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Government Funding Passes Without Trump's Key Demand; Debt Ceiling Debate Exposes Republican Divides; Vigil For Victims Of Deadly German Christmas Market Attack; Houthis Fire Hypersonic Ballistic Missile At Tel Aviv; US Removes Long-Standing Bounty On Syrian Leader; Congress Averts Shutdown After GOP Drops Trump's Limit Demand; Several Hurt After Police Chase Ends With Crash Into Texas Mall. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired December 21, 2024 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:32]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jessica Dean in New York.

The dust is settling on Capitol Hill after a chaotic 48 hours of negotiating with lawmakers, striking a deal to avoid a government shutdown. But what did not make it in that legislation was the one thing President-elect Donald Trump had insisted on, suspending or eliminating the debt ceiling. He wanted it so that he could avoid another funding battle like this one in March. But dozens of House Republicans ultimately ignored Trump's demand.

CNN's Steve Contorno joins us from West Palm Beach with more on this.

Steve, how are Trump's allies responding today?

STEVE CONTORNO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we've seen several of them already go after some of the Republicans on Capitol Hill who wouldn't go along with Trump's plans especially Republican Chip Roy of Texas. He seems to be bearing the brunt of a lot of the MAGA blowback for what transpired on the Hill this week.

But look, Donald Trump had threatened going into the final votes to primary anyone who didn't vote to extend the debt limit in this bill to fund the government and ultimately 38 Republicans rejected the initial bill that would have extended the debt limit fight beyond 2025. But then 170 Republicans on the Hill and dozens more senators got behind what ultimately passed and was sent to Joe Biden's desk.

But we are seeing Trump's allies set the stage for Republicans to potentially take on their own, and especially anyone who stands in the way of President-elect Donald Trump. Listen to what one of Trump's top allies, Senate candidate -- former Senate candidate Kari Lake of Arizona, said today at a gathering there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARI LAKE (R), FORMER SENATE CANDIDATE: He brought down the obstructionists in Washington, D.C. Now, the bad news is we still have a few obstructionists. Have we seen that in the last week or so? And unfortunately, some of them are right here in our own party. And I hate to say that. I wish we could say all of the trouble was over with the Democrats, but we've seen how a few people with R's behind their name are trying to actually hurt we the people as we go into this next era where America first policies are going to be implemented to make our life better once again. And we need to bring down those obstructionists and help President Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CONTORNO: So a dicey start to what is supposed to be a united government starting in January, with Republicans controlling the House, the Senate and the White House.

Now I should point out those remarks by Kari Lake, those were made at a gathering of conservatives in Arizona. Trump is going to address that same conference tomorrow in what is being billed as his first rally-style speech since winning the election, Jessica.

DEAN: And Steve, is there a sense that among his allies, among people you're talking to, that this is kind of a preview of how we might see things playing out once he does get in office?

CONTORNO: Well, he's got a powerful new ally who is incredibly well- funded in Elon Musk, who has certainly set the stage to fund any primary challenge for people who don't -- who will try to stand in the way of Trump's agenda. And he has said as much already. And there are groups like Turning Point USA, which is hosting that conference that Kari Lake spoke at and Trump will speak at tomorrow, that are also willing to fight other Republicans.

So, you know, Trump himself has been relatively quiet today in the aftermath of this grenade he tossed into the middle of these negotiations to fund the government. But, you know, he has plenty of people on his side who are willing to do the dirty work for him, at least that they have threatened to. And we'll have to see what happens come January when Republicans take over the government and are forced to negotiate only with themselves.

DEAN: All right. Steve Contorno in West Palm Beach, thanks for that reporting.

This latest spending battle has some in the GOP calling out Republican leadership. That means House Speaker Mike Johnson's title. Could it be on the line when he goes up for reelection in a few weeks as House speaker?

