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Police Determines Suspect's Motives in Killing CEO; Luigi Mangione Charged with Second-Degree Murder; Wildfire Explodes in Malibu; NY A.G. Won't Drop Trump's Civil Fraud Judgement. Aired 10:30- 11a ET

Aired December 10, 2024 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: A law enforcement analysis says the suspect in the murder of United Healthcare's CEO appeared to view the targeted killing as a symbolic takedown and a direct challenge to alleged corruption and power games, as he described it. 26-year-old Luigi Mangione is now charged with second degree murder for the death of Brian Thompson and is awaiting extradition back to New York.

Police arrested Mangione Monday at a Pennsylvania McDonald's after an employee called authorities saying the masked customer resembled the suspect. Here's what a customer told CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It started out almost a little bit like a joke that we thought -- my one friend thought he looked like the shooter. He probably heard us. That surprised me. Stayed there as long as he did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From what I was told, the worker that took his order she said his eyes and his eyebrows, she just thought it was him. It's really -- it's unbelievable. I still can't hardly believe it's for real, you know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Mangione surrendered without incident. Police believe he was the man who stepped behind Thompson on a Manhattan sidewalk last week and shot him in the back before walking away. Former classmates of Mangione also say they are shocked.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FREDDIE LEATHERBURY, LUIGI MANGIONE'S FORMER CLASSMATE: I can tell you that this is one of the last people you think would do something like this. You know, he was one of the nicest kids, most friendly kids that I had known at Gilman.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And we have seen how some people on social media have glorified Brian Thompson's murder. There has been an avalanche of comments supporting it. Last week, a former Washington Post reporter said, quote, "People wonder why we want these executives dead." In just the last 24 hours, social media users have seized on the suspect's appearance. It's yet another sign that of the toxicity of the public discourse in the U.S.

Let's bring in CNN's Chief Media Analyst Brian Stelter, Brian. I mean, we have to say from the get go. I mean, obviously, I mean, it should go without saying that a murder like this is just unbelievably tragic. And he has a family and it's completely uncalled for full stop. What do you make of the reaction that we've been seeing on social media? Just it seems to underline this toxicity that exists in our culture.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Yes, humanity versus inhumanity. That's the dividing line here. And I think most people, including on social media, are on the side of humanity. They don't want to see a father and a businessman killed in cold blood. But that minority that is out there, it's a minority opinion that's very loud, especially on social media is expressing a kind of inhumanity. And I think it's almost kind of like they're saying, well, healthcare companies are inhumane to us. So, we're just trying to treat them the same way.

You know, it -- this is a very, very complicated topic. And yet, people, especially on these social networking sites are trying to distill it into a black or white, or in this case, the red, the color red, the color blood. And some are actually calling for the deaths of these executives and these leaders.

What they really want, I think, is reform, but instead of calling for political reform, the kind of measures you were talking about earlier this hour they're making it very simple, way too simplistic. And I think, Jim, this is what we see in an environment, in a culture where people will say things behind a computer screen they would never say to a person's face. This is a very vivid demonstration of that.

ACOSTA: Yes. And we even have companies like Amazon trying to tamp this down. They're pulling products from the site, displaying the word deny, defend, depose, the same one scrawled on the bullet casings found at the crime scene. I mean, it -- the killing has highlighted a lot of the concerns about the state of the healthcare system in the U.S.

I had a conversation with Wendell Potter who was a whistleblower on the healthcare industry. I used to talk to him all the time in the run up to the passage of Obamacare. And sure, there are lots of problems with the healthcare industry. We talk about them from time to time. But to think that this somehow justifies what took place, it's just awful. It's just horrendous.

STELTER: Right. I think that the challenge here is that there is some nuance, right? Journalists, politicians, you know, elite types, we would be making a mistake to ignore the vitriol that's out there, to ignore these reactions, to just tsk, tsk and say, that's not happening or try to be the decency police.

There is something real here. There's pent up anger and emotion and fashion, and that is important to cover, and that's important to recognize, so people feel seen and heard. At the same time, though, when you have folks who are posting essentially death threats, or celebrating this murder, that's where there's a line that we have to try to still have in this country --

[10:35:00]

ACOSTA: Yes.

STELTER: -- and in this society, right. Jim? You've got to have still a line of decency.

ACOSTA: That's right, Brian. And I think you and I were talking about this before this segment, that, you know, certainly, if people feel passionately about our healthcare industry and you know, I was talking about this, again, the other day, you know, when you get these statements in the mail from your health insurer that says, well, we're covering this and we're not covering -- it's infuriating. You want to pull your hair out.

But at the same time, there is a way for young people out there who are going online and talking about the suspects appearance and so on, they can do something with their time other than going on these social media sites and posting these kinds of comments. They can go organize. They can do the things that can be done to get legislation passed in this country. It might be a lot harder than posting your hot take on social media, but my goodness, that is how you get real change in this country, not doing what Mangione did, and certainly not putting him up on a pedestal.

