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Chaos on Capitol Hill With No Clear Plan to Fund Government; Mangione Could Face Death Penalty With New Federal Charges; Trump Says Any Shutdown is a Biden Problem to Solve After Upending Spending Deal to Fund Government. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired December 20, 2024 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. You're live in the CNN Newsroom. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

We begin up on Capitol Hill where lawmakers have only hours left to pass a spending deal before the federal government shuts down at midnight. And no one can get on the same page on what happens next. This morning, you can see this on your screen right now, President- elect Donald Trump calling on Congress to let the shutdown happen now before he takes office next month. But House Speaker Mike Johnson is holding critical meetings with GOP members at this hour trying to get an agreement passed before the deadline.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Is there going to be a different bill on the floor today?

REPORTER: Are you going to vote today?

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): Yes, we're expecting votes this morning, so you all stay tuned. We got a plan.

REPORTER: You've reached a new agreement?

JOHNSON: We'll see.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: The latest bill was shut down last night, but nearly all Democrats, but also dozens of Republicans now just days before Christmas and the start of Hanukkah. Hundreds of thousands of federal workers could soon be furloughed, while a million others will have to work without pay.

CNN Congressional Correspondent Lauren Fox is live up on Capitol Hill for us. Lauren, it is starting to get serious now. Less than 14 hours to go. What do you think? What's going to happen?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim. I am standing outside of the Democratic Caucus meeting that is set to begin in just a couple of minutes. We are still waiting on Leader Jeffries to arrive this morning.

But this is why this meeting is so critical. Right now, House Republicans are debating amongst themselves whether or not to drop Donald Trump's demand to include an increase in the debt ceiling as part of these spending negotiations.

Now, it's not clear whether Republicans would ultimately go that route. But if they do, Democrats are going to have to make a decision about whether or not they would be willing to accept something that is perhaps too different than the agreement that they locked in on Tuesday night, but still is a clean spending bill that includes perhaps some disaster aid.

We don't know exactly what Republicans would settle on, but obviously whether or not Democrats are going to back this is a huge question right now. And the reason for that is you saw last night more than 30 Republicans voting against a GOP plan to fund the government until March 14th.

The reality is when it comes to spending bills, Democrats and Republicans have to work together. That is the way that this coalition has always worked. So, if Democrats decide to dig in, that they're only accepting the Tuesday deal and nothing else, that would give us a lot of indication that we're likely headed toward a shutdown. Now, if that's the case, Democrats seem more flexible to potentially any plan that doesn't include a debt ceiling, perhaps that gives them some wiggle room.

Now, again, all of this is extremely fluid this morning, but this meeting that Democrats are having right now where they're huddling behind closed doors, it's going to be really important and key to what happens today. Jim?

ACOSTA: And, Lauren, I guess a question, I hope this doesn't throw you off. I think you should be able to handle it. The last time around, I know that this House speaker, Mike Johnson, wanted the text of the C.R. to come out to give lawmakers enough time to review it before the funding deadline. This time around, it sounds like the sausage-making is happening so fast and so furiously that there might not be that kind of a window for reading the bill. So, what's going to happen? Might we technically go into a shutdown tonight because of that?

FOX: Well, Jim, I think there's just likely not going to be time to honor the so-called 72-hour rule that Republicans typically try to honor with their members. I mean, last time, Johnson was trying to give his members some room to read this legislation, and as members read it, they didn't like it. I mean, one of the challenges of these massive end of year spending bills is that there are a lot of things in there that people love and there are a lot of things in there that people like. And the longer that legislative text hangs out there, sometimes the more defections you get.

Now, again, the deadline right now is midnight tonight. That really doesn't give Johnson the room to give members time to read this bill over 72 hours. Now, can members read a 100-page bill in a couple of hours? Probably.

ACOSTA: That's true. All right, good point. All right, Lauren Fox, thanks as always, great reporting. We appreciate it.

A lot to discuss with our next guest, Democratic Congressman Lloyd Doggett of Texas.

[10:05:01]

Congressman, good morning. Thanks for being here with us.

Do you think -- I mean, just to pick up on what Lauren and I were talking about a few moments ago, do you think we're going to be heading into a shutdown tonight given, you know, Mike Johnson's insistence that lawmakers have enough time to read the legislation? It might not happen this time around. What do you think?

REP. LLOYD DOGGETT (D-TX): Well, I think the real problem is the insistence of Elon Musk and his sidekick, Donald Trump, to interfere with the negotiations that have gone on here. You know, for weeks, we've been doing exactly what so many people have asked, and that is to seek common ground. Finally, agreement was reached. Republican and Democratic leadership in the House and Senate signed off. And minutes before we were to vote on it, Elon Musk and Donald Trump intervened with totally new demands, told Republicans if they continued to support this agreement that they would be primaried and run out of office.