Earlier tonight, I spoke with Congresswoman Nicole Malliotakis, Republican congresswoman from New York and assistant whip for the Republican conference, on whether she's going to be supporting him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: You have described the first draft of this spending bill that was negotiated between Democrats and Republicans as what you called a backroom boondoggle. [19:05:06]

I'm just curious, you also had a lot of, you took issue with how Speaker Johnson led the Republican conference through this. Will you be supporting Speaker Johnson when he runs in the new year?

REP. NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS (R-NY): Well, I don't necessarily think that replacing the speaker is the answer, but I do certainly have questions and would like more clarity on how our leadership intends to run the next Congress.

I was very disappointed that this backroom deal was made with a handshake without notifying the members of the conference and getting our input to make that type of bipartisan deal with Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer without our buy in, I think it's problematic. And I'm a member of the Problem Solvers Caucus who works in a bipartisan way. It's not about being bipartisan.

It's about making sure that your caucus, your conference, knows what is going on because we are duly elected representatives. We have constituencies. We are not rubber stamps. And so I was disappointed with how that had played out. And also with the lack of communication from the leadership to the membership this entire week. It was -- it's problematic.

We need to run things better and tighter next year. And I do believe that it is going to be difficult because of our slim majority.

DEAN: But you will be supporting Speaker Johnson on January 3rd?

MALLIOTAKIS: Look, I'm taking this day at a time here. I do have some questions. I think as a member, I deserve to have an opportunity to have my thoughts heard before January 3rd. But like I said, I don't necessarily think that replacing the speaker is the answer here. We had a hard enough time getting to 218 after Kevin McCarthy left, and I'm not sure that there's somebody else who can get that number.

DEAN: And I also want to ask you about the debt ceiling because obviously President-elect Trump really wanted that included and dealt with before he took office. It ultimately was not included because it just simply couldn't get the votes, including from people, and I don't have to tell you, in your own party, 38 of whom voted against that particular package. What do you -- how do you see that playing out?

MALLIOTAKIS: Well, so the debt limit issue, and I understand President Trump's point of view. I mean, this is spending that took place under the Biden administration that now we're going to have to pay a debt service on and interest. And he didn't want that to be hanging over his head when he has so many other priorities.

DEAN: I also want to ask you, as you all start to go through what your legislative priorities, we saw Elon Musk playing a huge role in this last negotiation over the last 48 hours. What do you think of the role he's playing and how much power does he have? Because he blew up a negotiated bill with the help of President-elect Trump. And he was very involved with this. MALLIOTAKIS: Look, he's obviously not elected, but he does have a

strong relationship with President Trump. And I think President Trump looks to him as somewhat of an adviser. I think the role that he is playing with DOGE and wanting to identify wasteful spending and fraud in places where we could be more efficient is a good role, and we want to work with him on that. But at the end of the day, we are the elected representatives. We have to serve our constituencies.

And so I'm not sure, you know, how members are going to view him going forward. But I think that we need to do our job and not be so influenced by these outside forces.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: We're joined now by Maura Gillespie, who served as a press adviser to former House speaker John Boehner.

Maura, good to have you here with us. And you understand how this job works. You know the pressure that comes with it. Watching what's played out over this last, these last few days, what advice would you give to Speaker Johnson?

MAURA GILLESPIE, BLUESTACK STRATEGIES FOUNDER AND PRINCIPAL: He has to remember that he is speaker of the whole House, and that responsibility is to make sure that the institution itself gets the job done. The people, you know, elected him as speaker through by electing the House Republicans to have the majority, it's a slim majority. We're still in a divided government. And so he has to get the job done.

Congress has the power of the purse. We have a separation of powers for a reason. And so I don't think that having these outside influences that don't have any, you know, they won't be felt the effects of a government shutdown. That's not helpful. And so he has to stay the course of what is -- what he can do to get the bill across the finish line. And really any majority, the power they have, especially as speaker, is their ability to get to 18 for a vote.

DEAN: And you mentioned these outside forces, I have to wonder, for John Boehner, if he had an Elon Musk type that was firing off messages on X and kind of dive bombing into these negotiations, what does that do to your leadership, to your power, to how effective you can be?