STELTER: Yes, it's a little bit of the cruelty Olympics online. People are competing to have the hottest take to make the most cruel comments. You know, and I think we live in an environment now, especially in social media environments where sometimes there's a -- you know, people will say they're just kidding. They'll post something that seems very serious, very ugly, then they'll say, no, no, we're just kidding.

We've seen this for many years now, especially in political debates. It is very difficult to have a debate or have a disagreement with someone who can then just say, well, I'm just joking. I'm not really calling for someone's killing. That's the environment though that we are in right now. It's a result of this culture that rewards and, you know, kind of viral and shocking comments.

Always though, Jim, it's important to recognize, I think the majority of people are not making these kinds of comments, it's this minority that sounds very loud on the internet, and that's why companies like Amazon are taking action because they are recognizing this is a real phenomenon they have to grapple with.

ACOSTA: Absolutely. We've seen a lot of people use cruelty to engage in clout chasing in our political dialogue. And that is what is so terribly disappointing. And you don't want it to see it infected across all sides of the political spectrum. And I -- you know, certainly there's a lot to be said about fixing our healthcare industry, but this is just not the way and elevating somebody who did something like this is certainly not the way. This man had a family. There are people suffering as a result of this. Brian Stelter, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it this morning.

STELTER: Thanks.

ACOSTA: Thank you. In the meantime, we are tracking a wildfire that has exploded in Malibu, California. CNN's Veronica Miracle is live in Malibu with a preview. Veronica.

VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim, we have been tracking this all night. The sun is finally coming up. We're going to show you some of the damage after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:40:00]

ACOSTA: Some breaking news to tell you about out in California. A wildfire is exploding in Malibu, tripling in size in just one hour. It has burned through the equivalent of about five football fields every minute since it ignited last night. It is threatening homes and businesses, forcing nearby Pepperdine University to cancel classes and tell students to shelter in place. CNN's Veronica Miracle is in Malibu for us now. Veronica, what are you seeing?

MIRACLE: Well, Jim, now that the sun has finally come up, we're really seeing the scope of the damage here, and there's so much land that has been scorched. You can see all of the smoke behind us right now.

And what we're looking at is a lot of white smoke. That means that a lot of vegetation has burned, and that's what we can see from our vantage point. What we don't want to see is dark, black, thick smoke because that signifies that a building is likely on fire. We have not seen that here this morning.

But we just want to show you just right over here. We've got firefighters right up along this hillside here where a fence has burned, the fire coming up all the way up here. And we are standing on the PCH. This road here is right next to the Pacific Coast Highway and that leads all the way down the coastline. just down the street from us is Pepperdine University where those students are sheltering in place. All schools in Malibu closed for today. And at Pepperdine, where there are finals, all of that has been canceled.

And we've seen a lot of people who were, in the middle of the night, woken up. This fire exploded when it was still dark out, before midnight. And there was -- power went out. There was obviously no light. So, all we could see when we were coming up here in the middle of the night was just the glow of the fire and firefighter lights. Fires were -- firefighters working throughout all of the canyons.

Another thing that makes it so difficult to fight fire here in Malibu is that all of these roads leading up to the canyons, they're just two-lane roads. They're very narrow and getting up into the canyons is difficult. And we are also experiencing right now a high wind event. Embers can travel up to a mile away. So, firefighters could be working on a fire in one area and ember can travel and explode in -- a fire can explode in size mile away. And so, then those firefighters have to race and chase the flames. We've seen a lot of that this morning. The winds right now picking up. And these winds are expected to last through this evening, Jim. So, a lot of concern out here. There's a lot of people who have been evacuated.

So far in terms of structures, firefighters have not released any homes that have been destroyed or damaged. Of course, the sun has just come up, so they're going to have to be going out and taking a look at all of the damage here. There are many structures still threatened, and we're expecting a press conference soon. So, hopefully, we'll get some more information. And hopefully, no homes have been destroyed. Jim.

[10:45:00]

ACOSTA: Yes. And, Veronica, we're showing our viewers right now some live pictures coming in from KABC, our affiliate in Los Angeles. And it's overlooking some of those mountaintops there in Malibu. I was just out there recently, a couple months ago in L.A. doing some hiking up there near the Pacific Palisades and so on. And it was bone dry back then. And it sounds as though it's been really -- it just has been very, very dry heading into December.

MIRACLE: Oh, absolutely. It has been -- I can't remember the last time that it rained. It's been a while. And then when these wind events come through in the wintertime, it just makes for very precarious situations here for firefighters and all of the residents who live here, very densely populated area here in Malibu.

ACOSTA: All right. Well, we're going to stay on top of this for our friends out there on the West Coast. Veronica Miracle, thanks for staying on top of it for us. Thank you so much. We appreciate it.

