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Hegseth Spreads Baseless Conspiracy Theory About the Jan. 6 Attack; Ossoff "Open-Minded" About Supporting Gabbard; Trump Threatens More Lawsuits Against New Media; Netflix CEO to Meet Trump at Mar-a- Lago; PA Court to Decide Mangione Extradition. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired December 17, 2024 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: This morning some newly surfaced comments could spell more trouble for Pete Hegseth, Donald Trump's embattled pick to leave the Pentagon. A CNN KFile report found the Fox host speaking just days after the January 6th attack downplaying the violence and even pushing widely debunked conspiracy theories like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, TRUMP'S PICK FOR SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: There are reports, you know, in The New York Post and elsewhere, and just from, you know, common sense, that Antifa folks took advantage of this to try to get to the front and try to agitate and create openings for themselves. They want chaos ultimately. I could even spot it. You can see the helmets where there's a, you know, Donald Trump bumper sticker on the back quickly put on it so they could look like they wanted to stop the steal, but what they really want to do is further the narrative.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And joining me now is Democratic Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren of California. She served on the January 6th Select Committee. Congresswoman, how concerned are you that Pete Hegseth was airing these kinds of views and conspiracy theories around January 6th?

REP. ZOE LOFGREN (D-CA), FORMER JAN. 6 SELECT COMMITTEE MEMBER: It's really bizarre. You know, we had a riot here. We had misled Trump supporters who attacked the police with pitchforks, with nails, with other weapons, tried to gouge out eyes and violent attack and that he would be denying that is just bizarre. It's BS, a baloney sandwich.

ACOSTA: And the FBI has found zero evidence supporting this. I mean, should this come up at his confirmation hearings?

LOFGREN: You bet. I mean, I'd like to see some of the senators who ran for their lives on January 6th trying to escape the violence that was being inflicted defend his position. It's ridiculous. And that he would be so either deceptive or gullible to say that really makes you wonder about his judgment. ACOSTA: And we did have a live picture we were looking at during the commercial break. RFK Jr., the Trump pick for Department of Health and Human Services, was apparently visiting one of the lawmakers there in the Senate to make his case, and he is making the rounds up there.

But I will say in the last several minutes from what we understand he was asked, RFK Jr. was, to talk about his views on vaccines. He declined that opportunity to our reporters just a few moments ago. Isn't RFK Jr. going to have to explain himself and explain these views that he has spread over the years about vaccines? He has made a lot of anti-vax comments over the years.

LOFGREN: I think so. I mean, we're lucky to live in an era where science has protected us against diseases that killed millions of children before we had science to keep us from getting measles and mumps and polio. And that we would turn our back on the benefits that science had given to us is -- it's pathetic, really. He needs to answer for that.

ACOSTA: And apparently, Tulsi Gabbard is also making the rounds these days and trying to drum up support for her bid to be the Director of National Intelligence. Democratic Senator Jon Ossoff told one of our reporters just in the last several minutes that he is open to the idea of her being the Director of National Intelligence. What is your sense of it right now? I mean, are all of these Trump picks going to get through in the coming days, do you think?

LOFGREN: Well, I don't know. It's up to the Senate. I served with Tulsi, and I personally like her well enough, but she's not qualified for that position at all. It's ridiculous.

ACOSTA: All right. Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren of California, as always, we appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

LOFGREN: You bet. Thanks.

ACOSTA: All right. Donald Trump vows to quote, "straighten out the press." He's already following through with that threat. That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:35:00]

ACOSTA: All right. Now, to a CNN exclusive that just came in a few moments ago. Senator Jon Ossoff of Georgia says he is, quote, "open- minded" when it comes to supporting Tulsi Gabbard as Trump's pick for Director of National Intelligence, but the Georgia Democrat says he wants more information. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JON OSSOFF (D-GA): I want to remain open-minded about these nominees as they move through the process. There are confirmation hearings ahead, more questions to ask, more information to seek about qualifications, objectives and, you know, particularly in the sense of national security roles whether the individuals nominated are going to pursue their obligations consistent with our national interests, our national security.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Ossoff is believed to be the first Senate Democrat to have an official meeting with Tulsi Gabbard. We'll stay on top of that.