[19:10:01]

GILLESPIE: I don't know that John Boehner would have been tolerating that kind of nonsense. He has a, you know, a lot of times he would say this doesn't pass the smell test. And so somebody who doesn't really understand how Congress works, then getting to dictate how Congress works would not really be something that the former speaker would have, not only not appreciated, but would have really tolerated. Again, he always would say that his job was to be speaker of the whole House.

And, you know, in his situation, you know, he -- when President Obama wanted to increase the debt ceiling more or less in a blank check manner, you know, Boehner made it very clear that for any dollar spent, there had to be a dollar of cut. And that became the Boehner rule. And so it's very interesting that people are going against Speaker Johnson saying how dare he work across the aisle with Democrats when you now have the former or the soon to be President Trump saying that, you know, he wants to abolish and get rid of the debt ceiling, and he'll work with Democrats to make sure that's a possibility. He'll champion that effort with them.

So, you know, there's hypocrisy here on the Republican Party. They need to figure out what's most important to them moving forward.

DEAN: How do you think -- just to stay on Boehner for a second. How do you think he's watching all of this, like, unfold? Because he sat in that seat. He's held that gavel.

GILLESPIE: I am sure he is pleased, pleased not to be part of it right now. But again, you know, he had a different situation and he really held firm in that. And I think there was also this understanding, this underlying faith in leadership, and that there would be an adult in the room that would make sure that we wouldn't default on our debt and make sure that we wouldn't, you know, freefall economically.

And so there was that underlying trust, and there was a relationship between working -- they disagreed and there were many fallouts throughout the process. But he and President Obama realized they had to work together to get this done.

DEAN: And, look, we're about to have another speaker's election coming up on January 3rd. I lived through all of the votes with Kevin McCarthy when I was covering the Hill. We all watched it. It took vote after vote after vote. And then Mike Johnson ultimately down the road assumed that position and was voted in kind of as a surprise to, I think, a lot of people.

How do you see that battle playing out? Do you think it will be difficult for him to maintain that power, or do you think that with the backing -- he did get backing from Trump and a nice message from Musk after this was all over? Do you think he's in safe territory there?

GILLESPIE: I think President Trump realizes he needs to have the full chambers working in his favor so it doesn't serve him to go against Speaker Johnson because, again, as you know, the former congresswoman or the congresswoman just mentioned earlier, you know, it was so hard to get Johnson at 218 alone. You know, who else could do that? But Republicans cost themselves a lot of political capital this week by having this chaos of 48 hours, by having this kind of devolvement of putting us on the brink of a government shutdown because, you know, it takes away the momentum going into what is going to be a Republican- led House, Senate and the White House.

They could be accomplishing a lot. But by having these infightings that should really be done in private, and instead it's being done publicly by people who don't understand how Capitol Hill works and needs to work in order for it to function properly, which I know it seems almost farfetched these days for Capitol Hill to work properly, but in in light of the fact that we are about to switch governments, it's important that they get in line behind Johnson, at least for what Congress needs to accomplish.

DEAN: All right. Maura Gillespie, thanks so much for your insight into this. We appreciate it.

GILLESPIE: Thanks for having me.

DEAN: Up next, a vigil is held in Germany for victims following the deadly Christmas market attack. We're going to have a report from the scene. Also ahead, the impact on your holiday packages and lattes as thousands of workers at Starbucks and also at Amazon strike in several cities.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:18:25]

DEAN: Tonight the German city of Magdeburg holding a vigil for the victims of a deadly Christmas market attack. Five people were killed when a car plowed through the crowd on Friday night, and one of those victims was a 9-year-old. More than 200 others were hurt, including 40 with critical injuries. Officials say the suspect is a 50-year-old doctor from Saudi Arabia, who has lived in Germany since 2006 and has a history of making anti-Islam statements.

CNN's Matthew Chance reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Outside the cathedral in Magdeburg, Germans are grieving and paying their respects. The deadly attack on a Christmas market here on Friday night has left many bereft.

