASSEY'S FAMILY AND COMMUNITY ACTIVIST: We're asking that you keep Sean Grayson behind bars because he is a threat to society. Springfield, Illinois is the home of the 1908 race riots that led to the start of the NAACP as we know it today. And no justice, no peace. A lot of times, black people in my community, we feel like it's just us standing up, speaking, being victims of crimes like this, and no one's paying attention. No one's speaking up, and no one's doing anything to really help us. So, we're asking the Supreme Court to take a stand, and to do the right thing, and to keep this creep behind bars.
ACOSTA: And, James -- and, Teresa, we reached out to Grayson's attorney. He told NBC News that Grayson is no longer a threat. This is according to the attorney because he has been fired from his job and the sheriff's office. James, what's your response to that?
WILBURN: Well, he never should have been in the sheriff's department. He should have never been given a badge and gun by anybody. Thus, the early retirement of Jack Campbell, the sheriff of Sangamon County. I think he was a good old boy hired in the beginning. I don't think he could have ever passed a legitimate background investigation for anybody's police department.
The State of Illinois was wrong to leave this person certified to be able to jump from one police department where he had problems, and there was so many red flags that were showing up in this person's behavior. He should have never been allowed to go from one police department to another police department, and it's just crazy. We need to make this make sense to us. Make it make sense to us.
ACOSTA: And, Teresa, the Justice Department has opened an investigation into Sonya's killing. What do you hope that this investigation uncovers?
HALEY: It will show that he is a menace to society. If he did this while in uniform, authorized to carry a gun, and now he's been stripped of his uniform, hell, we don't know what he's liable to do or what's liable to happen in our community. So, we're asking the Supreme Court to keep this creep behind bars. He is definitely a threat to society, a threat to our community, a threat to me as a black woman.
Hell, he went into a black woman's house and shot her in the face because she said, I rebuke you in the name of Jesus. If you can't call on the Lord, who can you call on?
ACOSTA: James and Teresa, I can feel the pain in your voices and we're right there with you. We really appreciate the time this morning and please keep us posted on how this case develops. Thank you so much.
HALEY: Thank you.
WILBURN: Thank you, Jim.
ACOSTA: Thank you. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:50:00]
ACOSTA: The college football playoff brackets are set and the tide is denied. CNN's Coy Wire joins me now. Coy, I mean, this is wild to see this playoff bracket without any Alabama in there. It's Bama-less.
COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Yes, it is. And, Jim, you're James Madison Dukes also on the outside looking in.
ACOSTA: I know. It's all right.
WIRE: Without as much backlash.
ACOSTA: We're in a bowl. That's all that matters.
WIRE: Exactly. Right. Undefeated Oregon, they are going to get the number one overall seed. And the buy Georgia, Boise State, Arizona State get the other buys. But the biggest debate centered around whether Bama deserved to get in ahead of SMU. Three loss Alabama had a much tougher schedule, but didn't make their conference title game.
SMU had just two losses, one of them to Clemson in the ACC title game on the last second field goal. Well, the committee sided with SMU. The Mustangs will be play Penn State while Clemson plays at Texas. There are other matchups, are going to be Notre Dame hosting in state rivals Indiana, and Ohio State hosting Tennessee.
The first round games, Jim, kickoff December 20th and 21st, two of them will be on our sister channel TNT. And, Jim, that all leads up to the college football playoff national championship game. I know you will come down here to Atlanta January 20th to see not Alabama in the championship, but I want to know who you think is going to win it all.
[10:55:00]
ACOSTA: Well, let's put that bracket back up on screen, Coy, because I do want to get your take too. And to me, what is so crazy about this, and it's the first year of it, is that Arizona State and Boise State get buys here. They're not exactly football powerhouses, but they've had incredible seasons. It's really sort of unreal. Like, I mean, I would think like Notre Dame would be in there or Texas would get the buy, but no, they've got to play a game to get to the next round.
WIRE: Yes, that's correct. And that's because they were the highest seated conference championship champions, and that's why they were able to do it. It stands out Arizona State, Former Pac 12 team --
ACOSTA: They look good.
WIRE: -- winning of their new conference in the first year. Same thing with Oregon, winning the big10, having come from the Pac 12. But, you know, my dark horse, Jim, is actually going to be Indiana. They are a phenomenal team.
ACOSTA: Interesting. They really are. The old coach from James Madison. They stole our coach. I will put that out there.
WIRE: And I loved his quote and he was like, what do you tell recruits when you get them to come to Indiana? He says, all I do is win. Google me.
ACOSTA: Yes.
WIRE: You got to love it.
ACOSTA: I think you're right about that. And Georgia better watch out if they draw Indiana. It's going to be wild to watch. Fun stuff. Coy Wire, thanks as always.
WIRE: Good to see you.
ACOSTA: Really appreciate it. Thanks for joining us this morning. I'm Jim Acosta. Our next hour of Newsroom with Pamela Brown starts after a short break. Have a good day.
[11:00:00]
