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New, Police Rush to Determine Suspect's Motive, Movements; Several Cabinet Picks Back on Capitol Hill to Meet With Senators; Sen. Joni Ernst (R-IA) Says, Hegseth Meeting was Very Productive. Aired 10- 10:30a ET

Aired December 10, 2024 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. You are alive in the CNN Newsroom. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

Police are rushing to piece together the suspect's motive and movements prior to the ambush killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. The 26-year-old suspect is charged with second-degree murder.

CNN's Leigh Waldman has the latest.

LEIGH WALDMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: First night here at a state prison, we're being told he's kept in isolation and there were no incidents reported with him overnight. They also tell us that he is being held at a maximum custody level. Late last night, there were murder charges filed out of New York.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D-PA): The suspect here who shot at that CEO and killed that CEO is a coward, not a hero.

WALDMAN (voice over): A days-long manhunt coming to an end at a McDonald's fast food restaurant in Altoona, Pennsylvania, when 26- year-old Luigi Mangione was recognized by an employee.

MAYOR ERIC ADAMS (D-NEW YORK CITY, NY): If you see something, say something, but most importantly, do something, and they did.

WALDMAN: During Mangione's arrest, police asked if he had been to New York recently. Officers noted he began to shake and presented them with a fake I.D., according to the criminal complaint. Authorities say he was carrying what's called a ghost gun, an untraceable, self- assembled firearm that may have been 3D printed. Investigators are now working to see if ballistics and DNA evidence from a recovered backpack and other items will link to Mangione.

His former roommate, R.J. Martin, says his arrest is unfathomable.

R.J. MARTIN, LUIGI MANGIONE'S FORMER ROOMMATE: It wasn't, you know, anything specific. It wasn't like he had an axe to grind or he was even upset or angry about a particular issue. They were just natural intellectual conversations that you have when you're inquisitive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALDMAN: Mangione is facing five charges in Pennsylvania, including second-degree possession of a forged document and one count of carrying a firearm without a license, according to the criminal complaint.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALDMAN (on camera): During his initial court appearance, Mangione did not enter a plea, and the judge ordered that he be held here without bail. The same official we spoke to at the Department of Corrections said that he'll be held here indefinitely. Officials with the NYPD say that they're in no rush to extradite him back to New York.

In Huntington, Pennsylvania, I'm Leigh Waldman reporting.

ACOSTA: All right. Leigh, thank you. As Leigh just reported, Mangione began visibly shaking when asked if he had been to New York recently. One of the arresting officers has been on the job only six months. This is what he said last night.

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OFC. TYLER FRYE, ALTOONA, PA POLICE: We knew that was our guy, but he was very cooperative with us, didn't really give us too many issues. Once we found out his identity, we took it from there.

REPORTER: How does it feel with six months on the job as a law enforcement to be part of this?

FRYE: I can't say I was expecting it by any means, but it feels good to get a guy like that off the street, especially starting my career this way. It feels great.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Joining us now is Bryanna Fox, a former FBI special agent. She is a criminology professor at the University of South Florida. Bryanna, thank you very much for joining us.

Does it surprise you that the suspect in this very targeted murder surrendered peacefully? What do you think about that?

BRYANNA FOX, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Yes, there were concerns that maybe he kept the gun on him. So, there could be a shootout or even a suicide attempt at the time that he may be expected authorities to arrive. But very luckily, he did not do that.

I think that one of the reasons behind why he didn't is that he feels like there's more to say behind his message. I think he was leaving these breadcrumbs from us from the monopoly money in his bag left in Central Park to his manifesto that he kept on him. Things like that show that he really has a strong message he wants to share, and I don't think he thinks he's done sharing that yet.

ACOSTA: Do you think he wanted to be caught?

FOX: I wouldn't say he was looking to be caught, but I would say that he probably expected it. He was sitting there casually in a McDonald's.

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It seems like he'd gone across the state by bus and then was potentially coming back, maybe even in New York City.

I think the big thing was not necessarily whether or not he was going to get caught, but how much media attention, how much support for his messaging that he could drum up essentially in the interim while he was on the run and now since he's being held under arrest.

ACOSTA: Yes. And, Bryanna, police say Mangione was found with a weapon, a handwritten manifesto attacking corporate America. Here are a couple of quotes. According to a police official who saw the document, quote, these parasites had it coming, he wrote. And I do apologize for any strife and trauma, but it had to be done.