CORINNA PAGELS, MAGDEBURG RESIDENT (through translator): Well, I've seen a lot of misery. Many people who were searching, many tears, bewilderment and extreme states of shock.

CHANCE: This is the moment a speeding vehicle plowed into the bustling crowd, killing at least five people, according to German officials, and injuring more than 200. A carnage but from an unexpected threat.

Well, this is exactly the kind of attack on a packed Christmas market that Germany has suffered in the past and feared could happen again. But what's so unexpected is the profile of the alleged attacker. Not an Islamist, but anti-Islam. Not a recent immigrant to Germany, but settled here for nearly 20 years, part of the community, a doctor in a nearby clinic. Very few, if any, saw that coming.

[19:20:08]

(Voice-over): Now dramatic video has emerged of the suspect's arrest at the scene of the market attack. A U.S. activist group has now identified him as Taleb al-Abdulmohsen, a 50-year-old originally from Saudi Arabia who once described himself as history's most aggressive critic of Islam, particularly opposed to the Saudi regime.

On social media, Abdulmohsen has repeatedly expressed support for the German far-right AFD Party, also claiming Germany wants to Islamize Europe. And now this horrific attack allegedly committed by a self- confessed Islamophobe fueling Germany's growing anti-immigration mood.

Our politicians are responsible for this, one local, Barbara, told me. I think there should be a cleanup of people who do these things, she says.

Now it's time to close our borders, says this man, Tom.

Germany's pain and grief is already giving way to anger.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHANCE (on-camera): Well, it's now emerged that Saudi Arabia repeatedly warned Germany about the suspect they now have in custody, saying he'd become radicalized. These warnings going back, according to two CNN sources, to 2007. The German authorities, though according to the Saudi sources, ignored those warnings. This, as the German government says it will do everything it can to get to the bottom of this tragedy.

Matthew Chance, CNN, Magdeburg, Eastern Germany.

DEAN: Thank you, Matthew.

Up next here, the U.S. responds with airstrikes against the Houthis in Yemen following a missile attack overnight on Israel. CNN national security analyst David Sanger weighs in on the latest fallout.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:26:27]

DEAN: New tonight the U.S. launching airstrikes against the Houthis in Yemen. CENTCOM announcing a missile storage facility and a command center were both hit in those strikes. This follows a strike on Tel Aviv overnight. The Houthis launching a hypersonic ballistic missile from Yemen in what they say was a response to Israel's war in Gaza. We know at least a dozen people were injured in that strike.

And CNN's Jeremy Diamond has more now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: We are at the scene of this Houthi missile strike in southern Tel Aviv. And you can see this is where that missile actually made impact. That is the impact crater that's now been covered in by dirt in the middle of this park, with a children's playground in the middle. The buildings all around this area damaged by the force of this blast, windows that have been blown out by the percussive blast.

And this happened in the middle of the night. At a 3:45 in the morning, you can see more of that damage right up here. These windows that have been shattered, the frames of them hanging by a thread now. At least 16 people suffered minor injuries as a result of this blast caused by those glass fragments that exploded. 14 others suffered minor injuries, rushing to shelters.

And while the Houthis say that they struck successfully a military target in Tel Aviv, as you can see, this is not a military target. This is a residential area in southern Tel Aviv.

Now there are also questions about why the Israeli military failed to intercept this missile. You can see in video from overnight at least two interceptor missiles going up into the sky, attempting to intercept that Houthi missile, but failing obviously. And this is the result instead. The Israeli military also just a few days ago struck the Houthis inside of Yemen with a series of airstrikes. We expect that that tit-for-tat will continue in the days and weeks ahead.

Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Tel Aviv.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: Jeremy, thank you. And joining us now is CNN political and national security analyst David Sanger. He's also the author of "New Cold Wars: China's rise, Russia's invasion and America's Struggle to Defend the West."

David, thanks so much for being here with us. I first just want to ask you if you expect the Houthis to respond to these U.S. strikes?

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, they may well and, you know, the main way they have been responding has been with -- have been with attacks on ships that they can reach. But, you know, what I think is most interesting about this is at this point, the Houthis are really the only Iranian proxy group with the capacity to strike Israel right now.