In the meantime, emboldened by a $16 million defamation settlement with ABC, President-Elect Donald Trump is now suing the Des Moines Register and says more lawsuits could be coming.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: We have to straighten out the press. Our press is very corrupt. Almost as corrupt as our elections.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Trump is suing the Iowa Newspaper and its top pollster over its last poll before Election Day. That poll showed Vice President Kamala Harris beating Trump in the state. That poll triggered a wave of coverage that Harris might pull off an upset in a state Trump had won twice before.

Let's go to CNN Media Correspondent Hadas Gold. She joins us now. I mean, Hadas, I mean, it seems like this is one of those Trump lawsuit threats, but it sounds like he's making good on the threat. Apparently, he's not suing for defamation here. What can you tell us?

[10:40:00]

HADAS GOLD, CNN MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he's made good on the lawsuit has been filed and he's not suing for defamation, libel, anything like that. He's actually suing under what you could say is a very aggressive reading of the Iowa Consumer Fraud Act. Now, this act, it prohibits deception when advertising or selling merchandise. That's to say something like, oh, buy this product and you're going to lose 15 pounds tomorrow. That's what it's aimed at. But he is taking that and saying that the news coverage that was caused by this poll, as you know, to that flurry of coverage said, oh, maybe Harris can pull this off, even though Trump had won it two times before. He says that this was intended, that it was intentional to artificially help Democrats during the campaign.

He doesn't show in this lawsuit that Selzer or the Des Moines Register did anything improper in run -- in this poll or how it was done. And we do have a statement from the Des Moines Register. They've acknowledged that the poll did not show the ultimate margin of President Trump's Election Day victory. But I do want to read part of this to you because they also say they acknowledge this by releasing the poll's full demographics, cross tops (ph), weighted and unweighted data, as well as a technical explanation from pollster and Selzer. They say, we stand by our reporting on the matter and believe the lawsuit is without merit.

Now, Jim, we've all seen polls in the past, sometimes they're right, sometimes they're wrong. Even Donald Trump himself has pushed rather unscientific online polls, and Ann Selzer herself has even wondered if the coverage of her poll actually helped push more Republicans out to vote for President Trump.

But Jim, even if this gets thrown out, and a lot of experts in media, law, and the like say this isn't going to go anywhere, in these types of situations, the process is the punishment, because even just showing up to the court and having to sit through all this, paying your lawyers, that cost a lot of money, and it takes a lot of time. And for a smaller organization, for an independent journalist, because President Trump was actually asked, are you going to go after social media influencers or smaller else? He said yes.

ACOSTA: Right.

GOLD: Yes, I will. And you know what, Jim, this is a page out of the authoritarian playbook. Because if you look at places like Hungary's Viktor Orban, this is what they've done when they go after the media. They don't actually usually go for things like defamation and libel, or things that might be more associated with media. They go after things like tax investigations, fraud investigations, and that can really drain an outlet, and it can put a chill. Because then people might be more wary of publishing, they're more careful, or they might even be more of publishing some sort of opinion polls.

But what's most worrying about this, Jim, is the fact that in that press conference, he said he thinks the Justice Department should be doing this, and he shouldn't have to do this on a civil level, essentially saying it should be a criminal level.

ACOSTA: Right. I mean, the point here is to -- it seems to be to suppress negative coverage. And, I mean, to think that you're going to sue a newspaper over a bad poll in a state he won anyway, I mean, it does beg the question, doesn't he have more important things to do?

But you know, we were just talking about this ABC defamation settlement that came out yesterday with Brian Stelter, Hadas, and I'm wondering who else Trump is threatening to go after? It seems like it's a pretty long list. He's already going after -- talking about going after CBS and so on. There it is up on screen. ABC News, Des Moines Register, CBS. I guess, who's next?