A law enforcement analysis says the suspect -- apparently, this was -- essentially saying that this was a targeted killing as a symbolic takedown. What do you make of all that?

FOX: I think that's correct. It seems like every piece of evidence that we have so far points to that. But one thing I would say is considering that there is this, you know, sort of support for the message that he has been, you know, advocating about the healthcare industry, to me, that would say, why didn't he go through legal means?

There is potentially a lot of support for this message. So, why not go to politicians? Why not go to, you know, protest? Why not do it through other means? The violent method was not necessary and never condonable.

So, I actually think the fact that there is so much, you know, outcry about his arrest and people speaking out essentially with his message, that suggests he probably would have been successful if he had done this in a less violent way.

ACOSTA: And, apparently, he also posted a favorable review of the anti-technology manifesto by the Unabomber, Ted Kaczynski. And he's a domestic terrorist. What do you make of all that?

FOX: Yes. It's this, I think, you know, sort of grandiose approach to it where, you know, he's taking this on like he's the Batman vigilante. Essentially, he is the only one that could solve this for the rest of us. And it had to take this, you know, violent means to do so.

I don't think it's necessarily accurate. I think it's a hard job to try to change the way things are, but it certainly would have been possible, especially with someone as clever and motivated as him.

ACOSTA: Yes. Bryanna, I mean, what do you think about the fact that he was a 26-year-old Ivy League graduate, grew up in a wealthy Baltimore family, was valedictorian of his class from a prestigious all-boys private school? I mean, this doesn't sound like somebody who would go out and do something like this. It sounds like somebody who had, you know, a bright future. What do you think happened to him?

FOX: Exactly. I think of all the people that potentially would have, you know, access and capability to try to make a big change, someone like him who has a family with resources, who had such a strong, you know, backgrounds, you know, with his training and intellect data analysis, he was probably the perfect person to go about this and lead a movement in a nonviolent way.

So, there's absolutely no reason that it had to turn violent. This victim left behind two young sons. It's tragic. And I think that even if we ultimately agree with the healthcare system being broken, you don't do it like this.

ACOSTA: That's absolutely right. And do you think that based on what you know about the suspect so far that he might've tried to do something like this again, that he might've tried to make another statement through violence, if you will, if he had not been caught?

FOX: That's a really interesting question. I think that the fact that he seemingly was, you know, successful at least for a couple of days and was able to drop so much attention on this case, it may have emboldened him where I thought, well, I could try this again or I could do more.

So, I think that there's not usually a lot of governors on people that have that kind of vigilante mentality. So, he certainly could have been thinking about that.

ACOSTA: All right. Bryanna Fox, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it.

FOX: Thanks.

ACOSTA: And Mangione's family released a statement through his cousin, Nino, who is a Maryland State delegate, says this. Our family is shocked and devastated by Luigi's arrest. We offer prayers to the family of Brian Thompson, and we ask people to pray for all involved.

Coming up, Trump's pick to lead the Pentagon tries to clean up his comments that women should not serve in combat. That's next.

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ACOSTA: This morning, several of Donald Trump's most controversial cabinet picks are up on Capitol Hill looking for support from key senators ahead of their confirmation hearings. The president-elect's choice for defense secretary, Fox Host Pete Hegseth, will meet with Alaska Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski as past allegations of misconduct, including sexual assault, shadow him at the moment. Senator Murkowski says she will absolutely address those allegations.

But Hegseth's chances got a boost from Iowa GOP Senator Joni Ernst after the two met for the second time yesterday. Here's what she told Fox News or he told Fox News.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, TRUMP'S DEFENSE SECRETARY PICK: You get into these meetings and you get to listen to senators is an amazing advice and consent process. And you hear how thoughtful, serious, substantive they are on these key issues as they pertain to our Defense Department. And Joni Ernst is front and center on that.

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So, able to have phone calls and meetings time and time again to talk over the issues is really important. And the fact that she's willing to support me through this process means a lot.

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ACOSTA: Senator Ernst served more than 20 years in the military and is the first female combat veteran elected to the chamber. She has not publicly endorsed Hegseth, but said she liked what he had to say about women in the military. Take a listen.

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REPORTER: Change your mind?