Hezbollah is obviously in the midst of a ceasefire agreement, but also has lost about 80 percent of its missile capability. It's got some short-range stuff. Hamas is not really in a position to be firing, particularly at this point from Gaza. So that makes it a little bit easier for the United States and Israel to focus on these Houthi weapons storage. And you've seen them doing that. You know, last weekend, Central Command was shooting at ISIL targets inside Syria to make sure they didn't take advantage of the chaos there. Today, it's the Houthis.

DEAN: And the fact that this hypersonic ballistic missile was fired from Yemen able to get through Israel's Iron Dome, was that surprising to you?

SANGER: A little bit because it's a single missile. And as you heard from Jeremy, there were clearly two anti-missile shots taken at it. It's a little bit harder with a long range missile like this, and particularly one moving at hypersonic speeds which it suggests this one probably was than going after a short range missile.

[19:30:18]

But I'm sure there's going to be a pretty careful investigation of this, because at this point, the bigger threat to Israel is actually these longer range ballistic missiles than the shorter range stuff, since Hamas and Hezbollah are pretty well defanged, at least for the moment.

DEAN: I want to stay in the region, but turn to Syria for a moment, because the US sent this delegation to meet with the country's new leadership. And then we heard from them that they'd also gotten rid of this $10 million bounty that was on the de facto leader, Ahmad al- Sharaa. What do you make of all of that?

SANGER: Well, it's pretty fascinating. I mean, what do you do when a longtime dictator like Assad has been ousted by a somebody on your terrorist list and who's capture you've been seeking with a $10 million reward?

Well, it turns out what you do is you get rid of the $10 million reward, and you negotiate with them because the best shot that the US and the rest of the region has right now is trying to make this HTS, this former al-Qaeda linked group live up to its promises.

And so far, they have said all the right things about being inclusive, about not taking revenge and so forth. The only question is, do they perform on that? We've heard that before from other terror groups or former terror groups that realize they were trying to get aid from the West?

DEAN: And also, what does it mean for Iran and Russia and then trying to keep their foothold in Syria.

SANGER: So this is what to watch for, the Russians, of course have two major bases in Syria, a naval base and an air base. They desperately want to hold on to both.

I can expect that you will see the Russians make probably a cash offer to be able to hold on to those bases, at least in some limited way.

And I think the US is going to have to decide whether it's going to get into the bidding, because there's a strong US interest in making sure the Russians do not have access to that port in the Mediterranean and cannot refuel their airplanes from Syria.

So, the effort to woo a terror group three weeks ago, we couldn't even imagine speaking to, I suspect is just now heating up. On top of that, the group that's there, the American group that's there, is trying to find Austin Tice, the American journalist, and they're going to need some help from HTS to do that.

DEAN: Right, and maybe hopefully have an opening to find. Austin Tice. David Sanger, thank you so much.

We will be right back. SANGER: Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:37:55]

DEAN: President-elect Donald Trump's last minute demands to Congress, including suspending the debt limit, disrupted a bipartisan compromise and nearly blew up the funding bill and shut down the government.

Ultimately, that demand was ignored, and the bill, which did not include that provision, was passed. I'd like to bring in CNN economics and political commentator Catherine Rampell. Catherine, it's great to have you here with us. There is an op ed from your paper, "The Washington Post," talking about all of this. And essentially making the case that it maybe isn't a bad idea to eliminate this debt limit from being this political weapon.

CATHERINE RAMPELL, CNN ECONOMICS AND POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Absolutely, some of us have been arguing this for years. The debt limit serves absolutely no purpose except to be taken hostage every few years, and potentially cause a global financial meltdown, which it probably would if we defaulted on our debt and violated the Constitution's commitment to the full faith and credit of the United States.

I know that it sounds like the debt limit enforces some sort of discipline on how much debt we take on, but it actually doesn't. It's backward looking. The debt limit is just about paying off the bills that congress has already committed to. Basically, it's already agreed to spend a bunch of money on Medicare, on Defense, on everything else that the government does. And the debt limit is just about basically paying off the credit card bill.