And so here we are, instead of the disaster relief that so many families wanted, all Republicans have given us is a disaster.

ACOSTA: And what about this new proposal we're hearing about that would strip a suspension of the debt ceiling against Trump's wishes? I mean, that's something he wanted. If that gets pulled out, could that work?

DOGGETT: That was the demand that he made at the last minute. And I think he made it solely because of his desire to separate the debt. After all, he is the self-described king of debt and he's about to push forward a tax bill that's designed to help people like Elon Musk and fellow billionaires. And he doesn't want that associated with the trillions of dollars of new debt that it will create, causing even some Republicans this week for the first time to say, we cannot afford that kind of tax scam again.

If the debt limit change is removed from the bill, we need to look at it closely, but it's against an experience this week of having a complete agreement, ready to vote on it, and then having Republicans back down on their word. So, we really need to see the final version of this and know it's there and know that Trump has agreed to it before we can move forward.

ACOSTA: And what's your reaction to Trump calling on Congress to shut down the government now? We were just showing the truth social post a few moments ago. He is saying, well, do it while Biden is president. What do you make of that? DOGGETT: Well, it's like the ghost of shutdown past. You know, Trump had three shutdowns against his own government when he was there before. It is an indication of the chaos that lies ahead. Yes, he wants the debt limit changed now because he does not want to focus attention on the fact that he will add trillions of dollars of debt with a tax break for Elon Musk and his fellow billionaires. That's what he decided at the last minute. It was a demand he could impose on Republicans and that he could threaten them into backing this.

This really is also a question of whether Republicans will exercise any independent judgment. Are there just here as minions and followers of Donald Trump as he leads them off the debt cliff?

ACOSTA: And Congressman, I do want to ask you about this. Musk's tanking of this bipartisan spending bill that you had earlier this week has some pretty devastating impacts. The stripped down version cuts funding for medical research and the fight against pediatric cancer. Is there any way to bring that back? I mean, I can't think of a more worthy program than researching pediatric cancer.

DOGGETT: Absolutely, Jim. You see the pain and anguish on the faces of families that face a child threatened by death and disability from cancer. That was a reasonable provision we got Republicans to agree on, some funding for community health centers. And I hope that can be included in the bill. Those are the kind of programs that some want to cut in order to finance these tax cuts for those at the top.

The other big concern I have, because we have a terrible shortage of air traffic controllers in Austin, my hometown, is the impact that the shutdown could have on air traffic. With holiday traffic at its peak right now, we really faced with a shutdown that impacts these air traffic controllers. They have to go to work, but they're not being paid. Last time when that happened, some of them didn't show, added to the air traffic shortage and inconveniencing and imperiling people all over the country as they should be able to celebrate Christmas and Hanukkah and rejoin their families.

ACOSTA: And, Congressman, I did want to ask you to respond to Vice President-elect J.D. Vance. He's blaming Democrats. Let's listen to what he had to say.

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J.D. VANCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT: The Democrats just voted to shut down the government, even though we had a clean C.R., because they didn't want to give the president negotiating leverage during his first term, during the first year of his new term, and, number two, because they would rather shut down the government and fight for global censorship (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

[10:10:03]

They've asked for a shutdown and I think that's exactly what they're doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP) ACOSTA: Yes. Congressman, what's your response?

DOGGETT: Well, that's absolute nonsense. He ignores the fact that 38 Republicans voted against this proposal, one of whom, a colleague of mine from Texas, spoke forcefully against adding more debt.

I believe we need to reach agreement. We ought to support the original agreement. If we can't get that, let's try to find common ground, save the holidays for families and those who've experienced disaster. I believe Democrats want to move forward in good faith, but this is really a totally Musk-Trump created problem, and it's up to Republicans to decide how they want to move forward on that. It's in their hands.

ACOSTA: All right, Congressman Lloyd Doggett of Texas, thanks very much for your time this morning. We appreciate it.

DOGGETT: Merry Christmas.

ACOSTA: Merry Christmas to you too.

All right, just ahead, murder suspect Luigi Mangione's notebook is leading to federal charges against him. As we learned, it's possible Mangione could face the death penalty.

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[10:15:00]

ACOSTA: New this morning, the suspect in the murder of the UnitedHealthcare CEO is waking up in a federal prison cell in Brooklyn in a perp walk straight out of a Hollywood movie. An NYPD helicopter delivered Luigi Mangione on the final leg of his trip from Pennsylvania where he waived extradition. Heavily armed officers in bulletproof vests surrounded him, whipped him off to federal court, where he had new charges filed against him.