SEN. JONI ERNST (R-IA): It was a very productive meeting, though. I think we're just moving through the process, but he does respect that I'm taking the time.

REPORTER: Did you talk about the allegations as well, Senator?

ERNST: Thank you very much. I'll go back to my state.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, guys. Let us close the elevator.

REPORTER: Supporting the process, this doesn't sound like you're a yes yet. Is that fair?

ERNST: I am supporting the process.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Guys, we got to be able to close the elevator. I'm so sorry.

REPORTER: I'm not blocking.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know what's blocking you.

REPORTER: We're not blocking.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Something is.

REPORTER: We're not blocking.

REPORTER: Did he commit to keeping women in their current roles in the military?

ERNST: He is very supportive of women in the military. It is one thing that we discussed.

REPORTER: So, he's changed his position? He's changed his position on that?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Sometimes that's how the sausage gets made up on Capitol Hill.

Let's discuss with the current chair of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Democrat Jack Reed of Rhode Island. Mr. Chairman, thank you so much for being with us.

I'm sure you've been in some of those scrums before, but it seems to be more on the other side of the aisle these days. How is Pete Hegseth's nomination looking at this point? Do you think there will be any opposition coming from Republican senators?

SEN. JACK REED (D-RI): Well, at first we have to go through and do a thorough review of his record, not just sit down and talk to him but look at the record that's being compiled now by the FBI. It'll be sent to us, and we have to hear him out. But there's so many issues, his treatment of women, his long time declaration that they should not serve in combat, which would be, I think, weakening our readiness, not strengthening it, his drinking habits, all these things together with the fact that he simply doesn't have a great deal of experience running large organizations. The two small groups he ran essentially financially failed.

So, there are lots of questions to be asked, but the process must involve asking these questions, listening to the answers and then making a judgment.

ACOSTA: And, Mr. Chairman, are you inclined to support this nomination at this point?

REED: Well, at this point, I'm waiting for the opportunity to go through all the records. I think, particularly on the Armed Services Committee, we have an obligation to thoroughly review anybody who's sent up here. And after we've done our review, asked our questions, and even more questions, then make a judgment based on the facts and based on the needs of the service and the nation.

ACOSTA: And I'm sure you know this. Pete Hegseth is trying to walk back some of these comments he has previously made about women in the military, saying they have been, quote, misconstrued. But let's listen to what he said in November and compare it to what he said last night on Fox. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HEGSETH: I'm straight up just saying we should not have women in combat roles. It hasn't made us more effective, hasn't made us more lethal, has made fighting more complicated.

I also want an opportunity here to clarify comments that have been misconstrued that I somehow don't support women in the military. Some of our greatest warriors, our best warriors out there are women who served, raised their right hand to defend this country and love our nation, want to defend that flag. And they do it every single day around the globe.

So, I'm not presuming anything, but after President Trump asked me to be his secretary of defense, should I get the opportunity to do that? I look forward to being a secretary for all our warriors, men and women, for the amazing contributions they make in our military.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Mr. Chairman, what do you make of that?

REED: It sounds like a pre-confirmation conversion. He was pretty blatant. He's not only been blatant in his comments, he's blatant in his writings that women should not be in combat. And then now, suddenly to disown those comments, it seems more calculated to get votes for a confirmation than it is his real policy, which he'll carry out.

And then in addition to his statements about women in combat, allegations about his treatment of women, I think, are going to be detrimental to his position if he's chosen as secretary of defense, because I think women will not trust him because of his alleged incidents with many other ones.

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ACOSTA: Yes. And if you listen to folks in Trump world, they're pretty confident that Pete Hegseth is going to get confirmed. I mean, you talked to some of your Republican colleagues privately. Senators do that. Do you get the sense that this is a slam dunk or this is still up in the air?

REED: It's still in the air, frankly, Jim, because, you know, there might be more information coming out that could shift and likely shift away from confirmation. But in addition, we have not yet received a lot of the reports that we will get. We haven't had the chance to have an open hearing so he can testify. And we can ask him questions about why does he, at one point say, no women, they detract from my readiness, they're terrible in the military, in combat particularly, and then suddenly he's now -- he's the most enthusiastic supporter? And that'll come across.