So, Congress could easily make different changes. Well, I say easily, but it seems easily enough to me, make different changes on its spending decisions or its tax decisions. And that's what needs to happen if we want fiscal discipline.

The debt limit really is again -- it's only function right now is to potentially force a crisis every once in a while.

DEAN: Yes, it's worth noting. And that's what I was going to say, is that just for people to know, because it's not always, you know, you don't go, you kind of set your debt limit and you do think it keeps people -- it gives us economic discipline, whatever.

But to your point, it is like allowing them to pay off the credit card bill. The charges have already been made. They just need to be able to make the payment for that credit card bill. And someone was explaining to me the other day, we are one, if not all countries do this.

[19:40:22]

RAMPELL: Yes, most do not, in fact, because it's unnecessary. It's extraneous, that again, the decision is made to do the spending when Congress passes the bill, the appropriations bill, the spending bill to commit to whatever its agreed to spend money on. And this is this, like extraneous step in the process that ironically, initially was created to make it easier for the government to issue debt. It was about like allowing the Treasury Department to have a little more freedom on what kinds of debt instruments. It's very boring.

But a long time ago, what kinds of debt instruments it could issue in order to, you know, basically pay off the bills that Congress had racked up and instead it's kind of morphed into this useless thing that clearly doesn't enforce any fiscal discipline. Obviously, if it did, then we wouldn't see deficits and debt going up and up and up and up every year.

Instead, it really only is this like unnecessary step in the process that's just like threatening to not pay off our bills, which, again, has these cascading consequences for the United States. The part of the reason that we are able to borrow at such low rates, our government, part of the reason why the dollar is the global reserve currency is that everybody trusts in the United States to pay off its bills.

So in the long run, making these kinds of threats actually hurts our debt position going on because it makes it a little more expensive for us to borrow. And in the near term, if in fact, Congress got close to the brink, as it has in the past, including earlier, was it this year or last year? It all runs together. It feels like were going through this every few months.

DEAN: We've done it. So yes, every year or so we go through this.

RAMPELL: I know, it feels that way when they come close to the brink, there's also this fear that like if we default on our debt, every other financial instrument in the world is essentially benchmarked off of the assumption that we will pay our bills. We are the safest of safe -- the Treasury is the safest of safe assets in the world, and everything else looks a little bit less safe by consequence.

And, you know, things go haywire and you have these domino effects, where, again, that's why I'm saying, like, it can really disrupt financial markets in a way that's not totally obvious to taxpayers, but politicians should know about by now because, you know, annoying people like me have tried to explain it and urge them to stop fooling around with this.

DEAN: Right, and before we let you go, I also want to ask you, Elon Musk, really inserting himself into this latest round of negotiations on Capitol Hill. He's really been on phone calls with foreign leaders. He's really inserted himself into a lot of things. And certainly there's the whole DOGE of it all. And trying to cut spending and all of that sort of thing that he and Vivek Ramaswamy have committed to. What do you make of the role he's going to try to play and how effective he might be able to be?

RAMPELL: Well, as you can probably tell, I actually do think debts and deficit and government waste are a major problem in the United States and honestly, I think it would be amazing if our lawmakers and the executive branch got together and decided to, like, actually figure out how to make more responsible decisions with spending and with taxes, for that matter, but nothing that Elon Musk has done so far gives me confidence that that is what he plans to do.

In the case of this bill, for example. He really didn't seem to understand what the initial deal was, was tweeting out lots of misinformation about what was in this stopgap spending bill, didn't bother to learn what was in it. It doesn't give me confidence that he will bother to learn what actual problems there are in terms of administrative waste within the existing system.

And, I think he just, you know, likes to cause a lot of drama. He's not willing to do the homework. In this particular case, he threw a grenade in this deal at the 11th hour caused a lot of problems. If we had had a government shutdown, that actually would have been very expensive for taxpayers. Not to mention, you know, some of these other things that you lay out about his inserting himself in the early affairs of the president-elect that make me think he's not -- either he's not interested in working in service of the public welfare or is too lazy to figure out what that would even look like.