Mangione now faces four federal charges with the one count of murder carrying the possibility of the death penalty if convicted. We're also learning more about the notebook found with him and how it helped prosecutors build the federal case against him.

Let's take a closer look with CNN Senior Legal Analyst Elie Honig, a former state and federal prosecutor. Elie, what do you make of this notebook?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's incredibly powerful evidence in a couple respects, Jim. First of all, it directly ties him to the murder. It gives him a motive. It essentially all but puts him at the scene. There's plenty of other evidence, DNA, fingerprints, ballistics that do that. So, it makes clear beyond any possible doubt that he was in fact the shooter.

But more than that, Jim, that notebook provided the hook that the feds needed to come in and bring federal charges. Because the feds, and I was a federal prosecutor, you can't just charge someone with murder. You need to have some interstate element. You need to have some element of planning for some of the charges that were brought. And I think that notebook enabled the feds to say, well, he intentionally planned this out. He stalked, to use the legal term there, and he crossed state lines in order to commit this murder. So, that's devastating evidence.

ACOSTA: Yes, I mean, this is pretty interesting stuff. Four months before the killing on August 15th, an entry says, quote, the details are finally coming together, end quote. The writing also says, I'm glad in a way that I procrastinated because it allowed time to learn more about UnitedHealthcare. I mean, that's pretty methodical stuff, it sounds like.

HONIG: It is. And another thing that will do, Jim, is it will undermine any type of insanity or incompetence defense, because the argument there, if you're going to go into court and argue mental incompetence, you have to argue that the person did not even understand the nature and consequences of what they're doing.

It's not enough to show that the defendant was going through a mental health episode, was depressed or was spiraling. You have to show the person didn't even understand what they were doing. And that diary, those journal entries show that he was planning this meticulously for months, and his plan actually succeeded, including a getaway plan. So, again, very vital evidence.

ACOSTA: And who goes first? The feds or state prosecutors?

HONIG: So, it's a big question, and I think I can comment on this with perfect nonpartisan credentials, because I was both at different times. But I will say, usually if both sides are trying to go first, and you do want to go first, because it's just a cleaner case that way, usually the feds will prevail because federal courts are less overburdened, they tend to move more quickly, the feds have more resources. So, it may be that the two sides, the feds and the state, get together and come to some sort of uneasy agreement as to who will go first, but if they don't and they're racing, I would probably say the federal case is more likely.

ACOSTA: That's interesting, Elie. I mean, you look at the basic facts of the case. He shows up in Manhattan allegedly and guns down the CEO in cold blood right outside a midtown hotel. One would think that's okay. That's a state case. That's a city case.

HONIG: Yes. And the state, let's remember, they charged it first. I mean, 24 hours ago when I spoke with you, Jim, I think we were maybe just getting the news that there could be federal charges. So, I'm sure the D. A. is making the argument, hey, we investigated this case with the NYPD. There are locals. We got the arrest warrant in first in order to bring him from Pennsylvania here. And feels a little bit like my former office, the SDNY, as we are prone to do, may have big footed this one. So, I'm going to watch how they deal with each other.

ACOSTA: And he's facing two sets of charges for a single alleged crime, as you said. His attorney says this raises the constitutional question of double jeopardy. What do you make of that? HONIG: Yes, I don't think that's quite right. I mean, I understand why it feels like double jeopardy. But if you look at it technically, and the Supreme Court ruled on this 2019, five years ago, they said it actually does not violate double jeopardy. If one set of charges come from the feds, the other set comes from the states. They're what's known as separate sovereigns.

But the attorney, Karen Friedman Agnifilo, who, of course, was a contributor here, who we both know, did make a separate point that I think was good, that it is very rare to see the feds pile on a charge when the state has already done so. I don't know that that gives her a legal remedy but I think it's a fair point.

ACOSTA: All right. Elie Honig, great to see you. Thanks a lot.

HONIG: All right.

ACOSTA: All right. As you can see that clock ticking down on your screen, there are 13 hours and 40 minutes to go.

Still to come, President-elect Donald Trump's seemingly iron grip on the Republican Party may be temporarily loosening when it comes to this government shutdown that Washington is barreling toward.

[10:20:07]

That's next.

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ACOSTA: With just hours left, 14 hours left, to be specific, maybe a little less than that until the government shutdown goes into effect, Republicans remain at odds over how to fund the government after throwing negotiations into disarray. President-elect Donald Trump fired this one off earlier this morning saying this is President Biden's problem, not his, writing this morning on his true social account. If there's going to be a shutdown, quote, let it begin now.

Here with us to discuss CNN Political Commentator, Democratic Strategist Maria Cardona and Republican Strategist and former Communications Director for the RNC Doug Heye.