And I think the other factor that comes across is, under this scrutiny, the public will start forming conclusions about his capabilities. And that's just the tip of the iceberg, literally. ACOSTA: And I do want to ask you about one of Trump's other cabinet picks, a former Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard, for director of National Intelligence. She previously said toppling Syrian dictator and President Bashar al-Assad, who gassed his own people, as not an enemy of the United States, even calling the war to overthrow him illegal and counterproductive. Does it concern you that someone like Tulsi Gabbard could be briefing the president and overseeing the intelligence community if she's getting things like Bashar al-Assad wrong?

REED: Absolutely. And she has very little background in intelligence. She was in the military. She served with distinction, but as a medical service officer, so she's not an intelligence expert. And then she has these obvious ideas that are not consistent with the facts that Assad is a good guy. In fact, that was proven wrong just a few hours ago when he left his country after his people overthrew him.

So, you're talking about someone that's not really qualified, nor does she have the, I think, balance, common sense insights that are necessary.

ACOSTA: All right. Chairman Jack Reed, senator from Rhode Island, thank you so much for your time this morning. We appreciate it.

REED: Thank you.

ACOSTA: And I want to go live out to CNN's Manu Raju. Manu what are you hearing from senators? It looks like you were just talking to Senator Tillis there a few moments ago. I was talking to Chairman Reed just a couple of seconds ago, as you heard, and he said that Hegseth's nomination is very much up in the air, despite what you're hearing from Trump world that they feel confident that Hegseth will get through. What are you hearing?

MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I think Republicans are sounding more optimistic about really all of Trump's nominees at the moment. This is, of course, a long and arduous process, the vetting process. Things, of course, come up, confirmation hearings can turn things sideways for any given nominee.

But for Pete Hegseth, in particular, things seem to be looking a little bit brighter, particularly compared to last week, given the fact that Senator Joni Ernst is someone, of course, who has been disappointedly refused to say how she would come down on this nomination. She clearly had some concerns. But those concerns have been alleviated. There's been a massive pressure campaign on her. She is not a yes yet, but she's moving much closer to yes.

And, of course, despite the concerns from a number of Democrats, Republicans ultimately can carry the day because in the Republican-led Senate next year will be 53-47 Senate, which means that they can lose three Republican votes and still get the nominee confirmed. Four would kill a nomination, assuming all Democrats vote no.

And at the moment, there just really are not more than three Republicans who are voicing concerns on any individual nominee at the moment. Some may be voicing, Jim, private concerns, but we're not hearing that in public.

Now, could that change? Yes. But for Hegseth, which is undoubtedly the shakiest nominee at the moment, the push has gone into overdrive to quell any of those concerns. Today is a critical meeting for him this afternoon with Senator Lisa Murkowski, a key swing vote in the Senate Republican Conference, tomorrow with Susan Collins as well.

So, if he's able to keep them at least keeping the door open for them for his nomination and Trump, of course, will continue to push Hegseth and perhaps he can get them on board. But at the moment, Trump's team and Republican senators are feeling pretty confident, Jim.

ACOSTA: Yes. And, Manu, I mean, how important is that meeting with Senator Murkowski? Because she has been willing to buck Donald Trump in the past, she certainly did that during his first term in office. What do you think?

RAJU: Yes. She voted against Brett Kavanaugh. Of course, she opposed that nomination and she's been known to break ranks on a number of times.

[10:25:00]

She voted, of course, to convict Donald Trump in the second impeachment trial, as did Senator Susan Collins.

I've asked Murkowski about Hegseth over the last several days in the aftermath of those misconduct allegations. She has been pretty down the middle on this yet, saying she wants to review the allegations, have a chance to question and see how the confirmation proceedings play out. And, of course, she's not a member of the key committees, Senate Armed Services Committee, which will first take up the Hegseth nomination. So, she does not have to take a position today in the aftermath of that meeting. She'll probably want to watch how the proceedings play out before saying if she's a yes or a no.

But it's still a key point moment for Hegseth to try to make sure a key swing vote comes on his side. We'll see if it happens.

ACOSTA: Yes, no question about that. Chairman Reed just indicated a few moments ago that, you know, he wants to wait to see all of the information come in on the Hegseth that nomination just in case there's something else that they're going to have to take a look at between now and a vote.

Manu Raju up on Capitol Hill, as always, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

Coming up next, much more on the young man arrested in the murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO, how he went from high school valedictorian to one of the nation's most wanted suspects. That's next.

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