[19:45:15]

DEAN: All right, Catherine Rampell, good to see you. Thanks so much for stopping by. We appreciate it.

RAMPELL: Thank you.

DEAN: We're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:50:03]

DEAN: We have breaking news now, as Texas authorities are investigating after several people were injured when a police chase ended at a mall. It's happening in Killeen between Austin and Dallas. And CNN's Camila Bernal is joining us now. Camila, what are you learning about this?

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Jess, it appears that the suspect here is dead, and it appears he was shot by a DPS officer. This is according to our affiliate, KXXV, they spoke to the DPS Sergeant Brian Washko and what he told our affiliate is that this appears to have been a chase that started in Belton, Texas and then ended 19 miles later at the mall there in Killeen.

You see those images on your screen. Authorities are obviously there, and the sergeant also telling our affiliate that it was a trooper who shot and killed the suspect.

That sergeant also saying that he believes there are multiple people injured. He did not specify or we do not have details on whether -- or how severe these injuries are or how many people were actually injured. We do know that police are obviously in that area, and they are taking care of the situation and asking people to stay out of the mall, but they're not calling it an active shooter. They specifically said the situation is essentially under control.

Again, we do not know how many people were injured or the spokesperson actually also saying that they do not know how many people or if any people were killed. So really, this is a developing situation as we get more information from authorities.

But again, it appears that this was a chase that started 19 miles away from the mall. That suspect drove into the mall and that's where that chase ended, according to authorities. And so, again, were waiting to hear exactly what happened to the people that were there and how people at the mall are doing. But we do know that the mall is in a lockdown situation. And again, this is developing, so we are waiting to hear exactly what else happened.

DEAN: All right, Camila Bernal with the latest of what we know. Thank you so much. I want to bring in Charles Ramsey and Juliette Kayyem to talk a little bit more.

Charles, I want to start first with you because, anytime we have a chase. This one went on for 19 miles. You certainly don't want it to end with it slamming into a very public, crowded place like a mall.

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No, you're right, I mean, but you never know where a chase is going to end. I don't know the reason why the suspect was being chased to begin with, but a 19- mile chase is a pretty long chase.

Unfortunately, it ended at the mall, and there were some people injured. Even though the reports initially said there was an active shooter, apparently that's not the case, but a shot was fired. At least one shot was fired by a trooper, so it's understandable that someone would hear a shot and just assume in today's climate that there was an active shooter in the mall. But fortunately it wasn't, but we don't know how many people were hurt.

DEAN: Right, and that's it, it's about the climate that were in right now. Juliette, I talked to you just a few hours ago about what happened in Germany on Friday with this car driving into a Christmas market and thankfully, that is not the situation were dealing with here.

But it does -- It does make you realize that this is the world we live in, where anytime you hear about a car driving into a populated area, you go to the worst.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes. I mean, and I think rightfully so at this stage, there's a lot of different pieces at play now. There's of course, what's happening abroad and the concerns about, attacks there. There's our own vulnerabilities here. There's a high -- both, you know, sort of political and ideological discourse that can get animated. And then there's access to weapons.

You know, I was -- both the chief and I were on just a few days ago about another shooting at a school.

And so, you just -- you have this fear out there that that is the worst. And what happens then is that, of course, like, the mall has to go down -- go on lockdown. And rightfully so, they can always ratchet down, but everyone has to be in a ratcheted up posture because you don't know what's going to unfold in the moments after something like this happens.

DEAN: All right, Charles Ramsey and Juliette Kayyem, we appreciate you guys jumping on with us on this Saturday night. Thank you to both of you.

And thank you for joining me this evening. I'm Jessica Dean.

I'm going to see you again tomorrow night starting at five Eastern right here.

"How it Really Happened," the JonBenet Ramsey investigation is up next. Have a great night, everyone.

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