[10:25:07]

Maria, let me start with you first, because I want to show this flashback. Trump took credit for the shutdown that happened on his watch back in 2018. Let's watch.

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DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: I am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck, because the people of this country don't want criminals and people that have lots of problems and drugs pouring into our country. So, I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Isn't that what he's doing now? He's shutting it down.

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He absolutely is shutting this down. Make no mistake, the country was on the verge of being able to fund the government, of putting in some good things for the American people, on both sides. It was actually a bipartisan negotiation, Jim, in this incredibly divided Congress and country.

We had a deal. Democrats and Republicans had a deal. What happened? Musk comes and tweets, Trump follows up, whether that was wag the dog, who knows. And now everything has been blown up because Republicans do not have the spine to stand up for what is best for the American people, to actually govern and give the American people supposedly what they voted for, and they are proving what Democrats have been saying time and again. They have no interest and no clue on how to govern with the best interest of the American people in mind.

ACOSTA: And, Doug, J.D. Vance was up on the Hill blaming Democrats for this. Do you buy that? Trump and Elon Musk were saying yesterday, let's --

DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: to some extent, yes, but let me tell you why. It has nothing to do really with what's going on right now in the Capitol. What's happening right now in the capital is really the symptom. The ultimate problem is Congress, and this is not sexy, does not have a working appropriations process. So, the fact that we're not passing the bills that we need to that contain all of those things that have been removed over the past 24 hours. This is a systemic problem. That's why we had a shutdown in '18. That's why we had a shutdown in 2013. Congress needs to do its job. It doesn't. It kicks the can down the road. And then we get to situations like this over and over again. That's a Republican problem. It's a Democratic problem. And then you get Trump and Musk and all them, you know, tweeting and so forth.

ACOSTA: They had a deal. The deal was there. It was a done deal. They were going to do all these things.

HEYE: You only have a deal if you have the votes. And if you can't get a working appropriations process done, you put yourself in this situation where disaster happens.

CARDONA: But, Doug, they had the vote. They had the votes from both sides of the aisle. They had the votes. That's why Speaker Johnson negotiated this deal. And then what happened? Trump weighs in because Musk weighed in, and then it was blown up because Republicans bent the knee to the puppeteers.

HEYE: I know it's not sexy but if the House and the Senate and a president whether that's Biden or Trump signs in the Labor HHS Appropriations Bill and --

ACOSTA: But, I mean, we just played a video --

HEYE: We don't have these conversations. ACOSTA: We just played a video of Trump taking credit for it back in 2018. He's saying this morning, shut it down.

HEYE: Because Congress didn't do its job.

(CROSSTALKS)

CARDONA: Republicans are have control of Congress. And so you're right, Congress couldn't get it done because Republicans don't know how to govern.

ACOSTA: Yes. I mean, Trump is trying to have it both ways. I mean, let's just be frank. I mean, he's taking credit for a number of things that have happened on President Biden's watch, including a new border security plan put forward by Canada, the Israel-Hezbollah ceasefire, Bitcoin hitting record highs. I mean, there's just a selection of the things. You've heard Republicans say he's already president, Doug. So, why doesn't he take the blame for this?

HEYE: Well, because, technically, he actually isn't president yet. If I were advising Donald Trump, and full stop, I am not, I would tell him what you want from Election Day to Inauguration Day. It's the calmest waters you can possibly have. Ring the bell at the stock market, do things like that. But don't cause choppy waters because you don't need it. So, if Mike Johnson is threatened, that's bad news for Donald Trump, because it makes this water so choppy as he comes in to the White House.

And meanwhile, as we're talking about Donald Trump, I remember what John Boehner would say so often in 2013 when we had a shutdown. Republicans have one half, of one third of government and you know who we're not talking about? The guy who is president right now. We haven't seen or heard of Joe Biden. The only pictures you see of Joe Biden are at Christmas parties.

ACOSTA: But, Doug, you've been around Washington a long time and, Maria, you can weigh in on this too. I mean, we have never had a situation where you have the richest man in the world controlling something like X, a pretty powerful social media platform saying, shut the government down. And if you don't do it, we're going to primary you in two years. I mean, he is wielding tremendous influence and he's doing it while peddling fake news. He is peddling disinformation on this website.

HEYE: Yes. But what's interesting --

ACOSTA: that makes it tough for anybody to get anything done.

HEYE: Absolutely. But what we also saw last night in that vote that failed is 38 Republicans vote against Musk, vote against Donald Trump. And, you know, we talk about MAGA and House Freedom Caucus, these are O.G. tea partiers. And what they're saying is, we're not going to pass a debt ceiling.

[10:30:01]

That makes the next two years extremely interesting, certainly in the next 14 hours and two weeks as well.

CARDONA: So, again, if you can't get --