And if there are more developments, we'll bring them to you. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:00]

ACOSTA: More breaking news to tell you about. New York's Attorney General's Office says it will not drop Donald Trump's $454 million civil fraud judgment despite his election victory. Let's go straight to CNN's Kara Scannell. Kara, what more are you learning?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim. So, the New York Attorney General's Office has responded to a letter sent by Trump's legal team last week, and in this letter today, they're saying that they are not going to drop their judgment, this $454 million civil fraud case that is currently up on appeal.

Now, Trump's lawyers had asked them to dismiss it because Trump is going into the White House. This has been the tactic that they have used on some of the criminal cases, you know, Special Counsel Jack Smith has agreed to dismiss those two indictments. However, in New York, the Manhattan district attorney's office is still fighting to uphold the conviction in the hush money case.

But in this civil fraud case, Trump team, you know, they lost this judgment. The judge found that Trump had fraudulently inflated the value of his properties to obtain better rates on loans and insurance. The judge ordered $454 million for him to pay, which that dollar amount keeps ticking higher with interest.

It has been on appeal. They argued it in September, but because of the election, Trump's lawyers trying to get the A.G. to drop it. In this letter, the A.G. 's team says the trial's over. Final judgment has been rendered and defendants appeal to the First Department has been fully submitted and argued. Mr. Trump's official duties will not be impeded while awaiting the First Department's decision. Mr. Trump's upcoming inauguration as the next president of the United States has no bearing on the penitency of defendant's appeal in this action. So, really trying to draw a distinct line between the civil cases Trump has faced and the criminal ones as well, Jim.

ACOSTA: And, Kara, I guess we didn't expect Letitia James to drop this, to just drop this. So, I guess it's now Trump and his team, they're going to have to find a judge who will do this. Is that likely to happen?

SCANNELL: Right. I mean, this was a letter that they sent to the attorney general's office. It was not something that they brought before a judge. This case is on appeal. The decision by the appellate court could come at any time. It's been fully briefed and argued. So, once a decision hits, it is possible we might see them trying to take some additional action in the courts. But at this point, this was just a letter between two parties. Next step will be to see if they try to do something before a judge.

ACOSTA: Yes, and I guess it begs the question, would a judge say, OK, because you're becoming president of the United States, you don't have to pay this bill? I mean, that, that would be unusual in and of itself.

SCANNELL: Yes. I mean, there is no --

ACOSTA: Sort of uncharted waters. Yes.

SCANNELL: There's no legal history for this. Civil cases have been treated differently involving presidents compared with criminal cases. So, there's not a clear legal foundation for them to make this argument. It seems like it was an attempt just to further the efforts that they're trying to do to make all these legal cases go away.

ACOSTA: Right. Trying to capitalize on his election victory. All right. Kara Scannell, thanks a lot. Appreciate it. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [10:55:00]

ACOSTA: Thank you all very much for joining me this morning. I want to bring in my good friend Pamela Brown. She's going to pick up the next hour of the CNN Newsroom. And, Pam, I mean, this story, the capture of this suspect who killed the CEO, it's unreal. The way that this went down at a McDonald's in Pennsylvania, a worker there apparently thought he looked like the suspect and the photos that were being sent out. It's just amazing how this whole thing played out.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. I mean, he was right there in neighboring Pennsylvania, five days after the shooting. I think a lot of us thought he's in another country by now, whoever the suspect is, but he was right there bopping around Pennsylvania, hanging out at a McDonald's.

ACOSTA: Exactly.

BROWN: And I think one of the most interesting parts of this story that we're all trying to figure out is like on one hand the suspect was so meticulous and planning an execution, but on the other hand, so careless. And I just think it's perplexing.

ACOSTA: Well, we were talking about this -- in this previous hour with a criminologist and I asked the question, do you think he might have tried to do something like this again? Because he was leaving these messages. He was leaving these messages on the bullets and he had the monopoly money in the suitcase. He was certainly trying to send a message to the public and what he was doing. And you have to wonder if he hadn't been caught, if it hadn't been for an alert -- employee at a McDonald's in Pennsylvania, he might still be at large right now.

BROWN: I think that's a fair question, especially because we know it was in this manifesto where he clearly had a lot of ire toward corporate America and greed. And so, it does raise the question whether he was going to target others. So, we're going to dive into all of that here in the show as well. But it's a fascinating story and you just have to remember the family of Brian Thompson during all of this and all that they're going through and how hard this must be for them as well.

ACOSTA: Yes. I totally agree, Pam. We were talking about this with Brian Stelter. There are folks who are sort of elevating this suspect on social media and so on. And what's being lost in all of this is that there is a family that is suffering and going through a great deal of distress right now because of what this young man is accused of doing. And you've got to keep that in mind.

BROWN: Exactly. It's absolutely heartbreaking. All right. Jim, great to see you.

ACOSTA: Good to see you.

BROWN: And good morning, everyone. You are live at the CNN Newsroom.

[11:00:00]