GOLD: I mean, there's an ongoing list. As you noted, we've got the 60 Minutes lawsuit is ongoing. The lawsuit against Bob Woodward is ongoing. And we should honestly expect more. I mean, we already have news organizations, Semaphore reported that Axios has warned its reporters, you know, be aware that we are expecting an aggressive -- that the new government will aggressively be going after journalists.

And there's also something interesting in this lawsuit, Jim, is that they're also suing the polling company. And that could cause a chill, potentially, in the polling industry. Maybe some pollsters might be less inclined to release a poll if it shows something negative about the president.

ACOSTA: Yes. And on a day, I should note, when PolitiFact has come out with its lie of the year, and it was about Donald Trump and what he said about the Haitian migrants in Springfield, Ohio, that they're eating dogs and cats, PolitiFact has now deemed that to be the lie of the year, just putting that out to add to the context of this conversation. Hadas Gold, thank you very much for your time this morning. We appreciate it.

In the meantime, the CEO of Netflix adding his name to the long list of top executives from major companies meeting with Donald Trump. Ted Sarandos is scheduled to visit Mar-a-Lago today, just one day after the president-elect welcomed the head of TikTok.

CNN's Alayna Treene is in West Palm Beach, Florida. You know, we talk a lot about streaming these days, but it seems like there's a lot of tech CEOs streaming into Mar-a-Lago. Alayna, what can you tell us about this one?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Right, well, this meeting with Netflix CEO, Ted Sarandos, is going to take place this evening, I'm told. And as you mentioned, Jim, this is just the latest in a flurry of CEOs of major tech companies to meet with Donald Trump in recent weeks. Already, he has met with Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg, with Google CEO Sundar Pichai, Apple CEO Tim Cook, all in recent weeks. And tomorrow as well, he's going to be meeting with Amazon founder and also the owner of Washington Post, Jeff Bezos. So, again, a ton of these big- name leaders flying down Mar-a-Lago to meet directly with Donald Trump.

[10:45:00]

Now, I just got off the phone with a Trump adviser about some of these meetings and they say a lot of them or introductory meetings or meetings to really just work on boosting their relations. But of course, down the line, there are going to be conversations about, you know, how Donald Trump and his policies could potentially impact or help these different leaders.

For example, we know that Apple CEO Tim Cook and Donald Trump, they met on Friday, they discussed, I'm told, the European regulators, and this is a concern of Apple's, and how they're going to be cracking down on the App Store. That's just one example of kind of broader policy that we know is kind of working its way into these -- into some of these conversations.

Now, one key thing though I think that is so important to keep in mind is just how different the tone has been between Donald Trump and these different leaders. Back in Donald Trump's first administration he had a very hostile relationship with many of these tech giants, Mark Zuckerberg, for example, was just someone that Donald Trump repeatedly was at odds with, claiming that Facebook was censoring conservatives, you know, blaming him, but other tech giants as well for what he considers was interfering in the 2020 election.

This is a much different tone, I'm told, between these leaders. They are approaching him much friendlier, and Donald Trump is really embracing it. He is loving the attention he is getting from these different people. ACOSTA: Yes.

TREENE: So, I think, you know, we have to stay and, you know, get more reporting on what is coming out of these and whether any specific policy is being discussed. But I'm told as of now, it's more introductory between a lot of these different leaders and Donald Trump.

ACOSTA: And, Alayna, is there a sense inside Trump's orbit of advisers that this is bending the knee, that these CEOs are bending the knee essentially to Donald Trump? I mean, that's how it looks to a lot of people, it looks like bending the knee?

TREENE: I think -- it does, and I do think that is how they're kind of taking this. I mean, Trump himself said this yesterday during his news conference, that, you know, back in his first term, all of these different leaders were fighting him, and now they all want to be his friend. And I can tell you, when I talk to my sources on the Trump transition team about these meetings, they argue that Donald Trump is loving this attention, that he is embracing these meetings, that anyone who really is calling him up and wanting to meet with him, particularly the CEOs of these major companies, he is very much entertaining it. He is enjoying having them to Mar-a-Lago to have these meetings.

Again, though, I think the key question is going to be what comes of these moving forward and what these relationships will look like once he is actually in office. Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. Alayna Treene, thank you very much. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:00]

ACOSTA: We are waiting to learn if today is the day Luigi Mangione is returned to New York to face murder charges and the death of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. He's been fighting extradition from Pennsylvania. But Manhattan D.A. Alvin Bragg says Mangione is thinking about giving up that fight. A court could make a waiver official later today. CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Jennifer Rodgers joins me now.

Jennifer, I mean, it sounds as though this is just a matter of timing, right? I mean, I can't imagine a scenario where he wins an extradition hearing in this case.

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR AND LECTURER, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF LAW: That's right. I mean, the extradition is just about identity, really, whether the Luigi Mangione in New York is the same Luigi Mangione in Pennsylvania. So, it doesn't take much to get them to clear it through the courts. It's just a matter of transportation, really. So, it may take a couple of weeks to physically get him here, but that's about it. ACOSTA: And how do you make -- what do you make of how this case is shaping up so far? I mean, there has been some speculation that -- and we're seeing that one of our colleagues, Karen Friedman Agnifilo, is going to be his defense attorney, that she may mount -- or he may mount an insanity defense here. What are your thoughts on that?

RODGERS: Well, you know, listen, they're in a tough bind as far as we can tell with the evidence as it seems to be stacking up. Of course, Karen, his lawyer, will take a hard look at the evidence when she gets it through discovery, but it looks pretty overwhelming right now.

So, you're then looking for alternatives, right? Perhaps a plea deal where you can get some sort of favorable sentencing recommendation from the office. Karen is well positioned to do that, given her long service there, or like you say, some sort of insanity defense. It is odd the way that Mangione was kind of dropped off the face of the Earth, away from his family, the way that he planned to kill someone he didn't even know. So, those are the sorts of things that would cause a lawyer to say, you know, maybe I should think about the insanity defense.

Now, it's hard to prove. It's a big burden. It's an affirmative defense. They have to prove it. The defense by a preponderance and you have to prove a mental disease or defect. So, it's not an easy road. But if I'm Karen, you know, again, I'm looking for alternatives to trying to say, hey, it wasn't me who did this, given what the evidence looks like right now.

ACOSTA: Yes. And what does that mean for prosecutors? Because, I mean, it looks at this point that the evidence is pretty overwhelming in terms of forensic evidence, I mean, surveillance footage, you know, the cameras like this one that we're showing at the hostel where he's on camera here and so on. I mean, there's a lot of evidence.

RODGERS: Yes, it's a prosecutor's dream case as far as the evidence, except for one thing, Jim, and that is the outpouring of derision and hatred for the victim in this crime because of what people think of the healthcare system and kind of turning Mangione into a hero.

So, if I'm a prosecutor, what I'm concerned about is not putting the evidence in and not I'm not thinking that it's -- you know, it's a solid, solid case, but I'm worried about jury nullification. So, I think they're going to be thinking hard about that.

[10:55:00]

ACOSTA: You're worried about a juror coming out of nowhere and saying, you know what, I like this guy. Maybe not voicing that during jury selection, maybe not voicing it to fellow jurors. But when it comes down to that moment of voting to convict or not, that's where this juror might just go rogue. That kind of a scenario?

RODGERS: Exactly. You never know what happens in the jury room. They can decide based on anything, and it could be that.

ACOSTA: Wow. All right. Jennifer Rogers, something we'll keep our eyes on. Thanks so much. Really appreciate it. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: All right. We have some live pictures, or almost live pictures, to show you from a few moments ago. Here's RFK Jr., Trump's pick for HHS. He's going into a meeting with Senator James Lankford. Pam, I mean, these are some very critical --

[11:00:00]